Is dungeon maker seriously the worst xp in the game?

[Ahlana]

<p>I don't get it, the rewards suck, using an avatar sucks, most of the "designs" are just grinds, AND... AND it is the worst xp you could possibly get.</p><p>It doesn't seem to take into affect vitality or vet bonus... I just can't fathom why anyone would run these; unless they are after packs to make their own dungeons (ie my wife). So I run them with her and have more tokens then I can possibly do anything with. It is maddening I tell you lol. Xp that is worse than both questing and grinding.. no loot..</p><p>/bangs head</p><p>/rant off lol</p>

[Laenai]

<p>Its a shame, really, because dungeon maker could've been what bridged the gap between the decorators and the adventurers. They could've done SO much with it and changed the face of the game AND MMO gaming at the same time if they'd been able to think outside the box.</p><p>Sadly, this will be another "feature" that too much money was charged for in a fake expansion pack that will fall by the wayside and be forgotten by devs and players alike.</p>

[Ahlana]

<p><cite>Laenai@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Its a shame, really, because dungeon maker could've been what bridged the gap between the decorators and the adventurers. They could've done SO much with it and changed the face of the game AND MMO gaming at the same time if they'd been able to think outside the box.</p><p>Sadly, this will be another "feature" that too much money was charged for in a fake expansion pack that will fall by the wayside and be forgotten by devs and players alike.</p></blockquote><p>I looked forward to this feature. A never ending stream of content.. but then it failed on every level... EVERY LEVEL. I mean even the rating system doesn't let me know anything, I have to wade through page after page, grind after grind.. just to find one or two dungeons where someone TRIED to make something interesting.</p><p>I want it to be awesome.. I really do, but it doesn't seem that Sony wants it to be awesome.</p>

[faydh]

<p>Dungeon exp does add. bonus like vit, vet and pots.</p><p>At 90 or so exp sucks true. at low lvl it dont.</p><p>Take my short dungeon for eksampel. 15 min = 15K exp at lvl 24 or so that rocks.</p>

[Ahlana]

<p><cite>faydh wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Dungeon exp does add. bonus like vit, vet and pots.</p></blockquote><p>Really? Doesn't seem to matter what I do I get the same amount of xp per kill. My wife gets the same as me per kill and she doesn't have as much Veteran XP... and my friend that is leveling a toon up has been doing the dungeons with no vitality and no vet xp at all on that account and gets the same as me... Maybe it is added at the end and I just do not notice.</p><p>When I check the bar in the dungeon it doesn't show vet xp or potions.. and it shows no vitality and says I am earning normal xp. Guess I will have to try more experiments and check what it actually gives when I leave.</p>

[faydh]

<p>when i used a pot on my alt last time i got close to 100 exp more a mob.</p><p>Also i get more a kill if i have vit. I also get a message when completing telling me the amount of exp i got and the % Vit i used. This however is for low lvl alts. for some reason i do not see the dif from vit on my lvl 92 chars. Might be because i only need AA not sure.</p>

[feldon30]

<p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't get it, the rewards suck, using an avatar sucks, most of the "designs" are just grinds, AND... AND it is the worst xp you could possibly get.</p></blockquote><p>When we saw the final version of Dungeon Decorator, it was obvious that it would not have any "hooks" to keep either designers or players interested for more than a day or two.</p><p>Designers cannot create even the most basic encounters, boost individual mobs, add any kind of triggered events, area spawns, traps, doors, keys, lifts, quests, you know ANYTHING that might be more interactive than mobs standing around in decorated rooms. And then to add insult to injury, we were forced to run these non-interactive zones with non-interactive 4-spell bland Pokemon avatars.</p><p>If SOE wants us to be able to make dungeons which are comparable to even the most straightforward EQ2 dungeons, then they need to provide us the tools. And for those who say we cannot "handle" scripting or any kind of complexity, I point to the Housing Editor and NeverWinter Nights. NWN is a game built on the idea that PLAYERS create the content. It was successful enough to spawn a sequel. So don't tell me that players can't/won't create content if given the tools.</p><p>And the avatars were everything we hate about not being able to play our own characters. Just a handful of spells on long timers, and no personality or uniqueness whatsoever. I would have created 4-6 fully fleshed out distinctive avatars just for Dungeon Maker. I would have either made them very similar to existing EQ2 classes, or better yet, create 4-6 new/hybrid classes that are so interesting in their choice of spells/CAs and play style that <strong>we would be begging to be able to play them in non-DM dungeons</strong>.</p><p>Has anyone here ever wished they could play a DM avatar outside of Dungeon Decorator? It's like going from a Harley to a tricycle. It's not rocket science that nobody likes Dungeon Decorator.</p>

