thread about T1 damage equality [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Davngr1

02-14-2012, 01:05 AM

like to start by saying that i'm really happy with my beastlord and please don't touch them unless it's to make them better :p cos it's a really fun play style and completely warrants t1 damage since it requires timing and dedication to your character to put up those solid numbers. having that said that.. it's pretty obvious that other t1 dps classes have fallen a bit behind nothing super major but a tweak or two is needed in my opinion. here are some of my ideas and anyone who feels like chipping in ideas is welcome to but please keep in mind THIS IS NOT a nerf so and so thread. my suggestions: for sorc: replace the WIS end line Sagacity (12% power cost reduction) with a "preparation" like ability. pre nerf nejenas' ring like. wizard: allow full manaburn benefit for fiery blast combos. lock: my lock is still a baby so if anyone has some ideas feel free to post preds: change INT end line Intoxication to a regular proc. make it proc 1.2 times per min or whatever you see fit to replace the abilities current 45 second reuse timer. assassin: allow fatal follow up combo to benefit from AE targets hit by massacre and stealth assault. this would not increase it's all ready satisfactory single target damage but would give some added benefit to ae, something that assassin lacks. ranger: again ranger is low level and thus i can't really come up with anything from current tier experience but i would suggest removing the 5m requirement for the myth buff auto damage and totally remove or greatly cut down on melee range CA's to make ranger a true range melee dps. feel free to add ideas and please keep the negative comments to your self or to other threads devoted to axing other classes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Raknid

02-14-2012, 11:28 AM

So instead of rebalancing one class you suggest they tweak all the rest?

Freejazzlive

02-14-2012, 11:50 AM

Yimway

02-14-2012, 03:57 PM

<cite>Raknid wrote:</cite><blockquote>So instead of rebalancing one class you suggest they tweak all the rest?</blockquote>This is already the plan at SOE.I just don't expect it till expansion, but xelgad has hinted at some things comming sooner.The Plan(tm)1) Launch OP class with content deprived expansion. The very OP nature will get players to treadmill with it until next expansion.2) Buff all other classes up to said new OP class come next expansion, cause its really not healthy long term to leave a class that OP (see previous examples).They didn't launch the way they are by mistake, and they wont commit marketplace suicide by nerfing the crap out of the class everyone and his brother just leveled up an alt of.

Raknid

02-14-2012, 05:33 PM

In a sadly twisted way that makes complete sense.

Davngr1

02-14-2012, 08:18 PM

<cite>Freejazzlive wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> like to start by saying that i'm really happy with my beastlord and please don't touch them unless it's to make them better :p cos it's a really fun play style and completely warrants t1 damage since it requires timing and dedication to your character to put up those solid numbers.</blockquote>While I realize that level 36 characters are nearly GOD-mode these days, my BL feels like GOD-mode on steroids, & I never feel as if I have to do anything special at all to stomp through normal leveling content. Certainly it's not a matter of timing & dedication.It's waaaaaaaaay OP & needs to be toned down.</blockquote> lvl 36? you don't know how to play a beastlord yet bro but when you get to your 90's and start unlocking the classes potential you will realize that it does take skill to get those big numbers granted right now they are a bit higher on the food chain then they should be. adjust other classes with changes that SHOULD be put in game anyway and whalla! fixed

Davngr1

02-14-2012, 08:19 PM

<cite>Raknid wrote:</cite><blockquote>So instead of rebalancing one class you suggest they tweak all the rest?</blockquote> these other classes have needed tweaks for a while now.. beastlords just made the troubles stand out more.

Seiffil

02-14-2012, 08:50 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> ranger: again ranger is low level and thus i can't really come up with anything from current tier experience but i would suggest removing the 5m requirement for the myth buff auto damage and totally remove or greatly cut down on melee range CA's to make ranger a true range melee dps. </blockquote>That 5m requirement you're referring to has been gone since Sentinel's Fate.

Neiloch

02-14-2012, 09:37 PM

<cite>Seiffil@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> ranger: again ranger is low level and thus i can't really come up with anything from current tier experience but i would suggest removing the 5m requirement for the myth buff auto damage and totally remove or greatly cut down on melee range CA's to make ranger a true range melee dps. </blockquote>That 5m requirement you're referring to has been gone since Sentinel's Fate.</blockquote>I'd still like to see rangers made more ranged. A few of my Melee CA's are still beating the hell out of most of my ranged ones on parses. They need to reevaluate what ever 'score' system they use to balance CA's. Hopefully making rangers more ranged is in the works. Maybe some AA's that turn melee CA's into ranged ones similar to how some warden, inquisitor and mystic AA's turn spells into melee CA's

Kizee

02-15-2012, 12:02 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> like to start by saying that i'm really happy with my beastlord and please don't touch them unless it's to make them better :p cos it's a really fun play style and completely warrants t1 damage since it requires timing and dedication to your character to put up those solid numbers. having that said that.. it's pretty obvious that other t1 dps classes have fallen a bit behind nothing super major but a tweak or two is needed in my opinion. here are some of my ideas and anyone who feels like chipping in ideas is welcome to but please keep in mind THIS IS NOT a nerf so and so thread. my suggestions: for sorc: replace the WIS end line Sagacity (12% power cost reduction) with a "preparation" like ability. pre nerf nejenas' ring like. wizard: allow full manaburn benefit for fiery blast combos. lock: my lock is still a baby so if anyone has some ideas feel free to post preds: change INT end line Intoxication to a regular proc. make it proc 1.2 times per min or whatever you see fit to replace the abilities current 45 second reuse timer. assassin: allow fatal follow up combo to benefit from AE targets hit by massacre and stealth assault. this would not increase it's all ready satisfactory single target damage but would give some added benefit to ae, something that assassin lacks. ranger: again ranger is low level and thus i can't really come up with anything from current tier experience but i would suggest removing the 5m requirement for the myth buff auto damage and totally remove or greatly cut down on melee range CA's to make ranger a true range melee dps. feel free to add ideas and please keep the negative comments to your self or to other threads devoted to axing other classes <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Beastlords are t1 dps when they are in healing stance.... when they are in feral they are in a tier all by themselves.None of your changes will double the dps of the classes you listed since there are parses of beastlords putting up close to 1 million dps.Beastlords are so far out of line that even if they did bring all other classes up to where they should be it would break the game totally.

Freejazzlive

02-15-2012, 11:01 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>you don't know how to play a beastlord yet</blockquote>Well, it's kind of difficult to learn how to play one properly when every mob you fight dies in 1-2 combat arts.

Nrgy

02-15-2012, 02:48 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite><blockquote>So instead of rebalancing one class you suggest they tweak all the rest?</blockquote>This is already the plan at SOE.I just don't expect it till expansion, but xelgad has hinted at some things comming sooner.The Plan(tm)1) Launch OP class with content deprived expansion. The very OP nature will get players to treadmill with it until next expansion.2) Buff all other classes up to said new OP class come next expansion, cause its really not healthy long term to leave a class that OP (see previous examples).They didn't launch the way they are by mistake, and they wont commit marketplace suicide by nerfing the crap out of the class everyone and his brother just leveled up an alt of.</blockquote>This is sooooo true. Whatever the short comings of the SOE Dev teams may be, which I feel are directly related to resource overloading, the SOE Planners are no dopes. They are the reason F2P launched 2 weeks prior to SWtOR. They are the reason Beastlords were brought into the mix after years and years of holding the "never" line. They are the reason that all of SF still only requires old school gear, so the F2P folks can level to 90. They are the reason F2P is little more than a hook due to plat and gear restrictions. They are the reason the SC Marketplace is so driven. IMO, at the current staffing levels of EQ2 on the Dev side, they have little time to actually "tweak" things, which makes the whole CM removal a scary process. I seriously doubt SOE will close down EQ1 or EQ2 if/when EQNext launches.

Freejazzlive

02-15-2012, 04:54 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>granted right now they are a bit higher on the food chain then they should be</blockquote>& BTW -- "right now" is what I'm talking about, so I'm glad you agree, though I'm unsure why you even responded.

Davngr1

02-15-2012, 08:24 PM

<cite>Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> like to start by saying that i'm really happy with my beastlord and please don't touch them unless it's to make them better :p cos it's a really fun play style and completely warrants t1 damage since it requires timing and dedication to your character to put up those solid numbers. having that said that.. it's pretty obvious that other t1 dps classes have fallen a bit behind nothing super major but a tweak or two is needed in my opinion. here are some of my ideas and anyone who feels like chipping in ideas is welcome to but please keep in mind THIS IS NOT a nerf so and so thread. my suggestions: for sorc: replace the WIS end line Sagacity (12% power cost reduction) with a "preparation" like ability. pre nerf nejenas' ring like. wizard: allow full manaburn benefit for fiery blast combos. lock: my lock is still a baby so if anyone has some ideas feel free to post preds: change INT end line Intoxication to a regular proc. make it proc 1.2 times per min or whatever you see fit to replace the abilities current 45 second reuse timer. assassin: allow fatal follow up combo to benefit from AE targets hit by massacre and stealth assault. this would not increase it's all ready satisfactory single target damage but would give some added benefit to ae, something that assassin lacks. ranger: again ranger is low level and thus i can't really come up with anything from current tier experience but i would suggest removing the 5m requirement for the myth buff auto damage and totally remove or greatly cut down on melee range CA's to make ranger a true range melee dps. feel free to add ideas and please keep the negative comments to your self or to other threads devoted to axing other classes <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Beastlords are t1 dps when they are in healing stance.... when they are in feral they are in a tier all by themselves.None of your changes will double the dps of the classes you listed since there are parses of beastlords putting up close to 1 million dps.Beastlords are so far out of line that even if they did bring all other classes up to where they should be it would break the game totally.</blockquote> close to one million dps on what? how close was the next t1 dps class? they aren't that far out of wack and the changes i mentioned would improve damage considerably.

Davngr1

02-15-2012, 08:27 PM

<cite>Freejazzlive wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>granted right now they are a bit higher on the food chain then they should be</blockquote>& BTW -- "right now" is what I'm talking about, so I'm glad you agree, though I'm unsure why you even responded.</blockquote> because you're commenting on a class that you don't even play at 90 with capped AA and gear. this is clearly a "raid dps" thread. i apologize if i gave off the impression that damage on enchanted land's badgers was in question.

Freejazzlive

02-15-2012, 11:34 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freejazzlive wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>granted right now they are a bit higher on the food chain then they should be</blockquote>& BTW -- "right now" is what I'm talking about, so I'm glad you agree, though I'm unsure why you even responded.</blockquote> because you're commenting on a class that you don't even play at 90 with capped AA and gear. this is clearly a "raid dps" thread..</blockquote>No, YOU were the one who said "right now they are a bit higher on the food chain then they should be," & since you claim to be speaking strictly of raid DPS, I assumed you were agreeing that they're higher than they should be.I'm saying they're over-powered at low levels, & you're saying they're a bit higher than they should be (i.e., overpowered) at level 90, which means they're over-powered across the board. Which means you agree with me. Thanks.

Davngr1

02-16-2012, 12:17 AM

<cite>Freejazzlive wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's waaaaaaaaay OP & needs to be toned down.</blockquote> this, is what i don't agree with and have all ready stated in the original post that this was not a "bash" thread but thanks for your input anyhow. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Proud_Silence

02-16-2012, 02:21 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> like to start by saying that i'm really happy with my beastlord and please don't touch them unless it's to make them better :p cos it's a really fun play style and completely warrants t1 damage since it requires timing and dedication to your character to put up those solid numbers. having that said that.. it's pretty obvious that other t1 dps classes have fallen a bit behind nothing super major but a tweak or two is needed in my opinion. here are some of my ideas and anyone who feels like chipping in ideas is welcome to but please keep in mind THIS IS NOT a nerf so and so thread. my suggestions: for sorc: replace the WIS end line Sagacity (12% power cost reduction) with a "preparation" like ability. pre nerf nejenas' ring like. wizard: allow full manaburn benefit for fiery blast combos. lock: my lock is still a baby so if anyone has some ideas feel free to post preds: change INT end line Intoxication to a regular proc. make it proc 1.2 times per min or whatever you see fit to replace the abilities current 45 second reuse timer. assassin: allow fatal follow up combo to benefit from AE targets hit by massacre and stealth assault. this would not increase it's all ready satisfactory single target damage but would give some added benefit to ae, something that assassin lacks. ranger: again ranger is low level and thus i can't really come up with anything from current tier experience but i would suggest removing the 5m requirement for the myth buff auto damage and totally remove or greatly cut down on melee range CA's to make ranger a true range melee dps. feel free to add ideas and please keep the negative comments to your self or to other threads devoted to axing other classes <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>proc 1.2 times per min ? might as well keep it the way it is then.... even if it proced 5.0 a min it would not make up for anything. Also FF combo benefiting from AE stealth targets hits...seriously doubt it would change anything.Personally i have lost nearly my entire motivation to raid as assassin seing how some undergeared BST can join raid and not just slightly beat everyone on parse, but completely dominate.What else can a predator offer the raid or grp ? hate transfer, which is not that great or unique, a poison proc for another mellee class. rangers dont offer anything at all. And in exchange we were supposed to be top notch dmg dealers. now BST comes along and can either be T0 dps ( cause to call em T1 dps would be understatement) or T1 dps + offer sick temps to the grp. Oh yeah and that grp buff claw something already is better then anything predators can offer to the grp.All your suggestions are like a drop of water on a hot stone, you don't seem to understand where the dps from the various dps classes comes from. it sure isn't from some procs or abilities on 1min+ timers, so you can tweak those as much as you like. lol just thinking of Sniper shot/ assassinate being on a 15min timer "because otherwise it would be too OP ability"...makes me chuckle...There's so much wrong with dps classes and equality atm...

Davngr1

02-16-2012, 09:16 PM

<cite>Proud_Silence wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> like to start by saying that i'm really happy with my beastlord and please don't touch them unless it's to make them better :p cos it's a really fun play style and completely warrants t1 damage since it requires timing and dedication to your character to put up those solid numbers. having that said that.. it's pretty obvious that other t1 dps classes have fallen a bit behind nothing super major but a tweak or two is needed in my opinion. here are some of my ideas and anyone who feels like chipping in ideas is welcome to but please keep in mind THIS IS NOT a nerf so and so thread. my suggestions: for sorc: replace the WIS end line Sagacity (12% power cost reduction) with a "preparation" like ability. pre nerf nejenas' ring like. wizard: allow full manaburn benefit for fiery blast combos. lock: my lock is still a baby so if anyone has some ideas feel free to post preds: change INT end line Intoxication to a regular proc. make it proc 1.2 times per min or whatever you see fit to replace the abilities current 45 second reuse timer. assassin: allow fatal follow up combo to benefit from AE targets hit by massacre and stealth assault. this would not increase it's all ready satisfactory single target damage but would give some added benefit to ae, something that assassin lacks. ranger: again ranger is low level and thus i can't really come up with anything from current tier experience but i would suggest removing the 5m requirement for the myth buff auto damage and totally remove or greatly cut down on melee range CA's to make ranger a true range melee dps. feel free to add ideas and please keep the negative comments to your self or to other threads devoted to axing other classes <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>proc 1.2 times per min ? might as well keep it the way it is then.... even if it proced 5.0 a min it would not make up for anything. Also FF combo benefiting from AE stealth targets hits...seriously doubt it would change anything.Personally i have lost nearly my entire motivation to raid as assassin seing how some undergeared BST can join raid and not just slightly beat everyone on parse, but completely dominate.What else can a predator offer the raid or grp ? hate transfer, which is not that great or unique, a poison proc for another mellee class. rangers dont offer anything at all. And in exchange we were supposed to be top notch dmg dealers. now BST comes along and can either be T0 dps ( cause to call em T1 dps would be understatement) or T1 dps + offer sick temps to the grp. Oh yeah and that grp buff claw something already is better then anything predators can offer to the grp.All your suggestions are like a drop of water on a hot stone, you don't seem to understand where the dps from the various dps classes comes from. it sure isn't from some procs or abilities on 1min+ timers, so you can tweak those as much as you like. lol just thinking of Sniper shot/ assassinate being on a 15min timer "because otherwise it would be too OP ability"...makes me chuckle...There's so much wrong with dps classes and equality atm...</blockquote> assassin can already keep up with beastlords on single target fights as far as i have seen. the int line proc does about the same damage as the swipe proc when used correctly, it's just that most players don't have that skill set and thus this change would aid that also let it proc on multiple mobs at once. assassin aoe's benefiting FFU would give that ability a big boost on aoe encounters. maybe you should study your parses, abilities and how they all work before posting against my suggestions also you could post some suggestions of your own.

