Qeynos and necros

[myquatrain1]

<p>Gee, nice that Qeynos has such a big upgrade.</p><p>Are Necros gonna be able to play in there now?</p>

[Juravael]

<p>Freeport got it's revamp this past November. Qeynosians have had to wait for theirs for 8+ months.</p>

[myquatrain1]

<p>ahh I was not playing then</p><p>TY</p>

[Oxie]

<p>Necromancers, conjurors, shadowknights, paladins, defilers, mystics, brigands, and swashbucklers are still good/evil aligned. As soon as someone asks to be allowed to keep their class, but switch alignment, the lore fanatics rise up and argue against it. </p><p>Evil paladins and good shadowknights make no sense, but evil rangers and good assassins can be justified with a bit of lore twisting.</p>

[Lizabethan]

<p>Since the new lore deals with the problems of necromancy in Qeynos and trying to stop it, I don't think it'll happen soon. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Dexella]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=520124&post_id=5777724" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=52012...post_id=5777724</a> *Post removed for forum violations. Please communicate constructively.*

[Oxie]

<p><cite>General_Info wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ruckus@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Evil paladins and good shadowknights make no sense, but evil rangers and good assassins can be justified with a bit of lore twisting.</p></blockquote><p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">*Please do not quote forum violations*</span></strong></p></blockquote><p>So explain to me why swashbucklers cannot be evil aligned and brigands cannot be good aligned, yet an assassin can now be good and a ranger can now be evil? Keep anything related to "real life events" out of this discussion which is based on a fantasy world MMO game.</p>

[Dexella]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=520124&post_id=5778055" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=52012...post_id=5778055</a> *Post removed for forum violations. Please communicate constructively.*

[Oxie]

<p><cite>General_Info wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ruckus@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>General_Info wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">*Please do not quote forum violations*</span></strong></blockquote><p>So explain to me why swashbucklers cannot be evil aligned and brigands cannot be good aligned, yet an assassin can now be good and a ranger can now be evil? Keep anything related to "real life events" out of this discussion which is based on a fantasy world MMO game.</p></blockquote><p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">*Please do not quote forum violations*</span></strong></p></blockquote><p>They need to just drop all alignment for the remaining 8 classes and someone at SOE spin the lore like they did for assassins/rangers, bruisers/monks, inquistors/templars, and coercers/illusionists. They dropped the class alignment restriction in PvP, so they can just take the next step and drop it for PvE already. I have several reasons why I want to be an evil aligned swashbuckler and not have to turn into a brigand (I'm not a fan of the brigand playstyle, and I really enjoy playing they swashbuckler class.) Outside of raiding 3 times a week, I stand around in the guild hall AFK. I'd at least find some fun in the game again if I could do the "new" Freeport city quests as well as all the other "evil aligned" quests in the other evil cities.</p>

[General_Info]

<p><cite>Ruckus@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>They need to just drop all alignment for the remaining 8 classes and someone at SOE spin the lore like they did for assassins/rangers, bruisers/monks, inquistors/templars, and coercers/illusionists. They dropped the class alignment restriction in PvP, so they can just take the next step and drop it for PvE already.</blockquote><p>necromancy in qeynos at least is the death penalty. probably similar in halas&kelethin.</p><p>defilers would probably get similar treatment.</p><p>shadowknights in qeynos? hell no. These guys are completely evil through and through.</p>

[Leawyn]

<p>There's no reason why someone who learned the ways of the shadowknight wouldn't use it for a good cause, much like the assassins only killing evil people so that suddenly makes it a-ok! We already have an evil Pally (Hi, Lucan!) so lore can most definitely be used for that. This argument has been argued in circles since they made 8 more classes neutral, leaving only 8 faction locked. It works on PVP to have all classes neutral, there's no reason why it can't work on PVE too.</p>

[Finora]

<p><cite>Maewyn@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There's no reason why someone who learned the ways of the shadowknight wouldn't use it for a good cause, much like the assassins only killing evil people so that suddenly makes it a-ok! We already have an evil Pally (Hi, Lucan!) so lore can most definitely be used for that. This argument has been argued in circles since they made 8 more classes neutral, leaving only 8 faction locked. It works on PVP to have all classes neutral, there's no reason why it can't work on PVE too.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not hugely versed in Norrath lore but seems to me that the very nature of shadowknight in the EQ universe prevents them from ever being 'good'. I wouldn't personally care if they did make them neutral, I'd move my iksar to Qeynos straight away if they did since Scale Yard is gone, but lore wise I think it would be far more difficult to justify than the classes that have been made neutral more recently.</p><p>I think Lucan sort of forfited his divine good powers of a pally when he became whatever lichy thing he is currently, I could be wrong about that though as stated before I'm not ultra well versed in lore.</p><p>Assassin & ranger makes sense to me, there are always snipers & tracking scouts on both sides of any conflict.</p><p>Earlier question about brigands & swashies, I think it's more that brigands are inherently a bad thing, therefore can only be evil alligned & swashbucklers being the other side of that coin are made to be only good.</p><p>PVP changes were made for mechanical reasons, mostly for raiding as I recall, since raiding was PVE balanced & in a PVP environment the players didn't have access to some classes that ended up being needed for some content or some such. It had no basis whatsoever in lore, which it would need to have on the PVE servers.</p>

