fighters in pvp.

[Rotate]

<p>Monks have the least effective tuants in pvp! Why am i seeing the fighters like zerkers and guard with the best pvp tuants hitting for 20-25k hits in pvp on some ca's when monks hardest hitting ca hits for around 9k. Unless i am really unlucky and my dev fist has never crit on anyone..   I am not  sure how brusiers feel in pvp, but monks just feel uselss. Every other tank can tuant better in pvp and has more spike damage! I aslo feel super squishy haha.. </p><p>I get alot of single target tuants, but when the other tanks are constantly aoe tuanting, i have no imunity to thier tuants i am locked on them.  Guards get a group temp that makes group imunne to tuants i think someone said. What other fighters get this?   Monks just seem lacking in group pvp worse then ever! </p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Rotate@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Monks have the least effective tuants in pvp! Why am i seeing the fighters like zerkers and guard with the best pvp tuants hitting for 20-25k hits in pvp on some ca's when monks hardest hitting ca hits for around 9k. Unless i am really unlucky and my dev fist has never crit on anyone..   I am not  sure how brusiers feel in pvp, but monks just feel uselss. Every other tank can tuant better in pvp and has more spike damage! I aslo feel super squishy haha.. </p><p>I get alot of single target tuants, but when the other tanks are constantly aoe tuanting, i have no imunity to thier tuants i am locked on them.  Guards get a group temp that makes group imunne to tuants i think someone said. What other fighters get this?   Monks just seem lacking in group pvp worse then ever! </p></blockquote><p>I agree. Dragonfire isn't really even that useful anymore since even myself reforged to 120% cast speed. Mantis Leap helps somewhat but it's often going to get you killed because more players = more inc damage unlike most tanks being more players = more self heals.</p><p>The only thing really saving my bruiser with his 10% heals is that immunity timers are nerfed so bad I can stun lock someone with extreme predjudice by just going stun ca ca stun and both stuns will land. You should try bruiser though Rotate, Building up 15k Vicious Combinations in PVP is soooo tough but sooooo satisfying.</p><p>Also zerkers get the group immunity to taunts as well in heroic AAs along with SKs. Combat Mastery gives a pseudo taunt immunity for 10 seconds but you seem to have to be on the target you want to stay locked on because if you use it while targeting a tank it'll keep you locked onto the tank.</p><p>P.P.S. Queue with me sometime!</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Also zerkers get the group immunity to taunts as well in heroic AAs along with SKs. Combat Mastery gives a pseudo taunt immunity for 10 seconds but you seem to have to be on the target you want to stay locked on because if you use it while targeting a tank it'll keep you locked onto the tank.</p></blockquote><p>I really don't see this as an issue, there is a long immunity timer that goes off for this thing and it lasts a very short duration.  Every 2 minutes you can focus dps on one target for 10 seconds?   We need that sort of thing in pvp mechanics in order to build strategies to kill what otherwise would be an unkillable group.</p><p>I'm curious to the OP though, what is hitting for 20k?  PC? I'm certainly not seeing anything hitting for that, and cause of how good my taunts are, I have to turtle up something fierce and have an excellent healer tied to my hip or I go down in seconds.  In the end, my dps while locking down people is extremely low, much less than a similarly geared brawler.</p><p>I'm not saying things are perfect by any means, but fighters seem more balanced in PVP than they were previously.  It takes work and cunning to be a decent tank where as before it was super easy.</p>

[Novusod]

<p>I have never seen a guard hit anyone for 25k, not on myself, or a mage, or a scout, or healer. It just doesn't happen. Guard taunts are nothing special in PvP at least not compared to Divide and Conquer which can force detaunt everyone nearby to no target for up to 8 seconds.</p>

[Rahatmattata]

<p>All I do on my guard is turtle up hold aggro and score points. Sometimes I'll bow shot a squish pretty hard but that's the only time you will see me half shot anyone.</p>

[Davngr]

<p>brawlers need a passive hate ability and that's about it tbh. </p><p> that's what makes guards and zerks taunt locking gods.   it's hard for most dps classes to stop hitting them and that's what you have to do to switch targets.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>The passive hate is no longer a force target though.</p>

[Davngr]

<p>really?  did not notice that.</p><p>  still have a hard time switching targets while hitting them.   going to have to inspec what is causing this i suppose</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Davngr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>really?  did not notice that.</p><p>  still have a hard time switching targets while hitting them.   going to have to inspec what is causing this i suppose</p></blockquote><p>I have a number of things that either aoe target lock, group target lock, single target target lock, or target lock on melee hit.</p><p>If I time them all very well, and if someone has gone 'all in' on reuse as I have, you can lock down a great number of people for a very long time (if I've got some awesome heals to do deal with it).</p><p>I personally have set up act triggers for the duration of the target lock and tied it to the abilities that have them, so like dps folks use a 'ding' for auto attack, I use one for target locking.</p>

[Darq]

<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I agree. Dragonfire isn't really even that useful anymore since even myself reforged to 120% cast speed. Mantis Leap helps somewhat but it's often going to get you killed because more players = more inc damage unlike most tanks being more players = more self heals.</p></blockquote><p>1 dragonfire = 40% less hp for me. 40%!</p><p>play a brig you won't stop crying if you think that brawlers are weak as it is lol</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Darq wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I agree. Dragonfire isn't really even that useful anymore since even myself reforged to 120% cast speed. Mantis Leap helps somewhat but it's often going to get you killed because more players = more inc damage unlike most tanks being more players = more self heals.</p></blockquote><p>1 dragonfire = 40% less hp for me. 40%!</p><p>play a brig you won't stop crying if you think that brawlers are weak as it is lol</p></blockquote><p>Are you serious lol? I can operate my alt brig to be WAYYY more devastating than my bruiser and that was in SF when bruisers had a major advantage!</p>

[Exagon]

<p>deceit > lololol</p>

[Corydonn]

