Guardian damage taken vs monk damage taken (link inside)

[Yennik]

<DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=1756" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=1756</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>dissapointing...</DIV>

[GangsterFi]

/sighWell I am probably going to get flamed for this, but let me explain a few things. First off, I am a lvl 22 monk on kithicor. My guildmate is a 23 guardian. Monks cannot tank better than guardians. Here is why and how.1) Upgrade your armor. My guardian buddy has all yellow or orange con armor. If you don't keep constant upgrades your tanking ability does decrease.At lvl 22 I have around 900 HP and 615 AC as a monk. My guardian buddy has 1100+ hp and around 1200 AC, obivous difference. My guess is your equipment is not as good as it should be for your level. Get rid of your old armor, but store bought, and do you lvl 20+ armor quests. The truth is I die faster than the guardian does. He has more AC and more HP. The monk avoidance is okay but as I have gotten higher in level it has made me less of a main tank. I have constant upgrades on my armor and most of my stuff cons yellow or orange now.DPS- Well, I could easily out DPS my guardian buddy until last night. He got some thundering sword that procs a 34damage DD when fighitng. If he starts proc'ing left and right I cannot keep up with his damage. Otherwise, yeah I can pretty much out DPS any other fighter class. We have been doing the armor quests and will be doing the 4th piece tonight. Tactics. Its all about tactics. The truth is, its not the guardian class that is at fault, its the player. You have to know how to play your class and stratagize. We only had 1 healer last night and no chanter and we did battlepriest, marksman, library, atrium, ect in storm hold. The group was 1 guardian 1 monk, 1 shaman, 2 scouts, 1 mage. We did really good and only wiped like twice due to buggy mob pulling and weird mob pathing issues. Sometimes we would get invisible mobs and it would be hard to target them. Otherwise, we completed all the mobs needed for all of our quests. The guardian was the main tank the whole time, and he did a great job.The truth is, if they want the monks to compete with the heavy armor class their avoidance needs tweakage. When I try to tank 3 mobs that hit for 250+ damage in SH, I am mana drain on the healer. When the guardian tanked it was easier to heal him, because of the higher ac and HPs he has.Now, you can very well make the monk an awesome main tank, but it requires tactics. You need to have a heavy armor tank with the monk to make them effective. Have the guardian intervine on the monk, giving the monk mitigation. Then add in the avoidance factor of a monk and you got a really good main tank.A lot of tanks are just upset and crying about how the monks are tanks now. They are all afraid that monks will steal their thunder. Which is not true. This is a team effort game and takes group play to make things work. The guardian is a NEEDED class. If the guardian did not intervine on me, I would have less tanking abilities. Its all means to an end and people need to stop saying my class sucks compared to your class. I want avoidance and FD but wana wear heavy armor. The game is balanced this way for a reason. Deal with it. Learn how to play your character. I will tell you what monks cannot do. Monks cannot intervine at all. We tried it, and I got owned. Intervine does not take avoidance into factor. It just absorbs straight damage. When when a monk intervines on someone he does not get the benefit of avoidance or mitigation. Which makes the role of intervining pretty much up to the heavy armor tanks. I must have died in about 8 seconds when we were fighting in storm hold last night, because I tried to intervine on the guardian when the healer went low on power. It was pretty sad, I died fast. So, what it all comes down to is knowing how to play your class. The monks are a main tank class now deal with it. Mitigation is still better than avoidance unless you use certain tactics otherwise. Many different dungeons and encounters require different classes to do different things at different times. This is not EQ1, its a different game.Equipment is so important for a tank in this game. I see people running around stil with their lvl 10 quest armor bp that grey at lvl 20. Trash it and buy a store bought one with no stats. The ac is more important than the stats.

[Xter]

<DIV>I could make a lvl 12 Chanter tank better then a lvl 12 WAR if I play the WAR really bad and hes got crap for gear.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its sad to keep seeing posts about how Guards are bad tanks, or where other classes thing they are better "TANKS"  becuse they group with a Guard/WAR that has poor gear, and doesnt know how to play their class..  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you want to deal out damage, play something else.  Guards are about Taunt and Deffence.  Gear and your Deff skills are key, and you HAVE to use them.  Just like any other class, your are not going to be as effective if you not using your skills right.  </DIV>

[ReepstaSo]

<DIV>I am eager to know what these "Armour Quests" are. I am a Guardian and i am very much aware of the need to keep your items at your skill lvl (Ex DAoC player) but i have no idea that there are quests specifically for armour.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any help would be much appreciated.</DIV>

[Kuda]

<DIV>See the Class Armor thread for where the 20th Heavy Armor quest givers are <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=109" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=109</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kudara</DIV>

[T3465]

