Physical Mitigation

[eohprod]

<p>OK- one piece of feedback I have is regarding physical mitigation.</p><p>For us squishy classes, every last bit helps, and with the consolidation/changes to the Character Development tab, we lost 1656 Physical Mitigation.</p><p>Every 15 levels, you could choose your resist traits- I'm sure most of us squishy types chose the physical, as it is trivial to get the other resists on gear.</p><p>However, now that is gone and not replaced in the new system.</p><p>I copied my main (92 warden, 320AA) to test today- here's the results:</p><p>Prior to merging focus effects:</p><p>Physical mitigation (buffed): 6940 granting 61.5%</p><p>After the focus merge (same toon, same buffs, same gear, same AA):</p><p>Physical mitigation (buffed): 5893 granting 57.7% damage absorption.</p><p>I realize people will probably get all bent out of shape about me reporting such a small loss with negative feedback, but having worked to increase my mitigation, I've seen that even a 2% increase can make the difference between surviving and getting squished like a bug.</p><p>Is there any way to address this?</p>

[resiler]

<p><cite>eohprod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I realize people will probably get all bent out of shape about me reporting such a small loss with negative feedback, but having worked to increase my mitigation, I've seen that even a 2% increase can make the difference between surviving and getting squished like a bug.</p><p>Is there any way to address this?</p></blockquote><p>Only one regular poster in the forums thinks the physical mit nerf is sensible, and NO ONE else here thinks he's in his right mind.  You, and several other threads full of people, are absolutely justified in being bent out of shape for such a sweeping change.  The loss of so much mitigation will be <em>keenly</em> felt by all classes.  Addressing it is up to red names at this point.  Xelgad/Piestro's original post was instantly set upon with negative feedback regarding this exact issue, and more will be piling up.</p>

[Griffinhart]

<p>The lack of physical mit is a pretty big hit.  As a caster, dropping for 4500+ mit to 2800 is a bit of a loss.</p>

[kdmorse]

<p>Yah, we had a few casters that until recently didn't go down the physical mit line.  Once they did, the difference in survivability to a glancing blow was dramatic.  To think we're all about to be knocked down to the level they were at before they re-speced... Yikies...</p><p>I understand the Focus rearrangement.   Don't really have a strong feeling one way or another on it.</p><p>But rolling in a massive stealth nerf to all squishie classes... Yikies... just Yikies...</p><p>Please give us our physical mit back...</p>

[Cyrdemac]

<p>It's not only squishy classes.</p><p>As a tank, I really do feel the missing mitigation. dropping from 70% vs level 92 to 64 % makes a big difference in raiding tbh.</p>

[Soul_Dreamer]

<p>Personally I just hope it's an oversight, they've added Resists/Stats to the focus effects to make up for the resist/hp choices so with any luck they'll just add some mit to each focus effect as well.</p>

[Novusod]

<p>The mitigation nerf is huge for Brawlers. This makes my tank a whole lot more squishy to even basic auto attacks.</p>

[Adegx]

<p>Can we get a red name to please comment on this one way or the other.</p><p>Most everyone i know took physical mitigation over the elemental ones. Is this an oversight or intentional?</p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>Soul_Dreamer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Personally I just hope it's an oversight, they've added Resists/Stats to the focus effects to make up for the resist/hp choices so with any luck they'll just add some mit to each focus effect as well.</p></blockquote><p>If it were simply an oversight it would have already been addressed by now.</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=519572">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=519572</a> It was just glossed over here as well.</p><p>It is pretty clear that it is not open for discussion.</p><p>After our raid tonight I am going to respec that line and take extra elemental since that is my highest resist line and I will gainthe least from it. That way I will have lost all of the physical mit like they have planned then I will make the HM instance runs like usual this weekend and see how well that works out.</p>

[Lyndro-EQ2]

<p>Howdy all,</p><p>Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.</p>

[Silzin]

<p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Howdy all,</p><p>Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.</p></blockquote><p>Is this going to be addressed BEFORE any of these changes go live?</p>

[Piropiro]

<p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Howdy all,</p><p>Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.</p></blockquote><p>Can you please remove potency from the focus effects too? Casters gain more from it than other classes so it doesn't scale properly. I'd appreciate it. Oh, Also can you remove power, wizards gain more than anybody else do due to manaburn, and the health, take that off as necros gain more due to lifeburn. Shall we go on?</p><p>Also, mit scales the same for every class, its just that some are already higher than others on curve naturaly so the gain of getting more helps out more for others. Baka</p>

[theriatis]

<p>Yes Lyndro,</p><p>Clothies got a good Portion of their Survival from the Phys Mit. I specced completely (also the Battlemage Line and everything i got) to get more Phys Mit and Wards so that i am able to stand at least one Trauma AE.</p><p>I have to stand in the near of the Mobs, because some of my spells have only a Range of 5 or 10 meters (because the skilled Spellreach does not affect those).</p><p>Since DoV and now more with the Prestige Lines i am struggling to do DPS, only being able to do if i am absolutley reckless (sorry, couldn't resist <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) but now i have to stand far away. As DPS is the only thing my class can provide, it is also more that i fall more and more behind. Why take a Squishy Class which can only Provide DPS and now can't do that anymore (better) than all the others, when you can have other classes which can tank/heal/Melee/support and deal equal dps ?</p><p>So, what now ? Are there any Plans for that ? A nerfage of the Trauma-AEs ? Some other ways for us to get more Phys Mit ? (I don't hope any more to get more Single-Target DPS for my class which i can use from far away).</p><p>Regards, theriatis.</p>

[BadLuck]

<p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Can you please remove potency from the focus effects too? Casters gain more from it than other classes so it doesn't scale properly. I'd appreciate it. Oh, Also can you remove power, wizards gain more than anybody else do due to manaburn, and the health, take that off as necros gain more due to lifeburn. Shall we go on?</p><p>Also, mit scales the same for every class, its just that some are already higher than others on curve naturaly so the gain of getting more helps out more for others. Baka</p></blockquote><p>I second this post as thats exactly the way I feel.</p>

[slippery]

<p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Howdy all,</p><p>Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.</p></blockquote><p>That's fine and all if you are going to adjust every trauma AE (and there are lots of them) on current content so that mages that just lost half their mitigation don't get one shot over and over again. Not to mention the Plate tanks you are clearly trying to help in this patch now taking even more damage from every auto attack, every auto attack that they are going to be hit even more often by since the Brawler avoiding for them is no longer immune to Strikethrough.</p>

[Chronus1]

<p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Howdy all,</p><p>Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.</p></blockquote><p>Can you please remove potency from the focus effects too? Casters gain more from it than other classes so it doesn't scale properly. I'd appreciate it. Oh, Also can you remove power, wizards gain more than anybody else do due to manaburn, and the health, take that off as necros gain more due to lifeburn. Shall we go on?</p><p>Also, mit scales the same for every class, its just that some are already higher than others on curve naturaly so the gain of getting more helps out more for others. Baka</p></blockquote><p>This basically. It's totally unfair to have things that are better for some classes than others just because this is no longer a choice. Because before it always was a "choice" right? /sarcasm off.</p>

[Neonblue]

<p>Really Lyndro, is that a joke? If so its not very funny.  I thought april fools has passed.   </p><p>I guess we will have to wait until the so called "class by class" change happen.  It will prolly be rolled in right before the test goes live, if at all.  </p><p>As a person who regularly plays all classes, I can guranetee that this change will have drastic affects if not addressed.  I don't get what the problem is if a mage has a little more physical mit?  Please don't tell me this is a PVP fix, cause it sure does smell like one.  And nothing makes me want to rage quit this game more than PVP fixes affecting PVE play.</p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote> (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example)</blockquote><p>Thanks for letting us know that this is the intended direction.</p><p>This is apples and oranges though. The amount of damage reduction decreases as more mit is added. A human cloth wearer vs a human Plate tank that both have only 1500 physical mit (no armor, no innate class bonuses etc) are going to get the same protection from that 1500. Now give the plate tank 3000 if the damage reduction is not EXACTLY 50% less than what the 1500 is I don't understand what is the intent of this change.</p><p>This is a broadsweeping change and "We'll address these issues" is scary, these issues already need to be addressed, this wasn't broken before it has been like that since November of 2005 iirc.</p><p>We get no more benefit from the first X amount of Physical mit than anyone else. In comparison the same scale of damage reduction applies to us for all other resists, but those are being left unchanged.</p><p>Does the same principal not apply to say arcane, add 1500 to a cloth wearer and add 1500 to a plate wearer do they both provide the exact same benefit?</p>

[Finora]

<p><cite>Silzin@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Howdy all,</p><p>Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.</p></blockquote><p>Is this going to be addressed BEFORE any of these changes go live?</p></blockquote><p>I'm glad someone popped in and let us know that it was intentional, but really  I have to second this question:</p><p>Is this going to be addressed before the changes go live? Because it really needs to be. </p><p>Are armors getting a mitigation raise across the board? Mitigation changed to scale more linear rather than a curve? Whatever it is needs to happen before these go live or it needs to be added back as a choice for people. I don't think I even know anyone who DIDN'T take the physical mitigation when given the choice. This is a change that will significantly effect almost every single player you have still playing & not in a good or fun way.</p>

[slippery]

Also keep in mind, that you guys as a dev team have paid 0 attention to mit values on gear. They don't increase in a lot of cases as you get gear that is supposed to be better. In fact in a lot of cases they actually go down. It's something that hasn't been looked at in ages, like protection value on shields being virtually unchanged since TSO (except for SS shields, which have more then everything, including PoW).

[Alenna]

<p><cite>eohprod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>OK- one piece of feedback I have is regarding physical mitigation.</p><p>For us squishy classes, every last bit helps, and with the consolidation/changes to the Character Development tab, we lost 1656 Physical Mitigation.</p><p>Every 15 levels, you could choose your resist traits- I'm sure most of us squishy types chose the physical, as it is trivial to get the other resists on gear.</p><p>However, now that is gone and not replaced in the new system.</p><p>I copied my main (92 warden, 320AA) to test today- here's the results:</p><p>Prior to merging focus effects:</p><p>Physical mitigation (buffed): 6940 granting 61.5%</p><p>After the focus merge (same toon, same buffs, same gear, same AA):</p><p>Physical mitigation (buffed): 5893 granting 57.7% damage absorption.</p><p>I realize people will probably get all bent out of shape about me reporting such a small loss with negative feedback, but having worked to increase my mitigation, I've seen that even a 2% increase can make the difference between surviving and getting squished like a bug.</p><p>Is there any way to address this?</p></blockquote><p>i agree with you they need to have some way of giving us the same physical mit we had before.</p>

[Meare]

<p>Ok, one thing with scouts is that the new armor in SS has less mit than the armor from easy mode drunder, so was this planned...</p><p>I understand the increase was unbalanced, yet to say there is no temp solution then that is a concern. Easiest solution in my opinion is relook at base mit values or have the focus be % mit increase instead.</p>

[kalaria]

<p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Howdy all,</p><p>Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.</p></blockquote><p>I honestly dont believe you (SoE) comprehend how extensively this mitigation removal will affect classes and survivability in game.  There are a TON of Trauma AEs, not to mention AE autoattack which are going to be doing SIGNIFICANTLY more damage to every class in the the entire game now....  massively magnified as you go towards cloth armor.</p><p>And frankly, your (SoE's) track record for significant corrections due to mechanics changes is EXTREMELY poor.  And I'd rather not see yet more broken raid encounters which take months and Months and MONTHS to fix.  Because no, you will NOT correct everything prior to these changes going it, as always, it is only going to be reactionary corrections and fixes, not proactive.</p><p>In the end, it will be MUCH less effort just to keep the +physical mitigation bonuses in game.</p>

[Anastasie]

<p>Please say they are going to balance this prior to the gu so I don't have a full group of mages going splat every time a trauma ae hits them <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Dethdlr]

<p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Howdy all,</p><p><strong><span style="color: #ff6600;">Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects.</span></strong> Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). <strong><span style="color: #ff6600;">We'll address issues</span></strong> in ways that are easier to maintain and balance <strong><span style="color: #ff6600;">on a class by class basis</span></strong> instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.</p></blockquote><p>With this one little change, you just increased the difficulty of every encounter in the game.  Was that really your intent?</p><p>I've got to agree with the person that said this smells like a PvP change that is going to greatly impact the PvE game. </p><p>It's been like it is for years and years.  Encounter after encounter has been adjusted based on how it works now.    And you're yanking it out and saying you'll address the issues on a class by class basis?</p><p>How about this.  <strong><span style="color: #ff6600;">Put it back and when you have EVERYTHING in place for that "class by class basis", put them both on test and we'll try it out and let you know how it works.</span></strong></p><p>Sorry, but this sounds like it was designed and decided upon by people who don't actually play the game at level cap and once the magnitude of the impact was pointed out, the "class by class basis" excuse was thrown together.  Otherwise, if you knew the impact of this decision, why wouldn't you have had that "class by class basis" already in place when you pulled this in the first place? </p><p><strong><span style="color: #ff6600;">Removing physical mit without making any changes to make up the difference makes every class more squishey!</span></strong></p>

[Piropiro]

<p>This reminds me of one of my favorite posts by Xelgad where he didn't want to make a change to one of the warlock prestige abilities as they planned to fix the ability that was asked to be put in its place in the "distant future". I think two weeks is enough future if this goes in.</p>

[Tylia]

<p><cite>Anastasie wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please say they are going to balance this prior to the gu so I don't have a full group of mages going splat every time a trauma ae hits them <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Oy, if this goes live before it's all sorted, I think I'll just stop raiding for a while.  It is not going to be pretty and to be honest, I'm not that fond of dying.. repeatedly.. for over 3 hours.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Lyndro!  Please reconsider this huge mistake of a change!!!</p>

[Outkast1980]

<p><cite>Tylia@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Anastasie wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please say they are going to balance this prior to the gu so I don't have a full group of mages going splat every time a trauma ae hits them <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Oy, if this goes live before it's all sorted, I think I'll just stop raiding for a while.  It is not going to be pretty and to be honest, I'm not that fond of dying.. repeatedly.. for over 3 hours.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Lyndro!  Please reconsider this huge mistake of a change!!!</p></blockquote><p> +1,000,000   the Entire Community agrees with this sentiment.</p>

[Lyndro-EQ2]

<p><cite>Neonblue wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Really Lyndro, is that a joke? If so its not very funny.  I thought april fools has passed.   </p><p>I guess we will have to wait until the so called "class by class" change happen.  It will prolly be rolled in right before the test goes live, if at all.  </p><p>As a person who regularly plays all classes, I can guranetee that this change will have drastic affects if not addressed.  I don't get what the problem is if a mage has a little more physical mit?  Please don't tell me this is a PVP fix, cause it sure does smell like one.  And nothing makes me want to rage quit this game more than PVP fixes affecting PVE play.</p></blockquote><p>This change has nothing to do with PvP. We are able to tune and balance PvP mitigation curves percentages independently.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>They could change their minds on this, then just adjust the mitigation curve and get the same results while apeasing the masses.</p><p>Just sayin.</p>

[Rhita]

<p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Neonblue wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Really Lyndro, is that a joke? If so its not very funny.  I thought april fools has passed.   </p><p>I guess we will have to wait until the so called "class by class" change happen.  It will prolly be rolled in right before the test goes live, if at all.  </p><p>As a person who regularly plays all classes, I can guranetee that this change will have drastic affects if not addressed.  I don't get what the problem is if a mage has a little more physical mit?  Please don't tell me this is a PVP fix, cause it sure does smell like one.  And nothing makes me want to rage quit this game more than PVP fixes affecting PVE play.</p></blockquote><p>This change has nothing to do with PvP. We are able to tune and balance PvP mitigation curves percentages independently.</p></blockquote><p>Are you able to tune trauma AE's, melee damage with the multi attacks on tanks, and that really lame melee proc that every mob in game seems to have that triggers off every melee hit now that already inflicts 40k+ and constantly 1 shots tanks and will do so even more with less mit?</p>

[Tylia]

<p>1656 is a huge chunk of physical mit to suddenly lose!  It's not something that is easily replaced.  Please, reconsider!!</p>

[Dethdlr]

<p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This change has nothing to do with PvP. We are able to tune and balance PvP mitigation curves percentages independently.</p></blockquote><p>Then why the change?  And why only implement the removal part and not the class by class adjustment to compensate?</p><p>You're unbalancing every encounter in the game and doing nothing to compensate for it.  Is this really the plan or are those class by class adjustments going to be implemented before the GU?</p><p>Sorry, but plenty of us have seen first hand the difference between being spec'd this way and not being spec'd this way and how it impacts survivability.  Are we not dying enough or something?  lol</p>

[Uwopo]

<p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Howdy all,</p><p>Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.</p></blockquote><p>This needs to be addressed before GU64 goes live.  Any raider with half a clue went down the mitigation resist line, regardless of class.</p><p>Losing ~1600 mitigation on my fighter is annoying enough, but it's going to break things for other classes.</p><p>If the purpose of this character development consolidation was to simplify the page, why is a significant nerf being rolled into it before an appropriate balance solution has even been proposed?</p>

[kalaria]

<p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This change has nothing to do with PvP. We are able to tune and balance PvP mitigation curves percentages independently.</p></blockquote><p>Out of all the SERIOUS concerns in this thread about this ill-thought-out change, the only point you address is a conspiracy theory? Seriously?</p><p>The scope of this mitigation removal is vast and is affected by so many entirely separate encounter mechanics that honestly, you have no hope in ever correcting them... yet, you are going to do this anyways.</p>

[Trennt]

<p>Time has come to cancel my EQII accounts and start playing SW:TOR again? Thats just great, all the time I've spent recently gearing up my guardian to tank SS zones for my guild specced fully defensive/hate gain and the healers I have are having enough trouble to keep me alive already. On live I have what I consider to be a pretty decent amount of mitigation, with my standard group I am buffing to 75% (I believe I have 72-73% unbuffed) logged onto testcopy, bought all of my focus effects, and im down to 68% mitigation, to me this is totally unacceptable. I havent even had the heart to see how large this nerf is to my non fighter alts but if "clothies get more" then every one of my alts got beat down with this gigantic nerf bat and I don't see them getting back up. /mourn</p>

[jjlo69]

<p> You know what funny is these changes changes are gonna go in mid july.. which mean they wont get fixed until early sept - oct just in time for fanfare or what every it is called now.. Glad arenenet annouced gw2 will beout on aug 28 today give me something to do until this gets fixed</p>

[Megavolt]

<p><cite>Uncle@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Glad arenenet annouced gw2 will beout on aug 28 today give me something to do until this gets fixed</p></blockquote><p>+1</p><p>Maybe SOE made some back office deal with arenanet to chase everyone off in less than chain over to GW2.</p>

[Neiloch]

<p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Howdy all,</p><p>Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.</p></blockquote><p>You guys really need to learn how to adjust things evenly. You got this stance going in but only fighters get a new stance, no one else gets any other equivalent change. Then you get rid of mitigation traits with vague 'plans' to make up for it later.</p><p><strong>Pro tip</strong>: You don't get rid of something until it's replacement is finished. You make additions in even layers, not towering chunks.</p><p>Yes i know this is the test server, but by your own admission this is a temporary state, which makes testing this pointless.</p><p>"we're definitely going to be putting a new steering wheel in here later, but for now just test drive the car without a steering wheel, thus making any feedback about how the car handles without a steering wheel useless."</p>

[Alenna]

<p><cite>Tylia@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Anastasie wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please say they are going to balance this prior to the gu so I don't have a full group of mages going splat every time a trauma ae hits them <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Oy, if this goes live before it's all sorted, I think I'll just stop raiding for a while.  It is not going to be pretty and to be honest, I'm not that fond of dying.. repeatedly.. for over 3 hours.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Lyndro!  Please reconsider this huge mistake of a change!!!</p></blockquote><p>I"m already having a little trouble going splat and 3 or 4 times on my 92/302 Lock  during the raids our causual raid force is doing and with this change I'll be on the floor hte whole time how is that going to help my raids dps hmm?</p><p>Give us back the ability to choose physical mit in the character select or put it auto maticaly in as you've done with noxious, arcane and elemental.  I choose the phys mit for a reason you do not give me pieces of armour or jewelry that up my physical mit only the other three. do something or I might have to try and talk my guild into letting me bring my Ranger out of retirement at least she has a better chance at survival.</p>

[Tigerr]

I cant believe this, I really cant. I understand if ALL of the foci were an ADDITION to our total stats, instead you guys managed to NERF us in the process... This was NOT needed at all. I don't understand why you would even announce this in the webcast, this is seriously pathetic... Like I mentioned earlier, your "Captain" has probably done less "sailing" than I have in the community pool. This is INSANE that you guys try to launch some "addition" ( which was not a bad idea but, NOT NEEDED) and end up nerfing 25 classes that are now TERRIFIED at the upcomming "adjustments" SoE, seriously... Stop... This didn't even NEED to be addressed in the webcast considering how great you made this "addition" out to be... The fighter upgrade is a complete joke and it really feels that noone on the team played a character passed level 20 based on these idiotic changes. Instead of breaking stuff that didn't even need to be touched, focus on the new zones that you guys STILL have not fixed... There are still dozens of broken mechanics and countless broken raid/heroic items. I understand the idea that you guys are "trying" but really, this is not doing ANYTHING but scaring the crap out of every single person that plays this game. Stop listening to the whiners, the majority of them have NO idea what they are talking about. Noone would be this upset if we all knew that with this mitigation decrease, each class would be boosted properly BEFORE the launch.. but we ALL know that is NOT going to happen and you guys are going to screw something up....again. If this is just a reason to nerf zones, dont... they are easy as is.. Its really pathetic, everytime I see a red name post, it makes me cringe, its sad that the players know more about the mechanics of this game (lvl 40+) than you guys do.