Kizee

02-16-2012, 11:18 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> like to start by saying that i'm really happy with my beastlord and please don't touch them unless it's to make them better :p cos it's a really fun play style and completely warrants t1 damage since it requires timing and dedication to your character to put up those solid numbers. having that said that.. it's pretty obvious that other t1 dps classes have fallen a bit behind nothing super major but a tweak or two is needed in my opinion. here are some of my ideas and anyone who feels like chipping in ideas is welcome to but please keep in mind THIS IS NOT a nerf so and so thread. my suggestions: for sorc: replace the WIS end line Sagacity (12% power cost reduction) with a "preparation" like ability. pre nerf nejenas' ring like. wizard: allow full manaburn benefit for fiery blast combos. lock: my lock is still a baby so if anyone has some ideas feel free to post preds: change INT end line Intoxication to a regular proc. make it proc 1.2 times per min or whatever you see fit to replace the abilities current 45 second reuse timer. assassin: allow fatal follow up combo to benefit from AE targets hit by massacre and stealth assault. this would not increase it's all ready satisfactory single target damage but would give some added benefit to ae, something that assassin lacks. ranger: again ranger is low level and thus i can't really come up with anything from current tier experience but i would suggest removing the 5m requirement for the myth buff auto damage and totally remove or greatly cut down on melee range CA's to make ranger a true range melee dps. feel free to add ideas and please keep the negative comments to your self or to other threads devoted to axing other classes <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Beastlords are t1 dps when they are in healing stance.... when they are in feral they are in a tier all by themselves.None of your changes will double the dps of the classes you listed since there are parses of beastlords putting up close to 1 million dps.Beastlords are so far out of line that even if they did bring all other classes up to where they should be it would break the game totally.</blockquote> close to one million dps on what? how close was the next t1 dps class? they aren't that far out of wack and the changes i mentioned would improve damage considerably.</blockquote>Kolskeggr x4 raid. 7mill raidwide dps.From what I read....the next closest dps was 500-600k. So a minimum of a 300k differance compairing equally skilled/geared t1 dps. Yeah...balanced my backside.

Davngr1

02-17-2012, 01:56 AM

<cite>Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> like to start by saying that i'm really happy with my beastlord and please don't touch them unless it's to make them better :p cos it's a really fun play style and completely warrants t1 damage since it requires timing and dedication to your character to put up those solid numbers. having that said that.. it's pretty obvious that other t1 dps classes have fallen a bit behind nothing super major but a tweak or two is needed in my opinion. here are some of my ideas and anyone who feels like chipping in ideas is welcome to but please keep in mind THIS IS NOT a nerf so and so thread. my suggestions: for sorc: replace the WIS end line Sagacity (12% power cost reduction) with a "preparation" like ability. pre nerf nejenas' ring like. wizard: allow full manaburn benefit for fiery blast combos. lock: my lock is still a baby so if anyone has some ideas feel free to post preds: change INT end line Intoxication to a regular proc. make it proc 1.2 times per min or whatever you see fit to replace the abilities current 45 second reuse timer. assassin: allow fatal follow up combo to benefit from AE targets hit by massacre and stealth assault. this would not increase it's all ready satisfactory single target damage but would give some added benefit to ae, something that assassin lacks. ranger: again ranger is low level and thus i can't really come up with anything from current tier experience but i would suggest removing the 5m requirement for the myth buff auto damage and totally remove or greatly cut down on melee range CA's to make ranger a true range melee dps. feel free to add ideas and please keep the negative comments to your self or to other threads devoted to axing other classes <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Beastlords are t1 dps when they are in healing stance.... when they are in feral they are in a tier all by themselves.None of your changes will double the dps of the classes you listed since there are parses of beastlords putting up close to 1 million dps.Beastlords are so far out of line that even if they did bring all other classes up to where they should be it would break the game totally.</blockquote> close to one million dps on what? how close was the next t1 dps class? they aren't that far out of wack and the changes i mentioned would improve damage considerably.</blockquote>Kolskeggr x4 raid. 7mill raidwide dps.From what I read....the next closest dps was 500-600k. So a minimum of a 300k differance compairing equally skilled/geared t1 dps. Yeah...balanced my backside.</blockquote> you mean that one encounter that every one post parses on? how about the rest of the encounters? i never said they where balanced, in fact this entire thread is to give the other t1 dps classes the boost they need. not really understanding why people keep posting their QQ about beastlords here when i specificly posted in the OP that this was not a QQ thread/nerf thread.

Kizee

02-17-2012, 11:08 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> like to start by saying that i'm really happy with my beastlord and please don't touch them unless it's to make them better :p cos it's a really fun play style and completely warrants t1 damage since it requires timing and dedication to your character to put up those solid numbers. having that said that.. it's pretty obvious that other t1 dps classes have fallen a bit behind nothing super major but a tweak or two is needed in my opinion. here are some of my ideas and anyone who feels like chipping in ideas is welcome to but please keep in mind THIS IS NOT a nerf so and so thread. my suggestions: for sorc: replace the WIS end line Sagacity (12% power cost reduction) with a "preparation" like ability. pre nerf nejenas' ring like. wizard: allow full manaburn benefit for fiery blast combos. lock: my lock is still a baby so if anyone has some ideas feel free to post preds: change INT end line Intoxication to a regular proc. make it proc 1.2 times per min or whatever you see fit to replace the abilities current 45 second reuse timer. assassin: allow fatal follow up combo to benefit from AE targets hit by massacre and stealth assault. this would not increase it's all ready satisfactory single target damage but would give some added benefit to ae, something that assassin lacks. ranger: again ranger is low level and thus i can't really come up with anything from current tier experience but i would suggest removing the 5m requirement for the myth buff auto damage and totally remove or greatly cut down on melee range CA's to make ranger a true range melee dps. feel free to add ideas and please keep the negative comments to your self or to other threads devoted to axing other classes <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Beastlords are t1 dps when they are in healing stance.... when they are in feral they are in a tier all by themselves.None of your changes will double the dps of the classes you listed since there are parses of beastlords putting up close to 1 million dps.Beastlords are so far out of line that even if they did bring all other classes up to where they should be it would break the game totally.</blockquote> close to one million dps on what? how close was the next t1 dps class? they aren't that far out of wack and the changes i mentioned would improve damage considerably.</blockquote>Kolskeggr x4 raid. 7mill raidwide dps.From what I read....the next closest dps was 500-600k. So a minimum of a 300k differance compairing equally skilled/geared t1 dps. Yeah...balanced my backside.</blockquote> you mean that one encounter that every one post parses on? how about the rest of the encounters? i never said they where balanced, in fact this entire thread is to give the other t1 dps classes the boost they need. not really understanding why people keep posting their QQ about beastlords here when i specificly posted in the OP that this was not a QQ thread/nerf thread.</blockquote>Why does it matter what encounter it is? If a BL smokes all other t1 dps by 300k on that encounter then pretty sure they will beat them all the encounters.It is pretty clear you have no idea what you are talking about by the ideas you are suggesting.If you boost the classes to what BL's can do then you will have 20+ mill parses and mobs will die in 2 secs. LOL. Easiest way is to "fix" BL's.

Proud_Silence

02-17-2012, 11:24 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> assassin can already keep up with beastlords on single target fights as far as i have seen. the int line proc does about the same damage as the swipe proc when used correctly, it's just that most players don't have that skill set and thus this change would aid that also let it proc on multiple mobs at once. assassin aoe's benefiting FFU would give that ability a big boost on aoe encounters. maybe you should study your parses, abilities and how they all work before posting against my suggestions also you could post some suggestions of your own.</blockquote>- Why should Assassins, or Predators in general, only be able to "keep up" with BST ? They exchange utility for dealing dmg. BST on the other hand has the option to switch to Spiritual stance and become quite a useful utility class. See the fundamental flaw in this ?- Int line proc...seriously...you think by changing one single ability it will change the overall dmg output so drastic ? get real...I've raided with Int spec in SF for months, compared parses to Wis and Sta line. Conclusion; if you use int line for anything outside pvp, you're doing it wrong. Poison dmg has experienced a massive inflation since at least RoK. while it was still a considerable amount of total dps output back then, it is now nothing of any sort of relevance. you're lucky if it show up as 1% of your zonewide dps.- Don't really need any lecture about how FF works. Don't even feel like going deeper into that matter- you want suggestions ? my first one would be to cut BST damage output by 50%. No reason for them to do more damage then Enchanters or bards. But since you don't want nerfs, here's some options how to set things back on track:Predators: double the autoattack multiplier, main selfbuffs granting a base 50% potency/Crit bonusRogues: Main Selfbuff grants 50CB/PotSorcerors: 15% spell double atk, 50%CB/PotSummoners: 5% SDA, 25% CB/Pot, stats shared with petYep, looking at those numbers, i'm sure the genious who came up with the whole BST concept would be proud. Of course it would be much easier and not game destroying to just FIX BST instead of boosting everyone else, but hey...

Kenazeer

02-17-2012, 11:53 AM

<cite>Proud_Silence wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> assassin can already keep up with beastlords on single target fights as far as i have seen. the int line proc does about the same damage as the swipe proc when used correctly, it's just that most players don't have that skill set and thus this change would aid that also let it proc on multiple mobs at once. assassin aoe's benefiting FFU would give that ability a big boost on aoe encounters. maybe you should study your parses, abilities and how they all work before posting against my suggestions also you could post some suggestions of your own.</blockquote>- Why should Assassins, or Predators in general, only be able to "keep up" with BST ? They exchange utility for dealing dmg. BST on the other hand has the option to switch to Spiritual stance and become quite a useful utility class. See the fundamental flaw in this ?- Int line proc...seriously...you think by changing one single ability it will change the overall dmg output so drastic ? get real...I've raided with Int spec in SF for months, compared parses to Wis and Sta line. Conclusion; if you use int line for anything outside pvp, you're doing it wrong. Poison dmg has experienced a massive inflation since at least RoK. while it was still a considerable amount of total dps output back then, it is now nothing of any sort of relevance. you're lucky if it show up as 1% of your zonewide dps.- Don't really need any lecture about how FF works. Don't even feel like going deeper into that matter- you want suggestions ? my first one would be to cut BST damage output by 50%. No reason for them to do more damage then Enchanters or bards. But since you don't want nerfs, here's some options how to set things back on track:Predators: double the autoattack multiplier, main selfbuffs granting a base 50% potency/Crit bonusRogues: Main Selfbuff grants 50CB/PotSorcerors: 15% spell double atk, 50%CB/PotSummoners: 5% SDA, 25% CB/Pot, stats shared with petYep, looking at those numbers, i'm sure the genious who came up with the whole BST concept would be proud. Of course it would be much easier and not game destroying to just FIX BST instead of boosting everyone else, but hey...</blockquote>Correct me if I am wrong here, but...Wasn't CLASS BALANCE the all encompassing reason we were given why BLs would never be added?How's that working out?Sad to see that many customers desirability and relative performance were harmed by SOE pandering to the crowd and going for the easy money grab with BLs.As with a lot of things though, they failed to quite think it through, or to do the job right the first time, and now are left with a bucket of stuff that they can't help but put a stick in and stir.They are now in a position where they must either make AoD buying, BL playing, customers unhappy, leave other customers whose classes are ridicuoulsy outshined unhappy, or break the game to make everyone happy.Tough nut to crack, but the RIGHT solution to balance BLs back to where they need to be in each of their stances. "Offensive" stance on the low-middle end of T1, "defensive" stance back with the rest of the utility pack.

Freejazzlive

02-17-2012, 12:39 PM

<cite>Kenazeer wrote:</cite><blockquote>the RIGHT solution to balance BLs back to where they need to be in each of their stances. "Offensive" stance on the low-middle end of T1, "defensive" stance back with the rest of the utility pack.</blockquote>This, reiterated for truthiness.

Davngr1

02-17-2012, 08:01 PM

<cite>Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why does it matter what encounter it is? If a BL smokes all other t1 dps by 300k on that encounter then pretty sure they will beat them all the encounters.It is pretty clear you have no idea what you are talking about by the ideas you are suggesting.If you boost the classes to what BL's can do then you will have 20+ mill parses and mobs will die in 2 secs. LOL. Easiest way is to "fix" BL's.</blockquote> so can warlocks put up insane damage on all encounters because they can do it on ae encounters? your logic is flawed. i have seen beastlord parses and yes they are a head of the pack but not nearly as drastic as the QQ on this forum.

Davngr1

02-17-2012, 08:03 PM

<cite>Proud_Silence wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> assassin can already keep up with beastlords on single target fights as far as i have seen. the int line proc does about the same damage as the swipe proc when used correctly, it's just that most players don't have that skill set and thus this change would aid that also let it proc on multiple mobs at once. assassin aoe's benefiting FFU would give that ability a big boost on aoe encounters. maybe you should study your parses, abilities and how they all work before posting against my suggestions also you could post some suggestions of your own.</blockquote>- Why should Assassins, or Predators in general, only be able to "keep up" with BST ? They exchange utility for dealing dmg. BST on the other hand has the option to switch to Spiritual stance and become quite a useful utility class. See the fundamental flaw in this ?- Int line proc...seriously...you think by changing one single ability it will change the overall dmg output so drastic ? get real...I've raided with Int spec in SF for months, compared parses to Wis and Sta line. Conclusion; if you use int line for anything outside pvp, you're doing it wrong. Poison dmg has experienced a massive inflation since at least RoK. while it was still a considerable amount of total dps output back then, it is now nothing of any sort of relevance. you're lucky if it show up as 1% of your zonewide dps.- Don't really need any lecture about how FF works. Don't even feel like going deeper into that matter- you want suggestions ? my first one would be to cut BST damage output by 50%. No reason for them to do more damage then Enchanters or bards. But since you don't want nerfs, here's some options how to set things back on track:Predators: double the autoattack multiplier, main selfbuffs granting a base 50% potency/Crit bonusRogues: Main Selfbuff grants 50CB/PotSorcerors: 15% spell double atk, 50%CB/PotSummoners: 5% SDA, 25% CB/Pot, stats shared with petYep, looking at those numbers, i'm sure the genious who came up with the whole BST concept would be proud. Of course it would be much easier and not game destroying to just FIX BST instead of boosting everyone else, but hey...</blockquote> devs will never make those changes and that's a good thing because everything you suggest is braindead faceroll damage increases. i suggest adding different mechanics to boost damage IF the player is willing to put forth the effort. edit. to add that letting poison critical again is another way to boost non-beastlord scouts. oh and would like to add that if there's a beastlord in my assassins group, he gets toxins because i want to increase our groups dps not nerf it.

Loldawg

02-17-2012, 09:43 PM

Would love to see the pet AA added to summoner pets. Seems like there is some interesting interaction with BL pets that adds to the play style - would love to see all these BL enhancements to gameplay make its way over to other pet classes. Maybe make scout classes a viable option. The OP is pro-actively trying to stave off some massive nerf by suggesting some minor enhancements to other classes as if that will solve the problem. Sorry bro - nerf incoming - tho like most said it'll likely be awhile so enjoy while you've got it.

Proud_Silence

02-18-2012, 12:12 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Proud_Silence wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> assassin can already keep up with beastlords on single target fights as far as i have seen. the int line proc does about the same damage as the swipe proc when used correctly, it's just that most players don't have that skill set and thus this change would aid that also let it proc on multiple mobs at once. assassin aoe's benefiting FFU would give that ability a big boost on aoe encounters. maybe you should study your parses, abilities and how they all work before posting against my suggestions also you could post some suggestions of your own.</blockquote>- Why should Assassins, or Predators in general, only be able to "keep up" with BST ? They exchange utility for dealing dmg. BST on the other hand has the option to switch to Spiritual stance and become quite a useful utility class. See the fundamental flaw in this ?- Int line proc...seriously...you think by changing one single ability it will change the overall dmg output so drastic ? get real...I've raided with Int spec in SF for months, compared parses to Wis and Sta line. Conclusion; if you use int line for anything outside pvp, you're doing it wrong. Poison dmg has experienced a massive inflation since at least RoK. while it was still a considerable amount of total dps output back then, it is now nothing of any sort of relevance. you're lucky if it show up as 1% of your zonewide dps.- Don't really need any lecture about how FF works. Don't even feel like going deeper into that matter- you want suggestions ? my first one would be to cut BST damage output by 50%. No reason for them to do more damage then Enchanters or bards. But since you don't want nerfs, here's some options how to set things back on track:Predators: double the autoattack multiplier, main selfbuffs granting a base 50% potency/Crit bonusRogues: Main Selfbuff grants 50CB/PotSorcerors: 15% spell double atk, 50%CB/PotSummoners: 5% SDA, 25% CB/Pot, stats shared with petYep, looking at those numbers, i'm sure the genious who came up with the whole BST concept would be proud. Of course it would be much easier and not game destroying to just FIX BST instead of boosting everyone else, but hey...</blockquote> devs will never make those changes and that's a good thing because everything you suggest is braindead faceroll damage increases. Hint: irony i suggest adding different mechanics to boost damage IF the player is willing to put forth the effort.Because figuring out appropriate rotations as BST depending on what you're fighting is...so much effort ? pretty much the same most close combat classes put forth, need to consider AE's, positioning and when to use CA's and temps and time them with your grp/raid members. Don't see the hard part that justifies being an own league in terms of putting out dmg. edit. to add that letting poison critical again is another way to boost non-beastlord scouts.Sure you wouldn't mind that, considering the currently most potent direct dmg poison is actually usable by BST. The gods of Norrath know why.... oh and would like to add that if there's a beastlord in my assassins group, he gets toxins because i want to increase our groups dps not nerf it.and your point being ... ?</blockquote>

