Testers Only -- Fully Visible

[DocFlareon]

<p>The flag for Testers Only is not working.  While I do have a character on Test (Varzyk, Sarnak wizzy: Heroes of Test), I did not have access to this forum until yesterday.  Strange thing is, when I visit the forums using a browser that had never previously accessed the forums, I could see Testers Only as a guest.</p><p>(EDIT: Corrected mistyped word. ("to" for "the"))</p>

[Soresha]

<p>Yeah I PMed Piestro about this yesterday, no response yet (well it is a weekend). But it seems the forum permissions were disrupted when they moved us under the Development Corner.</p><p>Since you play on Test server (and I've probably said hello to you in HoT at some point!) you can PM Piestro and ask to be flagged as such, it'll turn your name pale blue and give you access to this server forum (once they restore the permissions).</p><p>And to everyone straying in here by accident in the meantime: this is really NOT the place to post your feedback or questions about GU63. Please keep it all in one place to help our devs, under the In Testing Feedback forum. And add to the key threads which already exist if it's quest, zone or NPC art related. This place is more like a cross between a multi-guild/community forum and somewhere to shout "omg you broke Test server again - plz fix". <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Thanks.</p>

[Skeez1e]

<p>Maybe they finally did the math and realized most of the people on the 'approved' list didn't play on Test anyways! </p><p>It was always considered a perq - for those actually playing on the server (as opposed to tourists who stop in to see the new sights) - wasn't much but, still, it was something.  Maybe a good time to make a new forum with a new/different set of requirements to get access?</p>

[Piestro]

<p>Hey folks,</p><p>Since I've been Community Manager, I've gotten a fair number of Private Messages about getting access to the Tester's Only forum. After speaking with a number of former CRM's for EQII, I came to the understanding that this forum was de facto public. We would simply grant access to this forum to whomever asked.</p><p>As such, spending 20 or 30 minutes a week granting access to this forum served no useful purpose. A better solution was to make it public, since it was effectively already public (with the caveat that access had to be requested).</p><p>Now that this is the case, people have pointed out that one of the main reasons they would like to keep the forum private was to cut down on potential trolling. We can certainly understand and sympathize with this concern. The best way to deal with any potential trolling in this subforum is to use the report a post feature. If people are trolling, or threads are mistakenly posted here that should be in the general "In Testing" subform simply report the post and we'll take care of it. That's a better solution to trolling anyways. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Please let us know if you have any other concerns, we'll be happy to take a look and see what we can do.</p><p>Thanks,</p>

[Cyliena]

<p><cite>Piestro wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hey folks,</p><p>Since I've been Community Manager, I've gotten a fair number of Private Messages about getting access to the Tester's Only forum. After speaking with a number of former CRM's for EQII, I came to the understanding that this forum was de facto public. We would simply grant access to this forum to whomever asked.</p><p>As such, spending 20 or 30 minutes a week granting access to this forum served no useful purpose. A better solution was to make it public, since it was effectively already public (with the caveat that access had to be requested).</p><p>Now that this is the case, people have pointed out that one of the main reasons they would like to keep the forum private was to cut down on potential trolling. We can certainly understand and sympathize with this concern. The best way to deal with any potential trolling in this subforum is to use the report a post feature. If people are trolling, or threads are mistakenly posted here that should be in the general "In Testing" subform simply report the post and we'll take care of it. That's a better solution to trolling anyways. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Please let us know if you have any other concerns, we'll be happy to take a look and see what we can do.</p><p>Thanks,</p></blockquote><p>My only annoyance with it being public at this point is that people are posting issues here that should be in the In Testing forum.</p>

[Piestro]

<p><cite>Cyliena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p>My only annoyance with it being public at this point is that people are posting issues here that should be in the In Testing forum.</p></blockquote><p>Please report them with that fact. It's very easy for us to move threads.</p>

[Cloudrat]

<p>Spin it however you like, but my gut reaction is here is one more thing you don't have time for that made being a  tester feel as if we were actually part of the process.  Permission was not granted to just anyone in the past, so I am not sure why you believe this was de facto public.</p>

[Tigress]

<p>i used to play on test all the time and only quit after learning & accepting that the /bug reports were ignored.  i didn't know that there was a special forum that i should have asked for permission to gain access.  i'm glad to see the forum open bc it gives me hope that the test server will become a viable server and useful to the game again.  ty.</p>

[Whilhelmina]

<p><cite>Piestro wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hey folks,</p><p>Since I've been Community Manager, I've gotten a fair number of Private Messages about getting access to the Tester's Only forum. After speaking with a number of former CRM's for EQII, I came to the understanding that this forum was de facto public. We would simply grant access to this forum to whomever asked.</p><p>As such, spending 20 or 30 minutes a week granting access to this forum served no useful purpose. A better solution was to make it public, since it was effectively already public (with the caveat that access had to be requested).</p><p>Now that this is the case, people have pointed out that one of the main reasons they would like to keep the forum private was to cut down on potential trolling. We can certainly understand and sympathize with this concern. The best way to deal with any potential trolling in this subforum is to use the report a post feature. If people are trolling, or threads are mistakenly posted here that should be in the general "In Testing" subform simply report the post and we'll take care of it. That's a better solution to trolling anyways. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Please let us know if you have any other concerns, we'll be happy to take a look and see what we can do.</p><p>Thanks,</p></blockquote><p>Asking us nicely if we wanted or not for the forum to be public would have been nice perhaps? Oops, sorry, spoke of "SoE" and "Nice" in same sentance *rolls eyes*</p><p>This place was a part for us, our little testing community, to speak to each other, tell what we could do, what were our pretty specific problems, to organize and to chat, apart from the main stream of players and all the tourists that come to test twice a year for half an hour because they want a sneak peak.</p><p>After being ignored by community since Kiara left, ignored devs, getting insulted by SJ , now our dwindling community is loosing it's last private place where we could interract with each other on this board. It makes me sad.</p>

[Eshaac]

<p>hhmm, Not really sure how to put this, but here goes.  I think it is more a matter of not wanting to bother checking to see if in fact the person/persons wanting access to this forum are actually test players and not just casual visitors.  When I first was granted access by "<span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>Kiara</strong></span>" to this forum you had to be someone that actually played on test and not just once in a blue moon.  Those that do actually play on test more than a couple times or so a month.</p><p>Is it really that hard to do?  Give me rights to check them and I'll be happy to check.  I play on test every, "EVERY" single day and I can pretty much see who is and who is not a regular tester.  This forum was where we could check with each other on what doesn't seem to be working for us and if it is also happening to others who are not on at the same time we are without having to scroll through a bunch of <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>unnecessary</strong></span> posts.</p><p>Maybe another approach would be to make this forum so that only those that actually play/test on test server are able to post in this forum.  Making it easier for us to do what we do and allowing others the ability to see what problems you all are working on before whatever goes to live.</p><p>Anyway, just my pennies worth</p><p>Eshaac</p>

[tkia]

<p><cite>Piestro wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As such, spending 20 or 30 minutes a week granting access to this forum served no useful purpose.</p></blockquote><p>Is spending 20 or 30 minutes a week making your testers feel appreciated really too much effort these days?  Testers, you know, the people that give up their own time to test your stuff for FREE for you?  And we keep getting asked why more people won't come and test stuff ...</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>tkia wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Piestro wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As such, spending 20 or 30 minutes a week granting access to this forum served no useful purpose.</p></blockquote><p>Is spending 20 or 30 minutes a week making your testers feel appreciated really too much effort these days?  Testers, you know, the people that give up their own time to test your stuff for FREE for you?  And we keep getting asked why more people won't come and test stuff ...</p></blockquote><p>The goal appears to be to encourage the regular playbase to be more engaged in test_copy, I'm not sure how much value they still find in the legacy test community given their current drive / attitude.</p><p>I'm still waiting to see how well they respond to all the feedback they're getting as a result of this push.  If GU63 launches without glairingly bad things that were pointed out in testing forums, then perhaps this new method has merrit.  But for now, the jury is still out.  Given how it looks like CM removal is going live tomorrow without addressing the problems they created with it, well, yeah its all business as usual.</p><p>Honestly, with the push for communication to only be in one place, I'm surprised they're keeping this forum around.</p>

