Research Assistant Disparity [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Rijacki

03-21-2012, 12:54 PM

Yimway

03-21-2012, 01:02 PM

I thought research assistants got you masters, and tradeskill assistants got you recipes..

Banditman

03-21-2012, 04:55 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>Some classes got considerably more recipes than others. Provies, even with only the food/drink combos, had more than most and then the belts were added making them -the- most of all the classes.</blockquote>I realize that. I didn't think I needed to explain it very far in Tradeskill forums.Something needs to be adjusted so that each class has approximately the same amount of time invested to complete the recipe research for each tier.

Rijacki

03-21-2012, 05:48 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>Some classes got considerably more recipes than others. Provies, even with only the food/drink combos, had more than most and then the belts were added making them -the- most of all the classes.</blockquote>I realize that. I didn't think I needed to explain it very far in Tradeskill forums.Something needs to be adjusted so that each class has approximately the same amount of time invested to complete the recipe research for each tier.</blockquote>I was agreeing with you and giving the reason as well.Classes with more recipes shouldn't be given reduced time. It would be nice if the classes with sparse recipes are given more, but I'm not holding my breath.

Deveryn

03-21-2012, 06:22 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>Some classes got considerably more recipes than others. Provies, even with only the food/drink combos, had more than most and then the belts were added making them -the- most of all the classes.</blockquote>I realize that. I didn't think I needed to explain it very far in Tradeskill forums.Something needs to be adjusted so that each class has approximately the same amount of time invested to complete the recipe research for each tier.</blockquote>I was agreeing with you and giving the reason as well.Classes with more recipes shouldn't be given reduced time. It would be nice if the classes with sparse recipes are given more, but I'm not holding my breath.</blockquote>I don't want anything else, unless it fits into my class (Carpenter) properly.

kdmorse

03-21-2012, 07:36 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Something needs to be adjusted so that each class has approximately the same amount of time invested to complete the recipe research for each tier.</blockquote>Silly question.. why?No, serious question actually, in what way does it matter? What does it have a tangible effect on what Tier you're in?

Piinks-Naveh

03-21-2012, 08:50 PM

<cite>Ynnek@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Something needs to be adjusted so that each class has approximately the same amount of time invested to complete the recipe research for each tier.</blockquote>Silly question.. why?No, serious question actually, in what way does it matter? What does it have a tangible effect on what Tier you're in?</blockquote>its ugly.i have every single recipe done for most classes, but havent even started on all tiers for some. any time someone wants a weapon for an obscure tier i cant help.

Meirril

03-21-2012, 10:00 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is a huge disparity in overall time required between differing RA's that really needs to be corrected.For example, my Provisioner is STILL researching L90 recipes, while others of my 8 crafters are into the L70 recipes. It should really be far more equitable between the various classes.(I ignore the fluff L90 recipes on all crafters btw)</blockquote>The easiest and most fair way to "fix" the disparity is to make it to where each class gets the same number of recipes per tier. That would mean removing a few recipes from provisioner and moving them to say jeweler or one of the other less fortunate classes. Is that what your asking for?And what benifit would it convey to the much put upon provisioners? I wasn't aware that clearing teirs was a goal of crafters. If that is your goal...then why are you doing teir 9 and then 8? Teir 2 and then up would be faster. Please elaborate on your argument, this should be good.I think the goal is to be able to make desirable items. Provisioners have 12 unique desirable recipes per teir, as opposed to 4 or 8 for the other classes. Having to research longer to get more recipes is a small burden to bare. Trust me, I'd be very quick to share your burden with my alchemist, jeweler and other 4 recipe per teir classes.Oh to complain about abundence. I say just remove the fabled food recipes all together if there is going to be whining about "the problem all these recipes are causing me". There isn't anything fabled about making them now, why should they be that much better than the regular recipes? Without the food recipes, provisioners would be up with the leet classes like Alchemist who get 1 recipe per class.FYI: all the other classes have recipes ballanced on how many slots your product covers. Which is really funny when you consider that you can't use 2 of these items since they are Lore-Equip. So classes with 2 single slot recipes are fundamentally better off than classes with 1 recipe that covers 2 slots...since you can't equip 2 of that item anyways.