Davngr1

02-18-2012, 12:48 AM

<cite>Proud_Silence wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Proud_Silence wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> assassin can already keep up with beastlords on single target fights as far as i have seen. the int line proc does about the same damage as the swipe proc when used correctly, it's just that most players don't have that skill set and thus this change would aid that also let it proc on multiple mobs at once. assassin aoe's benefiting FFU would give that ability a big boost on aoe encounters. maybe you should study your parses, abilities and how they all work before posting against my suggestions also you could post some suggestions of your own.</blockquote>- Why should Assassins, or Predators in general, only be able to "keep up" with BST ? They exchange utility for dealing dmg. BST on the other hand has the option to switch to Spiritual stance and become quite a useful utility class. See the fundamental flaw in this ?- Int line proc...seriously...you think by changing one single ability it will change the overall dmg output so drastic ? get real...I've raided with Int spec in SF for months, compared parses to Wis and Sta line. Conclusion; if you use int line for anything outside pvp, you're doing it wrong. Poison dmg has experienced a massive inflation since at least RoK. while it was still a considerable amount of total dps output back then, it is now nothing of any sort of relevance. you're lucky if it show up as 1% of your zonewide dps.- Don't really need any lecture about how FF works. Don't even feel like going deeper into that matter- you want suggestions ? my first one would be to cut BST damage output by 50%. No reason for them to do more damage then Enchanters or bards. But since you don't want nerfs, here's some options how to set things back on track:Predators: double the autoattack multiplier, main selfbuffs granting a base 50% potency/Crit bonusRogues: Main Selfbuff grants 50CB/PotSorcerors: 15% spell double atk, 50%CB/PotSummoners: 5% SDA, 25% CB/Pot, stats shared with petYep, looking at those numbers, i'm sure the genious who came up with the whole BST concept would be proud. Of course it would be much easier and not game destroying to just FIX BST instead of boosting everyone else, but hey...</blockquote> devs will never make those changes and that's a good thing because everything you suggest is braindead faceroll damage increases. Hint: irony i suggest adding different mechanics to boost damage IF the player is willing to put forth the effort.Because figuring out appropriate rotations as BST depending on what you're fighting is...so much effort ? pretty much the same most close combat classes put forth, need to consider AE's, positioning and when to use CA's and temps and time them with your grp/raid members. Don't see the hard part that justifies being an own league in terms of putting out dmg. edit. to add that letting poison critical again is another way to boost non-beastlord scouts.Sure you wouldn't mind that, considering the currently most potent direct dmg poison is actually usable by BST. The gods of Norrath know why.... oh and would like to add that if there's a beastlord in my assassins group, he gets toxins because i want to increase our groups dps not nerf it.and your point being ... ?</blockquote></blockquote>look guy..<div> you seem like one of those "i'm so 1337" raiderzzz types.. yes, beastlord isn't any harder to play than other dps classes but it's not any easier and yes i do agree that they are doing too much damage over other T1 classes. the reason i made this thread is because i rather them stay right where they are and other dps classes get new toys because new abilities and way to tweak out my damage classes is fun. to all you "i'm so 1337" raiderzzzz posting your "you don't know I KNOW" b*llS**t.. uhmm.. the beastlords doing this insane damage have MYTHICAL WEAPONS no other class in game right now has those and when they do i'm sure they will catch up but even with mythical weapons for all, other T1 classes need a boost and actually i think summoners should just be T1 as well since they don't really offer that much more utility than anyone or anything else.</div>

Freejazzlive

02-18-2012, 02:22 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>yes, beastlord isn't any harder to play than other dps classes but it's not any easier</blockquote>Nonsense: Beastlord is definitely easier to play than Swashie or Brigand, since you have far fewer positionals or attacks requiring stealth. There isn't a single thing justifying BL DPS .... except for SOE's desire to not anger those who bought AoD strictly for the BL.You need to face a simple fact about EQ2 game balance: historically, SOE has never, ever, ever buffed up other classes. They have always nerfed the ones which stand out. There's a good reason for this: if you buff up the other classes, you're buffing them past the content. It's thus much easier, & more sensible, to nerf the class which is standing out. Thus, it is almost inevietable that BLs will be nerfed, & since that's true, it ought to happen sooner than later.

Laenai

02-18-2012, 03:21 PM

SeregWethrin

02-18-2012, 11:01 PM

Beastlords are actually the hardest class to play and get high dps number by far, you have to remember the people pulling those big parses have gmed all their pets which probably takes about twice what it takes to get 320 aa maybe even 3 times.also most of our big primals and advantages all require positioning or stealth and managing your feral rampage level vs the drain takes paying constant attention to your savagry levels.The other thing is people are whining about 700 or 800k dps beastlords on that burn fight when I have seen an assassin hit 900k on that same fight when everyone puts their dps buffs on them, that fight is not a realistic test of a classes dps.Like any other classes beastlords have flaws as well, the most noticable that any class can out dps at ranged even an assassin with half the gear a beastlord has would outdps him on a ranged fight. They also have no aoe dps abilities to speak of that dont require savagry where again any other class even an assassin will outdamage a beastlord on aoe fights. The other thing is that beastlords require their pet to be alive to do damage which takes a lot of micro managing on any fight with aoes or cures since they get no pet cure. Your talking about parses on a fight thats cherry picked for beastlord dps thats never a reliable parsing fight anyways because if you put all your dps buffs on one dpser of course their going to have insane dps that fight.Of course they parse high on purely single target fight that is not aoe heavy so they do not have to worry about their pet as much. If you look at the average raid fight beastlords rank pretty evenly with the other dps classes with them being lower or lowest on multiple mob fights or fights where there is a lot of aoe damage with them shining on single target dps where they can stay in close constantly.

Davngr1

02-19-2012, 01:29 AM

<cite>Freejazzlive wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>yes, beastlord isn't any harder to play than other dps classes but it's not any easier</blockquote>Nonsense: Beastlord is definitely easier to play than Swashie or Brigand, since you have far fewer positionals or attacks requiring stealth. There isn't a single thing justifying BL DPS .... except for SOE's desire to not anger those who bought AoD strictly for the BL.You need to face a simple fact about EQ2 game balance: historically, SOE has never, ever, ever buffed up other classes. They have always nerfed the ones which stand out. There's a good reason for this: if you buff up the other classes, you're buffing them past the content. It's thus much easier, & more sensible, to nerf the class which is standing out. Thus, it is almost inevietable that BLs will be nerfed, & since that's true, it ought to happen sooner than later.</blockquote> maybe the utility can't be justified but the damage is acceptable as long other dps classes get a some new abilities to be brought up to BL current level. brigs aren't any harder to play than BL or any other scout/mage. they all play differently and the fact that you can absolutly screw up and parse terribad is proof that they aren't a face roll class. gear/buffs being equal of course since gear is so dam overpowerd right now.

SeregWethrin

02-19-2012, 02:39 AM

The thing is it is mainly on kolskeggr and gunnr where beastlords parse abnormally high 90% of the endgame fights beastlords are perfectly balanced and parse evenly with other dps depending on the fights mechanicsThe other thing is the other classes should get their mythical upgrade in april when dov part 2 comes out, thats one reason beastlords parse better than the other classes is because they have a much better weapon.Also just because a beastlord parsed 900k and the next person was 700k that tells you nothing, what buffs did the bl have what buffs did the second class have did the mob have high magic resist, most of the parses you see on eq2flames are artifially inflated by having the person in an ideal group for them with the best buffs on them.

Odys

02-19-2012, 11:18 AM

Funny when two monthes ago i claimed that my BL test was ridiculously OP people denied.Raising other t1 dps will raise issues : agro , non t1 classes lagging backward etc ....Except ajusting all classes i don't see a solution, Tuning down Blord would be way easier.

Freejazzlive

02-19-2012, 11:47 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>the fact that you can absolutly screw up and parse terribad is proof that they aren't a face roll class. </blockquote>It's more difficult to screw up as a BL than as a Brigand. The class is simply too versatile & too powerful for itself.I'm willing to concede that a level 90 BL is probably more difficult than a level 40 BL, but I'm having an extremely hard time believing that it's "the hardest class to play," as another poster claimed.

Freejazzlive

02-19-2012, 11:50 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> maybe the utility can't be justified but the damage is acceptable as long other dps classes get a some new abilities to be brought up to BL current level.</blockquote>SOE does not, historically, respond to an OP class by buffing similar classes. I've already explained why they don't, & why it's not even a good idea to do so.Instead, SOE has historically responded to OP classes by nerfing the OP class, & that is almost certainly what will be done with BL "soon."

Davngr1

02-19-2012, 07:33 PM

<cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>Funny when two monthes ago i claimed that my BL test was ridiculously OP people denied.Raising other t1 dps will raise issues : agro , non t1 classes lagging backward etc ....Except ajusting all classes i don't see a solution, Tuning down Blord would be way easier.</blockquote> BL's aren't that far ahead. dev's just made it way too easy to get good weapons/gear as a beastlord by making it part of their epic quest and giving them mythical weapons from a mob that is currently being killed. i'm almost certain that with these small changes and or with other "new abilities" other t1 classes would fall in line. i'm not totally against all the other classes getting some new stuff as well since in fact it has been a year since the last AA were added. <cite>Freejazzlive wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> maybe the utility can't be justified but the damage is acceptable as long other dps classes get a some new abilities to be brought up to BL current level.</blockquote>SOE does not, historically, respond to an OP class by buffing similar classes. I've already explained why they don't, & why it's not even a good idea to do so.Instead, SOE has historically responded to OP classes by nerfing the OP class, & that is almost certainly what will be done with BL "soon."</blockquote> wrong.. soe usually nerfs said classes and boost all the others at the same time and that should not happen to beastlords.

Asif

02-20-2012, 12:32 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>Funny when two monthes ago i claimed that my BL test was ridiculously OP people denied.Raising other t1 dps will raise issues : agro , non t1 classes lagging backward etc ....Except ajusting all classes i don't see a solution, Tuning down Blord would be way easier.</blockquote> BL's aren't that far ahead. dev's just made it way too easy to get good weapons/gear as a beastlord by making it part of their epic quest and giving them mythical weapons from a mob that is currently being killed. i'm almost certain that with these small changes and or with other "new abilities" other t1 classes would fall in line. i'm not totally against all the other classes getting some new stuff as well since in fact it has been a year since the last AA were added.<cite>Freejazzlive wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> maybe the utility can't be justified but the damage is acceptable as long other dps classes get a some new abilities to be brought up to BL current level.</blockquote>SOE does not, historically, respond to an OP class by buffing similar classes. I've already explained why they don't, & why it's not even a good idea to do so.Instead, SOE has historically responded to OP classes by nerfing the OP class, & that is almost certainly what will be done with BL "soon."</blockquote> wrong.. soe usually nerfs said classes and boost all the others at the same time and that should not happen to beastlords.</blockquote>Maybe that should not happen to BL but we know its going to one way or another .

Elskidor

02-20-2012, 02:01 AM

<cite>Freejazzlive wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>the fact that you can absolutly screw up and parse terribad is proof that they aren't a face roll class. </blockquote>It's more difficult to screw up as a BL than as a Brigand. The class is simply too versatile & too powerful for itself.I'm willing to concede that a level 90 BL is probably more difficult than a level 40 BL, but I'm having an extremely hard time believing that it's "the hardest class to play," as another poster claimed.</blockquote>Cause it's not. It's not as easy as a Dirge, but it's pretty dang close. If your thinking a Bst is hard to play then you should probably quit tbh.

SeregWethrin

02-20-2012, 06:33 AM

In equal gear with fully mastered toons on average beastlords perform about the same overall on a raid compared to other t1's they do the best on burn fights with little jousting and aoes or cures but tend to be below the other dps classes on any fights that their pet will die from aoe attacks. For instance any jousting fights actually lower a beastlords dps conciderably compared to other t1 classes because they can not keep up feral rampage levels easily and have no real ranged dps.I think a big part of the issue is a lot of players just look at the parse or play a beastlord up to 40 and have no idea how the endgame works or exactly how complicated beastlords mechanics really are when you look at them in depth, like how they have to grandmaster at least 6 pets to do that much dps which takes a long time and how most of the end game primals they use are actually positional or require stealth.I honestly think that in feral they are tuned about right, they require a lot more work than people think to put out those big numbers. you have a stacking buff that you have to manage that drains your feral rampage bar and have to gear accordingly to be able to keep it at those levels with enough recast to get 3 skills off in less than 2 seconds every time to pull off those numbers and keep your rampage level up, its actually fairly easy to mess up the timing and have to redo getting your feral rampage level back up, which is where a lot of their dps comes from.I do agree that the spiritual stance is a little overpowered, I think that they need to nerf the autoattack dps a lot more you do in it by about 15% in its current form and decide whether they want it to be a tanky stance or a healing stance, as it seems to be in between the two right now, and if they go with a more healing orientated stance they should nerf the dps by about 30% in that stance.They should also remove the ability to swap stances so fast by adding a 15 second cooldown, that would fix a lot of issues people have with them having dps and utility if they had to be useless for 15 seconds to swap stances in battle, right now its way to easy to swap stances in battle. The other thing is that you are looking at parses where the beastlords have a weapons that's probably 20% better than anything anyone else can get when the mythical update in dov part 2 comes out most of the other classes should be about equal to the beastlord.

Freejazzlive

02-20-2012, 02:37 PM

<cite>Meube@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>If your thinking a Bst is hard to play then you should probably quit tbh. </blockquote>I'm not thinking any such thing. I'm merely acknowledging that at level 90 they might be more difficult than they are at level 40. This compares high level BL to lower level BL, not to any other class.At level 40, BLs are even more embarassingly brain-dead easy than any other class I've ever played. I don't see how anyone can stand to level one up to 90.

Loldawg

02-24-2012, 07:54 PM

In less than ideal fights - AOEs, pet deaths, etc - Beastlords still top T1 DPS classes. In ideal scenarios its not even close. Call that balanced if you want but I think it's pretty clear that they are in a class above T1.

Tunnelcat

02-24-2012, 11:04 PM

Im actually curious now, I keep seeing the term "faceroll" classes but no one actually mentions the classes that are considered to be "faceroll" easy. Are there actually any "faceroll" dps classes?

daray

02-26-2012, 11:27 AM

Sorry, but (feral) beastlords are in a tier of their own, and the numbers I have seen being thrown around from top-end raiders support that. Now the spread between well-played beastlords and terrible ones is much larger than for any other class (and it wouldn't surprise me if SOE probably takes average numbers into account when balancing classes). However, that doesn't detract from the fact that at the top-end of that spread, beastlords are significantly overpowered.There is no way that you can balance beastlords by bumping all other classes up to match them, because (even assuming SOE gets the balance between all the classes correct in that scenario), it is just going to completely break content (especially raid content) due to the significantly increased raid-wide damage output (which will easily trivialize most encounters).That means the only logical way to balance beastlords, is by nerfing them to bring them into line with other dps classes (in feral) and other utility classes (in spiritual). And doing this is also much easier than your alternative, which would need many times the work.The reason I assume the devs have held off on retuning Beastlords for so long, is to maximize sales on AoD - but perhaps that is just me being cynical.

Davngr1

02-26-2012, 02:44 PM

<cite>daray wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sorry, but (feral) beastlords are in a tier of their own, and the numbers I have seen being thrown around from top-end raiders support that. Now the spread between well-played beastlords and terrible ones is much larger than for any other class (and it wouldn't surprise me if SOE probably takes average numbers into account when balancing classes). However, that doesn't detract from the fact that at the top-end of that spread, beastlords are significantly overpowered.There is no way that you can balance beastlords by bumping all other classes up to match them, because (even assuming SOE gets the balance between all the classes correct in that scenario), it is just going to completely break content (especially raid content) due to the significantly increased raid-wide damage output (which will easily trivialize most encounters).That means the only logical way to balance beastlords, is by nerfing them to bring them into line with other dps classes (in feral) and other utility classes (in spiritual). And doing this is also much easier than your alternative, which would need many times the work.The reason I assume the devs have held off on retuning Beastlords for so long, is to maximize sales on AoD - but perhaps that is just me being cynical.</blockquote>thanks for posting man. i really think that when the other dps scouts have two mythical weaps like high end beastlords do now along with a new abilitiy or two there will be balance. wiz on the other hand needs a bigger boost than that. you don't think that having "preparation" clicky back would give a big boost to wiz? that along with a boost to manaburn effectiveness should help close the gap but then again my wiz is postly for bg's.

Felshades

02-26-2012, 09:43 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite><blockquote>So instead of rebalancing one class you suggest they tweak all the rest?</blockquote> these other classes have needed tweaks for a while now.. beastlords just made the troubles stand out more.</blockquote>It's less time consuming and resource consuming to gut the snot out of the beastlords than it is to fix the others.You been around here long? Should know this by now.

Felshades

02-26-2012, 09:46 PM

<cite>Freejazzlive wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>yes, beastlord isn't any harder to play than other dps classes but it's not any easier</blockquote>Nonsense: Beastlord is definitely easier to play than Swashie or Brigand, since you have far fewer positionals or attacks requiring stealth. There isn't a single thing justifying BL DPS .... except for SOE's desire to not anger those who bought AoD strictly for the BL.You need to face a simple fact about EQ2 game balance: historically, SOE has never, ever, ever buffed up other classes. They have always nerfed the ones which stand out. There's a good reason for this: if you buff up the other classes, you're buffing them past the content. It's thus much easier, & more sensible, to nerf the class which is standing out. Thus, it is almost inevietable that BLs will be nerfed, & since that's true, it ought to happen sooner than later.</blockquote>Buying an expansion just for a class that people bought hearing how OP they were is just dumb.If that is the reason anyone bought the expansion, to play an OP class, then they deserve the nerf imo.