[Laenai]

<p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Laenai@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Its a shame, really, because dungeon maker could've been what bridged the gap between the decorators and the adventurers. They could've done SO much with it and changed the face of the game AND MMO gaming at the same time if they'd been able to think outside the box.</p><p>Sadly, this will be another "feature" that too much money was charged for in a fake expansion pack that will fall by the wayside and be forgotten by devs and players alike.</p></blockquote><p>I looked forward to this feature. A never ending stream of content.. but then it failed on every level... EVERY LEVEL. I mean even the rating system doesn't let me know anything, I have to wade through page after page, grind after grind.. just to find one or two dungeons where someone TRIED to make something interesting.</p><p>I want it to be awesome.. I really do, but it doesn't seem that Sony wants it to be awesome.</p></blockquote><p>A never-ending stream of content was also what I was looking for. Something dynamic and amazing and...quite honestly, if they had implemented it well, SoE devs could've taken a back seat on content and more or less let the players create the game for them, selecting the most awesome of the awesome and working it into the actual fabric of the game. I mean, have you seen some of these houses on Homeshow?! They're just working with blocky graphic pieces, no where near the tools the game's zone builders have, and they come up with some stuff that's more amazing than what you see in the game!</p><p>But, I guess we all called it when they announced it. This will be another "feature" we pay too much for, that gets talked up like the next, best thing, that fails miserably due to abysmal traditional SoE implementation, and never gets supported again.</p>

[General_Info]

<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>When we saw the final version of Dungeon Decorator, it was obvious that it would not have any "hooks" to keep either designers or players interested for more than a day or two.<p>Designers cannot create even the most basic encounters, boost individual mobs, add any kind of triggered events, area spawns, traps, doors, keys, lifts, quests, you know ANYTHING that might be more interactive than mobs standing around in decorated rooms. And then to add insult to injury, we were forced to run these non-interactive zones with non-interactive 4-spell bland Pokemon avatars.</p><p>If SOE wants us to be able to make dungeons which are comparable to even the most straightforward EQ2 dungeons, then they need to provide us the tools.</p><p>And the avatars were everything we hate about not being able to play our own characters. Just a handful of spells on long timers, and no personality or uniqueness whatsoever. I would have created 4-6 fully fleshed out distinctive avatars just for Dungeon Maker. I would have either made them very similar to existing EQ2 classes, or better yet, create 4-6 new/hybrid classes that are so interesting in their choice of spells/CAs and play style that <strong>we would be begging to be able to play them in non-DM dungeons</strong>.</p></blockquote><p>This. now granted if they'd designed most avatars so they take the physical apperance of the player (and looked like their class eg fighter, mage, scout, priest) with a few familiar tweaked abilities from the non-DM classes and then added a few non-player race avatars and then packaged the DM mob activators into 'by-race' instead of booster packs.</p><p>e.g spend X marks to buy standard iksar skeleton bundle (get all non-boss iksar skeleton types)</p><p>DM would be alot better with what i mentioned even without the advanced functions like requiring a key to unlock a door or placing a specific item on top of another item to trigger something and other scripts in and out of combat. it would have provided a solid basis for them to later implement scripted events. DMs could come up with ideas grind the marks for the bundles get all the activators they need for full variety instead of 1-2 appropriate activator types to fit the atomsphere the dungeon maker wanted.</p>

[Tyrus Dracofire]

<p>what we need....</p><p>platform lifts for upper/lower floors.</p><p>clickable items that is use for Teleporting, open the secret doors, or paintings/fake wall tunnels.</p><p>special effects (Vortex of books, trigger traps as seen in Nek Castle 3, mobs coming out of coffins, creepy glass dolls, and other stuffs).</p><p>puzzle tools, levers for raising-lowering water/lava pool, turning statues.</p>

[Avirodar]

