Fighter abilities replacement listing

[Azry]

<DIV>Anyone have a listing of the fighter abilities that are replaced and at what level? Would help people alot deciding whether to  drop 5gp on a adeptIII for a skill that is obsolete in 3 levels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For instance..</DIV> <DIV>Kick(4)------------->Knee Break(1<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />------->???</DIV> <DIV>Wild Swing(1)---->Forced Swing(16)---->???</DIV> <DIV>Shout--------------->Rallying Cry------------>???</DIV> <DIV>Taunt---------------->Anger------------------->???</DIV> <DIV>Guardians Call--------------------------------->???</DIV> <DIV>Call of Command------------------------------>???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and so on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks</DIV>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Azryal wrote:<BR> <DIV>Anyone have a listing of the fighter abilities that are replaced and at what level? Would help people alot deciding whether to  drop 5gp on a adeptIII for a skill that is obsolete in 3 levels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For instance..</DIV> <DIV>Kick(4)------------->Knee Break(1<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />------->???</DIV> <DIV>Wild Swing(1)---->Forced Swing(16)---->???</DIV> <DIV>Shout--------------->Rallying Cry------------>???</DIV> <DIV>Taunt---------------->Anger------------------->???</DIV> <DIV>Guardians Call--------------------------------->???</DIV> <DIV>Call of Command------------------------------>???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and so on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> I'm confused the abilities are not replaced.   I have and use taunt/anger and wild swing/forced swing.  They are different abilities.  Never got Knee Break at 18.  Am I missing out on something?

[Azry]

<DIV>Umm yes, abilities on the same timer are upgrades. Notice when anger is greyed out, so is taunt. They are de facto different abiities but essentially you dont use both...well, I dont use both. Why use kick for 28 when knee break does 50??</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, you are missing something. Glad I posted this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Raahl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Azryal wrote:<BR> <DIV>Umm yes, abilities on the same timer are upgrades. Notice when anger is greyed out, so is taunt. They are de facto different abiities but essentially you dont use both...well, I dont use both. Why use kick for 28 when knee break does 50??</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, you are missing something. Glad I posted this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>I did notice that.  Though it's a really short delay.  Does that mean that a Taunt followed by an Anger (5-10 seconds later), is not better than the Anger alone?  Do they stack?  If not, then I need to change my tactics and take Taunt off my hot bar.</P> <P>I'm also glad you posted this.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Drolio]

I think True Strike gets upgraded later, but I'm still going to get it to adept if I get a chance.

[Ryan]

Just to provide a little clarification, Shout gets replaced by Shouting Cry not Rallying Cry. If I recall RC is a group buff, although it does tend to generate a decent amount of aggro.<p>Message Edited by RyanSN on <span class=date_text>12-07-2004</span> <span class=time_text>08:48 AM</span>

[Ainm]

I use taunt most of the time, and anger when I have to. Taunt costs less power and does just as good a job.I use shout most of the time, and the other one only once for the debuff effect.Just because old abilties are on the same timer does not necessarily mean they are useless.

[Azry]

<DIV>Yes I mixed up our cries LOL (I think we all spam 'cry' so much its become the guardian mantra). Sure different strokes for different folks, I think I'll use Bury instead of Assault, Knee Break instead of kick and the shout upgrade whatever the hell that is named. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>But thats besides the point, what Im asking is whether there is an upgrade to Call of Comm and GC that is on the same timer and what level that comes at.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>PS-Ainmer from reading your "guardians are overpowered" thread Im not sure how much you know about the game. For one, you have <U>no clue</U> how effective taunt vs. anger is because the numbers arent transparent. Making a statement that both are equally effective because when you try it, it seems to work is non sequitor. Please do the guardian community a favor and reroll a zerker! </EM></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Azryal on <SPAN class=date_text>12-07-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:43 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Azryal on <span class=date_text>12-07-2004</span> <span class=time_text>09:50 AM</span>

[Drolio]

Dig In seems to replace Hunker Down at level 30.6, but I don't know if they're in same timer. Still level 26 <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[TyrusGoblinCleaver]

<DIV>Forced Swing and Wild Swing can stack when not used in HO's. Both have different descriptions and are great to use back to back. I don't see why I'd replace Wild with Forced when I can use both.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Great thread btw........this should be informative...:smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Thi]

Soooo, back to the original post: Does anyone have a list of Guardian Arts that become available post lvl 20? I'm wondering when I'll get these upgrades so I'm not blowing money on 'outdated' Arts. Mostly intersted in when I get a new 'Shout' (AE taunt) and Taunting Blow.Thanks in advance

[Grumpy_Warrior_01]

<DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=2109" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=2109</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This has Berserker and Guardian arts listed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Grumpy_Warrior_01 on <span class=date_text>12-10-2004</span> <span class=time_text>08:53 AM</span>

[Mig]

If you mouse over the skills in your hot bar, you'll notice they con to you. Grey skills are below your level, which means what your fighting is going to be highly resistant to them. A grey skill on an orange mob is not going to be as effective if that skill is say white or yellow. Not all our skills get replacements, but most of them have very similar effects. My guidline is to check the power, cast, and recast times, and also the HO symbol. If get a new skill that has similar cast, effect, recast time and HO symbol to a skill that is grey to me I will delete that grey skill from my hot bar and use the new one instead. If you don't do this you'll find that you'll need two hotbars just for your attacks alone by the time you reach 25+.Also it's critical to update your skills no matter what lvl they are. I got ruin at 25.6 or so and I noticed that while at apprentice one, it did something pathetic like 6 damage. When I upgraded to apprentice three it did some 50-60 damage and DoTed.<p>Message Edited by Migyb on <span class=date_text>12-10-2004</span> <span class=time_text>02:03 PM</span>

[ThramFalc]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Drolio wrote:<BR>Dig In seems to replace Hunker Down at level 30.6, but I don't know if they're in same timer. Still level 26 <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> </DIV>This is sad because I assume dig in will be useless like Hunker Down was.  I hit my defense cap with just call of command.  Hunker down only lowers offense.