<p>This is god d!#@*( redonkulous in a @#$!*( Blender. Omougi I am sooo raged out right now having lost about 13 gears (14 since starting this post!) matches in a row right now. I don't have ANY presence at all in a fight now or even a game. I won't go into detail because it's going to end up being a long rant that will make me sound like such a whiner but please PM me and ask for it!</p><p>I'm just going to link this game out of spite since it had two of the WORST tanks you could possibly go up against yet a loss still occurs because the other teams warlock offers way more dps loss and disruption than I could ever offer as a bruiser.</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/9075/eq2000039.jpg" target="_blank">http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/...5/eq2000039.jpg</a></p><p>If you have any comments or suggestions just based on the screenshot I will gladly answer you. I can assure you Omougi that you more than anyone know this is far from an ID10T error/user input errors. I can assure you I was at the top of my game with control effects, Leaps and timed burst abilities (That were thwarted not by tanks but by warlock abilities.)</p><p>Also. Change Control effects back to the old timers because this is far worse than before since you buffed them and even worse than SWTOR. Another thing. Peaceful link is a passive detaunt you appear to have missed that definately needs hit with the changes the assassin/swash transfers got.</p><p>Rage Rage Rage Rage Whine Whine Whine Whine Grrr <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Edit: After 5 hours Daily is complete! I can sleep~</p>

[Gealaen_Gaiamancer]

<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is god d!#@*( redonkulous in a @#$!*( Blender. Omougi I am sooo raged out right now having lost about 13 gears (14 since starting this post!) matches in a row right now.</p><p>...</p><p>Edit: After 5 hours Daily is complete! I can sleep~</p></blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">I say this only humorously: If you weren't posting on the forums at the same time, the BG might be going better!  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p style="text-align: justify;">5 hours to pick up 1 win (and/or enough kills)?  Ouch.  I've had a few 'bad run' streaks in BGs, but that's bordering on absurd.</p>

[Delethen]

<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is god d!#@*( redonkulous in a @#$!*( Blender. Omougi I am sooo raged out right now having lost about 13 gears (14 since starting this post!) matches in a row right now. I don't have ANY presence at all in a fight now or even a game. I won't go into detail because it's going to end up being a long rant that will make me sound like such a whiner but please PM me and ask for it!</p><p>I'm just going to link this game out of spite since it had two of the WORST tanks you could possibly go up against yet a loss still occurs because the other teams warlock offers way more dps loss and disruption than I could ever offer as a bruiser.</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/9075/eq2000039.jpg" target="_blank">http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/...5/eq2000039.jpg</a></p><p>If you have any comments or suggestions just based on the screenshot I will gladly answer you. I can assure you Omougi that you more than anyone know this is far from an ID10T error/user input errors. I can assure you I was at the top of my game with control effects, Leaps and timed burst abilities (That were thwarted not by tanks but by warlock abilities.)</p><p>Also. Change Control effects back to the old timers because this is far worse than before since you buffed them and even worse than SWTOR. Another thing. Peaceful link is a passive detaunt you appear to have missed that definately needs hit with the changes the assassin/swash transfers got.</p><p>Rage Rage Rage Rage Whine Whine Whine Whine Grrr <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Edit: After 5 hours Daily is complete! I can sleep~</p></blockquote><p>Its a 6 v 6 fight, its not simply a question of how well you play yourself.  Besides, you only had 1 healer to their 2 and Zedboy is a good troubador.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Delethen@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is god d!#@*( redonkulous in a @#$!*( Blender. Omougi I am sooo raged out right now having lost about 13 gears (14 since starting this post!) matches in a row right now. I don't have ANY presence at all in a fight now or even a game. I won't go into detail because it's going to end up being a long rant that will make me sound like such a whiner but please PM me and ask for it!</p><p>I'm just going to link this game out of spite since it had two of the WORST tanks you could possibly go up against yet a loss still occurs because the other teams warlock offers way more dps loss and disruption than I could ever offer as a bruiser.</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/9075/eq2000039.jpg" target="_blank">http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/...5/eq2000039.jpg</a></p><p>If you have any comments or suggestions just based on the screenshot I will gladly answer you. I can assure you Omougi that you more than anyone know this is far from an ID10T error/user input errors. I can assure you I was at the top of my game with control effects, Leaps and timed burst abilities (That were thwarted not by tanks but by warlock abilities.)</p><p>Also. Change Control effects back to the old timers because this is far worse than before since you buffed them and even worse than SWTOR. Another thing. Peaceful link is a passive detaunt you appear to have missed that definately needs hit with the changes the assassin/swash transfers got.</p><p>Rage Rage Rage Rage Whine Whine Whine Whine Grrr <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Edit: After 5 hours Daily is complete! I can sleep~</p></blockquote><p>Its a 6 v 6 fight, its not simply a question of how well you play yourself.  Besides, you only had 1 healer to their 2 and Zedboy is a good troubador.</p></blockquote><p>This would be a good statement if I didn't direct the healer on our team how not to get blasted and they had two pretty much deadweight players doing nothing. (No offense to them) and yes usually it was tanks who make or break games by their taunting and CC effects. Not warlocks. The point of this thread is tanks having no presence on the field anymore.</p>

[Balrok]

<p>You had a bad run there bro...</p><p>What's being pointed out in the screen shot? </p><p>wartroubzerkerdefilerguardmystic</p><p>vs</p><p>wizwizconjbruiserwizdeflier</p><p>Not sure you're going to win that matchup, unless your wizards and conj are top notch... which looks like they weren't.  Their two shamans did an amazing job... suprised you actually killed that warlock twice (relic kills?).  Actually suprised you kept that match close.  From a DPS perspective.. the dps tiers really do fall in place. </p><p>With that said... I'm with you on wiz/war classes being dumb atm.  But left unchecked or backed up by shaman heals, they are going to destroy the parse.  rangers/assassins will put up the same/similar numbers unchecked and supported by shamans.</p><p>I love it when they continue to nerf CCs.  Swear I'm the only one that doesn't see them as nerfs.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Balrok]

