Is this against EQ II's terms of use?

[bppomerleau]

<p>ok i asked to join a guild >this guild was recruiting but the guild recruiter said i had i pay 2 platnium as an admission fee so i did he invited me into the guild > 2 minutes later i got a /tell from the recruiter saying "thank you for your generious contribution to our guild, we wish you well in your future endeavors " >then he kicks me from the guild!!!</p><p>is this against the code of conduct for the game?</p><p>it wasnt just him i tried /tell the guild master and few top ranking guild officers> they ignored the /tells for about 2 hours untill i got a /tell from them saying similar things ill just post what the guildmaster said " if you want to join our guild please send 3 platnium to me via mail"</p><p>so in all pretty much the entire higher ups of the guild are in on this scam !!!</p><p>is there a way to have them banned and the guild dissolved ?</p>

[SteelPiston]

<p>I don't think it's against any specific rule, as I've never heard of a guild charging a fee before. Unfortunately, I think they were having fun with a new player at your expense.</p><p>Two platinum is nothing to a guild. Guilds and guild members make thousand of plat from raiding and running instances. They should have just given you the 2P back, once they had their fun. It's nothing to them, but important to you as a new player without much money.</p><p>Sadly, if you broadcast the event in the 1-9 channels, you'll just get laughed at. Hopefully the guild leader will give you it back.</p><p>-If you mention your toon name and server, i'm sure some good Samaritan will mail you some platinum. Most folks in the game are really good natured with more than they need.</p>

[Seffrid]

<p>Assuming it happened as described,  then if that isn't scamming I don't know what is. It's certainly not having fun at a new player's expense, it's ripping him off. As such it ought to be acted on by a GM.</p>

[Elebu]

<p>At the very least it's probably a violation of the PNP (play nice policy) and might be considered a scam by CS.  The best way to find out though is to petition it.</p><p>For new players 2 plat can be hard to come by (and take awhile) and I'm willling to bet that SOE doesn't want new and/or less experienced players ripped off and driven off by such juvenile behavior.  I mean, looking at the pop numbers anymore, I think it's a safe bet that they would have a 'talk' with one or more members of that guild should it show up on a CS ticket and get plat returned to whomever they pulled this on.</p><p>In the future, just never pay anything to join a guild.  I've only been asked once to donate and it was 10 plat to a hardcore raid guild I'd joined (that didn't need the plat) and then I think it was more a show of committment.  Like, them not knowing me, I suspect the 10p for new recruits was more a facilities charge for those that wanted access to the amenities without actually doing any of the heavy lifting/raiding.</p><p>Report these dirtbags, get your plat back, and then go join one of the many honest guilds staffed with good people that exist in EQ2.</p>

[Jrral]

<p>I don't think it's against any particular rule, but it's probably a violation of general policies. The key will be to have taken a /report of the incident so it's recorded server-side. If you did, you can probably /petition it and CS will take some action. You may only see your plat returned, but if that happens that guild and it's members have a nice big black mark against them in the ledger.</p><p>If you didn't take a /report then you should still /petition, but without the /report it's harder for CS to track down the incident in the logs and they're less likely to be able to do anything. Your logs or screenshots don't count, they're too easily doctored whereas the server-side logs can't be altered by players.</p>

[bppomerleau]

<p><cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't think it's against any particular rule, but it's probably a violation of general policies. The key will be to have taken a /report of the incident so it's recorded server-side. If you did, you can probably /petition it and CS will take some action. You may only see your plat returned, but if that happens that guild and it's members have a nice big black mark against them in the ledger.</p><p>If you didn't take a /report then you should still /petition, but without the /report it's harder for CS to track down the incident in the logs and they're less likely to be able to do anything. Your logs or screenshots don't count, they're too easily doctored whereas the server-side logs can't be altered by players.</p></blockquote><p>well i petitioned it now nothing to do but wait!!!</p>

[Brigh]

<p>Sounds like you joined the EQ II arm of the Goonswarm Federation.</p>

[Nightshade]

<p><cite>Brigh wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Sounds like you joined the EQ II arm of the Goonswarm Federation.</p></blockquote><p>Hello fellow player of EVE Online. ^_^ Yah I haven't run into Goonswarm but I've been poising myself to fund the war against them.</p><p>Really hate people who act like this online, stealing money from others just for five seconds of amusement. Seems particularly out of place on a game like Everquest 2 -- it's not like this is a hardcore shoot-em-up that attracts 14 year olds!</p>