<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Designers cannot create even the most basic encounters, boost individual mobs, add any kind of triggered events, area spawns, traps, doors, keys, lifts, quests, you know ANYTHING that might be more interactive than mobs standing around in decorated rooms. And then to add insult to injury, we were forced to run these non-interactive zones with non-interactive 4-spell bland Pokemon avatars.</p><p>If SOE wants us to be able to make dungeons which are comparable to even the most straightforward EQ2 dungeons, then they need to provide us the tools. And for those who say we cannot "handle" scripting or any kind of complexity, I point to the Housing Editor and NeverWinter Nights. NWN is a game built on the idea that PLAYERS create the content. It was successful enough to spawn a sequel. So don't tell me that players can't/won't create content if given the tools.</p></blockquote><p>I believe that the future of MMOs will be player created content. The game company will provide the base zones, and release more zones as time goes on... But they will also utilise player created content as a part of the core game design. NWN started something great, but it may be a while before it takes off in general MMOs.Players in EQ2 can create phenomonal things with incredibly limited resources. Some of the houses in EQ2 is radiant proof of such. Give these people better tools to do what they do, and there is no doubt they would create breathtaking zones. SOE could run the occasional competition for a zone to be built to a particular theme, where the winner is awarded a 3/6 (or even 12) month subscription bonus. Competition would be fierce, in a good way.Imagine playing the game, where you do not have to run the same zone in slightly varied formats, depending on if you're solo, grouping or raiding? Yes Skyshrine I am lookin' right at you. DoV and SF too!If SOE likes a zone that a player creates for a competition, some simple options exist from SOE's end... Take the zone, tweak it as needed, populate and itemize as needed, then release as a formal game zone. Slapping a few mobs in a pre-built zone, and making minor tweaks if desired, can't be that hard... And who wins? Everyone.I had hopes for dungeon maker. Hopes that were crushed. They seem to think of EQ2 players as little more than cow clickers, and credit cards with legs. The reality is, EQ2 possess people from all over the world, from all walks of life, with many brilliant and talent people. It is such a waste of potential, when dungeon maker is so severely neutered.</p>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>Why such gloom and doom everybody?.  "It ain't over 'till the fat lady sings", and we are just in act two.  DM will continue to evolve.  some of the bugs will get fixed, and new features will be added.  It's a process.  Take a longer view and give it some time.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>You don't even play your character in DM, as such you should get NO experience for your character, you should only level up your 4 button avatar.</p><p>When you explain how playing that avatar teaches me to be a better inquisitor, I'll agree that the XP rewards need looking into.</p>

[Ahlana]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You don't even play your character in DM, as such you should get NO experience for your character, you should only level up your 4 button avatar.</p><p>When you explain how playing that avatar teaches me to be a better inquisitor, I'll agree that the XP rewards need looking into.</p></blockquote><p>One doesn't play their characters while PLing behind a Tank on their way to the end.. Tell me how grinding in SoS behind a mentored 92 teaches you how to be a better inquisitor. Perhaps people shouldn't gain xp when being mentored?</p><p>But I did mention the avatar thing sucks as well, and have posted in other threads waiting for the so called play our own toon option. But that doesn't change the fact that your point is silly, as many people do not "play" their character until they are 90+</p><p>Lord knows I haven't even used a single CA or Buff even on my Guardian I am bringing up right now. I won't know if I like him or not til I am running SS zones where I will finally learn how to play him.</p>

[feldon30]

<p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You don't even play your character in DM, as such you should get NO experience for your character, you should only level up your 4 button avatar.</p><p>When you explain how playing that avatar teaches me to be a better inquisitor, I'll agree that the XP rewards need looking into.</p></blockquote><p>One doesn't play their characters while PLing behind a Tank on their way to the end.. Tell me how grinding in SoS behind a mentored 92 teaches you how to be a better inquisitor. Perhaps people shouldn't gain xp when being mentored?</p></blockquote><p>Boom Headshot!</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You don't even play your character in DM, as such you should get NO experience for your character, you should only level up your 4 button avatar.</p><p>When you explain how playing that avatar teaches me to be a better inquisitor, I'll agree that the XP rewards need looking into.</p></blockquote><p>One doesn't play their characters while PLing behind a Tank on their way to the end..</p></blockquote><p>Why should DM == PL?</p><p>PLing is a behavior that requires multiple players and or multiple accounts working together.  I'm not sure why it has any bearing on DM.  PLing is something generally only available to people repeating content / alts / whatever as those leveling the first time do not have resources to PL.</p><p>Why should someone  be able to solo DM as an avatar for PL level xp?</p>