<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> The point of this thread is tanks having no presence on the field anymore.</p></blockquote><p>I really can't comment on brawlers, cause I never really saw them as a "group tank".  There were always unkillable solo players.</p><p>And I will say a crusader/warrior backed up with shaman heals is the worst thing you can ever run into.  I can't get off these targets and they don't die easily.  Taunt nerf and Commanding Roars does little... the good ones with heals are amazing and totally effect the combats I run into.  More then not... "they" are what get me killed, since I can't stop the DPS from lighting me up.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Exur@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You had a bad run there bro...</p><p>What's being pointed out in the screen shot? </p><p>wartroubzerkerdefilerguardmystic</p><p>vs</p><p>wizwizconjbruiserwizdeflier</p><p>Not sure you're going to win that matchup, unless your wizards and conj are top notch... which looks like they weren't.  Their two shamans did an amazing job... suprised you actually killed that warlock twice (relic kills?).  Actually suprised you kept that match close.  From a DPS perspective.. the dps tiers really do fall in place. </p><p>With that said... I'm with you on wiz/war classes being dumb atm.  But left unchecked or backed up by shaman heals, they are going to destroy the parse.  rangers/assassins will put up the same/similar numbers unchecked and supported by shamans.</p><p>I love it when they continue to nerf CCs.  Swear I'm the only one that doesn't see them as nerfs.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>The thing is the shamans were CCed plenty by their bane of fears and to a lesser extent mezzes. There were literally 0 taunts, I'm giving all 4 mages on my team the benefit of the doubt that they attacked good targets and used CCs correctly but... The warlock just ruined the day with Null Caress being the prime factor in saving healers lives through several different cooldown bursts even when my entire team had commanding roar and should have been able to spike a healer down even when I was ported away losing -all- of my dps. When the defiler was down it was pretty easy to kill the lock since I could just CC and ignore the mystic nearly every time and then get the mystic/defiler while the lock was down. Funny that I have to take care of mages disrupting my dps more than tanks. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I sppose this is more of a rant that right now a warlock will outclass a brawler in every way in a group fight and even probably most solo fights with all the instant cast CCs and emergencies they get along with passive emergencies.</p>

[Balrok]

<p>people seem to continue to focus on warlocks and wizards, when assassins/rangers can spit out just as much damage and Crusaders are sneakily amazing and over flooding BGs.  No joke... just watch for them, about half my BGs are crusaders that never die.... and you can't get off them.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Exur@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>people seem to continue to focus on warlocks and wizards, when assassins/rangers can spit out just as much damage and Crusaders are sneakily amazing and over flooding BGs.  No joke... just watch for them, about half my BGs are crusaders that never die.... and you can't get off them.</p></blockquote><p>They outheal through any dps I can dish out as well heh but they don't do as much for a team as warlocks in my opinion. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Ranger's hook shot also doesn't spin you snare you and is AE!</p>

[Davngr]

<p>i have all ready said that, that port is up way too often for what it does. </p><p>my bruiser isn't that great this expac but sk/zerk/guard are pretty formidable in the taunt lock department.</p>

[Darq]

<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darq wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I agree. Dragonfire isn't really even that useful anymore since even myself reforged to 120% cast speed. Mantis Leap helps somewhat but it's often going to get you killed because more players = more inc damage unlike most tanks being more players = more self heals.</p></blockquote><p>1 dragonfire = 40% less hp for me. 40%!</p><p>play a brig you won't stop crying if you think that brawlers are weak as it is lol</p></blockquote><p>Are you serious lol? I can operate my alt brig to be WAYYY more devastating than my bruiser and that was in SF when bruisers had a major advantage!</p></blockquote><p><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> SF isn't now.</p><p>when you get the jump on dps classes it's most likely you'll win as a brig if they break out of stun you're dead tho.tanks is an almost sure loss.healers are 50/50, probably less in favor of the healer.</p><p>compare to other dps classessin self/group heal proc and another heal, 3 hits at most kills a target that's like 2 seconds.warlock, even if you cure plaguebringer the same moment it lands you're sitting at 50-60% hp. outgoing dps without getting the jump vs a warlock = no chance. + mana shieldwiz, hit for insane damage, 3 spells and you're dead + mana shield, manaburn focus damage.swash and brig , even, both are lowest of the food chain right now.ranger, a good ranger will kill you, a mediocre will the a close fight, a bad one will die.bl's damage > brig damage, has 1 life tap.troub, mez blast away kite dead brig.dirge similar, also ridiculous damage reduction.coercer, I have yet to face a good one usually win for brig.illy, 50/50necro, soulburn, great heals, dead brig.conj, elemental blast,3 min recast totally OP</p><p>highest hit was 11k crit corneredno self heal, bruiser and monk have those 3 death prevents, 1 heal and bruiser has 100% dodge + heal from mythic, monk tsunami melee immune, bruiser that blue one 12 sec melee immune. brig has... deaggro (necessary) and beg for mercy which I'm not sure if it works. bruiser can break out of cc every so often. brig can dispell (useful for those crusaders but solo only used on healers because can't even get the crusaders to where they'd have to use it) yeah I know poisons I should use them <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> too lazy to craft, too expensive to buy and waste on BG matches.</p><p>@deceit comment , 5 min cooldown, in BGs that's half the match.</p><p>anyhow your bruiser vs my brig is a 100% win for you because you have more tools to survive, but all that is kind of off topic. I just don't see how you can complain from my brig point of view.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Darq wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite> </cite></p><p>when you get the jump on dps classes it's most likely you'll win as a brig if they break out of stun you're dead tho.healers are 50/50, probably less in favor of the healer.</p></blockquote><p>You should ALWAYS have the jump playing smart.</p><p>And as a brigand with the amount of interrupts and dispels any time I was given atleast 5 seconds of being uninterrupted on the healer. That healer wasn't going to have a very good day. Not to mention how insane a fully mit debuffed player is easy to kill.</p>

[hert]

<p>i had a morning like cory's last weekend, it was very frustrating. so ill whine too!</p><p>its alot more depressing trying to stay alive as a brawler than you think. tenacity with max AA heals for about the same ammount as the next tick of a caster's DoT, and mend heals for like 20% with max aa, which is about the exact same amount as nothing considering i can go from 70k Hp to 0 in about 2 seconds with 2 decent casters on me, and the resuse on mend is 45 seconds, and over 3 minutes on tenacity. and our dodge tricks seem nice too, but they do absolutly nothing against a solo or group of casters who have any idea what theyre capable of, as we just get locked up with about 10- 15 dets in less than 2 seconds that we cant cure and have 5 differnt dots ticking for at least 5k/ sec, before absolution or whatever knocks us out soon after. we have nothing vs magic damage anymore. stone deaf absorbs 3 procs on the first tick of a weak spell, which is basicly the same thing as nothing. wtb a magic ward or timed asorb or something!</p><p>it seems like theres no self reliance for brawlers anymore, and if theyre up against more than 1 or 2 casters that dont suck, theyre pretty much just damage on the board to absorb. Summoners arent so bad, because at least they usually die when you wail on them, but scorcerers seem to ward better solo than i can get with the average healer. and god help us if its 3+ casters and a bossy healer on the opposite team, cuz once the group has 15 dets on them, no ones doing anything except drooling and dying.</p><p>QQ</p>