[Soresha]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>tkia wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Piestro wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As such, spending 20 or 30 minutes a week granting access to this forum served no useful purpose.</p></blockquote><p>Is spending 20 or 30 minutes a week making your testers feel appreciated really too much effort these days?  Testers, you know, the people that give up their own time to test your stuff for FREE for you?  And we keep getting asked why more people won't come and test stuff ...</p></blockquote><p>The goal appears to be to encourage the regular playbase to be more engaged in test_copy, I'm not sure how much value they still find in the legacy test community given their current drive / attitude.</p><p>I'm still waiting to see how well they respond to all the feedback they're getting as a result of this push.  If GU63 launches without glairingly bad things that were pointed out in testing forums, then perhaps this new method has merrit.  But for now, the jury is still out.  Given how it looks like CM removal is going live tomorrow without addressing the problems they created with it, well, yeah its all business as usual.</p><p>Honestly, with the push for communication to only be in one place, I'm surprised they're keeping this forum around.</p></blockquote><p>To repeat myself, this is NOT a forum for feedback.</p><p>The forum description clearly says:</p><p><strong><span >A forum for people who actually play on Test server. This forum is for discussions specific to the Test server community, not general testing. </span></strong></p><p>And if SOE don't have any use for regular player-testers on a Test server any more, and won't support our community, then just put us out of our misery.</p>

[Raknid]

<p><cite>Soresha wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>tkia wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Piestro wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As such, spending 20 or 30 minutes a week granting access to this forum served no useful purpose.</p></blockquote><p>Is spending 20 or 30 minutes a week making your testers feel appreciated really too much effort these days?  Testers, you know, the people that give up their own time to test your stuff for FREE for you?  And we keep getting asked why more people won't come and test stuff ...</p></blockquote><p>The goal appears to be to encourage the regular playbase to be more engaged in test_copy, I'm not sure how much value they still find in the legacy test community given their current drive / attitude.</p><p>I'm still waiting to see how well they respond to all the feedback they're getting as a result of this push.  If GU63 launches without glairingly bad things that were pointed out in testing forums, then perhaps this new method has merrit.  But for now, the jury is still out.  Given how it looks like CM removal is going live tomorrow without addressing the problems they created with it, well, yeah its all business as usual.</p><p>Honestly, with the push for communication to only be in one place, I'm surprised they're keeping this forum around.</p></blockquote><p>To repeat myself, this is NOT a forum for feedback.</p><p>The forum description clearly says:</p><p><strong><span>A forum for people who actually play on Test server. This forum is for discussions specific to the Test server community, not general testing. </span></strong></p><p>And if SOE don't have any use for regular player-testers on a Test server any more, and won't support our community, then just put us out of our misery.</p></blockquote><p>No other server has it's own forum....just saying.</p>

[Whilhelmina]

<p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No other server has it's own forum....just saying.</p></blockquote><p>*points at Storms, Valor and the late Innovation forums*</p><p>It's not really the same thing anyway. We're speaking of a very low population server, in a difficult playing conditions (this GU is the first GU in years that doesn't breaks everything around). Having this board allowed us to keep track of who could make what item, of when a group was shedulded, of who is whom, of what bugs are curently crashing the game, of what exploits we found that should be corrected but shouldn't be mentionned on an open channel (like the very nice bug with the crafted charm that allowed to level transmuting 1-450 in a couple of hours of craft grinding).</p>

[Tigress]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>tkia wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Piestro wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As such, spending 20 or 30 minutes a week granting access to this forum served no useful purpose.</p></blockquote><p>Is spending 20 or 30 minutes a week making your testers feel appreciated really too much effort these days?  Testers, you know, the people that give up their own time to test your stuff for FREE for you?  And we keep getting asked why more people won't come and test stuff ...</p></blockquote><p>The goal appears to be to encourage the regular playbase to be more engaged in test_copy, I'm not sure how much value they still find in the legacy test community given their current drive / attitude.</p><p>I'm still waiting to see how well they respond to all the feedback they're getting as a result of this push.  If GU63 launches without glairingly bad things that were pointed out in testing forums, then perhaps this new method has merrit.  But for now, the jury is still out.  Given how it looks like CM removal is going live tomorrow without addressing the problems they created with it, well, yeah its all business as usual.</p><p>Honestly, with the push for communication to only be in one place, I'm surprised they're keeping this forum around.</p></blockquote><p>RE:  (WAITING TO SEE.) </p><p>me too.  like i said before, i quit playing test bc everything that was /bug or /feedback was always ignored.  there just wasn't any point to being on test.  i used to play regularly but felt that i was wasting my time, the server became empty and my guild that was very active when i joined is a ghosttown.  there was no point of testing bc we were all ignored.  many ppl left bc what was the point of being there?  this update is the test for me to see if its worth it for me to go back to test or not.</p>

[Raknid]

<p><cite>Whilhelmina@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No other server has it's own forum....just saying.</p></blockquote><p>*points at Storms, Valor and the late Innovation forums*</p></blockquote><p>THose are different language duplicates of these forums. There isn't a "Storms Server" forum or "Valor Server" forum like there used to be here for each of the English(language) servers is there?</p>

[Whilhelmina]

<p>Yes, there is even if it's not really relevant anymore as there's only 1 server per language</p><p>For French section, we have:* "PVP" which was for the late Gorenaire Server (French PVP): <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/forums/show.m?forum_id=2503" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...m?forum_id=2503</a>* "Storms (French Language Server)et Storms-marché" which was for Storms proper</p><p>In German section there is:* Valor section: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/forums/show.m?forum_id=310" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/....m?forum_id=310</a>* late Innovation section: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/forums/show.m?forum_id=431" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/....m?forum_id=431</a>* a PVP section that was probably used for the late german PVP server (Venekor?): <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/forums/show.m?forum_id=2496" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...m?forum_id=2496</a></p><p>Can't tell for Japanese as I can't understand it but it's probably that one for Sebilis: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/forums/show.m?forum_id=2543" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...m?forum_id=2543</a></p><p>Time to go back to the separate <a href="http://eq2test.com" target="_blank">Test board</a> I suppose.</p>

[feldon30]

<p><cite>Piestro wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>After speaking with a number of former CRM's for EQII, I came to the understanding that this forum was de facto public. We would simply grant access to this forum to whomever asked.<p>As such, spending 20 or 30 minutes a week granting access to this forum served no useful purpose. A better solution was to make it public, since it was effectively already public (with the caveat that access had to be requested).</p></blockquote><p>Every year, there's an expansion, and as such there's a Beta NDA forum. Since everyone already knows that such a forum exists, it is <em>de facto public</em>. Looking forward to Beta being an open/public forum this year.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Every year, there's an expansion, and as such there's a Beta NDA forum. Since everyone already knows that such a forum exists, it is <em>de facto public</em>. Looking forward to Beta being an open/public forum this year.</p></blockquote><p>See GU63 and the test forums <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Its pretty much an open beta on what is close to what compromises an 'expansion' in today's game.</p>

[Piestro]

<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Piestro wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>After speaking with a number of former CRM's for EQII, I came to the understanding that this forum was de facto public. We would simply grant access to this forum to whomever asked.<p>As such, spending 20 or 30 minutes a week granting access to this forum served no useful purpose. A better solution was to make it public, since it was effectively already public (with the caveat that access had to be requested).</p></blockquote><p>Every year, there's an expansion, and as such there's a Beta NDA forum. Since everyone already knows that such a forum exists, it is <em>de facto public</em>. Looking forward to Beta being an open/public forum this year.</p></blockquote><p>There's a difference between "everyone knows they exist" and "anyone can get in by asking". The "Testers Only" forum has been in the later state for quite some time.</p><p><p><cite>Whilhelmina@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's not really the same thing anyway. We're speaking of a very low population server, in a difficult playing conditions (this GU is the first GU in years that doesn't breaks everything around). Having this board allowed us to keep track of who could make what item, of when a group was shedulded, of who is whom, of what bugs are curently crashing the game, of what exploits we found that should be corrected but shouldn't be mentionned on an open channel (like the very nice bug with the crafted charm that allowed to level transmuting 1-450 in a couple of hours of craft grinding).</p></blockquote>Having the forum visible should actually allow more participation from those who weren't aware of its existence but still played on test. With the exception of openly discussing exploits these functions should in large be improved by having the forums be open.</p>