[General_Info]

<p><cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I think Lucan sort of forfited his divine good powers of a pally when he became whatever lichy thing he is currently, I could be wrong about that though as stated before I'm not ultra well versed in lore.</blockquote><p>Lucan was supposedly stripped of his divine powers, ether him using divine healing in a fight with players is an oversight or he found out how to use them again.</p><p>Lucan be can percieved in a number of ways, you could call him a former paladin that was cast out. you could call him a shadowknight given the fact that he wears a breastplate with a disfigured lion on it shows what he thinks of his former god Mithaniel Marr.</p>

[Senya]

<p>I'd love to be a necro of Qeynos.  I've /feedbacked several times to change the class restrictions to the way it works on pvp servers.</p>

[Leawyn]

<p>If Qeynos can accept a murderer-for-hire, who does so for the "greater good", then why not a Shadow Knight who uses his evil abilities for the greater good? Why do they have to be "good" to be accepted in "good" cities. They can be grudgingly accepted, shuffled off to some dark corner of the city or hidden from the general populace to do the Queen's bidding. Yes, they do things of an evil nature, but isn't that what assassins do too? But they're accepted.</p>

[General_Info]

<p><cite>Maewyn@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If Qeynos can accept a murderer-for-hire, who does so for the "greater good", then why not a Shadow Knight who uses his evil abilities for the greater good? Why do they have to be "good" to be accepted in "good" cities. They can be grudgingly accepted, shuffled off to some dark corner of the city or hidden from the general populace to do the Queen's bidding. Yes, they do things of an evil nature, but isn't that what assassins do too? But they're accepted.</p></blockquote><p>assassins do what every other class does, they kill people the only difference is how.</p><p>as for shadowknights look at the ingame descriptions:</p><p>"shadowkinghts are 1)<em>malevolent</em> cursaders who wreak<em> </em>2)<em>fear, hate and dispair</em> apon all who would oppose them.""in addition to their formidable martial skills, shadowknight conjure 3)<em>dark magic</em> with which they can enhance their abilities and 4)<em>drain away the life for of their enemies</em>"</p><p>1)They believe that might makes right, that whatever they do is justified because they are stronger then their victim.</p><p>2) fear and hate are all things that would strengthen Cazic-Thule and Innoruuk why would a good city have someone that would increase the power of these gods.</p><p>3) necromancy is dark magic you really think they'd sentince a necromancer to death and let a SK live?</p><p>4) Hmm sounds alot like vampires eh? qeynos guards wouldn't bat an eye killing a vampire (as opposed to a freeblood) so why would they tolorate someone who mimmicks vampires?</p>

[Juravael]

<p>Personally I wish they would have left the class alignments alone and kept the game split into two distinct sides, good and evil, with a few neutral classes. But hey, that's just me.</p><p>A Shadowknight in Qeynos? A Paladin walking freely in Neriak or Freeport? No thanks.</p><p>Not everyone can be pleased. I don't know how much more vanilla this game can get anymore without allowing every character access to everything which is what it seems that some folks want. I do not see the point.</p>

[Brigh]

Markee Dragon made a comment on one of his YouTube videos recently about how if a game starts to compete with other games and appeal to the masses, they start to lose their individuality. ...cough...

[Oxie]