[Delethen]

<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darq wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite> </cite></p><p>when you get the jump on dps classes it's most likely you'll win as a brig if they break out of stun you're dead tho.healers are 50/50, probably less in favor of the healer.</p></blockquote><p>You should ALWAYS have the jump playing smart.</p><p>And as a brigand with the amount of interrupts and dispels any time I was given atleast 5 seconds of being uninterrupted on the healer. That healer wasn't going to have a very good day. Not to mention how insane a fully mit debuffed player is easy to kill.</p></blockquote><p>Huge difference between a decent geared brigand in SF and now, it's night and day.  I remember back then when I bumped into Hekter or Pugi in a BG, I used to have a mini competition with myself to see just how low I could get them before I was inevitably massacred.  It usually wasn't very far.</p><p>Brigand v swash right now is probably slightly favouring the swash.</p>

[Delethen]

<p><cite>hert wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i had a morning like cory's last weekend, it was very frustrating. so ill whine too!</p><p>its alot more depressing trying to stay alive as a brawler than you think. tenacity with max AA heals for about the same ammount as the next tick of a caster's DoT, and mend heals for like 20% with max aa, which is about the exact same amount as nothing considering i can go from 70k Hp to 0 in about 2 seconds with 2 decent casters on me, and the resuse on mend is 45 seconds, and over 3 minutes on tenacity. and our dodge tricks seem nice too, but they do absolutly nothing against a solo or group of casters who have any idea what theyre capable of, as we just get locked up with about 10- 15 dets in less than 2 seconds that we cant cure and have 5 differnt dots ticking for at least 5k/ sec, before absolution or whatever knocks us out soon after. we have nothing vs magic damage anymore. stone deaf absorbs 3 procs on the first tick of a weak spell, which is basicly the same thing as nothing. wtb a magic ward or timed asorb or something!</p><p>it seems like theres no self reliance for brawlers anymore, and if theyre up against more than 1 or 2 casters that dont suck, theyre pretty much just damage on the board to absorb. Summoners arent so bad, because at least they usually die when you wail on them, but scorcerers seem to ward better solo than i can get with the average healer. and god help us if its 3+ casters and a bossy healer on the opposite team, cuz once the group has 15 dets on them, no ones doing anything except drooling and dying.</p><p>QQ</p></blockquote><p>I can appreciate how it must be somewhat disheartening to go from nigh on indestructible to mortal but lets be fair here, its not like you're all getting mullered by scouts.  Nothing at all has changed there for sure.  Just you have to watch out around casters, welcome to the club!</p><p>That said it must be all the more galling when you see what SKs are doing.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Delethen@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>hert wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i had a morning like cory's last weekend, it was very frustrating. so ill whine too!</p><p>its alot more depressing trying to stay alive as a brawler than you think. tenacity with max AA heals for about the same ammount as the next tick of a caster's DoT, and mend heals for like 20% with max aa, which is about the exact same amount as nothing considering i can go from 70k Hp to 0 in about 2 seconds with 2 decent casters on me, and the resuse on mend is 45 seconds, and over 3 minutes on tenacity. and our dodge tricks seem nice too, but they do absolutly nothing against a solo or group of casters who have any idea what theyre capable of, as we just get locked up with about 10- 15 dets in less than 2 seconds that we cant cure and have 5 differnt dots ticking for at least 5k/ sec, before absolution or whatever knocks us out soon after. we have nothing vs magic damage anymore. stone deaf absorbs 3 procs on the first tick of a weak spell, which is basicly the same thing as nothing. wtb a magic ward or timed asorb or something!</p><p>it seems like theres no self reliance for brawlers anymore, and if theyre up against more than 1 or 2 casters that dont suck, theyre pretty much just damage on the board to absorb. Summoners arent so bad, because at least they usually die when you wail on them, but scorcerers seem to ward better solo than i can get with the average healer. and god help us if its 3+ casters and a bossy healer on the opposite team, cuz once the group has 15 dets on them, no ones doing anything except drooling and dying.</p><p>QQ</p></blockquote><p>I can appreciate how it must be somewhat disheartening to go from nigh on indestructible to mortal but lets be fair here, its not like you're all getting mullered by scouts.  Nothing at all has changed there for sure.  Just you have to watch out around casters, welcome to the club!</p><p>That said it must be all the more galling when you see what SKs are doing.</p></blockquote><p>I could care less about parses killing people etc. I care more about being able to contribute to a win which is nil at this time.</p>

[Delethen]