[Whilhelmina]

<p>Well, I'm pretty sure you poor mods already had way more job with this board than the poor "20-30 minutes of your precious time" it took. Thanks for telling us we have absolutely no respect nor understanding for us, sir, and have a very nice day (with 20-30 minutes more of your time).</p>

[Cloudrat]

<p><cite>Whilhelmina@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well, I'm pretty sure you poor mods already had way more job with this board than the poor "20-30 minutes of your precious time" it took. Thanks for telling us we have absolutely no respect nor understanding for us, sir, and have a very nice day (with 20-30 minutes more of your time).</p></blockquote><p>I agree that the recent changes in hierarchy has resulted in some who have little understanding of how the test server and it's inhabitants work.</p><p>And as far as I remember  access was not handed out to just anyone who asked for it, there are many who told me they asked and didn't get it , long before the new guy decided it was too much trouble.</p>

[Raknid]

<p><cite>Whilhelmina@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Thanks for telling us we have absolutely no respect nor understanding for us</p></blockquote><p>With the exception of the foreign language servers no other server even has a forum of their own.</p><p>I am not quite sure I understand how you can be so miffed. The server forum is still here, and by all indications it will stay, so how does simply having it visible consitute "no respect nor understanding?"</p><p>They are just treating you all like they did everyone else in the game...before they took our server forums away that is. At least you still have yours.</p><p>As Piestro said, they will move/delete/mod things that aren't appropriate, so I doubt very seriously that things are going to change all that much.</p><p>Besides, maybe having it visisble will encourage more participation. Given the limited population, there may not be enough people to run different bugs through different routines. Say there is an SK bug...maybe it affects only a certain AA...or maybe it affects only certain abilities... How many different SKs are there on test to try to reproduce it? Maybe someone sees a post here then logs onto to test or test copy and tries to repro it. That can only help right, and that is what you are there for?</p><p>Back a long time ago there was a forum for players that was only visible after a certain length of time. They ixnayed that forum. At least you all get to keep yours.</p>

[Piestro]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=515335&post_id=5734683" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=51533...post_id=5734683</a> Trolling

[Te'ana]

<p>As far as I know, this was the only server specific forum that was super secret. I believe anyone can go to the foreign language forums and post there if they can understand the language well enough to do so.</p><p>When I got access to this forum you had to post your interest on a 3rd party web site to get on the list for approval to access to this forum. I believe that was not a good thing to do because it gave off elitist vibes to the rest of the EQ2 community.</p><p>I understand the interest in feeling special, which is part of why so many folks like getting an early Beta invite. It is human nature to feel that way, but IMHO it is not really good for the game to have a 'secret society' for testers.</p>

[Piestro]

<p>I do agree that the better way of handling this would be for me to have posted and let people know that the change was going to happen. Unfortunately I have severe time constraints, and chose not to do so because that would have delayed making these changes for at least a week or two. For that you have my apologies.</p><p>I felt, after consulting with a number of parties, that this was the better choice. Currently there are many people playing on test, because of the GU 63 content. This represents an opportunity to recruit and retain people who are currently testing, and allowing them to see the community that exists on tests increases the potential of this opportunity. While we may respectfully disagree on the reasons for this choice, no disrespect to the test community was intended.</p>

[Mermut]

<p><cite>Piestro wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do agree that the better way of handling this would be for me to have posted and let people know that the change was going to happen. Unfortunately I have severe time constraints, and chose not to do so because that would have delayed making these changes for at least a week or two. For that you have my apologies.</p><p>I felt, after consulting with a number of parties, that this was the better choice. Currently there are many people playing on test, because of the GU 63 content. This represents an opportunity to recruit and retain people who are currently testing, and allowing them to see the community that exists on tests increases the potential of this opportunity. While we may respectfully disagree on the reasons for this choice, no disrespect to the test community was intended.</p></blockquote><p>Quick question.. when you say lots of people playing on test, do you mean test or test_copy? They are two very distinct servers with a different community. Test_copy has a very transient population where people tend not to feel much attachment because the server can be wiped at any time. On test, people tend to play there regularly and the only way to get a toon there is to make it there and level it up manually, no buffers, no gear merchants, etc. I agree that the game would be well served by a bigger population on test (not test_copy) but all the push seems to be for players to go to test_copy.</p>

[Piestro]

<p><cite>Mermut wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Piestro wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do agree that the better way of handling this would be for me to have posted and let people know that the change was going to happen. Unfortunately I have severe time constraints, and chose not to do so because that would have delayed making these changes for at least a week or two. For that you have my apologies.</p><p>I felt, after consulting with a number of parties, that this was the better choice. Currently there are many people playing on test, because of the GU 63 content. This represents an opportunity to recruit and retain people who are currently testing, and allowing them to see the community that exists on tests increases the potential of this opportunity. While we may respectfully disagree on the reasons for this choice, no disrespect to the test community was intended.</p></blockquote><p>Quick question.. when you say lots of people playing on test, do you mean test or test_copy? They are two very distinct servers with a different community. Test_copy has a very transient population where people tend not to feel much attachment because the server can be wiped at any time. On test, people tend to play there regularly and the only way to get a toon there is to make it there and level it up manually, no buffers, no gear merchants, etc. I agree that the game would be well served by a bigger population on test (not test_copy) but all the push seems to be for players to go to test_copy.</p></blockquote><p>I'm making the assumption that some players have chosen to go to test rather than test_copy. I have not been monitoring the server populations extensively. People who have played on test before, etc. might be more likely to go to test than test_copy. </p>

[Whilhelmina]

<p>There was another reason for this flag (and we usually advertised to Test players at that time): picking Testers for early access in beta. This was done up to SF (under Kiara), lapsed for TSO & Velious but Domino made a big push for it on AoD beta and all flagged Testers go a Friend & Family access to beta.</p><p>This was for a reason that I'll put bluntly: full-time Testers are used to bugs and, when seeing a bug, will document it, try to reproduce it, find workarounds and advertise game-crashing bugs (for exemple: don't ever pay your rent until next patch or you'll crash the server). Players wanting to just have a sight of the next candy will whine and just say "game crashes it sucks". Of course it doesn't mean that all players that don't play on Test do that or that Test players never whine, it was a generic comment. In AoD beta there was a player from Nagafen who did an amazing job at testing reforging and high end mechanics. But I'm pretty sure the reason why there were so few bugs in Beastlord levelling and Freeport quests was because flagged testers made it to beta early, thanks to Domino.</p><p>Another point is that Testers are usually used to search for the quest updates without just looking at ZAM or Wikia because it's just not in yet. The number of players reaching Beta and just asking "where is X mob for Y quest?" then "can't find X mob for Y quest, can I have the loc", and then "can't find mob Z for Y quest" is incredibly high, leading some of us to just create macros and spam them all the time to cut down the questions. It's mind numbing.</p>

[Piestro]

<p><cite>Whilhelmina@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There was another reason for this flag (and we usually advertised to Test players at that time): picking Testers for early access in beta. This was done up to SF (under Kiara), lapsed for TSO & Velious but Domino made a big push for it on AoD beta and all flagged Testers go a Friend & Family access to beta.</p><p>This was for a reason that I'll put bluntly: full-time Testers are used to bugs and, when seeing a bug, will document it, try to reproduce it, find workarounds and advertise game-crashing bugs (for exemple: don't ever pay your rent until next patch or you'll crash the server). Players wanting to just have a sight of the next candy will whine and just say "game crashes it sucks". Of course it doesn't mean that all players that don't play on Test do that or that Test players never whine, it was a generic comment. In AoD beta there was a player from Nagafen who did an amazing job at testing reforging and high end mechanics. But I'm pretty sure the reason why there were so few bugs in Beastlord levelling and Freeport quests was because flagged testers made it to beta early, thanks to Domino.</p><p>Another point is that Testers are usually used to search for the quest updates without just looking at ZAM or Wikia because it's just not in yet. The number of players reaching Beta and just asking "where is X mob for Y quest?" then "can't find X mob for Y quest, can I have the loc", and then "can't find mob Z for Y quest" is incredibly high, leading some of us to just create macros and spam them all the time to cut down the questions. It's mind numbing.</p></blockquote><p>I have yet to do a Beta with the EQ2 team, however Community usually can make reccomendations for inclusion. I'll keep both the Beta community and those who frequently post bugs in mind (although of course I can't make any promises).</p>

