BG needs to be removed from pvp servers

[missingo]

<p>I think BGs need to be removed from pvp servers cause its killing the need to actually pvp in open world</p>

[Twyxx]

<p><cite>missingo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think BGs need to be removed from pvp servers cause its killing the need to actually pvp in open world</p></blockquote><p>You'll end up losing even more population.</p>

[missingo]

<p>how so? for real the game has become so easy to play its boring, it used to be where u had to earn all ur gear and claw for every breath in the game, now its where all ur gear gets handed to u on a silver platter</p>

[Twyxx]

<p><cite>missingo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>how so? for real the game has become so easy to play its boring, it used to be where u had to earn all ur gear and claw for every breath in the game, now its where all ur gear gets handed to u on a silver platter</p></blockquote><p>cause bgs are more action.  instant gratification pvp, even if not the same thing as open world. </p><p>and pvp gear grind right now isn't gear being handed to you.</p>

[missingo]

<p>ur not really workin for ur gear cause u dont have to actually fight at all attack once and move around and sit on ur butt get tokens thats lazy</p>

[Twyxx]

<p><cite>missingo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>ur not really workin for ur gear cause u dont have to actually fight at all attack once and move around and sit on ur butt get tokens thats lazy</p></blockquote><p>Takes a lot longer that way.  You get more for more kills, winning and getting the achievements.  If you don't like pvp or competing but just want gear to not pvp with I suppose you could do that.  Seems like a pretty poor way to have fun in a game though.</p>

[Slittherss]

<p>other than the fact that pvp is lame in this game, thats prolly the reason i don't go to BG in the first place, I'm not in top 4 raid guilds in the world (5 days of raiding is too much for people with jobs and family) so my gear is about avg raid guild quality cept one factor and I don't know if this is true anymore, but people from Nagafen have Toughness as a stat on their gear they get from raid already. So me being from Unrest in a avg raid guild can do about jack and crap to a guy with toughness built in already. No thanks rather just wait for my guild to down CM Ikiatar for shoulders. No fun with no challenge but to just log in to BG and be someone's whipping boy, thats dumb as well.</p>

[EvilAstroboy]

<p><cite>Slittherss wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>other than the fact that pvp is lame in this game, thats prolly the reason i don't go to BG in the first place, I'm not in top 4 raid guilds in the world (5 days of raiding is too much for people with jobs and family) so my gear is about avg raid guild quality cept one factor and I don't know if this is true anymore, but people from Nagafen have Toughness as a stat on their gear they get from raid already. So me being from Unrest in a avg raid guild can do about jack and crap to a guy with toughness built in already. No thanks rather just wait for my guild to down CM Ikiatar for shoulders. No fun with no challenge but to just log in to BG and be someone's whipping boy, thats dumb as well.</p></blockquote><p>Gear matters so little in PvP now it isnt funny. All my undergeared alts do fine in PvP because of how nerfed PvE stats are in PvP.</p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"><strong>[Edited because of personal attack.]</strong></span></p>

[Twyxx]

<p><cite>Daedrassil@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Gear matters so little in PvP now it isnt funny. All my undergeared alts do fine in PvP because of how nerfed PvE stats are in PvP.</p><p><span ><span style="color: #ff6600;"><strong>[Edited because of personal attack.]</strong></span></span></p></blockquote><p>Absolutely.  Almost every stat soft caps so easily there isn't much variation in gear at all.  Probably the most important stat on gear right now is STA. </p><p>And brigands are destroying in there right now, Grumice.  If pvp isn't fun to you, then pass, but your excuses don't hold up.</p>

[Metal_Starz]

<p> You have my vote. BGs suck when you are on a pvp server. If people wanted to pvp they should just go to a pvp server. I am seeing a surge of open world pvp at the moment but it sucks trying to get a group when half of my guild is doing a mindless BGs token grind. It's not fun at all. I thought this pvp update was going to be awesome but it's not. I got excited seeing that all gear would be viable for pvp again but seeing "must not be engaged in pvp combat" stuck to everything kind of kills that..lol. I've been on pvp server since day 1 so I have seen all of the changes. I guess I am one of the very few that thinks fun pvp ended after EoF.</p>

[Rahatmattata]

<p><cite>Metal_Starz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I've been on pvp server since day 1 so I have seen all of the changes. I guess I am one of the very few that thinks fun pvp ended after EoF.</p></blockquote><p>Then why stick around for another 4 years after EoF?</p>

[thephantomposter]

<p><cite>Twyxx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>missingo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think BGs need to be removed from pvp servers cause its killing the need to actually pvp in open world</p></blockquote><p>You'll end up losing even more population.</p></blockquote><p>If they got rid of BGs(also Wfs) they would get me and others like me off of the Blue servers. It would balance out or gain more in my opinion.</p>

[Dorsan]

I play on a PvP server and I like BGs. Do not remove them. They are fun.

[Applo]

<p><cite>missingo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think BGs need to be removed from pvp servers cause its killing the need to actually pvp in open world</p></blockquote><p>I agree, but it's been said since BGs first came out and there's been no indication they will be removed.</p>

[Rahatmattata]

<p>I think if you removed BGs from Nagafen, the server would be a ghost town with like 20 of you left. Not sure if you've noticed, but most of the people that BG are from Nagafen. I know if I had to chose between only able to do BG or open world PvP, I'd be on a server I can BG. I'll take epic 6v6 or 24v24 BG matches over a pointless 10v60 at WF or rolling solo questers any day.</p>

[thephantomposter]

<p><cite>Malevolencexx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote> over a pointless 10v60 at WF or rolling solo questers any day.</blockquote><p>See, I remember more than that, before WFs, I remember 20v20 in darklightwoods, caves etc. I remember Sinking Sands and KP 100v100 or the being in the 40 group vs 100 and seeing the tide change.</p><p>I remember when it used to be scary to quest on Naggy.</p><p>No risk no fun.</p><p>Hate to say it but Sony broke pvp they took the fun out, they took the surprise out.</p><p>Ditch BGs, WFs and quick travel.</p>

[Freejazzlive]

<p>It's interesting that people are complaining so much about the PvP being boring, yet they're still here, day after day after day, playing EQ2 or posting on the forums.</p>

[Applo]

<p><cite>Malevolencexx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think if you removed BGs from Nagafen, the server would be a ghost town with like 20 of you left. Not sure if you've noticed, but most of the people that BG are from Nagafen. I know if I had to chose between only able to do BG or open world PvP, I'd be on a server I can BG. I'll take epic 6v6 or 24v24 BG matches over a pointless 10v60 at WF or rolling solo questers any day.</p></blockquote><p>Nagafen already was a ghost town before this revamp.  The only thing this has done for Nagafen is bring out the raiders and locked pvp'rs to go token farming for their new pvp sets; BGs are another escape from open world pvp they can benefit from.  So people are only seen grouped in warfields or going to BGs.  If you want a fair fight go 1v1 or 6v6 in Mara. You won't see many solo people hunting each other until they feel they have a major advantage (maxed out in new gear) and with BGs, they don't have to.</p><p>As far as the BG population, I've seen a Champion's Respite 3 and somewhere between a third and a half of the players in BGs I've taken are from PvE servers.  Nagafen will continue to drive PvE people away from BGs just like they did before and have already done since GU64.  In the end, you'll have mostly what was here before the revamp, a small select number, primarily from Nagafen in BGs locked and maxed out, except this time they can 1 shot newbies who have no other way to attain tokens except to show up and fight them in BGs.  Nagafen players will have their gear faster because of WFs, so this will happen sooner than later.</p><p>Ultimately Nagafen access to BGs does nothing but discourage open world pvp and drive away the PvE population from BGs.  You know it, I know it and so does everyone else.  So the question to ask yourself is do you want SoE to continue to develop and improve BGs?  If so, then you should support Nagafen being removed from BGs; if not then you better be happy with what you have right now, because it won't be looked at again if the population continues to shrink as quickly as it will otherwise.</p>

[Freejazzlive]

<p><cite>Malevolencexx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think if you removed BGs from Nagafen, the server would be a ghost town with like 20 of you left.</p></blockquote><p>That's already true of the lower levels.</p>

[Twinbladed]

