Proc on avoidance is Double and Triple Proccing.

[Corydonn]

<p>And I personally love dying to it. Please take your time in fixing this. Seriously.</p><p><a href="http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/680/bustihei.gif" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/680/bustihei.gif</a></p><p>I've got tons more screenshots and I could probably dig through the ACT logs on this as well. I used to think it was just ripostes but apparently regular blocks as a brawler was doing it too. Maybe it's just the mob striking through and failling adding a 2nd proc but that doesn't really explain the fear proc.</p>

[Novusod]

<p>Welcome to six months ago Corydonn.</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=517616" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=517616</a></p><p>It has been well documented since the proc first showed up in beta. I and many others have been complaining about it for a long time. It is strikethrough 2.0 designed to weaken brawlers. The more you avoid the faster you die. So much easier for a plate tank to tank these it is not even funny.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Welcome to six months ago Corydonn.</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=517616" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=517616</a></p><p>It has been well documented since the proc first showed up in beta. I and many others have been complaining about it for a long time. It is strikethrough 2.0 designed to weaken brawlers. The more you avoid the faster you die. So much easier for a plate tank to tank these it is not even funny.</p></blockquote><p>Dude. There is NOTHING in that topic about the proc hitting 2-3 times per a single avoid. Totally different things.</p>

[Novusod]

<p>It has been muti procing since day one Corydonn. You are NOT the first person to be one shotted by damage on avoidance proc. It happens all the time so welcome to the club. I have been hit with it 7 times in one swing on multiple occasions and I am sure others have seen similar results. Stop acting like your special and only caring about an issue when it directly affects you. This is old hat and most people have already moved on with it by now. As I said this goes all the way back to Beta but unfortunaly that forum no longer exists.</p><p>The thread I linked describes the problem much more thoroughly than your picture. Is what makes damage on avoidance particularly deadly to brawlers is that it is unwardable and doesn't proc reactives. It is much better to get hit with a swing which can be warded than it is to get hit with unwardable damage on avoidance. That is the real nature of the beast and <strong>it was done on purpose by design to weaken brawlers</strong>. This is info that was dirrectly told me by the devs themselves. I have been saying for a long time that is overkill. I hope you have now come to reason and agree that this assessment was right all along.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It has been muti procing since day one Corydonn. You are NOT the first person to be one shotted by damage on avoidance proc. It happens all the time so welcome to the club. I have been hit with it 7 times in one swing on multiple occasions and I am sure others have seen similar results. Stop acting like your special and only caring about an issue when it directly affects you. This is old hat and most people have already moved on with it by now. As I said this goes all the way back to Beta but unfortunaly that forum no longer exists.</p><p>The thread I linked describes the problem much more thoroughly than your picture. Is what makes damage on avoidance particularly deadly to brawlers is that it is unwardable and doesn't proc reactives. It is much better to get hit with a swing which can be warded than it is to get hit with unwardable damage on avoidance. That is the real nature of the beast and <strong>it was done on purpose by design to weaken brawlers</strong>. This is info that was dirrectly told me by the devs themselves. I have been saying for a long time that is overkill. I hope you have now come to reason and agree that this assessment was right all along.</p></blockquote><p>Then where the heck is your screenshot and post complaining about 7 hitting procs you deliquent lol. It effects everybody and I have no problem with it hitting once per avoid. two to three is a bit much.</p>

[Novusod]

<p>I did not save any screenshots because I did not deem it relevent. If I could not get an agreement on the principle of the matter then the actual implementation of the concept is irrelevent. It is completely irrelevent to discuss these numbers when the concept behind the mechanic was to make it better to get hit than to avoid a hit and put bralwers at a disadvantage. They have achieved their goal by design. The point is the goal itself is flawed and must be agreed to be changed before we can discuss implementation.</p><p>At best you may get this one mob changed so it doesn't proc so much. But it will pop up again on the next mob, and the next, just like it has been the entire expansion. This issue needs to be changed at the root of the problem, not just on a mob here or there.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I did not save any screenshots because I did not deem it relevent. If I could not get an agreement on the principle of the matter then the actual implementation of the concept is irrelevent. It is completely irrelevent to discuss these numbers when the concept behind the mechanic was to make it better to get hit than to avoid a hit and put bralwers at a disadvantage. They have achieved their goal by design. The point is the goal itself is flawed and must be agreed to be changed before we can discuss implementation.</p><p>At best you may get this one mob changed so it doesn't proc so much. But it will pop up again on the next mob, and the next, just like it has been the entire expansion. This issue needs to be changed at the root of the problem, not just on a mob here or there.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah 7 hits of 20k from one avoidance roll is nothing relevant. There is no facepalm good enough other than going outside and planting my face into a tree running full speed to justify what you just posted.</p>