Felshades

02-26-2012, 09:47 PM

<cite>SeregWethrin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Beastlords are actually the hardest class to play and get high dps number by far, you have to remember the people pulling those big parses have gmed all their pets which probably takes about twice what it takes to get 320 aa maybe even 3 times.</blockquote>Guildmate of mine's level 42 beastlord alt has most of his pets grandmastered.LEVEL. 42. BEASTLORD.Maybe the ones that got powerlevelled have taken a long time to max them out but yeah...

Davngr1

02-28-2012, 12:34 AM

<cite>Meridia@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite><blockquote>So instead of rebalancing one class you suggest they tweak all the rest?</blockquote> these other classes have needed tweaks for a while now.. beastlords just made the troubles stand out more.</blockquote>It's less time consuming and resource consuming to gut the snot out of the beastlords than it is to fix the others.You been around here long? Should know this by now.</blockquote>the point of this thread is: classes haven't had any new abilities in a long time. i would rather take this chance to get some new stuff and the resource consuming is necessary and appreciated.. i play this game to play evolving fun classes (that's the point of an progression game ya know?) not to play the same class with nothing new for 2 years...

DamselInDistress

02-28-2012, 06:43 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>the point of this thread is: classes haven't had any new abilities in a long time. i would rather take this chance to get some new stuff and the resource consuming is necessary and appreciated.. i play this game to play evolving fun classes (that's the point of an progression game ya know?) not to play the same class with nothing new for 2 years... </blockquote>you do, of course, realise that EQ2 has a very small team still working on it. I suppose you've noticed people quitting and being moved onto othe projects. What's left now is what ? 2 developers maybe and they have to produce this huge content that's been promised for GU63 ( which is already delayed by 2 months ), not to mention the beautiful SC items which are the main priority now.Bottom line is ... do you really think they will start to work on 24 classes now or at any point in the future ?Eq2 is dead, SOE killed it for us.

Yimway

02-28-2012, 01:45 PM

<cite>daray wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is no way that you can balance beastlords by bumping all other classes up to match them, because (even assuming SOE gets the balance between all the classes correct in that scenario), it is just going to completely break content (especially raid content) due to the significantly increased raid-wide damage output (which will easily trivialize most encounters).</blockquote>Um no, you're wrong here.They're not going to ballance it out till the next expansion (next year?) and at that point we have new content, and the new balanced dps doesn't necesarily break new content, since well, it was created with the new numbers in mind.

Trynt

02-28-2012, 02:19 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>daray wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is no way that you can balance beastlords by bumping all other classes up to match them, because (even assuming SOE gets the balance between all the classes correct in that scenario), it is just going to completely break content (especially raid content) due to the significantly increased raid-wide damage output (which will easily trivialize most encounters).</blockquote>Um no, you're wrong here.They're not going to ballance it out till the next expansion (next year?) and at that point we have new content, and the new balanced dps doesn't necesarily break new content, since well, it was created with the new numbers in mind.</blockquote>He's not wrong, because he's speaking in present tense.

Yimway

02-28-2012, 02:22 PM

<cite>Trynt wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Um no, you're wrong here.They're not going to ballance it out till the next expansion (next year?) and at that point we have new content, and the new balanced dps doesn't necesarily break new content, since well, it was created with the new numbers in mind.</blockquote>He's not wrong, because he's speaking in present tense.</blockquote>Hoping for class balance issues to be addressed outside of an expansion pack? Might as well dream big.I'm quite certain we won't see any real fixes and adjustments until we have an expansion. In fact, I'm certain releasing the BL's as they are now with a near content void expansion was intended so people have something to treadmill waiting for the next one.

Trynt

02-28-2012, 02:25 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trynt wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Um no, you're wrong here.They're not going to ballance it out till the next expansion (next year?) and at that point we have new content, and the new balanced dps doesn't necesarily break new content, since well, it was created with the new numbers in mind.</blockquote>He's not wrong, because he's speaking in present tense.</blockquote>Hoping for class balance issues to be addressed outside of an expansion pack? Might as well dream big.I'm quite certain we won't see any real fixes and adjustments until we have an expansion. In fact, I'm certain releasing the BL's as they are now with a near content void expansion was intended so people have something to treadmill waiting for the next one.</blockquote>That's true, and also addressed in the part of Daray's post that you left out. That doesn't change the fact that if all classes received a dps boost to match BLs, content would be trivialized. It would.

Yimway

02-28-2012, 03:00 PM

<cite>Trynt wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>I'm quite certain we won't see any real fixes and adjustments until we have an expansion. In fact, I'm certain releasing the BL's as they are now with a near content void expansion was intended so people have something to treadmill waiting for the next one.</blockquote>That's true, and also addressed in the part of Daray's post that you left out. That doesn't change the fact that if all classes received a dps boost to match BLs, content would be trivialized. It would.</blockquote>Sure, which is further justication not to address it until the next expansion...They are not going to commit marketing suicide by nerfing BL's durring this expansion. Of this, I'm certain.

Trynt

02-28-2012, 03:35 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trynt wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>I'm quite certain we won't see any real fixes and adjustments until we have an expansion. In fact, I'm certain releasing the BL's as they are now with a near content void expansion was intended so people have something to treadmill waiting for the next one.</blockquote>That's true, and also addressed in the part of Daray's post that you left out. That doesn't change the fact that if all classes received a dps boost to match BLs, content would be trivialized. It would.</blockquote>Sure, which is further justication not to address it until the next expansion...They are not going to commit marketing suicide by nerfing BL's durring this expansion. Of this, I'm certain.</blockquote>Neither Daray nor I suggested that BL's will get nerfed during this expansion. The post you quoted even said as much if you read the whole thing. Other dps classes will also not get a balancing boost this expansion, so that is also a moot point. That doesn't change the fact that the latter would trivialize content when the former would not. Since neither is likely to happen, I suppose it doesn't matter.

Davngr1

02-28-2012, 07:07 PM

<cite>Trynt wrote:</cite><blockquote> That doesn't change the fact that if all classes received a dps boost to match BLs, content would be trivialized. It would.</blockquote>new content is coming out and there is still current content that has not been killed (part of the reason why bl's are so far above everyone, they have two mythical weapons). new content can be tuned for damage balancing and even current content, with crit mitt being removed an HP boost to accommodate for extra damage wouldn't be that huge of a deal. also BL's are only head and shoulders above everyone else on easy content, once you factor in heavy aoe's or jousting BL's fall in line (gear/skill equal of course)

Trynt

02-28-2012, 10:07 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>once you factor in heavy aoe's or jousting BL's fall in line (gear/skill equal of course)</blockquote>Sorry, no. They do not fall in line. They have their own line.

Davngr1

02-28-2012, 10:15 PM

<cite>Trynt wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>once you factor in heavy aoe's or jousting BL's fall in line (gear/skill equal of course)</blockquote>Sorry, no. They do not fall in line. They have their own line.</blockquote> if a BL can't keep his pet alive his damage falls drasticlly it all depends on how good your other T1 damage classes are and what content you're killing. there's no doubt that geared BL's are on top right now(more so if they have two myth weapons and the other dps classes don't) but it's not as much as people tend to allude to, in these forums.

DamselInDistress

03-01-2012, 05:58 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> if a BL can't keep his pet alive his damage falls drasticlly it all depends on how good your other T1 damage classes are and what content you're killing. there's no doubt that geared BL's are on top right now(more so if they have two myth weapons and the other dps classes don't) but it's not as much as people tend to allude to, in these forums.</blockquote>I have to lol at the bold bit.It's more actually. It's ridiculous OP but don't worry, your BL won't get nerfed any time soon. There's hardly anyone left to actually do it.

Chronus1

03-01-2012, 08:44 PM

A forum thread exists on another site that you can probably guess that has a Beastlord at 916k dps on Hardmode shoulders mob with the next best being 150k or more behind. I mean having beastlords a bit op ok but this is just a bit much in my opinion.

Loldawg

03-01-2012, 08:53 PM

This has nothing to do w/ mythicals. Other scouts w/ mythicals would still be far behind. Even on AOE fights with jousting and pet deaths BL are far ahead of the pack. The player would have to be brain dead to be "in line". And the fact that mage loot drops 1/3 as much as scout loot, and that there are no mage mythicals yet in game just adds to the imbalance. It's not even close, arguing that it is, is silly. I agree that none of this will likely be remedied until next year, people are just getting their BL's myth'd now.

Chronus1

03-02-2012, 02:36 PM

If they keep them op until most have their mythicals it's going to be a long and unacceptable wait, casual guilds can't get hm statue down and to the update goes for 25k+ plat still...

Tunnelcat

03-02-2012, 03:15 PM

<cite>Chronus1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>If they keep them op until most have their mythicals it's going to be a long and unacceptable wait, casual guilds can't get hm statue down and to the update goes for 25k+ plat still...</blockquote>Thats insane to spend that much plat on anything

Yimway

03-02-2012, 04:48 PM

<cite>Tunnelcat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Chronus1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>If they keep them op until most have their mythicals it's going to be a long and unacceptable wait, casual guilds can't get hm statue down and to the update goes for 25k+ plat still...</blockquote>Thats insane to spend that much plat on anything</blockquote>What pray tell, should I spend my plat on?

Davngr1

03-02-2012, 06:54 PM

<cite>Loldawg@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>This has nothing to do w/ mythicals. Other scouts w/ mythicals would still be far behind. Even on AOE fights with jousting and pet deaths BL are far ahead of the pack. The player would have to be brain dead to be "in line". And the fact that mage loot drops 1/3 as much as scout loot, and that there are no mage mythicals yet in game just adds to the imbalance. It's not even close, arguing that it is, is silly. I agree that none of this will likely be remedied until next year, people are just getting their BL's myth'd now. </blockquote>having two mythical weaps is a huge advantage.. that along with Bl's having better damage abilities is what puts them on top. give all the other plaeyrs mythicals (specialy scouts) and some tweaks and they should be in line.<cite>Chronus1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>A forum thread exists on another site that you can probably guess that has a Beastlord at 916k dps on Hardmode shoulders mob with the next best being 150k or more behind. I mean having beastlords a bit op ok but this is just a bit much in my opinion.</blockquote>ok.. that's ONE fight and it's the fight every single beastlord post. now post some other fighths to compare. not saying they aren't op right now just saying that one one parse don't mean jack.

Davngr1

03-02-2012, 06:55 PM

Soul_Dreamer

03-05-2012, 08:41 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Loldawg@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>This has nothing to do w/ mythicals. Other scouts w/ mythicals would still be far behind. Even on AOE fights with jousting and pet deaths BL are far ahead of the pack. The player would have to be brain dead to be "in line". And the fact that mage loot drops 1/3 as much as scout loot, and that there are no mage mythicals yet in game just adds to the imbalance. It's not even close, arguing that it is, is silly. I agree that none of this will likely be remedied until next year, people are just getting their BL's myth'd now. </blockquote>having two mythical weaps is a huge advantage.. that along with Bl's having better damage abilities is what puts them on top. give all the other plaeyrs mythicals (specialy scouts) and some tweaks and they should be in line.<cite>Chronus1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>A forum thread exists on another site that you can probably guess that has a Beastlord at 916k dps on Hardmode shoulders mob with the next best being 150k or more behind. I mean having beastlords a bit op ok but this is just a bit much in my opinion.</blockquote>ok.. that's ONE fight and it's the fight every single beastlord post. now post some other fighths to compare. not saying they aren't op right now just saying that one one parse don't mean jack.</blockquote>It's not just 1 mob, some of the below HM mobs have very large AOE's and yet the pet still lives, it's pretty easy to keep a pet and scout alive with AOE avoids on the scout and AOE Avoid proc for the pet on the mythicals. If Myths fail then the AA death save on pet will kick in if the BL has it.Please remember these aren't his parses, they're the difference between His BL (Number 1 on Parse) and the second person on parse)Posted on the "Site that cannot be named" <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />"but in sullon's last night the gaps between me and second were 299k on gregor, 150k on hragold, 120k on mrogr, 111k on spider, and 114k on sullon (both myself and second miracle'd on sullon)."

Davngr1

03-05-2012, 07:15 PM

<cite>Soul_Dreamer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Loldawg@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>This has nothing to do w/ mythicals. Other scouts w/ mythicals would still be far behind. Even on AOE fights with jousting and pet deaths BL are far ahead of the pack. The player would have to be brain dead to be "in line". And the fact that mage loot drops 1/3 as much as scout loot, and that there are no mage mythicals yet in game just adds to the imbalance. It's not even close, arguing that it is, is silly. I agree that none of this will likely be remedied until next year, people are just getting their BL's myth'd now. </blockquote>having two mythical weaps is a huge advantage.. that along with Bl's having better damage abilities is what puts them on top. give all the other plaeyrs mythicals (specialy scouts) and some tweaks and they should be in line.<cite>Chronus1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>A forum thread exists on another site that you can probably guess that has a Beastlord at 916k dps on Hardmode shoulders mob with the next best being 150k or more behind. I mean having beastlords a bit op ok but this is just a bit much in my opinion.</blockquote>ok.. that's ONE fight and it's the fight every single beastlord post. now post some other fighths to compare. not saying they aren't op right now just saying that one one parse don't mean jack.</blockquote>It's not just 1 mob, some of the below HM mobs have very large AOE's and yet the pet still lives, it's pretty easy to keep a pet and scout alive with AOE avoids on the scout and AOE Avoid proc for the pet on the mythicals. If Myths fail then the AA death save on pet will kick in if the BL has it.Please remember these aren't his parses, they're the difference between His BL (Number 1 on Parse) and the second person on parse)Posted on the "Site that cannot be named" <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />"but in sullon's last night the gaps between me and second were 299k on gregor, 150k on hragold, 120k on mrogr, 111k on spider, and 114k on sullon (both myself and second miracle'd on sullon)."</blockquote> don't misunderstand me, bl's do have overpowered ca's/abilities but adjustments to other dps classes could remedy that. the fact is that most dps classes haven't seen anything new since dov and that's why i would rather get something new than see bl's nerfed. also you have to take into account that having two mythical weapons for a scout is a HUGE advantage because it modifies auto attack damage exponentially.

Soul_Dreamer

03-05-2012, 09:37 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Soul_Dreamer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Loldawg@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>This has nothing to do w/ mythicals. Other scouts w/ mythicals would still be far behind. Even on AOE fights with jousting and pet deaths BL are far ahead of the pack. The player would have to be brain dead to be "in line". And the fact that mage loot drops 1/3 as much as scout loot, and that there are no mage mythicals yet in game just adds to the imbalance. It's not even close, arguing that it is, is silly. I agree that none of this will likely be remedied until next year, people are just getting their BL's myth'd now. </blockquote>having two mythical weaps is a huge advantage.. that along with Bl's having better damage abilities is what puts them on top. give all the other plaeyrs mythicals (specialy scouts) and some tweaks and they should be in line.<cite>Chronus1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>A forum thread exists on another site that you can probably guess that has a Beastlord at 916k dps on Hardmode shoulders mob with the next best being 150k or more behind. I mean having beastlords a bit op ok but this is just a bit much in my opinion.</blockquote>ok.. that's ONE fight and it's the fight every single beastlord post. now post some other fighths to compare. not saying they aren't op right now just saying that one one parse don't mean jack.</blockquote>It's not just 1 mob, some of the below HM mobs have very large AOE's and yet the pet still lives, it's pretty easy to keep a pet and scout alive with AOE avoids on the scout and AOE Avoid proc for the pet on the mythicals. If Myths fail then the AA death save on pet will kick in if the BL has it.Please remember these aren't his parses, they're the difference between His BL (Number 1 on Parse) and the second person on parse)Posted on the "Site that cannot be named" <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />"but in sullon's last night the gaps between me and second were 299k on gregor, 150k on hragold, 120k on mrogr, 111k on spider, and 114k on sullon (both myself and second miracle'd on sullon)."</blockquote> don't misunderstand me, bl's do have overpowered ca's/abilities but adjustments to other dps classes could remedy that. the fact is that most dps classes haven't seen anything new since dov and that's why i would rather get something new than see bl's nerfed. also you have to take into account that having two mythical weapons for a scout is a HUGE advantage because it modifies auto attack damage exponentially.</blockquote>No other scout in game will see a pair of Mythicals for how long? Since only a handful have dropped so far. The ones from Tallon/Vallon haven't even been discod. I'm not even going to argue about whether Beastlords should have even ever been given a pair of myths from their quest.Even if scouts suddenly got 1 pair of Myths, it's a big ask to make up those parses with weapons alone.If DPS classes are boosted up to Beastlord levels then raid wide DPS will be insane, expect to see 10 million +. Then how do you expect tanks to hold hate? Bump them up as well.. But then what about the now huge gap between Utility/Heals and T1 DPS and Tank DPS.. buff them up as well? Please, get real, Beastlords need to be brought down..