[Therendil]

<p>I am playing on Test Copy now for this run, but my main focus has been on Test, where I have had characters since I started playing EQ2 in 2008. It is much harder to gain any ground on Test than it is to play a copied character on Test Copy, but to me at least, Test is a real, permanent server, and Test Copy is a disposable sandbox that can be wiped as needed.</p><p>I am reconsidering my play on Test these days because I am becoming more and more convinced that SOE management does not know and does not care about the resource they have in the permanent community on Test. If you want coherent and useful bug reports and feedback, you have a far better chance of getting what you want from an experienced and knowledgable group who are committed to helping make a better game, and you get that on Test. And if you want grizzled veterans to tackle the chaos of a first-round beta, that's where you look for your shock troops.</p><p>SOE used to understand this. I remember the outrage when the EverQuest Test server was wiped in 2000. SOE got the message, and vowed never to wipe Test again. This is where the whole concept of Test Copy came from. But things have changed, and I'm not so sure the current management even remembers any more why there's a permanent Test server.</p>

[Pearl]

<p>If what's being done on the Test server is in fact for the benefit of all players, then there's no reason those players shouldn't be able to read about the good work being done for them; all the better for them to appreciate the process of testing, bug reporting, retesting, etc. Why would anyone want to hide something for which all of us should be appreciative?</p>

[SOE-MOD-02]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=499962&post_id=5735327" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=49996...post_id=5735327</a> Trolling is not permitted.

[Soresha]

<p><cite>Pearl wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If what's being done on the Test server is in fact for the benefit of all players, then there's no reason those players shouldn't be able to read about the good work being done for them; all the better for them to appreciate the process of testing, bug reporting, retesting, etc. Why would anyone want to hide something for which all of us should be appreciative?</p></blockquote><p>I wouldn't say anyone wants to hide. And we could gain us a few more part-time Test players for the extra exposure. It can provide a place genuinely interested people can ask questions too.</p><p>But the truth is the vast majority of players do NOT understand the test servers, the differences between them, and what happens on those servers. Just reading some of the posts made by non-Test players in this forum since it went public proves this, there's a lot of misinformation out there, or "close but not quite the reality" information.</p><p>This leads to:</p><p>people say we're whining, without knowing how the server struggles</p><p>people say we're spoilt, or make other false statements which don't help</p><p>plus the people who will come in and troll because they're bored</p><p>all in the face of a battered community which is often pretty worn down already.</p><p>Frankly if someone is not a tester, they shouldn't be spouting off opinions about the Test servers and player-testers, and how SOE does or doesn't support them. That would be like me saying what should happen to PVPers on a PVP server - when I have no genuine interest in that activity, I've never been on the server, and I never will.</p><p>On a more productive note, since what we need is an education drive, I think a couple of stickied information threads at the top of the forum could really help.</p><p>"What this forum is for" - explain it's for testers to talk about the testing process and the servers, not for feedback, with a strong warning about bug/feedback/commenting on content posts being moved out.</p><p>"What is Test server?" - explain in detail, the patches, short notice downtimes, increased risk of the game breaking, the minor benefits (xp bonus, bookworm, master drops). Maybe also what it's really like to play there, the population, broker usage, crafting for others.</p><p>"What is TestCopy server?" - explain in detail, buffers and usual locations, getting wiped, the copy commands.</p><p>And other suggestions, folks?</p>

[Cloudrat]

<p><cite>Soresha wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pearl wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If what's being done on the Test server is in fact for the benefit of all players, then there's no reason those players shouldn't be able to read about the good work being done for them; all the better for them to appreciate the process of testing, bug reporting, retesting, etc. Why would anyone want to hide something for which all of us should be appreciative?</p></blockquote><p>I wouldn't say anyone wants to hide. And we could gain us a few more part-time Test players for the extra exposure. It can provide a place genuinely interested people can ask questions too.</p><p>But the truth is the vast majority of players do NOT understand the test servers, the differences between them, and what happens on those servers. Just reading some of the posts made by non-Test players in this forum since it went public proves this, there's a lot of misinformation out there, or "close but not quite the reality" information.</p><p>This leads to:</p><p>people say we're whining, without knowing how the server struggles</p><p>people say we're spoilt, or make other false statements which don't help</p><p>plus the people who will come in and troll because they're bored</p><p>all in the face of a battered community which is often pretty worn down already.</p><p>Frankly if someone is not a tester, they shouldn't be spouting off opinions about the Test servers and player-testers, and how SOE does or doesn't support them. That would be like me saying what should happen to PVPers on a PVP server - when I have no genuine interest in that activity, I've never been on the server, and I never will.</p><p>On a more productive note, since what we need is an education drive, I think a couple of stickied information threads at the top of the forum could really help.</p><p>"What this forum is for" - explain it's for testers to talk about the testing process and the servers, not for feedback, with a strong warning about bug/feedback/commenting on content posts being moved out.</p><p>"What is Test server?" - explain in detail, the patches, short notice downtimes, increased risk of the game breaking, the minor benefits (xp bonus, bookworm, master drops). Maybe also what it's really like to play there, the population, broker usage, crafting for others.</p><p>"What is TestCopy server?" - explain in detail, buffers and usual locations, getting wiped, the copy commands.</p><p>And other suggestions, folks?</p></blockquote><p>Good idea!</p>

[tkia]

Nice plan. One flaw. Nobody reads stickied threads at the top of forums ...

[Te'ana]

<p><cite>Piestro wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm making the assumption that some players have chosen to go to test rather than test_copy. I have not been monitoring the server populations extensively. People who have played on test before, etc. might be more likely to go to test than test_copy. </p></blockquote><p>Some folks might mistakenly roll a character on Test, but when they find out they have to level it up the hard way they will leave for Test-Copy instead. A few folks will stay because they didn't know such a community existed, but I think most will not.</p>

[Nuhus]

<p>Wow, I'm not a tester, I don't think you realize how much they do. Really. 20 to 30 mins a week? Do you have any idea how much time volunteers (testers, guides etc) spend on behalf of the community? It's a heck of a lot more than that. I've never been a tester, but I know how much time people who contribute put in. </p><p>It really must be becoming a skeleton crew there. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[InSaNeMaStEr89]

<p>has anyone noticed that the plain nek pine trees that u can craft is not visable when placing them in the test as well as the live servers as well since the update this week? sigh.............</p>

[Cloudrat]

<p><cite>Endlesslove@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>has anyone noticed that the plain nek pine trees that u can craft is not visable when placing them in the test as well as the live servers as well since the update this week? sigh.............</p></blockquote><p>Oh you are so cute<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Yes and frostfell trees too are MiA<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   not fully visible<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[EbonFae]

<p><cite>Piestro wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Mermut wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Piestro wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do agree that the better way of handling this would be for me to have posted and let people know that the change was going to happen. Unfortunately I have severe time constraints, and chose not to do so because that would have delayed making these changes for at least a week or two. For that you have my apologies.</p><p>I felt, after consulting with a number of parties, that this was the better choice. Currently there are many people playing on test, because of the GU 63 content. This represents an opportunity to recruit and retain people who are currently testing, and allowing them to see the community that exists on tests increases the potential of this opportunity. While we may respectfully disagree on the reasons for this choice, no disrespect to the test community was intended.</p></blockquote><p>Quick question.. when you say lots of people playing on test, do you mean test or test_copy? They are two very distinct servers with a different community. Test_copy has a very transient population where people tend not to feel much attachment because the server can be wiped at any time. On test, people tend to play there regularly and the only way to get a toon there is to make it there and level it up manually, no buffers, no gear merchants, etc. I agree that the game would be well served by a bigger population on test (not test_copy) but all the push seems to be for players to go to test_copy.</p></blockquote><p>I'm making the assumption that some players have chosen to go to test rather than test_copy. I have not been monitoring the server populations extensively. People who have played on test before, etc. might be more likely to go to test than test_copy. </p></blockquote><p>No offense intended but you know how the saying goes about assuming anything, right?Now I know I'm not a solid member of the Test Community. I have deep respect for the people that have made their homes there because they are dedicated & committed to testing content all the time. It is thanks to the Test Community that I can enjoy all the aspects of crafting & solo adventuring on my avatars. There are few people who come to the game & make the decision to reside on Test and faithfully treat their world as both a testing zone as well as their home. If I knew then what I know now, I probably would have happily cozied up to Test & never looked at the rest of the servers.I agree with Mermut that TestCopy is a highly fluctuating population. It might usually consist more of those who might want to see what the end-game is going to be like or what new recipes crafters like myself would drool over, rather than people who will honestly & truthfully /bug and /feedback problems or issues. It's also a throw-away server that gets wiped out of existance when its usefulness is done. Even the MotD on Live servers push TestCopy instead of appealing to the people what are willing to start from scratch and work their way up on the more permanant Test server. I'm on the side that Testers should have a piece of the forums to themselves where they are not subject to the trolls, whiners & otherwise clueless people that populate the general forums. I also believe that the use of the polling mails would have given a clearer picture of the people that make up the Test Community. That would have been good use of a delay of a week or two.It wasn't broke, so why try to force a change on something that otherwise was working for that community?Just my two coppers worth.</p>