[Irgun]

<p>The mechanic itself aint dumb, its the fact its damage is too high and not wardable/mitigatable. ~</p>

[Hennyo]

<p>Well, I am going to say a few things about this. First off, when Obano first saw this mechanic on live was on a challenge mode heroic mob on the first or second day after the update. I know that he got one shot, multiple times with 5 hit unwardable avoidance chains. While there were no screen shots, the central issue is still the same back then as it is now. As for how out of line the particular mob your having an issue with Corydonn, I will bring up something my guild had to do, to deal with it. Due to my guilds current roster we have had our app paladin tank Corspemaul, while Obano was eating the death touch. Now because app paladin does not have the raw HP that our other tanks have, he had to DROP AA BLOCK CHANCE, just to avoid being one shot from the same avoidance mechanic. That said, for a brawler to tank that mob, they quite frankly have to intentionally drop large amounts of avoidance to make it possible. While I think mechanic as it currently is, just doesn't work correctly because of examples like this, as mentioned by the poster above me, if the damage was wardable and reactives worked on it, the issue with it would mostly vanish. One last note for anyone trying to deal with this mechanic currently, there are only 3 ways to lower the damage of it atm. First, mob potency debuffs lower the damage, second lower your avoidance, and third increase your raw hp amount.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Hennyo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well, I am going to say a few things about this. First off, when Obano first saw this mechanic on live was on a challenge mode heroic mob on the first or second day after the update. I know that he got one shot, multiple times with 5 hit unwardable avoidance chains. While there were no screen shots, the central issue is still the same back then as it is now. As for how out of line the particular mob your having an issue with Corydonn, I will bring up something my guild had to do, to deal with it. Due to my guilds current roster we have had our app paladin tank Corspemaul, while Obano was eating the death touch. Now because app paladin does not have the raw HP that our other tanks have, he had to DROP AA BLOCK CHANCE, just to avoid being one shot from the same avoidance mechanic. That said, for a brawler to tank that mob, they quite frankly have to intentionally drop large amounts of avoidance to make it possible. While I think mechanic as it currently is, just doesn't work correctly because of examples like this, as mentioned by the poster above me, if the damage was wardable and reactives worked on it, the issue with it would mostly vanish. One last note for anyone trying to deal with this mechanic currently, there are only 3 ways to lower the damage of it atm. First, mob potency debuffs lower the damage, second lower your avoidance, and third increase your raw hp amount.</p></blockquote><p>I've tanked it before you guys were even on the mob. It's simple as hell and requires no thought or skill (Even though I did make some huge mistakes early on~). I'm just tired of how luck based it is on subsequent kills especially with this bug popping up eating through extra saves when the brawler super save isn't up. I mean hitting a full ignore pain at 20% only to have it go right back to where it was through a triple proc is just... Menacing.</p><p>The fact of the matter is who can or cannot tank the mob. What the mechanic is intended to do. Who the mechanic is intended to punish. It's that the proc is double and triple proccing which in all seriousness... SHOULD NOT HAPPEN.</p>

[Hennyo]