<p>Nagafen does not and did not have a gear advantage in bg's, there was one flaw that last maybe a month and it was taken care of, I don't know how many time a person has to explain that. Anyways..People pay for there own accounts, so bg's are not going anywhere, it would be wise of pvpers to play open world you get more tokens a lot faster in it, but they don't. I like it the way it is right now to be honest raiders actually come out of there cubby holes they been hiding in and I even see them shout they are good because of there skill in the game. In the end pretty much know what will happen, gear will equal out, and it's back to complaining about how unfair nagafen players have it, even though that issue never existed to start with. </p><p>Keep the bg's, if nagafen dies at least there will be someone left to shoot at. Right now even after the update people are on the same old system they been on, if the can't win they don't fight, open world used to be fun, but now people who all got used to the kylong plain zerg think that jumping into a croud of 100 people with there auto attack on it fun and it is how pvp is supposed to be. The difference in a bg and open atm, bg is random most of the time, open already has groups set up to go. </p>

[Applo]

<p><cite>Twinbladed@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Nagafen does not and did not have a gear advantage in bg's</span>, there was one flaw that last maybe a month and it was taken care of, I don't know how many time a person has to explain that. Anyways..People pay for there own accounts, so bg's are not going anywhere, it would be wise of pvpers to <span style="color: #ff0000;">play open world you get more tokens a lot faster</span> in it, but they don't.</p></blockquote><p>Not to derail the original thread but your statements contradict themselves.  More tokens in less time is an advantage for gear.</p><p>That aside, nagafen players had access to PvP ward gear and prestige items (ie, mega cure/dispell items) that BG players did not until GU64, that was quite an advantage for T4bgs.</p>

[Twinbladed]

<p><cite>Applo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Twinbladed@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Nagafen does not and did not have a gear advantage in bg's</span>, there was one flaw that last maybe a month and it was taken care of, I don't know how many time a person has to explain that. Anyways..People pay for there own accounts, so bg's are not going anywhere, it would be wise of pvpers to <span style="color: #ff0000;">play open world you get more tokens a lot faster</span> in it, but they don't.</p></blockquote><p>Not to derail the original thread but your statements contradict themselves.  More tokens in less time is an advantage for gear.</p><p>That aside, nagafen players had access to PvP ward gear and prestige items (ie, mega cure/dispell items) that BG players did not until GU64, that was quite an advantage for T4bgs.</p></blockquote><p>Umm so did every other server, not my or fault you guys don't use freedom of minds,relics, immunity gear, which mega cure item is this, I would love to see that item, less tokens in less time is if the player devotes his time to do so, which why should blue servers get that benefit in a bg when the world they play in does not even include pvp. When you say advantage, I really mean advantages, not excuses. I love how you bring up gu64 get real, even after that you still say we had a more than you guys. Like I said it's excuses, and you'll be happy right now, but when gear evens back out again, you'll complain again.</p>

[Applo]

<p>Your reading skills aren't very good.  Not even sure who you mean by 'you guys'.  I've had toons on Nagafen for years.  I'm not happy with all of the changes for Nagafen or BGs and I've stated why.  And the specifics I pointed out was regarding T4 bgs, as you quoted; relics and immunity gear does not exist for those levels.  I've had all remedies/freedom of mind/action potions on my hotbars forever and the items I mentioned were pumice stones and rune of absolution (instant dispell or curing 5 detrimental effects on you is insane).  Some of the prestige items worked in bgs, some did not.  I'm not surprised you didn't know about them though.</p><p>I'm not that concerned about the token advantage, but it is an advantage.  And the reason I want BGs removed from Nagafen are the same as everyone else that mentioned them for over a year now.  Primarily it's yet another killer of open world pvp, except far more detrimental because you can actually get PvP tokens off the server in the process.  It also drives away the PvE BG community as well, as explained earlier.</p>

[Cherri]

<p>Ok how about this.</p><p>Put PVP servers in their own BG bracket.</p><p>PVE servers vs PVE servers in BGs</p><p>and PVP servers vs PVP servers in BGs.</p><p>This way SOE wont have to worry about trying to balance tokens/gear from PVE vs PVP in BGs.</p>

[PhabiusBile]

<p>I have no clue why they didnt just make it like it was in EQ1 and put a priest of discord up in the newbie areas to select whether or not you wanted to play pvp and not have seperate servers.</p><p>And another thing would be to either add ALL items available to PVP servers to BG's or make them not work in BG arenas</p><p>If you want to see the PVE servers stick around in BG's then you need to even out the token gains and items available</p><p><table style="border: 1px solid #434575; border-collapse: collapse; clear: both; margin: 0px; width: 998px; background-image: url(http://zam.zamimg.com/eq2/i/blue/fade-dark.gif); background-color: #23233b; color: #dddcdf; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-position: 0px 20px; background-repeat: repeat no-repeat;" ><tbody><tr><td ><a class="fabled eq2-icon-float-med" href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=4155191f8b0a46a51ee4e3b5e86cb92c"><var><img src="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/images/Icons/icon_item_1946.jpg" /></var></a><a class="fabled" href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=4155191f8b0a46a51ee4e3b5e86cb92c">Essence of Discord</a></td><td >20</td><td >Potion</td></tr></tbody></table><table style="border: 1px solid #434575; border-collapse: collapse; clear: both; margin: 0px; width: 998px; background-image: url(http://zam.zamimg.com/eq2/i/blue/fade-dark.gif); background-color: #23233b; color: #dddcdf; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-position: 0px 20px; background-repeat: repeat no-repeat;" ><tbody><tr><td ><a class="fabled eq2-icon-float-med" href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=bdb1344021eb43b2bb55904fc1638dc9"><var><img src="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/images/Icons/icon_item_2917.jpg" /></var></a><a class="fabled" href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=bdb1344021eb43b2bb55904fc1638dc9">Crystal of Discord</a></td><td >20</td><td >Potion</td></tr></tbody></table><table style="border: 1px solid #434575; border-collapse: collapse; clear: both; margin: 0px; width: 998px; background-image: url(http://zam.zamimg.com/eq2/i/blue/fade-dark.gif); background-color: #23233b; color: #dddcdf; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-position: 0px 20px; background-repeat: repeat no-repeat;" ><tbody><tr><td ><a class="legendary eq2-icon-float-med" href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=7abd4cfe69699f0b62570e2b776e2ba3"><var><img src="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/images/Icons/icon_item_373.jpg" /></var></a><a class="legendary" href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=7abd4cfe69699f0b62570e2b776e2ba3">Rune of Absolution</a></td><td >10</td><td >Bauble</td></tr><tr><td ><a class="fabled eq2-icon-float-med" href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=7a490ccf80863fba322aecb5cbc743a9"><var><img src="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/images/Icons/icon_item_2935.jpg" /></var></a><a class="fabled" href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=7a490ccf80863fba322aecb5cbc743a9">Rune of Discord</a></td><td >20</td><td >Potion</td></tr><tr><td ><a class="fabled eq2-icon-float-med" href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=fe5a8208bcb96b480e7b65ba7bd62586"><var><img src="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/images/Icons/icon_item_3489.jpg" /></var></a><a class="fabled" href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=fe5a8208bcb96b480e7b65ba7bd62586">Shard of Discord</a></td><td >20</td><td >Potion</td></tr><tr><td ><a class="fabled eq2-icon-float-med" href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=cc9f04e515fddb917d40b54c19e2b388"><var><img src="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/images/Icons/icon_item_3166.jpg" /></var></a><a class="fabled" href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=cc9f04e515fddb917d40b54c19e2b388">Shield of Discord</a></td><td >20</td><td >Potion</td></tr><tr><td ><a class="fabled eq2-icon-float-med" href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=efdc0621944999cc206e0ec9631e6b28"><var><img src="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/images/Icons/icon_item_2941.jpg" /></var></a><a class="fabled" href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=efdc0621944999cc206e0ec9631e6b28">Shroud of Discord</a></td><td >20</td><td >Potion</td></tr><tr><td ><a class="fabled eq2-icon-float-med" href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=27fe6c8fef5ac1554f77e7adf9a5ce21"><var><img src="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/images/Icons/icon_item_2800.jpg" /></var></a><a class="fabled" href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=27fe6c8fef5ac1554f77e7adf9a5ce21">Tear of Discord</a></td><td >20</td><td >Potion</td></tr></tbody></table><table style="border: 1px solid #434575; border-collapse: collapse; clear: both; margin: 0px; width: 998px; background-image: url(http://zam.zamimg.com/eq2/i/blue/fade-dark.gif); background-color: #23233b; color: #dddcdf; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-position: 0px 20px; background-repeat: repeat no-repeat;" ><tbody><tr><td ><a class="legendary eq2-icon-float-med" href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=4287eb4ad813e4898d7f40f03b4f1ea3"><var><img src="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/images/Icons/icon_item_2538.jpg" /></var></a><a class="legendary" href="http://eq2.zam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=4287eb4ad813e4898d7f40f03b4f1ea3">Pumice Stone</a></td><td >10</td><td ><p>Bauble</p></td></tr></tbody></table></p>