[feldon30]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You don't even play your character in DM, as such you should get NO experience for your character, you should only level up your 4 button avatar.</p><p>When you explain how playing that avatar teaches me to be a better inquisitor, I'll agree that the XP rewards need looking into.</p></blockquote><p>One doesn't play their characters while PLing behind a Tank on their way to the end..</p></blockquote><p>Why should DM == PL?</p><p>PLing is a behavior that requires multiple players and or multiple accounts working together.  I'm not sure why it has any bearing on DM.  PLing is something generally only available to people repeating content / alts / whatever as those leveling the first time do not have resources to PL.</p><p>Why should someone  be able to solo DM as an avatar for PL level xp?</p></blockquote><p>You are looking at the letter of the law, instead of the spirit of the law.</p><p>Why should a decently geared Shadowknight be able to have 2-5 characters on autofollow earning hundreds of AA or dozens of levels for each with virtually no risk of death? Don't tell me you can watch what goes on with a straight face in Sanctum of Scaleborn or Palace of the Awakened on a Double XP weekend and say that is "working as intended", but earning XP from Dungeon Maker is somehow "wrong".</p><p>And I wasn't aware levels and AAs even really mattered anymore. It's just whatever contested dungeon you can put on lockdown, or instance you can 'sploit. With mercs and heal/power/rez potions, and soon-to-be mobs that actually announce which quests they update when killed, the solo content is a snoozefest.</p><p>I'm surprised they don't sell a 90/200 potion on the Marketplace already.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm surprised they don't sell a 90/200 potion on the Marketplace already.</p></blockquote><p>I have no issue with that, I just don't see how playing a mini-game with an avatar should in any way result in making your actual character more experienced.</p><p>What next, level via facebook games?</p>

[KenCoop]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What next, level via facebook games?</p></blockquote><p>Shhhh Atan, don't give them any ideas <span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469);"><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875);">.  If we have to start grinding some Zynga cow-clicker clone in order to get some random new item that is "required" to raid I think I'm going to be out :p.</span></span></p>

[Celline-Layonaire]

<p>No doubt the DM as it is now is meh, but I'm willing to wait several more years to witness what they can do about this feature.</p><p>And I certainly remember that Smed once said they'll put a strong focus on player-created contents in their future MMOs so who knows...  </p>

[Ahlana]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm surprised they don't sell a 90/200 potion on the Marketplace already.</p></blockquote><p>I have no issue with that, I just don't see how playing a mini-game with an avatar should in any way result in making your actual character more experienced.</p></blockquote><p>I don't see how AF behind a SK in SoS without hitting a single CA makes your character more experienced.</p><p>So let's set aside that arguement.. neither one makes the character more experienced or the player more experienced at playing the character.</p><p>HOWEVER, one could argue that the person actually PLAYING through Player Made Dungeons is indeed doring more work than the AF toon behind the SK.</p>

[feldon30]

<p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm surprised they don't sell a 90/200 potion on the Marketplace already.</p></blockquote><p>I have no issue with that, I just don't see how playing a mini-game with an avatar should in any way result in making your actual character more experienced.</p></blockquote><p>I don't see how AF behind a SK in SoS without hitting a single CA makes your character more experienced.</p><p>So let's set aside that arguement.. neither one makes the character more experienced or the player more experienced at playing the character.</p><p>HOWEVER, one could argue that the person actually PLAYING through Player Made Dungeons is indeed doring more work than the AF toon behind the SK.</p></blockquote><p>Exactly. If we really want to try to nail down what is "correct" gameplay, then make it so if you don't cast a spell or combat art, you don't get XP for killing a mob. Just imagine the outcry and ragequits.</p><p>In short, stop trying to nerf XP for Dungeon Decorator.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't see how AF behind a SK in SoS without hitting a single CA makes your character more experienced.</p></blockquote><p>Exactly. If we really want to try to nail down what is "correct" gameplay, then make it so if you don't cast a spell or combat art, you don't get XP for killing a mob. Just imagine the outcry and ragequits.</p><p>In short, stop trying to nerf XP for Dungeon Decorator.</p></blockquote><p>No, I'll take that arguement.  Sure, go ahead and make it so that if you don't participate in combat you get no xp.  You're biggest issue here is how much content dies to a single hit.</p><p>That is a seperate issue unrelated to DM, and it doesn't in anyway give justification to DM avatars giving experience on your actual toon.</p>

[Ahlana]