[Loch]

<p><cite>Dagodslayer@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>ok i asked to join a guild >this guild was recruiting but the guild recruiter said i had i pay 2 platnium as an admission fee so i did he invited me into the guild > 2 minutes later i got a /tell from the recruiter saying "thank you for your generious contribution to our guild, we wish you well in your future endeavors " >then he kicks me from the guild!!!</p><p>is this against the code of conduct for the game?</p><p>it wasnt just him i tried /tell the guild master and few top ranking guild officers> they ignored the /tells for about 2 hours untill i got a /tell from them saying similar things ill just post what the guildmaster said " if you want to join our guild please send 3 platnium to me via mail"</p><p>so in all pretty much the entire higher ups of the guild are in on this scam !!!</p><p>is there a way to have them banned and the guild dissolved ?</p></blockquote><p>What server are you on?</p>

[Orthureon]

<p>Sorry to laugh, but that is kind of amusing. Although they should have given the plat back sorta like a "Punked" joke. Rule of thumb most reputable guilds will NEVER charge anything for a membership. The only thing they look for is specific classes, masters, aa, and skill. Keep that in mind next time.</p>

[ZachSpastic]

<p>In EQ2 a trade is a trade. You gave someone 2 plat and that's all the GMs will know. I doubt they will take any action against the guild in question. Consider that 2 plat to be your tuition in the school of Don't Be In A Rush To Join A Guild Without Getting To Know The Members First.</p>

[Deago]

<p> I mean really as stated just laugh it off because anything else will be in vain.  You will win if you remain jolly about the situation and pray for the loser that stole what amounts to pennies nowdays.</p><p>Good luck!</p>

[Koleg]

<p>This would have been a problem back in the day, when plat was actually hard to come by.  These days most players wouldn't go one zone out of thier way to pick up 2 plat.</p><p>Go sell a few low level shines or do 2 TS writs and you'll get your 2 plat back and then some.</p>

[Levatino]

<p>then again it's still stealing and it should be punished.</p><p>I find morality in games becomes lower and lower, what's next someone hacks your account and robs you empty; the response is well since it's ftp just make another account?</p>

[retro_guy]

<p>If you have no luck getting your plat back I'm quite happy to roll a toon on your server and make a bit of plat for you.</p><p>I quite enjoy starting a new character and seeing how quickly I can build up a bit of cash.</p><p>PM me your toon name and server and I'll hook you up this weekend.</p>

[ZachSpastic]

<p><cite>Levatino wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>then again it's still stealing and it should be punished.</p><p>I find morality in games becomes lower and lower, what's next someone hacks your account and robs you empty; the response is well since it's ftp just make another account?</p></blockquote><p>I don't see where the OP included a copy of the signed guild membership agreement in his post.</p>

[Seffrid]

<p><cite>ZachSpastic wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Levatino wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>then again it's still stealing and it should be punished.</p><p>I find morality in games becomes lower and lower, what's next someone hacks your account and robs you empty; the response is well since it's ftp just make another account?</p></blockquote><p>I don't see where the OP included a copy of the signed guild membership agreement in his post.</p></blockquote><p>I don't see where in the Code of Common Decency it states he would need to.</p>

[Koleg]

<p><cite>Seffrid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ZachSpastic wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Levatino wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>then again it's still stealing and it should be punished.</p><p>I find morality in games becomes lower and lower, what's next someone hacks your account and robs you empty; the response is well since it's ftp just make another account?</p></blockquote><p>I don't see where the OP included a copy of the signed guild membership agreement in his post.</p></blockquote><p>I don't see where in the Code of Common Decency it states he would need to.</p></blockquote><p>If you're all going to be poo-house lawyers crying about justice and decency then you should at least have the decency to withhold execution with only one side of the story.  We'll be talking about banning people for KS'ing on double XP weekends next at this rate.  Get over yourselves and move on.</p>

[yohann koldheart]

<p>nobody was scammed, it wasent stealing. the player willingly gave him the 2 plat,nobody logged his account and did the trade for him ,he did it all by himself.</p><p>He didn't trade it by accident or anything, if the guy didn't think this was a ridiculous request from a new guild then LoL at him. as posted earlier in this thread take it as a learning experience and move on.</p>

[Kabahl]