Davngr1

03-06-2012, 03:23 AM

<cite>Soul_Dreamer wrote:</cite><blockquote>No other scout in game will see a pair of Mythicals for how long? Since only a handful have dropped so far. The ones from Tallon/Vallon haven't even been discod. I'm not even going to argue about whether Beastlords should have even ever been given a pair of myths from their quest.Even if scouts suddenly got 1 pair of Myths, it's a big ask to make up those parses with weapons alone.If DPS classes are boosted up to Beastlord levels then raid wide DPS will be insane, expect to see 10 million +. Then how do you expect tanks to hold hate? Bump them up as well.. But then what about the now huge gap between Utility/Heals and T1 DPS and Tank DPS.. buff them up as well? Please, get real, Beastlords need to be brought down..</blockquote> i have seen plenty of parses from the best beastlord WW and yes he's head and shoulders above the rest of the dps but you have to take into account the fact that he has two myth weapons. once you realize that that's a huge boost for him then you can take into account the fact that none of the classes have seen any new abilities for the last year. that is what i would like to see.. new class abilities and i'm almost 100% certain that new abilities along with a serious boost to mythical weapon drops would bring everyone up to par. suggesting that players won't continue to get better and better abilities is nonsense. what i really don't want to see is beastlord get nerfed while all the other classes get new better stuff.. cos that sucks for everyone.

Soul_Dreamer

03-06-2012, 09:40 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Soul_Dreamer wrote:</cite><blockquote>No other scout in game will see a pair of Mythicals for how long? Since only a handful have dropped so far. The ones from Tallon/Vallon haven't even been discod. I'm not even going to argue about whether Beastlords should have even ever been given a pair of myths from their quest.Even if scouts suddenly got 1 pair of Myths, it's a big ask to make up those parses with weapons alone.If DPS classes are boosted up to Beastlord levels then raid wide DPS will be insane, expect to see 10 million +. Then how do you expect tanks to hold hate? Bump them up as well.. But then what about the now huge gap between Utility/Heals and T1 DPS and Tank DPS.. buff them up as well? Please, get real, Beastlords need to be brought down..</blockquote> i have seen plenty of parses from the best beastlord WW and yes he's head and shoulders above the rest of the dps but you have to take into account the fact that he has two myth weapons. once you realize that that's a huge boost for him then you can take into account the fact that none of the classes have seen any new abilities for the last year. that is what i would like to see.. new class abilities and i'm almost 100% certain that new abilities along with a serious boost to mythical weapon drops would bring everyone up to par. suggesting that players won't continue to get better and better abilities is nonsense. what i really don't want to see is beastlord get nerfed while all the other classes get new better stuff.. cos that sucks for everyone.</blockquote>A pair of Myth weapons isn't 200k DPS, and I have taken it into account, some of the best players have said this isn't the whole issue and even with a pair of Myths they wouldn't be able to keep up. With the way Mythicals are dropping it's just another thing to add to the imbalance of beastlords.So to recap.You think Beastlords are fine and other T1 DPS should be brought up to their level. This includes:Warlock/Wizard/Congy/Necro/Swashy/Brigand/Assassin/Ranger.In order to actually keep tanks balanced and able to hold hate we'll then have to make upgrades to:Guardian/Monk/Bruiser/Paladin/Shadowknight/Zerker.Then the gap between Tanks and Utility classes will have grown so they'll need a buff, this includes:Troubs/Dirges/Illusionists/Coercer.Now healers are the only ones left behind in DPS. Fine, they do enough already, lets leave them were they are.But now we still have the issue of Mythicals so lets up the drop rate across the board for the Mythical weapons to compensate....And you think ALL of the above, buff 18 classes and increase mth drop rates, is more deserving, easier and the "Way forward" rather than just bringing Beastlord DPS down to the other T1 DPS? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />Personally, if I was doing it I'd also reduce the Rating and stats of the Beastlord offhand Myth to HM Fabled level and change it's tag to Fabled so they don't have a pair of Myths and need the scout one as the off hand like all other scouts. This is just my personal opinion though. Regarding "New and better stuff" for other classes, or me "Suggesting that players won't get better and better abilities", I have no idea what you're even on about. What classes do you think are going to suddenly be buffed? The answer is None.

Wigg

03-06-2012, 12:03 PM

<cite>Soul_Dreamer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Soul_Dreamer wrote:</cite><blockquote>No other scout in game will see a pair of Mythicals for how long? Since only a handful have dropped so far. The ones from Tallon/Vallon haven't even been discod. I'm not even going to argue about whether Beastlords should have even ever been given a pair of myths from their quest.Even if scouts suddenly got 1 pair of Myths, it's a big ask to make up those parses with weapons alone.If DPS classes are boosted up to Beastlord levels then raid wide DPS will be insane, expect to see 10 million +. Then how do you expect tanks to hold hate? Bump them up as well.. But then what about the now huge gap between Utility/Heals and T1 DPS and Tank DPS.. buff them up as well? Please, get real, Beastlords need to be brought down..</blockquote> i have seen plenty of parses from the best beastlord WW and yes he's head and shoulders above the rest of the dps but you have to take into account the fact that he has two myth weapons. once you realize that that's a huge boost for him then you can take into account the fact that none of the classes have seen any new abilities for the last year. that is what i would like to see.. new class abilities and i'm almost 100% certain that new abilities along with a serious boost to mythical weapon drops would bring everyone up to par. suggesting that players won't continue to get better and better abilities is nonsense. what i really don't want to see is beastlord get nerfed while all the other classes get new better stuff.. cos that sucks for everyone.</blockquote>A pair of Myth weapons isn't 200k DPS, and I have taken it into account, some of the best players have said this isn't the whole issue and even with a pair of Myths they wouldn't be able to keep up. With the way Mythicals are dropping it's just another thing to add to the imbalance of beastlords.So to recap.You think Beastlords are fine and other T1 DPS should be brought up to their level. This includes:Warlock/Wizard/Congy/Necro/Swashy/Brigand/Assassin/Ranger.In order to actually keep tanks balanced and able to hold hate we'll then have to make upgrades to:Guardian/Monk/Bruiser/Paladin/Shadowknight/Zerker.Then the gap between Tanks and Utility classes will have grown so they'll need a buff, this includes:Troubs/Dirges/Illusionists/Coercer.Now healers are the only ones left behind in DPS. Fine, they do enough already, lets leave them were they are.But now we still have the issue of Mythicals so lets up the drop rate across the board for the Mythical weapons to compensate....And you think ALL of the above, buff 18 classes and increase mth drop rates, is more deserving, easier and the "Way forward" rather than just bringing Beastlord DPS down to the other T1 DPS? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />Personally, if I was doing it I'd also reduce the Rating and stats of the Beastlord offhand Myth to HM Fabled level and change it's tag to Fabled so they don't have a pair of Myths and need the scout one as the off hand like all other scouts. This is just my personal opinion though. Regarding "New and better stuff" for other classes, or me "Suggesting that players won't get better and better abilities", I have no idea what you're even on about. What classes do you think are going to suddenly be buffed? The answer is None. </blockquote>Easy way to put Wizards in line with Beastlords.... Fiery Blast crits.

Soul_Dreamer

03-06-2012, 12:21 PM

You need to make up about 100k DPS.To do that with 1 spell with a min re-use of 75 seconds (2 min 30 base) you're looking at it hitting for 7.5 million, which brings it back to Tanks keeping hate.

Davngr1

03-06-2012, 06:59 PM

<cite>Soul_Dreamer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Soul_Dreamer wrote:</cite><blockquote>No other scout in game will see a pair of Mythicals for how long? Since only a handful have dropped so far. The ones from Tallon/Vallon haven't even been discod. I'm not even going to argue about whether Beastlords should have even ever been given a pair of myths from their quest.Even if scouts suddenly got 1 pair of Myths, it's a big ask to make up those parses with weapons alone.If DPS classes are boosted up to Beastlord levels then raid wide DPS will be insane, expect to see 10 million +. Then how do you expect tanks to hold hate? Bump them up as well.. But then what about the now huge gap between Utility/Heals and T1 DPS and Tank DPS.. buff them up as well? Please, get real, Beastlords need to be brought down..</blockquote> i have seen plenty of parses from the best beastlord WW and yes he's head and shoulders above the rest of the dps but you have to take into account the fact that he has two myth weapons. once you realize that that's a huge boost for him then you can take into account the fact that none of the classes have seen any new abilities for the last year. that is what i would like to see.. new class abilities and i'm almost 100% certain that new abilities along with a serious boost to mythical weapon drops would bring everyone up to par. suggesting that players won't continue to get better and better abilities is nonsense. what i really don't want to see is beastlord get nerfed while all the other classes get new better stuff.. cos that sucks for everyone.</blockquote>A pair of Myth weapons isn't 200k DPS, and I have taken it into account, some of the best players have said this isn't the whole issue and even with a pair of Myths they wouldn't be able to keep up. With the way Mythicals are dropping it's just another thing to add to the imbalance of beastlords.So to recap.You think Beastlords are fine and other T1 DPS should be brought up to their level. This includes:Warlock/Wizard/Congy/Necro/Swashy/Brigand/Assassin/Ranger.In order to actually keep tanks balanced and able to hold hate we'll then have to make upgrades to:Guardian/Monk/Bruiser/Paladin/Shadowknight/Zerker.Then the gap between Tanks and Utility classes will have grown so they'll need a buff, this includes:Troubs/Dirges/Illusionists/Coercer.Now healers are the only ones left behind in DPS. Fine, they do enough already, lets leave them were they are.But now we still have the issue of Mythicals so lets up the drop rate across the board for the Mythical weapons to compensate....And you think ALL of the above, buff 18 classes and increase mth drop rates, is more deserving, easier and the "Way forward" rather than just bringing Beastlord DPS down to the other T1 DPS? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />Personally, if I was doing it I'd also reduce the Rating and stats of the Beastlord offhand Myth to HM Fabled level and change it's tag to Fabled so they don't have a pair of Myths and need the scout one as the off hand like all other scouts. This is just my personal opinion though. Regarding "New and better stuff" for other classes, or me "Suggesting that players won't get better and better abilities", I have no idea what you're even on about. What classes do you think are going to suddenly be buffed? The answer is None. </blockquote>let me break this down really easy like.. new expansion = new abilities for all classes. this expansion has yet to roll out new stuff and thus these new abilities could be used to bridge the gap. how is that hard to understand? i don't care what people you talk to say.. i raid a scout and i know for a fact that better weapons are huge factor in damage. also you have this 200k damage number like regular raiding beastlords are all doing 200k over everyone else. that only happens when you have a beastlord with mythical weapons and with a perfect setup group. you're talking out of your a$$ or are deliberately trying to blow this out of proportion either way your logic is flawed.

Fitz

03-06-2012, 07:10 PM

I see six pages of Davangr trolling so many people. The fact that beastlords are out of balance is incredibly obvious. They must be adjusted, as waiting for new content (new abilities Dav?) to be released is asinine. They're currently the only truly functional class in the new stat system, which causes them to shine out in a plethora of broken mechanics. Break them, too, end of story.

SOE-MOD-04

03-06-2012, 10:27 PM

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=500111&post_id=5728809" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50011...post_id=5728809</a> Removed for trolling

Neskonlith

03-06-2012, 11:36 PM

Something needs to be done "for the greater good of the game", and it must not wait for "new content" because balance needs to be restored.SOE has already set a precedent of not waiting for a new expansion before "fixing" a class. Never forget that SOE recently reduced Dirge dps by ~33% in between expansions because that OP utility class had the ability to perform exceptionally well in the right hands, which I assume must have threatened to break content.Beastlords are no exception to this concept of the "greater good of the game", and they must also be adjusted to fall in line with all of the rest of the classes.

SOE-MOD-04

03-06-2012, 11:42 PM

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=500111&post_id=5728830" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50011...post_id=5728830</a> Removed for trolling

Davngr1

03-07-2012, 01:06 AM

READ THE ORIGINAL POST! this is a thread ASKING FOR NEW ABILITIES in light of beastlords having better abilities currently than other T1 classes. MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, THIS IS MY THREAD. i STARTED this thread! for the disccusion of possible new abilities! btw.. rose color glasses? are you serious? RoK = new spell/more aa TSO = new AA/ more AASF = new AA/ more AADoV = new AA/more AA AoD = more AA see what's missing there? SEE WHY I MADE THIS THREAD? classes DO need to HAVE new stuff or at least tweak stuff classes all ready have.. *Let's keep the post respectful please*

Besual

03-07-2012, 06:15 AM

Yeah, it's always better to make 24 classes broken too (and the game a completly broken one) then to fix a single class.PS: I found the sollution - a new Skill (cast instand / recast 0.5sec) => kills all mobs in the current zone. That would make every one equal!

SOE-MOD-04

03-07-2012, 06:29 AM

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=500111&post_id=5728911" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50011...post_id=5728911</a> Removed for trolling

SeregWethrin

03-07-2012, 08:33 AM

Honestly this thread needs locked, it has turned into is people whining without posting any parses or any constructive feedback.All these people complaining about beastlord dps can not produce one single parse on anything other than gunnr or kolskeggar. If you want any changed to happen you need to post a parse lasting at least TWO minutes showing the raids dps breakdown, the beastlords dps breakdown, and the second persons dps breakdown, All three screenshots, until you do beastlords are never going to be changed, yes they do insane dps on those burn fights, but those are never fair parses.Yes, do beastlords need a little tweaking with their damage, and its mostly in certain circumstances(fights under 1 minute), but it goes both ways, it some circumstances beastlords do absolutely terrible dps, mostly any ranged fights and to a lesser extent jousting/movement heavy fights, a guardian could probably outdps them at ranged. A parse with a beastlord will never be fair unless you produce one that last at least 2 minutes, just because of the mechanics of how beastlords work they are always going to be top dps on any boss fight that lasts under 1 min which both of those mentioned mobs with the insane parses usually die in about 1 min or a little less.

Soul_Dreamer

03-07-2012, 10:47 AM

Flames > Beastlord Section > Beastlord Parse Thread.You'll see the majority of parses you don't think exist.Beastlords do Terrible DPS when there is a Terrible player playing them, not because of the class, there are very very few "Ranged" fights. If you can't co-ordinate AOE Avoids and debuffs to allow the 3-4 DPS scouts in a raid to stay in and DPS it's not the classes fault <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Davngr1

03-07-2012, 01:47 PM

<cite>Besual wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah, it's always better to make 24 classes broken too (and the game a completly broken one) then to fix a single class.PS: I found the sollution - a new Skill (cast instand / recast 0.5sec) => kills all mobs in the current zone. That would make every one equal!</blockquote> how is giving classes the new abilities that are owed to them breaking anything? new expansion, new abilities. has been that way for EVER.

Davngr1

03-07-2012, 01:48 PM

<cite>DamselInDistress wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>READ THE ORIGINAL POST! this is a thread ASKING FOR NEW ABILITIES in light of beastlords having better abilities currently than other T1 classes. MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, THIS IS MY THREAD. i STARTED this thread! for the disccusion of possible new abilities! btw.. rose color glasses? are you serious? RoK = new spell/more aa TSO = new AA/ more AASF = new AA/ more AADoV = new AA/more AA AoD = more AA see what's missing there? SEE WHY I MADE THIS THREAD? classes DO need to HAVE new stuff or at least tweak stuff classes all ready have.. *Let's keep the post respectful please*</blockquote>You may or may not have a point. Your English is so poor though and your attitude screams 10 years old. I am thinking maybe wow is better suited to you. Or English classes .... whatever.</blockquote> i'm posting on a VIDEO GAME BOARD not writing an engrish term paper.. k?

Davngr1

03-07-2012, 01:53 PM

<cite>Soul_Dreamer wrote:</cite><blockquote>Flames > Beastlord Section > Beastlord Parse Thread.You'll see the majority of parses you don't think exist.Beastlords do Terrible DPS when there is a Terrible player playing them, not because of the class, there are very very few "Ranged" fights. If you can't co-ordinate AOE Avoids and debuffs to allow the 3-4 DPS scouts in a raid to stay in and DPS it's not the classes fault <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote> those parses are from top geared players in best possible groups.. ever since i first touched a lvl 90 beastlord in beta i knew that the class would compete with my wiz and assassin for damage and totally blow away my necro and brig. only bad players that don't understand the game need to see parses to prove anything, so please stop bringing them up. no one is disputing the fact that beastlord abilities/ca's are OP compared to other classes. the point of the thread is that, the other classes need something new or at least some tweaks.

Davngr1

03-07-2012, 01:54 PM

to TERMINATOR 2 SOE MOD: just having some fun man.. :p

Kizee

03-07-2012, 05:58 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Soul_Dreamer wrote:</cite><blockquote>Flames > Beastlord Section > Beastlord Parse Thread.You'll see the majority of parses you don't think exist.Beastlords do Terrible DPS when there is a Terrible player playing them, not because of the class, there are very very few "Ranged" fights. If you can't co-ordinate AOE Avoids and debuffs to allow the 3-4 DPS scouts in a raid to stay in and DPS it's not the classes fault <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote> those parses are from top geared players in best possible groups.. ever since i first touched a lvl 90 beastlord in beta i knew that the class would compete with my wiz and assassin for damage and totally blow away my necro and brig. only bad players that don't understand the game need to see parses to prove anything, so please stop bringing them up. no one is disputing the fact that beastlord abilities/ca's are OP compared to other classes. the point of the thread is that, the other classes need something new or at least some tweaks.</blockquote>By compeating with assassin and wiz you mean destroying.What does it matter if they are top geared players in the best possiable groups? We are not compairing top end players to some scrub raid guild...we are compairing them to their peers.