<p>We will just have to disagree Atan...</p><p>Anyone can see that in terms of character development and skill there is absolutely no difference in leveling in DM or PLing behind a decked tank.</p><p>I have PL'd many a toons in SoS and the like being an SK and none of those people learned that toon til it was maxed. Just finished a guildy who is doing 2k DPS on his dirge.. I am not sure how that is even possible, but that is where he is at, now it is time for him to actually learn the toon. Somehow though if he leveled in DM he would be doing even less DPS, I will have to take you at your word since the xp is so horrible there, that no one would ever dream going from 1-92 in it.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We will just have to disagree Atan...</p></blockquote><p>Indeed, cause from my persective there is as much reason for being able to level doing DM, as there is reason to level doing LON.</p>

[Absynthia]

<p>It was nice when we could kill bubbles for exp with the froggies <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but that has not just been lowered, there is NO exp for shooting those bubbles. It was  a great way as a solo player to to gain some exp...a grind, but I was still killing mob after mob.</p>

[feldon30]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We will just have to disagree Atan...</p></blockquote><p>Indeed, cause from my persective there is as much reason for being able to level doing DM, as there is reason to level doing LON.</p></blockquote><p>or being in the same room as combat is taking place, but not taking any actual part in the fight.</p><p>If I am standing in an operating room in a corner, I don't expect "You get better at performing surgery [1/450]."</p>

[The Dark Savant]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No, I'll take that arguement.  Sure, go ahead and make it so that if you don't participate in combat you get no xp.  You're biggest issue here is how much content dies to a single hit.</p><p>That is a seperate issue unrelated to DM, and it doesn't in anyway give justification to DM avatars giving experience on your actual toon.</p></blockquote><p>All it would take is some gesture towards integrating Dungeon Maker with the gameworld - say that it's all some kind of magical, illusory construct that your character is drawn into for exciting adventures... you know, like Worf training on the holodeck. As it stands, it's just an option on the menu, so I can understand both points of view.</p><p>Nonetheless I also think the notion of "experience" is already very broad in this game. You get experience for digging up roots and giving them to NPCs; you get experience, exactly the same kind of experience, from killing monsters; and, yes, experience from being PL'd while asleep at the keyboard. It's no stretch to say you get experience from temporarily taking the form of a monster and doing some player dungeon. But it would resolve the issue to somehow embed DM in the game (at least make an NPC to talk to about it, or something...) It's really jarring that I can run out of drink, leap into DM, get 10 dungeon marks, pop back in, use the station store to buy consumables, and I'm good to go.</p>

[Avirodar]

<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We will just have to disagree Atan...</p></blockquote><p>Indeed, cause from my persective there is as much reason for being able to level doing DM, as there is reason to level doing LON.</p></blockquote><p>or being in the same room as combat is taking place, but not taking any actual part in the fight.</p><p>If I am standing in an operating room in a corner, I don't expect "You get better at performing surgery [1/450]."</p></blockquote><p>Actually, you can learn through observation, it is a common training technique, especially for delicate or high risk tasks.I am with Atan on this. If SOE wants to make Dungeon Decorator give some kind of EXP, they should give us a way to level up our Dungeon Decorator Avatars (to unlock extra abilities etc for them, etc). It should not have any bearing on our actual adventuring character, who is not present, and not observing the act.When it gets to the point you can take your actual character into Dungeon Decorator, then absolutely, let the EXP come in.</p>

[Ahlana]

<p><cite>Avirodar@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We will just have to disagree Atan...</p></blockquote><p>Indeed, cause from my persective there is as much reason for being able to level doing DM, as there is reason to level doing LON.</p></blockquote><p>or being in the same room as combat is taking place, but not taking any actual part in the fight.</p><p>If I am standing in an operating room in a corner, I don't expect "You get better at performing surgery [1/450]."</p></blockquote><p>Actually, you can learn through observation, it is a common training technique, especially for delicate or high risk tasks.I am with Atan on this. If SOE wants to make Dungeon Decorator give some kind of EXP, they should give us a way to level up our Dungeon Decorator Avatars (to unlock extra abilities etc for them, etc). It should not have any bearing on our actual adventuring character, who is not present, and not observing the act.When it gets to the point you can take your actual character into Dungeon Decorator, then absolutely, let the EXP come in.</p></blockquote><p>Ok observing a tank AEing mobs in EQ2 is different than observing as a student in an OR.</p><p>You learn absolutely nothing from observing a tank PL you... except for maybe where to go to get PLed lol.</p><p>That aside I just don't see why anyone would even care if DM gave better XP. When the player gets to the end either via DM or PLed you will never know the difference.. chances are they are going to suck for a bit either way.</p>