<p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>nobody was scammed, it wasent stealing. the player willingly gave him the 2 plat,nobody logged his account and did the trade for him ,he did it all by himself.</p><p>He didn't trade it by accident or anything, if the guy didn't think this was a ridiculous request from a new guild then LoL at him. as posted earlier in this thread take it as a learning experience and move on.</p></blockquote><p>So when I tell that little old lady from Pasadena, "Hey, I've got $500,000 dollars in a Swiss bank account, but I can't get it until I pay a bank fee of $5,000 dollars.  If you give me $5,000, I'll be able to access my money and I'll give you 10% of the total, $50,000.  What do you say?"  And she actually GIVES me the money . . . and I cut and run, by your logic that's not a scam at all.  she willingly gave me the $5,000 dollars, I didn't log into her bank account and trade it for her, she did it all by herself.</p><p>She didn't trade it by accident, either, if the lady didn't think this was a ridiculous request from a person then LoL at her.  It was a learning experience, move on . . . </p><p>Now, as was said earlier, this IS only one side of a story, and 2 plat really isn't a lot at all.  I have no idea if this story is real, if it's a troll post, or what.  But to say is ISN'T a scam? <span style="font-size: medium;"> IF</span> this story is true (a big IF there) the guild (as in my example above) had no intention of doing what they said they were going to do.  They didn't consider him for a guild position, they took his money and ran.  It's the very definition of scam . . .</p>

[zehly]

I should think that interpretation and administration of the Universal Access Agreement, the Everquest 2 Code of Conduct, and the Everquest 2 Play Nice Policy falls ultimately on the shoulders of SOE (GMs/CS, the leads, and managers). So what we (myself included) think does or does not constitute fraud or scamming is likely irrelevent. I can tell you that SOE will take deliberate misrepresentation, harassment, and the interference in others' game enjoyment seriously. While the lack of a /report may burden the investigation, it is not a lost cause. If the guild has a record of negative behavior, this could be the perverbial "nail in the coffin". The EQ2 Reimbursement policy and Code of Conduct does in fact hold guild officers and leaders responsible for actions of the guild. Joke or not, it's nothing a respectable guild should or would do.

[ZachSpastic]

<p><cite>Charn@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>nobody was scammed, it wasent stealing. the player willingly gave him the 2 plat,nobody logged his account and did the trade for him ,he did it all by himself.</p><p>He didn't trade it by accident or anything, if the guy didn't think this was a ridiculous request from a new guild then LoL at him. as posted earlier in this thread take it as a learning experience and move on.</p></blockquote><p>So when I tell that little old lady from Pasadena, "Hey, I've got $500,000 dollars in a Swiss bank account, but I can't get it until I pay a bank fee of $5,000 dollars.  If you give me $5,000, I'll be able to access my money and I'll give you 10% of the total, $50,000.  What do you say?"  And she actually GIVES me the money . . . and I cut and run, by your logic that's not a scam at all.  she willingly gave me the $5,000 dollars, I didn't log into her bank account and trade it for her, she did it all by herself.</p><p>She didn't trade it by accident, either, if the lady didn't think this was a ridiculous request from a person then LoL at her.  It was a learning experience, move on . . . </p><p>Now, as was said earlier, this IS only one side of a story, and 2 plat really isn't a lot at all.  I have no idea if this story is real, if it's a troll post, or what.  But to say is ISN'T a scam? <span style="font-size: medium;"> IF</span> this story is true (a big IF there) the guild (as in my example above) had no intention of doing what they said they were going to do.  They didn't consider him for a guild position, they took his money and ran.  It's the very definition of scam . . .</p></blockquote><p><cite>zehly wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I should think that interpretation and administration of the Universal Access Agreement, the Everquest 2 Code of Conduct, and the Everquest 2 Play Nice Policy falls ultimately on the shoulders of SOE (GMs/CS, the leads, and managers). So what we (myself included) think does or does not constitute fraud or scamming is likely irrelevent. I can tell you that SOE will take deliberate misrepresentation, harassment, and the interference in others' game enjoyment seriously. While the lack of a /report may burden the investigation, it is not a lost cause. If the guild has a record of negative behavior, this could be the perverbial "nail in the coffin". The EQ2 Reimbursement policy and Code of Conduct does in fact hold guild officers and leaders responsible for actions of the guild. Joke or not, it's nothing a respectable guild should or would do.</blockquote><p>Do either of you realize that Norrath is not real and that EQ2 is a video game? And, as I previously stated, in EQ2 a trade is a trade. The GMs have always been very clear about that.</p>

