Hopefully no "elitist" and/or restricted areas this year

[Eriol_Ancalag]

Last year at the Rio during the Pool Party, there was an entire area roped off and guarded by hotel security staff that only the SoE staff and some fan site invitees could go (they had different wristbands than the rest of us).  As a result: very VERY few SoE employees or even prominent fan personalities were with the rest of us in the main press of people (IIRC this happened at the Voodoo Lounge the night before too, but I'm not certain... definitely happened at the pool party though).It resulted in BAD feelings for more than a few people (myself included of course, as that's why I'm writing this).  It really felt like a "we matter, and we're not mingling with you other people" type of thing.Let's not have any of that this year.  I definitely won't be going unless there's some type of guarantee that is NOT going to happen again, as it REALLY put me down on even the whole concept where everybody mingles, because well this was obvious that everybody could NOT.  It was a real put-down considering such a thing didn't seem to be apparent in Atlanta the year before.

[Kela]

<p>Yes it happened in the Voodoo lounge as well, but the "roped off area" was still a part of the non-roped area, as such you could stand on the roped off side and see and talk to people on the non-roped side. This was NOT the case with the Pool Party, as the seating area in the roped off area was so far in that you could not see the people in thier.</p><p> That said, while I also did not like the fact that they had a Roped off area for Summit Attendies, especally at the pool party where you could not cross mingle. I did not think there was any lack of Dev Contact because of it. I spent most of the night interacting with devs including dunking Grimwell, granted I was not always talking to the devs of the game I play(EQ2)but I accually found the conversations with the devs of the other SoE games very interesting... especally the VG and SWG devs.</p>

[Auroz]

I'm just going to say, this sounds like a good idea.. I don't remember which thing this was.. but I'm remembering the get together on a roof (voodoo?)  and a whole side of it was guarded off. Only reason I remember was because I wanted a picture of the pyramid hotel from up high and couldn't get as close as possible because of the 'elite rope' in the way. =/ I can't say I was 'angry' or 'offended.' More weirded out and confused. I remember talking to devs outside of the rope.. and at other places.. even having them in our room! So I know they aren't elitist or worried rabid fans (or enemies) are going to attack them.. that's why I didn't understand the roping. It just seemed awkward and weird for the 'regular folks' trying to enjoy themselves.

[Leko]

<cite>Eriol_Ancalagon wrote:</cite><blockquote>Last year at the Rio during the Pool Party, there was an entire area roped off and guarded by hotel security staff that only the SoE staff and some fan site invitees could go (they had different wristbands than the rest of us).  As a result: very VERY few SoE employees or even prominent fan personalities were with the rest of us in the main press of people (IIRC this happened at the Voodoo Lounge the night before too, but I'm not certain... definitely happened at the pool party though).It resulted in BAD feelings for more than a few people (myself included of course, as that's why I'm writing this).  It really felt like a "we matter, and we're not mingling with you other people" type of thing.Let's not have any of that this year.  I definitely won't be going unless there's some type of guarantee that is NOT going to happen again, as it REALLY put me down on even the whole concept where everybody mingles, because well this was obvious that everybody could NOT.  It was a real put-down considering such a thing didn't seem to be apparent in Atlanta the year before.</blockquote>Get used to it.  The current situation at SOE is even worse then last year.  Most of the Devs will not want to talk to a normal player and are only going to "hang out" with the cheerleader crowd or theie guild friends in Onyx.  The current community team/Dev team really has no concern for the everday player base.  I can almost guarantee that their will be VIP areas and that for a major part if not the entire time the Devs will be in said VIP zone.

[Kiara-]

<p>Funny... I've never had access to these so called VIP zones... And I've always had plenty of face time with all the SOE devs I can manage to juggle.</p><p>I think it has a lot less to do with being a cheerleader than with treating other human beings with respect.</p><p>I'm sorry you feel excluded somehow, but I'm guessing that it might have a lot less to do with the dev teams only interacting with "elite" people and more to do with not wanting to be constantly put down and berated for trying to do their jobs.</p>

[Radar-X]

<cite>Leko wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Get used to it.  The current situation at SOE is even worse then last year.  Most of the Devs will not want to talk to a normal player and are only going to "hang out" with the cheerleader crowd or theie guild friends in Onyx.  The current community team/Dev team really has no concern for the everday player base.  I can almost guarantee that their will be VIP areas and that for a major part if not the entire time the Devs will be in said VIP zone.</blockquote>Being able to tell the future sounds cool.  Can you give me some lottery numbers too?  I remember speaking with 5 or 6 developers at the pool party and my group wasn't in any roped off area.  In fact we were off to the side and they went out of their way to say hello. 