[Laenai]

<p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Avirodar@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We will just have to disagree Atan...</p></blockquote><p>Indeed, cause from my persective there is as much reason for being able to level doing DM, as there is reason to level doing LON.</p></blockquote><p>or being in the same room as combat is taking place, but not taking any actual part in the fight.</p><p>If I am standing in an operating room in a corner, I don't expect "You get better at performing surgery [1/450]."</p></blockquote><p>Actually, you can learn through observation, it is a common training technique, especially for delicate or high risk tasks.I am with Atan on this. If SOE wants to make Dungeon Decorator give some kind of EXP, they should give us a way to level up our Dungeon Decorator Avatars (to unlock extra abilities etc for them, etc). It should not have any bearing on our actual adventuring character, who is not present, and not observing the act.When it gets to the point you can take your actual character into Dungeon Decorator, then absolutely, let the EXP come in.</p></blockquote><p>Ok observing a tank AEing mobs in EQ2 is different than observing as a student in an OR.</p><p>You learn absolutely nothing from observing a tank PL you... except for maybe where to go to get PLed lol.</p><p>That aside I just don't see why anyone would even care if DM gave better XP. When the player gets to the end either via DM or PLed you will never know the difference.. chances are they are going to suck for a bit either way.</p></blockquote><p>I honestly wouldn't mind or care if DM gave more XP. I do agree that DM should, honestly, vs. queueing up computer #2 and running alt #10 in their level 0 armor through Sebilis for the 100th time. At least if you run through DM, you have to...DO...something. Of course, I PL alts all the time as after alt #3, Norrath was a boring-please-kick-me-in-the-face grind, so I can't throw too many stones.</p><p>All in all, I wish DM itself had a massive improvement made. Mary mentioned that we were only in act 2, but at this point...act 2 for who? In true SoE fashion, they sit on their hands so long that by the time we see any integration or improvement, no one will even care nor play it anymore ie. it falls by the wayside. If they fixed dungeon finder tomorrow to be cross-server(BAHAHAHAHAHA!!) you know how many folks would utilize it? Next to none. Because its been a steaming pile for so long already.</p><p>Many, many, MANY of us would love to play an entirely dynamic game, not really caring who put the dungeons forward whether dev or player, where the world changed all the time and could be anything we wanted it to be...kind of like the one we actually live in. Play your way would take on a whole different meaning. But that takes actual implementation, design, and REAL support....something that's dreadfully lacking in all things SoE sponsored these days.</p>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>Fix the dark space bug and the resurrect at the default start of the dungeon (instead of where the player set the entrance).</p><p>Allow players to utilize their own toon as an avatar, (nerfed down to be reasonable for a lvl 50 dungeon of course).</p><p>Have a greater variety of MOBs available for DM designers.</p><p>Make elites and bosses more available for DM creators.</p><p>Introduce more and varied dungeon templates.</p><p>Find the 'sweet spot' for DM experience so that Style Dungeons and Token Dungeons <strong>both</strong> have a purpose.</p><p>Of course as always the devil is in the details, especially for DM experience, and the Law of Unintended Consequences.</p><p>I expect we will see all of the above within the next year.</p>

[faydh]

<p>I wonder if any GMs ever read this part of the forum</p>

[Ahlana]

<p><cite>Laenai@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I honestly wouldn't mind or care if DM gave more XP. I do agree that DM should, honestly, vs. queueing up computer #2 and running alt #10 in their level 0 armor through Sebilis for the 100th time. At least if you run through DM, you have to...DO...something. Of course, I PL alts all the time as after alt #3, Norrath was a boring-please-kick-me-in-the-face grind, so I can't throw too many stones.</p></blockquote><p>Heh no stone throwing here. As my main is a SK and I PL many a toons, just did 60AAs in an hour for my guardian earlier before work lol.</p><p>Just that as it stands there is no reason to run DM</p><p>And PL = more xp for no workAnd DM = less xp for more work</p><p>Just one uses your actual characters and one does not. I would still not use DM to level if the XP was raised, the original point of the thread is to highlight that there is absolutely no reason to run these. None what-so-ever (for an adventurer). I would continue to PL via current methods if the XP was raised because it is so crazy easy and fast that it would be silly not to.</p><p>And just to note I do see that you said you would not mind if it were raised, this isn't an attack response lol. Some people are twitchy and though no one has been rude in this thread I want to make sure you don't take this post wrong <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p>