FIX BARD RUN SPEED in BGs

[Latomier12]

<p>ok love you guys finally got around to fixing the Flags debuff of 1,000%...but can you NOW adjust Bards run speed, I just watched a guy run stupid fast in Ganak in stealth as a bard, that's a bit much...Everyone needs to be on same lvl run speed wise or it creates an Advantage to the team with most bards..OH and I was on the team with the stupid run speed Bard, so this isn't crying over losing, we won the match in under 2 mins..</p>

[Freejazzlive]

<p><cite>Latomier12 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>but can you NOW adjust Bards run speed, I just watched a guy run stupid fast in Ganak in stealth as a bard</p></blockquote><p>Because he put AAs into increasing his stealthed speed, most likely. Otherwise, speed buffs auto-cancel when you're stealthed.</p><p>As a Bard, I say "deal with it."</p>

[Latomier12]

<p>no cause a Bard running at 100% with the flag is crazy OP..lol, I don't wanna win that easy, Ganak over in under 2 mins, that's just goofy... OH and when he ran past me, he was stealth and he was hauling azz..lol</p>

[Freejazzlive]

<p><cite>Latomier12 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>no cause a Bard running at 100% with the flag is crazy OP..lol, I don't wanna win that easy, Ganak over in under 2 mins, that's just goofy... OH and when he ran past me, he was stealth and he was hauling azz..lol</p></blockquote><p>I'm going to say the same thing in EQ2, that I said about Druids in WoW: get them on your own team, & either learn to stop them, or don't.</p><p>The only way I'd remotely agree with you is if other classes, which have excellent run-speed buffs, are having those buffs entirely eliminated in the BGs. However, if that's the case, the proper response is to fix those other class's buffs, not to nerf Bards.</p>

[TheSpin]

Well I would agree that runspeed with the flag should be restricted to a specific amount, but runspeed without the flag are aspects of the class and shouldn't lose out on class features by playing in BGs.

[Yimway]

<p>What is the current debuff on the flag?</p>

[Davngr1]

<p>some other poster had a good idea. </p><p> give the flag a static 100% run speed no matter what and make it worth like 20 points or something.  that way it becomes a flag scoring game or a kill game whatever your side is strongest at.   also make it so a flag score is a flag score no matter if the flag is there or not.</p>

[Latomier12]

<p>Some of you are very slow, or fail at reading... I never said FIX BARD run speed without flag, I said the run speed they have while carrying flag is silly and this was about a fellow team mate, not some random Bard on other team... I think it should strip all current run buffs no matter if they derive from  Spell, Ability, Gear or even AA and then give a 30% run debuff..</p>

[Yimway]

<p>Again, what is the current debuff on the flag?</p><p>-150% runspeed should be just fine.</p>

[Latomier12]

<p>current is 35% after the patch iirc</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Latomier12 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>current is 35% after the patch iirc</p></blockquote><p>There is the problem -35% is too easily negated.</p><p>-100 to -150 is where it needs to be.</p>

[Xzerius]

<p><cite>Latomier12 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>ok love you guys finally got around to fixing the Flags debuff of 1,000%...but can you NOW adjust Bards run speed, I just watched a guy run stupid fast in Ganak in stealth as a bard, that's a bit much...Everyone needs to be on same lvl run speed wise or it creates an Advantage to the team with most bards..OH and I was on the team with the stupid run speed Bard, so this isn't crying over losing, we won the match in under 2 mins..</p></blockquote><p>In all seriousness, one of the biggest problems with cries for "fixes" is that people aren't identifying the problem correctly in the first place.  It's like people screaming for caster "fixes" because sorcs seem to be wearing plate mail yet everyone can still rip through a "caster" chanter.  Lets scream for fixes so they all get "fixed" instead of where the problem is.  Just because they saw the most immediate identifyable symbol.  Anyway......  it was most likely a racial benefit and not an archetype benefit unless it was a troub that has something that a dirge doesnt ( Never played a troub )  but since you balled it up into an archetype we don't exactly know that.  I do know that my dirge cannot run accross the field in stealth or out of stealth at 100% with or without a flag or gain any run speed benefit of any sorts.  I do believe that there is a racial ability being used that allows the person to stealth and grab the flag to do so.  I just don't recall which race it is but it was being used before the run speed "fix"  that caused the -75 crawl.</p>