SOE-MOD-08

03-07-2012, 11:47 PM

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=500098&post_id=5729300" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50009...post_id=5729300</a> Trolling.

SOE-MOD-04

03-08-2012, 06:38 AM

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=500111&post_id=5729387" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50011...post_id=5729387</a> Removed for trolling

SOE-MOD-04

03-08-2012, 10:16 AM

Just a quick reminder, please stay on topic, be respectful to one another and watch the profanity even if it's abbreviated or shortened, the intention is clear.

Gaealiege

03-08-2012, 05:42 PM

Someone just post several parses here so the vocally ignorant can search for the exit.

Davngr1

03-08-2012, 06:56 PM

<cite>Gaealiege@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Someone just post several parses here so the vocally ignorant can search for the exit.</blockquote>funny thing is that i know exactly what beastlords are able to do because i have seen the parses and play a beast lord.everyone all ready knows that beastlord ca's/abilities are bit over the top. the problem is taht most ignorant people posting here don't understand that those huge numbers are mostly do to the fact that they have two myth weapons (while other scouts don't have any) and are getting the absolute best group set up and support possible. so who's ignorant? the people who just look at numbers but don't understand how those numbers came to be, great job.

Proud_Silence

03-08-2012, 09:11 PM

It's not just Beastlords with Mythicals dominating parses. On Nagafen at least freeport side no guild is killing myth mob, and i'm in top progression guild and see beastlords easily dominating parses every raid. We have a Conji who is on top of parses on multi-mob encounters and assassin usually winning on single targets and "complex" named encounters (where conji pet dies) - that's when no Beastlord is in raid... as soon as the BST joins, there's no chance on winning parses other then irrelevant trash parses or if the BST gets the shortbus grp cause joined late.I can't really be bothered to screenshot and post parses because frankly it's just one person that keeps trying to deny the fact that BST is just outright overpowered, not as much by the gear but the whole mechanic of how Primals etc work.I've been hoping to see any official word on whether or not there's any plans for Beastlords, like a timeframe on when to expect a serious re-evaluation of the class. Or just a statement that this is exactly what the idea behind beastlords was, so i can stop raiding with a class that has no future.

Davngr1

03-09-2012, 12:40 AM

<cite>Proud_Silence wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's not just Beastlords with Mythicals dominating parses. On Nagafen at least freeport side no guild is killing myth mob, and i'm in top progression guild and see beastlords easily dominating parses every raid. We have a Conji who is on top of parses on multi-mob encounters and assassin usually winning on single targets and "complex" named encounters (where conji pet dies) - that's when no Beastlord is in raid... as soon as the BST joins, there's no chance on winning parses other then irrelevant trash parses or if the BST gets the shortbus grp cause joined late.I can't really be bothered to screenshot and post parses because frankly it's just one person that keeps trying to deny the fact that BST is just outright overpowered, not as much by the gear but the whole mechanic of how Primals etc work.I've been hoping to see any official word on whether or not there's any plans for Beastlords, like a timeframe on when to expect a serious re-evaluation of the class. Or just a statement that this is exactly what the idea behind beastlords was, so i can stop raiding with a class that has no future.</blockquote>not quite sure if people even read before they post banter because i'm 100% sure i said taht beastlord ca's abilities are indeed overpowerd and that's why other classes need some new stuff. the other people here are crying about mythical beastlords that perfect groups that truly can't be touched by other dps classes. when the beastlord has no myth and a "short bus" as you said even their overpowerd abilities aren't enough to let them dominate and that's why the new stuff for other classes would fix the current issues along with two mythicals for everyone.thanks for proving my point. now please stop de-railing my thread and post some ways to spruce up non-BL AA.

Necrotherian

03-09-2012, 02:58 PM

<cite>DamselInDistress wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>the point of this thread is: classes haven't had any new abilities in a long time. i would rather take this chance to get some new stuff and the resource consuming is necessary and appreciated.. i play this game to play evolving fun classes (that's the point of an progression game ya know?) not to play the same class with nothing new for 2 years... </blockquote>you do, of course, realise that EQ2 has a very small team still working on it. I suppose you've noticed people quitting and being moved onto othe projects. What's left now is what ? 2 developers maybe and they have to produce this huge content that's been promised for GU63 ( which is already delayed by 2 months ), not to mention the beautiful SC items which are the main priority now.Bottom line is ... do you really think they will start to work on 24 classes now or at any point in the future ?Eq2 is dead, SOE killed it for us.</blockquote>Y'know, I keep hearing this. Does anyone have a link or a screenshot showing them promise a February release? March 4th was 5 days ago, and that would have been the 90-day mark (counting AoD release date). That date is the earliest we could reasonably expect a GU. To be delayed by two months, it would have to be delayed until May 3rd.But if you have a screenshot or a link showing that a "red name" stated that the upcoming GU would be in February, by all means, show it.

Fitz

03-09-2012, 04:18 PM

I'm not sure why I'm posting again in the logic void that is Davangr's troll thread, but one last time: A BL outshines every and all other dps classes in the same setup. He can parse well with in a mage group or a scout group; give him a scout group or MT group and no one can compete. No one. This is even true for many BLs in lower content with only their Epics, not their Mythicals (to preempt that vapid retort). It is 100% clear upon using quite elementary reason that the BL is blatantly unbalanced. There is no way around it. Bringing all classes up to where the BL currently reigns would be game breaking, as adding that much dps to raids would make raiding coupled with the crit mit removal. I urge all people who have legitimate feedback on this issue to avoid this thread, as you will only draw hostility from the ”owner” of this thread. Use /feedback or different threads...you'll just get raged at here.

Yimway

03-09-2012, 04:23 PM

<cite>Fitz wrote:</cite><blockquote> I urge all people who have legitimate feedback on this issue to avoid this thread, as you will only draw hostility from the ”owner” of this thread. Use /feedback or different threads...you'll just get raged at here.</blockquote>There's no point. SoE is fully aware of what the class is and its potential, and it was done by design.We wont see this significantly addressed until next expansion. Nerfing BL's durring the BL expansion is marketing suicide and I trust SOE not to be that dumb.We just all have to take a bite of this 'brown' sandwhich and deal with it till expansion.

DamselInDistress

03-09-2012, 04:23 PM

<cite>Rotherian@Unrest_old wrote:</cite><blockquote>Y'know, I keep hearing this. Does anyone have a link or a screenshot showing them promise a February release? March 4th was 5 days ago, and that would have been the 90-day mark (counting AoD release date). That date is the earliest we could reasonably expect a GU. To be delayed by two months, it would have to be delayed until May 3rd.But if you have a screenshot or a link showing that a "red name" stated that the upcoming GU would be in February, by all means, show it.</blockquote>Do a bit of search and you'll find SJ saying it several times. It's not just me saying it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

Necrotherian

03-09-2012, 04:56 PM

<cite>DamselInDistress wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rotherian@Unrest_old wrote:</cite><blockquote>Y'know, I keep hearing this. Does anyone have a link or a screenshot showing them promise a February release? March 4th was 5 days ago, and that would have been the 90-day mark (counting AoD release date). That date is the earliest we could reasonably expect a GU. To be delayed by two months, it would have to be delayed until May 3rd.But if you have a screenshot or a link showing that a "red name" stated that the upcoming GU would be in February, by all means, show it.</blockquote>Do a bit of search and you'll find SJ saying it several times. It's not just me saying it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />.</blockquote>I expanded my search to the internet at large and all I found were a bunch of references to people saying that they thought that it was supposed to be in February, and a FF timeline posted by Kalian which showed the Freeport revamp happening in November and GUs 63 and 64 happening in February and May, respectively in <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=30&topic_id=513995" target="_blank">this</a> thread. Funny thing is, I was at Fan Faire, and I don't recall those months being listed; I only recall them attaching the planned content for each GU. My memory is far from perfect, so I'll give that one the benefit of a doubt. I'll also do some searching and see if I can't find the slide show they posted on YouTube from last years FF. If I find that one, I'll be sure to post it here so that we can all see what it says, regardless whether it supports my position or not.Edit: I watched the EQ2 FF2011 panel videos and the only reference to that content, that I could find, was <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndYI-knjQNU" target="_blank">here</a> at approximately 14:08. Note that he makes no references to specific dates. He just states what content should be expected from each GU. The only video I can't find is the Overview. If someone has a link to that video, please share it.

Davngr1

03-09-2012, 07:26 PM

<cite>Fitz wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm not sure why I'm posting again in the logic void that is Davangr's troll thread, but one last time: A BL outshines every and all other dps classes in the same setup. He can parse well with in a mage group or a scout group; give him a scout group or MT group and no one can compete. No one. This is even true for many BLs in lower content with only their Epics, not their Mythicals (to preempt that vapid retort). It is 100% clear upon using quite elementary reason that the BL is blatantly unbalanced. There is no way around it. Bringing all classes up to where the BL currently reigns would be game breaking, as adding that much dps to raids would make raiding coupled with the crit mit removal. I urge all people who have legitimate feedback on this issue to avoid this thread, as you will only draw hostility from the ”owner” of this thread. Use /feedback or different threads...you'll just get raged at here.</blockquote> you might get a lil flamed if you can't stick to the topic of the thread but that does not mean that i'm not making concise arguments against all the ignorant cry babys posting for nerfs. lets imagine for a second that you're the magic bullet and windstalker? new dev decided that your insight is best for the game and did what you ask. so we nerf beastlords and they now parse the same as other T1 classes.. a month later everyone starts killing the myth dropping mobs or they increase drop rate (this should have all ready happened) and all the now balanced dps classes get a considerable boost from myths, beastlords are now under the rest of dps classes. grats on removing a key dps class from your raid force. further more we end up with nothing new for the next year because if they did give us anything new then beastlord would be even further behind. see that? see how monumental the fail would be if we did what the cry babys want? that's why i formed my original post the way i did, because i'm smarter than the average bear boo boo! sorry if that was too hurtful for you and you now feel you need run away from this thread!

Raknid

03-09-2012, 09:44 PM

<cite>Rotherian@Unrest_old wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DamselInDistress wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rotherian@Unrest_old wrote:</cite><blockquote>Y'know, I keep hearing this. Does anyone have a link or a screenshot showing them promise a February release? March 4th was 5 days ago, and that would have been the 90-day mark (counting AoD release date). That date is the earliest we could reasonably expect a GU. To be delayed by two months, it would have to be delayed until May 3rd.But if you have a screenshot or a link showing that a "red name" stated that the upcoming GU would be in February, by all means, show it.</blockquote>Do a bit of search and you'll find SJ saying it several times. It's not just me saying it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />.</blockquote>I expanded my search to the internet at large and all I found were a bunch of references to people saying that they thought that it was supposed to be in February, and a FF timeline posted by Kalian which showed the Freeport revamp happening in November and GUs 63 and 64 happening in February and May, respectively in <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=30&topic_id=513995" target="_blank">this</a> thread. Funny thing is, I was at Fan Faire, and I don't recall those months being listed; I only recall them attaching the planned content for each GU. My memory is far from perfect, so I'll give that one the benefit of a doubt. I'll also do some searching and see if I can't find the slide show they posted on YouTube from last years FF. If I find that one, I'll be sure to post it here so that we can all see what it says, regardless whether it supports my position or not.Edit: I watched the EQ2 FF2011 panel videos and the only reference to that content, that I could find, was <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndYI-knjQNU" target="_blank">here</a> at approximately 14:08. Note that he makes no references to specific dates. He just states what content should be expected from each GU. The only video I can't find is the Overview. If someone has a link to that video, please share it.</blockquote>EQ2Wire, is, has been, and always will be, a treasure trove of accurate info. hint hint.

Necrotherian

03-09-2012, 11:58 PM

<cite>Raknid wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rotherian@Unrest_old wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DamselInDistress wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rotherian@Unrest_old wrote:</cite><blockquote>Y'know, I keep hearing this. Does anyone have a link or a screenshot showing them promise a February release? March 4th was 5 days ago, and that would have been the 90-day mark (counting AoD release date). That date is the earliest we could reasonably expect a GU. To be delayed by two months, it would have to be delayed until May 3rd.But if you have a screenshot or a link showing that a "red name" stated that the upcoming GU would be in February, by all means, show it.</blockquote>Do a bit of search and you'll find SJ saying it several times. It's not just me saying it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />.</blockquote>I expanded my search to the internet at large and all I found were a bunch of references to people saying that they thought that it was supposed to be in February, and a FF timeline posted by Kalian which showed the Freeport revamp happening in November and GUs 63 and 64 happening in February and May, respectively in <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=30&topic_id=513995" target="_blank">this</a> thread. Funny thing is, I was at Fan Faire, and I don't recall those months being listed; I only recall them attaching the planned content for each GU. My memory is far from perfect, so I'll give that one the benefit of a doubt. I'll also do some searching and see if I can't find the slide show they posted on YouTube from last years FF. If I find that one, I'll be sure to post it here so that we can all see what it says, regardless whether it supports my position or not.Edit: I watched the EQ2 FF2011 panel videos and the only reference to that content, that I could find, was <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndYI-knjQNU" target="_blank">here</a> at approximately 14:08. Note that he makes no references to specific dates. He just states what content should be expected from each GU. The only video I can't find is the Overview. If someone has a link to that video, please share it.</blockquote>EQ2Wire, is, has been, and always will be, a treasure trove of accurate info. hint hint.</blockquote>If you clicked the link you'd see that Feldon was the one that posted the video that I linked. Still looking for a video showing something other than what SJ stated in the video that I linked. To reiterate, I'm looking for either a post on here by a red name or a video that shows SJ stating that the timeline for GU63 was supposed to be February. Heck, I'd even settle for a link to a tweet by SJ, or any EQ2 dev announcing a targeted February release. I'm not looking for other players saying that they thought that an SOE employee said that it was supposed to be February. That is just hearsay.I'm not trying to be a fanboy (yay, I can spell "fanboy" correctly), nor am I trying to defend SOE. It is only that I have heard several people state that it was officially announced, but I haven't seen a shred of proof that this was so. I don't remember it being officially stated, so I am relying on those who stated that it was announced. If someone can provide a link to an official announcement about there being a GU63 release in February (not an invitation to search through 8 months of posts on another site), I will concede. Until then, however, we will have to just agree to disagree.Back to the OPs subject, it is highly unlikely, although it is just within the realm of the possible, that they will boost 24, 18, 9, or even 6 classes to be on par with BLs. That being the case, a nerf is more likely. Note that I'm not advocating or opposing a nerf, since my two BLs will likely never be my main characters. (In case you are wondering, I have two because one is good and one is evil.) They would be shooting themselves in the foot if they nerfed it before GU65, but they haven't exactly proved themselves averse to counterproductive actions, so anything is possible.

SOE-MOD-16

03-10-2012, 12:41 PM

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SOE-MOD-16

03-10-2012, 06:31 PM

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SOE-MOD-16

03-11-2012, 01:59 PM

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Chronus1

03-11-2012, 08:41 PM

Just because nobody has posted these in this thread yet. Yeh he used miracles, yeh he had a great group set up, yeh they're stupid burn fights and buffs were stacked to him. But show me the class besides beastlord that can put out those numbers, can any other class hit 700k on kolskeggr yet even?<img src="http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/Chronus2/Beastlordparse2.jpg" /><img src="http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/Chronus2/Beastlordparse1.jpg" />

Darkor

03-12-2012, 06:47 AM

Crazy numbers. BL are indeed OP atm. We cant just adjust all other classes up, it would ruin balancing against PvE. Most logical choice would be dumping down BL by about 25%.

Neiloch

03-12-2012, 10:09 AM

<cite>Darkor@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Crazy numbers. BL are indeed OP atm. We cant just adjust all other classes up, it would ruin balancing against PvE. Most logical choice would be dumping down BL by about 25%.</blockquote>Not if the new batch of content is tuned for it as well. Not like the last tier of PvE content quickly becoming obsolete/steamrolled by pick-up raids at the release of a new tier would be anything new.I'm HOPING that instead of just tuning down beastlords or 'tuning up' classes they give other classes beastlord-similar abilities. Possibly even consolidating some of the bloated ability pools we have now. SJ did say if people liked beastlords they were definitely open to applying the same mechanics to other classes. Matter of fact predators got a beastlord type attack before beastlords were released. Of course this is just part of a secondary dream that some how, some way it would allow rangers to become truly ranged instead of a scout that uses a bow at 5 meters rather than melee weapons.

DamselInDistress

03-12-2012, 11:06 AM

You guys still miss the point.1. Look at how many fixes ( updates ) SOE has done recently.2. Look how many people are left working on SOE.3. Read about SOE financial misery.You really think they will have the resources to do anything at this point ? What you have now is all you're gonna get until the game closes down. It's time you face reality.

Odys

03-12-2012, 12:46 PM

What is amusing with those parses is that 80-90% of the damage is done doing nothing. It comes from auto-attack and proc. If you look at what was the active damage (i mean CA and BL special attack) you get at most 20% of the damage.If mecanic was making any sense we should see the opposite : 30% max from passive damage and 70% from active one.Eq2 is indeed completely ruined.

