How do you tank, a constructive post

[Mig]

For those of you who feel your doing fine with your guardian go ahead and post your tactics. I usually don't have any problems tanking at all, and my pull goes like this:I'm usually with in a group with 2 mages, 2 priests, and a scoutand for me the order of combat usually goes like this:1. Before the pull, I make sure I have the following up: soldiers stance , call of the guardian(call to arms), battle tactics, and toughness if it's castable. 2. I go up to my target: Use shout, then use anger, then use taunting blow, shield bash, and slam. I immediatly use rallying cry after that. 3. By this time we have started our HO, which the scout starts, and I use shout to advance. When the wheel pops, I use all my attack abilites such as mangle, wound etc, then finish off the wheel with a taunt or another buff (depending on what's needed for the wheel).Repeat untill dead. Usually we can get 3 HO's off in the fight, more if the monster is pretty tough. 90% of those HO's involve me taunting or buffing. I rarely lose agro unless someone does something silly, and then I use sentinel and hold fast(stand fast? Hold firm) to protect them and usually that's enough to get agro back alone. I might have to taunt one more time to retain agro. Anyone doing something similar?

[GenesisForgot]

I don't bother with self buffs but I always have Soldier Stance on at start of battle.Pull with Anger and then Shout on run back to group. When I reach group I use Hold the Line, Taunting Challenge, Taunting Blow.If we don't have an Enchanter and we are facing multiple mobs, I'll use Bury now, followed by wound, ruin, mangle, slam, true strike.Next I use Rallying Cry, Call of Command, Guardian's Call, Toughness, Battle Tactics.Next I'll use Anger / Shout followed by Hunker Down.When I am out of Hunker I'll use Shout / Anger and continue tanking. I de-activate Hold the Line when the monster is close to dying so it refreshes soon after fight.No problems with this.

[Dreg]

<DIV>As a 29 guard i can tell you that holding aggro is alot easyer in the lower levels, then it is once your above 25. once u get pass lv 25,  usign anger and shout isnt enougf , and diff encounters require you to use diff kinds of aggro managment, first off iv drop using a sheild and use DW now, 1.2 sec 1hs weapons, this alone is very nice aggro, i dont use soldiers stance eather as it drops offence, and with good grp u dont need it, you want to hold aggro over anything else, i persnaly love havign a chanter in group as my only mage, 1 healer and rest dps, with chanter and breeze there is no down time, dont even have to mess with HO's and can kill non stop all ngiht long and never lose aggro, also why i dropped sheild AC is pretty much broken anyway on mob special's it seems, and it hard to hold aggro. anyway for single encounters using anger and shouting cry will do on inc, and of course using DW,  then i plow into my specials,  ruin, main, bury, slam, ect, on multi mob encounters im tactics are slighty diff, i pull hte same but after my first wave of taunts, i wil lstart doing grp buffs, this will build aggro on hte intire encounter , and let chanter mez with ease, after buffs are done i toss anther shouting cry and plow into my dps moves untill shoutcry is back up,  and i keep doingthat dps shoutign cry till intire encounter is dead, i never lose aggro on any mob, te only issue iv have now iszerkers usign bloodlustthat are my level, and that can be fixed by telling them not to use it. u may or may not like it, i dont care, but its earned me a good rep on my server and i have no trouble getting grps as msot people ask for me by request now. and oh yea rescue works great. if u do happen to lose aggro,</DIV> <DIV>Dregan Darklithium of guk server</DIV>

[Erronn]

