Reforge Nerf on Test.

[Talathion]

<p><img src="http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2695/livetest.jpg" /></p><p>1 DPS Mod before could reforge to 0.8% MA.</p><p>1 DPS Now Reforges to 0.2% MA.</p><p>Its not just MA, its nerfed ALL around.</p><p>The conversions arn't worth reforging, this makes an entire expansion worthless.</p>

[Fyang]

<p>seems, they just nerfed MA.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>Can I get a refund on AOD? that was the only reason I bought the expansion.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>I would like an explanation why this is not in the patch notes.</p>

[Elskidor]

<p>Like to say it's a bug, but I would not put anything past these jokers. We ask for content, and get ninja nerfs. Hell, it's something new...</p>

[Shotneedle]

<p>Here you go Tala, I'll make a patch note for you.</p><p><cite>SomeSOEEmployee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p style="color: #d2c5a9; background-color: #221f1c; margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-size: small;">REFORGING</span></span></p><p style="color: #d2c5a9; font-size: 12px; background-color: #221f1c; margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Lowered the value of MA gained by reforging by 56%.</span></span></p><p style="color: #d2c5a9; font-size: 12px; background-color: #221f1c; margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Lowered the value of AE Auto Attack gained by reforging by 25%.</span></span></p></blockquote>

[Ravensbelly]

<p>i had notticed this shortly after GU63 went on test, figured it was a bug. it kinda sucks since SOE is putting just any random garbage stat on the new gear cause they expect us just reforge it.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>thats dumb..</p>

[Shotneedle]

<p>I'm curious why the MA nerf was 56/57% though. It's a cool number and all, but why?</p>

[Geothe]

<p>Quality Bait and Switch by SoE yet again.</p><p>Grab AoD so that you can try and correct the moronic itemization done by the Devs... and then they screw over the one feature that was actually of use in the "feature pack"</p>

[Leawyn]

<p>This is unacceptable. If this is a bug, it needs to be fixed. If this is NOT a bug, it needs to be undone. Half the reason for reforging was to give melee priests a chance to somewhat fix gear, since the dev's refused to make gear with stats they wanted. Now you're nerfing the most desirable stat? I am almost willing to put money that worthless crap like spell weapon stats got a ninja boost too, since the dev's seem to think that spell weapons are the best thing since sliced bread.</p>

[Caster_III]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1 DPS Mod before could reforge to 0.8% MA.</p><p>1 DPS Now Reforges to 0.2% MA.</p><p>Its not just MA, its nerfed ALL around.</p><p>The conversions arn't worth reforging, this makes an entire expansion worthless.</p></blockquote><p>I'd risk a guess that it's been bugged since AOD launch, and just getting fixed.   </p><p>IIR,  the announced reforging math was  to chop the source stat in half (i.e.take  50%) and then charge a tax of something like 10%.     You'd wind up with what a small residual of the original stat and about 40 to 45%% of the original stat as the new stat.   Don't hold me to the exact formula, since it's from memory, and varied per target stat but you never wound up with anything near the original stat in the new one.   For instance, take your example item, and convert to Ability Casting Speed, a stat useful to casters who aren't capped, and check the conversion rate.</p><p>That's the way it worked for casters, then and now,  and there was complaining in AOD beta about the scouts getting the "good" reforging for MA specifically.    Either MA was singled out for special treatment, or it was just bugged in the code since day 1.</p><p>I play both, and noted the discrepancy back then, so am not surprised now. </p><p>I frankly would prefer leaving the MA reforging as is, and raising the casters up to the same ratio.  (i.e. 80% instead of 40%).    That way reforging would at least do something meaningful,  rather than adding a glowy effect.</p>

[Shotneedle]

