Ack

[Araze]

- I feel ¤%&#¤ for getting a **ZOMG**ty Halberd as subclass reward- I feel ¤%&#¤ for not being able to tank Specials as good as agility based classes- I feel ¤%&#¤ that AC, our main defense ability, seem to not make a huge difference. 1200 give or take AC wont make a tad worth against Specials from lvl 5 mobs. Sick..- I feel ¤%&#¤ when Zerkers outdamage AND outtanunt me- I feel somewhat ¤%&#¤ for getting a [Removed for Content]-smoke-hand "cool" ability at level 20- I feel ¤%&#¤, and in fact starting to get bored of playing guardian. level 21851 hp901 acI guess this sucks, but I have a hard time getting upgrade armor, because "nobody" need a sucky tank in the harder zones where the good drops are. Evil circle... Im stuck, more or less.I hope and assume it gets better at higher level, but it doesnt look good.Before some funny guy says "go play another class then, whiner".. I started a Predator. It rocks! This is FUN, not boring, frustrating and stupid.Someone give our class hope? Anyone higher up there in level, with experience. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Benderla]

<DIV>which server are you on?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In everfrost, we seem to have a huge shortage of cleric classes.  Tons of shammies and druids, but very few clerics.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The shammies and druids are also playing a hybrid roll, and like to do things like melee allot.  This is very cool, but the result is we have these pickup groups in most of the <20 zones (and even some 20+ zones) that are full of a bunch of melees standing around with nothing to do because they cant find a healer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My solution was to make a healer so I can do something if I get into a situation like this, but that option isnt open to everyone-- and can be rather dangerous if you are going for XP at 20+ anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im guessing that allot of people came into this game thinking that they would LITERALLY be able to solo the whole game.  The result is many people choose classes that they wanted to play - not realizing how difficult the group situation would be.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My suggestion?  Find a few people that you play well with, and try like MAD to stick to them for a week or so.  Do everything with eachother - commit to finishing eachothers tasks, etc.  Dont just do this war to rogue/monk, find a healer - toss him a bone - make sure he gets his need before greed loot.  Help him/her with some quests...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its kindergarten all over again, but oh well!</DIV>

[Taurcl]

<DIV>You may as well play whats fun to you and if you like Pred then go nuts but guardian is NOT broken. If you quit, its because you cant wrap your head around guardian and other people convinced you it was broken when its not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Agi tanks do not avoid more than guardians, dont believe everything you read. This is a flat out lie. I avoid TONS of attacks as a guardian, and I challenge any monk/bruiser to avoid more on a common basis. if they do avoid more its marginally so, not enough to make a serious impact when compared to your HPs / AC.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And you have pretty lame HPs and AC for someone of your level. Go buy some gear. Im 25, but on average I run around with 1500 hps and 1350ish AC and I KNOW I was higher than your hp/ac at level 21. Guarantee'd. And i know I could get even better gear than I have but Im too lazy. Its half NPC vendor bought, half quest armor. Crafted armor would be even better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AC is king and dont forget the jewlery to get it up there. Jewlery is a large part of any guardians AC.<BR><BR>When hero's armor HO goes off... my AC gets up close to 2000. Nothing touches me with 2000 ac when in a group with other AC buffs. If that goes off the healer can go afk =P so dont gimme this AC dont help crap and avoidance tanks are better garbage.... cuz its trash.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>if you dont like guardian then dont play it by all means but if you understand your class and dont believe what every whiner posts you can have alot of fun with guardian. I LOVE getting tons of agro on me and keeping it there... taking hard beats and standing through it. Guardian does it WONDERFULLY. So other classes steal agro once in a while due to weird circumstances. Cry more n00b or steal it back. If someone else takes agg from me I can get it back... every time. So if they did have it they dont have it long. I dont expect to have all of the agro all of the time just because Im a guardian. Its my JOB to get the agro back if I lose it, and I have the tools to do it. And I love it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes ive grouped with zerks, I can still get the agro back. Now if they are TRYING to keep agro from you thats another story, but if they are then you are grouping with a stupid zerk.</DIV>

[Raiden]

hah,i did an experiment yesterday in steppes against blue con shore crabs (im lvl 26)with all my armor ON and spamming specials i took 1 down and ended with 86% HPwith all my armor OFF and spamming specials i took 1 down and ended with 68% HPWOW big difference considering i have 1441 AC /sarcasm

[Mig]

That's invalid test. One, your still going to parry, and dodge with no armor on, Two the mob is going not hit you very hard because it is not a real threat to you. Do this. Run up to a WHITE mob, and DO NOTHING not even go into attack stance, and see if it kills you faster with armor on, or off. Then repeat this ten times each way and average the result.Do something even remotely scientific next time you want to offer up facts.