wullailhuit

03-22-2012, 04:40 AM

I don't understand the OPs argument either.....you get MORE recipes as a provi (for example) due to having food and drink , thats actually an ADVANTAGE , you can make more items than other people , it takes longer to research them all...so what? , would you rather have LESS items to make?I wouldn't , just finished researching all the food and drink , just started on the T9 belts etc....I have people waiting for them to be researched as a lot of provisioners went for the consumables first same as me.It's like complaining that someone gives you 1000-00 while everone else only gets 500-00 but you have to wait a few days more to get yours.

feldon30

03-22-2012, 07:54 AM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I thought research assistants got you masters, and tradeskill assistants got you recipes..</blockquote>Recipe Research Assistants. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Banditman

03-22-2012, 09:52 AM

I wouldn't mind having less recipes to research at all. I wouldn't mind if the provisioner recipes took less time. I would prefer that the time be equitable between the classes.It's pretty simple when you think about it. How many recipes you potentially have is utterly irrelevant if you havent researched them. For the provisioner, at the current rate, he will NEVER have all the recipes. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel on many of my other crafters, though even then, some are still more problematic than others.I can think of numerous solutions to correct the disparity, the simplest of which is to combine the research of food into four catagories per tier (STR, INT, WIS, AGI). Complete the research for "STR" and you get 2 recipes, 1 for food, 1 for drink. Just that simple change would go a long, long way toward evening out the current disparity.

Rijacki

03-22-2012, 11:35 AM

If you have researched something and others haven't, you may be able to make money off of the recipe(s) you know. When everyone had researched all of the recipes your class can, you can't make diddly off of the recipes since everyone can make them.Provies already have an advantage over every other class, you think they should get even more advantages?

Deveryn

03-22-2012, 03:21 PM

You can still make some money, even with everyone having the recipe. It's just a matter of being around to catch a request.

Piinks-Naveh

03-22-2012, 06:40 PM

weaponsmiths have 2.5 times as much research time as MOST other classes. 2.5 times. i dont mind things getting convoluted, but its annoying if there isnt a lore reason or conscious design choice. making them have 2.5 times as much to research seems arbitrary and ugly. I would prefer their research times to decrease or each research to contain 2 recipes. my weaponsmiths are way behind all my other crafters.

Mermut

03-22-2012, 07:06 PM

Xianthia

03-22-2012, 07:10 PM

<cite>Piinks-Naveh wrote:</cite><blockquote>weaponsmiths have 2.5 times as much research time as MOST other classes. 2.5 times. i dont mind things getting convoluted, but its annoying if there isnt a lore reason or conscious design choice. making them have 2.5 times as much to research seems arbitrary and ugly. I would prefer their research times to decrease or each research to contain 2 recipes. my weaponsmiths are way behind all my other crafters.</blockquote>Yes, my weaponsmith is on her last T9 item now... I thought she was on her last one a week ago but was wrong, once I claimed that recipe I realized there was still another one.... She's the most painful to get the recipes on, not sure why, just feels that way to me.I have multiple crafters of most of the other crafts so those recipes didn't seem as painful/tedious since I split the T9 tiers between them.I have to say, the daily is a chore (I know it's a choice to do <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) and not really fun in any way, especially for items that will only be sought after at random times or for any lowbie alts.In any case - not sure what the solution would be here, if for example provies got some sort of time reduction in their research and not other crafters that doesn't seem equitable. Nor is it to have some crafts (sage, carp, for example) be almost done with their research for most tiers and have say weaponsmiths just starting other tiers (speaking if you started with T9).(heh blah blah blah, not even sure where I was going with this, ty for reading <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )

Meirril

03-22-2012, 09:21 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>I wouldn't mind having less recipes to research at all. I wouldn't mind if the provisioner recipes took less time. I would prefer that the time be equitable between the classes.It's pretty simple when you think about it. How many recipes you potentially have is utterly irrelevant if you havent researched them. For the provisioner, at the current rate, he will NEVER have all the recipes. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel on many of my other crafters, though even then, some are still more problematic than others.I can think of numerous solutions to correct the disparity, the simplest of which is to combine the research of food into four catagories per tier (STR, INT, WIS, AGI). Complete the research for "STR" and you get 2 recipes, 1 for food, 1 for drink. Just that simple change would go a long, long way toward evening out the current disparity.</blockquote>Ok, I'll ask one more time. What is the benifit of provisioners taking the same amount of time as a 4 recipe tradeskill class to research 12 recipes and how is this in anyway fair to the 4 recipe classes? How do you propose to make up for that imballance?