[Kiara-]

<cite>RadarX wrote:</cite><blockquote>Being able to tell the future sounds cool.  Can you give me some lottery numbers too?  I remember speaking with 5 or 6 developers at the pool party and my group wasn't in any roped off area.  In fact we were off to the side and they went out of their way to say hello.  </blockquote><p><span style="color: #cc99ff;">* cough *  senior producer.  and ... * counts on fingers *  5 devs... and however many community people...</span></p><p><span style="color: #cc99ff;">not only were we off to the side, we were actually way back in the back and faaaaar away from all the rest of the people.</span></p><p><span style="color: #cc99ff;">so they went way beyond out of their way... they killed sherpas and llamas to get to us to say hello.</span></p>

[MasterCosmo]

<p>lol, they probably have private areas so DEVs can get away from some people if they stalk them <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I do hope that most will not just hide in these areas to avoid a lot of the people attending, but I cannot blame them for having these areas though. I'm sure people like Smed would need to dodge some people, as If he was surrounded by players 24/7, he might not make it out alive</p>

[Calthine]

<cite>Master_Cosmo wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>lol, they probably have private areas so DEVs can get away from some people if they stalk them <img src="/station/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></p></blockquote>And they should.  You've got potentially a thousand people all hoping to talk to a dev or three, they should be allowed a place to catch their breath.

[Eriol_Ancalag]

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Funny... I've never had access to these so called VIP zones... And I've always had plenty of face time with all the SOE devs I can manage to juggle.</p><p>I think it has a lot less to do with being a cheerleader than with treating other human beings with respect.</p><p>I'm sorry you feel excluded somehow, but I'm guessing that it might have a lot less to do with the dev teams only interacting with "elite" people and more to do with not wanting to be constantly put down and berated for trying to do their jobs.</p></blockquote>Hey, I had lunch with some developers (Lotus and Saavedra in fact, and yes I have pictures), and hell a friend even got Grimwell's number, so it's not like it was a huge problem for me getting "face time" when needed (alcohol helps btw, and considering the drink prices at the Rio, that's no surprise (Just ask Kendricke about that) ), but in the public events having such areas just felt like a huge rejection of most of the community.  Yes we don't run fansites, and yes we might not have as huge a voice as some others, but we were THERE, and that place should be the equalizer of voices, not a place where the division becomes even more apparent.

[Kalthan]

I think it's fine for the devs to have a separate area for some events, considering they are having lots of group events the rest of the time during the Fan Faire.

[Kiara-]

<span style="color: #cc99ff;">Once again <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  It wasn't about fan sites.  If it was I'd have been in the VIP areas as well.  Nor was it about excluding anyone.  Nor at any point did anyone "hide" in those areas.  I get that the very existence of a VIP anything is abhorrent to most people, however it's one of those things that happens anywhere you go.  People get box seats at sporting events too.At no point did anyone who was invited to the summit last year shun or snub the rest of the fans.  They got a VIP area because they were there by invitation.  Let's look at it this way, had you been invited to the summit, would you now be posting about the inequity of a VIP section where you could go catch a breather or grab a snack?  Is it any different than having a group of friends to sit with in between rounds of mingling and getting to know new people?</span>

[Sandain666]

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Funny... I've never had access to these so called VIP zones... And I've always had plenty of face time with all the SOE devs I can manage to juggle.</p><p>I think it has a lot less to do with being a cheerleader than with treating other human beings with respect.</p><p>I'm sorry you feel excluded somehow, but I'm guessing that it might have a lot less to do with the dev teams only interacting with "elite" people and more to do with not wanting to be constantly put down and berated for trying to do their jobs.</p></blockquote>I got to agree with Kiara. I have been to multiple Fan Faires and never been invited to any "VIP" areas but I have always been able to get some time with the any of the devs I wanted to speak to.  Maybe SOE should /random some VIP passes to a few "normal" players?

[Fromage]

This is funny stuff.. and Cal is completely correct. The developers and producers need some breathing space to unwind. Its also an opportunity for the fansites to conduct casual interviews and such.I attended a Microsoft conference back when Windows 2000 was being launched. Those of us who were contributing to the development were allowed access to Balmer and Gates. And, as a result I got an 8 ball tumbler in the back of the head on my way in and called a "fanbois". Its not fair.. but its necessary sometimes.

