Mods delete

[God_of_Avalon]

<P>Mods, please delete this thread.  There is getting to be way too many threads on the same subject.</P><p>Message Edited by God_of_Avalon on <span class=date_text>12-06-2004</span> <span class=time_text>09:19 PM</span>

[Hokono]

ive noticed that i cannot taunt off zerkers (24 guardian here) but then again i dont really care as far as im concerned i do better tanking when im guarding him anyways. on the flip side, why would you group with a berserker? if your group needs 2 tanks then it sucks. my group line includes a cleric, shaman/druid, enchanter, scout(any type), wizard/summoner + me guardian. if you suck so badly that your group needs 2 tanks then you will complain that zerkers do tons more taunting than we do (which is true without a shadow of a doubt) but you can avoid this completely by never grouping with another warrior/crusader class (brawlers can sometimes fit dps spot in group). im a far better tank than any zerker ive been with because i have more hp/ac (not much but enough to look pretty) and i block a ton of hits as well as evade, parry, and riposte. i've seen monks of higher lvl get hit more often than i do, and just fflat out die when they are too since their AC is so bad that they should be the ones screaming nerf not us.if our only gripe is that we cannot taunt off zerkers, then we cant complain much at all as for any other situation we can hold aggro just fine without getting anyone else killed. and if your still a pansy and cannot keep all the aggro, that is what enchanters are for!!!

[Kinni]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hokonoso wrote:<BR>ive noticed that i cannot taunt off zerkers (24 guardian here) but then again i dont really care as far as im concerned i do better tanking when im guarding him anyways. on the flip side, why would you group with a berserker? if your group needs 2 tanks then it sucks. my group line includes a cleric, shaman/druid, enchanter, scout(any type), wizard/summoner + me guardian. if you suck so badly that your group needs 2 tanks then you will complain that zerkers do tons more taunting than we do (which is true without a shadow of a doubt) but you can avoid this completely by never grouping with another warrior/crusader class (brawlers can sometimes fit dps spot in group). im a far better tank than any zerker ive been with because i have more hp/ac (not much but enough to look pretty) and i block a ton of hits as well as evade, parry, and riposte. i've seen monks of higher lvl get hit more often than i do, and just fflat out die when they are too since their AC is so bad that they should be the ones screaming nerf not us.<BR><BR>if our only gripe is that we cannot taunt off zerkers, then we cant complain much at all as for any other situation we can hold aggro just fine without getting anyone else killed. and if your still a pansy and cannot keep all the aggro, that is what enchanters are for!!!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> </DIV>2 words.... pick-up group.  And BTW, we're all tired of hearing the argument "I can hold agro just fine."

[RigorreEQ]

<DIV>Here's one you probably haven't heard in a while ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"You must be <EM>special</EM> because this stupid topic didn't deserve it's own special, stupid thread just so you could see your name in the Author column on yet another version of the exact same thing you just posted on in 7 other threads exactly like this one."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I realize you are attempting to be the squeeky wheel ...because squeeky wheels get the grease.  Just remember that not ALL squeeky wheels get greased ...some get ignored ...and some get removed.  You should be careful not to become either of those latter ones.  </DIV>

[EQJun]

<DIV>I'll support you in that the classes aren't balanced on the aggro front, but the Guardian notion that a new guardian only armor suit with more ac than heavy/vanguard is needed is complete lunacy.  The argument that this is "Not EQLive" is very relevent when Guardians romp around suggesting that they should be entitled to armor no other class is capabale of wearing.  The argument is also crap when guardians suggest that berserkers be limited to chain only gear, dimishing their value ot ziltch.  You slam ideas that oppose you, call them moronic, yet you never once consider why they were said or if they were possibly retalitory for some idiotic claim from your side, not you, but from someone on your side of the argument.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Beyond that, I support all else you mentioned, and fully suport an aggro increase to the guardian abilities.  I think it's needed to balance the game.  You have to realize that this is a two way street, and a lot of rediculous ideas from both sides fly back and forth, and create this mess.  Believe me, when I'm berserking with a guardian in group, I want him to have aggro.  Getting hit in berserk mode is not fun at all.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In regards to insane guardian asking for elite gear and chain wearing zerkers, i'll dig it up for you.</DIV>

[Belce]

<DIV>What happens when the zerker cooperates to keep agro on the group's designated MT, instead of playing whack a mole on their hotbar?</DIV>

[CortoMuer]

<DIV>If the Zerker, or any other class, is playing whack-a-mole on their keyboard, then Guardians should still be able to keep aggro.  This may mean that we have to play that same game of whack-a-mole to keep it up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think that's the point, and apparently Guardians are unable to keep aggro when Zerkers are doing full dmg.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is also the consideration that Zerkers are going to need to slow down some.  Taunting in EQ1 would not necessarily keep aggro when a wizard or necro manaburns.  The wiz and necro in that game had to learn to control aggro and maybe this is the situation with Zerkers now.</DIV>

[God_of_Avalon]

<DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV><p>Message Edited by God_of_Avalon on <span class=date_text>12-06-2004</span> <span class=time_text>09:31 PM</span>

[Vonce7]

<DIV>Increase Guardian Taunt abilities to match Zerkers? Umm how bout no, how bout they beef of guardian until it can overpower hate from a zerker easily.  I picked Guardian class to be the TANK not have to fight to be MT with a DPS.</DIV>

[Want]

<DIV><FONT size=3> <DIV>"Increase Guardian Taunt abilities to match Zerkers? Umm how bout no, how bout they beef of guardian until it can overpower hate from a zerker easily.  I picked Guardian class to be the TANK not have to fight to be MT with a DPS."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Vonce,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Berserkers are a MT and arnt a dps class. This game has two main tanks. A guardian with defensive shielding abilities and a zerker with offensive attack abilities. Somehow people got the idea that Guardians were a carry over of the warrior class from EQL. This isnt the case. Both are MTs and do the job well however to see a group truely shine have the guardian shield the zerker and its one amazing sight. </DIV></FONT></DIV>

[Belce]

<DIV>You got half of it right, some classes can generate agro better than others and when they play poorly they get agro instead of where it is wanted.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am sorry, but I am one that thinks that a group should work together, that members of that group need to make decisions and the right ones benefit the group and its plan.  The agro goes to where it is best dealt with, if you have agro and are not that, then you are messing up.  Just because it is easy for a class to get agro, does not mean it is best.   The fact that it is not easy to get agro always to a guardian, with their many skills to reduce the effect of it, does not mean that the easier path is better, nor does it mean we are broken.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regardless of what you think about zerker agro ability, which class can better deal with that agro with their skills?  The zerker with lowered defense while zerk getting that agro, or the guardian with the buffed defense sucking it up? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Over the long time I have played a tank in these games, I have learned many roles in which we can fill, MT is the least and easy of them.  regardless of that and my role in the group, if you have agro and its intended elsewhere, you have messed up, I don't care if not getting agro means you only attack and nothing else or even do nothing.  Putting agro where it is intended is a group job, not guardian, not zerker and not any other class, a group job.   If your group can't execute, they can't execute. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have posted several times that when you are the MT in a group and someone in that group takes agro consistently from you that the first thing you should do is try to correct them and if that fails to kick them from your group.  If you did that, then you too could say, yeah I tank and have no problem too.  Not all zerkers are stupid. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Only cowards delete their posts.  Those with courage admit they were wrong.</DIV>