[Twinbladed]

<p>This is what I'm talking about, get rid of those items anyways you can use them 1 time an have to restock they are not the difference between winning or losing a bg at all. Remove all the excuses. Bg's last several minute's not seconds, if you think those items are the win or lose factor and it is so unfair then why do you even do bg's at all? Not one of those items makes you a winning player. Even at t4. I agree get rid of them because most the people don't use them anyways. 1 charge items that don't even last that long is a major advantage lol. Anything else unfair? This argument has become a joke. </p>

[Freejazzlive]

<p><cite>PhabiusBile wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have no clue why they didnt just make it like it was in EQ1 and put a priest of discord up in the newbie areas to select whether or not you wanted to play pvp and not have seperate servers..</p></blockquote><p>1. Blue server players would click on the PoD & become PvP enabled, which caused all sorts of silly problems.</p><p>2. EQ1 released its first PvP server, Rallos Zek, about 2 weeks after going live. Eventually, it introduced 3 more PvP servers, which had slightly different rule sets from even Rallos Zek. Now, they're back to just one PvP server, but the fact is they still introduced separate PvP servers.</p><p>3. There's no real point to being a "red" name on a Blue server.</p><p>So, there are 3 reasons why they didn't do it in EQ2, & why they almost certainly won't do it in EQ Next.</p>

[Freejazzlive]

<p><cite>Cuddlewards@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Put PVP servers in their own BG bracket..</p></blockquote><p>You mean, both of them?</p>

[Yimway]

<p>All I hear is:</p><p>I like open world pvp.</p><p>Don't let people on my server earn marks/gear not doing open world pvp.</p><p>Force them to play my way so I have more people to pvp with.</p><p>---</p><p>I question how much life dedicated pvp servers have with the burn out rate and the lack of new blood.  Certainly all of the game combats these issues, but the resources available to sustain open world pvp servers seems to be well below what is needed to sustain players.</p><p>BGs are fun when you've done everythng else.  With no reason to do dungeons anymore, I'm thrilled there are working BGs to spend time playing.  I would be disapointed if I couldn't kill naggy people anymore, I'm against this idea.</p>

[Daalilama]

<p>TBH the only major advantage pvp server players have as a who was and is skill and coordination....we've had to do more with less with regards to pvp gear/updates since soe very rarely even attempts to try serious pvp server updates (something about pve servers having a fit that test gets changed for pvp enabled...go figure).  However with that said some of the pve players are showing a growing amount of skill and coordination and it varries...I've seen a equalibrium group get dominated for most of a gear bg (cough ego...) by a group from displaced (naggy exile guild).  Did the displaced group have some amazing gear...ahh no they were clearly outgeared by equalibrium...maybe they had a higher amount of hp...no again...it was simple coordination and skill which had them winning most of the fight...in the end that pve group after they decided to work together and coordinate came back to win but it was an uphill fight....</p><p>The level of ones ability in pvp or bg's doesnt equate to their guild tag (I've seen some "lesser" pve guild groups with an amazing amount of coordination and skill..but again it varries).</p><p>As to the potential to gain more pvp tokens in open world pvp over the lesser amount in bg's tbh thats how it should be(we are the only pvp server left) however as pve players may not be aware the server lag during a warfield on naggy tend to make it almost a turn based game at that point while we have the potential to make more tokens its generally harder than you realize.  BTW warfields are not up 24/7 its usually every 2 hours compare that to bg's which can be run basicly in 5 mins with a decent group so while the pvp server has the potential for more tokens currently bg's are close to that simply because they can be run rather quickly.</p>

[Daalilama]

<p>TBH the only major advantage pvp server players have had was and is skill and coordination....we've had to do more with less with regards to pvp gear/updates since soe very rarely even attempts to try serious pvp server updates (something about pve servers having a fit that test gets changed for pvp enabled...go figure).  However with that said some of the pve players are showing a growing amount of skill and coordination and it varries...I've heard a equalibrium group get dominated for most of a gear bg (cough ego...) by a group from displaced (naggy exile guild).  Did the displaced group have some amazing gear...ahh no they were clearly outgeared by equalibrium...maybe they had a higher amount of hp...no again...it was simple coordination and skill which had them winning most of the fight...in the end that pve group after they decided to work together and coordinate came back to win but it was an uphill fight....</p><p>The level of ones ability in pvp or bg's doesnt equate to their guild tag (I've seen some "lesser" pve guild groups with an amazing amount of coordination and skill..but again it varries).</p><p>As to the potential to gain more pvp tokens in open world pvp over the lesser amount in bg's tbh thats how it should be(we are the only pvp server left) however as pve players may not be aware the server lag during a warfield on naggy tend to make it almost a turn based game at that point while we have the potential to make more tokens its generally harder than you realize.  BTW warfields are not up 24/7 its usually every 2 hours compare that to bg's which can be run basicly in 5 mins with a decent group so while the pvp server has the potential for more tokens currently bg's are close to that simply because they can be run rather quickly.</p>

[Metal_Starz]

<p><cite>Malevolencexx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Metal_Starz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I've been on pvp server since day 1 so I have seen all of the changes. I guess I am one of the very few that thinks fun pvp ended after EoF.</p></blockquote><p>Then why stick around for another 4 years after EoF?</p></blockquote><p> I actually ragequit for awhile a few weeks after BGs came out. Primarily because of the PvE people crying they were getting owned and having our gear nerfed, needing to have 3 sets of gear(BG, Open World, and PvE), BGs weren't very fun for me, and the biggest reason was it killed a lot of open world pvp which I loved. I came back to the game with a different mindset because I still love this game and I love to raid. I put PvP aside and just had fun playing the game. This update got me pumped about pvp all over again but I was obviously thinking too highly of it and it let me down. There are lots of Exile and FP making grps to go open world but most of my friends choose to sit in BGs. Anyway, I stuck around because I still love the game and have/had hopes on better changes.</p>

[Applo]

<p><cite>Twinbladed@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is what I'm talking about, get rid of those items anyways you can use them 1 time an have to restock they are not the difference between winning or losing a bg at all. Remove all the excuses. Bg's last several minute's not seconds, if you think those items are the win or lose factor and it is so unfair then why do you even do bg's at all? Not one of those items makes you a winning player. Even at t4. I agree get rid of them because most the people don't use them anyways. 1 charge items that don't even last that long is a major advantage lol. Anything else unfair? This argument has become a joke. </p></blockquote><p>FYI, Rune of absolution and Pumice stones have 5 charges.  Those items are ground breaking in PvP and BGs when used by the right person at the right time.  Since GU64, the ward gear and those items do not make much of an impact because of the insane dmg output of everyone.  I was just letting you know that pretty much everything you've typed so far is easily proven to be wrong.</p><p><cite>Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As to the potential to gain more pvp tokens in open world pvp over the lesser amount in bg's tbh thats how it should be(we are the only pvp server left) however as pve players may not be aware the server lag during a warfield on naggy tend to make it almost a turn based game at that point while we have the potential to make more tokens its generally harder than you realize.  BTW warfields are not up 24/7 its usually every 2 hours compare that to bg's which can be run basicly in 5 mins with a decent group so while the pvp server has the potential for more tokens currently bg's are close to that simply because they can be run rather quickly.</p></blockquote><p>I average about 8 times as many tokens in a WF as a BG.  As far as 5min BGs, other than the rare Ganak, that does not happen nor is it possible.  And even in Ganak your token count is horrible when you just cap the flag three times immediately.</p><p>On a sidenote, why are you even posting in this section Daalilama?  You made fun of BGs on test and hijacked every single post about them raging about cures.  Did you at least get what <em>you </em>wanted?</p>

[Twinbladed]