[Pearl]

<p><cite>Ebonchyld@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> I'm on the side that Testers should have a piece of the forums to themselves where they are not subject to the trolls, whiners & otherwise clueless people that populate the general forums.</p></blockquote><p>Is this how inhabitants of the Test server see the rest of the EQ2 population?</p>

[Cloudrat]

<p><cite>Pearl wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ebonchyld@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> I'm on the side that Testers should have a piece of the forums to themselves where they are not subject to the trolls, whiners & otherwise clueless people that populate the general forums.</p></blockquote><p>Is this how inhabitants of the Test server see the rest of the EQ2 population?</p></blockquote><p>Absolutely not, but " trolls, whiners & otherwise clueless people" are around too and when we are trying to sort out confusing bugs and server specific issues sorting through their posts can definately slow the process.</p>

[Avirodar]

<p><cite>Cloudrat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pearl wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ebonchyld@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> I'm on the side that Testers should have a piece of the forums to themselves where they are not subject to the trolls, whiners & otherwise clueless people that populate the general forums.</p></blockquote><p>Is this how inhabitants of the Test server see the rest of the EQ2 population?</p></blockquote><p>Absolutely not, but " trolls, whiners & otherwise clueless people" are around too and when we are trying to sort out confusing bugs and server specific issues sorting through their posts can definately slow the process.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks Cloudrat. At least we know that you do not hold the same regard for the EQ2 population, as Ebonchyld.Given the concerns expressed by some testers of waning population, the denizens of the Test server should be thankful for the added exposure. It may inspire some sorely needed new blood. This can only bode well for Test, and EQ2.</p>

[feldon30]

<p><cite>Avirodar@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cloudrat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pearl wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ebonchyld@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> I'm on the side that Testers should have a piece of the forums to themselves where they are not subject to the trolls, whiners & otherwise clueless people that populate the general forums.</p></blockquote><p>Is this how inhabitants of the Test server see the rest of the EQ2 population?</p></blockquote><p>Absolutely not, but " trolls, whiners & otherwise clueless people" are around too and when we are trying to sort out confusing bugs and server specific issues sorting through their posts can definately slow the process.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks Cloudrat. At least we know that you do not hold the same regard for the EQ2 population, as Ebonchyld.Given the concerns expressed by some testers of waning population, the denizens of the Test server should be thankful for the added exposure. It may inspire some sorely needed new blood. This can only bode well for Test, and EQ2.</p></blockquote><p>The Testers should be thankful? I'm pretty sure it's SOE and the playerbase that should be thankful for Testers who dedicate hours per week with detailed bug reports in exchange for nothing.</p>

[Avirodar]

<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The Testers should be thankful? I'm pretty sure it's SOE and the playerbase that should be thankful for Testers who dedicate hours per week with detailed bug reports in exchange for nothing.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, they should.The exposure may inspire some new people, with a genuine interest to help test, to join the Test Server. More genuine testers would likely result in more successful outcomes from Test Server.If testers successfuly identifying and aiding in the resolution of bugs, is the driving desire of those who play upon test, they should be thankful for the added exposure, because it aids the cause they seek. The test server otherwise remaining out of sight, out of mind, and not really talked about, will do nothing to solve the population issues testers have commented on.</p>

[SOE-MOD-08]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=500098&post_id=5743536" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50009...post_id=5743536</a> Nonconstructive.

[Enna]

<p>If I had a nickel for every time I saw a newcomer in Test chat (or 1-9, or Crafting, on Test Server) who wanted to know where the buffers were, and had to be re-directed to Test_Copy server...</p><p>... I could probably buy a lifetime gold membership with the accumulated cash.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I have encouraged people to come to Test ever since I learned how to get there.</p><p>============================================</p><p>A few years ago, when I learned how to reach Test server, the community was thriving. While it remained a distinctly lower population than the live server where I also play, there were usually people around. If one did a /who all ... one often saw around 50 players serverwide.</p><p>Something must have happened during the year when I was so ill that I didn't even manage to log into the game often enough to get all the holiday recipes, because now Test server seems to have become a ghost town. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" /></p><p>During recent months, when I log in, if I do a /who all ... it's usually fewer than 20 people on the entire server.</p><p>One side-effect of the echoing emptiness is that my own playtime has shifted to more on Live and less on Test. It's just not as much fun when there's almost nobody else around, at all. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" /> I used to spend about half of my playing time on Live, and half on Test. Lately, I might get over to Test once a week (though I did make a point of putting in some extra time to test this latest GU.)</p><p>============================================</p><p>Would new recruits be good for the Test community? Yes, if they're serious about testing and trying to improve Norrath... instead of looking for a free ride or lots of "PL" assistance.</p><p>Unfortunately, most of what I see in Test chats are people wanting to buff a toon to level 90, get some sneak previews, and then run back to Live to plan strategies on how to get server discoveries.</p><p>============================================</p><p>Testing does work a bit differently from general Live playing. It takes a different kind of dedication, and as Cloudrat's signature says - it takes Patience. Not just a little bit of patience, either, but a lot.</p><p>I have seen times where /bug reports and /feedback resulted in changes that were improvements. Other times, to my disappointment, I see the very same things I reported showing up in the Live version. It happens, sometimes things go astray or get overlooked.</p><p>============================================</p><p>I do grow weary of the people who seem to think Test Server players owe them. Technically, the people whose job it is to catch bugs are SOE's paid QA employees. We Test Server players just help them "proofread" ... and we do that without any monetary compensation.</p><p>I've been tempted to make up some rather pointed hotkeys that encourage the complainers to go do the testing for themselves... but so far, I've resisted that temptation. *points to her nicely polished rent-a-halo and tries to look good*</p><p>============================================</p><p>So while opening this forum to the public, which is the first time I had access, could possibly encourage more people to come test... my concern is that making it completely public could backfire if the clueless complaining-flaming types choose to use it as an opportunity to harass.</p><p>We are fellow-players, not SOE employees. We don't need that kind of hassle from the immature folks who think being rude makes them somebody. It doesn't, and that kind of harassment grows old very quickly.</p><p>============================================</p><p>It also hurts when in webcasts Brasse and Smokejumper talk of Test_Copy situations and call those "Test" ... as if the real Test server didn't exist. Contrary to their assumptions, I'm *more* likely to take risks when I copy my Live or Test characters to Test_Copy, and explore.</p><p>Why? Because if I do something that messes up a copied character, it's not permanent. The real character still exists safely on a real server, and those multiple deaths, or faction hits, or lost house items are only impacting the clone. It's a great opportunity to go wild with one's gameplay, and look for ways that things might break, and not have to worry about messing up a permanent character.</p><p>But then, it seems I think like a Tester and not like expected.</p><p>============================================</p><p>Oops, seems I've rambled a bit more long-winded than I'd planned, but I hope my meandering ramblings help someone to better understand a different perspective.</p><p>Thanks for your time, and have a good day. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Citadelli]