[Xzerius]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Latomier12 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>current is 35% after the patch iirc</p></blockquote><p>There is the problem -35% is too easily negated.</p><p>-100 to -150 is where it needs to be.</p></blockquote><p>Apparantly you didn't play when it was -75 and completely ridiculous to even attempt to touch the silly flag.   IMO   ALL speed buffs should be negated in ALL  BG's.  Everyone run at 0 speed regardless of class, buffs, mount  etc.... and flag carrier in Ganak  at it's current -35.  This will certainly "fix" the issue with Gears Map where you might get lucky enough to get a Fury ( least of all any healer ) that pops Pact of Cheetah, and send his group flying to the relic before the other team even touches the ground from the ledge.  </p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Xzerius wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Latomier12 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>current is 35% after the patch iirc</p></blockquote><p>There is the problem -35% is too easily negated.</p><p>-100 to -150 is where it needs to be.</p></blockquote><p>Apparantly you didn't play when it was -75 and completely ridiculous to even attempt to touch the silly flag.   IMO   ALL speed buffs should be negated in ALL  BG's.  Everyone run at 0 speed regardless of class, buffs, mount  etc.... and flag carrier in Ganak  at it's current -35.  This will certainly "fix" the issue with Gears Map where you might get lucky enough to get a Fury ( least of all any healer ) that pops Pact of Cheetah, and send his group flying to the relic before the other team even touches the ground from the ledge.</p></blockquote><p>I played at -75 and it was fine.  A class with lots of speed buffs, or a class with snare reduction moved reasonably.</p><p>-1000 was when it was flat out stupid.</p>

[TheSpin]

<p>Here's my suggestion.</p><p>Adjust ALL runspeed buffs in battlegrounds to be 50% less effective and half the cap on runspeed.  Reduce Flag-carrier speed by a flat 25%, and additionally drop the runspeed buff by another 50% (so 25%).</p><p>Here's how this would play out in game.</p><p>Unmodified Runspeed 0%,      BG runspeed = 0%,     Flag runspeed = (25% slower than base)</p><p>Modified Runspeed of 50%,    BG runspeed = 25%,   Flag runspeed = (13% slower than base)</p><p>Modified Runspeed of 100%  BG runspeed = 50%,   Flag runspeed = 0%</p><p>Of course the actual caps, debuffs and percentages might want to be tweaked, but I think this would be a very good starting point for a way to balance things out.</p>

[Laenai]

<p>So if we remove run speed buffs, the point of having them would be........?</p><p>Remember when they came out with those anti-stun/stifle/mezz/fear/kitchen sink charms that everyone could buy with tokens and folks complained that every BG turned into a snooze fest of zerg killing because the effects of everyone's abilities were completely negated by the charms(except for taunts and taunt-locks)?</p><p>That's what negating every run speed buff would be like for Ganak.</p><p>There are a thousand ways to negate it through strategy. Pick one and roll with it.</p>

[Xzerius]

<p><cite>Laenai@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So if we remove run speed buffs, the point of having them would be........?</p><p>Remember when they came out with those anti-stun/stifle/mezz/fear/kitchen sink charms that everyone could buy with tokens and folks complained that every BG turned into a snooze fest of zerg killing because the effects of everyone's abilities were completely negated by the charms(except for taunts and taunt-locks)?</p><p>That's what negating every run speed buff would be like for Ganak.</p><p>There are a thousand ways to negate it through strategy. Pick one and roll with it.</p></blockquote><p>Spoken like someone who never played on a PvP server.  Our entire server had run speed nerfed years ago and it has always been a problem / complaint.  The current mounts have made it that much worse.  On a PvP server you'd have to be out of your mind ( or simply not really there to PvP ) to take run speed enhancements and it sucks when you have to put 4 points in it just to get to the next AA in the line.  Run speed in PvP is a WASTE.</p>

[KniteShayd]

<p>AA spec stealth runspeed (12.5%) + Racial Stealth runspeed (15%) = 37.5%</p><p>There are some stealth runspeed items you can gear up with too, too increase the amount. FYI.</p>

[Xzerius]

<p>Just saw it myself in 2 different matches.  He strolled accross the zone in about 8 seconds.  I went to EQ2U and looked up his  spec. He is obvipously specced for the sole purpose of run speed with max points in all movement speeds including stealth and racial. It was a Dark Elf Dirge totally specced for run speed.  He ran while stealthed and holding the flag and was faster than anyone else on my team who wasn't even stealthed or in combat.  It's not just his class its a combo of that and his racials. </p><p>Personally I think SOE needs to simply put everyone's run speed at 0, regardless of class or skills, and run abilities should be disabled in BG's.  This is supposed to be a PvP ruleset so the same restrictions should apply as on the pvp server.  and keep flag at -35%.  problem solved.</p>

[Kolder]

<p>   Have the flags detriment include "Target is uneffected by run speed buffs" and drop the -35%.  Then everyone will run at the same speed with the flag and snares will still work.</p>

[Xzerius]

<p><cite>Kolder wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>   Have the flags detriment include "Target is uneffected by run speed buffs" and drop the -35%.  Then everyone will run at the same speed with the flag and snares will still work.</p></blockquote><p>Also a very good idea for a "fix" ^</p>

[Davngr1]

<p>it's affected by anti snare buffs as well.  just needs to cap out at 100% and be lowered to 20 points per flag then the game would become to catch/run the flag or mass kill depending on your raids strengths.</p>

[Ulrichvon]

<p>I'm not sure I'd want to see it changed much from how it is right now.</p><p>All in all, it feels to me like the match works as it is supposed to after all the recent tweeks.</p><p>Granted I only play in the 30-89 tier, can't speak to 90-92.</p>