<p><cite>Caster_III wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1 DPS Mod before could reforge to 0.8% MA.</p><p>1 DPS Now Reforges to 0.2% MA.</p><p>Its not just MA, its nerfed ALL around.</p><p>The conversions arn't worth reforging, this makes an entire expansion worthless.</p></blockquote><p>I'd risk a guess that it's been bugged since AOD launch, and just getting fixed.   </p><p>IIR,  the announced reforging math was  to chop the source stat in half (i.e.take  50%) and then charge a tax of something like 10%.     You'd wind up with what a small residual of the original stat and about 40 to 45%% of the original stat as the new stat.   Don't hold me to the exact formula, since it's from memory, and varied per target stat but you never wound up with anything near the original stat in the new one.   For instance, take your example item, and convert to Ability Casting Speed, a stat useful to casters who aren't capped, and check the conversion rate.</p><p>That's the way it worked for casters, then and now,  and there was complaining in AOD beta about the scouts getting the "good" reforging for MA specifically.    Either MA was singled out for special treatment, or it was just bugged in the code since day 1.</p><p>I play both, and noted the discrepancy back then, so am not surprised now. </p><p>I frankly would prefer leaving the MA reforging as is, and raising the casters up to the same ratio.  (i.e. 80% instead of 40%).    That way reforging would at least do something meaningful,  rather than adding a glowy effect.</p></blockquote><p>Everything has a different reforge rate. Also I believe what they said when it was put in was that you were supposed to get 80% of the stat. 10% would go poof and 10% would remain from the source stat. And it's MA and AE Auto at two different values, so it's not a mistake.</p><p>Also, thanks for making me remember that. 56% makes sense now. 56% is actually 70%. (I think AE Auto works on a different scale because it's not 80%, but idk.)</p><p>Also also, in the above scenario, this is a bug. I'm assuming you meant to cut the MA conversions by half (which is still dumb, btw) but some # got cut from 100 to 50, and when it takes 10% off the top and 10% goes poof, it's actually a different equation, so it ended up nerfing the MA rate from 80% to 30% instead of to 40%, which you would need to add 10% back on. Just a theory, though. Half makes more sense to me, anyway.</p><p><cite>Maewyn@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is unacceptable. If this is a bug, it needs to be fixed. If this is NOT a bug, it needs to be undone. Half the reason for reforging was to give melee priests a chance to somewhat fix gear, since the dev's refused to make gear with stats they wanted. Now you're nerfing the most desirable stat? I am almost willing to put money that worthless crap like spell weapon stats got a ninja boost too, since the dev's seem to think that spell weapons are the best thing since sliced bread.</p></blockquote><p>Nothing was changed except the nerf to MA and AE Auto.</p>

[Triste-Lune]

uNDO THIS NERF IT S UNACCEPTABLE fIRST THE PSS1 FIASCO NOW THE SOLE CONTENT FROM AOD WORTH SOMETHING RENDERED USELESS...

[Lethlian]

<p>This really is a facepalm moment if they decide to nerf players (our) ability to reforge items more effectively. Itemization has been a disater (albiet the only good thing so far from it has been the universal model-standard for gear) Reforging was a way for players to more positively and effectively adjust there toons stats accordingly to a personal preferrence/desirable play style. (regardless of bringing up issues of if you fall into the casual, raider, whatever catergory)</p><p>(also seeing that to this point the devs haven't seem content to address itemization themselves... but IF they are working on it then you have my abundant thanks...BUT with no communication to players/paying account holders on any mode or official medium to the state of itemization,  makes my preception of them not doing a dang thing reality)</p><p>As of now AOD was simply an expansive FEATURE update and they just nerfed the NUMBER ONE feature it had going for it usable by all players of all classes. Now all we have left from that player-account-wallet-money-sink is the Beast Lord class.</p><p>/golf clap</p><p>on a side note, its the continual small things like this that just kills the game for me. IIRC no one was complaining about the *current* reforge rates. Now there about to get an avalanche of peeps who are going to cause the moderators on this site grief for fixing something that din't need to be fixed.</p><p>I'll be amazed if this post even stays up. I get the feeling a moderator is prolly going to squash my two cents.</p>

[yadlajoi]

The only featured that made me buy AoD in order to fix my melee inquisitor. It s beyond belief that SOE could just alienate players after the PSS1 fiasco (wich by the way is still on going and we are still waiting to see how SOE will deal with) Seriously SOE stop taking incomprehensible decision.

[Irgun]

<p>I could understand a reforge-nerf if we could reforge cb/potency in order to generate endless dps - but MA and</p><p>aoe-melee are capped stats and this really isnt necessary. ~</p>

[Caster_III]

<p><cite>Buffrat@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite></cite><strong>Everything has a different reforge rate. </strong></p></blockquote> <p>Yes, I understand and agree.  I knew when I typed it I'd get called out, but it was late.   Generally, it appeared they were trying to convert stats to equivalent impact on the toon's actual damage output, with a reforging cost subtractor tossed in,  but seemingly converted more favorably on DPS to MA and AE than other stats for other archtypes. </p> <p>What this new change seems to mean is reforging becomes not particularly attractive for anybody, not just 3 of the 4 archtypes.</p> <p>Again, I'll reiterate.  I don't favor the current nerf change as a "balancing fix".   I favor reverting all the other archtypes to the same more or less useful level of reforging that MA got pre nerf.  That way reforging would be sought after for something other than appearance stuff.</p>