<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hennyo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well, I am going to say a few things about this. First off, when Obano first saw this mechanic on live was on a challenge mode heroic mob on the first or second day after the update. I know that he got one shot, multiple times with 5 hit unwardable avoidance chains. While there were no screen shots, the central issue is still the same back then as it is now. As for how out of line the particular mob your having an issue with Corydonn, I will bring up something my guild had to do, to deal with it. Due to my guilds current roster we have had our app paladin tank Corspemaul, while Obano was eating the death touch. Now because app paladin does not have the raw HP that our other tanks have, he had to DROP AA BLOCK CHANCE, just to avoid being one shot from the same avoidance mechanic. That said, for a brawler to tank that mob, they quite frankly have to intentionally drop large amounts of avoidance to make it possible. While I think mechanic as it currently is, just doesn't work correctly because of examples like this, as mentioned by the poster above me, if the damage was wardable and reactives worked on it, the issue with it would mostly vanish. One last note for anyone trying to deal with this mechanic currently, there are only 3 ways to lower the damage of it atm. First, mob potency debuffs lower the damage, second lower your avoidance, and third increase your raw hp amount.</p></blockquote><p>I've tanked it before you guys were even on the mob. It's simple as hell and requires no thought or skill (Even though I did make some huge mistakes early on~). I'm just tired of how luck based it is on subsequent kills especially with this bug popping up eating through extra saves when the brawler super save isn't up. I mean hitting a full ignore pain at 20% only to have it go right back to where it was through a triple proc is just... Menacing.</p><p>The fact of the matter is who can or cannot tank the mob. What the mechanic is intended to do. Who the mechanic is intended to punish. It's that the proc is double and triple proccing which in all seriousness... SHOULD NOT HAPPEN.</p></blockquote><p>Not saying you didn't kill it before me, just pointing out the stupid stuff that I saw personally done to deal with the retardedness of the way that mob currently works.</p><p>Also, the double and triple proccing, if it is as you think it may be, where procs are happening for every successful avoidance roll on a single hit, then yes that would be a straight out bug with the current coding of the proc.</p><p>While I don't do that side, so I don't have logs myself of it, copy pasting log sections that help prove that it is behaving as you think it may be, would be beneficial for this argument. It was stated by dev's themselves that avoiding a hit should always give less total damage then it would be if you didn't avoid, and if it is bugged the way you are saying it may be, that would make what the devs said wrong in this case, and should be fixed.</p><p>EDIT: While I assume you would know what to post to prove your point of what is happening, one thing I noticed with your orginal screen shots, is that there was no time stamps on the hits. From a proof standpoint, the timestamps are important to prove that the hits are comming from a single swing.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Hennyo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hennyo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well, I am going to say a few things about this. First off, when Obano first saw this mechanic on live was on a challenge mode heroic mob on the first or second day after the update. I know that he got one shot, multiple times with 5 hit unwardable avoidance chains. While there were no screen shots, the central issue is still the same back then as it is now. As for how out of line the particular mob your having an issue with Corydonn, I will bring up something my guild had to do, to deal with it. Due to my guilds current roster we have had our app paladin tank Corspemaul, while Obano was eating the death touch. Now because app paladin does not have the raw HP that our other tanks have, he had to DROP AA BLOCK CHANCE, just to avoid being one shot from the same avoidance mechanic. That said, for a brawler to tank that mob, they quite frankly have to intentionally drop large amounts of avoidance to make it possible. While I think mechanic as it currently is, just doesn't work correctly because of examples like this, as mentioned by the poster above me, if the damage was wardable and reactives worked on it, the issue with it would mostly vanish. One last note for anyone trying to deal with this mechanic currently, there are only 3 ways to lower the damage of it atm. First, mob potency debuffs lower the damage, second lower your avoidance, and third increase your raw hp amount.</p></blockquote><p>I've tanked it before you guys were even on the mob. It's simple as hell and requires no thought or skill (Even though I did make some huge mistakes early on~). I'm just tired of how luck based it is on subsequent kills especially with this bug popping up eating through extra saves when the brawler super save isn't up. I mean hitting a full ignore pain at 20% only to have it go right back to where it was through a triple proc is just... Menacing.</p><p>The fact of the matter is who can or cannot tank the mob. What the mechanic is intended to do. Who the mechanic is intended to punish. It's that the proc is double and triple proccing which in all seriousness... SHOULD NOT HAPPEN.</p></blockquote><p>Not saying you didn't kill it before me, just pointing out the stupid stuff that I saw personally done to deal with the retardedness of the way that mob currently works.</p><p>Also, the double and triple proccing, if it is as you think it may be, where procs are happening for every successful avoidance roll on a single hit, then yes that would be a straight out bug with the current coding of the proc.</p><p>While I don't do that side, so I don't have logs myself of it, copy pasting log sections that help prove that it is behaving as you think it may be, would be beneficial for this argument. It was stated by dev's themselves that avoiding a hit should always give less total damage then it would be if you didn't avoid, and if it is bugged the way you are saying it may be, that would make what the devs said wrong in this case, and should be fixed.</p><p>EDIT: While I assume you would know what to post to prove your point of what is happening, one thing I noticed with your orginal screen shots, is that there was no time stamps on the hits. From a proof standpoint, the timestamps are important to prove that the hits are comming from a single swing.</p></blockquote><p>It's the default ui... There are no other swings happening...</p>