<DIV>24 Guardian here...I do things similar to the original poster, I think. There are a few different scenarios though, depending on the crowd control method. These are for multi-mob encounters...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Enchanter mezzing - Here, I'm only concerned with keeping aggro on a single target at a time. I pull with arrow, use Anger while running back to group, then use Taunting Blow, Mangle, and Wound as often as they refresh for what appears to be added hate. I keep Anger available to use before I break mezz on the next target. I'll use Hold-the-line if all the mobs are bunched near me, otherwise I don't, due to the "root" feature. Also, I throw in some dps arts (Knee-break, etc.) if I can spare the power...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) Other tank off-tanking - Here, I'm again mainly concerned with keeping aggro on a single target at a time, and let the off-tank handle the others. Similar arts as in #1...I want to grab aggro asap on the next target, so I make sure Anger will be available. If I have trouble grabbing a next target, I'll throw in Shout as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) Me sole-tanking - Here, I need all mobs hitting me. I pull the same, with arrow then Anger. Then I use Taunting Blow, Mangle, and Wound as often as possible again. The difference is I use Shout partway into the battle, since the healer has probably pulled add-aggro soon after the start, and I want it back. I've tried using Shout on the pull, but it doesn't seem to add any hate after the initial pull aggro. Thus, because of the long re-cast, I save it for when I need to re-establish aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As an aside, Anger greys out our original Taunt combat art....so the latter really becomes useless. I'm assuming that Anger actually adds hate, and doesn't just "taunt" the mob onto us (similar to EQ1 taunt). Also, since there is not "failed taunt" type message, we're not really sure what it's doing....</DIV>

[Erronn]

<DIV>24 Guardian here...I do things similar to the original poster, I think. There are a few different scenarios though, depending on the crowd control method. These are for multi-mob encounters...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Enchanter mezzing - Here, I'm only concerned with keeping aggro on a single target at a time. I pull with arrow, use Anger while running back to group, then use Taunting Blow, Mangle, and Wound as often as they refresh for what appears to be added hate. I keep Anger available to use before I break mezz on the next target. I'll use Hold-the-line if all the mobs are bunched near me, otherwise I don't, due to the "root" feature. Also, I throw in some dps arts (Knee-break, etc.) if I can spare the power...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) Other tank off-tanking - Here, I'm again mainly concerned with keeping aggro on a single target at a time, and let the off-tank handle the others. Similar arts as in #1...I want to grab aggro asap on the next target, so I make sure Anger will be available. If I have trouble grabbing a next target, I'll throw in Shout as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) Me sole-tanking - Here, I need all mobs hitting me. I pull the same, with arrow then Anger. Then I use Taunting Blow, Mangle, and Wound as often as possible again. The difference is I use Shout partway into the battle, since the healer has probably pulled add-aggro soon after the start, and I want it back. I've tried using Shout on the pull, but it doesn't seem to add any hate after the initial pull aggro. Thus, because of the long re-cast, I save it for when I need to re-establish aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As an aside, Anger greys out our original Taunt combat art....so the latter really becomes useless. I'm assuming that Anger actually adds hate, and doesn't just "taunt" the mob onto us (similar to EQ1 taunt). Also, since there is not "failed taunt" type message, we're not really sure what it's doing....</DIV>

[Eal]

<DIV>The tactics you are using are fine but if you are having trouble keeping agro on two arrow red mobs then try this and see if it works for you. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Pull with anger because this will give you the most distance then use shouting cry because its a debuff and will gain more agro you should be able to do this before you make it back to camp spot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Now use taunting blow and any one debuffing blow like mangle.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3. "Now" use battle cry, this gains a lot of agro. "try just using battle cry right after someone else pulls and watch what happens."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4. Then use taunting blow so you can maintian agro while you use hunker down. You should be using soldier's stance at all times.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Once hunker down wears off you can go into any routine you want. I usually have shouting cry in que.</DIV> <DIV>You can change these up based on what works best for you but the idea is to use your buffs during the fight. I used many methods for taking out high level mobs and this one has worked best for me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The problem I've noticed with many people cycling through the taunt list is other classes like beserkers who I have the hardest time keeping agro from are starting their routine with debuffing attacks. You will lose agro almost everytime and its a pain to try and get it back. I also warn Casters that a lot of mobs like to start their attack with a stun so allow me 2 seconds to get some agro. Obviously this isn't the only method but I know it works.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>                                                                                28th Lvl Guardian----Tower</DIV><p>Message Edited by Ealix on <span class=date_text>12-05-2004</span> <span class=time_text>01:26 PM</span>

[DenverJay]