[Beko]

<p>Add 1% Damage Reduction per talent, that way it fairly gives every class the same advantage.</p>

[kdmorse]

<p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Howdy all,</p><p>Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.</p></blockquote><p>Translation:  "Yes, we're intentionally nerfing you blue.  But *trust us*, we'll come up with a new class by class mechanic at some undisclosed point in the future."</p><p>You don't have any *Trust Us* left.  You've used that line too many times.  But what really baffles me is the last bit:</p><p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis<strong> instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.</strong></p></blockquote><p>But... with this very change... you're doing exactly that...   you're making a blanket change for everyone that effects people unevenly.  You're making a mechanics change that hurts plate wearers a little, chain wearers a lot, and screws cloth wearers blue.</p><p>And we all know darn well you're going to launch GU64 that way, with a promise of "we'll address issues later".</p><p>Completely unbelievable...</p>

[Tigerr]

Pointless changes, If I were you guys, I'd change it back... These empty promises are getting old. You guys said we are getting an "upgrade" and how nice this new character tab will be... You took out PHYSICAL mit in the process. A HUGE stat that will make a HUGE difference. You said that it is different from class to class, some classes lose less, some lose more. With that thought process, you should take out EVERY SINGLE STAT IN THE GAME. Why would you even do this to begin with?.. It WAS NOTTTT needed. Stop messing up the game, its already fragile, instead, work on stuff that makes a difference instead of giving scrubs a way to get class focus from lvl 9. This may come off mean spirited but guess what, these changes are POINTLESS, and not only are they pointless, they are ALSO nerfing something thats a pretty big deal in the process. The team right now, has NO idea what they are doing. I find it HILARIOUS that with a change that is supposed to give handouts to everyone, you managed to take something OUT. Not one person trusts that you will do this the right way. I said it before and I will say it again..We can deal with the pointless changes and just shake our heads while you please the whiners, but pointless changes while ALSO nerfing us is not something the community will ignore.

[Piropiro]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Add 1% Damage Reduction per talent, that way it fairly gives every class the same advantage.</p></blockquote><p>no, bc then the classes with a lot of mit will come off better as they will still take less overall dps while it will be an insignificant amt for a cloth. no matter what is done it wont go into affect "evenly". some class will always take more advantage of anything in game. thats just the reality of it. you can't balance every single thing, what u have to do is understand how things will affect each class and give dif stats/skills/abilities etc to balance classes out. all this is, is a nerf on well, weak characters mitigation. it doens't help fighters either, but it slams mages/druids. when u loose half of your phys mit, u loose a lot more then 1% dmg reduction per rank. and this is the already weakest physical mit archtype in game.</p><p>giving a mage 1500 mit isn't anything super unbalanced like giving a class an ability that doubles their potency...</p>

[Novusod]

<p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Howdy all,</p><p>Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.</p></blockquote><p>Please consider putting mitigation increase on the Reforger NPC. This gives the player the option of choosing survivablitiy over DPS stats.</p>

[Hirofortis]

<p>I have to wonder if you really understand your own game at this point.  You have <strong>years</strong> of content tuned to a mitigation system that <strong>YOU</strong> are now saying is broken and does not work. <span style="color: #ffff00;"><span style="background-color: #221f1c; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example)"</span></span> The mitigation formula works fine.  There is no error in the mathematics.  At this point you are focusing on creating a problem instead of fixing all the other issues that are out there.  You feel there is an issue, fine, but come up with a solution before you use a nuke on our characters.  All you are doing is making an absolute mess out of every raider.  People are going to be 1 shotted and frustrated and want nothing but to quit becasue of the absolute poor management of this situation.  If you want to change it fine, but get a solution first.  Don't screw up 90% of the encounters in the game with such a stupid move. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  You are seriously making me doubt wether I want to play this game anymore and I have been playing SOE games for 14 years. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Beko]

<p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Add 1% Damage Reduction per talent, that way it fairly gives every class the same advantage.</p></blockquote><p>no, bc then the classes with a lot of mit will come off better as they will still take less overall dps while it will be an insignificant amt for a cloth. no matter what is done it wont go into affect "evenly". some class will always take more advantage of anything in game. thats just the reality of it. you can't balance every single thing, what u have to do is understand how things will affect each class and give dif stats/skills/abilities etc to balance classes out. all this is, is a nerf on well, weak characters mitigation. it doens't help fighters either, but it slams mages/druids. when u loose half of your phys mit, u loose a lot more then 1% dmg reduction per rank. and this is the already weakest physical mit archtype in game.</p><p>giving a mage 1500 mit isn't anything super unbalanced like giving a class an ability that doubles their potency...</p></blockquote><p>Wait... so its fine how it was before where it effected the lesser mitigation classes WAY better?</p><p>Kind of hypocritical, lets just remove it.</p>

[Hirofortis]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Add 1% Damage Reduction per talent, that way it fairly gives every class the same advantage.</p></blockquote><p>no, bc then the classes with a lot of mit will come off better as they will still take less overall dps while it will be an insignificant amt for a cloth. no matter what is done it wont go into affect "evenly". some class will always take more advantage of anything in game. thats just the reality of it. you can't balance every single thing, what u have to do is understand how things will affect each class and give dif stats/skills/abilities etc to balance classes out. all this is, is a nerf on well, weak characters mitigation. it doens't help fighters either, but it slams mages/druids. when u loose half of your phys mit, u loose a lot more then 1% dmg reduction per rank. and this is the already weakest physical mit archtype in game.</p><p>giving a mage 1500 mit isn't anything super unbalanced like giving a class an ability that doubles their potency...</p></blockquote><p>Wait... so its fine how it was before where it effected the lesser mitigation classes WAY better?</p><p>Kind of hypocritical, lets just remove it.</p></blockquote><p>All classes were effected the same by mitigation. NO class was treated differently with mitigation.  We all started at the bottom of the curve and worked our way up.  If you are at the top of the curve you get less than at the bottom so that as you got closer to the cap it was harder to max out.  This system is used in almost everythign in the game. Why is it suddenly messed up Lyndro?</p>

[Daalilama]

<p>I think there solution is for raiders to replace the squishes with more tanks in reckless stance afterall Atan himself pointed out in another thread that tanks in reckless should have all the tools to mitigate a 50% increase in damage while dps'in...lol if only this was some fairy tale where tanks could go hyper dps stance and squishes are getting 1 shotted by a 30-50% nerf in their mitigation against physical ae's and attcks..ohh wait nevermind.</p><p>/sarcasim off</p><p>This needs to be fixed not the night before live...now otherwise  I'd say put the physical mit back in until your "class by class" fix is ready to try out.</p>

[Hateeternal]

<p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Howdy all,</p><p>Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.</p></blockquote><p>You can't really be serious on that, aren't you realizing what you're just saying? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" /></p><p>If physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes there WILL bei unequal changes to all classes when this</p><p>kicks in and you ARE going to have even more problems in "adressing issues" as you are, with the current state.</p><p>You are trying to get to the issue from the wrong side - physical mitigation HAS to stay in the game as it is,</p><p>just make it invisible (like you did now with the other stuff, regen and such) and adress your issues on a real class to class basis, like you said.</p><p>This is just stupid and I'm starting to wonder if SOE is going down the same road with EQ2 now, than it did with SWG...</p><p>Changing everything which noone wants, etc... <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Piropiro]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Add 1% Damage Reduction per talent, that way it fairly gives every class the same advantage.</p></blockquote><p>no, bc then the classes with a lot of mit will come off better as they will still take less overall dps while it will be an insignificant amt for a cloth. no matter what is done it wont go into affect "evenly". some class will always take more advantage of anything in game. thats just the reality of it. you can't balance every single thing, what u have to do is understand how things will affect each class and give dif stats/skills/abilities etc to balance classes out. all this is, is a nerf on well, weak characters mitigation. it doens't help fighters either, but it slams mages/druids. when u loose half of your phys mit, u loose a lot more then 1% dmg reduction per rank. and this is the already weakest physical mit archtype in game.</p><p>giving a mage 1500 mit isn't anything super unbalanced like giving a class an ability that doubles their potency...</p></blockquote><p>Wait... so its fine how it was before where it effected the lesser mitigation classes WAY better?</p><p>Kind of hypocritical, lets just remove it.</p></blockquote><p>What is hypocritical about an equal add of mitigation to every class. does this mean we should remove every single stat that every class gets an equal amount because some class will be effected more? what is hypocritical is removing an equal numerical amt of mitigation increase that has been in the game for years that will destroy the weakest classes in game, yet add a stance for the strongest mitigated classes in game, drasticaly increasing their damage output. the day these two go live as it is i'm going back to consoles. this game is to screwed up already to suffer anymore screwed up mechanic inbalance issues.</p>

[Adegx]

<p><cite>Trennt@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Time has come to cancel my EQII accounts and start playing SW:TOR again? Thats just great, all the time I've spent recently gearing up my guardian to tank SS zones for my guild specced fully defensive/hate gain and the healers I have are having enough trouble to keep me alive already. On live I have what I consider to be a pretty decent amount of mitigation, with my standard group I am buffing to 75% (I believe I have 72-73% unbuffed) logged onto testcopy, bought all of my focus effects, and im down to 68% mitigation, to me this is totally unacceptable. I havent even had the heart to see how large this nerf is to my non fighter alts but if "clothies get more" then every one of my alts got beat down with this gigantic nerf bat and I don't see them getting back up. /mourn</p></blockquote><p>See? This is why we cant have nice things, or open communication. Every time SoE sticks their head out and says this undesirable change was intentional the haters and rage quitters come out to play.  Its no wonder they hide in their shell and dont tell us things.</p><p>Seriously people, Yes this <span style="text-decoration: underline;">probably </span>is an issue.  Go forth and TEST. Gather hard data.  I have yet to see a post such as</p><p>abc hits me on avg for X on live  vs  Y on test.</p><p>We need data if we are going to make SoE listen.  Data from clothies, from plates, from chain. Both live and test and both solo,heroic, and raid.</p><p>Go forth and TEST!</p>

[RafaelSmith]

<p><cite>Adegx@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Seriously people, Yes this <span style="text-decoration: underline;">probably </span>is an issue.  Go forth and TEST. Gather hard data.  I have yet to see a post such as</p><p>abc hits me on avg for X on live  vs  Y on test.</p><p>We need data if we are going to make SoE listen.  Data from clothies, from plates, from chain. Both live and test and both solo,heroic, and raid.</p><p>Go forth and TEST!</p></blockquote><p>Noting more satisfying than paying someone for the right to do their job for them.</p>

[Beko]

<p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Add 1% Damage Reduction per talent, that way it fairly gives every class the same advantage.</p></blockquote><p>no, bc then the classes with a lot of mit will come off better as they will still take less overall dps while it will be an insignificant amt for a cloth. no matter what is done it wont go into affect "evenly". some class will always take more advantage of anything in game. thats just the reality of it. you can't balance every single thing, what u have to do is understand how things will affect each class and give dif stats/skills/abilities etc to balance classes out. all this is, is a nerf on well, weak characters mitigation. it doens't help fighters either, but it slams mages/druids. when u loose half of your phys mit, u loose a lot more then 1% dmg reduction per rank. and this is the already weakest physical mit archtype in game.</p><p>giving a mage 1500 mit isn't anything super unbalanced like giving a class an ability that doubles their potency...</p></blockquote><p>Wait... so its fine how it was before where it effected the lesser mitigation classes WAY better?</p><p>Kind of hypocritical, lets just remove it.</p></blockquote><p>What is hypocritical about an equal add of mitigation to every class. does this mean we should remove every single stat that every class gets an equal amount because some class will be effected more? what is hypocritical is removing an equal numerical amt of mitigation increase that has been in the game for years that will destroy the weakest classes in game, yet add a stance for the strongest mitigated classes in game, drasticaly increasing their damage output. the day these two go live as it is i'm going back to consoles. this game is to screwed up already to suffer anymore screwed up mechanic inbalance issues.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, its about as equal as giving someone with 90% AOE Autoattack 50% More and someone with 0% AOE Autoattack 50% More, When the cap is 100%.</p><p>Wait... thats not equal at all!</p>

[kalaria]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, its about as equal as giving someone with 90% AOE Autoattack 50% More and someone with 0% AOE Autoattack 50% More, When the cap is 100%.</p><p>Wait... thats not equal at all!</p></blockquote><p>Actually, your "example" is horribly inaccurate.AE autoattack has a hard cap (which is stupid, yes I agree) so anything about 100 truely does absolutely nothing, regardless of the level of the mob you are fighting.</p><p>Mitigation, on the other hand is on a diminishing returns curve, so more mitigation always gives you something, even if not as much on the top end.  Moreover, the damage mitigation is also dependent on the level of the mob that is attacking you, so while mousing over your mitigation stat shows minimal gains for an increase vs a lvl 92 mob....  that increase will be much more useful when being attacked by a lvl 100 mob.</p>

[Piropiro]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Add 1% Damage Reduction per talent, that way it fairly gives every class the same advantage.</p></blockquote><p>no, bc then the classes with a lot of mit will come off better as they will still take less overall dps while it will be an insignificant amt for a cloth. no matter what is done it wont go into affect "evenly". some class will always take more advantage of anything in game. thats just the reality of it. you can't balance every single thing, what u have to do is understand how things will affect each class and give dif stats/skills/abilities etc to balance classes out. all this is, is a nerf on well, weak characters mitigation. it doens't help fighters either, but it slams mages/druids. when u loose half of your phys mit, u loose a lot more then 1% dmg reduction per rank. and this is the already weakest physical mit archtype in game.</p><p>giving a mage 1500 mit isn't anything super unbalanced like giving a class an ability that doubles their potency...</p></blockquote><p>Wait... so its fine how it was before where it effected the lesser mitigation classes WAY better?</p><p>Kind of hypocritical, lets just remove it.</p></blockquote><p>What is hypocritical about an equal add of mitigation to every class. does this mean we should remove every single stat that every class gets an equal amount because some class will be effected more? what is hypocritical is removing an equal numerical amt of mitigation increase that has been in the game for years that will destroy the weakest classes in game, yet add a stance for the strongest mitigated classes in game, drasticaly increasing their damage output. the day these two go live as it is i'm going back to consoles. this game is to screwed up already to suffer anymore screwed up mechanic inbalance issues.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, its about as equal as giving someone with 90% AOE Autoattack 50% More and someone with 0% AOE Autoattack 50% More, When the cap is 100%.</p><p>Wait... thats not equal at all!</p></blockquote><p>are you really that daft? the numerical value across the board is the same amount, same does by definition mean an equal amount. the GAIN is different, due to class and gear differences, but that is true on EVERY STAT. say ur a tank and im a mage, lets give us each 100 potency, and see if the gain is the same. of course it's not, does that mean we should remove potency from being shared also? no, this game is based off balancing the gains that different classes get from shared stats. the physical mitigation is the only thing that keeps some classes alive at all, and a lot of times its not even enough.</p><p>so your class happens to finally be at the point in itemization to where it can get a cap on physical mitigation, congratulations, mages have been caped at cast and reuse for over two years now. it doesn't mean that we should remove any other class from being able to get it. bc when we do we dont gain.</p>

[Drupal]

<p><cite>Adegx@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>See? This is why we cant have nice things, or open communication. Every time SoE sticks their head out and says this undesirable change was intentional the haters and rage quitters come out to play.  Its no wonder they hide in their shell and dont tell us things.</p><p>Seriously people, Yes this <span style="text-decoration: underline;">probably </span>is an issue.  Go forth and TEST. Gather hard data.  I have yet to see a post such as</p><p>abc hits me on avg for X on live  vs  Y on test.</p><p>We need data if we are going to make SoE listen.  Data from clothies, from plates, from chain. Both live and test and both solo,heroic, and raid.</p><p>Go forth and TEST!</p></blockquote><p>I am right with you bro, there's just one tiny little hiccup there. I am prepared to go and spen my time on test when SOE is paying me my rate of 40$ / hour. Until then, they can do the testing themselves, since it is in fact part of their job.</p>

[Beko]

<p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Add 1% Damage Reduction per talent, that way it fairly gives every class the same advantage.</p></blockquote><p>no, bc then the classes with a lot of mit will come off better as they will still take less overall dps while it will be an insignificant amt for a cloth. no matter what is done it wont go into affect "evenly". some class will always take more advantage of anything in game. thats just the reality of it. you can't balance every single thing, what u have to do is understand how things will affect each class and give dif stats/skills/abilities etc to balance classes out. all this is, is a nerf on well, weak characters mitigation. it doens't help fighters either, but it slams mages/druids. when u loose half of your phys mit, u loose a lot more then 1% dmg reduction per rank. and this is the already weakest physical mit archtype in game.</p><p>giving a mage 1500 mit isn't anything super unbalanced like giving a class an ability that doubles their potency...</p></blockquote><p>Wait... so its fine how it was before where it effected the lesser mitigation classes WAY better?</p><p>Kind of hypocritical, lets just remove it.</p></blockquote><p>What is hypocritical about an equal add of mitigation to every class. does this mean we should remove every single stat that every class gets an equal amount because some class will be effected more? what is hypocritical is removing an equal numerical amt of mitigation increase that has been in the game for years that will destroy the weakest classes in game, yet add a stance for the strongest mitigated classes in game, drasticaly increasing their damage output. the day these two go live as it is i'm going back to consoles. this game is to screwed up already to suffer anymore screwed up mechanic inbalance issues.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, its about as equal as giving someone with 90% AOE Autoattack 50% More and someone with 0% AOE Autoattack 50% More, When the cap is 100%.</p><p>Wait... thats not equal at all!</p></blockquote><p>are you really that daft? the numerical value across the board is the same amount, same does by definition mean an equal amount. the GAIN is different, due to class and gear differences, but that is true on EVERY STAT. say ur a tank and im a mage, lets give us each 100 potency, and see if the gain is the same. of course it's not, does that mean we should remove potency from being shared also? no, this game is based off balancing the gains that different classes get from shared stats. the physical mitigation is the only thing that keeps some classes alive at all, and a lot of times its not even enough.</p><p>so your class happens to finally be at the point in itemization to where it can get a cap on physical mitigation, congratulations, mages have been caped at cast and reuse for over two years now. it doesn't mean that we should remove any other class from being able to get it. bc when we do we dont gain.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, therefore not equal and ruining your argument.</p><p>Just Reuse And Cast Speed? Berserkers have been capped on DPS/Haste/AOE Autoattack for almost 4 years.</p><p>Reuse Speed was just recently capped.</p>

[kalaria]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, therefore not equal and ruining your argument.</p></blockquote><p>Ah so you have capped out physical mit in a raid situation then...Oh wait, you haven't?!</p><p>Well that rather sinks your argument there.</p>

[Beko]

<p><cite>kalaria wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, therefore not equal and ruining your argument.</p></blockquote><p>Ah so you have capped out physical mit in a raid situation then...Oh wait, you haven't?!</p><p>Well that rather sinks your argument there.</p></blockquote><p>Yes I hit the Hard Cap/Diminishing Returns curve, where 1000 Mit = 0.1% Damage Reduction.</p><p>Feels like getting Multi Attack past 600%, you might as well not bother.</p>

[Adegx]

<p><cite>Drupal wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Adegx@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>See? This is why we cant have nice things, or open communication. Every time SoE sticks their head out and says this undesirable change was intentional the haters and rage quitters come out to play.  Its no wonder they hide in their shell and dont tell us things.</p><p>Seriously people, Yes this <span style="text-decoration: underline;">probably </span>is an issue.  Go forth and TEST. Gather hard data.  I have yet to see a post such as</p><p>abc hits me on avg for X on live  vs  Y on test.</p><p>We need data if we are going to make SoE listen.  Data from clothies, from plates, from chain. Both live and test and both solo,heroic, and raid.</p><p>Go forth and TEST!</p></blockquote><p>I am right with you bro, there's just one tiny little hiccup there. I am prepared to go and spen my time on test when SOE is paying me my rate of 40$ / hour. Until then, they can do the testing themselves, since it is in fact part of their job.</p></blockquote><p>No pay required, i see lots of whining about how this will ruin the game...You cant make a blanket statement like that and not back it up with facts. Tell SoE WHY it will ruin the game.</p>

[Outkast1980]