[Stormcind]

<cite>Eriol_Ancalagon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Funny... I've never had access to these so called VIP zones... And I've always had plenty of face time with all the SOE devs I can manage to juggle.</p><p>I think it has a lot less to do with being a cheerleader than with treating other human beings with respect.</p><p>I'm sorry you feel excluded somehow, but I'm guessing that it might have a lot less to do with the dev teams only interacting with "elite" people and more to do with not wanting to be constantly put down and berated for trying to do their jobs.</p></blockquote>Hey, I had lunch with some developers (Lotus and Saavedra in fact, and yes I have pictures), and hell a friend even got Grimwell's number, so it's not like it was a huge problem for me getting "face time" when needed (alcohol helps btw, and considering the drink prices at the Rio, that's no surprise (Just ask Kendricke about that) ), but in the public events having such areas just felt like a huge rejection of most of the community.  Yes we don't run fansites, and yes we might not have as huge a voice as some others, but we were THERE, and that place should be the equalizer of voices, not a place where the division becomes even more apparent.</blockquote><p>/agree.  THIS is the problem.  VIP areas are all about elitism.  That's the whole concept.  Call it a "rest area" or "decompression area" or whatever makes you feel better, but the bottom line is it's about "who's inside" and "who's outside" the rope.  If the "VIPs" are so tired and overworked by talking to fans, perhaps they could...I don't know...go up to their room?  Or arrange a private party in a separate location altogether.  Separating groups at the same party is a disgusting abuse of authority.  If it's an issue for setting up interviews, etc for bloggers, etc. then can't they arrange a "press conference" type meeting specifically for that purpose?</p><p>No.  Because that is not what VIP sections are about.  They are about who is important, and who is not.</p><p>SC</p>

[soehatesshaman]

<p>I would have to agree here...having restricted area's blows. US "normal" players pay so much more than dervs and guides ect. I'm not saying they need to be here to take any crap,but why not have a private party for just the "eliete"? why invite us common people? Why rope people off saying you'r not as important? or that you coming to this FF that cost you $450 for a flight,then $700 for a room to be here...not to mention the registration cost or you'r food cost??? </p><p>It cost me about $1800 to come to a FF...I know Im paying way more than most guides,devs and ect...Maybe soe needs to host a party for those who they think are the elite</p><p>But they wont...cause its us players who pay for their roped off partys,its the casual and die hard raiders that pay for the "special people" to have their private roped off areas...</p><p>And we shouldnt get mad? I paid 125$ to attend a meet and greet...and a"grand buffett" dinner which was hot dogs and burgers?</p><p>come on soe............who butters you'r bread?</p>

[Saroc_Luclin]

<cite>Stormcinder wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>/agree.  THIS is the problem.  VIP areas are all about elitism.  That's the whole concept.  Call it a "rest area" or "decompression area" or whatever makes you feel better, but the bottom line is it's about "who's inside" and "who's outside" the rope.  If the "VIPs" are so tired and overworked by talking to fans, perhaps they could...I don't know...go up to their room?  Or arrange a private party in a separate location altogether.  Separating groups at the same party is a disgusting abuse of authority.  If it's an issue for setting up interviews, etc for bloggers, etc. then can't they arrange a "press conference" type meeting specifically for that purpose?</p><p>No.  Because that is not what VIP sections are about.  They are about who is important, and who is not.</p><p>SC</p></blockquote>So instead of having a special area off the main area of the activities, where they are still somewhat approachable, and people have a chance ot meet them. (not as good a chance as a fully open area but still a chance), you're advocating the "VIP's" shouldn't even show up at all/have a separate event entirely removing ALL chances of encountering random people?On the one hand, VIP areas can suck a bit; on the other hand I can understand why it can be good to have them. Others have said some reasons, and I can think of others as well. And while we are paying for the faire, SOE is paying a lot more for it, in the time it takes the CSR's to arrange and set it up, in the lost Development time from the Dev's who attend (They lose basically a week worth of Development Time for Fan Faire, since the Dev's usually have to be there Wednesday to Friday, not counting time preparing Demo's and such), and the costs to ship all their equipment out and back. Considering all that, I can begrudge them setting up a decompression area where the SOE staff can relax a little and not have to be as 'On' as they have to be in the full public. (And as others have mentioned, providing a more private area where Interviews and other discussions can occur).And finally, in the two faires I've been at, though I admit I haven't really sought anyone out, I've never had the impression that SOE people were unapproachable nor hiding. If you wanted to speak to someone in particular, you could usually find them (eventually) or could find someone who could find them.

