AFK w/ Merc

[Chaim Witz]

<p>I am looking for an official answer on this....</p><p>Is it against the rules to stand afk while your merc kills mobs for xp?</p><p>I've seen this talked about in game, and I thought here as well but can't find it. I don't have a problem with people doing it, I just want to make sure what the rule is. With my luck I'll do it and get banned when Bob over here has been doing it since AoD release.</p>

[sanamin]

<p>Color me crazy but since the last thread about this subject got zero response and eventually was locked. This one will be treated the same but in a faster way.</p>

[Alpharaz]

<p>Personally I would hope it would be against the rules, but evidently not much people care and there hasn't really been a straight answer confirmed one way or another as far as i can tell.</p>

[Brigh]

<p>How did you not find it? One post last week: locked. Another post a few days ago that is still on the first page: locked.</p><p>Just typing "afk" in the search function and submitting it you get <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/search/search.m?clean=1&query=afk&keywordType=&searchTerms=all&author=&userType=&exactMatch=true&forumId=&sortBy=relevance&sortDir=DESC&categoryId=&postTime=" target="_blank">these results</a>. I suggest you read those.</p><p>Note that there seems to possibly be an <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?&topic_id=184413" target="_blank">inconsistency across SoE games on the matter</a> since as you can see from the second locked thread here, there is a knowledge base article for EQ II which states one thing (IMO you really should ignore the last paragraph as who ever wrote that up doesn't know how to split subject matter), whereas another thing is said to be stated with the other game.</p><p>edit: EQ I links for the "lazy" <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=184610#2784537" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/p...=184610#2784537</a></p><p><em>-I petitioned a GM they said it's perfectly legal, i guess someone having a zone on camp 24/7 is legal.</em></p><p>-<em>The legitness of this does confuse me.  As it is not allowed in EQ2.  Nor is it allowed in LOTRO.</em></p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=184610#2784682" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/p...=184610#2784682</a></p><p>-<em>AFK camping is not against the rules and has been stated so by Sony</em>.</p><p>-<em>pretty sure its not against the rules as long as you are not useing a 3rd party program to auto buff the mercs or auto loot the corpses laying around.</em></p><p><em>or if you are disrupting a zone, ie: standing over the spawn point of a needed quest npc and auto killing it</em>.</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=30&topic_id=184610#2784776" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/p...=184610#2784776</a></p><p>-<em>Oddly Sony does not have a position on this type of Exploiting of game mechanics.  I have petitioned about AFK Merc'ers in the Hole before and the response was always in favor of the AFKer, stating that the company has not yet decided if this is a violation or not, very odd policy.</em></p><p>-<em>As stated by others SoE has said that AFk merc killing is legal aslong as no 3rd party programs are used .</em></p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=184413#2782373" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/p...=184413#2782373</a></p><p>-<em>Yes you are allowed to AFK xp with mercs. Aslong as you are not running any 3rd party apps to control the toons. letting 2 mercs kill things while your afk is allowed though. The disclaimer to that is aslong as its not distrupting the zone.</em></p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=184413#2782376" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/p...=184413#2782376</a></p><p>-<em>As was mentioned yes it's allowed and no about good aaxp.</em></p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=184413#2783349" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/p...=184413#2783349</a></p><p>-<em>This came up when Merc's were first added, the Dev's said it is allowed; between the upkeep costs, the possiblity that the mobs might kill the group eventually, and the presedence set with pets they felt that it was not game breaking.</em></p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=184413#2802973" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/p...=184413#2802973</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=184413#2802973 (read" target="_blank"> </a>  (read the supposed GM reply to a petition in EQ I)</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=30&topic_id=184413#2803330" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/p...=184413#2803330</a></p><p>-<em>I seem to recall that a redname actually DID post on here at one point, saying basically the same thing that GM did. But the search feature sucks, and I'm certainly not going to flip through dozens of pages of posts in various forums and archives looking for the thread...Yeah, I flipped through a few pages the other day, when it was first brought up about a redname, and I am pretty sure that I *do* remember one posting that it wasn't against the rules, as long as zone disruption wasn't going on, but I can't remember who it was, nor which thread it was in.</em></p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=30&topic_id=184413#2803341" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/p...=184413#2803341</a></p><p>-<em>gms posted about this, they said it was 100% ok as long as the person is not disrupting the zone by:</em></p><p><em>camping nameds</em></p><p><em>camping quest mobs.</em></p><p><em>this only becomes illegal if the afk person is running scripts on keyboards, or third party programs, to loot the mobs that are being killed while afk.</em></p><p><em>the reason it is accepted is because it costs money, at high level if you were to afk kill with mercs, it would be costing over 400 plat an hour.  so if the afk person was afk for 8 hours it would cost them 3200 plat. and since they are not allowed to loot while afk, they are not gaining anything other then exp.</em></p><p><em>"""""Please know that we advise against doing this as if a player is at a spot where a quest NPC spawns and a player is doing the quest, they could be found in violation for Zone Disruption as they can not answer if they are asked to share the camp. Also, players doing this while AFK are unable to protect themselves if they are trained or resurrect themselves if they are killed, causing them to lose EXP.""""</em></p><p><em>is from the gm, i decided to copy just that section instead of the entire reply</em></p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=90&topic_id=181668#2744743" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/p...=181668#2744743</a></p><p><em>-If it's reasonable and not unfair it's not cheating. If it gives you an unfair advantage and allows you to do things that can't be normally done in game it's cheating.</em></p><p><em>-Piestro </em></p><p><em>EverQuest II Community Manager</em></p><p>ETC...</p>