<p><cite>Adegx@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Drupal wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Adegx@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>See? This is why we cant have nice things, or open communication. Every time SoE sticks their head out and says this undesirable change was intentional the haters and rage quitters come out to play.  Its no wonder they hide in their shell and dont tell us things.</p><p>Seriously people, Yes this <span style="text-decoration: underline;">probably </span>is an issue.  Go forth and TEST. Gather hard data.  I have yet to see a post such as</p><p>abc hits me on avg for X on live  vs  Y on test.</p><p>We need data if we are going to make SoE listen.  Data from clothies, from plates, from chain. Both live and test and both solo,heroic, and raid.</p><p>Go forth and TEST!</p></blockquote><p>I am right with you bro, there's just one tiny little hiccup there. I am prepared to go and spen my time on test when SOE is paying me my rate of 40$ / hour. Until then, they can do the testing themselves, since it is in fact part of their job.</p></blockquote><p>No pay required, i see lots of whining about how this will ruin the game...You cant make a blanket statement like that and not back it up with facts. Tell SoE WHY it will ruin the game.</p></blockquote><p>1.) It's not our job to go to do the calculations to that extent. I have a job thank you. Testing stuff they put it as is, yes, no pay required and more then ok. </p><p>2.) Very few people have threatened to rage quit in this post.</p><p>3.) 95% of posters here have given several/numerous ideas on how this will ruin the game.</p>

[vexrm]

<p>Okay, here's the question, what is the purpose of this change? What are we supposed to see? How is this supposed to be balanced. A good tester can't test without an idea of the reason why. At least not beyond the "yes the mitigation was removed"</p><p>So, mitigation was removed SOE. That's my testing notes. Tell me what the thought process was behind this. Tell me if it's supposed to impact raid difficulty. Tell me if it's supposed to help plate tanks and hurt cloth tanks. Tell me the thought process. Without the thought process I'm just a basic tester going "Yeap it's there".</p><p>I will say this, it encourages me to adorn a ton more health as a meleeing chanter. Happily (?) I seem to have slots freed up for this. It does seem counter to the "Choose your own adorments".</p>

[Mathrim]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, therefore not equal and ruining your argument.</p><p>Just Reuse And Cast Speed? Berserkers have been capped on DPS/Haste/AOE Autoattack for almost 4 years.</p><p>Reuse Speed was just recently capped.</p></blockquote><p>Wow. This is just so unfair to Berserkers.</p><p>To be the only class that is hard capped on DPS/Haste. It's just not fair that every other class in game gets to conver DPS Mod to weapon damage past 200 and all of those other mean classes get to convert Haste to flurry after 200.</p><p>We couldn't possibly ask Sony to allow those Berserkers to do something else with the one thing they are actually capped on (AE autoattack) now could we. I mean, if Sony would just implement some sort of way to ....reforge....into a more useful stat.</p>

[Beko]

<p><cite>Mathrim@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, therefore not equal and ruining your argument.</p><p>Just Reuse And Cast Speed? Berserkers have been capped on DPS/Haste/AOE Autoattack for almost 4 years.</p><p>Reuse Speed was just recently capped.</p></blockquote><p>Wow. This is just so unfair to Berserkers.</p><p>To be the only class that is hard capped on DPS/Haste. It's just not fair that every other class in game gets to conver DPS Mod to weapon damage past 200 and all of those other mean classes get to convert Haste to flurry after 200.</p><p>We couldn't possibly ask Sony to allow those Berserkers to do something else with the one thing they are actually capped on (AE autoattack) now could we. I mean, if Sony would just implement some sort of way to ....reforge....into a more useful stat.</p></blockquote><p>I can reforge my abilties!?</p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>Adegx@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>See? This is why we cant have nice things, or open communication. Every time SoE sticks their head out and says this undesirable change was intentional the haters and rage quitters come out to play.  Its no wonder they hide in their shell and dont tell us things.</p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Open communication has been little to non existant for some time now. Go look at the developer roundtable forum. It might be an effective tool in the military to punish the masses for the actions of a few, because the masses can actually excert 'force' on the few to put them in line. It is unacceptable for SOE to behave in this manner. Pretty much every thread in there is SET and FORGET mode there may be a token red response in there, but more than likely if it is a red response it has 2 digits on the end of it informing the post has been moved, and comes after page after page after page of people trying to get clarification and and understanding of WHY something is being done.</span></p><p>Seriously people, Yes this<span style="text-decoration: line-through;"> <span style="text-decoration: underline;">probably</span></span>  <span style="color: #ffcc00;"><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">MOST DEFINATELY</span></strong> </span>is an issue.  Go forth and TEST. Gather hard data.  I have yet to see a post such as</p><p>abc hits me on avg for X on live  vs  Y on test.</p><p>We need data if we are going to make SoE listen.  Data from clothies, from plates, from chain. Both live and test and both solo,heroic, and raid.</p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Good luck getting that data for raid on test, I'll check with our raid force and see if everyone want to copy a toon over there to do free <em><strong>alpha </strong></em>testing of this idea.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Drunder gear is STILL not fixed yet, 1 year later. Now they are about to make a change that is going to have a major impact on every facet of the game for cloth/leather, prob a medium impact on chain and a minimal affect on plate, this is being done because (according to the straightforward response by Lyndro which I for one was glad to at least see) of the dimishing returns curve that it provides it will be better to do it in reverse in a way that negatively impacts EVERYONE in the game, and actually because of that dimishing returns curve it has an even more drastic impact to the negative side.</span></p><p>Go forth and TEST!</p></blockquote>

[T'Pol]

<p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Howdy all,</p><p>Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.</p></blockquote><p>I really wonder what this is all about.</p><p>Ok you claim this got removed because it was unbalanced and unfair for certain classes. But by removing this you are going to make it unbalanced. People told you over and over again what this change will do to cloth and leather wearers but you continue to ignore it. You are the lead designer you SHOULD know what this change will do to the all the classes.</p><p>You want to fix this on a class to class basis? Ok then delay that mitigation removal patch until you worked out your class by class fix. Why WHY remove mitigation now when theres no fix yet. Is this your way of screwing with people or just incompetence?</p>

[Tylia]

<p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Howdy all,</p><p>Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.</p></blockquote><p>Ok, I "get" that you want to fix and balance everything.  What I don't "get" is why you would just take something away with only a "we'll fix the issues this will cause, eventually" (yeah, my words, not yours), instead of having a definite and implementable plan in place right from the start?  Your post here suggests that you havn't yet developed a plan, and your actions of just tossing the physical mitigation choices out the window without a suitable replacement speaks volumes.  So your plan is to "address issues" on a "class by class basis".  That's great, but it would be a much wiser move to formulate and complete your plan before you toss out the current structure.</p><p>edit for spelling</p>

[Mathrim]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Mathrim@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, therefore not equal and ruining your argument.</p><p>Just Reuse And Cast Speed? Berserkers have been capped on DPS/Haste/AOE Autoattack for almost 4 years.</p><p>Reuse Speed was just recently capped.</p></blockquote><p>Wow. This is just so unfair to Berserkers.</p><p>To be the only class that is hard capped on DPS/Haste. It's just not fair that every other class in game gets to conver DPS Mod to weapon damage past 200 and all of those other mean classes get to convert Haste to flurry after 200.</p><p>We couldn't possibly ask Sony to allow those Berserkers to do something else with the one thing they are actually capped on (AE autoattack) now could we. I mean, if Sony would just implement some sort of way to ....reforge....into a more useful stat.</p></blockquote><p>I can reforge my abilties!?</p></blockquote><p>So just exactly what all do you want to whine about here? You think yours is the only class who has buffs that are being invalidated by Skyshrine gear? Why don't you ask around and see how many classes are unhappy that they have temp buffs that give +casting speed that noone wants. Temp buffs that give Reuse when all of the people in the group are maxed. Temp buffs for MA when the dps classes are all hitting the soft cap without them. Buffs for accuracy when people are already able to cap hit rates. Etc. Etc. Ad naseum. The list goes on and on.</p><p>The point is, everyone has something to whine about with different effects and abilities. The fact that you don't get to benefit as much from the mitigation line and AE auto line isn't a justifciation for you to be able to say the nerf <strong>is reasonable for everyone else. </strong>Telling 75% of the other classes in game to just tough it out and deal with the fact that they are going to be dying more and getting hit harder because you feel neglected is just insulting.</p><p>How about this. I think it's unfair that Berserkers get innate 100% AE auto attack with their mythical when I actually have to reforge and gear for it. I petition that we nerf Berserkers because it isn't fair that the other 23 classes don't get to beneift the same as beserkers.</p>

[Beko]

<p>Well, if its not beneficial for me, then it shouldn't be on the character tab which is , it should be in your advanced achievements.</p>

[Tylia]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well, if its not beneficial for me, then it shouldn't be on the character tab which is , it should be in your advanced achievements.</p></blockquote><p>That's a very illogical reason for removing the choice, as that is exactly what it is... a choice.  Just because it is available on your character tab does not mean that you have to choose it.  If it isn't beneficial to you, then choose something else.  There are far more classes that the choice IS beneficial to, to the point of making the difference between life and death in a fight.  Not everything on a character tab is absolutely beneficial to that race/class.</p>

[Mermut]

<p><cite>Adegx@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>See? This is why we cant have nice things, or open communication. Every time SoE sticks their head out and says this undesirable change was intentional the haters and rage quitters come out to play.  Its no wonder they hide in their shell and dont tell us things.</p><p>Seriously people, Yes this <span style="text-decoration: underline;">probably </span>is an issue.  Go forth and TEST. Gather hard data.  I have yet to see a post such as</p><p>abc hits me on avg for X on live  vs  Y on test.</p><p>We need data if we are going to make SoE listen.  Data from clothies, from plates, from chain. Both live and test and both solo,heroic, and raid.</p><p>Go forth and TEST!</p></blockquote><p>That's the thing.. we don't HAVE to do new tests, we've got current data that already shows how this will impact raids. Mages who were getting one-shot by trama AEs have respecced to the physical mitigation on the character developement tab and stopped getting one shot by the trama AEs with no other gear changes. This is OLD DATA. We don't need to run new tests to prove that losing over 1k physical mitigation is going to be deadly for cloth wearers. We'v got examples already of the difference in survivability it makes. This change is going to mandate a shaman in the mage group for raids.. because no other healer type can consistently prevent group-wide one-shots.. if the damage in is more then the hps.. only wards prevent a one-shot.</p>

[Beko]

<p><cite>Tylia@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well, if its not beneficial for me, then it shouldn't be on the character tab which is , it should be in your advanced achievements.</p></blockquote><p>That's a very illogical reason for removing the choice, as that is exactly what it is... a choice.  Just because it is available on your character tab does not mean that you have to choose it.  If it isn't beneficial to you, then choose something else.  There are far more classes that the choice IS beneficial to, to the point of making the difference between life and death in a fight.  Not everything on a character tab is absolutely beneficial to that race/class.</p></blockquote><p>There was no "choice" everyone picked mitigation/max health.</p><p>Now if it was.</p><p>(Per Talent.) 150 Mitigation/2% Critical Bonus/2% Potency/5% in Combat Run speed... then there would be choice...</p><p>That means you could either go with more damage, or more survivability, or more movement speed, something equally beneficial.</p>

[Twyxx]

<p><cite>vexrm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Okay, here's the question, what is the purpose of this change? What are we supposed to see? How is this supposed to be balanced. A good tester can't test without an idea of the reason why. At least not beyond the "yes the mitigation was removed"</p><p>So, mitigation was removed SOE. That's my testing notes. Tell me what the thought process was behind this. Tell me if it's supposed to impact raid difficulty. Tell me if it's supposed to help plate tanks and hurt cloth tanks. Tell me the thought process. Without the thought process I'm just a basic tester going "Yeap it's there".</p></blockquote><p>Yes, this is my thought as well.  Okay, so you've confirmed it's intended.  So, explain what this is supposed to fix or how you plan to compensate for the change and when it will happen.  It can't just be "raids are too easy, how can we make them harder."  It's too big a change to just let it go live with a "we'll see how it goes and fix down the road" mentality.</p>

[Tylia]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tylia@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well, if its not beneficial for me, then it shouldn't be on the character tab which is , it should be in your advanced achievements.</p></blockquote><p>That's a very illogical reason for removing the choice, as that is exactly what it is... a choice.  Just because it is available on your character tab does not mean that you have to choose it.  If it isn't beneficial to you, then choose something else.  There are far more classes that the choice IS beneficial to, to the point of making the difference between life and death in a fight.  Not everything on a character tab is absolutely beneficial to that race/class.</p></blockquote><p>There was no "choice" everyone picked mitigation/max health.</p><p>Now if it was.</p><p>(Per Talent.) 150 Mitigation/1.5% Critical Bonus/2% Potency/5% in Combat Run speed... then there would be choice...</p><p>That means you could either go with more damage, or more survivability, or more movement speed, something equally beneficial.</p></blockquote><p>Wrong, it was/is a choice.  Just because "everyone" picked it, does not mean anything.  Everyone still had/has the option to CHOOSE something else.  I don't care if they add other things or not, as long as they put the CHOICE of physical mit back in.</p>

[Xelgad]

<p>Hey everyone, just popping in to give you an update on changes coming to the Test Server shortly.</p><p>For all you magefolk, your Magi's Shielding will grant a decent amount of physical mitigation to go along with its other bonuses.</p><p>All priest physical mitigation buffs - Armor of Seasons, Armor of Nature, Sacred Armor, Runic Armor, Holy Armor and Shroud of Armor now grant over 50% more mitigation than before.</p><p>Scout self buffs will also grant some physical mitigation, like Magi's Shielding. The enhanced abilities are Savage Ruin, Bladeweaver, Daelis' Dance of Blades, Death's Door, Villainy and Hunter's Instinct. Street Smarts has had the amount of mitigation granted increased.</p><p>All fighter defensive stances - Armored, Unflinching Will, Crouching Tiger, Bodyguard, Knight's Stance and Lucan's Pact all grant 5% Physical Damage Reduction.</p><p>We look forward to your feedback while you test these changes!</p>

[Dethdlr]

<p>@Xelgad: Thank you very much for droping in here and posting this.  Once that goes to test we actually have something to test out.</p><p>@Lyndro: The last several pages and many people being furious about this change could have easily been avoided by simple adjusting what you said in the first place from this:</p><p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Howdy all,</p><p>Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.</p></blockquote><p>To this:</p><p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 should have wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Howdy all,</p><p>Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects.  In the next few days you will see changes for each class that will address the loss of physical mitigation from the character development tab.  There will be plenty of time to test these changes out before the next GU. </p></blockquote><p>I do appreciate you posting on the forums and at least trying to let us know what's going on.  But please try not to leave the big huge important pieces out like this. lol.  You told us, X is going away, instead of X is being replaced by Y.  The last part is pretty important.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Tylia]

<p>Thank you for that information Xelgad.  I look forward to seeing the result of these changes.</p>

[kalaria]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kalaria wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, therefore not equal and ruining your argument.</p></blockquote><p>Ah so you have capped out physical mit in a raid situation then...Oh wait, you haven't?!</p><p>Well that rather sinks your argument there.</p></blockquote><p>Yes I hit the Hard Cap/Diminishing Returns curve, where 1000 Mit = 0.1% Damage Reduction.</p><p>Feels like getting Multi Attack past 600%, you might as well not bother.</p></blockquote><p>That mouse over is for mitigation against a lvl 92 mob.. the curve changes SIGNIFICANTLY against a lvl 100 mob.... which are what everyone actually fights.</p>

[vexrm]

<p><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hey everyone, just popping in to give you an update on changes coming to the Test Server shortly.</p><p>For all you magefolk, your Magi's Shielding will grant a decent amount of physical mitigation to go along with its other bonuses.</p><p>All priest physical mitigation buffs - Armor of Seasons, Armor of Nature, Sacred Armor, Runic Armor, Holy Armor and Shroud of Armor now grant over 50% more mitigation than before.</p><p>Scout self buffs will also grant some physical mitigation, like Magi's Shielding. The enhanced abilities are Savage Ruin, Bladeweaver, Daelis' Dance of Blades, Death's Door, Villainy and Hunter's Instinct. Street Smarts has had the amount of mitigation granted increased.</p><p>All fighter defensive stances - Armored, Unflinching Will, Crouching Tiger, Bodyguard, Knight's Stance and Lucan's Pact all grant 5% Physical Damage Reduction.</p><p>We look forward to your feedback while you test these changes!</p></blockquote><p>Thanks, Xelgad. Could you tell us if you expect survivability to go down, up, or stay about the same? </p>

[kalaria]

<p><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>All priest physical mitigation buffs - Armor of Seasons, Armor of Nature, Sacred Armor, Runic Armor, Holy Armor and Shroud of Armor now grant over 50% more mitigation than before.</p></blockquote><p>If I recall, those priest buffs grant ~ 1k physical mit.  a 50% increase is an additional 500 mit.</p><p>That is still over 1k less mit than what priests had before you removed the trait option... and especially for druids who have the lowest armor mit of them all, it will be still deadly.</p>

[Daalilama]

<p><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hey everyone, just popping in to give you an update on changes coming to the Test Server shortly.</p><p>For all you magefolk, your Magi's Shielding will grant a decent amount of physical mitigation to go along with its other bonuses.</p><p><strong>All priest physical mitigation buffs - Armor of Seasons, Armor of Nature, Sacred Armor, Runic Armor, Holy Armor and Shroud of Armor now grant over 50% more mitigation than before.</strong></p><p>Scout self buffs will also grant some physical mitigation, like Magi's Shielding. The enhanced abilities are Savage Ruin, Bladeweaver, Daelis' Dance of Blades, Death's Door, Villainy and Hunter's Instinct. Street Smarts has had the amount of mitigation granted increased.</p><p>All fighter defensive stances - Armored, Unflinching Will, Crouching Tiger, Bodyguard, Knight's Stance and Lucan's Pact all grant 5% Physical Damage Reduction.</p><p>We look forward to your feedback while you test these changes!</p></blockquote><p>I read this then did some rough estimates sorry not at home atm but based upon this statement an increase of 50% mitigation to holy armor is still a nerf to mitigation just only smaller when I get home I'll run the numbers.</p>

[Beko]

<p><cite>kalaria wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>All priest physical mitigation buffs - Armor of Seasons, Armor of Nature, Sacred Armor, Runic Armor, Holy Armor and Shroud of Armor now grant over 50% more mitigation than before.</p></blockquote><p>If I recall, those priest buffs grant ~ 1k physical mit.  a 50% increase is an additional 500 mit.</p><p>That is still over 1k less mit than what priests had before you removed the trait option... and especially for druids who have the lowest armor mit of them all, it will be still deadly.</p></blockquote><p>Then you can add in the mage buffs, its more then before for mages.</p><p>It also makes the druid Prestige AA that adds Mitigation ALOT better of a choice.</p>

[gourdon]

<p><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hey everyone, just popping in to give you an update on changes coming to the Test Server shortly.</p><p>For all you magefolk, your Magi's Shielding will grant a decent amount of physical mitigation to go along with its other bonuses.</p><p>All priest physical mitigation buffs - Armor of Seasons, Armor of Nature, Sacred Armor, Runic Armor, Holy Armor and Shroud of Armor now grant over 50% more mitigation than before.</p><p>Scout self buffs will also grant some physical mitigation, like Magi's Shielding. The enhanced abilities are Savage Ruin, Bladeweaver, Daelis' Dance of Blades, Death's Door, Villainy and Hunter's Instinct. Street Smarts has had the amount of mitigation granted increased.</p><p>All fighter defensive stances - Armored, Unflinching Will, Crouching Tiger, Bodyguard, Knight's Stance and Lucan's Pact all grant 5% Physical Damage Reduction.</p><p>We look forward to your feedback while you test these changes!</p></blockquote><p>We are already dependent to a ridiculous level on priests and this just makes it worse since we will need one or more around to recover mitigation that was once intrinsic to us.  The inability of the devs to think about more than a couple of configurations makes me want to quit playing your stupid game that you keep on breaking.  How about you just put it back they way it was.  If you programmed yourselves into a corner and can't get out, think of a better way to return it than this.  If you don't make it intrinsic to the individual, you are transferring the power, over to the priests in this case.</p>

[Daalilama]

