Who is the Main Tank?

[Belce]

<DIV>Its one of the first things you hear when in a group, "who is the main tank?"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Basically its a decision as to who will have and try to have agro during any fight, the person you can assist and not be wrong in doing so.  Its an important group job and there are some classes that do it better than others.  In this game, its a fighter class in general as opposed to a mage, scout or priest that can do it best.  Fighters are the ones that get the damage avoidance, the damage reduction skills or stuff for the job.   Fighters are the ones that can take licking and still keep kicking.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am sure I have no disagrements yet. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The best class for controlling agro >and < being a focus of agro is the guardian, bar none.  This doesn't mean that another of the fighter classes can generate more agro than us, it means that when a gaurdian is in the group, the best thing for the group is to have agro on the guardian and not on another fighter class.  A guardian can take damage done better than any other class of fighter out there.  It was what we were intended to do and do.  We were never intended to generate more agro than any other fighter class, we do well, but not more when they push their skills.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As agro is a group job and not you or me job, the fact that some classes can generate agro faster is not important.  It is actually a good thing in a group.  All things being equal, if your group is 4 scouts, a caster and a healer you will play differently than if you have a different group.  If your group has a guardian, a zerker, a paladin, a healer and 2 casters, where do you want agro?  The guardian, since that player will suffer less than the other 2 fighters for being the center of attention and not because either the paladin or zerker can't generate less agro.  They do play a role that is important in this situation.  The healer has to heal alot and something jumps on them, then the zerker bloodlust's on the mob attacking the healer, the paladin could suck agro from a caster that got jumped.  The idea is to minimize the cost of the encounter so that a new encounter can be undertaken and that is why when people post that zerkers 'tank better' they are only refering to the fact they can generate agro more than they can.  It does not mean that the group's best interests are served by having the guardian take agro and the zerker support. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The fact that you as a guardian are grouped with a zerker and can not get agro, it does not mean you are broken, it means the zerker is playing poorly.  Our skills in getting agro, keeping it and dealing well with it are dependent on our group members allowing us to do so.  If the zerker in my group opens with bloodlust, I ain't even going to try and get agro, waste of time and power imo.   Maybe make sure I have protection up on the healer and when ithat fights over, explain, just because you have skills doesn't mean you must use them and the zerker getting agro is poor for our party with me there.  Bloodlust  gets agro, but it costs mana to keep hitpoints up after that guardians don't have to worry about.  </DIV>

[DenverJay]

<DIV>Couldn't agree more.  Good observation and makes a lot of sense.  Clearly it's a waste of skills to have a zerker tank and a guardian protect him.  Not to mention it's going to cost more healing power in the long run.  Guardians get agro well, keep agro well and mitigate damage extremely well.  It's what we do.  Zerkers just need to learn to try not to draw agro.  Simple as that.  And as we all get higher and higher level and Guardians get more and more skills designed to aid them in getting agro and absorbing damage, the differences between zerkers and guardians will become very clear and much more defined.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mack</DIV> <DIV>22 Guardian</DIV> <DIV>Permafrost</DIV>

[TheBlackWi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DenverJay wrote:<BR> <DIV>Couldn't agree more.  Good observation and makes a lot of sense.  Clearly it's a waste of skills to have a zerker tank and a guardian protect him.  Not to mention it's going to cost more healing power in the long run.  Guardians get agro well, keep agro well and mitigate damage extremely well.  It's what we do. <FONT color=#ffff00> Zerkers just need to learn to try not to draw agro</FONT>.  Simple as that.  And as we all get higher and higher level and Guardians get more and more skills designed to aid them in getting agro and absorbing damage, the differences between zerkers and guardians will become very clear and much more defined.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mack</DIV> <DIV>22 Guardian</DIV> <DIV>Permafrost</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm just trolling your forums and this caught my eye. I may be misunderstanding something, but don't zerkers actually need to have agro to start their higher dmg abilities? </P> <P>I think my advice to guardians would be to not group with zerkers, because they are gunning for your job...</P> <P>I think you should group with bruisers/monks b/c we love your mitigation and don't mind playing main assist. Personally, I find being a main assist very rewarding. I get to block hits intended for my tank, and keep an eye on the healers and casters, all the while pummeling the living hell out of our enemies, and not once having to worry about my health or active defenses <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P><BR> </P>

