Taunt abilities have been made more effective.

[Lord_Oni]

<DIV>in the patch notes 12/03.</DIV>

[Rie]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lord_Onion wrote:<BR> <DIV>in the patch notes 12/03.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Yay! Now maybe even the unskilled will learn the effectiveness of Guardians.

[ArgosyAxeGrind]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rielz wrote:<BR><BR> Yay! Now maybe even the unskilled will learn the effectiveness of Guardians.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>No kidding, I had not problems before the patch, I can only imagine how much easier it will be now (I can't speak for those that are 25+).</DIV>

[Benderla]

ive only had a problem taunting one time in the past week.  This update was really not needed - I like the challange.  Now keeping aggro will be a joke.

[EQ2Shil]

<DIV>Its nothing to do with skill, prior to this patch any group in the 20-30 range would of been better off with a defensive setup Berserker as the tank than a Guardian. Anyway, the patch notes dont state how much the skills were adjusted by anyway, it only needs to be enough to allow a Guardian to maintain agro without getting Berserkers to hold back when they were assisting the Guardian on the same target. In fact it doesnt even state which taunt skills have been upped, IMO only the single taunt ones needed a little bit of a tweak because the group taunt and hate from buffs was enough to hold the mobs in the encounter that werent the primary target.</DIV>

[Fable_E]

<DIV>Well I can speak for the 25+ crowd in saying thank you devs for listening and testing the issue.  Im sure its still fair and not a huge upgrade.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can't wait to try it out tommorrow.</DIV>

[Rie]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> EQ2Shilak wrote:<BR> <DIV>Its nothing to do with skill, prior to this patch any group in the 20-30 range would of been better off with a defensive setup Berserker as the tank than a Guardian. Anyway, the patch notes dont state how much the skills were adjusted by anyway, it only needs to be enough to allow a Guardian to maintain agro without getting Berserkers to hold back when they were assisting the Guardian on the same target. In fact it doesnt even state which taunt skills have been upped, IMO only the single taunt ones needed a little bit of a tweak because the group taunt and hate from buffs was enough to hold the mobs in the encounter that werent the primary target.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Not the thread to get into it, but at level 26 I can out tank a guildie berserker wearing the same gear (aside from the shield), so I disagree with others in that a Zerker is a better tank when built defensively. A Zerker should learn how to control his argo generation just like a Cleric or Wizard has to.

[Reol]

<DIV>I think people are still getting the classes confused, I have a lvl 20 shadow knight and a lvl 18 warrior, now I had a misconception as to the role of a shadowknight, hoping to be main tank in a group, now I can tank but im not a main tank, but I have other abilities that are of us to the group that set me apart from the guardians and zerkers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as warriors are concerned, I think people have to stop looking at guardians as the only tank of choice...both zerker and guardian are WARRIORS that means your both built from the same stuff, your both meant to run into battle head first and stand on the frontline. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The difference comes in how we tank in any tank role. One tank " Berserker" is more a damage dealer with lots of aggro gathering to focus on the tank, but very little group defensive spells or skills to help protect the group from taking damage. The other tank " Guardian" while not a damage dealing class is very much a protector of the group hence the name guardian, while you might not damage nor take aggro as well as a Berserker you are by far the better overall group protector, when both are in a group unless the Guardian is of higher lvl the Berserker should tank and the guardian assist him, by doing damage and keeping the group protected. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However that is not to say that if only one or the other are the group that they both can tank very well.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Reolas on <span class=date_text>12-03-2004</span> <span class=time_text>11:15 AM</span>

[Lord_Oni]

<DIV>"Yay! Now maybe even the unskilled will learn the effectiveness of Guardians."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ya because button mashing takes sooo much skill.  There is very little skill involved in the MMORPG genre that I've come across and I've played almost all of them.  It's all time based and common sense.</DIV>

[Li]

It is too early to say if taunting will be easier or not now at level 20+. The taunt increase could just be to balance out with the fact that damage and heal is higher (or at least supposed to be) starting at level 20 with the patch. If it taunt abilities weren't changed it would be harder to hold aggro than previously due to that.

[Rie]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lord_Onion wrote:<BR> <DIV>"Yay! Now maybe even the unskilled will learn the effectiveness of Guardians."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ya because button mashing takes sooo much skill.  There is very little skill involved in the MMORPG genre that I've come across and I've played almost all of them.  It's all time based and common sense.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> You sir, have either never been killed by someone elses stupidity/lack of play skill, or are one that others shake their heads at...

[Xter]

<DIV>Not sure this upgrade was nessasary, I've never had a problem at all keeping agro over any other class.  I guess I get to play with my uber offence skills now... LOL!  Thanks for the free upgrade Sony! But next time... lets work on the "fun" spell =P</DIV>

[Warwizz]

<DIV>I used to never have a problem keeping aggro.  After this TWEAK, I can't keep aggro to save anyones life.  Once I have lost it, I can't get it back.  Spamming up to 28 taunts in a row to regain aggro isn't my idea of "Improving."  I played a Guardian in beta, I play one now, I think I know the class pretty well.  Suddenly, I can't get aggro off a group member period.  I have to start using sentinel (Never used it before because I never lost aggro) to save lives.  I am thoroughly not impressed and wrote numerous bug reports.  I tested this with a group and even when they stopped attacking the mob would not face me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It am about to pass out face first into my keyboard, so I hope this is corherant.  My point is that I just don't think taunt was made effective.  I would much prefer a DOT style taunt over this.  </DIV>