[Chaim Witz]

<p>Thanks for the response. I actually meant I couldn't find a cut and dry answer from someone at SOE, I just didn't word it right. I'd skimmed through some of those threads and mostly found agruments. But you pasted a few interesting things.</p>

[General_Info]

<p><cite>Chaim Witz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Thanks for the response. I actually meant I couldn't find a cut and dry answer from someone at SOE, I just didn't word it right. I'd skimmed through some of those threads and mostly found agruments. But you pasted a few interesting things.</p></blockquote><p>What may be allowed in EQ isn't neccessarily true for EQ2 take note that all sources are from the EQ forums.</p><p>one major difference is the cost of mercs as such you could justify from the company's side letting people afk level with mercs since it costs 400 plat per hour in EQ as long as the person doing it isn't disrupting the zone or quest npcs and isn't using 3rd party tools.</p><p>-----</p><p>When in doubt file a ticket and ask, if they dont give you a straight awnser assume that it isn't allowed so that when they do decide one way or another there is no risk to you of being punished</p>

[Ahlana]

<p><cite>Chaim Witz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Thanks for the response. I actually meant I couldn't find a cut and dry answer from someone at SOE, I just didn't word it right. I'd skimmed through some of those threads and mostly found agruments. But you pasted a few interesting things.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah Brigh has yet to prove that SOE approves on EQ1 as there are no official comments. Also this topic was just brought up and closed by a mod</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=518080" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=518080</a></p><p>You will see some people posted there own responces from EQ1 GMs that sound like it is not ok over there at all.</p><p>As far as for here.. we know it isn't as people have just recently been suspended for it. Making t his the third topic this week or so actually.. the one where the guy was complaining about being suspended for it is also locked... give it time this one will be as well :p</p>

[Marnus]

<p><cite>Chaim Witz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am looking for an official answer on this....</p><p>Is it against the rules to stand afk while your merc kills mobs for xp?</p><p>I've seen this talked about in game, and I thought here as well but can't find it. I don't have a problem with people doing it, I just want to make sure what the rule is. With my luck I'll do it and get banned when Bob over here has been doing it since AoD release.</p></blockquote><p>It's not worth it-it is against the rules, I've petitioned about it, was told it was a violation. Regardless of what people say here, and aside from the fact its cheating, is it really worth jeopardizing your account for? When you get caught-and eventually you will-what will your defense be?.."Oh some random guy told me they let you do it on eq1". As has been pointed out, leveling is so simple a monkey could do it anyway-so why even bother breaking the rules for some reduced exp while your afk? More importantly, why play a game, if your not going to actually "play"? I just dont get this mindset?</p>