<p><cite>Applo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Twinbladed@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is what I'm talking about, get rid of those items anyways you can use them 1 time an have to restock they are not the difference between winning or losing a bg at all. Remove all the excuses. Bg's last several minute's not seconds, if you think those items are the win or lose factor and it is so unfair then why do you even do bg's at all? Not one of those items makes you a winning player. Even at t4. I agree get rid of them because most the people don't use them anyways. 1 charge items that don't even last that long is a major advantage lol. Anything else unfair? This argument has become a joke. </p></blockquote><p>FYI, Rune of absolution and Pumice stones have 5 charges.  Those items are ground breaking in PvP and BGs when used by the right person at the right time.  Since GU64, the ward gear and those items do not make much of an impact because of the insane dmg output of everyone.  I was just letting you know that pretty much everything you've typed so far is easily proven to be wrong.</p><p><cite>Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As to the potential to gain more pvp tokens in open world pvp over the lesser amount in bg's tbh thats how it should be(we are the only pvp server left) however as pve players may not be aware the server lag during a warfield on naggy tend to make it almost a turn based game at that point while we have the potential to make more tokens its generally harder than you realize.  BTW warfields are not up 24/7 its usually every 2 hours compare that to bg's which can be run basicly in 5 mins with a decent group so while the pvp server has the potential for more tokens currently bg's are close to that simply because they can be run rather quickly.</p></blockquote><p>I average about 8 times as many tokens in a WF as a BG.  As far as 5min BGs, other than the rare Ganak, that does not happen nor is it possible.  And even in Ganak your token count is horrible when you just cap the flag three times immediately.</p><p>On a sidenote, why are you even posting in this section Daalilama?  You made fun of BGs on test and hijacked every single post about them raging about cures.  Did you at least get what <em>you </em>wanted?</p></blockquote><p>If those two items make you lose, then you were lost at the door. Stop crying all the time, this is what happen to competitive playing, the playerbase is candy coated, and you end up with players that have a excuse for everything, feel the need to nerf everything, feel the need to point to someone else's class as a excuse as to why they can't manage, or they go and put it off on sony, this is why I said this talk is pretty much a joke. I see everything to do with crying, I see 0 to do with how to adapt. Nagafen since you have been you should know was neglected for a very long time in terms of pvp. I honestly see why, if I was a dev, and I saw how much people could not adjust themselve's to the game, I wouldn't take the time to play with it either. In the end nothing that is done is going to be good enough for the average complainer. People will always point a finger to everything around them but themselve's</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Applo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> As far as 5min BGs, other than the rare Ganak, that does not happen nor is it possible.  And even in Ganak your token count is horrible when you just cap the flag three times immediately.</p></blockquote><p>I dunno man, I had a number of them that finished in 5 last night, and almost none of them went to 10 mins.</p><p>There are alot of really squishy people in them atm.</p>

[Dorsan]

<p><cite>missingo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think BGs need to be removed from pvp servers cause its killing the need to actually pvp in open world</p></blockquote><p>I don't know why you people keep thinking that removal of bgs would actually help open world pvp. I am one of the people that only log in to raid and play in bgs. If they would remove bgs, I would only log in to raid. You still wouldn't see me in the open world PvP, because open world PvP is a huge warfield lagfest with raid vs raid LvP (lag vs players). I don't enjoy it, so I refuse to participate. If there would be actual questlines or any objectives that would scatter people to different zones instead of placing every single person into the same zone at the exact same time, I would be all over it. But warfields and PvP hotzones are not open world PvP for me. I like to hunt and being hunted. I don't like being told 'go there and fight that raid'. I never will.</p><p>There might be a -slight- increase of population at warfields if you'd remove BGs from Nagafen, but I don't think it is worth to limit my gameplay only so that you get 2-3 more people in your lagfest.</p>

[Twinbladed]

<p><cite>Dorsan@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>missingo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think BGs need to be removed from pvp servers cause its killing the need to actually pvp in open world</p></blockquote><p>I don't know why you people keep thinking that removal of bgs would actually help open world pvp. I am one of the people that only log in to raid and play in bgs. If they would remove bgs, I would only log in to raid. You still wouldn't see me in the open world PvP, because open world PvP is a huge warfield lagfest with raid vs raid LvP (lag vs players). I don't enjoy it, so I refuse to participate. If there would be actual questlines or any objectives that would scatter people to different zones instead of placing every single person into the same zone at the exact same time, I would be all over it. But warfields and PvP hotzones are not open world PvP for me. I like to hunt and being hunted. I don't like being told 'go there and fight that raid'. I never will.</p><p>There might be a -slight- increase of population at warfields if you'd remove BGs from Nagafen, but I don't think it is worth to limit my gameplay only so that you get 2-3 more people in your lagfest.</p></blockquote><p>Nail on the head^</p>

[japanfour]

<p><cite>Cuddlewards@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok how about this.</p><p>Put PVP servers in their own BG bracket.</p><p>PVE servers vs PVE servers in BGs</p><p>and PVP servers vs PVP servers in BGs.</p><p>This way SOE wont have to worry about trying to balance tokens/gear from PVE vs PVP in BGs.</p></blockquote><p>yeah offer a solution for something that isnt the real problem. If people are poor at pvp, they gotta learn by failing, not by being coddled into a bracket of the same noobs. You learn by playing against people who are better than you, not with people who are on your level.</p><p>As far as nagafen players having an advantage, I dont think this is true currently, I think the seasoned player on nagafen knows alot more about combat mechanics than the regular blue server player, if that player knows how to survive in the open world of course, get out of an engagement to survive another day, etc. Most players in this game want to consistently play mindlessly, and pvp is not for that kind of player. We arent killing mobs on scripts, this is player verses player, and no ease or instant gratification should be a part of that aspect of a game IMO.</p><p>BG doesnt need to be removed either, we already cant send xserver tells on nagafen, not allowing us to atleast chat to other people in champions respite and removing BGs would be another stake in nagafens back. To be honest its the most interesting server in this game, the only place where open pvp can happen in eq2. People just are afraid of playing here because knowing a 13 year old behind a PC is doing things to your corpse every time you die while questing is touch for some to handle. SOE needs to find a way to get people back into open world PVP, and its not by taking away, its by giving us a reason to go into the open world.</p>

[Darkholis]

<p><cite>japanfour wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cuddlewards@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok how about this.</p><p>Put PVP servers in their own BG bracket.</p><p>PVE servers vs PVE servers in BGs</p><p>and PVP servers vs PVP servers in BGs.</p><p>This way SOE wont have to worry about trying to balance tokens/gear from PVE vs PVP in BGs.</p></blockquote><p>yeah offer a solution for something that isnt the real problem. If people are poor at pvp, they gotta learn by failing, not by being coddled into a bracket of the same noobs. You learn by playing against people who are better than you, not with people who are on your level.</p><p>As far as nagafen players having an advantage, I dont think this is true currently, <span style="color: #ffff00;">I think the seasoned player on nagafen knows alot more about combat mechanics than the regular blue server player</span>, if that player knows how to survive in the open world of course, get out of an engagement to survive another day, etc. <span style="color: #ffff00;">Most players in this game want to consistently play mindlessly, and pvp is not for that kind of player.</span> We arent killing mobs on scripts, this is player verses player, and no ease or instant gratification should be a part of that aspect of a game IMO.</p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">ROFL, dumbest thing I've heard in a while. I agree, there is a lot of players can't stand PvP, on my side I love it, besides loging for raids, there is NADA to do on a blue server. </span></p><p>BG doesnt need to be removed either, we already cant send xserver tells on nagafen, not allowing us to atleast chat to other people in champions respite and removing BGs would be another stake in nagafens back. To be honest its the most interesting server in this game, the only place where open pvp can happen in eq2. People just are afraid of playing here because knowing a 13 year old behind a PC is doing things to your corpse every time you die while questing is touch for some to handle. <span style="color: #ffff00;">SOE needs to find a way to get people back into open world PVP, and its not by taking away, its by giving us a reason to go into the open world.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">Funny, you're shooting yourself in the foot with your own words. BGs is the main reason why Open World PvP is dead along with obsoletes mechanics. Removing BGs won't help Open PvP, gimme a break. I have few mid-level toons on naggy and the only real chance to kills some players were at warfield. Now that those are gone for revamp, there is nobody to kill at those levels since everybody rush for end-game AND/OR is hidding in BGs. Solution is quite simple tho, with the actual PvP revamp, stuff is much better than RoK to DoV era. SOE juts need to remove BGs from Nagafen and keep the BG vendor in-game so that those who actually do Open World PvP can be rewarded accordingly. Another cool feature I'd see would be the introduction of PvP armor set per faction. So Good, Evil and Exiled.</span></p></blockquote>

[Rahatmattata]

<p>I get the theory that removing BGs would force players into open PvP to earn tokens and get the new pvp gear. But I suspect the reality is players would transfer off Nagafen in droves if they couldn't BG. Why? Because BG is more fun than WF, it's more fun than searching all over the world for a quester or someone to PK, and it's more fun than chasing people that don't want to fight on flying mounts.</p><p>What made PvP fun was running into another group in a contested dungeon, jacking them, then yanking their named mob. Doing WF, and rolling random scrubs.... not so much. Setting up 1v1 or 6v6 seems sterile and bland.</p>

