+Defemse changed yet again, need input:

[GenesisForgot]

<b>Things have changed since last patch regarding +Defense skills:</b>Here's my skill levels:Soldier Stance - Adept 1Call of Command - App 3Hunker Down - App3 3<b>Ok here were my numbers at level 26.4:</b>Base Defense: 132Defense + racial bonus: 137 (+5)Soldier Stance: 155 (+1<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Call of Command: 156 (+1)Hunker Down: 161 (+5)<b>Here are my numbers at 28.2:</b>Base Defense: 141+ Racial bonus: 146 (+5)Soldier Stance: 152 (+6)Call of Command: 153 (+1)Hunker Down: 154 (+1)What is up with that? There is now zero reason for me to cast my +defense abilities. Cast time / power / concentration all for +8 total defense is NOT worth it. I had a bard in my group and that made all my skills totally worthless.So now I have 3 buffs, 4 guard spells, and 1 Rescue to add to the trash pile.<p>Message Edited by GenesisForgoten on <span class=date_text>12-05-2004</span> <span class=time_text>02:38 PM</span>

[Ainm]

If raw Defense was the only thing those abilties added, you might have a point.

[GenesisForgot]

yeah 1 of them adds to parry. The main effect of all 3 is raises defense. now they don't raise it for anything worthwhile. Your point was?

[GenesisForgot]

I'm just [Removed for Content] that we complain that our 3 +defense skills don't stack and instead of fixing it they stealth nerf the WHOLE bunch of them. The only one slightly worth casting is Soldier Stance. I'm not going to sacrifice my ability to taunt for 1 more defense and I'm not going to use power/time for 1 defense on CoC (I'm the only person who needs it anyways, not the group). And they still don't stack. yay.

[Ellind]

<DIV>I think Ain's point was... he likes his guardian nothing's broken even if it is.  /sigh  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyways Genesis, it's just part of the ongoing problem as we slide further into the abyss.  /chuckle  Hopefully we get some dev love soon, and just give us some defense boosting abilities so we can actually do something unique.</DIV>

[GenesisForgot]

Its sort of fun to level up and yet become worse at defending... sigh

[Ainm]

<blockquote><hr>GenesisForgoten wrote:<b>Things have changed since last patch regarding +Defense skills:</b>Here's my skill levels:Soldier Stance - Adept 1Call of Command - App 3Hunker Down - App3 3<b>Ok here were my numbers at level 26.4:</b>Base Defense: 132Defense + racial bonus: 137 (+5)Soldier Stance: 155 (+1<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Call of Command: 156 (+1)Hunker Down: 161 (+5)<b>Here are my numbers at 28.2:</b>Base Defense: 141+ Racial bonus: 146 (+5)Soldier Stance: 152 (+6)Call of Command: 153 (+1)Hunker Down: 154 (+1)What is up with that? There is now zero reason for me to cast my +defense abilities. Cast time / power / concentration all for +8 total defense is NOT worth it. I had a bard in my group and that made all my skills totally worthless.So now I have 3 buffs, 4 guard spells, and 1 Rescue to add to the trash pile.<p>Message Edited by GenesisForgoten on <span class=date_text>12-05-2004</span> <span class=time_text>02:38 PM</span><hr></blockquote>My numbers at 26.7 - Call of Command Adept I, Guardian's Call App III, Soldier's Stance Adept I:Base Defense: 133Base Parry: 133Base AC: 1552Soldier's Stance:Defense: 139 (+6)Parry: 138 (+5)AC: 1557 (+5)Call of Command:Defense: 140 (+1)Parry: 138 (0)AC: 1558 (+1)Guardian's Call:Defense: 140 (0)Parry: 140 (+2)AC: 1558 (+1)Hunker Down:Defense: 141 (+1)Parry: 140 (0)AC: 1559 (+1)Now without Soldier's Stance:Base Defense: 133Base Parry: 133Base AC: 1552Call of CommandDefense: 140 (+7)Parry: 133 (0)AC: 1557 (+5)Guardian's CallDefense: 140 (0)Parry: 140 (+7)AC: 1558 (+1)Hunker DownDefense: 141 (+1)Parry: 140 (0)AC: 1559 (+1)So what's the answer? Just use GC and CoC. We got Soldier's Stance and Hunker Down when we were Warriors, and it makes sense that they become obsolete over time. Why would you use Soldier's Stance and [Removed for Content] your offense when you don't have to? As an aside, I've never seen Rescue fail, so I don't know what you are talking about there.

[GenesisForgot]

How does that change the fact that in the last 2 days we got nerfed without any notice or anything?

[Ainm]

Well, it really depends on your definition of "nerf."Since the Dec. 3rd patch, I am soloing better than I ever have been, largely due to the fact that mobs are missing a ton more at a 3 level difference.I posted some stuff in the Combat forum about how I think Guardians are overpowered soloers, simply because we can continually kill low blue^^ group mobs with no risk of dying. I typically end these fights at 80% HP and 40% power. However, when I do one of these fights without CoC, GC and BT, they are much, much closer. The impact of the current Guardian defense buffs make a significant difference in my testing.So whether it's +8 or +20 to our defensive skill, they are just relative numbers. The numbers mean very little. They could multiply all the numbers by 100 and I'm sure someone would say WOW GC GIVES 800 PARRY NOW!!!11! The reality is nothing would have changed, just the numbers.So if +8 defense and parry makes a significant difference, then that is good. If the difference was negligible, I'd be inclined to agree with you. But honestly, they seem to make as much or more of a difference than they ever did.

[Ainm]

Also, always remember:Ours goes to 11.