Davngr

03-12-2012, 05:59 PM

that's becausehe gets double the benefit from procs from having a pet along with having enough personal damage to be T1 with out the pet and having mythical weapons and the perfect group/support. at any rate.. this is a thread about giving other classes new abilities something that happens every year or so not about nerfing beastlords. no clue how all of you people clearly posting off topic don't get your post deleted for trolling.

Davngr

03-12-2012, 06:05 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> here are some of my ideas and anyone who feels like chipping in ideas is welcome to but please keep in mind THIS IS NOT a nerf so and so thread.</blockquote> here you go.. think some of you must have missed this along with mod's

Chronus1

03-12-2012, 06:18 PM

Ok then I won't call for nerfs. But somthing is off, totally off. Somthing needs to be done and if not nerfs buffs to other classes. Heck it might even make raid content easier and see increased progression if predators, summoners, sorcerers and rogues were buffed dps wise although it would be a nightmare to balance.

Davngr

03-12-2012, 06:25 PM

this thread was aimed at dps classes but there's no reason why every classes should not be getting some type of new abilities to go along with the new content at some point in the near future. the talks about "balance" are unfounded, it's not hard to add more hp to mobs or reduce kill times allotted on harder content.

Encien

03-12-2012, 08:08 PM

Something people need to notice about these parses is the duration of the fights. Which were 51 secs and 50 secs. Then add in how much spike damage a beast lord is. Also if they were in combat before the named to for the beast lord to have their bar fill for max primals from the get go. Not going to even talk about stacked buffs. Giving those few things, yes you can have parse like that. Personally I want to see an post from a fight that takes a few mintues to kill. That way we can get a true view on how dps stacks. But this is just what I think. P.s. I do have a beast lord and an assassin. Giving the right settings either one can top the parse by 150k.

Chronus1

03-12-2012, 08:49 PM

This following fight is an add based fight that spawn at certain time period and then stop spawning once the named hits 45% and then he proceeds to do a large trauma aoe followed by a frontal deathtouch. Lasted a bit longer but due to rw dps no adds. The spike damage will be reduced enough I guess due to 2m39s fight?<img src="http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/Chronus2/beastlordparse4.jpg" />Also "I'm not going to post the full parses because I'm too lazy to track every person down to ask if they mind, but in sullon's last night the gaps between me and second were 299k on gregor, 150k on hragold, 120k on mrogr, 111k on spider, and 114k on sullon (both myself and second miracle'd on sullon)." ~ BuffratxNot calling for a nerf, presenting facts, your decision as to whether what action the information needs.

Davngr

03-13-2012, 01:04 AM

i have had parses from buff and the rest of the raid linked to me and yes he is ahead on most fights and yes that is do to beastlords having better ca's/abilities then everyone else right now but it's also because he has two myth weapons and great support along with being a superb player. my assassin has raided with many of beastlords and maybe one out parsed me and he has way better (gear wise)than my assassin.

Proud_Silence

03-13-2012, 03:46 AM

Pain to get a parse ready for posting so only got one for now, but they all look pretty much alike.All players on this parse have EM gear, the odd HM gloves and forearms here and there. None of the BST have mythsBST do not just blow everyone else out of the water in full HM gear + Myths, they do it across the boards in all tiers and gear levels.Maybe they aren't doing 100k more dmg then the second, but in relation to the other dps'ers they're unreachable ahead,. I might post the Eireen parse later, BST doing over 40% more dmg then second on parse, and Eireen is not a pure burn fight.<a href="http://postimage.org/image/4v1i44bdp/full/" target="_blank"><img src="http://s14.postimage.org/vsvf5uw0x/Kreegar.jpg" border="0" /></a><a href="http://postimage.org/" target="_blank">upload images</a>

SeregWethrin

03-13-2012, 07:37 AM

One that parse looks very suspicious when you blank out all the names and dont even show all the meaningful stats like hit rate. Also in the EM levels beastlords are always going to outparse anyone else because their fabled epic is the equivilent of having two hardmode weapons and with their myths they have a advantage over anyone else. If you look at a beastlords parse most of the damage they do is melee/proc dps.also again a parse under 2 minutes, I agree that beastlords are overpowered in any battle lasting under 2 minutes just because of the way their skills and cooldowns work and this could use a little balancing. The fact of the matter is that its only on these short sub 2-3 minute fights though.You have to remember the beastlord class is the best burst dps class in the game when they have a full primal bar. They should do 2 or 3 times what any other class can do in a 30 seconds span when they burn their primals with their two cooldowns(its a minimum of around 5 million damage in a 30 second period probably closer to 10 or 15 with someone who knows what they are doing in just em gear). Thats why they parse so well on these short fights, they play to their strengths.I do think that they need to do a little tweaking, but on most fights its not as drastic as people make it sound its mostly on the shorter fights that beastlord abilities need tweaking or other classes need better burst abilities to match up with the beastlord on these shorter fights.The other thing is that people are somewhat exploiting the mechanic in a way it was never really meant to be used to keep savagry level 6. The drain seems like it was meant to encourage you to use your primals all at once for a short term buff or even build up over time to level 6 then it should drain all your savagry what happens though is with enough haste/skill reuse and proper skill management you can keep max feral rampage longer than it was intended.Honestly the easy fix would be to have reaching max feral rampage reset your savagry to 0 or have a much higher drain unless you use freeze so you get a max of 30 seconds of max level feral rampage before you have to build back up savagry.

Wigg

03-13-2012, 10:26 AM

<cite>SeregWethrin wrote:</cite><blockquote>One that parse looks very suspicious when you blank out all the names and dont even show all the meaningful stats like hit rate. Also in the EM levels beastlords are always going to outparse anyone else because their fabled epic is the equivilent of having two hardmode weapons and with their myths they have a advantage over anyone else. If you look at a beastlords parse most of the damage they do is melee/proc dps.also again a parse under 2 minutes, I agree that beastlords are overpowered in any battle lasting under 2 minutes just because of the way their skills and cooldowns work and this could use a little balancing. The fact of the matter is that its only on these short sub 2-3 minute fights though.You have to remember the beastlord class is the best burst dps class in the game when they have a full primal bar. They should do 2 or 3 times what any other class can do in a 30 seconds span when they burn their primals with their two cooldowns(its a minimum of around 5 million damage in a 30 second period probably closer to 10 or 15 with someone who knows what they are doing in just em gear). Thats why they parse so well on these short fights, they play to their strengths.I do think that they need to do a little tweaking, but on most fights its not as drastic as people make it sound its mostly on the shorter fights that beastlord abilities need tweaking or other classes need better burst abilities to match up with the beastlord on these shorter fights.The other thing is that people are somewhat exploiting the mechanic in a way it was never really meant to be used to keep savagry level 6. The drain seems like it was meant to encourage you to use your primals all at once for a short term buff or even build up over time to level 6 then it should drain all your savagry what happens though is with enough haste/skill reuse and proper skill management you can keep max feral rampage longer than it was intended.Honestly the easy fix would be to have reaching max feral rampage reset your savagry to 0 or have a much higher drain unless you use freeze so you get a max of 30 seconds of max level feral rampage before you have to build back up savagry.</blockquote>I went ahead and left the area you bolded to say you are wrong on that. A good beastlord knows to stretch it out. See Feral Rampage doesnt just drain your savagry, it gives you need little boost in stats while it's at it. Level 6 Feral is 60 CB, 40 MA, and 10% flurry. That is why Beastlords are winning longer fights too. Ways to fix two major classes that want to compete with beastlords. Wizard, make FB critical, assassin, boost the damage and make Assassinate a 3 minute base reuse timer.

Nrgy

03-13-2012, 11:29 AM

<cite>SeregWethrin wrote:</cite><blockquote>One that parse looks very suspicious when you blank out all the names and dont even show all the meaningful stats like hit rate. Also in the EM levels beastlords are always going to outparse anyone else because their fabled epic is the equivilent of having two hardmode weapons and with their myths they have a advantage over anyone else. If you look at a beastlords parse most of the damage they do is melee/proc dps.also again a parse under 2 minutes, I agree that beastlords are overpowered in any battle lasting under 2 minutes just because of the way their skills and cooldowns work and this could use a little balancing. The fact of the matter is that its only on these short sub 2-3 minute fights though.You have to remember the beastlord class is the best burst dps class in the game when they have a full primal bar. They should do 2 or 3 times what any other class can do in a 30 seconds span when they burn their primals with their two cooldowns(its a minimum of around 5 million damage in a 30 second period probably closer to 10 or 15 with someone who knows what they are doing in just em gear). Thats why they parse so well on these short fights, they play to their strengths.They should NOT nor should ANY class that is considered a T1 DPS class. T1 should all be relative to every other T1, where one might have advantage other others based on fight mechanics such as required jousting or ranged attacks. No T1 class should be head & shoulders over any other T1 in EVERY situation.I do think that they need to do a little tweaking, but on most fights its not as drastic as people make it sound its mostly on the shorter fights that beastlord abilities need tweaking or other classes need better burst abilities to match up with the beastlord on these shorter fights.The other thing is that people are somewhat exploiting the mechanic in a way it was never really meant to be used to keep savagry level 6. The drain seems like it was meant to encourage you to use your primals all at once for a short term buff or even build up over time to level 6 then it should drain all your savagry what happens though is with enough haste/skill reuse and proper skill management you can keep max feral rampage longer than it was intended.Honestly the easy fix would be to have reaching max feral rampage reset your savagry to 0 or have a much higher drain unless you use freeze so you get a max of 30 seconds of max level feral rampage before you have to build back up savagry.That sounds a lot like asking for a Nerf, not a fix to the BL's or the other 24 classes. My guess is SOE fully intended the BL's to exactly as they do and are a prelude to all things to come (for other classes).</blockquote>

Fendaria

03-13-2012, 01:22 PM

The devs really need to do something to address the Beastlord class. It is so discouraging right now to be another DPS class. I really hope something is done in the next content push to address this, its way to out of balance.Fendaria

Kizee

03-13-2012, 01:26 PM

nm

Chronus1

03-13-2012, 01:40 PM

Many people don't like having their parse shown so when posting like that most people do block it out.I'm trying to think of a fight besides 2nd in tallons that beastlords don't auto win. Maybe on a mob you die a lot on and pet resummoning takes a while I guess.

Davngr

03-13-2012, 05:59 PM

again.. i'm well aware of what beastlords can do and i concur that their abilities/ca's do too much damage given that they get double proc benefits and amazing utility but that's not the point of the thread. the point of this thread is to brain storm some cool new abilities/fixes that could be implemented to bring the other T1 class up to beastlord range. those parses mean nothing with out group make up and break down of damage for each class.

SeregWethrin

03-14-2012, 12:28 AM

Its not their abilities that do too much damage, if you look at the beastlords dps on an actual parse its mostly melee damage and procs. The fact is what is overpowered about them is being able to exploit the fact that once you get enough haste and reuse (about em gear if you know how to gear properly.) you can get 60cb 40ma and 10% flurry constantly.You can tell by the drain on the higher level feral rampage that it was never balanced so that you could keep it going at that level for more than about 30 seconds but you can with careful timing of your abilities. I mean if they intended to let you keep level 6 feral rampage indefinately they would not have put the savagry drain on it. All it would take is to double the savagry drain on max level feral rampage and boom they are pretty much balanced with other t1 dps classes.

Davngr

03-14-2012, 01:43 AM

i would concider that part of their abilities and nerfing them would bring them in line but the whole point of this thread is that: this is a new expansion and the classes last got new stuff a year ago, hopping these new levels will bring some cool stuff <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Landiin

03-14-2012, 02:56 AM

<cite>SeregWethrin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Its not their abilities that do too much damage, if you look at the beastlords dps on an actual parse its mostly melee damage and procs. The fact is what is overpowered about them is being able to exploit the fact that once you get enough haste and reuse (about em gear if you know how to gear properly.) you can get 60cb 40ma and 10% flurry constantly.You can tell by the drain on the higher level feral rampage that it was never balanced so that you could keep it going at that level for more than about 30 seconds but you can with careful timing of your abilities. I mean if they intended to let you keep level 6 feral rampage indefinately they would not have put the savagry drain on it. All it would take is to double the savagry drain on max level feral rampage and boom they are pretty much balanced with other t1 dps classes.</blockquote>I wouldn't put a faster drain on it as it would hurt lesser geared players (most of the people, SOE wouldn't want to do that and make most of them upset). I would make each level have a hard timer on it. If you didn't bump it up a level it would end. Once you lost rampage you couldn't start another chain again untill a time limit was met. No reason to keep it broken it needs to be fixed.

Dorsan

03-23-2012, 11:57 AM

I think beastlord DPS should be reduced by some 20% for the maximum peak and leave the rest as it is.

Geothe

03-23-2012, 12:06 PM

Well, it looks like there will be significant DPS changes with Prestige abilities in GU63.Beastlords are not getting much of anything special, while most everyone else is getting what appears to be some solid DPS increases. So at this point it time, it would probably be best to see how things level out after GU63 is live.

Davngr1

03-23-2012, 12:47 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, it looks like there will be significant DPS changes with Prestige abilities in GU63.Beastlords are not getting much of anything special, while most everyone else is getting what appears to be some solid DPS increases. So at this point it time, it would probably be best to see how things level out after GU63 is live.</blockquote> yea the prestige are pretty nice for the dps classes but i still would like to see aoe's trigger multiple multipliers for FFU, a "readiness" pre-nerf clicky for my wiz and 2% reset on lifeburn for my necro is a joke considering what other classes are getting 5% to 10% would be acceptable. that being said beastlords will stay on top till all the other classes get mythical weapons. also beatlord utility should take a small nerf while in feral and they should also get a top notch pet aoe avoid while in spiritual stance as well.

Hammieee

03-30-2012, 12:34 AM

<cite>Proud_Silence wrote:</cite><blockquote>Pain to get a parse ready for posting so only got one for now, but they all look pretty much alike.All players on this parse have EM gear, the odd HM gloves and forearms here and there. None of the BST have mythsBST do not just blow everyone else out of the water in full HM gear + Myths, they do it across the boards in all tiers and gear levels.Maybe they aren't doing 100k more dmg then the second, but in relation to the other dps'ers they're unreachable ahead,. I might post the Eireen parse later, BST doing over 40% more dmg then second on parse, and Eireen is not a pure burn fight.<a href="http://postimage.org/image/4v1i44bdp/full/" target="_blank"><img src="http://s14.postimage.org/vsvf5uw0x/Kreegar.jpg" border="0" /></a><a href="http://postimage.org/" target="_blank">upload images</a></blockquote>Why is your warlock so terrible?

Wigg

03-31-2012, 03:54 PM

<cite>Hammasaurusrex@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Proud_Silence wrote:</cite><blockquote>Pain to get a parse ready for posting so only got one for now, but they all look pretty much alike.All players on this parse have EM gear, the odd HM gloves and forearms here and there. None of the BST have mythsBST do not just blow everyone else out of the water in full HM gear + Myths, they do it across the boards in all tiers and gear levels.Maybe they aren't doing 100k more dmg then the second, but in relation to the other dps'ers they're unreachable ahead,. I might post the Eireen parse later, BST doing over 40% more dmg then second on parse, and Eireen is not a pure burn fight.<a href="http://postimage.org/image/4v1i44bdp/full/" target="_blank"><img src="http://s14.postimage.org/vsvf5uw0x/Kreegar.jpg" border="0" /></a><a href="http://postimage.org/" target="_blank">upload images</a></blockquote>Why is your warlock so terrible?</blockquote>Well, we dont know the group setups.. conjy and warlock could not have an illy or a troub. Assassin could be in back of the bus group with the BSTL both having BC. What were the setups?

Davngr1

03-31-2012, 05:30 PM

showing a parse to prove a class is isn't out of line is ineffective to say the least. class ca's/aa's and damage potential/utility need to be balanced at a core level not letting player ability/gear/buffs dictate what a class needs (with in reason, buffs should be taken into account for pet classes of course) bl's don't need a damage nerf they need a small utility nerf while on feral and a shaman like pet aoe avoid while in spiritual stance. the rest of the dps classes need two mythicals. mages = main weap + off hand scouts = two myth weaps

Shotneedle

03-31-2012, 08:14 PM

Post GU63-T1 - Beastlord/Necro (/Warlock on ae fights)T2 - Wizard/Conj/Warlock/Swash/Assassin/RangerT3 - Brigand/Troub/DirgeT4 - Illy/Coercer/Inq/Fury/Warden/Mystic/All TanksTbad - Templar/DefilerDiscuss.

