Double Conversion [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Lethlian

11-02-2012, 05:52 AM

Is a bad idea and should not be allowable. (imo)For the most part, you the developers have spent a great deal of time (especially with each subsequent test patch update note to modify the new prestige abilities you have developed for all the classes)Honestly the new prestige abilities need to have their own seperate tab, completely un-associated with the present in game prestige line.Allowing the new prestige abilities to be linked with the current prestige tree we have is extremely limiting to all players option(s), not only to mention that most (albeit not all) but still most classes are simply going to go with double conversion, as is out matches / makes all the new prestiges undesireable. (which is a dang shame tbh) Not only to mention that it also forces players hands to either do one of three things. Go all left / go all right, or take neither choice and just leaveing double conversion with 1 point in either tree afterwards. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" />Allowing players to have two separate prestige tabs/trees at least allows for more mixing and matching, as well as more customizing, which I think ultimately the majority of players want. (but who knows, I could very well be wrong /shrug)Regardless please give it an honest thought.Respectfully,Lethlian

slippery

11-02-2012, 11:10 AM

I don't agree that most people will take both top lines. However, the bottom shouldn't be attached to the top.

Twyxx

11-02-2012, 12:17 PM

Or we could just get lines that are attractive enough that we don't choose double conversion.

Shotneedle

11-02-2012, 12:47 PM

The only classes I really see taking double conversion (for raiding) right now are:Ranger, Beastlord, Brigand, Conjuror, Necromancer.Mystics too but mystic changes are coming so meh.Edit: Nevermind on Assassins lol.

shannontroester

11-03-2012, 12:44 AM

uh, and coercers ever since they ruined Ether Balance (unless todays patch fixed something about it) and Mind Control has always been pretty bad

Lethlian

11-05-2012, 03:29 PM

First off, thanks for the excellent feedback so far. The bug reports, detailed explanations, and suggestions have been awesome.I also wanted to update you on our progress. Up until the end of last week, we spent most of our time trying to improve the lines that would have been difficult to balance because the core mechanics just weren't very fun or useful no matter what the numbers were. There's still some pretty significant tweaking to do for a few classes, but the complete re-do's are finished. Now, we're really focused on getting the numbers right, and as you guys know, they're pretty far off in some cases.The patch today is intended to bring the numbers in line for Assassins, Beastlords, Rangers, Warlocks, and Wizards. The goal is to have the other Mages and Scouts ready for the patch tomorrow, Priests Wednesday, and Fighters Thursday. Any number of things could ruin that schedule, so please don't be offended if (perhaps when?) we fail to adhere to it. Lastly, double conversion specs are intended to be the more versatile option. For example, a Fighter might want some DPS and some tanking abilities. If everything is balanced as intended, classes with two DPS lines should always find that choosing one line yields a greater output. Thanks again to everyone who has helped test these abilities! -SmedHere.......We........Go.........Personally I don't think SOE is going to be able to fix the most broken class (rangers) in the past five years with one fell swoop, let alone make numerous classes future prestige lines more desirable then double conversion. Mad props for assuming they can though. I still think double conversion is a terrible and horrible idea and that if *even* ONE class has to choose it, that its one class TOO MANY.The trees should of been seperated / independent from each other from the get-go. The choices should of simply been if you wanted to go Left then right or Right then left or left and left or lastly right and right, those should of been the options. Double conversion is terrrible, terrible, terrible and its going to be (imo) the lasting botched mark of contention for what seems to be an overall good expansion.And if I'm wrong and they fix *everything* like Smed believes will happen, then I'll come here bump my message and admit I was wrong. But I get the feeling that won't happen.Respectfully,Lethlian

KenCoop

11-06-2012, 05:42 AM

<cite>Lethlian wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lastly, double conversion specs are intended to be the more versatile option. For example, a Fighter might want some DPS and some tanking abilities. If everything is balanced as intended, classes with two DPS lines should always find that choosing one line yields a greater output. Thanks again to everyone who has helped test these abilities! -SmedThe trees should of been seperated / independent from each other from the get-go. The choices should of simply been if you wanted to go Left then right or Right then left or left and left or lastly right and right, those should of been the options. Double conversion is terrrible, terrible, terrible and its going to be (imo) the lasting botched mark of contention for what seems to be an overall good expansion.</blockquote>QFE. (added bold to Smed's comment)Sorry to snip what you said Lethlian (only did so because if not people would be like wtfomg tl:dr), but I would disagree with you on that point. I hope what Smed says does make it to live, because at this point unless they make more drastic changes to the trees I see many classes taking the double conversion. I don't think it is a good thing, but when the devs nerf the good things out of a tree and add in skills or damage that no one is really asking for I would not like to be forced to pick between two bad trees. My main is an Assassin, and as Rippt just posted tonight in our class forum the double conversion blows away either line.On what Smed said that I reposted above, I would wonder if he got that message across to the dev team. I know for a few classes it was accurate when beta launched that one line was better that the double conversion, but after numerous sets of patches it is now not true (unless wizzys and assassins aren't considered to have two dps lines, which I am pretty sure they are...).When they take out good skills that players would value like hp debuffs or instacast fusions with resets, and replace them with severe downgrades, it makes the players reprioritize what the best spec would be.For some classes with amazing trees, I can no doubt see why they would go with one tree over another. At this point the message is that they are done making fundamental changes to the trees, and I would not label all class trees as amazing. If the are not going to change the trees further, then I don't see why we should advocate against the double conversion at this point, as for many classes it's a really good option. I would have hoped the devs would have made great and interesting end lines that players really wanted, but they did not in all cases (see assassin right endline and compare to bruiser ca one hundred hand punch....similar??...lol, and really for and endline ability, /yawn).While unimaginative and kinda boring to be getting a new xpac and simply hoping you'll just be able to use what is currently available, I think that is the position that several classes are in. If they are not going to change the trees anymore at this point really, unless they significantly boost either side much more so than they were after the Monday patch (for my class at least), I am hoping they leave the double conversion in place.

feldon30

11-06-2012, 02:04 PM

I think it's funny that a post by Xelgad (EQ2 lead mechanics) is being attributed to the president of SOE. <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=523182" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=523182</a>