[agnott]

<p><cite>ZachSpastic wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Do either of you realize that Norrath is not real and that EQ2 is a video game? And, as I previously stated, in EQ2 a trade is a trade. The GMs have always been very clear about that.</p></blockquote><p>You are real.</p><p>And "everything" you say and do in EQ2, video games, blogs, Twitter, facebook and the internet in general can be actionable.</p><p>There are "real" people scamming other "real" people  .... to see it any other way is foolish.</p>

[Zygar]

<p><cite>agnott wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ZachSpastic wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Do either of you realize that Norrath is not real and that EQ2 is a video game? And, as I previously stated, in EQ2 a trade is a trade. The GMs have always been very clear about that.</p></blockquote><p>You are real.</p><p>And "everything" you say and do in EQ2, video games, blogs, Twitter, facebook and the internet in general can be actionable.</p><p>There are "real" people scamming other "real" people  .... to see it any other way is foolish.</p></blockquote><p>As much as I hate to see people treated this way, it would be hard to place this in the league of other scams, where something was offered and not delivered. If you were looking at it as a "contract', then the terms would be this. "You can join our guild if you give us 2p". Person agrees and gives 2p and joins the guild. That's the trade. Anything after that is not considered if it wasn't stated in the original offer. The person gave the plat freely and actually joined the guild. Is it deceitful and morally wrong? Yes. Should it be reported? I think so. This was a lesson learned by the OP and I'm glad it made the forums so if anyone else would think about doing it they could see what happened here.</p><p>tl;dr</p><p>Guildies are horrible peeps, but don't see a rule violation.</p>

[Levatino]

<p><cite>ZachSpastic wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Charn@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>nobody was scammed, it wasent stealing. the player willingly gave him the 2 plat,nobody logged his account and did the trade for him ,he did it all by himself.</p><p>He didn't trade it by accident or anything, if the guy didn't think this was a ridiculous request from a new guild then LoL at him. as posted earlier in this thread take it as a learning experience and move on.</p></blockquote><p>So when I tell that little old lady from Pasadena, "Hey, I've got $500,000 dollars in a Swiss bank account, but I can't get it until I pay a bank fee of $5,000 dollars.  If you give me $5,000, I'll be able to access my money and I'll give you 10% of the total, $50,000.  What do you say?"  And she actually GIVES me the money . . . and I cut and run, by your logic that's not a scam at all.  she willingly gave me the $5,000 dollars, I didn't log into her bank account and trade it for her, she did it all by herself.</p><p>She didn't trade it by accident, either, if the lady didn't think this was a ridiculous request from a person then LoL at her.  It was a learning experience, move on . . . </p><p>Now, as was said earlier, this IS only one side of a story, and 2 plat really isn't a lot at all.  I have no idea if this story is real, if it's a troll post, or what.  But to say is ISN'T a scam? <span style="font-size: medium;"> IF</span> this story is true (a big IF there) the guild (as in my example above) had no intention of doing what they said they were going to do.  They didn't consider him for a guild position, they took his money and ran.  It's the very definition of scam . . .</p></blockquote><p><cite>zehly wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I should think that interpretation and administration of the Universal Access Agreement, the Everquest 2 Code of Conduct, and the Everquest 2 Play Nice Policy falls ultimately on the shoulders of SOE (GMs/CS, the leads, and managers). So what we (myself included) think does or does not constitute fraud or scamming is likely irrelevent. I can tell you that SOE will take deliberate misrepresentation, harassment, and the interference in others' game enjoyment seriously. While the lack of a /report may burden the investigation, it is not a lost cause. If the guild has a record of negative behavior, this could be the perverbial "nail in the coffin". The EQ2 Reimbursement policy and Code of Conduct does in fact hold guild officers and leaders responsible for actions of the guild. Joke or not, it's nothing a respectable guild should or would do.</blockquote><p>Do either of you realize that Norrath is not real and that EQ2 is a video game? And, as I previously stated, in EQ2 a trade is a trade. The GMs have always been very clear about that.</p></blockquote><p>a trade is a trade yes, but tell me what did the OP get?</p>

[Avirodar]

