Guardians can't taunt off berserkers?

[Saphar]

<DIV>Hi guys, 24 guardian here. Lately I've been having problems tanking at all with a 25 berserker in my group. I'm using taunting challenge(apprentice 1), taunting blow(apprentice 1), anger(apprentice 3) and shouting cry(apprentice 1) -- no, let me rephrase that, spamming them -- and I can't get agro for anything. The only time I can possibly hold agro is on the original mob I pull. The rest just bounce off when he starts berserking or whatever. Anyone know a way to remedy this, or am I basically reduced to a half-[Removed for Content] dps while I'm grouping with this guy?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Right now I'm using a Carbonite War Axe if that means anything. Thanks... this is getting annoying.</DIV>

[Tryple]

<DIV>I was having a similiar problem. Aggro is really quirky in tis game I've had a player get aggro from 1 spell and even with them just standing there not attacking it has taken 3-4 taunts to get the mob off. I haven't really had a problem with this as much anymore since I upgraded all my taunt skills to Adept 1. Also use you group buffs (RC, Battle Tactics etc..) after your initial round of taunts. These produce decent aggro themselves and I haven't lost aggro yet since I have been doing this method.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Dekan]

<DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Real quick...</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Doesn't Anger trade some of it's "taunting" effectiveness for range?  I'd always thought it did, and I dont remember who/what gave me that impression...  If I dont need the range, I always use Taunt...</DIV>

[Fable_E]

<DIV>One thing to keep in mind:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Levels 1-20   Warrior: Guard / Zerker the same.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Levels 21+  Divergence.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You only have 3 levels of abilities different from this Zerker and they are prety much buff differences (Call of Command and Guardian's).  So if this Zerker wants to show off at this time they will probably be able to produce:</DIV> <UL> <LI>Equal levels of Hate from abilities.</LI> <LI>Increased Dmg from DW or 2 hander over a std Sword / Board defensive style.</LI></UL> <P>Add to this that 1 level is actually a huge difference it seems in EQ2 and you have a 3rd "normal" factor.</P> <P>I did have similar experiences at 24 in Beta.. I have not had the pleasure of ones company in retail, but you know at 24 that you are near the top of the curve.  </P> <P>Basically define roles with him and have him not taunt.  </P> <UL> <LI>Anger</LI> <LI>Shout</LI> <LI>Call of Command</LI> <LI>(situationally Bury)</LI> <LI>Taunting Blow</LI></UL> <P>These should be viable to get you the agro you need in that order.  If he is determined in the mid-20s to steal agro you probably can't do much about it at this time though.  Basically he is you with more output... looking at the lists for Guardian abilities I believe this will change, but it still comes down to level of abilities, levels of character and determination.  If you want to hold agro but he is going all out to get it.. he will win..  If you go all out to get it and are the puller you should be able to maintain it as long as he assists you.</P><p>Message Edited by Fable_EQ2 on <span class=date_text>11-21-2004</span> <span class=time_text>03:24 AM</span>

[Afterglo]

<DIV>I think other fighters have real trouble not spamming taunt in groups...  I use taunt as needed, don't spam it as a guardian, and people are always pulling taunt off me.  These groups usually suck because their taunt spam prevents HOs from working well, and their taunt spamming can lead to dangerous situations with healers having to heal multiple people.  My worst problem has been with people saying they aren't taunting, "magically" getting all the group to aggro them (ie, using Shout).</DIV>

[Aren]

<DIV>You need NEED to upgrade your skills</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Buy Apprentice III everything, and Adept 1 what you can right now</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have Adept I Anger, Adept I Taunting Blow, Apprentice III Shout, and App I Shouting Cry(level23)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't have much trouble with aggro, unless a druid casts regen on me after I aggro, and before I can shout (**ZOMG** druids)</DIV>

[bjo]

<DIV>yeah ive had the same problem with a higher lvl zerk but i was keeping agro no problem when i was grouped with a lower lvl zerk</DIV>

[MajorBurn]

<DIV>I solved this problem in my groups by asking to be the one to pull the mobs....let me be the first to smack em and they rarely jump from me to another person...but I hear aggro managment gets tougher at higher levels so i couldnt say.</DIV>