[japanfour]

<p><cite>Darkholis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>japanfour wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cuddlewards@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok how about this.</p><p>Put PVP servers in their own BG bracket.</p><p>PVE servers vs PVE servers in BGs</p><p>and PVP servers vs PVP servers in BGs.</p><p>This way SOE wont have to worry about trying to balance tokens/gear from PVE vs PVP in BGs.</p></blockquote><p>yeah offer a solution for something that isnt the real problem. If people are poor at pvp, they gotta learn by failing, not by being coddled into a bracket of the same noobs. You learn by playing against people who are better than you, not with people who are on your level.</p><p>As far as nagafen players having an advantage, I dont think this is true currently, <span style="color: #ffff00;">I think the seasoned player on nagafen knows alot more about combat mechanics than the regular blue server player</span>, if that player knows how to survive in the open world of course, get out of an engagement to survive another day, etc. <span style="color: #ffff00;">Most players in this game want to consistently play mindlessly, and pvp is not for that kind of player.</span> We arent killing mobs on scripts, this is player verses player, and no ease or instant gratification should be a part of that aspect of a game IMO.</p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">ROFL, dumbest thing I've heard in a while. I agree, there is a lot of players can't stand PvP, on my side I love it, besides loging for raids, there is NADA to do on a blue server. </span></p><p>BG doesnt need to be removed either, we already cant send xserver tells on nagafen, not allowing us to atleast chat to other people in champions respite and removing BGs would be another stake in nagafens back. To be honest its the most interesting server in this game, the only place where open pvp can happen in eq2. People just are afraid of playing here because knowing a 13 year old behind a PC is doing things to your corpse every time you die while questing is touch for some to handle. <span style="color: #ffff00;">SOE needs to find a way to get people back into open world PVP, and its not by taking away, its by giving us a reason to go into the open world.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">Funny, you're shooting yourself in the foot with your own words. BGs is the main reason why Open World PvP is dead along with obsoletes mechanics. Removing BGs won't help Open PvP, gimme a break. I have few mid-level toons on naggy and the only real chance to kills some players were at warfield. Now that those are gone for revamp, there is nobody to kill at those levels since everybody rush for end-game AND/OR is hidding in BGs. Solution is quite simple tho, with the actual PvP revamp, stuff is much better than RoK to DoV era. SOE juts need to remove BGs from Nagafen and keep the BG vendor in-game so that those who actually do Open World PvP can be rewarded accordingly. Another cool feature I'd see would be the introduction of PvP armor set per faction. So Good, Evil and Exiled.</span></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>Why is that dumb? I have fought many people from nagafen, and blue servers in open world pvp and BGs. No player that wasnt originally from nagafen can annoy you better. Trust that. And if they can, chances are they played on nagafen for a bit. I know there are exceptions to this rule that you will be more than grateful to point out of course, thanks in advance.</p><p>Sure, call it shooting myself in the foot(holyfoot!). I just dont support the idea of depraving a server of anything that has issues with population in the first place. I mean EVERY person doesnt play like the majority, so I cant suggest changes forcing people to play differently( if I was to suggest things that pertain to me I know for sure everyone wouldnt agree with it because not everyone is playing at my level). Thats why I suggest some sort of incentive for consistent open world pvp for everyone. Its a general and vague idea open for interpretation of course, but it can apply to every level and tier.</p><p>I have mid level toons on nagafen, as well as toons performing at the top tier. I dont think that you playing a mid level toon or two constitutes as a clear view for everyone on how nagafen is operating or open world pvp should be. The fact that pvp gear is the same for all factions is a great balancing thing. PVP stats are too nerfed to give 3 factions with 3 sets of armor, that would just increase the time sync on nagafen, and make blue servers even more mad/biased. I'm sure they could create 3 faction merchants for you rename the armor and give it the same stats though, I just dont think its relevant at the current moment.</p><p>As far as why open world pvp is dead compared to what it used to be, I dont think that the biggest reason is BGs. I saw a MASSIVE exodus when they revamped fame during TSO. During that time SOE had offered alot of solutions to PVP and none really worked well. So naturally more and more people stopped playing here because of the PVP gear and PVE gear problems. I mean it really sucks getting rolled because you are in combat because you cant switch to pvp gear. It was a source of frustration which there was no response, and I think that ultimately killed the playerbase on nagafen. I believe BGs kind of assisted with the decrease in population, but atleast it lets players that have stuck it out on nagafen have a source of communication with other servers, as well as an opportunity to gauge themselves against other servers. If you havent noticed. Nagafen is an Isolated server. Increasing the isolation By disabiling BGs may get some people to come here in the short term, I just dont think its going to give any long term growth to nagafen and might make people leave to other servers. If anything nagafen needs unique incentives that no other server offers that cant give any advantages in BGs over others.</p><p>Open world pvp used to be an amazing meta-game in eq2, one that made people CHOOSE nagafen over any other server. We dont need to take away, we just got a PVP revamp, and I think it needs to be BUILT on, and not taken away from. I just dont think that taking things away is the key to growth in a game. Nagafen needs more exclusivity, new ideas, etc. Its the only pvp server in this game after all. The fact that you suggest new gear already shows no open world incentive, I just dont think you know whats up.</p>

[Darkholis]

<p><cite>japanfour wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkholis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>japanfour wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cuddlewards@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok how about this.</p><p>Put PVP servers in their own BG bracket.</p><p>PVE servers vs PVE servers in BGs</p><p>and PVP servers vs PVP servers in BGs.</p><p>This way SOE wont have to worry about trying to balance tokens/gear from PVE vs PVP in BGs.</p></blockquote><p>yeah offer a solution for something that isnt the real problem. If people are poor at pvp, they gotta learn by failing, not by being coddled into a bracket of the same noobs. You learn by playing against people who are better than you, not with people who are on your level.</p><p>As far as nagafen players having an advantage, I dont think this is true currently, <span style="color: #ffff00;">I think the seasoned player on nagafen knows alot more about combat mechanics than the regular blue server player</span>, if that player knows how to survive in the open world of course, get out of an engagement to survive another day, etc. <span style="color: #ffff00;">Most players in this game want to consistently play mindlessly, and pvp is not for that kind of player.</span> We arent killing mobs on scripts, this is player verses player, and no ease or instant gratification should be a part of that aspect of a game IMO.</p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">ROFL, dumbest thing I've heard in a while. I agree, there is a lot of players can't stand PvP, on my side I love it, besides loging for raids, there is NADA to do on a blue server. </span></p><p>BG doesnt need to be removed either, we already cant send xserver tells on nagafen, not allowing us to atleast chat to other people in champions respite and removing BGs would be another stake in nagafens back. To be honest its the most interesting server in this game, the only place where open pvp can happen in eq2. People just are afraid of playing here because knowing a 13 year old behind a PC is doing things to your corpse every time you die while questing is touch for some to handle. <span style="color: #ffff00;">SOE needs to find a way to get people back into open world PVP, and its not by taking away, its by giving us a reason to go into the open world.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">Funny, you're shooting yourself in the foot with your own words. BGs is the main reason why Open World PvP is dead along with obsoletes mechanics. Removing BGs won't help Open PvP, gimme a break. I have few mid-level toons on naggy and the only real chance to kills some players were at warfield. Now that those are gone for revamp, there is nobody to kill at those levels since everybody rush for end-game AND/OR is hidding in BGs. Solution is quite simple tho, with the actual PvP revamp, stuff is much better than RoK to DoV era. SOE juts need to remove BGs from Nagafen and keep the BG vendor in-game so that those who actually do Open World PvP can be rewarded accordingly. Another cool feature I'd see would be the introduction of PvP armor set per faction. So Good, Evil and Exiled.</span></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>Why is that dumb? I have fought many people from nagafen, and blue servers in open world pvp and BGs. No player that wasnt originally from nagafen can annoy you better. Trust that. And if they can, chances are they played on nagafen for a bit. I know there are exceptions to this rule that you will be more than grateful to point out of course, thanks in advance.</p><p>Sure, call it shooting myself in the foot(holyfoot!). I just dont support the idea of depraving a server of anything that has issues with population in the first place. I mean EVERY person doesnt play like the majority, so I cant suggest changes forcing people to play differently( if I was to suggest things that pertain to me I know for sure everyone wouldnt agree with it because not everyone is playing at my level). Thats why I suggest some sort of incentive for consistent open world pvp for everyone. Its a general and vague idea open for interpretation of course, but it can apply to every level and tier.</p><p>I have mid level toons on nagafen, as well as toons performing at the top tier. I dont think that you playing a mid level toon or two constitutes as a clear view for everyone on how nagafen is operating or open world pvp should be. The fact that pvp gear is the same for all factions is a great balancing thing. PVP stats are too nerfed to give 3 factions with 3 sets of armor, that would just increase the time sync on nagafen, and make blue servers even more mad/biased. I'm sure they could create 3 faction merchants for you rename the armor and give it the same stats though, I just dont think its relevant at the current moment.</p><p>As far as why open world pvp is dead compared to what it used to be, I dont think that the biggest reason is BGs. I saw a MASSIVE exodus when they revamped fame during TSO. During that time SOE had offered alot of solutions to PVP and none really worked well. So naturally more and more people stopped playing here because of the PVP gear and PVE gear problems. I mean it really sucks getting rolled because you are in combat because you cant switch to pvp gear. <span style="color: #00ff00;">On my raid tanks, I have gear+stance on macro that can be switched during combat in a heartbeat. Should be able to do the same in PvP combat.</span> It was a source of frustration which there was no response, and I think that ultimately killed the playerbase on nagafen. I believe BGs kind of assisted with the decrease in population, but atleast it lets players that have stuck it out on nagafen have a source of communication with other servers, as well as an opportunity to gauge themselves against other servers. If you havent noticed. Nagafen is an Isolated server. <span style="color: #00ff00;">Not as isolated as Firiona Vie used to be in EQ1 when you had to type duting hours to increase the language of your char.</span> Increasing the isolation By disabiling BGs may get some people to come here in the short term, I just dont think its going to give any long term growth to nagafen and might make people leave to other servers. If anything nagafen needs unique incentives that no other server offers that cant give any advantages in BGs over others. <span style="color: #00ff00;">Maybe it's just me but SOE should disable the possibility to transfer a toon from a blue server up to Nagafen. Just plain dumb concept to let someone give thousands plats and full equipement to a new toon before transfering...my 2cp worth.</span></p><p>Open world pvp used to be an amazing meta-game in eq2, one that made people CHOOSE nagafen over any other server. We dont need to take away, we just got a PVP revamp, and I think it needs to be BUILT on, and not taken away from. I just dont think that taking things away is the key to growth in a game. Nagafen needs more exclusivity, new ideas, etc. <span style="color: #00ff00;">They should bring back EQ1 system where you could grab items off the player along with money. that would actually motivate peeps to hunt PCs/NPCs in group zones for their loot. </span>Its the only pvp server in this game after all. <span style="color: #00ff00;">Not actually right, Harla Dar is the second PvP server in EQ2.</span> The fact that you suggest new gear already shows no open world incentive, I just dont think you know whats up.</p></blockquote>

