In BG, how is it possible to....

[avow]

<p>1. in BG, when did wizards get instant huge, rapid fire heals?  Why can't my wizard do that?</p><p>2. In BG, why does it seem the nagafin team alts, some naked (yep, no armor on or in appearnce as we repeatedly checked) can hit us one or twice and kill us who are wearing full 92 pvp gear?</p><p>3.  in BG, when i grab the flag it is very, very slow motion.  When they grab it they are running normally or even really fast.  I put on all the run spells and buffs and potions and everything i and my teammates canfind and nothing affects it.  What is the other side using?</p><p>4.  in BG, We have folks who can't be seen no matter what 'see invis' versions of buffs or spells or anything is used and they can cast spells and maintain their invisibility.  I use my area of effect spells and it pops them into view.</p><p>5. in BG, We are getting way too many alts with same gear on 'their' side that are not taking any damage no matter how many of us are on one player.  In many cases there are no healers or buffers or debuffers around and our damage does not to them.  How come my alts and my team mates alts don't get these great buffs or spells or racials or abilities?</p><p>6. in BG Many of us playing the game the way you designed it aare being farmed like sheep or cattle so they can very, very quickly max out their alts with pvp gear.  Most of us are are worling our hearts out and its like walking in wet cement.</p><p>7.  in BG How is it possible for someone to send tells that they will outfit an alt in full end tier pvp gear in as litle as one hour?  Are tokens transferable? Mine are not.</p><p>8. in BG There are players who say they know when bgs are playing and they get into them at the last minute and get tokens.  The say they can get thousands of tokens a day flitting from bg end to bg to bg end without getting a 5 minute penalty and without actually playing.   We see this happening.  Is this really a good idea?</p><p>9.  Too many BG;s are lopsided and ending with the losing team having few to zero kills.  Something is wrong here.</p><p>10.  Well, back to BG's.  I have no other way to get good gear to be able to play in no BG part of game. heh heh.</p>

[TheSpin]

<p>I do want to comment on one thing you mentioned.</p><p>I saw someong selling BG tokens yesterday in chat (Freeport).  They said they knew a way to transfer them.  That definitely needs to be fixes asap.</p><p>I don't really know what to say about the other problems except I know there have been problems somewhat like this in the past, hopefully new hack prevention will come along to prevent it.  In the meantime you can probably/report and then /petition providing as much information as you can about what was happening so a GM can investigate and take appropriate action.</p>

[StaggerLeia]

<p>... maybe move this to the bgs section ...</p>

[CoLD MeTaL]

<p><cite>avow wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>6. in BG Many of us playing the game the way you designed it aare being farmed like sheep or cattle so they can very, very quickly max out their alts with pvp gear.  Most of us are are worling our hearts out and its like walking in wet cement.</p></blockquote><p>Removed.</p>

[TheSpin]

<p><cite>CoLD MeTaL wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>avow wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>6. in BG Many of us playing the game the way you designed it aare being farmed like sheep or cattle so they can very, very quickly max out their alts with pvp gear.  Most of us are are worling our hearts out and its like walking in wet cement.</p></blockquote><p>This along with several of the others is why I do not BG.  Too many cheaters and $OE does nothing.</p></blockquote><p>I feel the need to speak up for Sony's behalf just a bit on this one.  This kind of attitude towards the EQ2 team is just unwarrented in my opinion.</p><p>The truth is that Sony is struggling a bit on the whole, and this is especially true for Playstation products, which have been attached to SOE.  If there doesn't seem to be enough being done by SOE to fix problems, it's due to a legitimate lack of resources.  EQ2 is a profitable product, and work is being done to keep EQ2 profitable and players happy (since they go hand in hand) but the EQ2 team has to use their resources sparingly.  I feel it is good for us as players to communicate what is important to us so that the EQ2 team can best decide how to use what resources they have.</p><p>I don't feel like comments like this accomplish anything though.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>Most of the OP's post is all L2P issues.  Ends up the game you've been playing is more complex than you knew, and there are abilities that work very different in pvp, and there are abilities that have no value in PVE but are very useful in PVP.</p><p>That aside.</p><p>Yes, there are 2 token exploits that need to be fixed immediatly.  The command to requeue when your already in a match needs to be removed as it enables an exploit.  And I can't post about the other one at all, but it needs fixing.</p>

[Absynthia]

<p>If you cant post them here, please please pm the devs and let them know about exploits. They take care of them fast when they know exactly what the problems are!</p>