<p><cite>Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hey everyone, just popping in to give you an update on changes coming to the Test Server shortly.</p><p>For all you magefolk, your Magi's Shielding will grant a decent amount of physical mitigation to go along with its other bonuses.</p><p><strong>All priest physical mitigation buffs - Armor of Seasons, Armor of Nature, Sacred Armor, Runic Armor, Holy Armor and Shroud of Armor now grant over 50% more mitigation than before.</strong></p><p>Scout self buffs will also grant some physical mitigation, like Magi's Shielding. The enhanced abilities are Savage Ruin, Bladeweaver, Daelis' Dance of Blades, Death's Door, Villainy and Hunter's Instinct. Street Smarts has had the amount of mitigation granted increased.</p><p>All fighter defensive stances - Armored, Unflinching Will, Crouching Tiger, Bodyguard, Knight's Stance and Lucan's Pact all grant 5% Physical Damage Reduction.</p><p>We look forward to your feedback while you test these changes!</p></blockquote><p>I read this then did some rough estimates sorry not at home atm but based upon this statement an increase of 50% mitigation to holy armor is still a nerf to mitigation just only smaller when I get home I'll run the numbers.</p></blockquote><p>K home now.</p><p>Lets start with some basic facts here.</p><p>1656 is the total physical mitigation each person gets from the character developement tab.</p><p>1240 is the current physical mitigation holy armor 7 gives to my group, adding in a 50% increase that brings up to 1860 physical mitigation for groups.</p><p>Using a best case scenario wherein scouts/mages and tanks personal mitigation increases coupled with say a 2 healer group setup will be roughly at the physical mitigation they had prior to the character developement nerf, you are still forgetting about the healers personal mitigation.  Case in point, using the 620 mitigation as an example of myself (a templar) and another healer as tandem both getting same amount of mitigation increase that brings an increase of only 1240 mitigation to the healers (we would still be losing out on 416 mitigation).  As was stated earlier druids will be the hardest hit by this loss followed by shamans then clerics due to the increasing amount of ae damage they are going to have to heal.  In addition, in raid the average mage group is generally solo healed either by a druid or inquisitor to get the most dps possible for the raid...this mitigation change will force all raid guilds to start employing duo healers in all groups to mitigate the lower physical mitigation as applied to all raiders in general and healers in particular.  This change if not adjusted so that healers have just as much survivability will start to impead progression and raid mobs that were easy will become harder overall.  Not sure if healer personal mitigation was an omission by mistake or intentional.</p><p>Sidenotes...</p><p>Current skyshrine armor has less mitigation than DoV1 (Drunder/Kael/Kraytoks)....so before this nerf the player bases was already slightly lower mitigation wise...this nerf just increases this problem.</p><p>Reforger is this change goes in as planned needs to add mitigation(physical) as well as ever other available stat in the game to be a real option...let the players decide if they want to reforge for stats/RU/Mit/etc.</p><p>Red and yellow mitigation slot adorns from paineel and faction adorns from DoV1 could allow those mit adorns to be placed on any piece of armor instead of just on the chest.</p><p>Just some thoughts.</p>

[Kreton]

<p><cite>Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>K home now.</p><p>Lets start with some basic facts here.</p><p>1656 is the total physical mitigation each person gets from the character developement tab.</p><p>1240 is the current physical mitigation holy armor 7 gives to my group, adding in a 50% increase that brings up to 1860 physical mitigation for groups.</p><p>Using a best case scenario wherein scouts/mages and tanks personal mitigation increases coupled with say a 2 healer group setup will be roughly at the physical mitigation they had prior to the character developement nerf, you are still forgetting about the healers personal mitigation.  Case in point, using the 620 mitigation as an example of myself (a templar) and another healer as tandem both getting same amount of mitigation increase that brings an increase of only 1240 mitigation to the healers (we would still be losing out on 416 mitigation).</p></blockquote><p>The mit on priest mit buffs don't stack, so you're only going to get the highest of the 2 mit buffs in a 2 priest group.</p>

[Daalilama]

<p><cite>Kreton wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>K home now.</p><p>Lets start with some basic facts here.</p><p>1656 is the total physical mitigation each person gets from the character developement tab.</p><p>1240 is the current physical mitigation holy armor 7 gives to my group, adding in a 50% increase that brings up to 1860 physical mitigation for groups.</p><p>Using a best case scenario wherein scouts/mages and tanks personal mitigation increases coupled with say a 2 healer group setup will be roughly at the physical mitigation they had prior to the character developement nerf, you are still forgetting about the healers personal mitigation.  Case in point, using the 620 mitigation as an example of myself (a templar) and another healer as tandem both getting same amount of mitigation increase that brings an increase of only 1240 mitigation to the healers (we would still be losing out on 416 mitigation).</p></blockquote><p>The mit on priest mit buffs don't stack, so you're only going to get the highest of the 2 mit buffs in a 2 priest group.</p></blockquote><p>Wow yeah I guess my best case scenario just went in the dumper....fast....just what I want to be possibly pushed out of hm drunder and skyshrine to em drunder due to shortsightedness.</p>

[Alenna]

<p><cite>Adegx@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Trennt@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Time has come to cancel my EQII accounts and start playing SW:TOR again? Thats just great, all the time I've spent recently gearing up my guardian to tank SS zones for my guild specced fully defensive/hate gain and the healers I have are having enough trouble to keep me alive already. On live I have what I consider to be a pretty decent amount of mitigation, with my standard group I am buffing to 75% (I believe I have 72-73% unbuffed) logged onto testcopy, bought all of my focus effects, and im down to 68% mitigation, to me this is totally unacceptable. I havent even had the heart to see how large this nerf is to my non fighter alts but if "clothies get more" then every one of my alts got beat down with this gigantic nerf bat and I don't see them getting back up. /mourn</p></blockquote><p>See? This is why we cant have nice things, or open communication. Every time SoE sticks their head out and says this undesirable change was intentional the haters and rage quitters come out to play.  Its no wonder they hide in their shell and dont tell us things.</p><p>Seriously people, Yes this <span style="text-decoration: underline;">probably </span>is an issue.  Go forth and TEST. Gather hard data.  I have yet to see a post such as</p><p>abc hits me on avg for X on live  vs  Y on test.</p><p>We need data if we are going to make SoE listen.  Data from clothies, from plates, from chain. Both live and test and both solo,heroic, and raid.</p><p>Go forth and TEST!</p></blockquote><p>no probably about it this change will drastically cut down my Warlock(new raid main) benefit to our raid force as she will be unable to do any dps while she is flat on her face dead after bieng 1 shotted all the time. have my physical mit is gone with the change, and there is no real way to get it through armor or jewelry as the others can be. you bet i'm going to be testing her unfortunelty i don;t think any one eveno nTest copy will want a  clothie who can't stay alive to do any damage on a PUR</p><p>I do hope that they rund some raids to test this that is hte only chance I"ll have ot give htem the data like how many times I die compared to live.</p>

[Alenna]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well, if its not beneficial for me, then it shouldn't be on the character tab which is , it should be in your advanced achievements.</p></blockquote><p>well actually the choice was there to take what was benefical before, dont' need any more physical mit well you you could take arcane, noxious or elemental mit, now they took the choice away to put in the focus but wait what is this i see on the focus description. this focus will also add to your arcane, noxious and elemental mit. oh great we aren't loosing those and we don't have to sacrifice any of those to choose one. but wait where is hte physical mit oh well I cna just og get some armour that will help htat oh wait i;m a clothie my armour gives me little to know physical mit where am I going to get the 50% physical mit I lost.</p>

[Kreton]

<p>The entire thing seems a bit ridiculous to me.  Taking away mit only to try and give it back via various abilitiess.  Every class is getting mit buffs on their self buffs but priests, who are getting it on their nonstacking group buff.  So everyone in the group will benefit from self mit + priest mit, except priests.  Really hurting the druids and followed by shaman.  Because these priest mit buffs don't even stack, the priests are going to be losing a lot without self mit buffs.  If you wanted to tune this per class seeing as some are higher on the mit curve than others, then you should be giving priests self mit buffs.  Or let every priest get the benefit of plate mit, and that will simplify gear drops even more than having stuff being split into priest leather, priest chain, and priest plate.</p><p>I always thought it was a bit much when they first added physical mit to the choices.  It's the hardest mit to increase, and everyone would be silly not to choose it over the magic resists.  But taking it away and then trying to give back this mit via abilities, makes me feel like you are making some complicated change to try and accomplish the same thing.  If you want to tune the mit benefit per class, then tune it right by addressing priests mit outside of their group buff.</p>

[gourdon]

<p><cite>Kreton wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The entire thing seems a bit ridiculous to me.  Taking away mit only to try and give it back via various abilitiess.  Every class is getting mit buffs on their self buffs but priests, who are getting it on their nonstacking group buff.  So everyone in the group will benefit from self mit + priest mit, except priests.  Really hurting the druids and followed by shaman.  Because these priest mit buffs don't even stack, the priests are going to be losing a lot without self mit buffs.  If you wanted to tune this per class seeing as some are higher on the mit curve than others, then you should be giving priests self mit buffs.  Or let every priest get the benefit of plate mit, and that will simplify gear drops even more than having stuff being split into priest leather, priest chain, and priest plate.</p><p>I always thought it was a bit much when they first added physical mit to the choices.  It's the hardest mit to increase, and everyone would be silly not to choose it over the magic resists.  But taking it away and then trying to give back this mit via abilities, makes me feel like you are making some complicated change to try and accomplish the same thing.  If you want to tune the mit benefit per class, then tune it right by addressing priests mit outside of their group buff.</p></blockquote><p>The game experience has been tested extensively with the mitigation in.  Changing the amount we get when they make all of the other changes is not smart.</p>

[kdmorse]

<p><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hey everyone, just popping in to give you an update on changes coming to the Test Server shortly.</p><p>For all you magefolk, your Magi's Shielding will grant a decent amount of physical mitigation to go along with its other bonuses.</p><p>All priest physical mitigation buffs - Armor of Seasons, Armor of Nature, Sacred Armor, Runic Armor, Holy Armor and Shroud of Armor now grant over 50% more mitigation than before.</p><p>Scout self buffs will also grant some physical mitigation, like Magi's Shielding. The enhanced abilities are Savage Ruin, Bladeweaver, Daelis' Dance of Blades, Death's Door, Villainy and Hunter's Instinct. Street Smarts has had the amount of mitigation granted increased.</p><p>All fighter defensive stances - Armored, Unflinching Will, Crouching Tiger, Bodyguard, Knight's Stance and Lucan's Pact all grant 5% Physical Damage Reduction.</p><p>We look forward to your feedback while you test these changes!</p></blockquote><p>Thank you for stopping by. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>But I'm still a little confused. </p><p>If the end result is mit and damage reduction levels on a par with what we have now, why go through all these hoops?  Stripping away physical Mit from the character traits, and then adding it back, in carefully portioned fashions, as class buffs to achieve the same result seems unnecessarily complicated. Very complicated.  Will the intended fix scale across levels (ie, if tuned for a level 90 in current gear, will a level 70 still end up balanced correctly?), people with varying qualities of gear,  etc...?</p><p>If the end result is below what we had, then it's still a nerf, and suddenly we've both been nerfed and overcomplicated.</p><p>And if the end result is more mitigation than we started with, well, I guess we can't complain, but it's still an overly complicated solution...</p><p>You seem to be replacing one well understood knob, which may have been imperfect, with 12 different class specific knobs, which just is never going to turn out right...</p>

[Beko]

<p>You guys are not READING into this Well.</p><p>This makes traits that increase those abilities mitigations MUCH better and makes it easier for lower leveled players to level and solo and group.</p><p>Focus Effects for priests/mages that improve the mitigation on those abilities just got x2 better, and the aas that improve them did as well.</p>

[Piropiro]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You guys are not READING into this Well.</p><p>This makes traits that increase those abilities mitigations MUCH better and makes it easier for lower leveled players to level and solo and group.</p><p>Focus Effects for priests/mages that improve the mitigation on those abilities just got x2 better, and the aas that improve them did as well.</p></blockquote><p>Except, now priests will be forced into putting aa into those abilities if they didn't previously, just to get close to the same result, and it still wont get them the amt of mitigation they had before. Really you should stop talking about classes you quite obviously know nothing about.</p>

[denmom]

<p><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hey everyone, just popping in to give you an update on changes coming to the Test Server shortly.</p><p>For all you magefolk, your Magi's Shielding will grant a decent amount of physical mitigation to go along with its other bonuses.</p><p>All priest physical mitigation buffs - Armor of Seasons, Armor of Nature, Sacred Armor, Runic Armor, Holy Armor and Shroud of Armor now grant over 50% more mitigation than before.</p><p>Scout self buffs will also grant some physical mitigation, like Magi's Shielding. The enhanced abilities are Savage Ruin, Bladeweaver, Daelis' Dance of Blades, Death's Door, Villainy and Hunter's Instinct. Street Smarts has had the amount of mitigation granted increased.</p><p>All fighter defensive stances - Armored, Unflinching Will, Crouching Tiger, Bodyguard, Knight's Stance and Lucan's Pact all grant 5% Physical Damage Reduction.</p><p>We look forward to your feedback while you test these changes!</p></blockquote><p>So...nothing for the fighter offensive stances?  No physical miti at all?</p><p>I know too many tanks, from raid to casual, who run in offensive stance on overland/instances.  I myself am in that group.  My Paladin has enough defense etc in off stance to take hits.  She was deliberately spec'd that way because I solo/duo/small group with her and need to be able to do a decent amount of dps.</p><p>But removing the physical miti she has currently and placing it within the defensive stance only will force a change in playing.  I will <em>have to</em> place my Paladin within defensive stance at all times if I want the same protection she had before these changes.</p><p>This will force quite a few, I'd wager to say quite a number, of tanks to do the same thing.  The new Recklessness won't have the physical miti.  Offensive stance won't have it.  Just Defensive.  This is a forced change.  Yes, one can just not run in Def stance and stay in Off.  But that's just a guarantee in quite an amount of down time and deaths due to not having enough physical miti to withstand whatever it is the player goes up against, be it overland, instance, or raid.</p><p>A suggestion: why not go the route of the Scouts?  Why not put the physical miti into the tank self buffs?  This will allow the player their choices once again of going either Def, Off, or Recklessness.</p>

[Beko]

<p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You guys are not READING into this Well.</p><p>This makes traits that increase those abilities mitigations MUCH better and makes it easier for lower leveled players to level and solo and group.</p><p>Focus Effects for priests/mages that improve the mitigation on those abilities just got x2 better, and the aas that improve them did as well.</p></blockquote><p>Except, now priests will be forced into putting aa into those abilities if they didn't previously, just to get close to the same result, and it still wont get them the amt of mitigation they had before. Really you should stop talking about classes you quite obviously know nothing about.</p></blockquote><p>My priest can spend 280 AA and get everything he needs pretty much, 40 more AA's to spend on whatever.</p><p>I agree, remove the damage reduction on stances and put them on Self Buffs.</p>

[Piropiro]

<p>reckless stance should have a -5000 phys mit component to it, then it'd actually be reckless.</p><p>TBH i dont see why you dont just keep the physical mit in the focus's, and just add 5% dmg reduction to fighters def stance. That way you appease everybody, and i have ZERO issue with my raids guardian getting an extra 5% dmg reduction in defensive. plus, it removes you guys from screwing up more stuff than you already are so far. Can you please stop doing itemization with a program? Cuz good god if thats not a program just wow.</p>

[Piropiro]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You guys are not READING into this Well.</p><p>This makes traits that increase those abilities mitigations MUCH better and makes it easier for lower leveled players to level and solo and group.</p><p>Focus Effects for priests/mages that improve the mitigation on those abilities just got x2 better, and the aas that improve them did as well.</p></blockquote><p>Except, now priests will be forced into putting aa into those abilities if they didn't previously, just to get close to the same result, and it still wont get them the amt of mitigation they had before. Really you should stop talking about classes you quite obviously know nothing about.</p></blockquote><p>My priest can spend 280 AA and get everything he needs pretty much, 40 more AA's to spend on whatever.</p><p>I agree, remove the damage reduction on stances and put them on Self Buffs.</p></blockquote><p>it depends on what aa's you have in what trees and if you have the available aa's in that tree. i have plenty of aa's free on my fury, but i can't spend them where i need/want to. and i'd be happy to have 20 more aa in every tree tbh, theres plenty to gain still. It's more the fact that they would be penalized by being forced to spend them on that, when there is no justification to.</p>

[Beko]

<p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>reckless stance should have a -5000 phys mit component to it, then it'd actually be reckless.</p><p>TBH i dont see why you dont just keep the physical mit in the focus's, and just add 5% dmg reduction to fighters def stance. That way you appease everybody, and i have ZERO issue with my raids guardian getting an extra 5% dmg reduction in defensive. plus, it removes you guys from screwing up more stuff than you already are so far. Can you please stop doing itemization with a program? Cuz good god if thats not a program just wow.</p></blockquote><p>Can I please have my offensive stances proc put on another buff... please!?</p>

[Jrral]

<p><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hey everyone, just popping in to give you an update on changes coming to the Test Server shortly.</p><p>For all you magefolk, your Magi's Shielding will grant a decent amount of physical mitigation to go along with its other bonuses.</p><p>All priest physical mitigation buffs - Armor of Seasons, Armor of Nature, Sacred Armor, Runic Armor, Holy Armor and Shroud of Armor now grant over 50% more mitigation than before.</p><p>Scout self buffs will also grant some physical mitigation, like Magi's Shielding. The enhanced abilities are Savage Ruin, Bladeweaver, Daelis' Dance of Blades, Death's Door, Villainy and Hunter's Instinct. Street Smarts has had the amount of mitigation granted increased.</p><p>All fighter defensive stances - Armored, Unflinching Will, Crouching Tiger, Bodyguard, Knight's Stance and Lucan's Pact all grant 5% Physical Damage Reduction.</p><p>We look forward to your feedback while you test these changes!</p></blockquote><p>I guess my question would be: "What problem is this intended to solve?"</p><p>When the diminishing-returns curve was introduced we had a clear problem it was intended to resolve, a damage curve where in order to do enough damage to plate tanks to be noticed mobs had to hit so hard that cloth and leather wearers were being one-shotted with no possibility of doing anything about it. But I'm not seeing a problem for this change to solve, or am I missing something? The closest thing to a problem might be that everybody's taking physical resist in their character development, because we can get plenty of the other resists from gear and physical's the only thing we need to chase. Mages aren't overly squishy, and at least in group instances and raids they aren't so tough that they can ignore AOEs. Leather and chain classes don't seem to be unbalanced in terms of how much damage they can take. So what exactly is supposed to be not working in terms of game mechanics that these changes address? I'm confused because I don't see anything obviously broken, and I long ago learned that when coding things the old rule still holds: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it.".</p>

[Daalilama]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You guys are not READING into this Well.</p><p>This makes traits that increase those abilities mitigations MUCH better and makes it easier for lower leveled players to level and solo and group.</p><p><strong>Focus Effects for priests/mages that improve the mitigation on those abilities just got x2 better, and the aas that improve them did as well.</strong></p></blockquote><p>Umm not quite....I'm looking at a whopping group mit increase of 620 added to Holy Armor's current 1240 to make the new current 1860...however remember everyone is losing first the 1656 mit from the character dev tab first....basiclly after its all "balanced" out I'm losing in the neighborhood of bout 1036 mitigation from my templar...not sure how you are coming up with a <strong>"2x better"</strong> for priests...and thats with my focus effect.</p>

[Tylia]

<p><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hey everyone, just popping in to give you an update on changes coming to the Test Server shortly.</p><p>For all you magefolk, your Magi's Shielding will grant a decent amount of physical mitigation to go along with its other bonuses.</p><p>All priest physical mitigation buffs - Armor of Seasons, Armor of Nature, Sacred Armor, Runic Armor, Holy Armor and Shroud of Armor now grant over 50% more mitigation than before.</p><p>Scout self buffs will also grant some physical mitigation, like Magi's Shielding. The enhanced abilities are Savage Ruin, Bladeweaver, Daelis' Dance of Blades, Death's Door, Villainy and Hunter's Instinct. Street Smarts has had the amount of mitigation granted increased.</p><p>All fighter defensive stances - Armored, Unflinching Will, Crouching Tiger, Bodyguard, Knight's Stance and Lucan's Pact all grant 5% Physical Damage Reduction.</p><p>We look forward to your feedback while you test these changes!</p></blockquote><p>I looked at some numbers and I'm not liking what I'm seeing.  As it stands now, Tylia has 6122 physical mit with Armor of Nature cast.  You plan on taking 1656 of that away, leaving 4466.  Now you are granting an additional 50% mit to Armor of Nature,  which (Mastered) is currently at 1564.  So adding in another 782 mit, and my physical mit will be 5246.  I'm still losing 876 physical mitigation.  I'm sorry, but I still fail to see why I'm getting such a nerf on physical mit.  Can you please explain?</p><p>edited for spelling and to add that I already have 5 points in Armor of Nature on Shadows tree so it is as maxed as it's going to get.</p>

[Beko]

<p>Hold the Line (Guardian)</p><p>Aggressive Defence (Berserker)</p><p>Innoruuk's Caress (Shadowknight)</p><p>Blessing of the Paladin (Paladin)</p><p>Bob and Weave (Bruiser)</p><p>Inner Calm (Monk) </p><p>Add 5% Physical Damage Reduction to those Buffs, not the Defensive Stances.</p><p>Also Tylia, you never got Sunwell, it also improves your Mitigation if your so worried about it, that would bring ya back up!</p><div></div>

[Kreton]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You guys are not READING into this Well.</p><p>This makes traits that increase those abilities mitigations MUCH better and makes it easier for lower leveled players to level and solo and group.</p><p>Focus Effects for priests/mages that improve the mitigation on those abilities just got x2 better, and the aas that improve them did as well.</p></blockquote><p>How does a 50% increase make a focus and AA twice as good?  It doesn't, it makes them give 50% more than they did previously.  A 15% AA and a 25% foci for mit increase takes a 1079 mit buff to 1510.  An increase of 431 (40%).  Now after this 50% buff, that mit buff now gives 1618 base, and the AA/foci will boost it further to 2265.  Making the AA/foci give an increase of 647, which unsurprisingly is just close to a 50% boost from it previously.</p><p>So in this example, the priest has only gained 755 total mit than they had previously from the buff (assuming they were spec'd mit AA and had the foci).  Clearly a nerf for the priest.  It does not stack with any other priests mit buffs, so this is all they will be gaining from this change.  And it hits hardest on the leather and chain priests.  Meanwhile every other person in this priests group (except other priests) is benefiting from an additional self mit buff on top of the groupwide priest buff, so they will at least be somewhat better off than the priest.</p>