<p><cite>Levatino wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>a trade is a trade yes, but tell me what did the OP get?</p></blockquote><p>What did the OP get? An invite to the guild, as per the agreement made before the trade occured. Did the agreement include how long the invitation was valid for? Probably not... And guess what happened?All in all, I hope the OP learned a valuable lesson from this. A lesson that will aid them not just in MMO's, but also in the real world. Always do the research. Ask for the details. Do not assume "best case scenario" or the inevitable (burn) will happen. If something seems wrong, it very well may be. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Guilds asking for admission fees? I'd be very hesitant to persue that option on any game.The real cost, will be if the OP does not gain wisdom from this experience. I do not wish misfortune upon the OP. The best thing I can suggest is they learn, move on, find a real guild, and gain thousands of plat.</p>

[thephantomposter]

<p><cite>Zygar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>agnott wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ZachSpastic wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Do either of you realize that Norrath is not real and that EQ2 is a video game? And, as I previously stated, in EQ2 a trade is a trade. The GMs have always been very clear about that.</p></blockquote><p>You are real.</p><p>And "everything" you say and do in EQ2, video games, blogs, Twitter, facebook and the internet in general can be actionable.</p><p>There are "real" people scamming other "real" people  .... to see it any other way is foolish.</p></blockquote><p>As much as I hate to see people treated this way, it would be hard to place this in the league of other scams, where something was offered and not delivered. If you were looking at it as a "contract', then the terms would be this. "You can join our guild if you give us 2p". Person agrees and gives 2p and joins the guild. That's the trade. Anything after that is not considered if it wasn't stated in the original offer. The person gave the plat freely and actually joined the guild. Is it deceitful and morally wrong? Yes. Should it be reported? I think so. This was a lesson learned by the OP and I'm glad it made the forums so if anyone else would think about doing it they could see what happened here.</p><p>tl;dr</p><p>Guildies are horrible peeps, but don't see a rule violation.</p></blockquote><p>That reminds me of the ebay scam where someone bought and xbox box. <a href="http://www.igniq.com/2009/02/man-pays-800-for-empty-xbox-360-box-on-ebay">http://www.igniq.com/2009/02/man-pa...360-box-on-ebay</a></p><p>But your right, 2 plat to join guild, services were rendered. Luckily one collection from commonlands or antonica could get you double that back in a minute.</p><p>Still pretty shady and very bad ethics IF the story is real. I can't see someone doing that unless they were upest with their guild and wanted to tarnish the name before they left the guild. But then again who sells an empty box for 800 bucks?</p>

[yohann koldheart]

<p><cite>Levatino wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ZachSpastic wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Charn@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>nobody was scammed, it wasent stealing. the player willingly gave him the 2 plat,nobody logged his account and did the trade for him ,he did it all by himself.</p><p>He didn't trade it by accident or anything, if the guy didn't think this was a ridiculous request from a new guild then LoL at him. as posted earlier in this thread take it as a learning experience and move on.</p></blockquote><p>So when I tell that little old lady from Pasadena, "Hey, I've got $500,000 dollars in a Swiss bank account, but I can't get it until I pay a bank fee of $5,000 dollars.  If you give me $5,000, I'll be able to access my money and I'll give you 10% of the total, $50,000.  What do you say?"  And she actually GIVES me the money . . . and I cut and run, by your logic that's not a scam at all.  she willingly gave me the $5,000 dollars, I didn't log into her bank account and trade it for her, she did it all by herself.</p><p>She didn't trade it by accident, either, if the lady didn't think this was a ridiculous request from a person then LoL at her.  It was a learning experience, move on . . . </p><p>Now, as was said earlier, this IS only one side of a story, and 2 plat really isn't a lot at all.  I have no idea if this story is real, if it's a troll post, or what.  But to say is ISN'T a scam? <span style="font-size: medium;"> IF</span> this story is true (a big IF there) the guild (as in my example above) had no intention of doing what they said they were going to do.  They didn't consider him for a guild position, they took his money and ran.  It's the very definition of scam . . .</p></blockquote><p><cite>zehly wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I should think that interpretation and administration of the Universal Access Agreement, the Everquest 2 Code of Conduct, and the Everquest 2 Play Nice Policy falls ultimately on the shoulders of SOE (GMs/CS, the leads, and managers). So what we (myself included) think does or does not constitute fraud or scamming is likely irrelevent. I can tell you that SOE will take deliberate misrepresentation, harassment, and the interference in others' game enjoyment seriously. While the lack of a /report may burden the investigation, it is not a lost cause. If the guild has a record of negative behavior, this could be the perverbial "nail in the coffin". The EQ2 Reimbursement policy and Code of Conduct does in fact hold guild officers and leaders responsible for actions of the guild. Joke or not, it's nothing a respectable guild should or would do.</blockquote><p>Do either of you realize that Norrath is not real and that EQ2 is a video game? And, as I previously stated, in EQ2 a trade is a trade. The GMs have always been very clear about that.</p></blockquote><p>a trade is a trade yes, but tell me what did the OP get?</p></blockquote><p>as the OP himselft posted he got to give the guild a 2 plat donation. </p>