[Jesper]

Initial agro is huge.You should pull 90% of the time unless some fancy agroing is required.Remember our shouts work on encounter level. They are not aes. If you get multiple encounters on you use your group buffs for agro. Assault is actually better then bury in multiple encounter agro since its a true ae. Bury works on a single encounter. (nice when no enchanter is around).Also keep eyes on your combat arts con. If they are orange they havent reached their full potential and you might be better of with the old ability especially if you got app3,adept1 and the new is only app1.GranbarRunnyeye

[Hintshigen]

<DIV>You can also use Hold the Line to build up agro with every successful hit you do, I've never had a problem maintaining agro in groups even with higher level zerkers in it. It's all in how you use your combat arts. Know which ones build up hate and use them, and definately, definately upgrade your skills, even if it's only to App II</DIV>

[Farrud]

Aggro at higher lvls is an issue. I find that if i pull there are longer down times and more initial healing. I have maintained almost unfailable aggro by having anyone pull (though Trickshot pulling is ideal). They bring it back to me since i have hold the line on. Then i use Taunting Challenge which increases agro with each hit like hold the line but for a shorter time. Then i use taunting blow. After that i will not need to taunt again on solo mobs.For mobs that come in groups I use the same pull technique but Toss Shouting Cry then Bury as first skills. Bury coupled with Hold the line is VERY nice at estabolishing solid agro.

[Ainm]

I'm pretty sure Bloodlust is bugged atm. It creates an obscene amount of aggro for a berserker, far more than is warranted. That's why level 23+ Berserkers steal aggro all the time from just melee.

[Lightmoog]

<DIV>I just feel the need to say that 75% of the scouts on Guk are lazy, and need to learn it is their job to pull. If a scout pulls, i don't even have to taunt, i put up my 3 shouts and bam, aggro is locked for the entire fight usually, even if the mobs aren't in the same encounter. Also Dig In snares me, and it is a pain to recast after every single pull, and if I lose aggro before Dig In, and all 3 calls are cast, it is almost impossible to get it back. Tanks don't pull, scouts pull, it is even in Sony's description of their class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But back to the berserker topic, I've never had a zerker take aggro off me unless he was spamming his buffs in addition to bloodrage, since bloodrage is a proc it does create more aggro then normal attacks. But what really does it is all the aoe and self buffs, if you cast those when you are in an encounter, it creates a tremendous amount of aggro.</DIV>

[Gun]

<DIV>Hello,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a 25 Guardian on Nektulos when I find myself grouping with Zerks... I normally find our HP/AC to be around the same.. so instead of trying to compete with the Berserker for Aggro I let him tank and I use my protection skills on him to add my tanking ability, AC, Defense, and parry skills to his.. it seems to even out the damage and makes it easier on the healer who has to heal him less and me only once in awhile...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Try this tactic. I am not sure how it works with a Pally/SK, I have never had to compete with them for aggro.</DIV>

[Ryan]

Major issue I see here is you are still using Apprentice I skills. Upgrading is extremely important which I think was mentioned above. If you upgrade to at least Apprentice III I doubt anyone will out aggro you.Be sure to use group buffs as well like Battle Tactics, Rallying Cry, ect... they get you a nice bit of attention =)

[Fable_E]

<DIV>I did some tests with this.. Zerkers give off mad Agro and im not sure why.. It migh be because they use 2 handers?  Not sure but Zerkers that are -1 or -2 levels of me can easily hold agro throughout a fight even when I am using everything I have.</DIV>

[kenn]

<DIV>what do you expect at 24 with nearly all app 1 skills?  seriously, its ok to be cheap i guess, but dont come in here wondering why your skills are sub par...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>also- if a berzerker is getting agro from you based purely on his attack power (ie- not using any taunt type skills,) you are in serious trouble.  most mages do more damage, as do some other classes- if you cant keep agro off a mid level damage class, how can you possible tank with high damage classes?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ainm]

kenney - As I said, Bloodlust is bugged and causing an intense amount of aggro. Reading comprehension, anyone? Go to the Berserker forum and you'll see what I mean...You won't see this problem until the Berserker hits 23 and starts using Bloodlust.