[denmom]

<p><cite>Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You guys are not READING into this Well.</p><p>This makes traits that increase those abilities mitigations MUCH better and makes it easier for lower leveled players to level and solo and group.</p><p><strong>Focus Effects for priests/mages that improve the mitigation on those abilities just got x2 better, and the aas that improve them did as well.</strong></p></blockquote><p>Umm not quite....I'm looking at a whopping group mit increase of 620 added to Holy Armor's current 1240 to make the new current 1860...however remember everyone is losing first the 1656 mit from the character dev tab first....basiclly after its all "balanced" out I'm losing in the neighborhood of bout 1036 mitigation from my templar...not sure how you are coming up with a <strong>"2x better"</strong> for priests...and thats with my focus effect.</p></blockquote><p>Hey Daali, what's the percentage mitigated?  Are those numbers greatly changed between before and after?  Thanks in advance!</p>

[Beko]

<p><cite>Kreton wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You guys are not READING into this Well.</p><p>This makes traits that increase those abilities mitigations MUCH better and makes it easier for lower leveled players to level and solo and group.</p><p>Focus Effects for priests/mages that improve the mitigation on those abilities just got x2 better, and the aas that improve them did as well.</p></blockquote><p>How does a 50% increase make a focus and AA twice as good?  It doesn't, it makes them give 50% more than they did previously.  A 15% AA and a 25% foci for mit increase takes a 1079 mit buff to 1510.  An increase of 431 (40%).  Now after this 50% buff, that mit buff now gives 1618 base, and the AA/foci will boost it further to 2265.  Making the AA/foci give an increase of 647, which unsurprisingly is just close to a 50% boost from it previously.</p><p>So in this example, the priest has only gained 755 total mit than they had previously from the buff (assuming they were spec'd mit AA and had the foci).  Clearly a nerf for the priest.  It does not stack with any other priests mit buffs, so this is all they will be gaining from this change.  And it hits hardest on the leather and chain priests.  Meanwhile every other person in this priests group is benefiting from an additional self mit buff on top of the groupwide priest buff, so they will at least be somewhat better off than the priest.</p></blockquote><p>Group with another priest/get it back, or group with a guardian if you need more Mit.</p>

[Piropiro]

<p>Again, i say just put the phys mit back, and give the fighters a 5% dmg reduction in defensive stance, no reason they should get an extra 5% reduction while in offensive/recklessness when it would really be just a free 5% dmg reduction to them and soe not screwing over everybody else.</p>

[Kreton]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kreton wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You guys are not READING into this Well.</p><p>This makes traits that increase those abilities mitigations MUCH better and makes it easier for lower leveled players to level and solo and group.</p><p>Focus Effects for priests/mages that improve the mitigation on those abilities just got x2 better, and the aas that improve them did as well.</p></blockquote><p>How does a 50% increase make a focus and AA twice as good?  It doesn't, it makes them give 50% more than they did previously.  A 15% AA and a 25% foci for mit increase takes a 1079 mit buff to 1510.  An increase of 431 (40%).  Now after this 50% buff, that mit buff now gives 1618 base, and the AA/foci will boost it further to 2265.  Making the AA/foci give an increase of 647, which unsurprisingly is just close to a 50% boost from it previously.</p><p>So in this example, the priest has only gained 755 total mit than they had previously from the buff (assuming they were spec'd mit AA and had the foci).  Clearly a nerf for the priest.  It does not stack with any other priests mit buffs, so this is all they will be gaining from this change.  And it hits hardest on the leather and chain priests.  Meanwhile every other person in this priests group is benefiting from an additional self mit buff on top of the groupwide priest buff, so they will at least be somewhat better off than the priest.</p></blockquote><p>Group with another priest/get it back, or group with a guardian if you need more Mit.</p></blockquote><p>What part of "priest mit buffs dont stack with each other" do you not understand.  You group with another priest and dont gain any more mit unless their mit buff happens to be higher than yours, then you'll only gain w/e the difference is.</p>

[Beko]

<p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Again, i say just put the phys mit back, and give the fighters a 5% dmg reduction in defensive stance, no reason they should get an extra 5% reduction while in offensive/recklessness when it would really be just a free 5% dmg reduction to them and soe not screwing over everybody else.</p></blockquote><p><p>Hold the Line (Guardian)</p><p>Aggressive Defence (Berserker)</p><p>Innoruuk's Caress (Shadowknight)</p><p>Blessing of the Paladin (Paladin)</p><p>Bob and Weave (Bruiser)</p><p>Inner Calm (Monk) </p><p>Add 5% Physical Damage Reduction to those Buffs, not the Defensive Stances.</p></p>

[Daalilama]

<p><cite>Kreton wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You guys are not READING into this Well.</p><p>This makes traits that increase those abilities mitigations MUCH better and makes it easier for lower leveled players to level and solo and group.</p><p>Focus Effects for priests/mages that improve the mitigation on those abilities just got x2 better, and the aas that improve them did as well.</p></blockquote><p>How does a 50% increase make a focus and AA twice as good?  It doesn't, it makes them give 50% more than they did previously.  A 15% AA and a 25% foci for mit increase takes a 1079 mit buff to 1510.  An increase of 431 (40%).  Now after this 50% buff, that mit buff now gives 1618 base, and the AA/foci will boost it further to 2265.  Making the AA/foci give an increase of 647, which unsurprisingly is just close to a 50% boost from it previously.</p><p>So in this example, the priest has only gained 755 total mit than they had previously from the buff (assuming they were spec'd mit AA and had the foci).  Clearly a nerf for the priest.  It does not stack with any other priests mit buffs, so this is all they will be gaining from this change.  And it hits hardest on the leather and chain priests.  Meanwhile every other person in this priests group is benefiting from an additional self mit buff on top of the groupwide priest buff, so they will at least be somewhat better off than the priest.</p></blockquote><p>Bingo.....considering priests will gain roughly from 600 - 800 mit depending on class/aa/focus its still a net loss...if this goes in as is a raid mobs passing gas will nuke us harder than before.  I'm still unsure why priests were given an enhanced group mit but and on top of that they dont stack and on top of that no self mit buff...again while it appears that this nerf will affect healers primarily it actually affects the entire raid as I'd venture to say scout/mage mit increases will be in line or lower than what priests get and even with 2 healers in group (with the highest mit buff between the 2 being used) it will still be lower mitigation than previously...this isnt rocket science its simple math.</p>

[Piropiro]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Again, i say just put the phys mit back, and give the fighters a 5% dmg reduction in defensive stance, no reason they should get an extra 5% reduction while in offensive/recklessness when it would really be just a free 5% dmg reduction to them and soe not screwing over everybody else.</p></blockquote><p>Hold the Line (Guardian)</p><p>Aggressive Defence (Berserker)</p><p>Innoruuk's Caress (Shadowknight)</p><p>Blessing of the Paladin (Paladin)</p><p>Bob and Weave (Bruiser)</p><p>Inner Calm (Monk) </p><p>Add 5% Physical Damage Reduction to those Buffs, not the Defensive Stances.</p></blockquote><p>why, justify why you should get physical dmg reductions in your offensive stances, when you are the most well off in phys mit in game. even with the most lenient idea of giving you a free 5% dmg reduction on ur defensive stance AND keeping the phys mit you already have, you want more. where as every other class is just trying to not get screwed over.</p><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;">[Edited for non-constructive, off-topic commentary.]</span></p>

[Beko]

<p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Again, i say just put the phys mit back, and give the fighters a 5% dmg reduction in defensive stance, no reason they should get an extra 5% reduction while in offensive/recklessness when it would really be just a free 5% dmg reduction to them and soe not screwing over everybody else.</p></blockquote><p>Hold the Line (Guardian)</p><p>Aggressive Defence (Berserker)</p><p>Innoruuk's Caress (Shadowknight)</p><p>Blessing of the Paladin (Paladin)</p><p>Bob and Weave (Bruiser)</p><p>Inner Calm (Monk) </p><p>Add 5% Physical Damage Reduction to those Buffs, not the Defensive Stances.</p></blockquote><p><span ><p>why, justify why you should get physical dmg reductions in your offensive stances, when you are the most well off in phys mit in game. even with the most lenient idea of giving you a free 5% dmg reduction on ur defensive stance AND keeping the phys mit you already have, you want more. where as every other class is just trying to not get screwed over.</p><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;">[Edited for non-constructive, off-topic commentary.]</span></p></span></p></blockquote><p>Joust.</p><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;">[Edited for quoting forum violation.]</span></p>

[Piropiro]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Again, i say just put the phys mit back, and give the fighters a 5% dmg reduction in defensive stance, no reason they should get an extra 5% reduction while in offensive/recklessness when it would really be just a free 5% dmg reduction to them and soe not screwing over everybody else.</p></blockquote><p>Hold the Line (Guardian)</p><p>Aggressive Defence (Berserker)</p><p>Innoruuk's Caress (Shadowknight)</p><p>Blessing of the Paladin (Paladin)</p><p>Bob and Weave (Bruiser)</p><p>Inner Calm (Monk) </p><p>Add 5% Physical Damage Reduction to those Buffs, not the Defensive Stances.</p></blockquote><p><span ><p>why, justify why you should get physical dmg reductions in your offensive stances, when you are the most well off in phys mit in game. even with the most lenient idea of giving you a free 5% dmg reduction on ur defensive stance AND keeping the phys mit you already have, you want more. where as every other class is just trying to not get screwed over.</p><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;">[Edited for non-constructive, off-topic commentary.]</span></p></span></p></blockquote><p>Joust.</p></blockquote><p>I'm a mage, im always out, but you can't 100% avoid every aoe by jousting. just i'm done with you lol.</p><p><span ><span style="color: #ff00ff;">[Edited for non-constructive, off-topic commentary.]</span></span></p>

[Tylia]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hold the Line (Guardian)</p><p>Aggressive Defence (Berserker)</p><p>Innoruuk's Caress (Shadowknight)</p><p>Blessing of the Paladin (Paladin)</p><p>Bob and Weave (Bruiser)</p><p>Inner Calm (Monk) </p><p>Add 5% Physical Damage Reduction to those Buffs, not the Defensive Stances.</p><p>Also Tylia, you never got Sunwell, it also improves your Mitigation if your so worried about it, that would bring ya back up!</p><div></div></blockquote><p>I'm sorry, what?  I have no clue what you are talking about and after reading all of your posts in this thread, I'm positive you don't either.  Seriously.</p>

[Beko]

<p><cite>Tylia@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hold the Line (Guardian)</p><p>Aggressive Defence (Berserker)</p><p>Innoruuk's Caress (Shadowknight)</p><p>Blessing of the Paladin (Paladin)</p><p>Bob and Weave (Bruiser)</p><p>Inner Calm (Monk) </p><p>Add 5% Physical Damage Reduction to those Buffs, not the Defensive Stances.</p><p>Also Tylia, you never got Sunwell, it also improves your Mitigation if your so worried about it, that would bring ya back up!</p><div></div></blockquote><p>I'm sorry, what?  I have no clue what you are talking about and after reading all of your posts in this thread, I'm positive you don't either.  Seriously.</p></blockquote><p>Sunwell is one of your AA's that improves Mitigation...</p><p>Also... those are buffs that the fighters have that are until canceled....</p>

[Tylia]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tylia@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hold the Line (Guardian)</p><p>Aggressive Defence (Berserker)</p><p>Innoruuk's Caress (Shadowknight)</p><p>Blessing of the Paladin (Paladin)</p><p>Bob and Weave (Bruiser)</p><p>Inner Calm (Monk) </p><p>Add 5% Physical Damage Reduction to those Buffs, not the Defensive Stances.</p><p>Also Tylia, you never got Sunwell, it also improves your Mitigation if your so worried about it, that would bring ya back up!</p><div></div></blockquote><p>I'm sorry, what?  I have no clue what you are talking about and after reading all of your posts in this thread, I'm positive you don't either.  Seriously.</p></blockquote><p>Sunwell is one of your AA's that improves Mitigation...</p><p>Also... those are buffs that the fighters have that are until canceled....</p></blockquote><p>If you are talking about Secular Protection, it only increases the mit values of Master of the Hunt, which only increases mit values against elemental damage.  That does not help.  Otherwise, I still have no clue what you are talking about.  I do not have any AA called Sunwell.  So, you still have no clue what you are talking about either.</p><p>And thank you for the explaination of the fighter buffs you had listed.</p>

[Beko]

<p><cite>Tylia@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tylia@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hold the Line (Guardian)</p><p>Aggressive Defence (Berserker)</p><p>Innoruuk's Caress (Shadowknight)</p><p>Blessing of the Paladin (Paladin)</p><p>Bob and Weave (Bruiser)</p><p>Inner Calm (Monk) </p><p>Add 5% Physical Damage Reduction to those Buffs, not the Defensive Stances.</p><p>Also Tylia, you never got Sunwell, it also improves your Mitigation if your so worried about it, that would bring ya back up!</p><div></div></blockquote><p>I'm sorry, what?  I have no clue what you are talking about and after reading all of your posts in this thread, I'm positive you don't either.  Seriously.</p></blockquote><p>Sunwell is one of your AA's that improves Mitigation...</p><p>Also... those are buffs that the fighters have that are until canceled....</p></blockquote><p>If you are talking about Secular Protection, it only increases the mit values of Master of the Hunt, which only increases mit values against elemental damage.  That does not help.  Otherwise, I still have no clue what you are talking about.  I do not have any AA called Sunwell.  So, you still have no clue what you are talking about either.</p><p>And thank you for the explaination of the fighter buffs you had listed.</p></blockquote><p>Oh my bad, I thought you were a Warden.</p><p>Signatures disabled.</p>

[Tylia]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tylia@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite> </cite></p><p>Sunwell is one of your AA's that improves Mitigation...</p><p>Also... those are buffs that the fighters have that are until canceled....</p></blockquote><p>If you are talking about Secular Protection, it only increases the mit values of Master of the Hunt, which only increases mit values against elemental damage.  That does not help.  Otherwise, I still have no clue what you are talking about.  I do not have any AA called Sunwell.  So, you still have no clue what you are talking about either.</p><p>And thank you for the explaination of the fighter buffs you had listed.</p></blockquote><p>Oh my bad, I thought you were a Warden.</p><p>Signatures disabled.</p></blockquote><p>So I logged in to my little warden and discovered what this Sunwall (not Sunwell) is that you were going on about.  I have something similar called Armored Vines, that I respecced and put points in to just to see how much of an increase in mit values are added to my heal over time spells.  It isn't much, only 465 to Hibernation, and 490 to Autumn's Kiss.  It also adds a small mit increase to my single target hot, which I do not cast on myself.  While I do try to keep Hibernation and Autumn's Kiss up as much as possible, I should NOT be expected to keep hots going JUST to increase my physical mitigation values back up to what they were BEFORE all of this fiasco of a change.  That is just absolutely ridiculous!</p>

[Beko]

<p><cite>Tylia@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tylia@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite> </cite></p><p>Sunwell is one of your AA's that improves Mitigation...</p><p>Also... those are buffs that the fighters have that are until canceled....</p></blockquote><p>If you are talking about Secular Protection, it only increases the mit values of Master of the Hunt, which only increases mit values against elemental damage.  That does not help.  Otherwise, I still have no clue what you are talking about.  I do not have any AA called Sunwell.  So, you still have no clue what you are talking about either.</p><p>And thank you for the explaination of the fighter buffs you had listed.</p></blockquote><p>Oh my bad, I thought you were a Warden.</p><p>Signatures disabled.</p></blockquote><p>So I logged in to my little warden and discovered what this Sunwall (not Sunwell) is that you were going on about.  I have something similar called Armored Vines, that I respecced and put points in to just to see how much of an increase in mit values are added to my heal over time spells.  It isn't much, only 465 to Hibernation, and 490 to Autumn's Kiss.  It also adds a small mit increase to my single target hot, which I do not cast on myself.  While I do try to keep Hibernation and Autumn's Kiss up as much as possible, I should NOT be expected to keep hots going JUST to increase my physical mitigation values back up to what they were BEFORE all of this fiasco of a change.  That is just absolutely ridiculous!</p></blockquote><p>Um.. I cast heals even when they don't need it, just in case, because reuses are so low. (2/4 seconds.)</p>

[Tylia]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tylia@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tylia@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite> </cite></p><p>Sunwell is one of your AA's that improves Mitigation...</p><p>Also... those are buffs that the fighters have that are until canceled....</p></blockquote><p>If you are talking about Secular Protection, it only increases the mit values of Master of the Hunt, which only increases mit values against elemental damage.  That does not help.  Otherwise, I still have no clue what you are talking about.  I do not have any AA called Sunwell.  So, you still have no clue what you are talking about either.</p><p>And thank you for the explaination of the fighter buffs you had listed.</p></blockquote><p>Oh my bad, I thought you were a Warden.</p><p>Signatures disabled.</p></blockquote><p>So I logged in to my little warden and discovered what this Sunwall (not Sunwell) is that you were going on about.  I have something similar called Armored Vines, that I respecced and put points in to just to see how much of an increase in mit values are added to my heal over time spells.  It isn't much, only 465 to Hibernation, and 490 to Autumn's Kiss.  It also adds a small mit increase to my single target hot, which I do not cast on myself.  While I do try to keep Hibernation and Autumn's Kiss up as much as possible, I should NOT be expected to keep hots going JUST to increase my physical mitigation values back up to what they were BEFORE all of this fiasco of a change.  That is just absolutely ridiculous!</p></blockquote><p>Um.. I cast heals even when they don't need it, just in case, because reuses are so low. (2/4 seconds.)</p></blockquote><p>Um.. that isn't the point.  We aren't discussing when heals should be cast.  We are discussing the fact that priests are being nerfed when it comes to physical mitigation.  The little 50% in mit values that are added to our group buff are no where near the amount of physical mit that is being taken away.  And btw.. I certainly dont need a "lesson" on how to heal.</p>

[Hirofortis]

<p><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hey everyone, just popping in to give you an update on changes coming to the Test Server shortly.</p><p>For all you magefolk, your Magi's Shielding will grant a decent amount of physical mitigation to go along with its other bonuses.</p><p>All priest physical mitigation buffs - Armor of Seasons, Armor of Nature, Sacred Armor, Runic Armor, Holy Armor and Shroud of Armor now grant over 50% more mitigation than before.</p><p>Scout self buffs will also grant some physical mitigation, like Magi's Shielding. The enhanced abilities are Savage Ruin, Bladeweaver, Daelis' Dance of Blades, Death's Door, Villainy and Hunter's Instinct. Street Smarts has had the amount of mitigation granted increased.</p><p>All fighter defensive stances - Armored, Unflinching Will, Crouching Tiger, Bodyguard, Knight's Stance and Lucan's Pact all grant 5% Physical Damage Reduction.</p><p>We look forward to your feedback while you test these changes!</p></blockquote><p>Thank you for addressing our concerns.  If you could now fix test so we could get on it would be appreciated.  Locks up every time try to get in.  </p><p>For the rest, it appears that they are trying to work out a way to group more.  Yes, we are loosing 1600 mit.  But they are adding it back in the healer buffs and our individual buffs.  This if done right will have the net effect of keeping the same amount of mit while encourgaing grouping.  It will make soloing a little harder, but healers might actually be needed for the extra mit buffs.  </p><p>Again, please fix test so we can all get on and test the changes.</p>

[denmom]

<p><cite>Hirofortis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hey everyone, just popping in to give you an update on changes coming to the Test Server shortly.</p><p>For all you magefolk, your Magi's Shielding will grant a decent amount of physical mitigation to go along with its other bonuses.</p><p>All priest physical mitigation buffs - Armor of Seasons, Armor of Nature, Sacred Armor, Runic Armor, Holy Armor and Shroud of Armor now grant over 50% more mitigation than before.</p><p>Scout self buffs will also grant some physical mitigation, like Magi's Shielding. The enhanced abilities are Savage Ruin, Bladeweaver, Daelis' Dance of Blades, Death's Door, Villainy and Hunter's Instinct. Street Smarts has had the amount of mitigation granted increased.</p><p>All fighter defensive stances - Armored, Unflinching Will, Crouching Tiger, Bodyguard, Knight's Stance and Lucan's Pact all grant 5% Physical Damage Reduction.</p><p>We look forward to your feedback while you test these changes!</p></blockquote><p>Thank you for addressing our concerns.  If you could now fix test so we could get on it would be appreciated.  Locks up every time try to get in.  </p><p>For the rest, it appears that they are trying to work out a way to group more.  Yes, we are loosing 1600 mit.  But they are adding it back in the healer buffs and our individual buffs.  This if done right will have the net effect of keeping the same amount of mit while encourgaing grouping.  It will make soloing a little harder, but healers might actually be needed for the extra mit buffs.  </p><p>Again, please fix test so we can all get on and test the changes.</p></blockquote><p>Hah, I'm not the only one who saw this change as a way to make people have to group.</p><p>It's also striking very close to home of the failed attempt at the fighter revamp.</p>