<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Delethen@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>hert wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i had a morning like cory's last weekend, it was very frustrating. so ill whine too!</p><p>its alot more depressing trying to stay alive as a brawler than you think. tenacity with max AA heals for about the same ammount as the next tick of a caster's DoT, and mend heals for like 20% with max aa, which is about the exact same amount as nothing considering i can go from 70k Hp to 0 in about 2 seconds with 2 decent casters on me, and the resuse on mend is 45 seconds, and over 3 minutes on tenacity. and our dodge tricks seem nice too, but they do absolutly nothing against a solo or group of casters who have any idea what theyre capable of, as we just get locked up with about 10- 15 dets in less than 2 seconds that we cant cure and have 5 differnt dots ticking for at least 5k/ sec, before absolution or whatever knocks us out soon after. we have nothing vs magic damage anymore. stone deaf absorbs 3 procs on the first tick of a weak spell, which is basicly the same thing as nothing. wtb a magic ward or timed asorb or something!</p><p>it seems like theres no self reliance for brawlers anymore, and if theyre up against more than 1 or 2 casters that dont suck, theyre pretty much just damage on the board to absorb. Summoners arent so bad, because at least they usually die when you wail on them, but scorcerers seem to ward better solo than i can get with the average healer. and god help us if its 3+ casters and a bossy healer on the opposite team, cuz once the group has 15 dets on them, no ones doing anything except drooling and dying.</p><p>QQ</p></blockquote><p>I can appreciate how it must be somewhat disheartening to go from nigh on indestructible to mortal but lets be fair here, its not like you're all getting mullered by scouts.  Nothing at all has changed there for sure.  Just you have to watch out around casters, welcome to the club!</p><p>That said it must be all the more galling when you see what SKs are doing.</p></blockquote><p>I could care less about parses killing people etc. I care more about being able to contribute to a win which is nil at this time.</p></blockquote><p>From what I've seen, brawlers can very much contribute to a win.  I can only assume that how much and your own perspective of where they should be at, is quite a bit different.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Delethen@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Delethen@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>hert wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i had a morning like cory's last weekend, it was very frustrating. so ill whine too!</p><p>its alot more depressing trying to stay alive as a brawler than you think. tenacity with max AA heals for about the same ammount as the next tick of a caster's DoT, and mend heals for like 20% with max aa, which is about the exact same amount as nothing considering i can go from 70k Hp to 0 in about 2 seconds with 2 decent casters on me, and the resuse on mend is 45 seconds, and over 3 minutes on tenacity. and our dodge tricks seem nice too, but they do absolutly nothing against a solo or group of casters who have any idea what theyre capable of, as we just get locked up with about 10- 15 dets in less than 2 seconds that we cant cure and have 5 differnt dots ticking for at least 5k/ sec, before absolution or whatever knocks us out soon after. we have nothing vs magic damage anymore. stone deaf absorbs 3 procs on the first tick of a weak spell, which is basicly the same thing as nothing. wtb a magic ward or timed asorb or something!</p><p>it seems like theres no self reliance for brawlers anymore, and if theyre up against more than 1 or 2 casters that dont suck, theyre pretty much just damage on the board to absorb. Summoners arent so bad, because at least they usually die when you wail on them, but scorcerers seem to ward better solo than i can get with the average healer. and god help us if its 3+ casters and a bossy healer on the opposite team, cuz once the group has 15 dets on them, no ones doing anything except drooling and dying.</p><p>QQ</p></blockquote><p>I can appreciate how it must be somewhat disheartening to go from nigh on indestructible to mortal but lets be fair here, its not like you're all getting mullered by scouts.  Nothing at all has changed there for sure.  Just you have to watch out around casters, welcome to the club!</p><p>That said it must be all the more galling when you see what SKs are doing.</p></blockquote><p>I could care less about parses killing people etc. I care more about being able to contribute to a win which is nil at this time.</p></blockquote><p>From what I've seen, brawlers can very much contribute to a win.  I can only assume that how much and your own perspective of where they should be at, is quite a bit different.</p></blockquote><p>You can honestly say you'd prefer a brawler over any other class in the game right now? With a straight face.</p>

[Novusod]

<p>The people who are complaining here aren't using proper tactics. Don't run into a group of mages while solo and expect not to die. Stop trying to be hero. You don't see guardians bum rushing mages. The job of a tank is to stick by your healer and protect the dps so they can do their jobs. Last night my group ran into the same players and the use of my defensive tactics flattened them. Didn't lose a single gears match. Lost a ganak because people were running around and not staying together. The key to winning is to focus fire on the people who are the edges and try bait them out (or drag them out) of range of their healer. Without heals they drop quick, and that is exactly how it should be.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The people who are complaining here aren't using proper tactics. Don't run into a group of mages while solo and expect not to die. Stop trying to be hero. You don't see guardians bum rushing mages. The job of a tank is to stick by your healer and protect the dps so they can do their jobs. Last night my group ran into the same players and the use of my defensive tactics flattened them. Didn't lose a single gears match. Lost a ganak because people were running around and not staying together. The key to winning is to focus fire on the people who are the edges and try bait them out (or drag them out) of range of their healer. Without heals they drop quick, and that is exactly how it should be.</p></blockquote><p>I hate to be trolling but don't even talk. You added NOTHING to your wins at all last night because even with two of the most OP healers for BGing in your premade. I could still destroy one of the two of your healers while you were over being useless not taunting me or doing anything to stop me (Or having any adverse effects on my team whatsoever). That's pretty darn terrible considering you had that same warlock that won the other game I posted in your team as well while I had not even close to the same amount of skill I had in previous teams. Even when I had you on my team it was the most horrible experience ever since I had one of the best defilers in the game aiding me in staying alive with the flag for well over 10 minutes while you and your healer with a full group couldn't go kill a healerless monk in the enemy base.</p><p>You could play any other class and contribute way more to your team running with your healers doing all the work. You couldn't run a bruiser properly back when they were overpowered in SF and Velious and I guess you can run one now because they are mostly useless and the bar of skill between seeing a good bruiser and one doing nothing isn't even there.</p><p>Shucks You.</p>

[apwyork]

<p>Why the hell would you even want to waste time in battleground as a fighter?  You get killed easier than priests, you do less damage than anything and every dps gets double the tokens.  When you hit a mage, it seems that they hardly feel it, then they kill you with elemental blast.  I suppose it sucks worse for some of the priests, but honesly the balancing is so off it isn't worth the aggravation.</p><p>Be a mage or scout.  You get your gear much faster. </p>

[Novusod]

<p>Who plays fighters? Apparently lots of people do because the BGs are packed with them every single night. Fighters if used properly are more than capable of turning the tide in BG matches. Six fighters with only 2 healers flattened the higher dps mage team here.</p><p><img src="http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e38/Novuso/EverQuest/FightersWin.jpg" /></p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Who plays fighters? Apparently lots of people do because the BGs are packed with them every single night. Fighters if used properly are more than capable of turning the tide in BG matches. Six fighters with only 2 healers flattened the higher dps mage team here.</p><p><img src="http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e38/Novuso/EverQuest/FightersWin.jpg" /></p></blockquote><p>Good job posting a screenshot going against a healerless team and a majority of the fighters being shadowknights and berserkers while the topic is mainly about brawlers being useless. Must have been quite hard to run the flag and do barely enough damage more than the mystic against a team being spawncamped by Darkbyt and others.</p><p>No offense to you and I don't have anything against you but come on. Think.</p>