[SisterTheresa]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Most of the OP's post is all L2P issues.  Ends up the game you've been playing is more complex than you knew, and there are abilities that work very different in pvp, and there are abilities that have no value in PVE but are very useful in PVP.</p><p>That aside.</p><p>Yes, there are 2 token exploits that need to be fixed immediatly.  The command to requeue when your already in a match needs to be removed as it enables an exploit.  And I can't post about the other one at all, but it needs fixing.</p></blockquote><p>Hm.  I am curious, Atan .. yeah I don't do BGs (I tried them I think once before the revamping), but though I understand some L2P issues ...</p><p>2. <em>In BG, why does it seem the nagafin team alts, some naked (yep, no armor on or in appearnce as we repeatedly checked) can hit us one or twice and kill us who are wearing full 92 pvp gear?</em>  ~ I can see some if they had gear on, but naked and still one shotting people .... different AA lines?</p><p>4. <em>in BG, We have folks who can't be seen no matter what 'see invis' versions of buffs or spells or anything is used and they can cast spells and maintain their invisibility. I use my area of effect spells and it pops them into view.</em> ~ What else makes you see invis then?  Curious ...</p><p>Just looking for insight as it doesn't make sense to my old brain.</p>

[CoLD MeTaL]

<p><cite>Ridolain@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Most of the OP's post is all L2P issues.  Ends up the game you've been playing is more complex than you knew, and there are abilities that work very different in pvp, and there are abilities that have no value in PVE but are very useful in PVP.</p><p>That aside.</p><p>Yes, there are 2 token exploits that need to be fixed immediatly.  The command to requeue when your already in a match needs to be removed as it enables an exploit.  And I can't post about the other one at all, but it needs fixing.</p></blockquote><p>Hm.  I am curious, Atan .. yeah I don't do BGs (I tried them I think once before the revamping), but though I understand some L2P issues ...</p><p>2. <em>In BG, why does it seem the nagafin team alts, some naked (yep, no armor on or in appearnce as we repeatedly checked) can hit us one or twice and kill us who are wearing full 92 pvp gear?</em>  ~ I can see some if they had gear on, but naked and still one shotting people .... different AA lines?</p><p>4. <em>in BG, We have folks who can't be seen no matter what 'see invis' versions of buffs or spells or anything is used and they can cast spells and maintain their invisibility. I use my area of effect spells and it pops them into view.</em> ~ What else makes you see invis then?  Curious ...</p><p>Just looking for insight as it doesn't make sense to my old brain.</p></blockquote><p>I know there are L2P issues because the gear gets changed every other week what does and doesn't work.  I went in with my assassin, snuck up behind a guy wizard standing there in stealth.  Hit assassinate which did more than 45k at the time in PvE, got nothing.  guy took no dmg at all, then turned around and 1 shotted me.  I don't want BG stuff enough to to go thru that learning curve because it must be huge with those kinds of disparities.</p><p>Nothing will happen to token exploiters either.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Ridolain@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>2. <em>In BG, why does it seem the nagafin team alts, some naked (yep, no armor on or in appearnce as we repeatedly checked) can hit us one or twice and kill us who are wearing full 92 pvp gear?</em>  ~ I can see some if they had gear on, but naked and still one shotting people .... different AA lines?</p><p>4. <em>in BG, We have folks who can't be seen no matter what 'see invis' versions of buffs or spells or anything is used and they can cast spells and maintain their invisibility. I use my area of effect spells and it pops them into view.</em> ~ What else makes you see invis then?  Curious ...</p><p>Just looking for insight as it doesn't make sense to my old brain.</p></blockquote><p>#2. Chances are they are swapping gear in #2, but even a naked BL can do some crazy primal damage.  inspect doesn't seem to be realtime anyway.</p><p>#4 Invis works differently in pvp, there is a range based component to it.  Even with cat totems, I can only see invised players under a specific radius to me.  If they get very far away at all, the see invis/stealth is no longer effective.  Also, many people forget see stealth and see invis are different things and you need to be able to see both.  There is also a level check on it, and I'm not exactly sure how that works on these level scaling BGs.  But with the right totems, you can see invis players in close proximity.</p>

[Twinbladed]