[Tristor]

<DIV>Im thinking you guys need to read the name of your class, its guardian. There is a reason berserkers get more aggro, thats because the guardian is supposed to guard and absorb the damage while the zerker tanks. Common sense</DIV>

[Drax]

<DIV>As an SK it's kinda strange grouped with my Guardian friend. We are both excellent tanks solo. We both have about the same HP's and about the same AC. I do have to play more carefully, as I can generate agro extremely fast as an SK. We control agro very well (fortunately, we can get rid of it equally as well - so I have no problem when he tanks).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When he tanks, I can buff him, protect him with AC, transfer my AC to him, and if the need be - support tank with Intervene. I can turn him into a MACHINE with my SK spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oddly, he can do the exact same for me and have me tank and turn me into an absolute MACHINE.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We really can't decide who should tank, we both basically do the same thing tank/defending wise. =P Kinda amusing really. Either way, the two of us in a party - regardless of whos defending and whos protecting - is a good thing to have.. when we remember to keep the proper spells up =P</DIV>

[Nuvi]

<DIV>dont agree,the tank should be the guy with the highest ac/hp,when u say that berserkers will be more of a mana sink in the long run i can say same thing about guardian not holding aggro aswell as zerkers which causes more group members taking dmg from time 2 time,and those group members usually got lower defence,therefor taking more mana,each class has its + and -</DIV> <DIV>ur guarding skills works great with a zerker tanking,i never saw ither of us as a main tank for groups class,both are good,so the 1 with the best ac/hp should be MA.</DIV>

[Armeng]

<blockquote><hr>Tristor70 wrote:<DIV>Im thinking you guys need to read the name of your class, its guardian. There is a reason berserkers get more aggro, thats because the guardian is supposed to guard and absorb the damage while the zerker tanks. Common sense</div><hr></blockquote>So So wrong!

[DenverJay]

<DIV>That's fine, if zerkers want to be main tank so bad then let them.  But they'll do it without my protection.  They'll do it on their own.  Because no one has proven that a zerker being protected by a guardian is a better combo than a guardian taking the damage themselves.  No one.  And very soon the group will see that a guardian ON HIS OWN, without any help from anyone else, mitigates damage much better than a zerker.  Can a guardian HELP a zerker tank better, MAYBE.  The verdict is still out on that one, as I'm not really sure just how much our protection line actually protects someone.  There is no hard data on any of that yet and there may never be.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All I know is what I hear from the cleric and druid I group with all the time.  That when my guardian is main tank they have to heal a lot less than when the SK we group with all the time is tanking.  Now, I'm not bashing SK's at all.  I'm just saying that my guardian takes damage better than the SK.  Now, SK's aren't zerkers, but I think they probably tank about the same given the same level and gear.  Now when the SK is offtanking an add, do I protect him?  Absolutely.  Do I do it on a regular basis and have him main tank for the group?  HECK NO!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The fact is that I have always, from day one and even back into beta, grouped with an SK.  Have there been a few times when he's pulled agro off me?  Yes probably less than 10.  And those times were when I was slacking off.  If a guardian is on his toes, a zerker should never draw agro.  Does bloodlust generate a lot of hate?  Yes.  Which is a good thing because if we get an add during the fight I expect a zerker or sk or whatever to offtank that untill either the mob I'm on is dead or I'm able to taunt it off them.  But looking at the guardian skill list, I see that we get a BUTTLOAD of taunt/defensive abilities from 20 to 50.  At higher levels I speculate it won't be that way at all.  And zerkers ,hopefully, won't be able to draw agro off the guardian unless they're slacking off.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mack</DIV> <DIV>22 Guardian</DIV> <DIV>Permafrost</DIV>