Rijacki

03-23-2012, 12:49 AM

I can't help but think it was threads much like this, complaining over the disparity of thus and so crafting, that got the first pristine bonus removed from the game as a solution for the disparity in leveling.

wullailhuit

03-23-2012, 03:47 AM

<cite>Xianthia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Piinks-Naveh wrote:</cite><blockquote>weaponsmiths have 2.5 times as much research time as MOST other classes. 2.5 times. i dont mind things getting convoluted, but its annoying if there isnt a lore reason or conscious design choice. making them have 2.5 times as much to research seems arbitrary and ugly. I would prefer their research times to decrease or each research to contain 2 recipes. my weaponsmiths are way behind all my other crafters.</blockquote>Yes, my weaponsmith is on her last T9 item now... I thought she was on her last one a week ago but was wrong, once I claimed that recipe I realized there was still another one.... She's the most painful to get the recipes on, not sure why, just feels that way to me.I have multiple crafters of most of the other crafts so those recipes didn't seem as painful/tedious since I split the T9 tiers between them.I have to say, the daily is a chore (I know it's a choice to do <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> ) and not really fun in any way, especially for items that will only be sought after at random times or for any lowbie alts.In any case - not sure what the solution would be here, if for example provies got some sort of time reduction in their research and not other crafters that doesn't seem equitable. Nor is it to have some crafts (sage, carp, for example) be almost done with their research for most tiers and have say weaponsmiths just starting other tiers (speaking if you started with T9).(heh blah blah blah, not even sure where I was going with this, ty for reading <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> )</blockquote>You do know you can pre-make all the items? , then it's just 3 hails a day , max 30 seconds time per assistant, I just make 2 of each every 10 days in one sitting on each character.

wullailhuit

03-23-2012, 03:48 AM

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>I wouldn't mind having less recipes to research at all. I wouldn't mind if the provisioner recipes took less time. I would prefer that the time be equitable between the classes.It's pretty simple when you think about it. How many recipes you potentially have is utterly irrelevant if you havent researched them. For the provisioner, at the current rate, he will NEVER have all the recipes. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel on many of my other crafters, though even then, some are still more problematic than others.I can think of numerous solutions to correct the disparity, the simplest of which is to combine the research of food into four catagories per tier (STR, INT, WIS, AGI). Complete the research for "STR" and you get 2 recipes, 1 for food, 1 for drink. Just that simple change would go a long, long way toward evening out the current disparity.</blockquote>Ok, I'll ask one more time. What is the benifit of provisioners taking the same amount of time as a 4 recipe tradeskill class to research 12 recipes and how is this in anyway fair to the 4 recipe classes? How do you propose to make up for that imballance?</blockquote>The benefit is they get 4 times the items to make.

Rainmare

03-23-2012, 04:34 AM

heck as an armorer I would LOVE to have the rest of the armor sets. if for no other reason alone then that I coudl get that unique red glowy look in a full suit. not to mention how nice the stuff is.but your basically complaining that you can't finish out a tier fast enough to make big money off what you can make, it sounds like. unless there's something special about finishing out a tier? some advantage it gives the researcher for other recipes, or some other bonus or crafting benifit?

feldon30

03-23-2012, 07:20 AM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can't help but think it was threads much like this, complaining over the disparity of thus and so crafting, that got the first pristine bonus removed from the game as a solution for the disparity in leveling.</blockquote>Probably so. Some player feedback is detrimental to the game.

Deveryn

03-23-2012, 12:30 PM

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can't help but think it was threads much like this, complaining over the disparity of thus and so crafting, that got the first pristine bonus removed from the game as a solution for the disparity in leveling.</blockquote>Probably so. Some player feedback is detrimental to the game.</blockquote>Stop acting like it made things take longer for everyone, because it actually improved the speed of leveling for everyone. It was a legitimate problem. If anything was actually detrimental, it was the distribution of armor across all the classes, but we've covered that one enough.

Gwyrdd

03-23-2012, 12:38 PM

This entire "issue" seems silly to me. We can all prioritize what recipes we are most likely to want, and research them first, and move on down the list as they complete. Whether our crafters are "done with a tier" or not is irrelevant as far as I know. If we want something made from a recipe we haven't researched, we can look for someone else who has or research it next (assuming we have the correct class available). If someone else wants something we haven't researched yet, oh well. They, too, can look for someone else.Is this a problem because one cannot "have it all" all at once? I do not understand the problem.