[japanfour]

<p><cite>Darkholis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>japanfour wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Why is that dumb? I have fought many people from nagafen, and blue servers in open world pvp and BGs. No player that wasnt originally from nagafen can annoy you better. Trust that. And if they can, chances are they played on nagafen for a bit. I know there are exceptions to this rule that you will be more than grateful to point out of course, thanks in advance.</p><p>Sure, call it shooting myself in the foot(holyfoot!). I just dont support the idea of depraving a server of anything that has issues with population in the first place. I mean EVERY person doesnt play like the majority, so I cant suggest changes forcing people to play differently( if I was to suggest things that pertain to me I know for sure everyone wouldnt agree with it because not everyone is playing at my level). Thats why I suggest some sort of incentive for consistent open world pvp for everyone. Its a general and vague idea open for interpretation of course, but it can apply to every level and tier.</p><p>I have mid level toons on nagafen, as well as toons performing at the top tier. I dont think that you playing a mid level toon or two constitutes as a clear view for everyone on how nagafen is operating or open world pvp should be. The fact that pvp gear is the same for all factions is a great balancing thing. PVP stats are too nerfed to give 3 factions with 3 sets of armor, that would just increase the time sync on nagafen, and make blue servers even more mad/biased. I'm sure they could create 3 faction merchants for you rename the armor and give it the same stats though, I just dont think its relevant at the current moment.</p><p>As far as why open world pvp is dead compared to what it used to be, I dont think that the biggest reason is BGs. I saw a MASSIVE exodus when they revamped fame during TSO. During that time SOE had offered alot of solutions to PVP and none really worked well. So naturally more and more people stopped playing here because of the PVP gear and PVE gear problems. I mean it really sucks getting rolled because you are in combat because you cant switch to pvp gear. <span style="color: #00ff00;">On my raid tanks, I have gear+stance on macro that can be switched during combat in a heartbeat. Should be able to do the same in PvP combat.</span> It was a source of frustration which there was no response, and I think that ultimately killed the playerbase on nagafen. I believe BGs kind of assisted with the decrease in population, but atleast it lets players that have stuck it out on nagafen have a source of communication with other servers, as well as an opportunity to gauge themselves against other servers. If you havent noticed. Nagafen is an Isolated server. <span style="color: #00ff00;">Not as isolated as Firiona Vie used to be in EQ1 when you had to type duting hours to increase the language of your char.</span> Increasing the isolation By disabiling BGs may get some people to come here in the short term, I just dont think its going to give any long term growth to nagafen and might make people leave to other servers. If anything nagafen needs unique incentives that no other server offers that cant give any advantages in BGs over others. <span style="color: #00ff00;">Maybe it's just me but SOE should disable the possibility to transfer a toon from a blue server up to Nagafen. Just plain dumb concept to let someone give thousands plats and full equipement to a new toon before transfering...my 2cp worth.</span></p><p>Open world pvp used to be an amazing meta-game in eq2, one that made people CHOOSE nagafen over any other server. We dont need to take away, we just got a PVP revamp, and I think it needs to be BUILT on, and not taken away from. I just dont think that taking things away is the key to growth in a game. Nagafen needs more exclusivity, new ideas, etc. <span style="color: #00ff00;">They should bring back EQ1 system where you could grab items off the player along with money. that would actually motivate peeps to hunt PCs/NPCs in group zones for their loot. </span>Its the only pvp server in this game after all. <span style="color: #00ff00;">Not actually right, Harla Dar is the second PvP server in EQ2.</span> The fact that you suggest new gear already shows no open world incentive, I just dont think you know whats up.</p></blockquote></blockquote><p>Gear macros dont work when you are engaged. try again.</p><p>Firiona vie was an isolated server buring the BOOM of MMOS, we are here on eq2 left with the residual effects. are you seriously going to compare the two? The point is the MMO consumers are spread thin compared to when they have 1-3 games to play. This is why we dont need isolation, or a forceful way to do anything, we need an ACTUAL reason to do it instead.</p><p>Its kind of hard for SOE to disable server transfers now, not to mention that would severely hinder any competative raiding guild on the server. Players can transfer here and enjoy what nagafen has to offer if they please without having to reinvest time into another toon they probably already have. They could however limit coin, or put restrictions on transferring to nagafen. ONCE again a more viable solution as opposed to just removing the privelidge.</p><p>I would like it if there was some sort of looting ofp layers where I actually got to choose like eq1, but I doubt it will be that way. EQ1 is a more hardcore game compared to this pvp wise. I played on RZ and sullon, it was WAY ruthless, and way more rage inducing. On the other hand it was very rewarding when you were successful.</p><p>I apologize about the only pvp server statement, I was wrong. My opinions on giving exclusivity to pvp servers still stands though.</p>

[Darkholis]

<p>Not here to put oil on the fire but gear swap macro in-combat always worked fine for me.</p>

[japanfour]

<p><cite>Darkholis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Not here to put oil on the fire but gear swap macro in-combat always worked fine for me.</p></blockquote><p>none at all, I dont know if this is/was a bug or not ( I Transferred a toon from extended to play as my main on nagafen ) Whenever I was in skyshrine and people would roll on me, I tried a gear macro, which I have, and it would give me a error, saying I had to wait 4 seconds to put on gear, in between my equip macros this would either: A) put random pvp gear pieces on me in my macro but not all of them. B) Put none of the armor pieces on C) Rarely actually put all the armor on in my macro. This isnt exactly the kind of result you would call working. Once again I dont know if I suck at making a macro or what. Long story short I just started tanking the zone in pvp gear.</p>

[rubistar]