[Delethen]

<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Delethen@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Delethen@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>hert wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i had a morning like cory's last weekend, it was very frustrating. so ill whine too!</p><p>its alot more depressing trying to stay alive as a brawler than you think. tenacity with max AA heals for about the same ammount as the next tick of a caster's DoT, and mend heals for like 20% with max aa, which is about the exact same amount as nothing considering i can go from 70k Hp to 0 in about 2 seconds with 2 decent casters on me, and the resuse on mend is 45 seconds, and over 3 minutes on tenacity. and our dodge tricks seem nice too, but they do absolutly nothing against a solo or group of casters who have any idea what theyre capable of, as we just get locked up with about 10- 15 dets in less than 2 seconds that we cant cure and have 5 differnt dots ticking for at least 5k/ sec, before absolution or whatever knocks us out soon after. we have nothing vs magic damage anymore. stone deaf absorbs 3 procs on the first tick of a weak spell, which is basicly the same thing as nothing. wtb a magic ward or timed asorb or something!</p><p>it seems like theres no self reliance for brawlers anymore, and if theyre up against more than 1 or 2 casters that dont suck, theyre pretty much just damage on the board to absorb. Summoners arent so bad, because at least they usually die when you wail on them, but scorcerers seem to ward better solo than i can get with the average healer. and god help us if its 3+ casters and a bossy healer on the opposite team, cuz once the group has 15 dets on them, no ones doing anything except drooling and dying.</p><p>QQ</p></blockquote><p>I can appreciate how it must be somewhat disheartening to go from nigh on indestructible to mortal but lets be fair here, its not like you're all getting mullered by scouts.  Nothing at all has changed there for sure.  Just you have to watch out around casters, welcome to the club!</p><p>That said it must be all the more galling when you see what SKs are doing.</p></blockquote><p>I could care less about parses killing people etc. I care more about being able to contribute to a win which is nil at this time.</p></blockquote><p>From what I've seen, brawlers can very much contribute to a win.  I can only assume that how much and your own perspective of where they should be at, is quite a bit different.</p></blockquote><p>You can honestly say you'd prefer a brawler over any other class in the game right now? With a straight face.</p></blockquote><p>No, I said brawlers can contribute, not that they are currently the strongest class in battlegrounds.  I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert on brawlers btw - I have a monk but I never played it that much and certainly never tried it in BGs, just from my experience they can have an effective role in winning.</p>

[Condara]

<p>Someone call the waaambulance; corydonn cant run around killing scout and mage groups solo anymore cuz his class isnt OP anymore.  Could use a few more tears TBH.</p>

[Novusod]

<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Good job posting a screenshot going against a healerless team and a majority of the fighters being shadowknights and berserkers while the topic is mainly about brawlers being useless. Must have been quite hard to run the flag and do barely enough damage more than the mystic against a team being spawncamped by Darkbyt and others.</p><p>No offense to you and I don't have anything against you but come on. Think.</p></blockquote><p>They had healers, they just got cut off because it was sorted by damage done. Look at the Red teams healing recieved column. Both teams had SKs so what is your point. The topic is called "fighters in PvP" not Corydonn's brawler whinefest.</p><p>I am actually very happy with the way my brawler performs in BGs considering all the PvE brawler nerfs associated with GU64. This is the way I always PvP by using tactics and strategy to over come a technically superior force. Also tonight I had this match. No healer team against an oposing force with 3 healers. I ran one flag and then died creating a distraction so the second runner could cap. It also helped that we had good mage dps zerg to spike them down when they ran into our base. My personal DPS was not needed nor was this "<span style="color: #ffcc00;">presence on the field</span>" that you seem to think is oh so necessary. The whole PvP scheme seems very well balanced to me.</p><p><img src="http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e38/Novuso/EverQuest/FightersWin2.jpg" /></p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Condara wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Someone call the waaambulance; corydonn cant run around killing scout and mage groups solo anymore cuz his class isnt OP anymore.  Could use a few more tears TBH.</p></blockquote><p>Oh I'm still going to kill every group I come across soon enough. Even if I have to trudge through terrible mechanics to do so! That has been the last complaint, I'm taking Omougi's challenge of supreme nerfs and broken abilities (Commanding roar!) as an actual challenge now. It's on.</p><p>Edit. Again I lol at you posted matchs heavily weighted in your favor with SKs that can heal all inc damage and do so according to the parse with you contributing nothing at all.</p>

[Rahatmattata]

<p>This has got to be the most crybaby thread I have read.... in ever.</p><p>IN EVER.</p>

[apwyork]

<p>You flattened the other team and got 46 tokens is the entire problem here.  When I take a scout or mage into a bg and even if I LOSE I get 60-80 tokens.  My fighters have never even come close even if they are (rarely) the top damager or have the most kills/deathblows.  Winning fighters get around 40-50 losers get 20-30.  Winning as a scout I've gotten almost 90 tokens once.</p><p>To be honest, I have no freakin clue how the token system is supposed to work.  Doesn't seem to make much difference if I have 1 achievement or 5.  Kill dozens or none.  The token rewards are always within the same range +- only a few.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Exur@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>people seem to continue to focus on warlocks and wizards, when assassins/rangers can spit out just as much damage and Crusaders are sneakily amazing and over flooding BGs.  No joke... just watch for them, about half my BGs are crusaders that never die.... and you can't get off them.</p></blockquote><p>With all due respect, I can make rangers and assasins miss, I can parry them, I can do all sorts of things to them to mitigate how fast they can kill me.</p><p>I can do very little to a mage's ability to hit me 100% of his casts.</p>

[Balrok]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I can do very little to a mage's ability to hit me 100% of his casts.</p></blockquote><p>Something has to be able to put a dent in you.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Exur@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I can do very little to a mage's ability to hit me 100% of his casts.</p></blockquote><p>Something has to be able to put a dent in you.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>What I'm having a darn hard time understanding is how a mage casting on my hits 100% of the time, but a mage casting on another mage will get some resists.</p><p>I certainly agree that some classes should be most susceptale to other classes, this is for sure, however the shear rate at which a couple of mages can chew thru 80k hp with full wards going is simply staggering, and when it leaves me with really nothing I can gear for to mitigate it, things seem a bit off kilter.</p><p>I'm not looking to resist 100% of spells or anything, but if I focused on this, it seems reasonable I should be able to lower hit rates on me from mages to something like I dunno 80-90% successful hit. </p><p>Whatever pvp resist checks are going off of right now, I'm pretty sure its bugged, but no one from SoE seems to want to communicate on exactly what spell resists are calculated off of in pvp content.</p>