[Hateeternal]

<p><cite>Marnus@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Chaim Witz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>...</blockquote><p>It's not worth it-it is against the rules, I've petitioned about it, was told it was a violation. Regardless of what people say here, and aside from the fact its cheating, is it really worth jeopardizing your account for? When you get caught-and eventually you will-what will your defense be?.."Oh some random guy told me they let you do it on eq1". As has been pointed out, leveling is so simple a monkey could do it anyway-so why even bother breaking the rules for some reduced exp while your afk? More importantly, why play a game, if your not going to actually "play"? I just dont get this mindset?</p></blockquote><p>One question, how can it be against the rules or a violation and how can you call this cheating?</p><p>Mercs were implemented by SOE. They do work the way intended and if they kill stuff while you're afk AND the game mechanics allow that -> there is no cheating.</p><p>If SOE would build in a barrier to avoid that (and there have already been more than enough good suggestions i.e. mercs turn off all protection if player is flagged afk / hasn't moved in x mins/hours etc.) and players would find a way to work AROUND the actual game mechanic - maybe that could be called cheating.</p><p>The way you're saying it, it would also be cheating if someone drinks a potion and gets 2 hours double xp - that's just game mechanics pal <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>(and no i don't bot nor do I afk-level, don't even use mercs cus i don't like them)</p>

[Marnus]

<p><cite>Hateeternal wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Marnus@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Chaim Witz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>...</blockquote><p>It's not worth it-it is against the rules, I've petitioned about it, was told it was a violation. Regardless of what people say here, and aside from the fact its cheating, is it really worth jeopardizing your account for? When you get caught-and eventually you will-what will your defense be?.."Oh some random guy told me they let you do it on eq1". As has been pointed out, leveling is so simple a monkey could do it anyway-so why even bother breaking the rules for some reduced exp while your afk? More importantly, why play a game, if your not going to actually "play"? I just dont get this mindset?</p></blockquote><p>One question, how can it be against the rules or a violation and how can you call this cheating?</p><p>Mercs were implemented by SOE. They do work the way intended and if they kill stuff while you're afk AND the game mechanics allow that -> there is no cheating.</p><p>If SOE would build in a barrier to avoid that (and there have already been more than enough good suggestions i.e. mercs turn off all protection if player is flagged afk / hasn't moved in x mins/hours etc.) and players would find a way to work AROUND the actual game mechanic - maybe that could be called cheating.</p><p>The way you're saying it, it would also be cheating if someone drinks a potion and gets 2 hours double xp - that's just game mechanics pal <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>(and no i don't bot nor do I afk-level, don't even use mercs cus i don't like them)</p></blockquote><p>I guess do what you want with your account lol, if you really want an answer from a gm, send a petition and ask them if its ok to let your merc kill while you go watch a movie/eat dinner/go to bed. If i have to explain  to you why gaining levels when you arent even at your computer is cheating, then...i dont know what else to say lol</p>

[Hateeternal]

<p>First, I don't use mercs nor do I use any bots.</p><p>Second, if a GM would tell me that what you wrote, I would tell him the merc is working as intended and if he wouldn't want it to be that way to please change it or otherwise leave me alone.</p><p>You didn't understand my point of making <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>USE OF GAME MECHANICS</strong></span> can never be cheating in any shape or form. The merc does what it's supposed to do end of discussion. If they really considered this cheating (and they don't, no GM would tell such nonsense! at best they would say they can't give any more information until it is decided from a higher position..) they would just make a change to mechanic - which they don't ergo no cheating.</p><p>And lastly, noone can ever actually PROVE that someone is really afk! Except you drive home to that person and look for yourself if he's on the computer.</p>

[General_Info]