Xianthia

03-23-2012, 01:37 PM

<cite>Wullailduo@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>You do know you can pre-make all the items? , then it's just 3 hails a day , max 30 seconds time per assistant, I just make 2 of each every 10 days in one sitting on each character.</blockquote>Yes, of course I know the items can be pre-done and and most of my crafters I pre-make a couple of weeks worth of items at a time. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Deveryn

03-23-2012, 03:52 PM

<cite>Gwyrdd@Unrest_old wrote:</cite><blockquote>This entire "issue" seems silly to me. We can all prioritize what recipes we are most likely to want, and research them first, and move on down the list as they complete. Whether our crafters are "done with a tier" or not is irrelevant as far as I know. If we want something made from a recipe we haven't researched, we can look for someone else who has or research it next (assuming we have the correct class available). If someone else wants something we haven't researched yet, oh well. They, too, can look for someone else.Is this a problem because one cannot "have it all" all at once? I do not understand the problem.</blockquote>It is silly. In fact, if you go back a few pages on this forum and find comments from around this time last year, you'll find people complaining that weaponsmiths and others have nothing worth making / selling. SOE gives them more (plus some nice random rewards) and now it's too much. There's no pleasing some people.

Onorem

03-23-2012, 08:42 PM

<cite>Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gwyrdd@Unrest_old wrote:</cite><blockquote>This entire "issue" seems silly to me. We can all prioritize what recipes we are most likely to want, and research them first, and move on down the list as they complete. Whether our crafters are "done with a tier" or not is irrelevant as far as I know. If we want something made from a recipe we haven't researched, we can look for someone else who has or research it next (assuming we have the correct class available). If someone else wants something we haven't researched yet, oh well. They, too, can look for someone else.Is this a problem because one cannot "have it all" all at once? I do not understand the problem.</blockquote>It is silly. In fact, if you go back a few pages on this forum and find comments from around this time last year, you'll find people complaining that weaponsmiths and others have nothing worth making / selling. SOE gives them more (plus some nice random rewards) and now it's too much. There's no pleasing some people.</blockquote>Meh. Weaponsmiths still have little worth making/selling. Having more recipes doesn't mean they have more to sell.

Deveryn

03-23-2012, 09:23 PM

<cite>Onorem wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gwyrdd@Unrest_old wrote:</cite><blockquote>This entire "issue" seems silly to me. We can all prioritize what recipes we are most likely to want, and research them first, and move on down the list as they complete. Whether our crafters are "done with a tier" or not is irrelevant as far as I know. If we want something made from a recipe we haven't researched, we can look for someone else who has or research it next (assuming we have the correct class available). If someone else wants something we haven't researched yet, oh well. They, too, can look for someone else.Is this a problem because one cannot "have it all" all at once? I do not understand the problem.</blockquote>It is silly. In fact, if you go back a few pages on this forum and find comments from around this time last year, you'll find people complaining that weaponsmiths and others have nothing worth making / selling. SOE gives them more (plus some nice random rewards) and now it's too much. There's no pleasing some people.</blockquote>Meh. Weaponsmiths still have little worth making/selling. Having more recipes doesn't mean they have more to sell.</blockquote>If you say so. Many of the reactant requests I've spotted have been for weapons. Someone's profiting more than they used to.

Meirril

03-25-2012, 05:28 AM

<cite>Onorem wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gwyrdd@Unrest_old wrote:</cite><blockquote>This entire "issue" seems silly to me. We can all prioritize what recipes we are most likely to want, and research them first, and move on down the list as they complete. Whether our crafters are "done with a tier" or not is irrelevant as far as I know. If we want something made from a recipe we haven't researched, we can look for someone else who has or research it next (assuming we have the correct class available). If someone else wants something we haven't researched yet, oh well. They, too, can look for someone else.Is this a problem because one cannot "have it all" all at once? I do not understand the problem.</blockquote>It is silly. In fact, if you go back a few pages on this forum and find comments from around this time last year, you'll find people complaining that weaponsmiths and others have nothing worth making / selling. SOE gives them more (plus some nice random rewards) and now it's too much. There's no pleasing some people.</blockquote>Meh. Weaponsmiths still have little worth making/selling. Having more recipes doesn't mean they have more to sell.</blockquote>I'm slowly leveling a beastlord. I bother to buy reactant weapons because they are that good. Will I shell out for 90 weapons? No, I'll have the epic fabled weapons which are perty good. But that means I'll be buying a lot of weaponsmith made items.If you look at crafting we're all about providing the equipment to get to the top level, not the top level gear.

worm22

03-30-2012, 10:38 AM

I think my head just asploded ... Is this really asking that classes that have MORE ITEMS they can make be able to research them quicker?