[Novusod]

<p>If it wasn't for high mage DPS healerless pvp groups would never win. It would be anoying taunts like commanding roar and divide and conquer + FD forced detarget that wins BGs.</p>

[Rahatmattata]

<p>I love when monks FD cuz that's my queue to blow reinforcement and AoEs and taunt lock everyone anyway.</p>

[Novusod]

<p>If anything the mages need more dps so the when fighters taunt lock the entire group for extended periods of time it becomes a death sententence for the tank doing it.</p>

[apwyork]

<p><cite>Malevolencexx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This has got to be the most crybaby thread I have read.... in ever.</p><p>IN EVER.</p></blockquote><p>Ah, an illusionist.  Level 39 no less.  Clearly this person speaks with much experience and we should all jump to listen to these pearls of wisdom.</p>

[Delethen]

<p><cite>apwyork wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Malevolencexx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This has got to be the most crybaby thread I have read.... in ever.</p><p>IN EVER.</p></blockquote><p>Ah, an illusionist.  Level 39 no less.  Clearly this person speaks with much experience and we should all jump to listen to these pearls of wisdom.</p></blockquote><p>Right, because after registering on the forums 7 years ago he can't possibly have another character can he.</p>

[Rahatmattata]

<p><cite>apwyork wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Malevolencexx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This has got to be the most crybaby thread I have read.... in ever.</p><p>IN EVER.</p></blockquote><p>Ah, an illusionist.  Level 39 no less.  Clearly this person speaks with much experience and we should all jump to listen to these pearls of wisdom.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not even going to respond to this....</p><p>oops.</p>

[Darq]

<p><cite>Delethen@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darq wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite> </cite></p><p>when you get the jump on dps classes it's most likely you'll win as a brig if they break out of stun you're dead tho.healers are 50/50, probably less in favor of the healer.</p></blockquote><p>You should ALWAYS have the jump playing smart.</p><p>And as a brigand with the amount of interrupts and dispels any time I was given atleast 5 seconds of being uninterrupted on the healer. That healer wasn't going to have a very good day. Not to mention how insane a fully mit debuffed player is easy to kill.</p></blockquote><p>Huge difference between a decent geared brigand in SF and now, it's night and day.  I remember back then when I bumped into Hekter or Pugi in a BG, I used to have a mini competition with myself to see just how low I could get them before I was inevitably massacred.  It usually wasn't very far.</p><p>Brigand v swash right now is probably slightly favouring the swash.</p></blockquote><p>hekter is imho the best pvp brigand. or was in dov. he was all heal proc geared too and hit like a truck. either that or he cheated. 8k hps in pvp in dov. he knew his stuff and used everything at his disposal, even tinkered swarm pets + thugs + deaggro <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> but yeah you won't see anything like this in BGs, only on Nagafen</p>

[sintextblindsu]

<p>before a good fighter could turn the tide and win the fight but now imo a good chanter will turn the tide.    tbh it makes more sense that a class that dies in 3 hits be more important than a class that never dies. </p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Darq wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Delethen@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><p>hekter is imho the best pvp brigand. or was in dov. he was all heal proc geared too and hit like a truck. either that or he cheated. 8k hps in pvp in dov. he knew his stuff and used everything at his disposal, even tinkered swarm pets + thugs + deaggro <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> but yeah you won't see anything like this in BGs, only on Nagafen</p></blockquote><p>I do remember seeing Hekter in a few matchs and I do recall he was just as dangerous as Vynie back in the day if not moreso if kept unchecked.</p>

[Loldawg]

<p><cite>sintextblindsu wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>before a good fighter could turn the tide and win the fight but now imo a good chanter will turn the tide.    tbh it makes more sense that a class that dies in 3 hits be more important than a class that never dies. </p></blockquote><p>not sure if srs?</p><p>brawlers definitely got hit this last update, but come on man, they were so amazingly op before the pvp update, of course things are going to feel a tad unfair after playing god for so long. </p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Loldawg@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>sintextblindsu wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>before a good fighter could turn the tide and win the fight but now imo a good chanter will turn the tide.    tbh it makes more sense that a class that dies in 3 hits be more important than a class that never dies. </p></blockquote><p>not sure if srs?</p><p>brawlers definitely got hit this last update, but come on man, they were so amazingly op before the pvp update, of course things are going to feel a tad unfair after playing god for so long. </p></blockquote><p>I'm going to reclarify myself after all the ranting. I'm finding my bruiser very balanced if not still pretty overpowered, My main complaint and reason for starting the rants is mainly against the warlock class doing disruption and pretty much tanking better than a brawler can in about 95% of situations. Especially the passive dodge ability that automatically triggers nearly every life if not every life for them. It feels like when going against warlocks against other mages having an attack miss or control effect resist takes a muuuch larger toll on your group than any other mage, Miss a summoner and the worst that really happens is you die, Don't stop a wizard from casting and again, Mostly you die from the taunts but no real adverse effect on the group. Enchanters can be pretty dangerous left uninterupted by they die easier than any of the mage classes. Having a warlock able to cast even for a split second due to resists or knock backs being avoid is going to spell extremely bad things even for a group of 10 players+.</p><p>I'd also definately take back what I've said elsewhere and say bruisers are far superior to monk now just for bursts of control effect immunity...</p><p>/end rant /cooled down</p>

[Delethen]