<p>I can see a lot confussion here, myself especially included.  Maybe it's the new launch pad or other changes in the forums that Piestro has stated. Is the new launch pad option of "public-test" different than just the original posters "Test" for starters?</p><p>I admit I am one of those Transient testers, that works more than full time with a family of 6 kids (which more than half of us play EQ2), where my mains Raid on a tri-weekly basis while running a couple guilds with my good friends - busy! LOL</p><p>This game has been one of my few personal accessible escapes, and while I can't/don't want to dedicate myself to trying to fix the game I enjoy, I am still very passionate about it.  Would rather focus on the fun and enjoyment versus the mechanics.  But when I can still like to try and help share "an" opinion.</p><p>I do play test here and there, and while I may have only about 40 hours in on GU 63 over the last couple weeks, I've still put in over 10 feedbacks and bugs.  Some silly cosmetics, some I think are huge like the lack of faction understanding.</p><p>I think Test should be the last place for flamers and they should be reported for trolling, but some of us transient commoners may have good insight <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I don't think most of us would be here if we didn't care and wanted to help OUR game be the best it can be.</p><p>I do appreciate all of you testers for all that you do, and the awesome Dev team that has created and maintaned, grown and try to do your best to create something that has life and a continous path forward.</p><p>Cita</p>

[Citadelli]

<p>Although I would see your point <span style="text-decoration: underline;">HUGE</span> if you were all paid a certain wage instead of paying to play (I don't know how it might work on a different private test server? If it's different now than when I was doing test years ago?) and bound by NDA rules like many other upcoming games where people are given certain tasks daily to run through zones many times etc and are expected to give quantitative results and feedback as a matter of accountability in order to keep your job.  That's a totally different thing, it's your job not a game since you are an employee not a customer.  Again, not sure what the real story is...</p><p>Cita</p>

[Enna]

<p><cite>Citadelli wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Although I would see your point <span style="text-decoration: underline;">HUGE</span> if you were all paid a certain wage instead of paying to play (I don't know how it might work on a different private test server? If it's different now than when I was doing test years ago?) and bound by NDA rules like many other upcoming games where people are given certain tasks daily to run through zones many times etc and are expected to give quantitative results and feedback as a matter of accountability in order to keep your job.  That's a totally different thing, it's your job not a game since you are an employee not a customer.  Again, not sure what the real story is...</p><p>Cita</p></blockquote><p>The problem I keep encountering is that dissatisfied customers are blaming me (and other Test Server players) if any bugs slilp past "Public" testing.</p><p>We who play on Test are *not* paid QA. Fixing bugs is *not* our job.</p><p>All we can do is help point out bugs that QA missed, the same as any other player.</p><p>However, other players who never even visit Test server seem to think that they can harass us and accuse us of "not doing our job" whenever they don't like something that happens in the game.</p><p>We are unprotected targets, when that sort of thing begins happening. I've mostly quit telling people on Live servers that I also play on Test for that reason. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p><p>SOE Employees have some useful tools to deal with people who get rude that we, as players, do not. Frankly, I don't think anybody gets paid enough to have to tolerate the level of abuse that sometimes gets dished out, but at least employees have methods and tools in place to help keep a lid on unreasonable people (this would include dialing the extension / sending an email to the people that suspend and ban the accounts of the unreasonable).</p><p>All we Test *players* can do is protest to SOE whens someone else starts being unreasonable.</p><p>You like to play in peace, and not get harassed for playing a bit differently from someone else, yes?</p><p>Well... we like the same thing! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>This is the reason why people are wanting Test Server to have its own semi-private forums, where we can discuss things specific to Test server without having to worry about people who don't ever come to Test server misunderstanding what we are saying / doing, and getting their "rude" on.</p><p>I hope that helps? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[SOE-MOD-17]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=516791&post_id=5747485" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=51679...post_id=5747485</a> Trolling. Please review the forum guidelines.

[SOE-MOD-17]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=516791&post_id=5747534" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=51679...post_id=5747534</a> Calling other players trolls. Please review the forum guidelines.

[SOE-MOD-08]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=500098&post_id=5747583" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50009...post_id=5747583</a> Please do not quote forum violations.

[SOE-MOD-08]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=500098&post_id=5747674" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50009...post_id=5747674</a> Please do not quote forum violations.

[SOE-MOD-02]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=499962&post_id=5751171" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=49996...post_id=5751171</a> Keep the posts constructive please.

[SOE-MOD-02]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=499962&post_id=5753497" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=49996...post_id=5753497</a> Trolling is not permitted on these forums.

[Purr]

<p>I think it couldn't be more clear which direction our beloved Test Server and it's dedicated Forum are going. When did we actually have MODs having to step in to "move posts" BEFORE the forum became open to the non-testers?</p><p>'nuff said.</p>

[Cloudrat]

<p>Hugs PURR!</p>

[Whilhelmina]

<p>Oooh ! A Purr !</p><p>Come purr with us at this new, beloved and much appreciated change!</p><p>Sadly, it does indeed speak for itself. Tbh, for those wondering, 2 of the delated message above were from testers and asking the player above them to "please stop trolling" which wasn't relevent anymore once said trolling message was removed.</p><p>So. Hum. Now that we tested the new and improved visibility *cough*, what's your position Piestro?</p>

[Cyliena]

<p><cite>Whilhelmina@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So. Hum. Now that we tested the new and improved visibility *cough*, what's your position Piestro?</p></blockquote><p>I would honestly be amazed if he's even checking in on this forum at all. Making it visible really felt like he was wiping his hands clean of it, sadly.</p>

[Avirodar]

<p><cite>Purr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think it couldn't be more clear which direction our beloved Test Server and it's dedicated Forum are going. When did we actually have MODs having to step in to "move posts" BEFORE the forum became open to the non-testers?</p><p>'nuff said.</p></blockquote><p>The direction of the test server was perfectly clear, before "Testers Only" was made visible to the public.I hope the public visibility helps turn it around.'nuff said.</p>

[Cloudrat]

<p><cite>Avirodar@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Purr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think it couldn't be more clear which direction our beloved Test Server and it's dedicated Forum are going. When did we actually have MODs having to step in to "move posts" BEFORE the forum became open to the non-testers?</p><p>'nuff said.</p></blockquote><p>The direction of the test server was perfectly clear, before "Testers Only" was made visible to the public.I hope the public visibility helps turn it around.'nuff said.</p></blockquote><p>Upside down maybe lol</p>

[Avirodar]

<p><cite>Cloudrat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Upside down maybe lol</p></blockquote><p>Upside down, in regard to what?<a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prospering" target="_blank">"Prospering"</a> ... It is a word that wouldn't apply to the population of the Test Server, in recent years. Changing this forum subsection to be visible, provides exposure, thus improves the chances of new people participating on Test. This is a marked improvement upon the previous status quo.I hope SOE (including Piestro) does more to continue promoting Test. This should be just the first step of several, intended to increase awareness and participation. Maybe things like a nice EQ2players article... And/Or a temporary participation perk, maybe something like a small SC discount (temporary, on live) for meeting certain criteria on things the Devs need checked. So many possibilities exist for subtle incentives to help a recruitment drive.If Test continued exactly as it was, if nothing changed, what would have improved?</p>

[Purr]

<p>Visibility of what, exactly?<cite>Avirodar@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Purr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think it couldn't be more clear which direction our beloved Test Server and it's dedicated Forum are going. When did we actually have MODs having to step in to "move posts" BEFORE the forum became open to the non-testers?</p><p>'nuff said.</p></blockquote><p>The direction of the test server was perfectly clear, before "Testers Only" was made visible to the public.I hope the public visibility helps turn it around.'nuff said.</p></blockquote><p>LOLPML. Obviously not.</p><p>Visibility of what, exactly? Testers only was for a big part just a community forum and a way to hopefully reach somebody when Test was once again forgotten in the off-stage. It is what it says in it's description: /quote  <span >A forum for people who actually play on Test server. This forum is for discussions specific to the Test server community, not general testing.  /quote</span></p><p>This is not exactly a forum for insider info, in case you haven't looked back into it a bit.  And no, no juicy parts got deleted (to my knowledge).</p><p>12 people on Test today.  What we see is a result of all the "attention" Test Server got over the last years, but esp. since Scott left.  There were times when we ran raids, now it looks like somebody ran through the server community with a can of RAID. People got tired of paying and investing their time to make a game better and only being hit over the head for it. They left. And a lot left not only Test but the game. I will be a happy Tester should SoE do something that actually brings in new testers!</p><p>Sorry for the rant. Every time I come back I have so much hope for a game I (still) love, and instead it had gotten worse in the meantime. /feels sorry for poor Zolt...</p><p>/retreats to actually play on Test.</p>