<DIV>One thing people have to remember.  Skills and spells have cons too.  When a skill turns gray, you shouldn't be using that skill any more.  Either you have gotten an upgrade or there's something else that does the job better.  It goes the other way also, a skill that is orange to you is not giving as good of an effect as one that's white.  So if you're in your 20's and you're still using the taunt you got as a fighter at lvl 4, I'm pretty sure it's not doing much for you.  To the contrary, it may actually be causing a negative effect by using a skill that's gray and has been gray for 15 levels.  Just a thought.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mack</DIV>

[Okaythen]

<DIV>hey there, up and coming Guardian here, level 21 as of last night.  I don't see any mention of the "Hold the Line" ability in these posts but for pulling big groups it works wonders for me.  We usually play with a chanter in the group and keeping the mobs mezzed while i am beating on the others makes him a target for when mezz wears off.  Hold the Line taunts all the mobs in the group mezzed or not while i am fighting.  So far i have had very few mobs ever target the chanter even if the mezz gets broken/worn off.  I usually pull with an arrow and hit Shout as soon as the mobs are close enough, then Hold the Line.  As i said so far this is working very well, but after reading some of the posts i think it may not be as effective as i reach the upper 20's.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good thread though!  I look forward to checking back and seeing more tactics.</DIV>

[Eal]

<DIV>            Right I didn't mention Hold the line which is a great tool, but not always necessary for one mob. As you all have probably seen, any spells cast during the fight especially buffs and heals draw agro on all Mobs in the area. I wish we had an ability that great since our AE taunt only works on groups. Hold the line is a great way to hold agro on multiple mobs regardless of which groups they are in. Just remember if you see a bunch of Mobs in the Area, rather than trying to individually taunt them which is next to impossible, use a group buff like battle tactics or whatever you have available then put up your Hold the line. Works great most of the time as long as no one panics and starts nuking.</DIV>

[Fam]

<DIV>Personally, I detest HTL can't stand being immobile.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyways my tactics</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ATM I'm 25</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For weapons I either use a Pristine Forged Carbonite Flamberge + shield or a Pristine Forged [Removed for Content] Sword (Fastest 2h I think and just as good dps as the rest), both of which just went yellow when I dinged 25 but Don't go white until 30.  By then I should be close to having a ghoulbane.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I always keep Guardians Cry, Call of Defense and Battle Tactics on since its not really that big of a deal power wise if you use it in Downtime.  If MTing I use Soldier's stance, if secondary tank I Allay the main tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I pull with anger to start a fight, from there I use Rally Cry (Long Reuse and alot of agro from that buff), Following That I Taunting Challenge -> Slam -> Wound -> Concussion -> If I have my shield out: Shield Bash -> Shouting Cry in quick succession.  After I have used my 4 attacks (5 with shield) I Hunker Down which turns me into a defensive machine.  If you have a good group you should not have to worry about anyone pulling agro at this point.  For the rest of the fight I use Slam, Concussion, Taunting Challenge, Shouting Cry and Rally Cry as they pop.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the pull consists of multiple mobs I throw Bury into the equation provided there isn't a chanter.</DIV>

[Vandame]

There has been a lot of good advice given on this thread so far. I too normally pull with arrows quickly followed by anger, group buffs and go into shout. Recently the groups I have been grouping with use almost exclusively HO moments and thus during the wheel phase I taunt and the healer gets in a heal or two. If I am pulling groups then I pretty much always use Hold the line for its AoE upon each hit I take, coupled with shout the hate generated by the healer has never had them pull aggro. Even with an enchanter I use shout as I don’t want the enchanter or healer hit when the Mez breaks. So far I have not had to contend with Bezerks in my group, but dont see any issue with them pulling aggro of a single mob from the group One question I have is why people are using Hunker Down. Did they not read its description? Quoted " Increase defense but reduces offense and threat level on enemy” Why would a main tank want to be reducing their threat level to the enemy? Only time I ever use the spell is when I am running away. But even then I normally am taunting and running in the opposite direction of my group so as to get them a chance to get away. One other comment I would like to add would be to remind your groups that if they can see the face of the mob then the mob has a chance of reducing the melee attack with its shield as well as counter attacking. I am not sure about AoE Melee like Assult if it still hits things in the back as I have not had a chance to test this out.