[Piropiro]

<p><cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hirofortis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hey everyone, just popping in to give you an update on changes coming to the Test Server shortly.</p><p>For all you magefolk, your Magi's Shielding will grant a decent amount of physical mitigation to go along with its other bonuses.</p><p>All priest physical mitigation buffs - Armor of Seasons, Armor of Nature, Sacred Armor, Runic Armor, Holy Armor and Shroud of Armor now grant over 50% more mitigation than before.</p><p>Scout self buffs will also grant some physical mitigation, like Magi's Shielding. The enhanced abilities are Savage Ruin, Bladeweaver, Daelis' Dance of Blades, Death's Door, Villainy and Hunter's Instinct. Street Smarts has had the amount of mitigation granted increased.</p><p>All fighter defensive stances - Armored, Unflinching Will, Crouching Tiger, Bodyguard, Knight's Stance and Lucan's Pact all grant 5% Physical Damage Reduction.</p><p>We look forward to your feedback while you test these changes!</p></blockquote><p>Thank you for addressing our concerns.  If you could now fix test so we could get on it would be appreciated.  Locks up every time try to get in.  </p><p>For the rest, it appears that they are trying to work out a way to group more.  Yes, we are loosing 1600 mit.  But they are adding it back in the healer buffs and our individual buffs.  This if done right will have the net effect of keeping the same amount of mit while encourgaing grouping.  It will make soloing a little harder, but healers might actually be needed for the extra mit buffs.  </p><p>Again, please fix test so we can all get on and test the changes.</p></blockquote><p>Hah, I'm not the only one who saw this change as a way to make people have to group.</p><p>It's also striking very close to home of the failed attempt at the fighter revamp.</p></blockquote><p>except this does nothing for the healers who are getting hossed. druids especially will be drasticaly hindered by this change.</p>

[Daalilama]

<p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hirofortis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hey everyone, just popping in to give you an update on changes coming to the Test Server shortly.</p><p>For all you magefolk, your Magi's Shielding will grant a decent amount of physical mitigation to go along with its other bonuses.</p><p>All priest physical mitigation buffs - Armor of Seasons, Armor of Nature, Sacred Armor, Runic Armor, Holy Armor and Shroud of Armor now grant over 50% more mitigation than before.</p><p>Scout self buffs will also grant some physical mitigation, like Magi's Shielding. The enhanced abilities are Savage Ruin, Bladeweaver, Daelis' Dance of Blades, Death's Door, Villainy and Hunter's Instinct. Street Smarts has had the amount of mitigation granted increased.</p><p>All fighter defensive stances - Armored, Unflinching Will, Crouching Tiger, Bodyguard, Knight's Stance and Lucan's Pact all grant 5% Physical Damage Reduction.</p><p>We look forward to your feedback while you test these changes!</p></blockquote><p>Thank you for addressing our concerns.  If you could now fix test so we could get on it would be appreciated.  Locks up every time try to get in.  </p><p>For the rest, it appears that they are trying to work out a way to group more.  Yes, we are loosing 1600 mit.  <strong>But they are adding it back in the healer buffs and our individual buffs.</strong>  This if done right will have the net effect of keeping the same amount of mit while encourgaing grouping.  It will make soloing a little harder, but healers might actually be needed for the extra mit buffs.  </p><p>Again, please fix test so we can all get on and test the changes.</p></blockquote><p>Hah, I'm not the only one who saw this change as a way to make people have to group.</p><p>It's also striking very close to home of the failed attempt at the fighter revamp.</p></blockquote><p>except this does nothing for the healers who are getting hossed. druids especially will be drasticaly hindered by this change.</p></blockquote><p>Not quite but let me break this down easy right now on top of everyones normal physical mit from gear we get an additional 1656 physical mitigation via the character developement tab.  With this change that is gone.</p><p>Now as for healers...I'll use my templar as an example, holy armor currently is 1240 physical mit to group with the proposed 50% increase to that it now becomes 1860 physical mit.  My mitigation buff for the group has increased by 620 but my personal mitigation has dropped by 1036.  If a second healer is in group and their group mitigation buff is higher than mine thats the primary buff that overrided mine as no healer group mit buffs stack at all...tanks, scouts and mages are all getting a personal mit buff (not sure yet what the values are of each as I have not had a chance to get on test), healers are not getting any sort of personal mit buff to make up the diffrence they are getting nerfed out of.  This is a concern because druids to clerics will be taking higher incoming damage now and with druids being the lowest on the totem pole of physical mitigation of the healers they will be going into the red or dead at a much faster rate than the other healer classes.</p>

[Hirofortis]

<p><cite>Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hirofortis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hey everyone, just popping in to give you an update on changes coming to the Test Server shortly.</p><p>For all you magefolk, your Magi's Shielding will grant a decent amount of physical mitigation to go along with its other bonuses.</p><p>All priest physical mitigation buffs - Armor of Seasons, Armor of Nature, Sacred Armor, Runic Armor, Holy Armor and Shroud of Armor now grant over 50% more mitigation than before.</p><p>Scout self buffs will also grant some physical mitigation, like Magi's Shielding. The enhanced abilities are Savage Ruin, Bladeweaver, Daelis' Dance of Blades, Death's Door, Villainy and Hunter's Instinct. Street Smarts has had the amount of mitigation granted increased.</p><p>All fighter defensive stances - Armored, Unflinching Will, Crouching Tiger, Bodyguard, Knight's Stance and Lucan's Pact all grant 5% Physical Damage Reduction.</p><p>We look forward to your feedback while you test these changes!</p></blockquote><p>Thank you for addressing our concerns.  If you could now fix test so we could get on it would be appreciated.  Locks up every time try to get in.  </p><p>For the rest, it appears that they are trying to work out a way to group more.  Yes, we are loosing 1600 mit.  <strong>But they are adding it back in the healer buffs and our individual buffs.</strong>  This if done right will have the net effect of keeping the same amount of mit while encourgaing grouping.  It will make soloing a little harder, but healers might actually be needed for the extra mit buffs.  </p><p>Again, please fix test so we can all get on and test the changes.</p></blockquote><p>Hah, I'm not the only one who saw this change as a way to make people have to group.</p><p>It's also striking very close to home of the failed attempt at the fighter revamp.</p></blockquote><p>except this does nothing for the healers who are getting hossed. druids especially will be drasticaly hindered by this change.</p></blockquote><p>Not quite but let me break this down easy right now on top of everyones normal physical mit from gear we get an additional 1656 physical mitigation via the character developement tab.  With this change that is gone.</p><p>Now as for healers...I'll use my templar as an example, holy armor currently is 1240 physical mit to group with the proposed 50% increase to that it now becomes 1860 physical mit.  My mitigation buff for the group has increased by 620 but my personal mitigation has dropped by 1036.  If a second healer is in group and their group mitigation buff is higher than mine thats the primary buff that overrided mine as no healer group mit buffs stack at all...tanks, scouts and mages are all getting a personal mit buff (not sure yet what the values are of each as I have not had a chance to get on test), healers are not getting any sort of personal mit buff to make up the diffrence they are getting nerfed out of.  This is a concern because druids to clerics will be taking higher incoming damage now and with druids being the lowest on the totem pole of physical mitigation of the healers they will be going into the red or dead at a much faster rate than the other healer classes.</p></blockquote><p>You make a good point on druids.  You however said that the two healers mit buffs do not stack. So you are saying that a druid and a templars mit buffs do not stack? have you tested this?  I understand if they are two of the same class/archtype, but not different classes.  With that being said, healers should get a small mit buff to compensate.</p>

[Kreton]

<p><cite>Hirofortis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><p>You make a good point on druids.  You however said that the two healers mit buffs do not stack. So you are saying that a druid and a templars mit buffs do not stack? have you tested this?  I understand if they are two of the same class/archtype, but not different classes.  With that being said, healers should get a small mit buff to compensate.</p></blockquote><p>The mit portion of the healer buffs dont stack, regardless which archtype they are.  In fact, there use to be a bug where the defiler mit would always override any other priests, even if it was a lower amount.</p>

[Daalilama]

<p><cite>Kreton wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hirofortis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><p>You make a good point on druids.  You however said that the two healers mit buffs do not stack. So you are saying that a druid and a templars mit buffs do not stack? have you tested this?  I understand if they are two of the same class/archtype, but not different classes.  With that being said, healers should get a small mit buff to compensate.</p></blockquote><p>The mit portion of the healer buffs dont stack, regardless which archtype they are.  In fact, there use to be a bug where the defiler mit would always override any other priests, even if it was a lower amount.</p></blockquote><p>I really do hope this physical mit for priests is just a simple oversight however if not its going to make my job harder to the 10th power if not impossible.</p>

[Tigerr]

Classic SoE, classic... What was the point of all this?.. seriously, knowing you guys, you probably took weeks to implement this....You really need to stop thinking of these "balance" fixes cause really, all you guys are doing is screwing up class balance even further. This pathetic attempt at getting us to "group" is really insane. You guys completely hosed healers and certain classes. I don't know if this is an attempt to make us feel that the Dev team actually knows what they are doing but, it is a complete fail. Why should we stress about who we should be grouped with to make up for the mitigation loss that YOU guys tossed out the window for NO reason. Instead of fixing some HORRID classes, giving them boosts and what not, you guys take out mitigation and give it "back" to us by putting it on our buffs?... It really is sad that the players know more about the game than the devs, seriously. I can guarantee if you actually listen to your community instead of fulfilling the "ITZ SO HARDDD" requests, this would be an amazing game. As a healer, I am losing out on nearly 1k mitigation... You took out a normally working stat ( could have increased certain classes individually without nerfing the entire playerbase) and popped it back in our buffs. The funniest thing is, it does NOT make up for individual class balance unless you can guarantee certain classes group with others. I mean really, was this needed?... completely POINTLESS, just like the completely POINTLESS fighter stance for the dpsing whiners. Please...stop....messing....with....mechanics....y ou...do...not...understand. So basically as priests, we are craped out on mitigation. This really doesn't make you guys look smart or anything, how your taking numbers and flipping them around... I'm really curious though, how many man hours did this change take?... and how many more will it take to fix WHAT YOU HAVE BROKE?. So, instead of using the time to iron out a LOTTTTTTTT of bugs that are STILL in the game, and trying to make further improvements, you get to fix something you guys broke?... and for no reason and no explanation other than some classes had more benefit than others. Once again, stop messing with mechanics you do not understand. Amazing how the players know and understand how the game works while you guys run around on level 20 toons testing Darklight Woods and comparing mitigation on level 40 toons that were probably beta buffed. Stop, please...

[Daalilama]

<p><cite>Tigerr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Classic SoE, classic... What was the point of all this?.. seriously, knowing you guys, you probably took weeks to implement this....You really need to stop thinking of these "balance" fixes cause really, all you guys are doing is screwing up class balance even further. This pathetic attempt at getting us to "group" is really insane. You guys completely hosed healers and certain classes. I don't know if this is an attempt to make us feel that the Dev team actually knows what they are doing but, it is a complete fail. Why should we stress about who we should be grouped with to make up for the mitigation loss that YOU guys tossed out the window for NO reason. Instead of fixing some HORRID classes, giving them boosts and what not, you guys take out mitigation and give it "back" to us by putting it on our buffs?... It really is sad that the players know more about the game than the devs, seriously. I can guarantee if you actually listen to your community instead of fulfilling the "ITZ SO HARDDD" requests, this would be an amazing game. As a healer, I am losing out on nearly 1k mitigation... You took out a normally working stat ( could have increased certain classes individually without nerfing the entire playerbase) and popped it back in our buffs. The funniest thing is, it does NOT make up for individual class balance unless you can guarantee certain classes group with others. I mean really, was this needed?... completely POINTLESS, just like the completely POINTLESS fighter stance for the dpsing whiners. Please...stop....messing....with....mechanics....y ou...do...not...understand. So basically as priests, we are craped out on mitigation. This really doesn't make you guys look smart or anything, how your taking numbers and flipping them around... I'm really curious though, how many man hours did this change take?... and how many more will it take to fix WHAT YOU HAVE BROKE?. So, instead of using the time to iron out a LOTTTTTTTT of bugs that are STILL in the game, and trying to make further improvements, you get to fix something you guys broke?... and for no reason and no explanation other than some classes had more benefit than others. <strong>Once again, stop messing with mechanics you do not understand. Amazing how the players know and understand how the game works while you guys run around on level 20 toons testing Darklight Woods and comparing mitigation on level 40 toons that were probably beta buffed. Stop, please... </strong></blockquote><p>I just lmfao on that one statement....after I looked at the proposed "pvp" changes for healers shook my head then looked at the other proposed changes for other classes shook my head again then read your statement just now and said yeap that explains how they came up with their ideas...truely comical.</p><p>I guess the mit nerf was the long awaited class review Xelgad stated would occur "after GU63 but before GU64". </p>

[Jrel]

<p><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hey everyone, just popping in to give you an update on changes coming to the Test Server shortly.</p><p>For all you magefolk, your Magi's Shielding will grant a decent amount of physical mitigation to go along with its other bonuses.</p><p>All priest physical mitigation buffs - Armor of Seasons, Armor of Nature, Sacred Armor, Runic Armor, Holy Armor and Shroud of Armor now grant over 50% more mitigation than before.</p><p>Scout self buffs will also grant some physical mitigation, like Magi's Shielding. The enhanced abilities are Savage Ruin, Bladeweaver, Daelis' Dance of Blades, Death's Door, Villainy and Hunter's Instinct. Street Smarts has had the amount of mitigation granted increased.</p><p>All fighter defensive stances - Armored, Unflinching Will, Crouching Tiger, Bodyguard, Knight's Stance and Lucan's Pact all grant 5% Physical Damage Reduction.</p><p>We look forward to your feedback while you test these changes!</p></blockquote><p>Instead of making all these changes which will require more fine-tuning and re-balancing, just do one thing, and put the physical mit back into our character dev tab.  Pretty Please. </p>

[Outkast1980]

<p><cite>Tigerr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Classic SoE, classic... What was the point of all this?.. seriously, knowing you guys, you probably took weeks to implement this....You really need to stop thinking of these "balance" fixes cause really, all you guys are doing is screwing up class balance even further. This pathetic attempt at getting us to "group" is really insane. You guys completely hosed healers and certain classes. I don't know if this is an attempt to make us feel that the Dev team actually knows what they are doing but, it is a complete fail. Why should we stress about who we should be grouped with to make up for the mitigation loss that YOU guys tossed out the window for NO reason. Instead of fixing some HORRID classes, giving them boosts and what not, you guys take out mitigation and give it "back" to us by putting it on our buffs?... It really is sad that the players know more about the game than the devs, seriously. I can guarantee if you actually listen to your community instead of fulfilling the "ITZ SO HARDDD" requests, this would be an amazing game. As a healer, I am losing out on nearly 1k mitigation... You took out a normally working stat ( could have increased certain classes individually without nerfing the entire playerbase) and popped it back in our buffs. The funniest thing is, it does NOT make up for individual class balance unless you can guarantee certain classes group with others. I mean really, was this needed?... completely POINTLESS, just like the completely POINTLESS fighter stance for the dpsing whiners. Please...stop....messing....with....mechanics....y ou...do...not...understand. So basically as priests, we are craped out on mitigation. This really doesn't make you guys look smart or anything, how your taking numbers and flipping them around... I'm really curious though, how many man hours did this change take?... and how many more will it take to fix WHAT YOU HAVE BROKE?. So, instead of using the time to iron out a LOTTTTTTTT of bugs that are STILL in the game, and trying to make further improvements, you get to fix something you guys broke?... and for no reason and no explanation other than some classes had more benefit than others. Once again, stop messing with mechanics you do not understand. Amazing how the players know and understand how the game works while you guys run around on level 20 toons testing Darklight Woods and comparing mitigation on level 40 toons that were probably beta buffed. Stop, please...</blockquote><p> LOL  +1 </p><p>Quoted for truth and accuracy.</p>

[Beko]

<p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Piropiro@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Again, i say just put the phys mit back, and give the fighters a 5% dmg reduction in defensive stance, no reason they should get an extra 5% reduction while in offensive/recklessness when it would really be just a free 5% dmg reduction to them and soe not screwing over everybody else.</p></blockquote><p>Hold the Line (Guardian)</p><p>Aggressive Defence (Berserker)</p><p>Innoruuk's Caress (Shadowknight)</p><p>Blessing of the Paladin (Paladin)</p><p>Bob and Weave (Bruiser)</p><p>Inner Calm (Monk) </p><p>Add 5% Physical Damage Reduction to those Buffs, not the Defensive Stances.</p></blockquote><p>why, justify why you should get physical dmg reductions in your offensive stances, when you are the most well off in phys mit in game. even with the most lenient idea of giving you a free 5% dmg reduction on ur defensive stance AND keeping the phys mit you already have, you want more. where as every other class is just trying to not get screwed over.</p><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;">[Edited for non-constructive, off-topic commentary.]</span></p></blockquote><p>Damage Reduction/Mitigation are completely different things.</p>

[Jrral]

<p><cite>Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Now as for healers...I'll use my templar as an example, holy armor currently is 1240 physical mit to group with the proposed 50% increase to that it now becomes 1860 physical mit.  My mitigation buff for the group has increased by 620 but my personal mitigation has dropped by 1036.</p></blockquote><p>What I'd be interested in is, like Pheep asked, the changes to the "percent of damage mitigated vs. an even-con mob". Mitigation runs on a diminishing-returns curve, so the loss of 1600 mit is going to mean less the higher your mitigation is. I've seen everyone throwing around raw mitigation numbers, I'd be interested to see what those actually translate to in terms of real mitigation loss. Is losing 1600 mit taking you from mitigating 60% to mitigating 40%, or is it taking you from mitigating 60% to 58%?</p><p>My guess: mages are going to get hammered by this, they're so low on the curve that if their buffs don't add back all of that lost mit they're going to be getting one-shotted by AOEs no matter what the healers do. That costs DPS, it burns up group heals and wards, and rezzing the mages distracts healers from keeping the rest of the group/raid alive. Melee scouts are next, they're further up the DR curve but they've also got to be up there where the AOEs hit hardest. Fighters and plate healers, I get the feeling with their mitigation being so far up the DR curve that with the changes to the buffs they'd normally get they won't see much change or they may actually get a bit tougher (esp. in raids where all the good ones I know already run in defensive stance to help out the healers). I'm deathly afraid this is going to take us back to the bad old days before diminishing returns, where to hit the tank for 10K damage the mobs had to hit hard enough to smack the mages for 50K and up.</p>

[spudsmckenzie2]

<p>Pass the update so we can find out what's inside it!</p>

[Daalilama]

<p><cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Now as for healers...I'll use my templar as an example, holy armor currently is 1240 physical mit to group with the proposed 50% increase to that it now becomes 1860 physical mit.  My mitigation buff for the group has increased by 620 but my personal mitigation has dropped by 1036.</p></blockquote><p>What I'd be interested in is, like Pheep asked, the changes to the "percent of damage mitigated vs. an even-con mob". Mitigation runs on a diminishing-returns curve, so the loss of 1600 mit is going to mean less the higher your mitigation is. I've seen everyone throwing around raw mitigation numbers, I'd be interested to see what those actually translate to in terms of real mitigation loss. Is losing 1600 mit taking you from mitigating 60% to mitigating 40%, or is it taking you from mitigating 60% to 58%?</p><p>My guess: mages are going to get hammered by this, they're so low on the curve that if their buffs don't add back all of that lost mit they're going to be getting one-shotted by AOEs no matter what the healers do. That costs DPS, it burns up group heals and wards, and rezzing the mages distracts healers from keeping the rest of the group/raid alive. Melee scouts are next, they're further up the DR curve but they've also got to be up there where the AOEs hit hardest. Fighters and plate healers, I get the feeling with their mitigation being so far up the DR curve that with the changes to the buffs they'd normally get they won't see much change or they may actually get a bit tougher (esp. in raids where all the good ones I know already run in defensive stance to help out the healers). I'm deathly afraid this is going to take us back to the bad old days before diminishing returns, where to hit the tank for 10K damage the mobs had to hit hard enough to smack the mages for 50K and up.</p></blockquote><p>Not in game but at round 8k mitigation - the 1k+ mit loss is nuking about 1/8 of my  total mit not sure if they intend to look at changing how much each class gets via physical mit.  Also remember physical mitigation from skyshrine gear is lower than DoV1 raid so we are already less mit than before.  I'll try and post my mit % later.</p><p>K my mit % is 65%.</p>

[Jrral]