[Kuulei]

<p>Welcome Back Purr!</p><p>albeit your stays are brief, its nice to see you!</p>

[Purr]

<p><cite>Kuulei wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Welcome Back Purr!</p><p>albeit your stays are brief, its nice to see you!</p></blockquote><p>TY - I wish my stays weren't constantly interupted by having to job ooc. maybe I should apply to SoE    <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Avirodar]

<p><cite>Purr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Avirodar@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Purr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think it couldn't be more clear which direction our beloved Test Server and it's dedicated Forum are going. When did we actually have MODs having to step in to "move posts" BEFORE the forum became open to the non-testers?</p><p>'nuff said.</p></blockquote><p>The direction of the test server was perfectly clear, before "Testers Only" was made visible to the public.I hope the public visibility helps turn it around.'nuff said.</p></blockquote><p>LOLPML. Obviously not.</p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><strong>1) </strong></span>Visibility of what, exactly? Testers only was for a big part just a community forum and a way to hopefully reach somebody when Test was once again forgotten in the off-stage. It is what it says in it's description: /quote  <span>A forum for people who actually play on Test server. This forum is for discussions specific to the Test server community, not general testing.  /quote</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><strong>2)</strong></span> This is not exactly a forum for insider info, in case you haven't looked back into it a bit.  And no, no juicy parts got deleted (to my knowledge).</p><p><strong><span style="font-size: medium;">3)</span></strong> 12 people on Test today.  What we see is a result of all the "attention" Test Server got over the last years, but esp. since Scott left.  There were times when we ran raids, now it looks like somebody ran through the server community with a can of RAID. People got tired of paying and investing their time to make a game better and only being hit over the head for it. They left. And a lot left not only Test but the game. I will be a happy Tester should SoE do something that actually brings in new testers!</p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><strong>4)</strong></span> Sorry for the rant. Every time I come back I have so much hope for a game I (still) love, and instead it had gotten worse in the meantime. /feels sorry for poor Zolt...</p><p>/retreats to actually play on Test.</p></blockquote><p>1) Visibility of what, exactly? The Test Server, obviously. And if this forum section was nothing more than a way to <strong><em>"hopefully reach somebody when Test was once again forgotten"</em></strong>, you only illustrate the point of how incresed visibility to the EQ2 population is needed. If the Test Server is simply tucked away, out of sight, out of mind, never promoted, never recruited for... What will happen? Nothing good, for sure.2) No idea what I wrote which inspired that comment. Piestro gave his reasons for making this forum public, and it makes perfect sense.3) So, 12 people... By the time you factor out people idling, and random lowbies spread across 92 levels, that leaves barely enough to test solo questing, solo tradeskilling, and not a lot else. A great example of why SOE needs to work at promoting the test server.I find the reactions of certain people, to be interesting. Instead of welcoming the open visibility and encouraging people to join the Test Server, they act as if they have been defiled...  People of Test should to be more welcoming, and less condescending, to help Test Server have a chance of returning to the population of days gone (or above!).</p>

[Purr]

<p>Cloud, you had it right - upside down is a truly fitting word.</p>

[Avirodar]

<p><cite>Purr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Cloud, you had it right - upside down is a truly fitting word.</p></blockquote><p>It is actually two words.</p>

[Kenazeer]

<p><cite>Purr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>12 people on Test today.  What we see is a result of all the "attention" Test Server got over the last years, but esp. since Scott left. </p></blockquote><p>Wow. That is pretty bad. They should offer you all free transfers to the regular servers and make Test Copy where all testing takes place.</p><p>Not exactly a good use of resources if there is hardware dedicated to a mission (testing) and there really isn't the population to support the mission (testing.) Lord knows the other servers could use a little extra horsepower.</p>

[Hordolin Awanagin]

<p><cite>Kenazeer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Purr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>12 people on Test today.  What we see is a result of all the "attention" Test Server got over the last years, but esp. since Scott left. </p></blockquote><p>Wow. That is pretty bad. They should offer you all free transfers to the regular servers and make Test Copy where all testing takes place.</p><p>Not exactly a good use of resources if there is hardware dedicated to a mission (testing) and there really isn't the population to support the mission (testing.) Lord knows the other servers could use a little extra horsepower.</p></blockquote><p>That will likely never happen.</p>

[Avirodar]

<p><cite>Hordolin Awanagin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kenazeer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Purr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>12 people on Test today.  What we see is a result of all the "attention" Test Server got over the last years, but esp. since Scott left. </p></blockquote><p>Wow. That is pretty bad. They should offer you all free transfers to the regular servers and make Test Copy where all testing takes place.</p><p>Not exactly a good use of resources if there is hardware dedicated to a mission (testing) and there really isn't the population to support the mission (testing.) Lord knows the other servers could use a little extra horsepower.</p></blockquote><p>That will likely never happen.</p></blockquote><p>Transferring off Nagafen was likely to never happen. RMT in EQ2 was likely to never happen. Getting toons off Bazaar was never likely to happen. The point made by Kenazeer is entirely valid, and his proposition is a feasible solution. You are free to think it is likely to never happen, but bigger things have happened. The Test server is useless, if it does not have the capacity to sufficiently function, and 12 people does not cut it.It makes perfect sense to consolidate testing resources, being Test, and TestCopy. After which, SOE could take measures to help promote the existance of the server, which would hopefully inspire a resurgance in the populations seen on Test. It would be nice to see Test be used to its potential, not locked down by a small handful of people who complain about Test being ignored, but then complain about things which make the server more visible.The Test server is not a sneaky little back alley club to make a small handful of people feel like they are special in any way, it is there to test. The Test server is not performing to a satisfactory capacity, with numbers being a severe problem. How many people on Test have done the HM Skyshrine heroic zones? How much tesing was done on SS raid zones on Test? Would be interesting to see a Dev pull the figures to give actual numbers. Odds are that testing of such zones was minimal, if not completely non-existant. TestCopy on the other hand? Go figure.Ultimately, things need to change on Test for it to have a chance to become useful again. If a few old-hats get their noses out of joint in the process, it sure beats doing nothing at all.</p>

[SOE-MOD-04]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=500111&post_id=5757623" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50011...post_id=5757623</a> Removed for trolling

[Avirodar]

<p>Can you please clarify something for me, based on the contents of your post...</p><p>Which is it?1) A [COMPLETE] community, of multi-levels and abilities. vs2) A [SMALL] community of testers, who play odd hours, and often alone.Thank you in advance for your explanation.</p>

[Cloudrat]

<p><cite>Avirodar@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Can you please clarify something for me, based on the contents of your post...Which is it?1) A [COMPLETE] community, of multi-levels and abilities. vs2) A [SMALL] community of testers, who play odd hours, and often alone.Thank you in advance for your explanation.</p></blockquote><p>  I don't believe  they are exclusionary statements, so as for an explanation lol  not sure what you need.</p>

[Avirodar]

<p><cite>Cloudrat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Avirodar@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Can you please clarify something for me, based on the contents of your post...Which is it?1) A [COMPLETE] community, of multi-levels and abilities. vs2) A [SMALL] community of testers, who play odd hours, and often alone.Thank you in advance for your explanation.</p></blockquote><p>  I don't believe  they are exclusionary statements, so as for an explanation lol  not sure what you need.</p></blockquote><p>They are exlusionary statements.A small community who plays at odd hours, and often alone, is only capable of testing a small portion of the content (solo quests, tradeskills etc), and not very thoroughly at that . Test does not have an active population large enough to sufficiently test current tier heroic and raid content, thus is far from complete.I am sorry about what happened to the lock on your little club door. But I hope Piestro does more to increase the awareness and visibility of Test server, in an effort to elevate the population high enough to a point it is useful, like in days gone.</p>

[Whilhelmina]