<p><cite>avow wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1. in BG, when did wizards get instant huge, rapid fire heals?  Why can't my wizard do that?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Could be procs, relics,tinkering, etc...</span></p><p>2. In BG, why does it seem the nagafin team alts, some naked (yep, no armor on or in appearnce as we repeatedly checked) can hit us one or twice and kill us who are wearing full 92 pvp gear?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Most of us on nagafen take off our pvp gear with a macro fyi so people don't use the same strats and items we do, the same reason we hide our profile's and aa's</span></p><p>3.  in BG, when i grab the flag it is very, very slow motion.  When they grab it they are running normally or even really fast.  I put on all the run spells and buffs and potions and everything i and my teammates canfind and nothing affects it.  What is the other side using?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">There is plenty of ways to get around that especially after the last update, one simple way is any race with a run speed buff, another put aa's into sprint so it cost less power and you run faster over time</span></p><p>4.  in BG, We have folks who can't be seen no matter what 'see invis' versions of buffs or spells or anything is used and they can cast spells and maintain their invisibility.  I use my area of effect spells and it pops them into view.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I have never witnessed a wizard or any caster for that matter in a bg do that, no comment lol</span></p><p>5. in BG, We are getting way too many alts with same gear on 'their' side that are not taking any damage no matter how many of us are on one player.  In many cases there are no healers or buffers or debuffers around and our damage does not to them.  How come my alts and my team mates alts don't get these great buffs or spells or racials or abilities?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Because you don't know how to spec for pvp maybe? </span></p><p>6. in BG Many of us playing the game the way you designed it aare being farmed like sheep or cattle so they can very, very quickly max out their alts with pvp gear.  Most of us are are worling our hearts out and its like walking in wet cement.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Very simple answer, you like fast tokens then earn them on a server that's for pvp, of course a pvp server should have a token system in it without bg's, that's why you choose to be pvp free, and they choose to take the risks</span></p><p>7.  in BG How is it possible for someone to send tells that they will outfit an alt in full end tier pvp gear in as litle as one hour?  Are tokens transferable? Mine are not.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Do what? I'm starting to think your just making up things, you have shown 0 evidence to a lot of this stuff, most of it has very simple answers, but then there is stuff like this where it seems like you just need to find a way to complain</span></p><p>8. in BG There are players who say they know when bgs are playing and they get into them at the last minute and get tokens.  The say they can get thousands of tokens a day flitting from bg end to bg to bg end without getting a 5 minute penalty and without actually playing.   We see this happening.  Is this really a good idea?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">If soe doesn't care why should you, since most of this has been directed at naggy players and the great hacks they are using lol, you would understand those players are going to que up for bg's because 1 they know it is mindless grouping and free token so turning on auto run and getting hit by someone or any other way to not get a penalty they are going to do, because it's just not real pvp to players on a pvp server. I can't speak for other servers but most people use bg's as a way to just get free tokens between wf's or if the population is lower atm in the open world.</span></p><p>9.  Too many BG;s are lopsided and ending with the losing team having few to zero kills.  Something is wrong here.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I agree with that one.</span></p><p>10.  Well, back to BG's.  I have no other way to get good gear to be able to play in no BG part of game. heh heh.</p></blockquote><p>I would assume because of playing freely you don't think about the people who sit and study what they need to do to make sure the toon they play is very well able to be good in pvp, whether it is using old school gear procs, all the way to tinkering and aa mixture's that create better def system for them, most players on a pvp server already have the mindstate of kill or be killed. Most of those are things I'm guessing you didn't know you could do, or you just don't think about it. If player A's spends more time fighting and killing other players and mobs at the same time for 8 years, but playr B only spends most of his time killing mobs, who do you think is going to have the knowledge advantage in player on player fight. Yes, people do use 3rd party programs, but it's not just a pvp server thing at all, the first cb exploit was actually learned on AB and then to FP following to Nag. So exploiting the game and using third party programs are not new by anymeans on any server. You just now might notice it, because your in a seting that force's you to fight against things you don't understand, but you got to seperate what is a exploit and what is not, and most of the things you said have very logical answers to them, because we do that kind of stuff all day. Just like the gear being gone issue, in the respite a lot of pvp player do not like other pvp players to see what they are wearing, so they make a macro they hit before they are in combat in the bg. Try to look at the mechanics in your face with most of that stuff and you will find out 0 server has any advantage over the other one. </p>

[Delethen]

<p><cite>TheSpin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do want to comment on one thing you mentioned.</p><p>I saw someong selling BG tokens yesterday in chat (Freeport).  They said they knew a way to transfer them.  That definitely needs to be fixes asap.</p></blockquote><p>This is most likely a scam.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p>it's no secret that there are hacks and if you see one, report it.    that's all you can do and hope the person gets banned.</p>

[Xianthia]