<p><cite>Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Not in game but at round 8k mitigation - the 1k+ mit loss is nuking about 1/8 of my  total mit not sure if they intend to look at changing how much each class gets via physical mit.  Also remember physical mitigation from skyshrine gear is lower than DoV1 raid so we are already less mit than before.  I'll try and post my mit % later.</p><p>K my mit % is 65%.</p></blockquote><p>What's the change in % though? I'm waiting for my characters to be copied to check my numbers. I know that for my wizard 1000 mitigation loss drops the % a lot more than the same 1000 for my berserker does. That's how diminishing returns is supposed to work: the further along the curve you are, the less return you get for 1 more point. So what I'm interested in is less how the mitigation number changes (which doesn't directly tell me how much more or less I'm going to get hurt by the mobs) and more how the % mitigated number changes (which directly reflects how incoming damage will change).</p><p>Eg., actual numbers from my berserker and wizard (and note, the wizard has mostly raid gear, the 'zerker's mostly in WL quested armor):</p><p>Berserker:</p><p>Test: 6093 (59.6%) vs. 4400 (51.8%): losing 1600 mit means about 8% less damage mitigated, or 15% more damage.</p><p>Live: 7713 (64.7%) vs. 6020 (59.0%): losing 1700 mit means about 6% less damage mitigated, or 10% more damage.</p><p>Wizard:</p><p>Live: 3082 (42.7%) vs. 1620 (27.9%): losing 1400 mit means about 15% less damage mitigated, or 53% more damage.</p><p>You can see the difference in the curves. Even losing a bit less mitigation, it hurts my wizard a lot more because she's so low on the curve. And you can see the difference in the berserker clearly: on Live, where with the physical resists he's got more mitigation, even though he's losing a bit more mitigation it costs him less in % mitigated because the curve's starting to flatten out. The relative numbers paint an even starker picture: my 'zerker takes 10% more damage, while a smaller change to my wizard means she gets smacked more than twice as hard.</p><p>NB: the above is <em>why</em> diminishing returns went in in the first place. My 'zerker can shrug off the changes, the healer's going to have to work a bit harder but that's about it. My wizard, OTOH, will <em>have</em> to replace that mitigation or she's burnt toast with ketchup.</p>

[Daalilama]

<p><cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Not in game but at round 8k mitigation - the 1k+ mit loss is nuking about 1/8 of my  total mit not sure if they intend to look at changing how much each class gets via physical mit.  Also remember physical mitigation from skyshrine gear is lower than DoV1 raid so we are already less mit than before.  I'll try and post my mit % later.</p><p>K my mit % is 65%.</p></blockquote><p>What's the change in % though? I'm waiting for my characters to be copied to check my numbers. I know that for my wizard 1000 mitigation loss drops the % a lot more than the same 1000 for my berserker does. That's how diminishing returns is supposed to work: the further along the curve you are, the less return you get for 1 more point. So what I'm interested in is less how the mitigation number changes (which doesn't directly tell me how much more or less I'm going to get hurt by the mobs) and more how the % mitigated number changes (which directly reflects how incoming damage will change).</p><p>Eg., actual numbers from my berserker and wizard (and note, the wizard has mostly raid gear, the 'zerker's mostly in WL quested armor):</p><p>Berserker:</p><p>Test: 6093 (59.6%) vs. 4400 (51.8%): losing 1600 mit means about 8% less damage mitigated, or 15% more damage.</p><p>Live: 7713 (64.7%) vs. 6020 (59.0%): losing 1700 mit means about 6% less damage mitigated, or 10% more damage.</p><p>Wizard:</p><p>Live: 3082 (42.7%) vs. 1620 (27.9%): losing 1400 mit means about 15% less damage mitigated, or 53% more damage.</p><p>You can see the difference in the curves. Even losing a bit less mitigation, it hurts my wizard a lot more because she's so low on the curve. And you can see the difference in the berserker clearly: on Live, where with the physical resists he's got more mitigation, even though he's losing a bit more mitigation it costs him less in % mitigated because the curve's starting to flatten out. The relative numbers paint an even starker picture: my 'zerker takes 10% more damage, while a smaller change to my wizard means she gets smacked more than twice as hard.</p><p>NB: the above is <em>why</em> diminishing returns went in in the first place. My 'zerker can shrug off the changes, the healer's going to have to work a bit harder but that's about it. My wizard, OTOH, will <em>have</em> to replace that mitigation or she's burnt toast with ketchup.</p></blockquote><p>going from 65% to about 52% roughly (damm I hate math at 4am)</p>

[kalaria]

<p><cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Not in game but at round 8k mitigation - the 1k+ mit loss is nuking about 1/8 of my  total mit not sure if they intend to look at changing how much each class gets via physical mit.  Also remember physical mitigation from skyshrine gear is lower than DoV1 raid so we are already less mit than before.  I'll try and post my mit % later.</p><p>K my mit % is 65%.</p></blockquote><p>What's the change in % though? I'm waiting for my characters to be copied to check my numbers. I know that for my wizard 1000 mitigation loss drops the % a lot more than the same 1000 for my berserker does. That's how diminishing returns is supposed to work: the further along the curve you are, the less return you get for 1 more point. So what I'm interested in is less how the mitigation number changes (which doesn't directly tell me how much more or less I'm going to get hurt by the mobs) and more how the % mitigated number changes (which directly reflects how incoming damage will change).</p><p>Eg., actual numbers from my berserker and wizard (and note, the wizard has mostly raid gear, the 'zerker's mostly in WL quested armor):</p><p>Berserker:</p><p>Test: 6093 (59.6%) vs. 4400 (51.8%): losing 1600 mit means about 8% less damage mitigated, or 15% more damage.</p><p>Live: 7713 (64.7%) vs. 6020 (59.0%): losing 1700 mit means about 6% less damage mitigated, or 10% more damage.</p><p>Wizard:</p><p>Live: 3082 (42.7%) vs. 1620 (27.9%): losing 1400 mit means about 15% less damage mitigated, or 53% more damage.</p><p>You can see the difference in the curves. Even losing a bit less mitigation, it hurts my wizard a lot more because she's so low on the curve. And you can see the difference in the berserker clearly: on Live, where with the physical resists he's got more mitigation, even though he's losing a bit more mitigation it costs him less in % mitigated because the curve's starting to flatten out. The relative numbers paint an even starker picture: my 'zerker takes 10% more damage, while a smaller change to my wizard means she gets smacked more than twice as hard.</p><p>NB: the above is <em>why</em> diminishing returns went in in the first place. My 'zerker can shrug off the changes, the healer's going to have to work a bit harder but that's about it. My wizard, OTOH, will <em>have</em> to replace that mitigation or she's burnt toast with ketchup.</p></blockquote><p>And do not forget... all of those percentage values are vs a lvl 92 mob... the mitigation curve significantly changes against higher con mobs.  So the nerf is magnified even more in real game content than the values you have shown.</p>

[Lempo]

<p>Still no reasonable sounding explanation as to why this was needed to begin with. The 'forced grouping' concept is a reasonable assumption, except for one problem it isn't needed, Shyshrine has plenty of PUGs/PURs, and grouping isn't done at lower levels more because of the EXP penalty than anything.</p><p>This is just another effort that clearly was not thoroughly thought out, the patchwork effort that they have tossed at it with magi's shielding and priest buffs 'replacing' part of the lost mit is at this point nothing more than vapor and with this being a holiday week the chances of any patch is slim. So in all likelihood the 10th is the first date that we should really expect to see this on test, which is a moot point anyway as there is no way go get an effective test done on the impact raids will suffer from this on test in the first place. I thought this update was supposed to go out in July, maybe I am wrong, not like the May or June updates are completed at this point, nor any word, or updates on what is delayed and why or what was tossed into the scrap heap to be left in the current state that it is in for the playerbase to suffer for who knows how long.</p>

[Boli32]

<p>I'll wager it had more to do with with adjusting future fighter mitigation than anything else.</p>

[Beko]

<p>Hey, Guardians give entire raid 1000+ Mitigation.</p>

[Mermut]

<p>'Forced grouping' seems a weak reason for taking so much mitigation from most classes (especially healers), when the place these changes will be felt the most are raids. 'But this class gives x mitigation to the group', etc don't cut it in raids.. because those things are already being taken advantage of.  I find it bizarre that healers are the hardest hit by this change.. all other classes get a mit (or damage reduction) boost on a personal buff or stance.. then they get a 'boost' from the healer in their group. This is likely to bring them 'close' to where they were before this nerf. Healers, on the other hand are getting about 500 from the '50% boost to group mitigation buff'. (example armor of the seasons vii at master gives 1027 physical mit base). That is 1.1k less mitigation for wardens then they currently have on live.</p><p>For my warden in EM Skyshrine raid gear, that's 4% less damage blocked against level 92 mobs. Even if it was only 4%, that would be painful in raids, given that raid mobs are significiantly higher level, that's going to be a huge hit to my warden's survivability in raids. And, in her raid build, she's already specced fully defensive/heal with all the mitigation boosts and damage reductions on heals and buffs.. so there is no way to recover that lost mitigation/survivability with a respec.</p>

[kalaria]

<p>Priests need to have 1000 mitigation added to one of their self buffs to make up for this nerf.</p><p>The 50% increase to their group buff that Xelgad said was going it doesn't come close to replacing what has been removed!</p><p>500 << 1600</p>

[thorin1]

<p>Herse's a fix to all these changes.  How about making them an AA ability that they can choose.  If you want "Reckless Ability/Stance", put points into to get it.  In fact, put all the proposed changes as an aa ability option and let the players decide if they want it or not.  Wont this fix all the issues?</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Boli@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'll wager it had more to do with with adjusting future fighter mitigation than anything else.</p></blockquote><p>Yeap.  If you look at where everything was going, effectively all fighters were already reaching so far into diminishing returns there was little difference between effecitve damage mitigation.</p><p>You either had to remove this from the equation, or you had to adjust the curve.  My guess is changing the curve was significantly harder.</p>

[Hennyo]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Boli@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'll wager it had more to do with with adjusting future fighter mitigation than anything else.</p></blockquote><p>Yeap.  If you look at where everything was going, effectively all fighters were already reaching so far into diminishing returns there was little difference between effecitve damage mitigation.</p><p>You either had to remove this from the equation, or you had to adjust the curve.  My guess is changing the curve was significantly harder.</p></blockquote><p>Well, I would happen to agree, that the change was done because of fighter mitigation curve. While it may have been easier to just remove some mitigation from everyone to patch up the issue, I really think in the modern game, redoing the mitigation curve would have been the right answer. With modern mechanics of multi attack, and the on hit or miss damage procs all on mobs, allowing the mitigation curve to go back up to 80 percent like it was in the past would have been the more correct answer.</p><p>I would also like to note, that I also believe that the mitigation change was also partly because of the pvp update as well, in an attempt to make tanks more tanky compared to other classes.</p>

[Daalilama]

<p><cite>Hennyo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Boli@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'll wager it had more to do with with adjusting future fighter mitigation than anything else.</p></blockquote><p>Yeap.  If you look at where everything was going, effectively all fighters were already reaching so far into diminishing returns there was little difference between effecitve damage mitigation.</p><p>You either had to remove this from the equation, or you had to adjust the curve.  My guess is changing the curve was significantly harder.</p></blockquote><p>Well, I would happen to agree, that the change was done because of fighter mitigation curve. While it may have been easier to just remove some mitigation from everyone to patch up the issue, I really think in the modern game, redoing the mitigation curve would have been the right answer. With modern mechanics of multi attack, and the on hit or miss damage procs all on mobs, allowing the mitigation curve to go back up to 80 percent like it was in the past would have been the more correct answer.</p><p><strong>I would also like to note, that I also believe that the mitigation change was also partly because of the pvp update as well, in an attempt to make tanks more tanky compared to other classes.</strong></p></blockquote><p>God I hope not making "tanks more tanky" as you put it nerfs physical mitigation across the board making healers increasingly at risk</p>

[kalaria]

<p><span style="font-size: x-small;">From the Patch notes:</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;">Armor of Seasons, Armor of Nature, Sacred Armor, Holy Armor, Runic Armor and Shroud of Armor now grant over 50% more mitigation, going from 1079 at Master on the level 84 versions to 1654.</span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: x-small;">Mages and Scouts were given self mit buffs so that their self buff, combined with the priest mit increase will keep their mit at the same place prior to the nerf.</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: x-small;">HOWEVER.Priests are STILL 1000 Mitigation SHORT!FIX THIS NOW.</span></p></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"> </span></p>

[kdmorse]

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> </p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">ABILITIES / ALTERNATE ADVANCEMENT</span></span></p><ul><li><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Magi's Shielding now grants 1035 physical mitigation at level 92.</span></span></li><li><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Armor of Seasons, Armor of Nature, Sacred Armor, Holy Armor, Runic Armor and Shroud of Armor now grant over 50% more mitigation, going from 1079 at Master on the level 84 versions to 1654.</span></span></li><li><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Savage Ruin, Bladeweaver, Villainy and Hunter's Instinct now grant 997 physical mitigation on the level 89 version at Master.</span></span></li><li><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Street Smarts grants an additional 997 physical mitigation on the level 89 version at Master.</span></span></li><li><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Unflinching Will, Crouching Tiger, Bodyguard, Armored, Knight's Stance and Lucan's Pact all grant 5% physical damage reduction to the caster. This does not scale with ability quality or level.</span></span></li><li><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Daelis' Dance of Blades and Death's Door grant 997 mitigation from the 89 version at Master quality.</span></span></li></ul><p>I'll wait until it hits test tomorrow to validate, just in case there's some hidden bonus these patch notes don't convery that brings the end result up to par.  But on first glance mages and priests are going to be falling quite short...  (I have no scouts or fighters, so I have no feel for those artchtypes)</p>

[kalaria]

<p><cite>Ynnek@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> </p><p>I'll wait until it hits test tomorrow to validate, just in case there's some hidden bonus these patch notes don't convery that brings the end result up to par.  But on first glance mages and priests are going to be falling quite short...  (I have no scouts or fighters, so I have no feel for those artchtypes)</p></blockquote><p>Priests are the only ones that will be falling short.Addition to mage self buff plus the priest group buff increase equals what was lost.Priests get nothing added to their self buffs so are still 1k short.</p>

[kdmorse]

<p><cite>kalaria wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Priests are the only ones that will be falling short.Addition to mage self buff plus the priest group buff increase equals what was lost.Priests get nothing added to their self buffs so are still 1k short.</p></blockquote><p>Yah, priests are getting hit the hardest, can't argue there.  </p><p>Though mages that are soloing, moloing, or in a nonstandard group come up 600 short of what they would have had before the change.   Maybe that's just the new way of things.</p><p>That's part of why their new scheme for balancing things is so wacky.  By spreading mit across solo bufs here, and group bufs there, it's completely impossible to match pre-nerf values in all situations.</p>

[Silzin]

Have you thought that the reduction of Mit for Healers are by design?

[Mermut]

<p><cite>Silzin@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Have you thought that the reduction of Mit for Healers are by design?</blockquote><p>Because having healers die more often is good why?</p>

[Outkast1980]

<p><cite>kalaria wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ynnek@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> </p><p>I'll wait until it hits test tomorrow to validate, just in case there's some hidden bonus these patch notes don't convery that brings the end result up to par.  But on first glance mages and priests are going to be falling quite short...  (I have no scouts or fighters, so I have no feel for those artchtypes)</p></blockquote><p>Priests are the only ones that will be falling short.Addition to mage self buff plus the priest group buff increase equals what was lost.Priests get nothing added to their self buffs so are still 1k short.</p></blockquote><p>Your logic is already flawed.</p><p>Your saying a mage is back to what was lost with a priest in a group. Untrue, because the numbers that are being tested are mit on their own on live then on test.  You can't say it's higher once they group with someone. Well Duh, but that's the case in almost all situations. No this is not just being felt by priests. just wrong. </p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>Silzin@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Have you thought that the reduction of Mit for Healers are by design?</blockquote><p>Well it doesn't seem like this was a well thought out process to start with.</p><p>It had to be pointed out to them that the mit loss was not a good thing, thus the rapid backtracking and adding back it into other places. Unwilling to do a complete mea culpa, a quick fix was thrown at it. You WILL group like this and you will like it, otherwise you can accept the nerf to your class is the message.</p><p>I did a trial respec tonight on that tab removed all my physical mit and the Enraged War Boar was not a pretty sight 5 deaths of first pull 3 on first set of adds. I laughed, shaking my head in disbelief that this process got as far as it did put the mit back and the next pull was fine. This is gonna be whacky week, I'll probably repec that sheet again and for the first pull on Berik try only using 4 of them to be as close as I can to what is going to be 'given' to me in Magi's Shielding (<em>given with </em>as if I am not supposed to know that I was still nerfed) This is not going to have a big impact on the solo and EM heroic zones in SS as the most of the mobs hit with water balloons and puffs of cotton candy, but the raid zones (PoW and HM drunder) are going to be drastically affected by this. Perhaps the gear revamp in there will add substantial amounts of physical mit. I guess it is possible there is a method to this madness.</p>

[Daalilama]

<p><cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Silzin@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Have you thought that the reduction of Mit for Healers are by design?</blockquote><p>Well it doesn't seem like this was a well thought out process to start with.</p><p>It had to be pointed out to them that the mit loss was not a good thing, thus the rapid backtracking and adding back it into other places. Unwilling to do a complete mea culpa, a quick fix was thrown at it. You WILL group like this and you will like it, otherwise you can accept the nerf to your class is the message.</p><p><strong>I did a trial respec tonight on that tab removed all my physical mit and the Enraged War Boar was not a pretty sight 5 deaths of first pull 3 on first set of adds.</strong> I laughed, shaking my head in disbelief that this process got as far as it did put the mit back and the next pull was fine. This is gonna be whacky week, I'll probably repec that sheet again and for the first pull on Berik try only using 4 of them to be as close as I can to what is going to be 'given' to me in Magi's Shielding (<em>given with </em>as if I am not supposed to know that I was still nerfed) This is not going to have a big impact on the solo and EM heroic zones in SS as the most of the mobs hit with water balloons and puffs of cotton candy, but the raid zones (PoW and HM drunder) are going to be drastically affected by this. Perhaps the gear revamp in there will add substantial amounts of physical mit. I guess it is possible there is a method to this madness.</p></blockquote><p>Sad as it is what happened here is what I feared would happen...</p>

[Silzin]

<p><cite>Ynnek@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> </p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">ABILITIES / ALTERNATE ADVANCEMENT</span></span></p><ul><li><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Magi's Shielding now grants 1035 physical mitigation at level 92.</span></span></li><li><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Armor of Seasons, Armor of Nature, Sacred Armor, Holy Armor, Runic Armor and Shroud of Armor now grant over 50% more mitigation, going from 1079 at Master on the level 84 versions to 1654.</span></span></li><li><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Savage Ruin, Bladeweaver, Villainy and Hunter's Instinct now grant 997 physical mitigation on the level 89 version at Master.</span></span></li><li><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Street Smarts grants an additional 997 physical mitigation on the level 89 version at Master.</span></span></li><li><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Unflinching Will, Crouching Tiger, Bodyguard, Armored, Knight's Stance and Lucan's Pact all grant 5% physical damage reduction to the caster. This does not scale with ability quality or level.</span></span></li><li><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Daelis' Dance of Blades and Death's Door grant 997 mitigation from the 89 version at Master quality.</span></span></li></ul><p>I'll wait until it hits test tomorrow to validate, just in case there's some hidden bonus these patch notes don't convery that brings the end result up to par.  But on first glance mages and priests are going to be falling quite short...  (I have no scouts or fighters, so I have no feel for those artchtypes)</p></blockquote><p>It apears that this has not gon to Test Copy yet (As of 7:30 est, the 7/3/2012) for at least the Monk, Inq, and Coercer buffs.  all 3 of them are at there prebuff mitigation amounts.</p>

[T'Pol]

<p>This is not a fix its an insult.</p><p>Mages gain 1035 mit when solo. ~600 mit still missing</p><p>Healers gain 575 mit when solo. ~1000 mit still missing</p><p>Scouts gain 997 mit when solo. ~650 mit still missing</p><p>What is this? Who came up with these numbers? Whoever it was is apparently unaware that there are also leather and chain healers. Where is that promised "class by class fix"?</p><p>Now lets have a look at a group setup with a healer.</p><p>Mages gain 1610 mit when grouped with a healer. Same mit as before the "July" patch.</p><p>Healers still only gain 575 mit. Shafted!</p><p>Scouts gain 1572 mit when grouped with a healer. Same mit as before the "July" patch.</p><p>You should either put the the remaining mit on the healers stances for example or allow every leather and chain healer to wear plate armor.</p>

[Boli32]

<p><cite>Lemon@Innovation wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is not a fix its an insult.</p><p>Mages gain 1035 mit when solo. ~600 mit still missing</p><p>Healers gain 575 mit when solo. ~1000 mit still missing</p><p>Scouts gain 997 mit when solo. ~650 mit still missing</p><p>What is this? Who came up with these numbers? Whoever it was is apparently unaware that there are also leather and chain healers. Where is that promised "class by class fix"?</p><p>Now lets have a look at a group setup with a healer.</p><p>Mages gain 1610 mit when grouped with a healer. Same mit as before the "July" patch.</p><p>Healers still only gain 575 mit. Shafted!</p><p>Scouts gain 1572 mit when grouped with a healer. Same mit as before the "July" patch.</p><p>You should either put the the remaining mit on the healers stances for example or allow every leather and chain healer to wear plate armor.</p></blockquote><p>Your numbers are a little off.</p><p>All priests can increase their Mit buff by 15% (Shadow Tree) - up to 1902 (from 1241 old number)Furys can actually increase it by 45% (bring it to 2,398 ) (from 1565 old number)</p><p>There may be a few other foci which increase this still further - unsure.</p><p>So mages and scouts are actually going to be better off (mit wise) if grouped with a healer. Unfortunally whist Wardens have a self mit buff to help take the edge of thigns furys will loose out the most; though no healer "wins".</p>