[Davngr]

<p>i noticed this on my bruisers early on as well and it is a a BS mechanic.    maybe it has to do with how many avoidance checks the mob passes or something along those lines?   for instance if it fails the first avoidance check then you get one proc but if it passes the first avoidance check then fails the hit/miss then you get 2 hits?   this wouldn't explain the 3+ procs unless parry's turning into riposte also modifies the quantity of procs.</p><p>  at the core of the problem is either bad coding or devs intended this to be a luck based proc?  meaning when it triggers it has a chance to trigger for 1-? many times like a flurry?    </p><p>  no dev went into any detail on this mechanic that i remember reading thus most of this is just speculation.</p>

[Hennyo]

<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's the default ui... There are no other swings happening...</p></blockquote><p>Um, default UI, Options -> User Interface -> Chat Window - > Advanced - > Chat Message Time, click the box.</p><p>Then pointing out another small issue, is your screen shots START in the middle of swings, the first one the first line you can read for example is an avoidance damage proc, which means there was a line of the mob trying to hit you before that. Mob multi attack and flurry work the same way for them as it does for us, which means that the total swings per auto round will be one different from each other at best, plus flurrry chance. Example, the has 550 multi attack so it gets either 5 or 6 attacks, and it has 25 percent flurry, so it has a chance of getting an additional 2 to 4 attacks from that as well.</p><p>Your screen shots, or even just copy paste of log text, should show the mob getting more swings than it does when it lands hits, which your screen shots don't currently show. To do this you would need to post logs of the mob getting the normal number of swings, as well as the abnormal, without something to compare it agaisnt it is hard to show something wrong is happening.</p><p>I think there is a slight misunderstanding here, I am actually not arguing agaisnt your point at all, I am actually for it, I am just trying to get the information needed to prove your point posted here, that way a serious argument can be brought before the devs to get this fixed, instead of something that would just be overlooked and nothing would happen.</p><p>I will try to get logs of this myself from someone else in raid tonight to help post proof of this issue.</p>

[Brildean]

<p>Wow Cord.. nice example posted</p><p>I'm 98% certain this is a bug with how strikethrough works.. and howcome they never show us on our logs..</p><p>Each Strikethrough rolls on your avoidance.. so if you go in order Block Dodge Riposte/parry (unsure of the actual order)</p><p>This will explain the 3 procs.. if you get through all 3 of those and you still avoid.. it thinks your avoiding 3 attacks.. hint the 3 procs..</p><p>getting through 2 checks it thinks your avoiding 2.</p><p>since he's not 100% strikethough probalby around 25% to 45%.</p><p>Hit hits</p><p>You block, he strikethroughs you dodge, he strikethough the dodge you riposte. 3 avoids on the same attack.</p><p>He's problaby not 100% strikethrough either.. so problaby around 45%.. some attacks wont get strikethrough on the intial avoid some will.</p><p>Can you hit a temp strikethrough immune and see if the damage goes up or it goes to 1 on one 1.. for block/riposte</p>

[Novusod]

<p>Here is another oddity about the damage on avoidance proc. It will also damage through lend avoidance buffs. I was actually one shotted through shrug off procing six times in a row. We also saw our templar get one shotted through sheild ally once. The thing is the damage on shield ally avoidance was changed but the shrug off damage was not. When this was investigated it was made clear by the devs the proc would not be changed because it was working as intended to weaken brawlers. Damage on avoidance was intended to be a brawler nerf that is why the templar sheild ally was changed but the shrug off damage was not. Until the devs decide and agree that brawlers need to be unnerfed they will not be changing anything with the proc even if it is technically bugged. There is no point in posting screenshots and further documentation of the proc until such an agreement is made.</p>