<p><cite>Hateeternal wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>First, I don't use mercs nor do I use any bots.</p><p>Second, if a GM would tell me that what you wrote, I would tell him the merc is working as intended and if he wouldn't want it to be that way to please change it or otherwise leave me alone.</p><p>You didn't understand my point of making <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>USE OF GAME MECHANICS</strong></span> can never be cheating in any shape or form. The merc does what it's supposed to do end of discussion. If they really considered this cheating (and they don't, no GM would tell such nonsense! at best they would say they can't give any more information until it is decided from a higher position..) they would just make a change to mechanic - which they don't ergo no cheating.</p><p>And lastly, noone can ever actually PROVE that someone is really afk! Except you drive home to that person and look for yourself if he's on the computer.</p></blockquote><p>It can be cheating if the mechanic/feature was not intended to be used the way which it is being used. [protect me] and [protect yourself] were meant by the developers to be used in combat with input from the player and not while the player is not inputing any commands or actions such as moving.</p><p>It doesn't matter which way you percieve AFK to mean, game companies interpret AFK as the game client running for a specified time without direct player input. technicalities don't concern them.</p>

[Hateeternal]

<p><cite>General_Info wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hateeternal wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>...</blockquote><p>It can be cheating if the mechanic/feature was not intended to be used the way which it is being used. [protect me] and [protect yourself] were meant by the developers to be used in combat with input from the player and not while the player is not inputing any commands or actions such as moving.</p><p>It doesn't matter which way you percieve AFK to mean, game companies interpret AFK as the game client running for a specified time without direct player input. technicalities don't concern them.</p></blockquote><p>So you and me are basically thinking the same way.</p><p>Only that you take it as given that the protection settings aren't working the way SOE intended.</p><p>Why would they be only "meant to be used in combat with input" when they are clearly also there while out of combat and not inputting?</p><p>I'm thinking they don't automatically turn off even if you are considered afk by the game (aka being auto-flagged) and since SOE won't change this, though they know in what ways it can be used - there were enough threads about it, it really <em>IS</em> working as intended. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Ahlana]

<p>It is not a hard concept to get.. whether you think it should be ok or not is irrelevant as people have been recently suspended for it here in EQ2</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=518080">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=518080</a></p><p>That is it.. there is your answer.. it is NOT OK. No matter how you twist game mechanics.. there are a lot of game mechanics that have been used and abused in the past in ways they were not meant, and it took time for SOE to finally change some of them. It did not make it ok to use them in ways they were not meant, just like this topic.</p><p>If you see people doing it, petition them.. eventually they will be caught and as in that other thread, they will be suspended.</p>

[Hateeternal]

<p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It is not a hard concept to get.. whether you think it should be ok or not is irrelevant as people have been recently suspended for it here in EQ2</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=518080">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=518080</a></p><p>That is it.. there is your answer.. it is NOT OK. No matter how you twist game mechanics.. there are a lot of game mechanics that have been used and abused in the past in ways they were not meant, and it took time for SOE to finally change some of them. It did not make it ok to use them in ways they were not meant, just like this topic.</p><p>If you see people doing it, petition them.. eventually they will be caught and as in that other thread, they will be suspended.</p></blockquote><p>Where is this an answer? Totally random, groundless bans are no official answer. Plus noone knows if anyone really got banned since GM's are not supposed to talk about that.</p><p>There isn't even any "twisting" of game mechanics cause it's just USING them (the way intended!)</p><p>Do you also call people cheaters that solo PR and loot all the plat that was intended for an entire raid?</p><p>It is intended to be that way, otherwise the plat would have changed. And everyone has the same right and ability to do that. But maybe not the skills or the wit to do it, so they run to mama and ask for a change because it seems "unfair" to them how others play ---- this is sick! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Plus noone is getting an unfair advantage over anyone else, since everyone has the same right and chance to get a Merc themselves and do the same thing. So no unfair advantages here which define cheating/exploiting.</p><p>Also if someone camps a spawn point of mobs that you need for anything, you have the same right and chance to get a merc yourself and place yourself right next (or into) your so-called "exploiter" - same chances for everyone. Very fair in my eyes.</p><p>Until there is no official statement / fix of the mechanics this is just gonna keep happening - you can either come here and whine or petition (so basically grief) another player or you can keep enjoying the game the way you like it.</p>

[SOE-MOD-04]

<p>Closing this one down as we have had plenty of threads on the subject.</p>