[Koleg]

<p><cite>Charn@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>nobody was scammed, it wasent stealing. the player willingly gave him the 2 plat,nobody logged his account and did the trade for him ,he did it all by himself.</p><p>He didn't trade it by accident or anything, if the guy didn't think this was a ridiculous request from a new guild then LoL at him. as posted earlier in this thread take it as a learning experience and move on.</p></blockquote><p>So when I tell that little old lady from Pasadena, "Hey, I've got $500,000 dollars in a Swiss bank account, but I can't get it until I pay a bank fee of $5,000 dollars.  If you give me $5,000, I'll be able to access my money and I'll give you 10% of the total, $50,000.  What do you say?"  And she actually GIVES me the money . . . and I cut and run, by your logic that's not a scam at all.  she willingly gave me the $5,000 dollars, I didn't log into her bank account and trade it for her, she did it all by herself.</p><p>She didn't trade it by accident, either, if the lady didn't think this was a ridiculous request from a person then LoL at her.  It was a learning experience, move on . . . </p><p>Now, as was said earlier, this IS only one side of a story, and 2 plat really isn't a lot at all.  I have no idea if this story is real, if it's a troll post, or what.  But to say is ISN'T a scam? <span style="font-size: medium;"> IF</span> this story is true (a big IF there) the guild (as in my example above) had no intention of doing what they said they were going to do.  They didn't consider him for a guild position, they took his money and ran.  It's the very definition of scam . . .</p></blockquote><p>^^ That is an example of a Scam.  There is a promise made and not fullfilled.</p><p>It is funny that those in support of the OP's 2p lose would never consider that the OP might have violated said guilds code of conduct and was /kicked becasue of it.  Did the OP join a 'family' guild and use fowl lauguage?  Could they have harrassed some of the female members?  Perhaps they took unauthorized items out of the guild bank or pocketed a few guild decorations under the guise of 'planning to decorate'.</p><p>Or perhase THIS thread itself is the actual scam... wouldn't it be hugely hilarious IF the OP dreamed up this scam: to come and QQ on the forums about being scammed out of 2p, then have kind and supportive people offer to replace it out of charity.  That by itself, 2 plat, from a large number of people could add up to a lot of plat.  I know that I've seen people go to jail IRL becasue they held a benefit and told people they had cancer only to pocket the money to enjoy in thier non-cancer life.</p>

[Regolas]

I think it's disgusting a guild is doing this and it's wrong that some people are trying to justify it by the fact it's 2pp. As a guild member, you bring in a percentage of the status points you earn to the guild as "payment". For new guilds starting up, I can see how they may be after cash to buy amenities but getting that by scamming innocent people who just wanted to be part of said guild is very low. I got invited to my guild and have never been asked for anything. In fact the founders have over the years gone out of their way to help me, and over time I've contributed back through choice and choice only. I would never join a guild that demands an admission fee. If they really need plat then they're not going to be a very useful guild either because they have little amenities or run by idiots.

[ZachSpastic]

<p><cite>agnott wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ZachSpastic wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Do either of you realize that Norrath is not real and that EQ2 is a video game? And, as I previously stated, in EQ2 a trade is a trade. The GMs have always been very clear about that.</p></blockquote><p>You are re</p><p>And "everything" you say and do in EQ2, video games, blogs, Twitter, facebook and the internet in general can be actionable.</p><p>There are "real" people scamming other "real" people  .... to see it any other way is foolish.</p></blockquote><p>The character you play is not real. The pretend money in the game is not real. Player guilds are not real. Unless someone is using EQ2 as a means to cause real world harm to another person, then the things you do while playing in EQ2 are not actionable. Anything you do over the internet that does not cause any real world harm to another person is not actionable.</p><p>What real world harm was done to the OP? Did he suffer the loss of real world property as the result of the exchange? Has he been physically assaulted or is he under threat of physical assault as a result of the exchange? Did the player who received the pretend money from the OP defame or libel the OP in the course of the exchange or take any actions subsequent to the exchange that defamed or libeled the OP? What court of law do you think has jurisdiction over the crime you think has been committed? What statutes do you think apply to this case? Especially considering that SOE owns the rights to the characters involved and any vitual goods or currencies attributed to those characters.</p>