GangsterFist::I know this is a tad late (ok, almost 20 days lol) but that's one heckuva good post, worthy of others seeing. I just made guardian last night and frankly I can tank like a beast. We (group of 6 L17-20 with me being the only 20 in the bunch) did Thundering Steppes and did very well. We pulled almost non-stop everything from single yellow and orange (group-con) ++'s to 4-5 (group-con) evens to yellows (et al) for roughly 2 hours.At the time, my AC was 856 using medium armor only and my hit points a tad over 900. Our group makeup was 1 brawler, 2 druid, 1 guardian, 1 warrior, and 1 bard. I'd pull with a bow, anger and shout on incoming, lock the mobs in with hold the line, buff the party up with Rally, Orders, etc... and sit back and watch the show.Frankly, I'm well pleased with the Guardian line, even in my solo-abilities. In short, I get tells often asking for me to join groups, from people I'd grouped with in the past. I think that speaks for itself... something about the class is working right.Anyway, chalk another one up to the + side, in amidst all the negatives.g/l and have fun with it!PS: It's not all fire and brimstone =).

[GenesisForgot]

at 25 I think Guardian is easily the best tank. No question about it. I can tank groups of 6 yellow monsters with a single healer and no problems and hold hate on all of them through anything but a beserker going ape **ZOMG**. I doubt a monk could do the same.

[Roddy]

<DIV>Guardians are the best tanks period. If you have a problem tanking then im sorry change your gear upgrade your spells taunt more to hold hate get more ac. All you guys are the best tanks thats all i have to say.</DIV>

[Benderla]

<DIV>Ok - a few anecdotes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>last night - i had aggro from a group of 4.  Im a 22 guard.  I went down like.. well.. you know.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>nobody put a ward or a reactive on me - and even with about 1000 hp - i was toast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>why?  Spells.  I took 4 shots directly in the face all at once - and didnt resist on any of them.  Oops.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ok - now - on melee mobs... i can do some really cool stuff.  I can take about 80% of the damage being dealt to a badly placed monk, while taunting all the other mobs onto me.  The cleric can drop a reactive on the monk (with say, 2 aggroed) and by the time it gets to me, i have all 4 aggroed, PERMANENTLY, have dropped into hold the line, and we all get to watch my HP go back up from about 30 percent.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Incidentally - wards are great - but the reactive heals are really the best for keeping a guard alive.  The armor really does slow the non-spell damage down considerably.  Dont forget to put your mitigation self buffs up... like--- battlecry?  before pulling.  I have adept 1 - and with it, in a situation where i survive 8 seconds without a heal, I will survive about 15, assuming no spells are cast at me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is NOT just peel and eat, you really have to pay [Removed for Content] attention and be careful.... I see allot of people whining, etc, and then I go into a pickup group,and half the group advances down the hallway into an un-cleared room for a fight, aggroing like 100000 more mobs.  Why do I point this out?  I point this out because the problem isnt the class, its the player.  Hands down.  </DIV>

[Anker Steadfast]

<DIV>Rallying Cry is worth getting up .. adds about 50 AC to everyone in the group for 30 seconds on Apprentice III.</DIV> <DIV>And it even adds some aggro to the encounter if you cast it right after shout, because you buff your friends ... MOBs really don't like that. :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Incidentally, I really don't like Toughness since it's Self only, short duration and low benefit.</DIV> <DIV>But then, it's like, a level 3 skill.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hunker Down is great once you are certain you have the aggro.</DIV> <DIV>Just make **ZOMG** well sure about the aggro, or things will go wrong very fast.</DIV> <DIV>It's also great when you have to flee.</DIV>

[Mig]

Also if your resists are crappy your going to get owned by spells and special attacks no matter what. There is a reason the armor quests are giving 50+ or more in some of the resist stats. Buffs are critical against spell casters.AC isn't the only thing.

[GenesisForgot]

agreed. I have a LOT of resists and a lot of armor class, look here:http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=113668102absolutely zero problems tanking.

[Game]

<DIV>Make no mistake because you will be deeply dissapointed if you try to lvl a monk and be a tank. I curently dropped my lvl 21 monk to recreate a warrior ( guaridan or possibly zerker ). Monks tanking ability past lvl 18 on an yellow/orange con with ++ is equal to zero... Monks lack the AC to tank mobs that can hit for double 300+ a round and they go down way to quick to last. Sure monks dps is great and their attacks look awesome BUT they are not a  tank past lvl 20 period. Avoidance is not a tanking tool because it is so very unreliable its not even funny. SOmetime syou can avoid 6 or 10 hits in arow and sometimes you get smacked 4 times in arow so hard you will die instantly. Defensive stances and best gear you can get makes no difference here , to my experience monks tanking ability ends at an even coning mob at best post 20.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE simply lied about monks being a tanking class and that truelly ticks me off,  I simply can not comprehend the purpose of this lies or maybe it is the lack of game knowledge by the people at SOE who provide us with information.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>