Guardian woes, the taunting issue

[LumpyD]

<DIV>OK guys, general notes. I do not play a Guardian, I play a Berserker, level 29.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is no issue with Guardians atm, it is WITH Berserkers Bloodlust. THAT is your problem with us pulling aggro. I will NOT use the spell in a group anymore that has a MT besides me. I am a mana SPONGE compared to a Guardian, you guys tank better, period. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The problem with Bloodlust is it makes us proc BERSERK every SINGLE time we hit with a weapon, not every time a group member is hit by the mob (as the spell states). Therefor, using duals is a problem. If I am attacking twice every 1.2 seconds, then berserk I am hitting maybe every 1 second. So every 1 second I am "buffing" myself 2 times. Buffing 2 times a second generates a LOT OF HATE. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have bugged Bloodlust, as have some other Berserkers. Hopefully they will fix it, but not nerf it into oblivion like they did with Blood Rage.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So stop crying nerf on us. Stop asking for us to be put in chain, etc etc etc. None of those are good suggestions, and you guys don't need your very own armor line. All that would do is create a huge imbalance in tanks. You already get superior mitigation as it is. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are having problems holding aggro off of a berserker, tell the idiot to turn bloodlust off so your group doesn't die. Bloodlust is the problem, not our DPS, not your DPS, it is Bloodlust. I have tested this over and over, and IT IS BLOODLUST NOT YOUR CLASS. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Viscous, 29 Berserker, Oasis</DIV>

[Ellind]

<DIV>While I agree that this is A issue, it's not the only issue.  Let's say bloodlust causes little aggro... how does this make our class in any way a benefit to play?  Zerks still have:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Same AC</DIV> <DIV>Same Defense</DIV> <DIV>Same access to Gear</DIV> <DIV>Same taunts</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Soooo... if bloodlust gets fixed, it just means, we can tank doing the same things you would do, but yet you still dish out a *lot* more dps?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The secondary problem lies in our abilities... we *need* something that we can do to boost our defense or ac temporarily.  Something that makes sacrificing our offense worth it.  Our current art list does not do this.</DIV>

[Enis]

Well so do paladins and shadowknights, but perhaps our defensive skills will increase more, as well as better defensive abilities?Besides, the poster did mention that it takes more mana to keep him alive, so there has to be some difference in there.

[Khal]

<DIV>Dori, from what I see on Eq2 players, you are only level 20.  At level 20 they are the same exact class.  Post 25-30 its a differant game.  I don't know if you played beta or not and reached those levels then, but live you only have been a guardian for 1 level.  </DIV>

[Ellind]

<DIV>First off, beta player here... second, I've also watched this debate and was on the *other* side of the fence until the level 30's and up started posting that at their levels it's the exact same issue.  <BR><BR>(not to mention it's not hard to examine our art list and see that there are no ac, hp or defensive huge abilities that we get for ourselves to buff our defense like zerkers get to buff their offense.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ainm]

<blockquote><hr>Ellindar wrote:<DIV>First off, beta player here... second, I've also watched this debate and was on the *other* side of the fence until the level 30's and up started posting that at their levels it's the exact same issue. <BR><BR>(not to mention it's not hard to examine our art list and see that there are no ac, hp or defensive huge abilities that we get for ourselves to buff our defense like zerkers get to buff their offense.)</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>Why do you want there to be only -one- preferred tank for every encounter? That's what happened to EQLive, and it was much worse for warriors there than you might think. Pigeonholed into one role that only they could fill, it was a very boring class that was absolutely necessary for every fight for a long time.If you make Guardians leaps and bounds ahead of other classes in their ability to mitigate damage, then those classes will be the only classes to tank anything in the game. You do not want this role, trust me. Guardian protection abilities give us something useful to do in addition to being able to tank. I have no issue with Berserkers being able to tank as we as we do and have greater dps, as they could never guard someone the way we do.

[Ellind]

<DIV>My God.. am I not speaking any english here?  I don't want guardians to be the only preferred tanks.  Don't want zerkers to be that either.  How is giving guardians defensive buffs like zerkers get offensive buffs, making us the preferred?  It's exactly the opposite of what they chose to take.  Isn't that what we're about!?!?!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Keep us mirrored, each of us taunt just as well, and the only differences being where they get that offensive buff ability, instead of giving us some never used ability that doesn't work, give us that defensive buff ability... being the mirror of zerker.  This is hardly an insane request.</DIV>

[Ainm]

<blockquote><hr>Ellindar wrote:<DIV>My God.. am I not speaking any english here? I don't want guardians to be the only preferred tanks. Don't want zerkers to be that either. How is giving guardians defensive buffs like zerkers get offensive buffs, making us the preferred? It's exactly the opposite of what they chose to take. Isn't that what we're about!?!?!</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Keep us mirrored, each of us taunt just as well, and the only differences being where they get that offensive buff ability, instead of giving us some never used ability that doesn't work, give us that defensive buff ability... being the mirror of zerker. This is hardly an insane request.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Well, last I checked, we had Offensive and Defensive buffs: Guardian's Call, Call of Command, Battle Cry, etc., etc.Defensive abilities -do- work.Besides, we don't have to be mirrored, we just have to be useful and enjoyable to play. You keep talking about how much better berserkers are, but I've yet to group with people who say "man, wish we had a berserker" or "let the berserker in group MT." It just doesn't happen. It could be that you simply have decided to adopt the belief that Berserkers are far and away more valuable, therefore you think everyone believes this.Guardians are fine.

[Ellind]

<DIV>Well, we can agree to completely disagree then.  Well, cause we do.  And since you're just completely fine, you don't have to worry about these threads.</DIV>

[Ainm]

Okay, I just looked at your profile.You play a level 20 Guardian. You have mostly low con armor and use the quest two hander. You don't even have two bracelets. How can you think you have any ground to stand on in regards between the difference between Berserkers and Guardians?Can you just quit with these ridiculous misinforming posts and play for a while? At level 20 you are in no way going to have a real idea of what the differences between a Guardian or a Berserker is, particularly with your gear level.

[Ellind]

<DIV>OMG... it's called beta you idiot.  On top of that, we've even had level 30's and up come post on the subject of NOT using their guardian skills.  BAH... I'm done with you, you're content with your inferior character, so have fun and /ignore.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT - and for the record, I was smart enough not to buy any armor, and wait to get all the quest armor and drops at 20 loser.  And in that way keep all my cash.  Just recently out levelled the very nice shield I had so will be now upgrading that and my one handed weapon.  Since you seem to care about me so much, thought I'd englighten you.  Now anytime you'd like to stop talking to me, I'm done talking to you.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Ellindar on <span class=date_text>12-05-2004</span> <span class=time_text>02:08 PM</span>

[Ainm]

Well that's good to hear. Perhaps 10 levels from now your perspective will change. Or perhaps not. Either way, it would be nice to see real data posted here and not anecdotes that it the argument of the day.