[zehly]

<p><cite>ZachSpastic wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The character you play is not real. The pretend money in the game is not real. Player guilds are not real. Unless someone is using EQ2 as a means to cause real world harm to another person, then the things you do while playing in EQ2 are not actionable. <strong>Anything you do over the internet that does not cause any real world harm to another person is not actionable.</strong></p><p>What real world harm was done to the OP? Did he suffer the loss of real world property as the result of the exchange? Has he been physically assaulted or is he under threat of physical assault as a result of the exchange? Did the player who received the pretend money from the OP defame or libel the OP in the course of the exchange or take any actions subsequent to the exchange that defamed or libeled the OP? What court of law do you think has jurisdiction over the crime you think has been committed? What statutes do you think apply to this case? Especially considering that SOE owns the rights to the characters involved and any vitual goods or currencies attributed to those characters.</p></blockquote><p>This is a false dichotomy.</p>

[Senvares]

<p>characters of the game may not be real but the people who play the characters are real, you say oh just because this is the internet that nothing ca be done which indeed you are wrong about that you see it everywhere on the news yahoo news and people are prosecuted for it but the conditions are considerably different.</p>

[Gisalaani]

<p><span style="font-size: small;">Some of the responses to the OP defy common sense.  The fact that some of you do not display moral outrage at this kind of behavior (taking the facts as presented as true) is shameful.  It is exactly this kind of passive acceptance of bad behavior and even worse the active cheering it on that causes it to continue.  This guild and these people running it should be run out of the game.  If your idea of a good time is to rip off the new and unknowledgeable, then you are not fit for social interaction.  You are anti-social at the least and I question the values these people were raised with.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;">"Anything you do over the internet that does not cause real harm to another person is not actionable."  Baloney. Playing an MMO is a contract between you and the company behind it.  It's their rules and they define what is actionable.  It is plain bad business sense to allow new people to be ripped off and possibly chased out of the game. People playing their own version of evil and who are out to destroy another's good time aren't playing EQ2 and don't need to be here.</span></p><p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; color: #d2c5a9; background-color: #2a2623;"> </p></p>

[ZachSpastic]

<p><cite>zehly wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ZachSpastic wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The character you play is not real. The pretend money in the game is not real. Player guilds are not real. Unless someone is using EQ2 as a means to cause real world harm to another person, then the things you do while playing in EQ2 are not actionable. <strong>Anything you do over the internet that does not cause any real world harm to another person is not actionable.</strong></p><p>What real world harm was done to the OP? Did he suffer the loss of real world property as the result of the exchange? Has he been physically assaulted or is he under threat of physical assault as a result of the exchange? Did the player who received the pretend money from the OP defame or libel the OP in the course of the exchange or take any actions subsequent to the exchange that defamed or libeled the OP? What court of law do you think has jurisdiction over the crime you think has been committed? What statutes do you think apply to this case? Especially considering that SOE owns the rights to the characters involved and any vitual goods or currencies attributed to those characters.</p></blockquote><p>This is a false dichotomy.</p></blockquote><p>Either you don't understand the meaning of that phrase, or you completely fail to grasp the concepts involved in this thread.</p><p><cite>Senvares wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>characters of the game may not be real but the people who play the characters are real, you say oh just because this is the internet that nothing ca be done which indeed you are wrong about that you see it everywhere on the news yahoo news and people are prosecuted for it but the conditions are considerably different.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, the conditions for taking legal action are considerably different from the subject of this thread.</p><p><cite>Gisalaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small;">Some of the responses to the OP defy common sense.  The fact that some of you do not display moral outrage at this kind of behavior (taking the facts as presented as true) is shameful.  It is exactly this kind of passive acceptance of bad behavior and even worse the active cheering it on that causes it to continue.  This guild and these people running it should be run out of the game.  If your idea of a good time is to rip off the new and unknowledgeable, then you are not fit for social interaction.  You are anti-social at the least and I question the values these people were raised with.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;">"Anything you do over the internet that does not cause real harm to another person is not actionable."  Baloney. Playing an MMO is a contract between you and the company behind it.  It's their rules and they define what is actionable.  It is plain bad business sense to allow new people to be ripped off and possibly chased out of the game. People playing their own version of evil and who are out to destroy another's good time aren't playing EQ2 and don't need to be here.</span></p></blockquote><p>You should take a few moments to educate yourself about what it means for something to be actionable. You may also want to learn a little bit about contracts.</p>