<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>it's no secret that there are hacks and if you see one, report it.    that's all you can do and hope the person gets banned.</p></blockquote><p>or at the very least the hack gets fixed.</p>

[TheSpin]

<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>it's no secret that there are hacks and if you see one, report it.    that's all you can do and hope the person gets banned.</p></blockquote><p>Don't just report it if you really want some action taken against that individual.  There's 3 things you should do.</p><p>1. /report <name></p><p>2. Gather any kind of evidence you can in the form of screenshots or movies or whatever else you know how to do, and get a really good description of what is happening.</p><p>3.  /petition and include everything gathered in step 2 with the petition.  (it won't get answered, but you can report player conduct via a petition)</p>

[Wingrider01]

<p><cite>TheSpin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>it's no secret that there are hacks and if you see one, report it.    that's all you can do and hope the person gets banned.</p></blockquote><p>Don't just report it if you really want some action taken against that individual.  There's 3 things you should do.</p><p>1. /report</p><p>2. Gather any kind of evidence you can in the form of screenshots or movies or whatever else you know how to do, and get a really good description of what is happening.</p><p>3.  /petition and include everything gathered in step 2 with the petition.  (it won't get answered, but you can report player conduct via a petition)</p></blockquote><p>historicly screen shots, log files and moves have never been accepted as proof, anyine decent with photo shop can alter anything to show exactly what they want it to, samve with movies and text logs. only the /report is acceptable becasue that writes a file to the server</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>TheSpin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>it's no secret that there are hacks and if you see one, report it.    that's all you can do and hope the person gets banned.</p></blockquote><p>Don't just report it if you really want some action taken against that individual.  There's 3 things you should do.</p><p>1. /report</p><p>2. Gather any kind of evidence you can in the form of screenshots or movies or whatever else you know how to do, and get a really good description of what is happening.</p><p>3.  /petition and include everything gathered in step 2 with the petition.  (it won't get answered, but you can report player conduct via a petition)</p></blockquote><p>This is the right thing to do, but I hate encouraging this to be done.   I've been acused of hacking and been reported just cause people don't understand the game and some of the tricks that can be done to accomplish things they think aren't possible.</p><p>Obvious things, like warps and speed hacks should be reported, but understand some abilities cause 'warping' behavior, like joust, hook arrow, blink, etc.  So just cause someone 'warped' on your screen doesn't mean its a hack.   Now if they pick up the flag and instantly appear on the other side of the map, yeah, that is a warp.</p><p>I'm not sure how much will be done about it though as it took weeks to get action on bots that were running 24/7 and reported over and over again.</p>

[Delethen]

<p><cite>Twinbladed@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>avow wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>4.  in BG, We have folks who can't be seen no matter what 'see invis' versions of buffs or spells or anything is used and they can cast spells and maintain their invisibility.  I use my area of effect spells and it pops them into view.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I have never witnessed a wizard or any caster for that matter in a bg do that, no comment lol</span></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>I can only assume here that what he is describing is a char using evade (or whatever the mage / priest versions are), and that what is really happening is the duration of evade is just ending rather than him exposing it with an AE.</p>

[TheSpin]

<p><cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>TheSpin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>it's no secret that there are hacks and if you see one, report it.    that's all you can do and hope the person gets banned.</p></blockquote><p>Don't just report it if you really want some action taken against that individual.  There's 3 things you should do.</p><p>1. /report</p><p>2. Gather any kind of evidence you can in the form of screenshots or movies or whatever else you know how to do, and get a really good description of what is happening.</p><p>3.  /petition and include everything gathered in step 2 with the petition.  (it won't get answered, but you can report player conduct via a petition)</p></blockquote><p>historicly screen shots, log files and moves have never been accepted as proof, anyine decent with photo shop can alter anything to show exactly what they want it to, samve with movies and text logs. only the /report is acceptable becasue that writes a file to the server</p></blockquote><p>Screen shots, log files, and movies won't provide the 100% assurance that a player is cheating, but it can be used as a starting point for GM investigations and help them know what to look for in the logs to make sure that an exploit is being used.</p><p>The amount of time that can be invested into catching cheaters is limited, so by providing additional information you can move the process along and increases the chance the problem can be identified and dealt with within the alloted time.</p>