[Novusod]

<p>I parsed some logs of tonight's raid with ACT.</p><p>Note that I was not tanking. This is the incoming damage to a Pally tank.</p><p>With time stamps enabled I am able to get a clear picture of what is going on. We can observe that a single swing will consist of a series of multi attacks. If the multi attack is blocked or parried it will proc into Planar Forces damage. So <span style="color: #ff9900;">if the multi attacks on each swing repeatedly get avoided you will end up with strings of Planar Forces damage</span>. The Planar Forces damage is directly connected to multi attack's RNG. If you get 3 or 4 multi's in a single second and they get blocked that becomes string of planar forces multi proc. Never once did the total number of planar Forces procs exceed the number of multi attacks per swing. There is no bug here. The mechanic is working as intended as seen through the results of this 16 minute long pull.</p><p><a href="http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e38/Novuso/EverQuest/PlanarForcesProcs2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e38/Novuso/EverQuest/th_PlanarForcesProcs2.jpg" width="160" height="112" />_</a>    <a href="http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e38/Novuso/EverQuest/PlanarForcesProcs.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e38/Novuso/EverQuest/th_PlanarForcesProcs.jpg" width="159" height="76" />_</a></p><p>The only thing worth noting here is that Divine Aura can completely negate all incoming damage and is the single best temp in the game in dealing with Planar Forces. Brawler avoidance temps on the other will only increase the incoming damage.</p>

[Davngr]

<p>not really working as inteded since procs aren't suppose to proc, procs.     anyway.. no devs said anything about it when people brought it up last time  and i doubt anyone will say anything now. </p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I parsed some logs of tonight's raid with ACT.</p><p>Note that I was not tanking. This is the incoming damage to a Pally tank.</p><p>With time stamps enabled I am able to get a clear picture of what is going on. We can observe that a single swing will consist of a series of multi attacks. If the multi attack is blocked or parried it will proc into Planar Forces damage. So <span style="color: #ff9900;">if the multi attacks on each swing repeatedly get avoided you will end up with strings of Planar Forces damage</span>. The Planar Forces damage is directly connected to multi attack's RNG. If you get 3 or 4 multi's in a single second and they get blocked that becomes string of planar forces multi proc. Never once did the total number of planar Forces procs exceed the number of multi attacks per swing. There is no bug here. The mechanic is working as intended as seen through the results of this 16 minute long pull.</p><p><a href="http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e38/Novuso/EverQuest/PlanarForcesProcs2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e38/Novuso/EverQuest/th_PlanarForcesProcs2.jpg" width="160" height="112" />_</a>    <a href="http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e38/Novuso/EverQuest/PlanarForcesProcs.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e38/Novuso/EverQuest/th_PlanarForcesProcs.jpg" width="159" height="76" />_</a></p><p>The only thing worth noting here is that Divine Aura can completely negate all incoming damage and is the single best temp in the game in dealing with Planar Forces. Brawler avoidance temps on the other will only increase the incoming damage.</p></blockquote><p>Can I politely ask you to stop posting as your data is irrelevant since you can tell nothing from what you pulled up in ACT. Sure the mob multiattacks and it will proc for each avoid but that's not the issue I'm posting about. In my combat logs of the default UI I can see where it says multiattacks and I certainly wasn't multiattacked, especially not for the triple procs.</p><p>I know for one of the triple procs I was using my 100% dodge ability so if my thinking is correct on Strikethrough being the cause (Since I never saw this issue before Strikethrough immunity was removed on older HM mobs). What happened is I riposted before the dodge which counted as one proc, It tried to strikethrough the riposte counting for another proc and finally it tried to go through the dodge counting as a third proc.</p><p>This same thing could also be happening to plate tanks that never noticed it since they just stacked Runes of Mending to survive through the spike on Vallon and never thought to actually look through the default combat logs. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Novusod]