<p>Hey, if you paladins, conjurors, swashbucklers, and mystics want to stay in the good aligned cities...stay there and role play your way.If you shadowknights, necromancers, brigands, and defilers want to stay in Freeport or any of the evil aligned cities...stay there and role play your way.</p><p>If you're in a role playing guild, then follow YOUR guild rules that you agreed to when you joined the guild. If you as a role player do not want to interact with an evil paladin or good necromancer, then it's YOUR option to act like they are not there on your screen and/or /ignore them.</p><p>YOUR way is not MY way. I was fine with being good aligned on my swashbuckler at launch, but as soon as they dropped the good/evil alignments for monks/bruisers, rangers/assassins, templars/inquisitors, and illusionists/coercers, then I took issue with being forced to stay in a good aligned city. The people that play those 8 classes can do what they want and not lose their class if they want to go to another alignment like those of us who play the other 8 classes. Not to mention that beastlords wear automatically neutral when the class was added to the game.</p><p>Once the novelty of the newly redesigned Qeynos wears off...like it did in Freeport...people will still spend most of their non-adventuring time in the guild halls with standing AFK, chatting in channels, crafting, or staring at the broker.</p><p>I want to do quests in Freeport in Neriak on my swashbuckler. I want to be able to follow an evil god on my swashbuckler. I do not roleplay (I created my characters on a non-RP server for that reason), but I do quest (over 4000 done on my "main") and I raid 3-4 nights a week. Why can a ranger now be evil in Freeport and follow an evil god that can slightly increase his DPS, but my swashbuckler cannot? I do not want to play a brigand (I have tried to play one on an alt) and it's just not my playstyle...so do not tell me to just go play a brigand and shut up about this topic. ((Because I know a few of you people will come into this discussion and try to force your OOC RPing views on me.)) If SOE was able to "spin" the 8 classes to be neutral in their lore, then they can spin the remaining 8 classes to be neutral, too. If you don't like it...too bad...your opposing views are taking away from some of the enjoyment that I could be having on the only adventuring character that I have played since launch. SOE was able to make all 25 classes neutral on the PvP server, so they can do the same on a PvE server...and before you say anything about just moving to the PvP server to remain a swashbuckler in an evil city...pass...I'm on Unrest forever.</p>

[Freejazzlive]

<p>I would gag if we were allowed to play "evil" Paladins & "good" Shadowknights.</p>

[TheSpin]

<p>There are very legitimate reasons for the mage, priest, and fighter classes that are restricted to stay that way.</p><p>Obviously the brigand and swash restrictions are ultimately just to maintain balance, but the overal idea behind the classes is that brigands are simple thugs versus the more showy and flamboyant swashbuckler, so the restrictions do make a little bit of sense.</p><p>Now as for somebody commenting about Lucan, I can't remember the exact term used, but today as I was going through the Qeynos questline there were some comments about Lucan and what he is exactly.  He definitely doesn't fit any of the current classes.  He would be most like a combination of an inquisitor and a shadowknight, but definitely not a paladin.  At the time I was reading the quest text talking about him I wanted to comment here and mention the term used to describe him but didn't find the thread.  It was something the barbarian said in the potion shop in SQ.</p>

[theriatis]

<p>Hi.</p><p>I vote STRONGLY against Necromancers and Necromancy in OUR City !</p><p>The Last Necromancer i had to KICK out of Starcrest and the Damage he alone has done will take MONTHS to clear.I am ashamed that one of MY Race, which had enough experience with it to JUST DON'T DO such things, was doingmonstrous atrocities in my Home-Suburb.</p><p>This was not gentle studying as it is done in Paineel (and i even don't agree with their methods or the usage of thisPower there), this was just an Abomination !</p><p>Even the Freeportians have tried to bring their EVIL ways to our Headmaster in the Mage Tower, i was there to seeand to kick her sorry behind out of it.</p><p>I may be the one fighting with them side by side in Skyshrine but i will NEVER Tolerate it in my City, Qeynos.</p><p>May Qeynos stay as the shining beacon in this darkening Times, as it once was.</p><p>Respectfully,Theriatis.</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>the last 8 classes are definately evil/good by all means...the only one of them that an even be greyed is swashy/brig.</p><p>and mostly becuase a Brig is a brutal, gangbanger type crimminal, and a swashy is a conartist working for the 'law'. I see the swashy as the sailor with a woman in every port type. he lies, cheats, ocasionally steals, but he's generally on the up an up.  the brig is the Krypt/Blood gang member.</p><p>a shadowknight by it's very natures does NOTHING 'good'. there is no 'using his powers for the greater good' becuase thier powers are all derived from evil. you have to remember that all those lifetaps and spells and such are not something he learned in a book, but given to him by a God. the gods of Fear/Hate/Disease/ in particular. to keep his powers, he has to appease those gods. those gods do not promote playing nice or helping anyone but yourself. you don't kill the gnolls to protect the farmer. you kill the gnolls, then the farmer and take whatever's left.</p><p>Same for a Paladin. his powers are not learned, but granted to him by a god...usually gods of Valor/Growth/Love. to keep thier powers, they have to appease those gods. the actions they would have to commit in the 'evil' cities like freeport/neriak/gorowyn would get them stripped of those powers. just like Lucan was. a paladin can't kill someone outright simply because they are on the wrong side of the street or thier wearing a gold bracelt on thier wrist. a paladin can't kill people just cause they are poor or starving. in fact it's his duty to help those people. those kind of actions don't fly in the evil cities.</p><p>Necro...in all the good cities necromancy is outlawed and punishable by death. that's all you need to know as to why it's not there. there's no one to teach it. the bloodsabers were pretty much wiped out after Kane Bayle's trial. they've got no formal guild/struture left. anyone with any real power was killed or arrested or driven off.</p><p>Conjys...the evil cities see it as a 'weaker' art then Necromancy and weakness is not tolerated. plus, necromancy gains favor with the evil gods like Bert and Inny..which furthers their own power...and in Neriak especially, anything that gains favor with Inny is a must have.</p><p>Mystics and defilers are a little gray...but with them it's the means. the acts a Defiler uses would get the Temple of Life on thier cases in a heartbeat. even more so proven with the new Qeynos lines that prove the Temple can/does sense spiritual forces AND can tell how they are being used. a Defilier in the Temple's structure/guild would be like albino in harlem. and the first time a Mystic's ability didn't work beuase the spirits didn't agree or cooperate the Mystic would find itself being thrown into Executioner's Plaza.</p><p>the other 'neutral' everyone talks about being the assassin/ranger...they are simply Qeynos/Freeport 'special forces' the Eyes of Bayle are Qeynos' Navy SEAL. the Redhoods are Freeports Green Berets.</p><p>but then again, I was never for the stupid idea of taking major classes of EQ1 and cutting them in half, either. a cleric is a cleric. a chanter is a chanter. a rogue is a rogue.</p><p>though I think some of the 'good evils' are becuase only 1 half would make sense. like you can picture a conjy in neriak openly studying. you can't do the same for a Necro in Halas. you might see a swashy in Freeport...but there's no way a Brig would be in Qeynos and not be dead or long since arrested. a Mystic might be able to hide in Freeport...but a defiler would be painfully obvious in Qeynos.</p>