[T'Pol]

<p>Why are my numbers off?</p><p>I am only talking about what is going to change not about existing bonuses.</p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>Lemon@Innovation wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>You should either put the the remaining mit on the healers stances for example or allow every leather and chain healer to wear plate armor.</blockquote><p>No they should put the physical mit back in where it was, OR include that total amount for everyone in the focus packages. Doing that then doing whatever class by class fixes they need to do would leave the game in a working state in that department instead of breaking it and it dragging out for 6-12 months like the issue with Drunder itemization.</p><p>If they want to encourage grouping then they need to make the overland and dungeon content signifigantly harder, like it used to be and add some smaller amounts of physical mit to the buffs and stances they are tweaking if need be.</p><p>@ Silzin - Yes I just confirmed that the additional mit buffs are not on test now, so there is no way to do any testing on this so it doesn't appear that anyone got it.  I checked my Lock and my Troub. Maybe they will get it right later today.</p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"> Just noticed that the changes say they should go to test at 8 AM PST today.</span></strong></span></p><p>So maybe they will get there.</p>

[Tylia]

<p><cite>Boli@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Your numbers are a little off.</p><p>All priests can increase their Mit buff by 15% (Shadow Tree) - up to 1902 (from 1241 old number)Furys can actually increase it by 45% (bring it to 2,398 ) (from 1565 old number)</p><p>There may be a few other foci which increase this still further - unsure.</p><p>So mages and scouts are actually going to be better off (mit wise) if grouped with a healer. Unfortunally whist Wardens have a self mit buff to help take the edge of thigns furys will loose out the most; though no healer "wins".</p></blockquote><p>Even though I can increase the mit amount by AA choices (5 points in Enhance Armor of Nature in Fury tree for 30%, and 5 points in Protective Prayer in Shadows priest tree for 15%), I will still be short by 822.25.  Now granted, I have not taken Armor of Nature as a Grandmaster choice but unless the amount of a Grandmaster is figured on a percentage basis instead of a static amount, it is going to have to be changed as well.  Currently, it shows that it will increase the mit amount to 1613, which is less than the change to master will be.  (I honestly have no clue how the amount of increase is figured for a grandmaster.)</p><p>Now I can bring my numbers up to just above my current numbers by putting 3 points in to the Prestige choice Armored Vines, which adds a small mit increase to each of my heal over time spells.  It adds 465 to Hibernation, 490 to Autumn's Kiss, and 482 to Regrowth (which is a single target hot).  As long as I have those hots going, I can be a little above, but as soon as they expire, I will be short again.  /sigh</p><p>I guess I will have to wait and see what the change to the Grandmaster will be.</p>

[kalaria]

<p>Just give healers ~ 1k physical mit attached to one of their self buffs as well.Scouts got it.Mages got it.Healers NEED it.</p><p>Do that and its pretty much an even wash removing the physical mit option from character traits.Dont do that and you are nerfing healers HARD CORE with zero justified reason (as per usual).</p>

[Boli32]

<p>I never said it was a complete fix, but since the BASE value of these abilities is being changed any Foci or AA which changes them by a percentage value needs to be considered. Priests are still short; yes, but its slightly less than has been rpeviously stated; especially as I'll wager most priests worried about low mit/surivibility in raids will spec the increased mitigation.</p>

[Tylia]

<p><cite>Boli@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I never said it was a complete fix, but since the BASE value of these abilities is being changed any Foci or AA which changes them by a percentage value needs to be considered. Priests are still short; yes, but its slightly less than has been rpeviously stated; especially as I'll wager most priests worried about low mit/surivibility in raids will spec the increased mitigation.</p></blockquote><p>Oh no doubt.  I have been specced for the mit increases in the Fury and Shadows trees and have recently changed a Prestige choice to Armored Vines (to see what the increase would be).  The only thing I don't have is the Armor of Nature grandmaster choice.  I will most likely switch to that as well.  I feel like I'm having to jump through so many hoops just to try and get my physical mit back up to where it currently is.</p>

[kalaria]

<p><cite>Boli@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I never said it was a complete fix, but since the BASE value of these abilities is being changed any Foci or AA which changes them by a percentage value needs to be considered. Priests are still short; yes, but its slightly less than has been rpeviously stated; especially as I'll wager most priests worried about low mit/surivibility in raids will spec the increased mitigation.</p></blockquote><p>Why should priests be forced to reallocate AAs to try and lessen a nerf when no other Scout nor mage has too?  They got their fixes free of charge.More over.... the priest Shadows AA goes from granting ~150 more mit. to 225 more... OMG 75 more mit!</p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Silzin@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Have you thought that the reduction of Mit for Healers are by design?</blockquote><p><strong>I did a trial respec tonight on that tab removed all my physical mit and the Enraged War Boar was not a pretty sight 5 deaths of first pull 3 on first set of adds.</strong> </p></blockquote><p>Sad as it is what happened here is what I feared would happen...</p></blockquote><p>Just pulled the parses back up on this.</p><p>First pull with a wipe at 6:01 I had taken a total of 877,070 in damage. Kill pull with a time of 8 min flat after speccing the physical mit on the character tab total damage taken 342,521 no other changes.</p>

[Mermut]

<p><cite>Boli@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I never said it was a complete fix, but since the BASE value of these abilities is being changed any Foci or AA which changes them by a percentage value needs to be considered. Priests are still short; yes, but its slightly less than has been rpeviously stated; especially as I'll wager most priests worried about low mit/surivibility in raids will spec the increased mitigation.</p></blockquote><p>Most priests in raids are ALREADY specced for the increased mitigation. Which means they have no way to 'gain back' the mitigation lost with a respec. The 50% to group mitigation buff is on off the base value. Increasing the numbers via AA and potency doesn't increase the buff beyond ~ 500... which leaves priests short ~1.1 k mit, no matter which way you cut it.</p>

[Gealaen_Gaiamancer]

<p style="text-align: justify;">I can't remember if I previously chimed in on this one, or if I just thought about it so hard that it feels like I did.  Just to be safe:</p><p style="text-align: justify;"> </p><p style="text-align: justify;">Nerfing physical mitigation is evil, and if it goes live like that there will probably be torches, pitchforks, etc.  At least in the forum.  Because we'll all be too dead in the game.  (Hyperbole, yes, but this change stinks.)  Unless the goal is to make the game more challenging ... in which case I'll be a bit shocked.  Would appreciate more clarification on this issue from a developer-type please!</p>

[kalaria]

<p>So no comment at all from any red name?</p><p>It is a concious decision to only correct scouts/mages on their mitigations and toss healers under the bus?</p>

[Oink]

<p>Smells like they want these mitigations strippable in PVP, but no.. they wouldn't never effect PvE gameplay for that!</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Oink@Blackburrow wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Smells like they want these mitigations strippable in PVP, but no.. they wouldn't never effect PvE gameplay for that!</p></blockquote><p>And make healers to kill in PVP?  =)</p><p>I'm sure they wouldn't ever design buffs and aa's in PvE around a PvP issue...</p>

[Daalilama]

<p><cite>Boli@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I never said it was a complete fix, but since the BASE value of these abilities is being changed any Foci or AA which changes them by a percentage value needs to be considered. Priests are still short; yes, but its slightly less than has been rpeviously stated; especially as I'll wager most priests worried about low mit/surivibility in raids will spec the increased mitigation.</p></blockquote><p>Boli im losing 1036 mitigation off my templar...thats with aa/master spells/etc.  Basically im going from 65% to in the neighborhood of 52/53%...TBH I should be used to nerfs or being ignored on temp issues after all this time.</p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Boli im losing 1036 mitigation off my templar...thats with aa/master spells/etc.  Basically im going from 65% to in the neighborhood of 52/53%...TBH I should be used to nerfs or being ignored on temp issues after all this time.</blockquote><p>Just do like I did respec your character traits all except for the mitigation and add it in a piece at a time or ~1000 worth then you can see what it is gonna be like.</p>

[Boli32]

<p>It is amazing how many people got the wrong end of the stick; I never said once that the physcial mit NERF for priests will be made up by other buffs... just that incresing the base value of the group buff meant for AA and Foci which increases this by a percentage will actually increase as well - so the numbers quoted were "out of whak".</p><p>So you are being nerfed by 1000 mit instead of 1100 mit - both not good; but I've found it is best to be as accurate as possible when reporting bugs especially if you are quoting figures - which in this case were incomplete.</p><p>Perhaps the biggest irony with the entire thing is scouts and mages actually end up better off when grouped with a healer than previously.</p>

[Tigerr]

I still cant believe they didn't add the Mitigation back in... It is pretty obvious that the devs have NO idea what is going on and how the game works...I really don't get it, did you guys need more overtime or something?... Do you think people don't notice how IDIOTIC these changes are?... Devs, you aren't balancing ANYTHING... Removing a stat and popping it back in on class buffs is something a 10 year old would do. There is no "fix"... STOP MESSING WITH STUFF THAT ISINT BROKEN... Cause guess what, instead of balancing, you guys are COMPLETELY screwing up balance. I'd be scared to tell you guys that you need to adjust ALOT of the encounters in the game to make up for the mit loss, we all know that you'd make level 10 toons, get hit 5 times on each class and check it all off as "WORKING AS INTENDEDZZZZZ GUYZZ< NO WORRIEZZZ" Seriously, either give us the mit we lost BACK or put it back on our buffs. Like I mentioned earlier, the players know the game better than the devs. Instead of "fixing" the character development tree so every scrub in the game could have a focus effect every 9 levels ( while taking out phys mit, WHY even announce it on the webcast) start fixing the stuff that is STILL broken. Don't get why you are creating a scenario where you make it look like its broken and how the devs are going to SWOOP right in and fix it. You....broke......it......once again...STOP...MESSING....WITH......MECHANICS....Y OU...KNOW....NOTHING.....ABOUT.... Also, after the "removal" of phys mit, adding it back in on buffs makes you look even more incompetent. Why are we even having this discussion?, why are we testing how to make YOUR POINTLESSSSS nerf more balanced?. Removing and putting "numberz" back in does not make you appear "smart", the players just /sigh and tighten your helmet strap.

[Jrel]

<p><cite>Tigerr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I still cant believe they didn't add the Mitigation back in... It is pretty obvious that the devs have NO idea what is going on and how the game works...I really don't get it, did you guys need more overtime or something?... Do you think people don't notice how IDIOTIC these changes are?... Devs, you aren't balancing ANYTHING... Removing a stat and popping it back in on class buffs is something a 10 year old would do. There is no "fix"... STOP MESSING WITH STUFF THAT ISINT BROKEN... Cause guess what, instead of balancing, you guys are COMPLETELY screwing up balance. I'd be scared to tell you guys that you need to adjust ALOT of the encounters in the game to make up for the mit loss, we all know that you'd make level 10 toons, get hit 5 times on each class and check it all off as "WORKING AS INTENDEDZZZZZ GUYZZ< NO WORRIEZZZ" Seriously, either give us the mit we lost BACK or put it back on our buffs. Like I mentioned earlier, the players know the game better than the devs. Instead of "fixing" the character development tree so every scrub in the game could have a focus effect every 9 levels ( while taking out phys mit, WHY even announce it on the webcast) start fixing the stuff that is STILL broken. Don't get why you are creating a scenario where you make it look like its broken and how the devs are going to SWOOP right in and fix it. You....broke......it......once again...STOP...MESSING....WITH......MECHANICS....Y OU...KNOW....NOTHING.....ABOUT.... Also, after the "removal" of phys mit, adding it back in on buffs makes you look even more incompetent. Why are we even having this discussion?, why are we testing how to make YOUR POINTLESSSSS nerf more balanced?. Removing and putting "numberz" back in does not make you appear "smart", the players just /sigh and tighten your helmet strap.</blockquote><p>Without the CAPS and name-calling, I agree with this post, and said about the same thing earlier on the 30th of June in this thread.  If a dev could enlighten us on how this makes things easier for them in the long run, then say something because we don't see it.</p>

[Beko]

<p>You could always get +Mitigation on your chestplate/get mitigation jewelry, or ask to get more achievements to add mitigation.</p>

[kalaria]

<p>Another two sets of update notes and PRIESTS still are 1k mitigation short.Scouts and Mages have had all of their mitigation returned, it MUST be done for priests as well!</p>

[Beko]

<p>Maybe its a balance issue.</p>

[Mermut]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Maybe its a balance issue.</p></blockquote><p>Because priests are overpowered and having them die in raids more often is a good thing?</p>

[Silzin]

Priests will not get there Mitigation back throw demands, threads or name callings. the Dev's did what they did on purpen and they do know hoe much mitigation each and every class is losing or gaining. The only way you can get this changed is by GOING on to TEST COPY and ….. TESTING these changes and giving real feedback. like go run a a zone with a group of guildies or pug it if you can, and see if you just cannot survive the AoE's that you should before without problem. See how much more % you are taking on Test vs. Live. Also get a raid together, or whate for the Dev's to do it for you, and test your ability to take trauma aoe's in the raid zones that you could also survive on line.

[T'Pol]

<p><cite>Silzin@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>the Dev's did what they did on purpen and they do know hoe much mitigation each and every class is losing or gaining. The only way you can get this changed is by GOING on to TEST COPY and ….. TESTING these changes and giving real feedback. like go run a a zone with a group of guildies or pug it if you can, and see if you just cannot survive the AoE's that you should before without problem. See how much more % you are taking on Test vs. Live. Also get a raid together, or whate for the Dev's to do it for you, and test your ability to take trauma aoe's in the raid zones that you could also survive on line. </blockquote><p>They did this on purprose? Well what purpose would that be?</p><p>It makes no sense to change priests mitigation after all these years.</p><p>The entire archtype got nerfed with no regards of the worn armor (leather,chain,plate).</p><p>At least an explaination would be nice why they did this change. Is it a pvp issue that cant be solved without affecting pve?</p><p>Did someone in charge bang his head on something and came up with it? It so arbitrary.</p>

[Daalilama]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You could always get +Mitigation on your chestplate/get mitigation jewelry, or ask to get more achievements to add mitigation.</p></blockquote><p>Umm Beko do you even play the same game as us cause if so I'd like to know where you have seen mitigation jewelry for priests.</p>

[Beko]

<p><cite>Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You could always get +Mitigation on your chestplate/get mitigation jewelry, or ask to get more achievements to add mitigation.</p></blockquote><p>Umm Beko do you even play the same game as us cause if so I'd like to know where you have seen mitigation jewelry for priests.</p></blockquote><p>aITEM -2023991218 -1121247652:Fortified Hoop of the Mountain/a</p><p>aITEM -1465938051 -1432394342:Ironhide Earring/a</p><p>aITEM 1562682564 388478787:Earring of the Tranquil/a</p><p>aITEM -1106922444 844528155:Reinforced Poisoned Hoop/a</p><p>Take this jewelry... its dangerous to go alone.</p>

[T'Pol]

<p>Are you serious?</p><p>No you cant be.</p>

[Gealaen_Gaiamancer]

<p><cite>Lemon@Innovation wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are you serious?</p><p>No you cant be.</p></blockquote><p>Seems to be.  Kind of scary.</p>

[Landiin]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You could always get +Mitigation on your chestplate/get mitigation jewelry, or ask to get more achievements to add mitigation.</p></blockquote><p>Umm Beko do you even play the same game as us cause if so I'd like to know where you have seen mitigation jewelry for priests.</p></blockquote><p><a href="http://u.eq2wire.com/item/index/2270976078" target="_blank">aITEM -2023991218 -1121247652:Fortified Hoop of the Mountain/a</a></p><p><a href="http://u.eq2wire.com/item/index/2829029245" target="_blank">aITEM -1465938051 -1432394342:Ironhide Earring/a</a></p><p><a href="http://u.eq2wire.com/item/index/1562682564" target="_blank">aITEM 1562682564 388478787:Earring of the Tranquil/a</a></p><p><a href="http://u.eq2wire.com/item/index/3188044852" target="_blank">aITEM -1106922444 844528155:Reinforced Poisoned Hoop/a</a></p><p>Take this jewelry... its dangerous to go alone.</p></blockquote><p>ROFL, when I read people calling you cluless I just blew it off. Now I know why. </p><p>I added real links to the items so people could see how dumb your suggestions are.</p>

[tkia]

<p><cite>Lemon@Innovation wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>At least an explaination would be nice why they did this change. Is it a pvp issue that cant be solved without affecting pve?</p></blockquote><p>Nope.  Can't be that.  PVP was absolutely, definitely never going to affect our PVE game ....</p><p>Woof!</p>

[eohprod]

<p>All;</p><p>I've seen the requests to get in on test and actually test!  </p><p>So I did just that.  I took a brand new copy of my main from live onto test.  Geared precisely the same, AA all the same, stances the same, buffs same.  Only differences are the focus change and removal of old trait system.</p><p>This was done today (06/06/2012), after the mitigation additions to the priest spells went live on test.</p><p>Toon's mit on Live: 6940 (61.5%)</p><p>Toon's mit on Test: 6575 (60.2%)</p><p>Went to Munzok's and parsed on live and on test.  Results below (ACT generated HTML files- will take a minute to fully load so be patient):</p><p>Live: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.dominionofheroes.com/gleau/live/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.dominionofheroes.com/gle...live/index.html</a></p><p>Test: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.dominionofheroes.com/gleau/test/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.dominionofheroes.com/gle...test/index.html</a></p><p>I don't claim to be "hard core" nor a raider, so this is the best I can do in a few minutes.</p><p>Based on my analysis, live vs. test, I noted the following:</p><p>I had to heal almost 100k more HP on Test vs. Live.  I took 115k HP more damage on test.  That's for just a shade over 2 minutes of combat.  Having to heal more made combat last a quarter of a minute or so longer on test vs. live.</p><p>Subjectively, it felt harder- I definitely had to heal more to stay alive.  Mobs hit harder- I went into the red more often.  Usually, when I do Munzoks, my reactives/heal procs keep me in the yellow/green with the occasional heal needed.  Felt like I was getting beaten much harder and needing to reach for the heal spells more often on test.</p><p>As I said, I'm no expert, so look over the parses above and make your own conclusions. (Maybe you can tell me why my DPS is a good 10k lower, too <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )</p><p>Scaling this to modern raids just plain scares me.</p>

[Daalilama]

<p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You could always get +Mitigation on your chestplate/get mitigation jewelry, or ask to get more achievements to add mitigation.</p></blockquote><p>Umm Beko do you even play the same game as us cause if so I'd like to know where you have seen mitigation jewelry for priests.</p></blockquote><p>aITEM -2023991218 -1121247652:Fortified Hoop of the Mountain/a</p><p>aITEM -1465938051 -1432394342:Ironhide Earring/a</p><p>aITEM 1562682564 388478787:Earring of the Tranquil/a</p><p>aITEM -1106922444 844528155:Reinforced Poisoned Hoop/a</p><p>Take this jewelry... its dangerous to go alone.</p></blockquote><p>Please just go and sit in the corner and dont touch any of the sharp objects....</p>

[Rageincarnate]

<p>That's a bad suggestion.. but it's brings a decent point to mind..</p><p>Why is there no +mit on any current tier jewelry there sony?</p>

[Daalilama]

<p><cite>Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That's a bad suggestion.. but it's brings a decent point to mind..</p><p>Why is there no +mit on any current tier jewelry there sony?</p></blockquote><p>There is + to mitigation on skyshrine jewelry but only on the tank/scout stuff...</p>

[Beko]

<p>What keeps a healer from using +Mitigation Tank Gear? Its not like its off there set and they lose healing from losing wisdom.</p><p>The Tank Gear has +5% Mitigation, 7% Reuse, and DPS Mod/Attack Speed, you could easilly reuse to cast speed if you need it.</p>

[Elanjar]

<p><cite>Mermut wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beko@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Maybe its a balance issue.</p></blockquote><p>Because priests are overpowered and having them die in raids more often is a good thing?</p></blockquote><p>do you really have that big a survivability issue? cant remember the last time i died to a physical AE</p>

[Elanjar]

<p><cite>Lemon@Innovation wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They did this on purprose? Well what purpose would that be?</p><p>It makes no sense to change priests mitigation after all these years.</p><p>The entire archtype got nerfed with no regards of the worn armor (leather,chain,plate).</p><p>At least an explaination would be nice why they did this change. Is it a pvp issue that cant be solved without affecting pve?</p><p>Did someone in charge bang his head on something and came up with it? It so arbitrary.</p></blockquote><p>Maybe its because inquizitors solo current tier content all the time and its only been out a couple months...</p>

[The_Cheeseman]

<p>We're talking about priest mitigation jewelry and nobody brings up: <a href="http://u.eq2wire.com/item/index/3995274953" target="_blank">aITEM -299692343 897491992:Soulshattering Band/a</a></p><p>Terrible, just terrible.</p><p>Okay, so it's not actually physical mitigation, but Displacement is SO much better. Oh, and the stats on it don't suck quite as badly as the previously linked ones.</p>