<p>Look a single swing consists of multi attacks and if those multi attacks get blocked you are going to see double and triple hits of Planar Forces for every single swing. I really doubt this has anything to do with riposte or dodge. Your screen shot did not show a single multi attack nor any time stamps which means your selected UI options are showing inconclusive data and nothing more. In all the times commanders have been pulled the total number of planar forces procs never exceeded the total number of multi attacks. If you have full fight logs that show more planar forces procs than multi attacks then of course that would a bug and I will happily admit I was wrong.</p><p>Also if you don't like me posting here by all means submit a bug report and PM a dev if you really think you have something here but I am 99% sure there nothing going on. The only thing I see here is an incredibly lame mechanic that has been one shotting brawlers all expansion on a strictly LUCK based principle of RNG strings that penalize avoidance tanks.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Look a single swing consists of multi attacks and if those multi attacks get blocked you are going to see double and triple hits of Planar Forces for every single swing. I really doubt this has anything to do with riposte or dodge. Your screen shot did not show a single multi attack nor any time stamps which means your selected UI options are showing inconclusive data and nothing more. In all the times commanders have been pulled the total number of planar forces procs never exceeded the total number of multi attacks. If you have full fight logs that show more planar forces procs than multi attacks then of course that would a bug and I will happily admit I was wrong.</p><p>Also if you don't like me posting here by all means submit a bug report and PM a dev if you really think you have something here but I am 99% sure there nothing going on. The only thing I see here is an incredibly lame mechanic that has been one shotting brawlers all expansion on a strictly LUCK based principle of RNG strings that penalize avoidance tanks.</p></blockquote><p>That's because a multiattack obviously didn't happen.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p>Also. Avoiding for another does NOT proc the effect on the player avoiding as of now. I don't know where that information came from but it is most certainly false and requires no developer attention.</p>

[Ulrichvon]

<p><cite>Davngr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>not really working as inteded since procs aren't suppose to proc, procs.     anyway.. no devs said anything about it when people brought it up last time  and i doubt anyone will say anything now. </p></blockquote><p>MA swings are not procs.</p>

[Brildean]

<p>Ma is a proc on hit.. Always has probalby always will be.  The on hit means you have to actually land the hit for it to proc the additional attacks.</p><p>And avoiding a MA does show up in the logs as Mob tried to multiattack but you dodged or blocked or parried.</p><p>Flurry works kidna same way except its not guaranteed extra hits above 1.</p>

[Kander]

<p>We have a fix coming for this. It looks like Intercede could be making this proc significantly more as well. </p><p>We're trying to get it into game as soon as possible.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Kander wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We have a fix coming for this. It looks like Intercede could be making this proc significantly more as well. </p><p>We're trying to get it into game as soon as possible.</p></blockquote><p>Intercede! I would have never thought! Thanks for the update and keep up the awesome work.</p>

[Davngr]

<p><cite>Ulrichvon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>not really working as inteded since procs aren't suppose to proc, procs.     anyway.. no devs said anything about it when people brought it up last time  and i doubt anyone will say anything now. </p></blockquote><p>MA swings are not procs.</p></blockquote><p>they aren't suppose to proc anything (damage, detrimental or other wise) and do proc off the initial swing that's why you use to get triple attack back in old days. thought were changed to not require the initial swing to hit.   there are a few procs that don't require the initial swing to hit in game this is one of them.</p><p>edit. still a proc tho</p>

[Davngr]

<p><cite>Kander wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We have a fix coming for this. It looks like Intercede could be making this proc significantly more as well. </p><p>We're trying to get it into game as soon as possible.</p></blockquote><p> makes sense, since clerics were getting owned by this mechanic at first.</p>

[Shotneedle]

<p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Also if you don't like me posting here by all means submit a bug report and PM a dev if you really think you have something here but I am 99% sure there nothing going on. The only thing I see here is an incredibly lame mechanic that has been one shotting brawlers all expansion on a strictly LUCK based principle of RNG strings that penalize avoidance tanks.</p></blockquote><p>I am just going to throw it out there that Sardosaurus has not been one shot by the on avoid proc once this entire expansion.</p>

[Brildean]

<p><cite>Kander wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We have a fix coming for this. It looks like Intercede could be making this proc significantly more as well. </p><p>We're trying to get it into game as soon as possible.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks Kander. Can you also look into the on hit along with these to proc reactives.. currently they dont since they are procs hitting a tank.They also hit through wards. Which makes 4/6 healers primary heals useless on these type of hits.</p>