[Laenai]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>TheSpin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>it's no secret that there are hacks and if you see one, report it.    that's all you can do and hope the person gets banned.</p></blockquote><p>Don't just report it if you really want some action taken against that individual.  There's 3 things you should do.</p><p>1. /report</p><p>2. Gather any kind of evidence you can in the form of screenshots or movies or whatever else you know how to do, and get a really good description of what is happening.</p><p>3.  /petition and include everything gathered in step 2 with the petition.  (it won't get answered, but you can report player conduct via a petition)</p></blockquote><p>This is the right thing to do, but I hate encouraging this to be done.   I've been acused of hacking and been reported just cause people don't understand the game and some of the tricks that can be done to accomplish things they think aren't possible.</p><p>Obvious things, like warps and speed hacks should be reported, but understand some abilities cause 'warping' behavior, like joust, hook arrow, blink, etc.  So just cause someone 'warped' on your screen doesn't mean its a hack.   Now if they pick up the flag and instantly appear on the other side of the map, yeah, that is a warp.</p><p>I'm not sure how much will be done about it though as it took weeks to get action on bots that were running 24/7 and reported over and over again.</p></blockquote><p>Unfortunately, this goes hand-in-hand with the L2P thing <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I used to think I was the most awesome player ever. Then I went and PvPed........and instead of complaining that it was too hard or people were killing me or "wah wah *insert whine here*" I studied, figured stuff out, asked questions, and learned how to play my class.</p><p>Then I suggested all my friends and neighbors do the same. You can learn a lot through PvE and be amazing and then step into PvP and totally. suck. monkeys. Its a learning curve just like everything else is.</p><p>Your options are: Cry like a girl or L2P.</p><p>Sadly, we hear way too much girly crying and not enough "How do you...?"</p>

[CowControl]

<p>U live in a pink land, where all ppl around are friendly and stuff like that. There is other shadow land where all ppl are rude and hostile. That is know to as pve and pvp lands ;P</p><p>U really think u will join BGs without know anything about pvp and owned ppl that live in pvp all day?? ofc i cant say u dont meet a cheater, but dont u think that maybe ppl from Nagafen know many tricks that u know? Maybe they have old pvp gear that is i win and u dont even know it.</p>

[Cynicisim]

<p>I acknowledge that some of what you feel is frustarting and I hope it is not a then v us kind of thing. I see some exceptional players in BGs from all servers. Generally those are the ones who put effort into gear and knowledge. Some of the concerns you express are the difference between pvp and pve. They are different and it is reflected in many different ways. The costs of butterfly, cat and owl totems on a blue server v naggy are very different and I would bet not used 24/7 on a blue server whereas on naggy even when in town they are runnign 100% of the time. freedom of mind/action, relics purchased from the city vender etc are all usefull items that I do not see many use but on Naggy they are a mainstay.</p><p>AA mirrors.. Do you hvae one spec for pvp and one for pve? What is useless in pve may be very helpful in pvp and also how a CA hits in pvp is different. Look at Reach for a swahi and how it can change how you play in pvp and your aa setup.</p><p>Armor and adornments are very different for pvp and pve. The stats you want may change. Many players have a macro that changes out gear based on what they are doing. Sometimes you want a 50m bow sometimes you want heal gear, sometimes you want arcane resistance gear etc. Macro the gear and change it based on the need and group makeup. I know of some who have bags full of gear just in case they need it at a moments notice.</p><p>A full set of pvp gear is not the complete package and will not put anyone on par with a good player who knows pvp.</p><p>I think BGs are great practice for pvp. When to taunt, knockback, jump behind the warlock, mez etc. The rotation is often different for pvp and well as location. in pve you can stand in one spot and do well and dps very high but in pvp you will most often end up dead. It may hurt your dps to run around and use the terrain but it will help you stay alive.</p><p>I dislike all exploits and report them. If you are a victim I am truely sorry and not all pvp'ers spend all waking hours trying to find a free "I win" or "escape" exploit but some do and they are not representative of pvp.</p>

[KniteShayd]

<p>There are some funny things i, myself, have seen happen in BG's.I grew up on the pvp servers before I xfered to PvE, So I personally know tricks that can be done.But yes, as stated before, you may not be spec'd for PvP. Some classes have PvE only specs that will never work in PvP. You may be one of those classes.</p><p>Also quality of gear and spells may be playing a part in that too. I have a T4 toon that has full reactant gear. He still gets pwnd by someone in legendary PvP gear. Why, cuz the Reactant gear effects turn off in PvP. So he doesn't proc heals, wards, dmg, stat boosts, debuffs..., nothing. All he gains is the mitigation and the higher base stats. Some one with PvP gear may have stats like multi attack, hast, +DPS, +crit. So they may be able to tear through me faster, despite my slightly higher mit and base stats, than I would them.</p>