<p>I had a question for you, Avirodar: do you play on Test and/or have you ever played on Test?</p><p>Just for clarification: we are not "12 on the server". The population increases a lot when we are in a testing phase (aka just before a GU). A whole bunch of us also play on live. We are mostly around 30 during EU time when there are no GUs around.</p><p>Nearly all of us have a couple of max chararacters and lower ones. I have 3 91-92 ones and 9 92 tradeskillers. This board can allow me to put up the list of what I have researched on my assistants or hop to help with shawls update if somebody needs anything. As Cloud said, the statements are not exclusionary. The population is small but spans all levels with every type of players (those that solo, those that craft, those that group and those that try to raid even if the lack of incentive to play on Test doesn't help with that last part). We also play on several servers, so the population is spread out. This board, along with the Test chat, help us to keep in touch and request/find help. I play at odd hours (EU daytime), keeping in touch is important.</p><p>On the "it's not possible to move chars out of Test". It happened once and it's what brought the server to its current state: a guild was moved because a dev wanted to do the players a favour, triggering a huge server drama on Test and Unrest. Moved chars (and a bunch others that shouldn't have been touched) were deleted and a massive bunch of people left.</p><p>I fear Piestro won't help anything as nearly all the messages on GU testing spoke only about Test_copy and never about Test proper. We could work on testing on Test mainly because Gninja took the time to design a level unlocker for us and assisted the heroic groups in Skyshrine to monitor the process.</p><p>The fact that we still crash in Withered Lands since the last maintenance and have awfull zoning time sure doesn't help either. The fact that devs don't always listen (like the GU61 debacle last year) doesn't help.</p><p>what else... yest, Test vs Test_Copy. On Test_Copy, you have buffers, you'll test last level content and such. On Test, we can test everything. For example, when GU61 was patched, I took this oportunity to level my brigand through all the KoS timeline and then went to Kylong Plains and Odus, picking out stuff that wasn't for the right class, with wrong stats and such along the way. Now that we have quest targets to check, I did the Freeport timeline to check what showed or not. Will somebody on Test_copy bother to do whole old quest timelines just for checking stuff? Some may, but doing tons of old content on a temp char is not very interesting, while doing it on a permanent char that needs levelling is way more interesting isn't it?</p>

[Avirodar]

<p><cite>Whilhelmina@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1) I had a question for you, Avirodar: do you play on Test and/or have you ever played on Test?</p><p>2) Just for clarification: we are not "12 on the server". The population increases a lot when we are in a testing phase (aka just before a GU). A whole bunch of us also play on live. We are mostly around 30 during EU time when there are no GUs around.</p><p>Nearly all of us have a couple of max chararacters and lower ones. I have 3 91-92 ones and 9 92 tradeskillers. This board can allow me to put up the list of what I have researched on my assistants or hop to help with shawls update if somebody needs anything. As Cloud said, the statements are not exclusionary. The population is small but spans all levels with every type of players (those that solo, those that craft, those that group and those that try to raid even if the lack of incentive to play on Test doesn't help with that last part). We also play on several servers, so the population is spread out. This board, along with the Test chat, help us to keep in touch and request/find help. I play at odd hours (EU daytime), keeping in touch is important.</p><p>3) On the "it's not possible to move chars out of Test". It happened once and it's what brought the server to its current state: a guild was moved because a dev wanted to do the players a favour, triggering a huge server drama on Test and Unrest. Moved chars (and a bunch others that shouldn't have been touched) were deleted and a massive bunch of people left.</p><p>4) I fear Piestro won't help anything as nearly all the messages on GU testing spoke only about Test_copy and never about Test proper. We could work on testing on Test mainly because Gninja took the time to design a level unlocker for us and assisted the heroic groups in Skyshrine to monitor the process.</p><p>5) The fact that we still crash in Withered Lands since the last maintenance and have awfull zoning time sure doesn't help either. The fact that devs don't always listen (like the GU61 debacle last year) doesn't help.</p><p>6) what else... yest, Test vs Test_Copy. On Test_Copy, you have buffers, you'll test last level content and such. On Test, we can test everything. For example, when GU61 was patched, I took this oportunity to level my brigand through all the KoS timeline and then went to Kylong Plains and Odus, picking out stuff that wasn't for the right class, with wrong stats and such along the way. Now that we have quest targets to check, I did the Freeport timeline to check what showed or not. Will somebody on Test_copy bother to do whole old quest timelines just for checking stuff? Some may, but doing tons of old content on a temp char is not very interesting, while doing it on a permanent char that needs levelling is way more interesting isn't it?</p></blockquote><p>I broke down your quote into numbered sections, to make the reply easier to follow.1) I am not currently (actively) playing on Test. I do have characters there. I, like many others, felt the interaction and responsiveness on Test (staff to players) was sorely lacking, and when my available leisure time was reduced, I cut Test server playtime to leave time for what I view as more worth while persuits.2) Undoubtably the population spikes before a GU. Inquisitive minds wanting to check out new things, combined with the need for actual testing. Many of your comments in seciont #4 link to this point, in which there is a clear focus on test_copy, and the forums relating to test_copy appeared to be the go-to place for devs to view and respond to feedback. It can easily be viewed as wasted resources, for SOE to keep the division in the testing processes (Test and Test_Copy). Test and Test_Copy should be redesigned into one single entity. After all, why shouldn't people be able to copy characters to Test? There is none... It would only serve to encourage more active testing, not just at high levels, but all over. Playing from the east coast of Australia, logging onto test to see a bunch of idling is far from inspiring, and that is how it was leading up to me pulling the plug.3) I am very well aware of exactly what happened when the guild was transferred off Test, and the way the SOE staff member done it on the sly, and the way that all shades of blood was shed, when the news broke on Funrest. I see no reason people should be able to transfer off Test, I maintain that people should be able to copy to test (just like test_copy), but for it to be a one way free ticket. Even though my free time is not what it used to be, it would encourage me to once again spend some time on Test, not just with max level toons, but random lowbies too.4) Sounds like very little testing was done with the heroic/raid side of things, from what you said there.5) The GU61 debacle is a shining example of why my inspiration to play on Test, is practically non existant.6) If Test and Test_Copy are merged, and the characters are free to copy, and permanent, people will be more inclined to go and test content, old and new alike. Even more so if SOE gave specific examples of areas they seek feedback on. For example, when re-itemizing, SOE could advertise they are after feedback on quested, dropped and crafted armor from level 1 to level 90 (92 wasnt out then), and get a list of issues compiled by and sorted by expansion/tier. Merging test services, and improving the feedback and interaction systems, could go a long way toward helping EQ2.The way we're able to interact with the Devs has always seemed... lacking, especially for situations like item revamps where a lot of feedback needs to be provided in an orderly fashion. I had friends send in huge lists of problems (detailing the name of the item, and the problem with it) only to get no response, and the items STILL being bugged. It goes back, once again, to point #5...My ideal situation would be for Test to be a flourishing, prospering, a highly populated server, where Devs actively involve themselves, and utilise much more effective means of requesting and compiling feedback in areas it is specifically needed, while still being open and responsive to all other areas where feedback on broken/bugged content is given. Am I just dreaming? Maybe...</p>

[Whilhelmina]

<p>Thanks for the answer. I didn't know you and couldn't know if you actually knew what you were talking about or not ;p</p><p>I have the same dream, and I fear it's only a dream. Long years ago we had a lots of devs poping around and we feeled loved (aka "we respect the time you take testing for us for free"). Now... We get amazing responses from a very small number of devs (Kaitheel and Gninja mostly) but we really lack some kind of 1/ acknowledgement and 2/ directions (aka "we need you to test X stuff -> give feedback in this thread and then Y stuff -> feedback goes there"). It's easy to do with live events and quests, but didn't work for GU61 and it seems some feedback was lost along the way (I remember Gninja spending hours on Test gathering feedback the last week and being given feedback that was 2 monthes old).</p><p>Anyway. The problem is not really about having Test AND Test_Copy, or having this board public or anything but more about having a real acknowledgement from the team and tools, ways to sort the feedback and bug and such.</p>

[Jeepned2]

<p>ok, first, I'm not on Test, never been, never going to be. However I can't help but feel that my game playing has been enhanced by the work that you folks on Test and Test_copy have done. Personally I do think that your little forum here should have been left as it was. Can't believe there isn't some flunky sitting around SoE that couldn't spend 15-20 mins a week adding people to the forum, but maybe I'm wrong. I've had friends in the past who where on test part time (think that's how most of you are), and the rest of the time they raided on the regular servers. Seems like a lot of work. Just sorry to see you lose your private little corner of SoE forums. Good luck to you.</p>