[Asif]

<p>Nerf nerf nerf thats all you guys seem to be good at now.</p><p>First you you nerfed my 2handed priest weapon not once but twice and now this .</p><p>You folks at SOE have to start chaging the way you do thinks or you will FORCE me to leave this game i have had just about enough.</p><p>LESS nerfing for crying out loud.!!!!!!</p><p>Learn to do things right the first time for christ sake its really easy the rest of the work force can do it why not you.</p>

[Shotneedle]

<p>Nerfing it and saying why you nerfed it is one thing, and understandable.</p><p>Nerfing it and not putting it in patch notes nor mentioning anything about it makes me sadface irl.</p>

[Neiloch]

<p>Well they obviously have data telling them they should nerf it. Maybe they will use that same data to give items STATS WE WANT.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>I would like an explanation...</p><p>THE ONLY REASON I GOT AOD was so I could get more Multiattack.</p><p>I HATE DUNGEON MAKER.</p><p>I HATE BEASTLORDS. (and pet classes.)</p><p>I HATE Everything else!</p>

[Bruener]

<p>I know as a fighter this is quite the blow.  I was finally starting to get at least a decent amount of MA, still a ways from cap, but starting to get some.  It was done by reforging stats to MA.</p><p>Fighters aren't given out MA like crazy like some classes and this was actually a good thing.</p><p>Bummer.</p>

[Hene]

<p>Nerfing item reforging seems like yet another knee jerk reaction to something that doesn't seem that bad, and frankly was a pretty good idea since the devs didn't put in any time for extra, hybrid itemization</p><p>if theres a problem with it why not just come out and say it? and then do something with itemization to make up for the deficiency they create from this kind of nerf</p>

[The_Cheeseman]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would like an explanation...</p><p>THE ONLY REASON I GOT AOD was so I could get more Multiattack.</p><p>I HATE DUNGEON MAKER.</p><p>I HATE BEASTLORDS. (and pet classes.)</p><p>I HATE Everything else!</p></blockquote><p>Umm... Have you considered some counseling? You seem to have a lot of pent-up anger over this game.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would like an explanation...</p><p>THE ONLY REASON I GOT AOD was so I could get more Multiattack.</p><p>I HATE DUNGEON MAKER.</p><p>I HATE BEASTLORDS. (and pet classes.)</p><p>I HATE Everything else!</p></blockquote><p>Umm... Have you considered some counseling? You seem to have a lot of pent-up anger over this game.</p></blockquote><p>Berserkers are suppost to be angry!</p>

[crackers_87]

<p>SOE</p><p>Why would you take 1 of the 2 good things we got with AoD away?</p><p>Reforging has been alsome! Nerfing this or taking it away would be DUM!</p><p>Plz restor reforging to what it was.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>I think Strikethrough was nerfed as well.</p><p>65 DPS Mod = 16% Strikethrough? lol</p>

[Davngr1]

<p>this is ok, i guess.     some items that were never suppose to be as high on the point system somehow become top notch after reforging.</p><p>  one thing devs HAVE to do now is give 6 second weapons and 4 second weapons EQUAL stats.   giving 4 sec weapons 40ma and 6 sec weaps 30dps mod is ridiculous specially with this HUGE nerf.</p>

[bwest86]

First off I would like to say that there is a chance this is probably just a bug. With that being said the stat inflation of gear in GU63 would make reforging simply over powered when it comes to converting multi attack and ae auto attack. On my SK I have 4 items with over 50 cast speed and dps mod each of which would convert to a TON of multi attack had it reforged the same way it would on live. While I would have loved to have had the extra multi it would have most definitely been broken. TL<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />R, less QQ more PEW PEW.