Trebien

04-16-2012, 04:11 PM

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is a huge disparity in overall time required between differing RA's that really needs to be corrected.For example, my Provisioner is STILL researching L90 recipes, while others of my 8 crafters are into the L70 recipes. It should really be far more equitable between the various classes.(I ignore the fluff L90 recipes on all crafters btw)</blockquote>The easiest and most fair way to "fix" the disparity is to make it to where each class gets the same number of recipes per tier. That would mean removing a few recipes from provisioner and moving them to say jeweler or one of the other less fortunate classes. Is that what your asking for?And what benifit would it convey to the much put upon provisioners? I wasn't aware that clearing teirs was a goal of crafters. If that is your goal...then why are you doing teir 9 and then 8? Teir 2 and then up would be faster. Please elaborate on your argument, this should be good.I think the goal is to be able to make desirable items. Provisioners have 12 unique desirable recipes per teir, as opposed to 4 or 8 for the other classes. Having to research longer to get more recipes is a small burden to bare. Trust me, I'd be very quick to share your burden with my alchemist, jeweler and other 4 recipe per teir classes.Oh to complain about abundence. I say just remove the fabled food recipes all together if there is going to be whining about "the problem all these recipes are causing me". There isn't anything fabled about making them now, why should they be that much better than the regular recipes? Without the food recipes, provisioners would be up with the leet classes like Alchemist who get 1 recipe per class.FYI: all the other classes have recipes ballanced on how many slots your product covers. Which is really funny when you consider that you can't use 2 of these items since they are Lore-Equip. So classes with 2 single slot recipes are fundamentally better off than classes with 1 recipe that covers 2 slots...since you can't equip 2 of that item anyways.</blockquote>You could always quit t9 recipes, and go through the lower tier ones, which go by much quicker. Then you would eventually get the t9, which most people have already researched, and you will have been able to help those who otherwise wouldn't have access to the lower tier items.

Deveryn

04-16-2012, 06:54 PM

<cite>Trebien@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is a huge disparity in overall time required between differing RA's that really needs to be corrected.For example, my Provisioner is STILL researching L90 recipes, while others of my 8 crafters are into the L70 recipes. It should really be far more equitable between the various classes.(I ignore the fluff L90 recipes on all crafters btw)</blockquote>The easiest and most fair way to "fix" the disparity is to make it to where each class gets the same number of recipes per tier. That would mean removing a few recipes from provisioner and moving them to say jeweler or one of the other less fortunate classes. Is that what your asking for?And what benifit would it convey to the much put upon provisioners? I wasn't aware that clearing teirs was a goal of crafters. If that is your goal...then why are you doing teir 9 and then 8? Teir 2 and then up would be faster. Please elaborate on your argument, this should be good.I think the goal is to be able to make desirable items. Provisioners have 12 unique desirable recipes per teir, as opposed to 4 or 8 for the other classes. Having to research longer to get more recipes is a small burden to bare. Trust me, I'd be very quick to share your burden with my alchemist, jeweler and other 4 recipe per teir classes.Oh to complain about abundence. I say just remove the fabled food recipes all together if there is going to be whining about "the problem all these recipes are causing me". There isn't anything fabled about making them now, why should they be that much better than the regular recipes? Without the food recipes, provisioners would be up with the leet classes like Alchemist who get 1 recipe per class.FYI: all the other classes have recipes ballanced on how many slots your product covers. Which is really funny when you consider that you can't use 2 of these items since they are Lore-Equip. So classes with 2 single slot recipes are fundamentally better off than classes with 1 recipe that covers 2 slots...since you can't equip 2 of that item anyways.</blockquote>You could always quit t9 recipes, and go through the lower tier ones, which go by much quicker. Then you would eventually get the t9, which most people have already researched, and you will have been able to help those who otherwise wouldn't have access to the lower tier items.</blockquote>^ This is what I did. Everyone was obviously going for T9 from the start, so I got T9 recipes for my top two characters and moved down to another tier. It's not often that people ask, but there are people looking for lower tier gear.