<p>I totally agree. Nagafen is not fun in the Bgs, they not only have better gear but interestingly enough half the time you cant target them. hmm how does that happen. I wont even play gears anymore, it's not fun.</p>

[Peak]

<p><cite>rubistar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I totally agree. Nagafen is not fun in the Bgs, they not only have better gear but interestingly enough half the time you cant target them. hmm how does that happen. I wont even play gears anymore, it's not fun.</p></blockquote><p>This post makes absolutely no sense.</p><p>You should take some time and work on understanding PVP mechanics better before posting.</p>

[Delethen]

<p><cite>japanfour wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darkholis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Not here to put oil on the fire but gear swap macro in-combat always worked fine for me.</p></blockquote><p>none at all, I dont know if this is/was a bug or not ( I Transferred a toon from extended to play as my main on nagafen ) Whenever I was in skyshrine and people would roll on me, I tried a gear macro, which I have, and it would give me a error, saying I had to wait 4 seconds to put on gear, in between my equip macros this would either: A) put random pvp gear pieces on me in my macro but not all of them. B) Put none of the armor pieces on C) Rarely actually put all the armor on in my macro. This isnt exactly the kind of result you would call working. Once again I dont know if I suck at making a macro or what. Long story short I just started tanking the zone in pvp gear.</p></blockquote><p>Only items you can swap in combat are weapons as far as I know.  Anything else will give you the message you can't swap it while you're engaged.</p>

[Darq]

<p><cite>Twyxx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>missingo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think BGs need to be removed from pvp servers cause its killing the need to actually pvp in open world</p></blockquote><p>You'll end up losing even more population.</p></blockquote><p>I logged on yesterday, /who all freeport side 97 players. It won't matter much.</p>

[Seliri]

<p><cite>Darq wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Twyxx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>missingo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think BGs need to be removed from pvp servers cause its killing the need to actually pvp in open world</p></blockquote><p>You'll end up losing even more population.</p></blockquote><p>I logged on yesterday, /who all freeport side 97 players. It won't matter much.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Gonna have to agree here</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Also agree that after the nerf to the PvP rank system (botched fame decay) was when the mass exodus from Nagafen began.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Maybe do everything in the 45 PoAfEP, & if all of that doesnt work to stimulate open world PvP, then try limiting battlegrounds! =]</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">But SOE's budget is weak for EQ2 & I highly doubt extensive rennovations relative to PvP alone will get approved.</span></p>

[Twinbladed]

<p><cite>rubistar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I totally agree. Nagafen is not fun in the Bgs, they not only have better gear but interestingly enough half the time you cant target them. hmm how does that happen. I wont even play gears anymore, it's not fun.</p></blockquote><p>Can I stop for a moment and laugh, you play on a walk around free community without having to worry about anyone sneaking up on you, free to do pve stuff all day long. How do Nagafen players have better gear when most of your play time is pvpless. You can't target someone, there are marco's you can make to bypass that, even threw taunt locks. It almost sounds like your saying we are nothing more than hackers lol. </p><p>Why is Nagafen in Bg's?</p><p>Most of freeport went to qeynos. A lot of the other players only play at low levels. So after a Wf first thing people do is que up for Bg's because atm everyone is pretty much on one side. Yes we get 150 extra tokens for winning a Wf every 2 hours. I can get more than 150 tokens in a BG way before waiting on the Wf's to come up. Yes people do drop tokens on nagafen when they die, one problem, if someone else touches them you lose the amount you were going to get depending on how many people hit them. </p><p>The people that will run you down the most are the one's who have been pvping for years even at it's peak. What I always notice and seems to be a complaint, is the lack of the pve side taken note of what they might be doing wrong instead of making statements like that. </p><p>It's like Daal said earlier, how does the most progressed guild world wide get there face rolled by a Naggy guild? Simple, they don't know anything about pvp at all. People refuse to make time to learn what they do wrong, but always make time for excuses</p>

[rubistar]

<p><span >t's like Daal said earlier, how does the most progressed guild world wide get there face rolled by a Naggy guild? Simple, they don't know anything about pvp at all. People refuse to make time to learn what they do wrong, but always make time for excuses</span></p><p>I do agree with you. What you said makes sense ,I just dont get how Nagafen can enjoy the competition of all grouping together and mowing everyone else down.  At least split it up so there are experienced pvp ers on each team. All I want is a fair competition not a slaughter.  You are correct I am fairly new at pvp and am starting to get the hang of it, if only I could stay alive. lol</p>

[KatrinaDeath]

<p>idea... disable bg's from nagafen for a period of two weeks. then see what the actual reaction is. </p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>rubistar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I totally agree. Nagafen is not fun in the Bgs, they not only have better gear but interestingly enough half the time you cant target them. hmm how does that happen. I wont even play gears anymore, it's not fun.</p></blockquote><p>I disagree, its alot of fun killing naggy people and listening to them whine about it.</p><p>You just need to L2P a bit and you'd see what little advantages they have can easily be overcome with gear that is readily accessable to you.</p>

[Gealaen_Gaiamancer]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>rubistar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I totally agree. Nagafen is not fun in the Bgs, they not only have better gear but interestingly enough half the time you cant target them. hmm how does that happen. I wont even play gears anymore, it's not fun.</p></blockquote><p>I disagree, its alot of fun killing naggy people and listening to them whine about it.</p><p>You just need to L2P a bit and you'd see what little advantages they have can easily be overcome with gear that is readily accessable to you.</p></blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">Agreed--I've had a blast in BGs lately, fighting both with and against folks from Nagafen.  They don't have an overwhelming advantage except for already knowing how to fight other players (instead of AIs).</p><p style="text-align: justify;">Folks from non-PVP servers, even those who don't come rolling in fully dressed in raid gear, can perform respectably in BGs if they work together with their team.</p><p style="text-align: justify;">The "there are no targets in open world PVP" problem is an economic problem.  There're very few reasons to roam around the world on Nagafen, and the opportunity cost of doing so (instead of BGing) is poor.  BGs get you essentially back-to-back engagements (even if they're contrived minigame fights, really) that would take hours or days to find in the world (on volume).  Efficiency, folks, is the winner here.</p>

[Freejazzlive]

<p><cite>Gealaen_Gaiamancer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p style="text-align: justify;">The "there are no targets in open world PVP" problem is an economic problem. There're very few reasons to roam around the world on Nagafen, and the opportunity cost of doing so (instead of BGing) is poor. BGs get you essentially back-to-back engagements (even if they're contrived minigame fights, really) that would take hours or days to find in the world (on volume).  Efficiency, folks, is the winner here.</p></blockquote><p>Sadly, this is why I've pretty much dropped my Nagafen project. I've no interest in BGs at all, but there's nothing else going on, & the server feels dead as dirt.</p><p>To paraphrase The Buggles, "Battlegrounds killed the Nagafen star ......"</p>

[motherofmoon]

<p>Are you insane???? We do not get toughness on our raid gear!!! I dont understand why you people from blue servers even coment on this subject to begin with.... You have no idea what true pvp is!!! Only the unorganized BG you cast yourself into everytime you Q for one! I mean most of you are raiders, would you go to raid without a tank or with one healer?? I think NOT.. Well, in BG your lucky to get one healer! True pvpers think BG's are a joke and need to be gone from nagafen. Nobody wants you blue servers to loose your chance at good gear, even if you do not have the time to raid..So BG is a good solution for you. But please give the true pvper one server  to hone his or her skills in open world organized pvp wheather it be the solo fights of yesteryears on the bucherblock docks or good 6v6 group fights in the streets of our now contested citys! This place is NAGAFEN! AND IS NO PLACE FOR BG!</p>

[apwyork]