[Obsiddy]

<DIV>Strangeness abounds.  I lost aggro yesterday while I had hold the line up. I did my standard anger pull, followed by an HO using shouting cry as the taunt for sky cleave.  Then popped hold the line and 2 more specials, about 4 seconds later I lost aggro of the mob to a beserker and  I could not get it back.  I spam taunted, wounded, slam'd, buffed, and it would not return.  He kept it until he died (allay and sentinal kept him alive for a good while, but he was 3 lvls lower and had horrible ac, so theres only so much you can do).  First time thats ever happened to me.  Anyone else having this problem?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks.</DIV>

[Kint]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks the "improvement" to taunt actually made it harder to keep aggro now. I used to be able to start a fight with Anger, Shouting Cry and Taunting Blow in succession and then throw in a taunt every now and then during the fight and I would never lose aggro, now I do the same things and it doesn't matter. I add in more taunts and still can't regain aggro. It looks like I'm going to have to change my tactics now to properly help my groups.

[Nuvi]

<DIV>the patch was needed,specialy for guardians and SKs,im a zerker my self and with bloodlust i didnt need that,but guardians and SKs have had some problems with taunt level 25+,at least in some of the grps ive been in,taunt doesnt generate nuff hate,or didnt,this change was a good thing and many high level guardians have compalind about thier taunt problem on my server,so.... this is a good thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Nuvi]

<DIV>and if u keep loosing aggro to a berserker tell him 2 stop using bloodlust,i cant use it in group even if the other tank is 4-5 levels above me,can only use it when im MA,it generates ALOT of aggro,so tell him 2 stop using it if u got problems.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Obsiddy]

<DIV>Thats the thing, I've never had a problem loosing aggro to Bloodlust before, as long as the zerker waited until I finished my starting combo and taunts to use it.  Yesterday was the first time I've ever had the problem of loosing aggro when the zerker followed the "Rules of don't pull aggro off of me or your up *&^% creek"  Thats why I was wondering, did they maybe increase the hate of bloodlust as well as taunts when they did it?  Just an odd problem I had and wanted to see if it was something anyone else noticed, or if it was just a fluke.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ellind]

<DIV>Anyone else get the feeling that bloodlust somehow got put under the 'taunt' catagory at SOE?  Maybe by mistake?  Strange that they would raise the 'taunt' hate and bloodlust seems to go up too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>hrmmmm</DIV>

[Avadale]

<DIV>Ill add my 2 coppers here. Before the "improved" taunt patch, I rarely, as a level 23 guardian, lost aggro. Once I did an AOE taunt, and set up with Hold the line, I hardly EVER lost aggro. Now, I lose it much more often, and as someone suggested, once I lose it, its MUCH harder to get back. And what a pain it is to lose aggro while rooted with Hold the line and 4 or 5 range taunts wont get it back - so you have to click off HTL and reposition yourself. Everyone's aggro generation has been increased it seems like, and hence, Guardian's (and other fighters) taunt is effectively reduced. *sighs*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Warwizz]

<DIV>Last night, I was grouped with this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Paladin - Not taunting except under emergencies (even then HE couldn't get aggro due to this "ODD" taunt problem)</DIV> <DIV>Wanderer - Using assist and doing much of the healing.  Put thorns on me and kept me buffed.</DIV> <DIV>Templer - He was healing/buffing and melee'ing.  He was only getting reposted (which they seem to have increased mob reposte as well)</DIV> <DIV>Ranger - Behind the mob doing Ranger things.</DIV> <DIV>Wizard - Nuking and nuking, and nuking....</DIV> <DIV>Guardian - (ME) Pulled with ANGER, followed up with SHOUTING CRY (group or not), then TAUNTING BLOW, BURY, WOUND, CONCUSSION, and TAUNT.  Then ALL GROUP BUFFS....BAM...LOST AGGRO....SPAM ALL TAUNTS TILL MOB IS DEAD usually around 28 or so taunts at avg cost. 20 per cast with 600'ish power.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This was just about every pull as sometimes I would get lucky.  Though, with HTL up and shouting cry used at every refresh, I noticed some of the group mobs I wasn't attacking directly would turn on the healers.  Despite using bury, shouting cry, and HTL.  I feel that the aggro machine is off kilter somewhere.  I grouped with one berserker and he was getting aggro later in the fight.  I would think that by that time I would have enough hate to keep the mobs attention.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gone now is the leisurely taunting, using his attacks to do damage Guardian.  Now I am a Taunt DOT, all I do is taunt taunt taunt.....but the fact the Paladin was complaining of the same issue means this isn't just OUR problem.  This is everyone with taunt's problem.</DIV>

[GenesisForgot]

Soo, they are actually worse now? LOL... logging on I guess..

[Laoch69]

<DIV>Not sure about everyone else, but Nektulous forest seems to be the worst area for holding aggro.  Either that or because of the patch things just got more messed up for getting/maintaining aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bloodlust does in fact draw way too much aggro, they need to fix that.  I group with berserkers (2 of them) on a regular basis.  If they use bloodlust, forget it, no aggro for me that fight <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>