[Mermut]

<p><cite>ZachSpastic wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gisalaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small;">Some of the responses to the OP defy common sense.  The fact that some of you do not display moral outrage at this kind of behavior (taking the facts as presented as true) is shameful.  It is exactly this kind of passive acceptance of bad behavior and even worse the active cheering it on that causes it to continue.  This guild and these people running it should be run out of the game.  If your idea of a good time is to rip off the new and unknowledgeable, then you are not fit for social interaction.  You are anti-social at the least and I question the values these people were raised with.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;">"Anything you do over the internet that does not cause real harm to another person is not actionable."  Baloney. Playing an MMO is a contract between you and the company behind it.  It's their rules and they define what is actionable.  It is plain bad business sense to allow new people to be ripped off and possibly chased out of the game. People playing their own version of evil and who are out to destroy another's good time aren't playing EQ2 and don't need to be here.</span></p></blockquote><p>You should take a few moments to educate yourself about what it means for something to be actionable. You may also want to learn a little bit about contracts.</p></blockquote><p>'actionable' or not, I believe the point that Gisalaani was trying to make is that the attitude of 'wow that's funny', 'nothing wrong actually happened' is the problem. If the account is accurate, the behavior of the people that took the plat and then kicked the person is clearly not the type of behavior that should be encouraged or condoned... by us, the players.</p><p>Whether or not it is something that SoE should (or can) take action is is beside the point, really. We, as the community, should be doing things that welcome new players and encourage them to continue playing. Not things that take advantage of people or even just snickering behind our hands when we see somebody else taking advantage of 'newbs'.</p>

[SisterTheresa]

<p><cite>Avirodar@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Levatino wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>a trade is a trade yes, but tell me what did the OP get?</p></blockquote><p>What did the OP get? An invite to the guild, as per the agreement made before the trade occured. Did the agreement include how long the invitation was valid for? Probably not... And guess what happened?All in all, I hope the OP learned a valuable lesson from this. A lesson that will aid them not just in MMO's, but also in the real world. Always do the research. Ask for the details. Do not assume "best case scenario" or the inevitable (burn) will happen. If something seems wrong, it very well may be. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Guilds asking for admission fees? I'd be very hesitant to persue that option on any game.The real cost, will be if the OP does not gain wisdom from this experience. I do not wish misfortune upon the OP. The best thing I can suggest is they learn, move on, find a real guild, and gain thousands of plat.</p></blockquote><p>Though I don't always agree with Avirodar ... I do this time <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" /></p><p>No guild should have you pay for anything, unless you get something serious from it.  Heck if I gave 2 plat I'd want a suit of armor and a weapon .. or something ...</p><p>But yes, I really don't see this as a scam at all.  I remember back in EQ1 days, scams in the Commonland's tunnels.  THOSE were scams, saying they sell one thing, then take your money as they put a similar looking item in the trade window, accept then log out quickly.</p><p>Learn from this experience.  Never jump into a guild that announces itself in any channel without doing research on them first.  If you get a bad feeling about something, go someplace else.</p><p><cite>Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It is funny that those in support of the OP's 2p lose would never consider that the OP might have violated said guilds code of conduct and was /kicked becasue of it. Did the OP join a 'family' guild and use fowl lauguage? Could they have harrassed some of the female members? Perhaps they took unauthorized items out of the guild bank or pocketed a few guild decorations under the guise of 'planning to decorate'.</p><p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">Or perhase THIS thread itself is the actual scam</span></strong>... wouldn't it be hugely hilarious IF the OP dreamed up this scam: to come and QQ on the forums about being scammed out of 2p, then have kind and supportive people offer to replace it out of charity. That by itself, 2 plat, from a large number of people could add up to a lot of plat. I know that I've seen people go to jail IRL becasue they held a benefit and told people they had cancer only to pocket the money to enjoy in thier non-cancer life.</p></blockquote><p>Your use of logic sir/madam .. is not allowed on these forums!!</p><p>But is a good point nonetheless!</p>