<p><cite>Twinbladed@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>rubistar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I totally agree. Nagafen is not fun in the Bgs, they not only have better gear but interestingly enough half the time you cant target them. hmm how does that happen. I wont even play gears anymore, it's not fun.</p></blockquote><p>Can I stop for a moment and laugh, you play on a walk around free community without having to worry about anyone sneaking up on you, free to do pve stuff all day long. How do Nagafen players have better gear when most of your play time is pvpless. You can't target someone, there are marco's you can make to bypass that, even threw taunt locks. It almost sounds like your saying we are nothing more than hackers lol. </p><p>Why is Nagafen in Bg's?</p><p>Most of freeport went to qeynos. A lot of the other players only play at low levels. So after a Wf first thing people do is que up for Bg's because atm everyone is pretty much on one side. Yes we get 150 extra tokens for winning a Wf every 2 hours. I can get more than 150 tokens in a BG way before waiting on the Wf's to come up. Yes people do drop tokens on nagafen when they die, one problem, if someone else touches them you lose the amount you were going to get depending on how many people hit them. </p><p>The people that will run you down the most are the one's who have been pvping for years even at it's peak. What I always notice and seems to be a complaint, is the lack of the pve side taken note of what they might be doing wrong instead of making statements like that. </p><p>It's like Daal said earlier, how does the most progressed guild world wide get there face rolled by a Naggy guild? Simple, they don't know anything about pvp at all. People refuse to make time to learn what they do wrong, but always make time for excuses</p></blockquote><p>Not to take a side, but I think you miss the posters intent.  What I understand them to be saying is that it's not fun for the pve'ers or pvp'ers to be thrown in together. </p><p>If the true intent to pvp is to prove who's a better player, than how does killing a pve character demonstrate that?  Sure, if you think killing a character who has no idea how to pvp is fun, then you're always going to enjoy yourself.  If you want a challenge though, picking off pve players isn't terribly hard.</p><p>For the pve players, the whole issue seems that they are now fighting players who have been doing pvp since creation and know all the ins and outs of it.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>motherofmoon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are you insane???? We do not get toughness on our raid gear!!! I dont understand why you people from blue servers even coment on this subject to begin with.... You have no idea what true pvp is!!! Only the unorganized BG you cast yourself into everytime you Q for one! I mean most of you are raiders, would you go to raid without a tank or with one healer?? I think NOT.. Well, in BG your lucky to get one healer! True pvpers think BG's are a joke and need to be gone from nagafen. Nobody wants you blue servers to loose your chance at good gear, even if you do not have the time to raid..So BG is a good solution for you. But please give the true pvper one server  to hone his or her skills in open world organized pvp wheather it be the solo fights of yesteryears on the bucherblock docks or good 6v6 group fights in the streets of our now contested citys! This place is NAGAFEN! AND IS NO PLACE FOR BG!</p></blockquote><p>Dude, I never queue without a healer, and generally bring what I feel is a balanced pvp group.</p><p>Its a mistake to think everyone that faceroles into the queue are the same.</p>

[Laenai]

<p>How am I supposed to measure my PvEpeen if I can't BG with PVPers? <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[apwyork]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Dude, I never queue without a healer, and generally bring what I feel is a balanced pvp group.</p><p>Its a mistake to think everyone that faceroles into the queue are the same.</p></blockquote><p>I've queued with a healer and even been put on different teams and most of the time into different groups.  The queue system is still far from perfect.</p>

[Cynicisim]

<p>There are a few great naggy pvp'ers and a lot of ok pvp'ers and more than a few bad pvp'ers. The difference IMO is learning to pvp. ON a blue server how often to you truely watch what another player is casting and take measures against it? You do that when raiding a x4 mob. Do you bring pots and pumice stones and totems to the fight? Also, I see some, not all, from blue servers with gear that is not suitable for pvp. Treasured, handcrafted etc without adornments trying to fight players who would never leave the GH in that gear on Naggy. Sometimes fabled gear is not the best and legendary is sometimes better. Adornments can be different in pvp then pve (meaning which you would use). Even how you set up your UI can make a difference and knowing exactly how something works in pvp is big. I have seen people debate one piece of gear for an hour on naggy and test everything out to make sure they are what they want to be. Also, use an AA mirror as what works in pve does not always work in pvp. All players need to prepare for pvp same as raiding and expectation should be the same.. come prepared or don't come at all.</p><p>On naggy when someone speaks about great players they never refer to raiding.. it is always pvp. Can you say the same on a blue server? it is a different mindset and until you change it some will always have difficulty. Roll on naggy and see what you think. Lvl'ing is hard unlike a blue server, gettting the right gear and finishing the right quests is hard but not on a blue server (at least not as difficult). But mostly the expected results are different. On naggy very few have the goal starting out to kill this x4 boss. No, they start out with a pvp mindset and learn it through trial and error and conversation.  </p><p>On a lighter note I was speaking to someone on naggy that Xfered and he said the first week was hard as he lost most of the plat he had because he forgot to bank and went afk in radom spots because he was waiting for a mob to spawn. He lol'ed and started banking.</p><p> just a side note: look at the prices of items on naggy v any blue server and see what is important. 3-4g/potion for a low lvl freedom of mind. Player made arrows v the ones you get from NPCs, totems are far more expensive most of the time. I am not sure about masters but I would assume they are more in demand v experts on naggy and people are more willing to pay the price.</p>

[Hukklebuk]

<p><cite>Swisha@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>idea... disable bg's from nagafen for a period of two weeks. then see what the actual reaction is. </p></blockquote><p>I'd have to say no to that (I get the sarcasm).  I enjoy the BG's and outside of pve raids spend most of my time in them. Over the years watching nagafen folks and learning from them has helped me out with things I would not have thought on my warlock if I only did pve.  Sure I run into the wrong gang once in awhile but I can mostly hold my own anymore.</p><p>Big thing is don't do dumb stuff. Stick together and you'll survive a bit longer.  Whining about heals when you're not by your healer only makes you look bad. </p><p>As far as tokens go, sure nagafen gets more from warfronts, but like they've said, if they're in BG's they aren't in warfronts getting extra tokens.  </p><p>Right now very little of it is about gear while everyone gears up. It's fairly equal footing outside of coordination. If your having a rough time think about what you're doing or not doing.  </p><p>Champions respite should have some kind of chat available ( if it's there I must be missing it ).  Being unable to talk to people is a bit odd, but I suppose it keeps people from going all temper tantrum on others. Sure would be nice to talk to some of the nagafen folks or anyone. Blindly chatting in guild chat is boring.</p><p>Sunnova....  PvE / Everfrost</p>

[Kuroitsuki]

<p>This is so simple to solve it is unreal:</p><p>The concept came from SWG, TEF (Temporary Enemy Faction).  Delete Naggy, deploy the server based battle zones to the realms, keep BG's going.   If you engage in PvP whatsoever, (BG or realms) you get TEF'd.  TEF lasts 12 hours, during this time you can be openly PvP'd (by an opposing faction member).</p><p>TEF's players may not enter an non public space during this time (private house, non public GH)</p><p>Allows PvP and PvE to co-exist on the same server and anyone that played SWG (pre NGE) will probably agree</p>

[Cynicisim]

<p><cite>Lexicon@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is so simple to solve it is unreal:</p><p>The concept came from SWG, TEF (Temporary Enemy Faction).  Delete Naggy, deploy the server based battle zones to the realms, keep BG's going.   If you engage in PvP whatsoever, (BG or realms) you get TEF'd.  TEF lasts 12 hours, during this time you can be openly PvP'd (by an opposing faction member).</p><p>TEF's players may not enter an non public space during this time (private house, non public GH)</p><p>Allows PvP and PvE to co-exist on the same server and anyone that played SWG (pre NGE) will probably agree</p></blockquote><p>Very bad idea unless every zone was a battle zone and everyone was TEF'd when they logged in. Otherwise keep naggy even as broken as it is becuase I for one would no pay more than a month each year to pve and pvp by approval is lame. A large part of the fun of pvp is the danger that you could get killed any minute you are out and about. For some it is too much stress but for others it is adrenaline (sp) even if you die.</p><p>I stopped playing once for quit some time when it was required to continuously pve to get the jewelry to compete in pvp next time i will excuss myself and play a stand alone game where I control the  group just like a merc and only pay once to play it rather than each month. PVE is not for me and everytime I am forced to do it I hate the game a little more. Don't get me wrong, I do pve when required and I enjoy crafting and the challenge of earning plat and listening to others but overall, that can be consolidated into a very short timeframe.</p><p>I do see some good in BGs. Everyone does it without fear becase there is not fame, not shame, no fear of death and no loss of plat. We could learn a lot that would work in open pvp from the BGs.</p>

[Freejazzlive]

<p><cite>Lexicon@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is so simple to solve it is unreal:</p><p>The concept came from SWG, TEF (Temporary Enemy Faction).  Delete Naggy, deploy the server based battle zones to the realms, keep BG's going.   If you engage in PvP whatsoever, (BG or realms) you get TEF'd.  TEF lasts 12 hours, during this time you can be openly PvP'd (by an opposing faction member).</p><p>TEF's players may not enter an non public space during this time (private house, non public GH)</p><p>Allows PvP and PvE to co-exist on the same server and anyone that played SWG (pre NGE) will probably agree</p></blockquote><p>Sorry, I have <strong>ZERO</strong> interest in seeing every server turned into an open PvP realm.</p>