[Taurcl]

<DIV>Yeah tests should be done on white mobs. Also, did you leave your shield on? Because like ive said many times, between block parry and dodge I barely get hit period. THAT is a guardians main strength in my opinion.<BR><BR>Everyone is whining that avoidance tanks tank better just because they read that style damage isnt being properly mitigated. The style damage mitigation MAY be a valid issue, as I said before I havent tested that yet (but will soon, tonight if possible). But as for avoidance... we can avoid attacks plenty well ourselves. Try it out sometime.</DIV> <DIV><BR>I dont have any actual stats... but id like to see some combat logs of Guardians and Monks / Bruisers vs white mobs and counts on the following :<BR><BR># of attacks mob made</DIV> <DIV># of attacks that landed (also which styles the mob used and how many times for reference in other questions)</DIV> <DIV># of blocks</DIV> <DIV># of dodges</DIV> <DIV># of parrys</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>etc etc. Show me some stats on that and maybe ill raise and eyebrow. ill try and provide some myself some time if i can. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For all we know you completely avoided more attacks in the fight w/o your armor. What you should have supplied if you insist on testing vs blues is the actual damage per swing by style with armor on and off averaged into categories.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i.e.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>armor on - hit by wild swing for an average of 50 pts per hit (based on avg of 20 hits with wild swing)</DIV> <DIV>armor off - hit by wild swing for an average of 80 pts per hit (based on avg of 20 hits with wild swing)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now THAT is information we could all use imo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Taurclax on <span class=date_text>12-01-2004</span> <span class=time_text>09:08 AM</span>

[Raiden]

oh im sorry for saying anything at all.

[Araze]

Taurclax, you are giving me hope.Any tips to where i can get gear that give more HP? Wearing lots of vendor bought armor, getting ok AC from it, but lacking HP and resists. Been all over, cant find on vendors, not on brokers, and quests give lousy gear, at least the ones I have found so far.Lvl 22 now, 923 Hp 981 AC, my guess i am abouot 100-200 behind in both?Any tips appriciated <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[God_of_Avalon]

<DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by God_of_Avalon on <span class=date_text>12-06-2004</span> <span class=time_text>09:30 PM</span>

[GenesisForgot]

I'm at level 26 -I have Steel Platemail Helmet, full Cold Forged Quest armor, Full pristine Fasioned gold or agate jewely, Aegis of the Guardian, Skullcrusher - here's my stats unbuffed:http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=1136681021500 armor. With self buffs that pushes me over 1600. I've had over 1900 in a group with a shaman /druid. And this is only at level 26..

[Fable_E]

<BLOCKQUOTE>A major issue Plate classes have with this (Guardians, SKs, Pallys) is that you can have all the AC in the world and it doesn't properly mitigate specials.  At 28 I have over 2200 AC with the right group buffs..   I can tank, but the issue per se is that I could have 5000 AC and it still wouldn't affect the mob specials properly. </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Its something we hope is being addressed.  </P> <P>Instead of Store bought pay about 50-70 sps more per piece and pick up some decent Player crafted Vanguard plate.<BR></P> <p>Message Edited by Fable_EQ2 on <span class=date_text>12-02-2004</span> <span class=time_text>04:44 AM</span>

[Taurcl]

<DIV>Arazeth : I was just wearing vendor armor and jewlery for the most part too. I finished AQ5 last night so the only vendor peices I got left is jewlery and helm /chest. The HPs and power are nice from player crafted stuff but I havent found any outfitters without terrible prices. All I can recommend is do the 20+ armor quests from Dyric in east freeport bow shop (dont know queynos one) as the rewards are very nice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>God of avalon : As many people will testify ... 2000+ ac is not impossible. And if you read my post closely you would see that I said average with group buffs is only 1500-1600ish depending on who Im grouped with and that I only go over 2000 when HERO's ARMOR goes off. Which is a heroic opportunity that gives you a MASSIVE 3 minute boost to armor class. If you knew anything about anything you would know all of these statements are perfectly normal and viable for mid 20s guardians (or other plate wearers)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for others who  go on about AC being broken : I never said it wasnt. I have stated on several occasions that I have yet to test that. Though I ran some tests last night that came up inconclusive imo. =(<BR><BR>I was monitoring AE hits throughout the group getting people to broadcast the dmg (I know all their stats already) that they were taking from mob AEs. It 'seemed' like on average people took more damage from AEs than me which would lead me to believe that special attack mitigation is working properly... but there was not enough to entirely convince me. I will continue to look into this. I must admit though from last nights testing I am leaning towards believing that it works. I would like to see some logs that prove otherwise because if it IS broken it needs fixing and Im not 100% convinced either way yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However... ac mitigation of special attacks or not, I would like to point out that mobs still throw out alot of non special attacks and AC definitely mitigates those. And in long fights mobs run out of power. For instance last night me and my GF got jumped by 4 blues... by the time I had 2 dead, the last 2 were out of power. So whether or not we find solid proof of the ac mitigation working properly or not... AC IS GOOD. Ok? Yes? Good.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS : I cant benchpress jack... Im a sissy. And if Im one thing its honest. Sometimes I may be wrong... but if I believe I am right, with or without solid proof. I will advocate my position and seek the proof I need. =) which is why Im still looking for some logs on the AC mitigation problem.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Taurclax on <span class=date_text>12-02-2004</span> <span class=time_text>09:36 AM</span>