[imrahil_donnergroll]

<p>So far I haven't been to a FF yet, but this summer I will probably give it a shot. I admit that I would feel a bit miffed when being sort of excluded while on the other hand I gotta pay more than $1000 alone for the flight from Germany, not to mention the hotel room.</p><p>Now if this is "only" a resting area where devs get their well-deserved time without being asked anything, I can completely understand it. I just hope that it's not about a "two-class-society", where "normals" can only see devs for a short period of time until they take flight into the "VIP"-zone.</p>

[Calthine]

<cite>imrahil_donnergroll wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So far I haven't been to a FF yet, but this summer I will probably give it a shot. I admit that I would feel a bit miffed when being sort of excluded while on the other hand I gotta pay more than $1000 alone for the flight from Germany, not to mention the hotel room.</p><p>Now if this is "only" a resting area where devs get their well-deserved time without being asked anything, I can completely understand it. I just hope that it's not about a "two-class-society", where "normals" can only see devs for a short period of time until they take flight into the "VIP"-zone.</p></blockquote>It's not like that at all <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  The devs, IMO, are very accessible, especially considering how busy they are at Fan Faire. 

[SG_01]

Was there anyone in that area all night? I mean I saw it being there, I didn't see anyone in there.

[HeiligHangranate]

<p>I was there until it closed.  At first, there was nobody in the restricted area, but later in the night there were some people there.  There weren't a lot, and it appeared to me that some weren't SOE folks.  It required a special armband to get into that area, and I know they gave them out to other people, such as members of the press, fansites, etc.  Those folks are there to have a good time, but they're also there to work.  Interviewing a dev doesn't work well in the middle of a big, noisy crowd.</p><p>What causes me to discount the OP is that while there were some SOE people in the restricted area, I thought there were a lot more in the crowd.  The group I was in got visits from lots of SOE folks who were just mingling and wandering around.  The same was true of the other FF events.  There was never a problem with having enough SOE folks around.  SOE brings an enormous number of people to the Fan Faires, so there's plenty of opportunity to talk to them.  They're very friendly and willing to talk, even to a complete reprobate like me.</p>

[SG_01]

The ones that got the special armband where the devs, and the influencers that where invited, and flown in by SOE.And I was mostly in the crowd, talking to people, devs, CR, PR, and others.

[Selerra]

Yeah, I didn't recognize anyone in the VIP area when I looked over there.  Instead, I chatted with an EQ dev and a Vanguard dev in the regular area.

[Calthine]

<cite>SG_01 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Was there anyone in that area all night? I mean I saw it being there, I didn't see anyone in there.</blockquote>We chased Gordo out to throw him in the pool (we were looking for Grimwell, and decided that Gordo was his PH).  There were a few people in there, but it wasn't an "us" and "them" thing at all.Seriously, people are making way too much of this.  There was a VIP section at the party in the roof-top bar (the one with the $8 bottles of Blue Moon, OMG, the stuff is like $20 a case wholesale!!), that I never even saw until the party was over.  No one was hiding or being elitist, I met tons of "VIPs".

[Sandain666]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SG_01 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Was there anyone in that area all night? I mean I saw it being there, I didn't see anyone in there.</blockquote>We chased Gordo out to throw him in the pool (we were looking for Grimwell, and decided that Gordo was his PH).  There were a few people in there, but it wasn't an "us" and "them" thing at all.<b>Seriously, people are making way too much of this.</b>  There was a VIP section at the party in the roof-top bar (the one with the $8 bottles of Blue Moon, OMG, the stuff is like $20 a case wholesale!!), that I never even saw until the party was over.  No one was hiding or being elitist, I met tons of "VIPs".</blockquote>AMEN sister! There are much better things we can talk about concerning Fan Faire

[Kela]

<cite>imrahil_donnergroll wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So far I haven't been to a FF yet, but this summer I will probably give it a shot. I admit that I would feel a bit miffed when being sort of excluded while on the other hand I gotta pay more than $1000 alone for the flight from Germany, not to mention the hotel room.</p><p>Now if this is "only" a resting area where devs get their well-deserved time without being asked anything, I can completely understand it. I just hope that it's not about a "two-class-society", where "normals" can only see devs for a short period of time until they take flight into the "VIP"-zone.</p></blockquote><p>Like everyone else said from my experiance last Fan Faire the one place you SHOULD NOT look, when looking for a Specific Dev is the VIP area. The one specific instance I and a group I was with had trouble finding a Dev was at the Pool Party where we where looking for Grimwell, not only did we get a number of devs to help look for him, it turns out that he was not "hiding" at all, but was in the one place we did not think to look, the Line for Karioki Band.</p><p>Also the first "VIP area" was littlerally a Rope across about a 1/4 of a room, that you could easily talk across, in other words it didn't cut you off from the Devs at all, it just reserved chairs for them.</p><p>The second was deeper in, but like everyone else said I did not feel that access to the devs was limited at all. </p>