[crackers_87]

<p>Well i gess its time to go.  Ill see if this is still F ed up when it goeg live. If it is,  I just found my way to save money!</p>

[Tekadeo]

<p>Relax guys.  SoE is driving away players by the thousands, this is their goal;.  D3 will be here soon enough, and GW2 probably soon thereafter, and we can put this nightmare SOE has put us through the past couple years to bed for good.</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>Tekadeo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Relax guys.  SoE is driving away players by the thousands, this is their goal;.  D3 will be here soon enough, and GW2 probably soon thereafter, and we can put this nightmare SOE has put us through the past couple years to bed for good.</p></blockquote><p>Yep, it seems like they sit down at their meetings and look for ways to drive people away.</p>

[Jblaze2]

<p>This better be a bug. Or they better refund me the plat and items I replaced buying rare drops just to reforge for more multi attack.</p><p>Do they even want to make money anymore?</p>

[Tigerr]

<p>So just because they decided to inflate stats with Skyshrine, that will completely make everything pre Skyshrine USELESS.... They get to nerf reforging to compensate?... How does this logic even make sense. Instead of nerfing reforging cause you guys put 45% multiattack on random items, maybe you should really fix the root of the problem and deflate some of those stats You will see alot of the people that dont know what is going on and that dont visit these forums, just get up and slowly stop playing. Half of the vocal majority on this forum isint close to the people that dont even know what is going on on Live. Instead of mailing us polls on "what is the best thing we like about tradeskilling" and pointless stuff like that... Maybe you should ask for their feedback on stuff like this. It was a great idea with the mailing questions out, yet Sony managed to mess that up as well.... Really?</p><p>Dont nerf reforging... seriously, amazing bait and switch. Imagine how many upset people they are going to have, specially the ones that bought AoD JUST for reforging. You guys dont even know the clusterstuff you are going to create with GU63 + these random nerfs</p>

[Vinyard]

<p>Don't worry guys. I'm sure Windstalker would love to log into the forums more than once a week (if that) and grace us with her presence with a robust explanation as to why this is happening</p>

[Elskidor]

<p>Someone pop in and give an official word.</p>

[Deago]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would like an explanation...</p><p>THE ONLY REASON I GOT AOD was so I could get more Multiattack.</p><p>I HATE DUNGEON MAKER.</p><p>I HATE BEASTLORDS. (and pet classes.)</p><p>I HATE Everything else!</p></blockquote><p>Reminds me of Kefka off FF6/3.  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Shawy]

<p>Who's crazy idea was it to do this nerf!?  For real!? God damnit I need to stop spending my money on this game and just move on to the next one.</p><p>It's crazy just how much I regret prepaying for a year.  </p>

[Hirofortis]

<p>The more I read about the changes the more I am HATING SOE.  If this is what the new producer has in mind I wouldrather see Smokeblower back. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Elskidor]

<p><cite>Deago wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would like an explanation...</p><p>THE ONLY REASON I GOT AOD was so I could get more Multiattack.</p><p>I HATE DUNGEON MAKER.</p><p>I HATE BEASTLORDS. (and pet classes.)</p><p>I HATE Everything else!</p></blockquote><p>Reminds me of Kefka off FF6/3.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p><span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px;">Son of a Submariner! You'll pay for this!  Fire 3!!!!</span></p><p>Now that you devs are worn down..</p><p><span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px;">Life... Dreams... Hope...Reforging... Where do they come from? And where do they go...? Such meaningless things but... You destroyed them all! What? Wait, you have an explanation? WAIT? </span><span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px;">"Wait," he says... Do I look like a waiter?</span></p><p>CASTING ULTIMA!!!! <span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px;">Run! Run! Or you'll be well done!</span></p><p>Now go back and fix reforging and quit whining about your critics, y<span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px;">ou make me sick! You sound like lines from a self-help book! </span></p><p>/Kefka_Off</p>

[Kunaak]

<p>since thier autoloot nerf script is constantly pumping out crap gear thats worse then gear we already have.... we have to basically make the gear not junk with reforging.</p><p>now thats gone?</p><p>I wouldnt care so much, if they would just stop using a program to make gear thats worse then gear in easier zones. its ridiculous that gear in plane of war is all messed up and half of it you cant use without basically nerfing your toon in the process.</p><p>get someone to actually look over and design gear like in the past, instead of just auto accepting everything the loot script thing puts out without ever looking it over till we complain about it in game.</p>

[Tigerr]

This is what happens when the new clueless producer begins listening to the CLUELESS vocal few on the forums instead of thinking about ways to improve it themselves. SLR is gone because people complained about it for so long..... All these nerfs, just plain stupid..... I'd really love to see what happens when Windstalker keeps listening to the playerbase that logs in less than 2 times a week and complains about getting denied groups on their 20th alt because they straight out suck. Mobs will have 50 HP and die in 2 hits.. Might as well give us an ability to summon any piece of gear at will, seriously. Keep listening to the fails......