[ThramFalc]

<DIV>Maim is an upgrade to Wound.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ruin is an upgrade to Mangle.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shatter is an upgrade to Forced Swing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Battle Cry is an upgrade to Rallying Cry.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think Crush is supposed to upgrade Slam but they are on seperate timers atm.  This was the case with Ruin and Mangle til they changed it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Call of Command and Guardians Call are upgrades to every single other offense/defense buff in the game.  All other buffs are useless because these two will make you hit your caps. No more Soldiers Stance or Hunker Down.   Don't let other characters waste power buffing your slashing, piercing, crushing, defense or parry.</DIV>

[Azry]

<DIV>can someone tell me what upgrading CoC/GC to adept level does exactly??</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My duration timer appears to be the same!</DIV>

[Moontayle]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Azryal wrote:<BR> <DIV>can someone tell me what upgrading CoC/GC to adept level does exactly??</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My duration timer appears to be the same!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Duration timers never change. However, what does change is the effect. App 1 of Battle Tactics, for instance, only buffed about ~75 HPs, where as App 3 buffs about ~110. Adept 1 will likely be ~150 or so but that's just a guess. The bottom line is that you want to upgrade your abilities asap. If you can, try and find out what comes next and the prepare for the good ones by buying the App 3 or Adept 1 (or 3 if it's available) so that when you get it you're already set.

[ThramFalc]

<DIV>on CoC and GC upgrading to adept may not do anything.  I hit the caps with adept 1 (caps weren't in when i upgraded and I did notice a boost then) so when I saw a Master 1 CoC for sale for 1pp I just chuckled.  Its worth no more than the adept version really.. and maybe not more than app1.</DIV>

[Kyd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ainmer wrote:<BR>I use taunt most of the time, and anger when I have to. Taunt costs less power and does just as good a job.<BR><BR>I use shout most of the time, and the other one only once for the debuff effect.<BR><BR>Just because old abilties are on the same timer does not necessarily mean they are useless.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> I have to disagree. Anger by far is better than taunt. I believe the range is longer and it creates more hate. Why use a level 5 nuke when you can use a level 15? If you are using your lower level taunts you are really just wasting power. Just to prove the point that higher level skills should be used over lower I will use someones Kick vs. Knee break example. 20 Damage vs. 50damage, in the long run if you use both five times, thats a bit of damage lost if you use kick instead of knee break. I see no reason to believe the same doesn't go for taunts and other abilities.

[Drolio]

<DIV>Every single time I've used Hunker Down, I've pretty much stopped taking damage for like 10 seconds, dunno why it seems useless to ya.</DIV>

[Ainm]

I have to disagree. Anger by far is better than taunt. I believe the range is longer and it creates more hate. Why use a level 5 nuke when you can use a level 15? If you are using your lower level taunts you are really just wasting power. Just to prove the point that higher level skills should be used over lower I will use someones Kick vs. Knee break example. 20 Damage vs. 50damage, in the long run if you use both five times, thats a bit of damage lost if you use kick instead of knee break. I see no reason to believe the same doesn't go for taunts and other abilities.If I don't lose aggro using regular taunt, why should I expend the extra 16 points of power using anger? The point of Anger is that it has increased range over taunt. Nowhere does it say it provides increased hate generation.But, to each his own. Enjoy spending 25 power per taunt while keeping aggro, while I will enjoy spending 9 per taunt while keeping aggro.

[ThramFalc]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Drolio wrote:<BR> <DIV>Every single time I've used Hunker Down, I've pretty much stopped taking damage for like 10 seconds, dunno why it seems useless to ya.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Look at the description of the art and then look at your skills when you have CoC up and you cast Hunker Down.  All that changes is a drop in offense.  Hunker Down does not add any AC or defense or parrying or anything over what you already have.  Your experiences are either circumstantial, pre CoC, or perhaps Hunker Down has some secret hidden effect in which case it should be bugged.</P> <P>Late in fights I frequently stop taking damage anyways... mobs stop doing specials after a while.  If Hunker Down is still doing something I'll need to see it in hard stats to believe it.</P>

[Mig]

there are monsters that will debuff you as well, so these skills are still useful

[Rhaam]

<DIV><EM><FONT color=#ff0000>"Look at the description of the art and then look at your skills when you have CoC up and you cast Hunker Down.  All that changes is a drop in offense.  Hunker Down does not add any AC or defense or parrying or anything over what you already have."</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is just off the top of my head, so I very well could be wrong but doesn't the in game description of hunker down say something about increasing mitigation for a short time? If not, dunno where I got that idea lol.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Rhaaman on <span class=date_text>12-12-2004</span> <span class=time_text>03:53 PM</span>

[macsux]

<DIV>I have hunker down in adept 1 and love it. Lasts only 30 seconds, but gives some time to take a breath in the middle of the fight, cuz the damage I take almost pretty much stops when I cast it. Too bad recast time is too long - longer then most battles. When tanking, it's one of my favs, and healers do notice when I cast it. One thing you have to watch out for is that you cant use arts while you're in hunker down mode, so make sure you build up enough agro not to lose it during those 30 secs. Otherwise, have your mouse on cancel ability button in case you lose agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a side note, It would be good to start a site somewhere to see how different upgrades take effect. For example, I want to see how much gain is between app 1 battle tactics and adept 1. I'm working on a site like that, but maybe a while before I finish. Busy busy lately...</DIV>