[Kela]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SG_01 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Was there anyone in that area all night? I mean I saw it being there, I didn't see anyone in there.</blockquote>We chased Gordo out to throw him in the pool (we were looking for Grimwell, and decided that Gordo was his PH).  There were a few people in there, but it wasn't an "us" and "them" thing at all.Seriously, people are making way too much of this.  There was a VIP section at the party in the roof-top bar (the one with the $8 bottles of Blue Moon, OMG, the stuff is like $20 a case wholesale!!), that I never even saw until the party was over.  No one was hiding or being elitist, I met tons of "VIPs".</blockquote><p>Your right this is hardly lack of access. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p><img src="http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n65/kela_012/Fan%20Fair%202007/PoolParty1.jpg" alt="" width="800" height="600" border="0" /></p><p><img src="http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n65/kela_012/Fan%20Fair%202007/PoolParty2.jpg" alt="" width="800" height="600" border="0" /></p>

[princesskitty]

<p>Haven't been to a FF in the past, but from living in Vegas and frequenting clubs, VIP and roped off areas are a Vegas staple. If you want to have a place to sit and a table where all the "important" people are, have at it.  It's called bottle service, where you can spend $300 on a bottle of Grey Goose (velvet rope included), so go that route if it'll make you feel better. </p>

[Ez]

<p>last year at the vodoo party the club was roping off areas and as the night progressed they continued to rope off more and more area. Towards the end of the night they told us we could stay in the roped off area but we would have to buy a bottle. It was at that time we chose to leave as the soe party was pretty much dead and clubgoers were taking over. So we went inside and grabbed a table and hung out some more. Finally a club security guy told us we would have to leave as they were closing that part of the club( we were the only ones sitting in there anyways). I think it was just the way they do things there in vegas and i dont think soe set it up like that. We were in that area the whole time and we were just normal players hanging with the MxO Devs. At the pool party nome of the MxO devs were hanging out in the vip area. At least I dont remember it being that way.  I had a great time at all the events and spent pretty much my whole time there with the devs from MxO, even spent almost every meal with at least one of them, it seemed. Then again, there were only 10 or so mxo players there so we got spoiled by the devs. It was great.</p>

[Waring_McMarrin]

<cite>Stormcinder wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eriol_Ancalagon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Funny... I've never had access to these so called VIP zones... And I've always had plenty of face time with all the SOE devs I can manage to juggle.</p><p>I think it has a lot less to do with being a cheerleader than with treating other human beings with respect.</p><p>I'm sorry you feel excluded somehow, but I'm guessing that it might have a lot less to do with the dev teams only interacting with "elite" people and more to do with not wanting to be constantly put down and berated for trying to do their jobs.</p></blockquote>Hey, I had lunch with some developers (Lotus and Saavedra in fact, and yes I have pictures), and hell a friend even got Grimwell's number, so it's not like it was a huge problem for me getting "face time" when needed (alcohol helps btw, and considering the drink prices at the Rio, that's no surprise (Just ask Kendricke about that) ), but in the public events having such areas just felt like a huge rejection of most of the community.  Yes we don't run fansites, and yes we might not have as huge a voice as some others, but we were THERE, and that place should be the equalizer of voices, not a place where the division becomes even more apparent.</blockquote><p>/agree.  THIS is the problem.  VIP areas are all about elitism.  That's the whole concept.  Call it a "rest area" or "decompression area" or whatever makes you feel better, but the bottom line is it's about "who's inside" and "who's outside" the rope.  If the "VIPs" are so tired and overworked by talking to fans, perhaps they could...I don't know...go up to their room?  Or arrange a private party in a separate location altogether.  Separating groups at the same party is a disgusting abuse of authority.  If it's an issue for setting up interviews, etc for bloggers, etc. then can't they arrange a "press conference" type meeting specifically for that purpose?</p><p>No.  Because that is not what VIP sections are about.  They are about who is important, and who is not.</p><p>SC</p></blockquote>So it would be better for them to leave the entire event rather then just step away to a private area to take a quick break?