[LordPazuzu]

<p>I could see the justification(however small in some cases) for lifting the alignment resitrictions on everything except Paladins and Shadow Knights.  By their very nature Paladins are paragons of good, virtue, and light and Shadow Knights are pretty mucht he vilest of the vile.  These are classes of extremes with no room for grey area.</p>

[Oxie]

<p><cite>Meaghan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I could see the justification(however small in some cases) for lifting the alignment resitrictions on everything except Paladins and Shadow Knights.  By their very nature Paladins are paragons of good, virtue, and light and Shadow Knights are pretty mucht he vilest of the vile.  These are classes of extremes with no room for grey area.</p></blockquote><p>This I could get behind, and I do see the point and thinking behind it. I was lumping the sk/paladins in with the other 6 classes that are not neutral because it happened on the PvP server and wanted equality and balance for all classes on the PvE servers.</p>

[Leawyn]

<p>Ok, since people are so stuck up and won't let necros and SK's into their city, how about they add in a way for people to live in secret in a city of opposite alignment? Like let my mystic live in FP, but remain "good" aligned. Some quest that would allow them to trick the guards and merchants of the city to allow them to walk around without being harassed (much).</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>your talking about the eq1 'hidden' guilds/market.</p><p>Q and FP don't have places to hide anymore in a way to have housing. the bloodsabers used to have the sewers to themselves, but not anymore. goodies used to have Nfp...but Lucan razed it. (it's now pretty much the Graveyard...with guards constantly patroling it.)</p><p>however I could see them using the area's with the 'Fences' as merchant points were those guys will sell the freeport/qeynos specific items/ceremonial armor sets and such. So you might not be able to live there, but at least could get the unique stuff from there.</p>

[Ryptide]

<p>They killed off the role play / lore when both "governments" started trading with each other via the shared banking system.</p><p>It can be logically reasoned why all 25 classes could be aligned with both cities.  However, SoE seems to have something against the last 8 remaining classes.</p><p>Here's an idea for the 8 remaining classes.  </p><p>Any good aligned player that wants to become evil aligned, and vice versa, may do so at a cost.  They must except "kill on sight" status while in <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Qeynos and Freeport</span>, but will be allowed to reside in any of the nuetral cities.  While in the nuetral cities, and their guild hall, they will be allowed to bank normally, and worship as they please. </p>

[Freejazzlive]

<p><cite>Maewyn@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok, since people are so stuck up and won't let necros and SK's into their city, how about they add in a way for people to live in secret in a city of opposite alignment? Like let my mystic live in FP, but remain "good" aligned. Some quest that would allow them to trick the guards and merchants of the city to allow them to walk around without being harassed (much).</p></blockquote><p>I actually kinda like this idea <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p>