<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote> I'm finding my bruiser very balanced if not still pretty overpowered, My main complaint and reason for starting the rants is mainly against the warlock class doing disruption and pretty much tanking better than a brawler can in about 95% of situations. Especially the passive dodge ability that automatically triggers nearly every life if not every life for them.</blockquote><p>95% of the time?  That's so far off reality.  I've seen some very good bruiser tanking lately for one thing.  Besides, the Neo / Matrix dodge parry aside, once manashield is done they still die pretty fast.  Not to mention you can always knock them down to interrupt spell casting.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Delethen@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote> I'm finding my bruiser very balanced if not still pretty overpowered, My main complaint and reason for starting the rants is mainly against the warlock class doing disruption and pretty much tanking better than a brawler can in about 95% of situations. Especially the passive dodge ability that automatically triggers nearly every life if not every life for them.</blockquote><p>95% of the time?  That's so far off reality.  I've seen some very good bruiser tanking lately for one thing.  Besides, the Neo / Matrix dodge parry aside, once manashield is done they still die pretty fast.  Not to mention you can always knock them down to interrupt spell casting.</p></blockquote><p>Actually you know what? You are so far off the point it's not even funny, You can't knock them back when they have the dodge up ever. So bad and unfair...</p><p>Just kidding. I will admit I am feeling pretty ashamed, Most of these posts were mad because bad without myself realizing it. Alot of AAs weren't in heals. My clicks have been slower than they ever were and so has my attention to detail. I'm actually fine now with bruiser where it's at and really have no rage quarrels anymore since I L2Ped again. (( Atleast I think I did! )) Apoligies for the ranting and attempts of nerfs. Love you all <3</p><p>Just as I was informing others to Arcane pot Divide and Conquer I was lacking in the nox curing of plaguebringer etc.</p>

[Loldawg]

<p>agreed on warlocks - and i think when people throw around "mages" they should be more specific that if there is any issue - it's with sorcerers. chanters for sure aren't over powered and if anything need some help staying alive a bit more than they can, it's so easy to kill them. or - maybe chanters should just never pvp without a decent healer - but in bg's that's not always possible. i personally think summoners are ok - people talk about EB - but the reality is that it's on a longish timer and it will not one-shot anyone - tho it can be used to burst dps if someone is at 50% or lower and caught too far away from the healer - i dont think that's overpowered. summoners are very easy to kill.</p>

[Shredderr]

<p>Monks have never been very effective at taunting in pvp only worse now. And that is an issue for healers and dps forming premade groups and want a TANK to do a tanks job not just run around seeing how long he can stay alive by casting all their temps to do so. All I want as a Monk is the capacity to taunt and it work well for pvp/bg's group taunts aoe taunts something . I work harder on my monk than my wiz or my mystic and recieve half the marks even on a win. Had no idea 90+ marks were possible till I broke out my wiz. Noone makes a premade and wants a monk ... unless its Rotate maybe . And without a premade you will experience many days of not winning a match for hours.</p><p>Thought I was the only one who sometime took over half my day trying to complete the bg quests . It's w/e though I rolled a real tank and I guess my monk will just get a harassment role in groups , just run around and harrass the enemy .</p><p> Also noticed for my monk that even the taunts that say will lock 1 target for 3 seconds do not work hardly ever . I taunt them and it's like like they glance at me and say naw I cant hate a monk .... and go back to w/e they were previously targeting.</p>

[Rotate]

<p>Yes monks have never been effective group tank. They cant lock down the other group.  Before everyone said we were OP becuse we could surivie anything, yes that combined with dps was op Vs small numbers and solo, but we have always been the worse tank in pvp, Atleast before this we could temp tuant peeps and abosorb a burn.  Now our dps is weak, we cant lock down a group.  We try to absorb a burn we get face planted.    And people are complaining about brawlers tuanting and fd'd? lol When all you can do is annoy a group, what else is there to do! =p.  </p><p>I read peeps saying they get 80-90 tokens on dps class's. I don't have any alts, and just play my monk. I had no clue you could get that many tokens haha.</p><p>I havn't been doing bg's becuse i feel about worthless to groups.. Any other tank can do alot better job in a pvp group half afk then i can trying my best haha!</p><p>AS for 1 on 1 pvp monks are fine.  We just contribute little to nothing to group pvp. Why the hell bring a monk in your group.. just grab a real tank that can lock down group forever or get another mage dps!</p><p>I am not saying monks are weak and underpowered.  I am saying we have no place in group pvp. Makes me not want to bother going into a bg.</p><p>AS for the original post! 25k hit's were on me in bg from a zerker.. guards one ability tops around 15k i think, dont  rember.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Rotate@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes monks have never been effective group tank. They cant lock down the other group.  Before everyone said we were OP becuse we could surivie anything, yes that combined with dps was op Vs small numbers and solo, but we have always been the worse tank in pvp, Atleast before this we could temp tuant peeps and abosorb a burn.  Now our dps is weak, we cant lock down a group.  We try to absorb a burn we get face planted.    And people are complaining about brawlers tuanting and fd'd? lol When all you can do is annoy a group, what else is there to do! =p.  </p><p>I read peeps saying they get 80-90 tokens on dps class's. I don't have any alts, and just play my monk. I had no clue you could get that many tokens haha.</p><p>I havn't been doing bg's becuse i feel about worthless to groups.. Any other tank can do alot better job in a pvp group half afk then i can trying my best haha!</p><p>AS for 1 on 1 pvp monks are fine.  We just contribute little to nothing to group pvp. Why the hell bring a monk in your group.. just grab a real tank that can lock down group forever or get another mage dps!</p><p>I am not saying monks are weak and underpowered.  I am saying we have no place in group pvp. Makes me not want to bother going into a bg.</p><p>AS for the original post! 25k hit's were on me in bg from a zerker.. guards one ability tops around 15k i think, dont  rember.</p></blockquote><p>Atleast you can betray to bruiser and not lose your armor! Even PoW armor!</p>

[Rotate]

<p>I love my monk pve! lols.</p>

[apwyork]

<blockquote><p>I'm not even going to respond to this....</p><p>oops.</p></blockquote><p>It was meant to be insulting.  Just as your claim this entire thread is whining was meant by you to be insulting.  I've actually played both casters and fighters in the new battlegrounds and there are some that require addressing.  To state an entire thread by people voicing concerns as fighters is little more than crybabying just shows either ignorance in using various fighter classes or disregard of the overall gameplay.</p><p>Next time, if you have something useful to add, or a critic of a specific point, feel free to add them.  But if the best you can say is "whiniest thread ever" and that's all you have to add, save the bother and keep that to yourself.</p>