[Rageincarnate]

<p>/facepalm</p><p>I want to give soe alot of crap for this.  But i have seen quite a few posts of scouts complaining that they capped out on ma. </p><p>Sooooo, if they give more ma on gear scouts will complain.. In a odd way i can understand.  You guys have read the posts too.</p><p>Though .. fighters and melee priests aren't getting capped there sony.. nowhere close.  reforging was the only thing that was decent in aod..  i have a 90 beastlord..but he dinged 320 after a seb grind  and i lost interest.</p><p>Im hoping that this is due to the fact that there is going to be enough ma on the gear floating around and gives us something to "farm".</p>

[Geothe]

<p>who wants to bet that not a single red name will appear to justify this trashy move?</p>

[Triste-Lune]

I kinda miss Fyreflite and the time where there was a dev assign to design item instead of having a bot generating gear at random now.

[Shotneedle]

<p>I am a scout and I have some of the best gear obtainable in game. I am also not capped on MA.</p>

[Mathrim]

<p>This is just sad.</p><p>I've spent between 1200 pp to 1500pp buying pools rares.  Probably spent another 800 to 1000 buying EoW forearms for some of my toons.  Probably spent between 70 to 120 pp reforging to MA for my tanks/healers/scouts.</p><p>Spent quite a few hours farming pools for me and my wifes toons (14 90's between us), run a ton of Drunder's just for the rare neck, etc...</p><p>Hours and hours of game time pretty much invalidated and wasted if this goes live......</p><p>Sometimes I really wonder why I bother any more.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>I am not surprised by this change.  The values of the live conversions are too high when you think about it.  Sure, I love it the way it is cause of the rewards I get from it.</p><p>But logically, most of the things your refornging from have very little pay off with values over 200, where MA pays off well over 200, much over in fact.</p>

[Mathrim]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The values of the live conversions are too high when you think about it.  </p></blockquote><p>I will agree with you on this.  I was honestly shocked when I reforged a few items and was able to pickup 30 to 40 MA.  This doesn't change the fact that it has been this way for 3+ months now.  If this was such an issue, then Sony could have piped up at release and said, "Hey guys, don't waste time on this.  We are fxing this."</p><p>Or they could have just fixed the blasted conversion rate a week after AoD released.  This is something a responsible development team would have done.</p><p>My issue isn't with the conversion rate.  It's just this is just another in a long line of pathetic nerfs "after the fact" that this game is plagued with.</p><p>I'm tired of seeing people's hard work and effort rewarded with a slap in the face.  </p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Mathrim@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My issue isn't with the conversion rate.  It's just this is just another in a long line of pathetic nerfs "after the fact" that this game is plagued with.</p><p>I'm tired of seeing people's hard work and effort rewarded with a slap in the face.  </p></blockquote><p>Yes, this like many other changes would go over  better if they posted they were changing it and their reasoning behind changing it.</p><p>But communication is hard for SoE.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><p>I wanna know if this is also a secret change thats not intended.</p></p>

[Lyndro-EQ2]

<p>This is a bug, thanks for pointing it out, should be working as on live in the next test update.</p>

[Fitz]

Woot, thanks.

[Lethlian]

<p>Mr. Lyndro I greatly appreciate you coming by in the forum and mentioning this. I wish more of the devs would take your approach on community relations and answers. </p><p>Its amazing how just a simple one sentence reply (that gives a specific /not ambigous *answer* to a question the community has), can smoothe over a frustrated mob of posters (to include myself). I for one am happy and thank you for your simple approach and reply.</p><p>Respectfully,</p><p>Lethlian</p><p>edited for grammar</p>

[gourdon]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am not surprised by this change.  The values of the live conversions are too high when you think about it.  Sure, I love it the way it is cause of the rewards I get from it.</p><p>But logically, most of the things your refornging from have very little pay off with values over 200, where MA pays off well over 200, much over in fact.</p></blockquote><p>The real problem is that the developers erroneously equate the value of DPS and MA in the original itemization.</p>

[The_Cheeseman]

<p>No, the real problem was uncapping MA without adding a diminishing returns curve that was relevant to 95% of characters.</p>

[crackers_87]

<p><cite>Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is a bug, thanks for pointing it out, should be working as on live in the next test update.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks</p>

[Irgun]

<p>You overlooked aoe-melee - its still 25% less ~</p>

[Lethlian]

<p><cite>Irgin@Valor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You overlooked aoe-melee - its still 25% less ~</p></blockquote><p>Bumping this, as this portion of reforging still needs to be addressed please. As much as I'm thankful for the MA reforge rates being fixed, AOE reforge rates need to be fixed also.</p><p>Respectfully,</p><p>Lethlian</p>