Hammieee

03-31-2012, 08:23 PM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Hammasaurusrex@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Proud_Silence wrote:</cite><blockquote>Pain to get a parse ready for posting so only got one for now, but they all look pretty much alike.All players on this parse have EM gear, the odd HM gloves and forearms here and there. None of the BST have mythsBST do not just blow everyone else out of the water in full HM gear + Myths, they do it across the boards in all tiers and gear levels.Maybe they aren't doing 100k more dmg then the second, but in relation to the other dps'ers they're unreachable ahead,. I might post the Eireen parse later, BST doing over 40% more dmg then second on parse, and Eireen is not a pure burn fight.<a href="http://postimage.org/image/4v1i44bdp/full/" target="_blank"><img src="http://s14.postimage.org/vsvf5uw0x/Kreegar.jpg" border="0" /></a><a href="http://postimage.org/" target="_blank">upload images</a></blockquote>Why is your warlock so terrible?</blockquote>Well, we dont know the group setups.. conjy and warlock could not have an illy or a troub. Assassin could be in back of the bus group with the BSTL both having BC. What were the setups?</blockquote>I think i could do more solo buffed

Davngr1

03-31-2012, 11:48 PM

Wigg

04-03-2012, 01:31 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Buffrat@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Post GU63-T1 - Beastlord/Necro (/Warlock on ae fights)T2 - Wizard/Conj/Warlock/Swash/Assassin/RangerT3 - Brigand/Troub/DirgeT4 - Illy/Coercer/Inq/Fury/Warden/Mystic/All TanksTbad - Templar/DefilerDiscuss.</blockquote>dam.. i'd love to see a necro outparse my assassin. if so i need to start getting dav some gear :p</blockquote> I don't know.. Wizards and Conjy's get a pretty big boost. Wizards before 91 will be putting 3 points in fiery blast boosting a ~1 million damage nuke to ~1.3 million right off the bat. And with Firestorm + the group abilities getting a 30% to absolutely base amount, their first two lines seem to be some of the most powerful dps boost of all the classes.Granted, solar flare getting a boost when the mobs below X amount is the worst idea ever by the devs... but hey, I guess they wanted to revive a dead spell.

Dayeyes

04-13-2012, 10:19 PM

Talathion

04-14-2012, 06:03 PM

Lifeburn

Slittherss

07-20-2012, 02:22 PM

I'm just wanting to see Brigs and Swashys be useful again. I feel i'll leave this game for a f2p game that has better balancing than this at this rate. When i see Beastlord # a bagillion come up with his/her garbage gear and blow my almost fully skyshrine raid geared brig out of the water by 200k i feel kind of insignificant in retrospect so where is the rogue loving? don't forget about us SoE we need some deeps.

Koleg

07-20-2012, 03:18 PM

<cite>Slittherss wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm just wanting to see Brigs and Swashys be useful again. I feel i'll leave this game for a f2p game that has better balancing than this at this rate. When i see Beastlord # a bagillion come up with his/her garbage gear and blow my almost fully skyshrine raid geared brig out of the water by 200k i feel kind of insignificant in retrospect so where is the rogue loving? don't forget about us SoE we need some deeps.</blockquote>Brig & Swashys are where they need to be. they have always been designed and performed as T2 DPS / Utility. They have some of the best Debuffs and Aggro control tools when used by skilled players to be sure. ONLY those two classes can do the thing which they can, no other class can come close.The issue is with Skyshrine, that utility which the Brig and Swashy bring is -not- needed, -not- desired and -not- waranted. So that is the issue and they are left with T2 DPS without any utility, just like chanter, dare I say, Crowd Control <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" /> The current game model respects one thing and one thing only, which is DPS, and that goes for Healers and tanks equally. It is no longer enough to heal a raid unless it has DPS associated with it. Tanking is impossible without DPS due to broken missunderstood (by the programmers) threat methodologies.The Beastlord has made raid leaders look at -ANYTHING- T2 like they have a 3rd eye and now with the up coming Reckless stance on fighters ... you might just as well reroll anything T2. I wouldn't delete them at this point as these things are allways cyclical.Oh and p.s. /whispers This is an old thread

Solarax

07-26-2012, 01:45 PM

<cite>Buffrat@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Post GU63-T1 - Beastlord/Necro (/Warlock on ae fights)T2 - Wizard/Conj/Warlock/Swash/Assassin/RangerT3 - Brigand/Troub/DirgeT4 - Illy/Coercer/Inq/Fury/Warden/Mystic/All TanksTbad - Templar/DefilerDiscuss.</blockquote>i would change this to readT0 BeastlordsT1 Rangers, Necros, LocksT2 everything else .its hard to say for certain as raid setups and skill play such a large part in how dps breaks down.My guild has one of the best rangers world wide so i naturally put him high on the list but maybe that isnt true of the " average" ranger.just like people have a hard time believing in necros doing high end damage because so few of them achieve it.I know one wizzy in our guild works very hard and does better damage than the locks on ae fights but part of how i see all this mess is that its partly about how the class is designed and how hard the "Average" person has to work to get the numbers. She has to work hard to do it while i know quite a few beastlords that have jumped right in being the first DPS character (im refferancing a friend who has only played healers until now) and she doesnt top parses but she comes close with little effort.so thats how i see things. I know a lot of necros but very few that work hard for the numbers in my opinion. and that does not mean using everything you have just to get one or 2 parses up. im talking about trying new rotations or understanding how your spells can best be used in what situations and when changes come , testing out those changes and adjusting to them.anyone can do the, and im quoting another necro that said this "i only use 5 spells" pattern and be merely acceptable.im sure other classes are the same and have all the same problems but on the whole as i have never called for a nerf of a class before I think if any class needs it it would be beastlords.jmo

Koleg

07-26-2012, 02:20 PM

<cite>Soulskar@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Buffrat@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Post GU63-T1 - Beastlord/Necro (/Warlock on ae fights)T2 - Wizard/Conj/Warlock/Swash/Assassin/RangerT3 - Brigand/Troub/DirgeT4 - Illy/Coercer/Inq/Fury/Warden/Mystic/All TanksTbad - Templar/DefilerDiscuss.</blockquote>i would change this to readT0 BeastlordsT0.5 Pally, SK, Zerker.... <- you forgot these.T1 Rangers, Necros, Locks <-- Rangers should just /delete at this pointT2 everything else . <-- Brig, Swashy should just betray to crafters as well.its hard to say for certain as raid setups and skill play such a large part in how dps breaks down.My guild has one of the best rangers world wide so i naturally put him high on the list but maybe that isnt true of the " average" ranger.just like people have a hard time believing in necros doing high end damage because so few of them achieve it.I know one wizzy in our guild works very hard and does better damage than the locks on ae fights but part of how i see all this mess is that its partly about how the class is designed and how hard the "Average" person has to work to get the numbers. She has to work hard to do it while i know quite a few beastlords that have jumped right in being the first DPS character (im refferancing a friend who has only played healers until now) and she doesnt top parses but she comes close with little effort.so thats how i see things. I know a lot of necros but very few that work hard for the numbers in my opinion. and that does not mean using everything you have just to get one or 2 parses up. im talking about trying new rotations or understanding how your spells can best be used in what situations and when changes come , testing out those changes and adjusting to them.anyone can do the, and im quoting another necro that said this "i only use 5 spells" pattern and be merely acceptable.im sure other classes are the same and have all the same problems but on the whole as i have never called for a nerf of a class before I think if any class needs it it would be beastlords.jmo</blockquote>

Mermut

07-26-2012, 02:26 PM

Davngr1

07-26-2012, 11:24 PM

way to go devs.. people ask for T1 dps equality and you make tanks T1.

theriatis

07-27-2012, 06:19 AM

Hi,agreed.I'm a Wizard since Beta and since DoV i don't feel like T1 DPS anymore.Especially on long, single Target Fights i just cannot compete with anyone anymore (which i could before DoV, if i didn't slack around).So whats the Point in having classes which have no Pets which can do the dirty work,which have no Mit, which have nearly to no Utility (since i was comparing Icy Gift to theElemental Toxication (sp?) of our Conj, i cry myself to sleep) and which need a lot ofSupport to do DPS ?Give me a Troub in my Group, an Illu with TC on me and a Conj with the Elemental (whateverit is called, i don't know the english Translation) and i may have a chance to do DPS andget to the same Place i got before DoV.If i use every one-shot Spell (Fusion/Fiery whatever/Manaburn, which take forever to recast) and a Timewarp comes up and Sanguine Sacrifice runs and i'm lucky to not get one-shotted myself through Melee AEs i may get first/second place on a 3-5 Encounter Trash in Sevalak.If nothing is up, the Illu just sleeps and times his TW not right or the last Mob in the Encounterstands a little bit too long, i have no chance of beating myself to a place more than 5.So, whats the Point ?Regards, theriatis.

ratbast

07-27-2012, 03:53 PM

dont worry theriatis, crusaders are here to pick up your slack. eat their dust.

Jeepned2

08-01-2012, 07:08 PM

<cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi,agreed.I'm a Wizard since Beta and since DoV i don't feel like T1 DPS anymore.Especially on long, single Target Fights i just cannot compete with anyone anymore (which i could before DoV, if i didn't slack around).So whats the Point in having classes which have no Pets which can do the dirty work,which have no Mit, which have nearly to no Utility (since i was comparing Icy Gift to theElemental Toxication (sp?) of our Conj, i cry myself to sleep) and which need a lot ofSupport to do DPS ?Give me a Troub in my Group, an Illu with TC on me and a Conj with the Elemental (whateverit is called, i don't know the english Translation) and i may have a chance to do DPS andget to the same Place i got before DoV.If i use every one-shot Spell (Fusion/Fiery whatever/Manaburn, which take forever to recast) and a Timewarp comes up and Sanguine Sacrifice runs and i'm lucky to not get one-shotted myself through Melee AEs i may get first/second place on a 3-5 Encounter Trash in Sevalak.If nothing is up, the Illu just sleeps and times his TW not right or the last Mob in the Encounterstands a little bit too long, i have no chance of beating myself to a place more than 5.So, whats the Point ?Regards, theriatis.</blockquote>Don't forget how Troubs have abandoned you also. Sorry but Jester's Cap rotation list now doesn't always include the Wizard. If you want to get sick about Jesters, just go to the Troub forums and read. You are now something like 5 or 6 on the list if on it at all. Sorry! Even I'm higher on the Jester's Cap list then you are.

Goozman

08-01-2012, 07:40 PM

I don't really believe balancing the other dps classes around beastlords would take all that much effort. As far as the 4 other scouts (or why not go ahead and add bards in there), they have enough combat arts already, but it's pathetic that most of their abilities account for 0-2% of their dps... simply increase the base damage of most/all of their combat arts. Problem solved. Or have poisons crit again, that would be one very simple change that would boost rogues and predators to Beastlord levels.For wizards, a couple spells should do drastically more damage: solar flare, the velium spike thing, incinerate, ice spears, immolation. Also giving furnace of ro and protoflame the wizard's stats would probably solve their problem.As for the other mages, following the same concept as above would probably have the same results. All 6 of the mages' quick shot abilities should do more damage. Their quick casting dot's should do more damage, etc...These changes would take little effort on the part of the devs. If they were so concerned about 4-6 people in a general raid doing 20%ish more damage, they can simply increase the HP of a few raid bosses; simple as that.

le Rêveur

09-06-2012, 06:07 AM

Sorry for digging this post out, but i'd like to react about wizard dps. My main used to be a wizard since release. So i guess i'm somewhat experienced at wizarding. That being said, we can still shine in current game / raids. I have crap gear, basically i'm slighly more than half ss geared, my zonewide parses in sev and ud range from 300 to 380k depending on raid setup. I usually have troub + illy in my group, along with a conj. Occasionally i hit 600/800k on trash groups of 3 or 4 mobs, 500 to 550k on some nameds with waves of adds where i can make some nice fiery blasts <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Can break the million on those UD drake trashes also... that if the lock crap himself <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> So i'm still having fun, but at same time i really feel i cant do anything VS the sin in the guild. He is consistently over me on zonewide parses. I can win some fights, even on some nameds, but zonewide parses he ends up in the 400/450k when he's not slacking arround. Of course mage group if not the perfect group where everyone casts the buffs at the right time etc. But i really feel that melee are favoured in SS, quite frustrating to feel that whatever you do, you get beaten anyway...

Kapath

09-06-2012, 02:28 PM

LE reveur,I couldn't agree more. ALL the SS content favors melee/ranger dps strongly. My zerker not even in reckless is usually at our mages parses. Throw in the drakes+reckless it's not even fair. I am hoping that, given the new 'stance' to tanks, they'll soon follow suit for the rest of us in the next xpac. Like 'spell double cast' mode but increases power consumption by like 200% or something

Davngr

09-06-2012, 05:11 PM

<cite>le Rêveur wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sorry for digging this post out, but i'd like to react about wizard dps. My main used to be a wizard since release. So i guess i'm somewhat experienced at wizarding. That being said, we can still shine in current game / raids. I have crap gear, basically i'm slighly more than half ss geared, my zonewide parses in sev and ud range from 300 to 380k depending on raid setup. I usually have troub + illy in my group, along with a conj. Occasionally i hit 600/800k on trash groups of 3 or 4 mobs, 500 to 550k on some nameds with waves of adds where i can make some nice fiery blasts <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />. Can break the million on those UD drake trashes also... that if the lock crap himself <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> So i'm still having fun, but at same time i really feel i cant do anything VS the sin in the guild. He is consistently over me on zonewide parses. I can win some fights, even on some nameds, but zonewide parses he ends up in the 400/450k when he's not slacking arround. Of course mage group if not the perfect group where everyone casts the buffs at the right time etc. But i really feel that melee are favoured in SS, quite frustrating to feel that whatever you do, you get beaten anyway...</blockquote> the assassin is a T1 dps class just like you and there's nothing wrong with him doing comperable damage as you. my advice is "do work" and parse harder on every mob, not just names. also yes melee/close range damage does need to be slightly higher than range damage because when the melee joust their damage drops to "zero". that has to be compensated some how.edit. also when he gets beat it don't matter the excuses he makes, he got beat.

KenCoop

09-06-2012, 09:03 PM

Are we really talking about Skyshrine fights? They are almost all straight burns at this point, so obviously a scout should be parsing higher because there are so few you have to joust on. When you fight the boar in PoW good luck as a scout keeping up with any of the the wizzys/locks/necros etc. The classes are just setup differently for different fights, and yeah I can do 700k in UD on a named that's a straight burn but good luck trying to get anywhere close to that on some of the harder fights in drunder or PoW.The devs need to balance damage equality for relevant content, and Skyshrine wasn't relevant a month after release except for that it provided a way to get easy loot that was almost as good (or better in some cases) versus loot that was much more difficult to obtain.If scouts and mages parsed the same on a straight burn, mages would be 300k ahead of scouts on a fight you had to joust. As it is now you go back and forth depending on the fight, which is at least more balanced than just making all the casters OP.

Griffinhart

10-01-2012, 03:59 PM

<cite>KenCoop wrote:</cite><blockquote>If scouts and mages parsed the same on a straight burn, mages would be 300k ahead of scouts on a fight you had to joust. As it is now you go back and forth depending on the fight, which is at least more balanced than just making all the casters OP.</blockquote>You do realize that Sorcerer's have to joust as well to do max DPS, right? You do realize that many other mage classes joust to do DPS with close range spells and melee attacks? The idea that mages don't joust was true a long time ago, but mages have been needing to joust for years now. Our DPS just doesn't fall as much at range as most scouts.

Mermut

10-01-2012, 04:59 PM

<cite>Griffinhart wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>KenCoop wrote:</cite><blockquote>If scouts and mages parsed the same on a straight burn, mages would be 300k ahead of scouts on a fight you had to joust. As it is now you go back and forth depending on the fight, which is at least more balanced than just making all the casters OP.</blockquote>You do realize that Sorcerer's have to joust as well to do max DPS, right? You do realize that many other mage classes joust to do DPS with close range spells and melee attacks? The idea that mages don't joust was true a long time ago, but mages have been needing to joust for years now. Our DPS just doesn't fall as much at range as most scouts.</blockquote>Also, mage can't stay outside of joust range without staying outside of heal and cure range as well. Most priests need to be close in to give full protection to their tanks and scouts as well as to do dps themselves.

daray

10-05-2012, 04:27 PM

I guess I'll throw my 2c into this discussion.Wizards need to be within 10m to maximize their potential dps. If you are being lazy and standing at range, or forced to range by the script (or strat your guild uses), then you are sacrificing dps. It won't be as much as some scouts sacrifice under the same circumstances, but it is still significant enough. Sometimes there is nothing you can do about this, but for a lot of the (especially easier) content, rethinking your approach with this in mind might help (all the while trying to minimize actual movement). Be aware of how AEs tier in damage and distance requirements of each damage tier, distances on red emote jousts, make use of AE timers and red joust timers, figure out what is and isn't avoidable - oh and try to get your guild to use more favorable positioning / strats.

KenCoop

10-05-2012, 05:24 PM

I think Daray said it best, and I will of course yield to what he has to say. For the people that responded before he did, I think you may have failed to read the first to parts of my post. I was LOLing at people using Skyshrine as a basis of comparison for T1 damage equity. As I stated, almost all fights in there are straight burns. For melee classes in PoW and Drunder HM you are dealing with multiple AoEs that inflict damage based upon range that will usually have to be jousted (if you can't heal thru them or AoE avoid). For example, if you had a mage and a scout both doing 6-700k on a straight burn, then you throw in having to joust 2x to 30m every 25 sec (2 seperate AoEs), there is just the potential for a scout to lose much more dps on that type of fight (again, if you can't just beast mode and heal thru them or AoE avoid). It may not be as much of a difference as I stated (was trying to use sarcasm...obviously didn't pull off my sarcastaball impersonation very well <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />), but there would certainly be a disparity there.For people doing SS and ST, there just really is no way that those zones can be relevant to the T1 damage equity discussion, as they are (nearly) all simply tank-and-spank.All I am trying to say, is that T1 damage equity needs to be balanced around the real end-game, not what pickup raids are able to clear. *edited because I didn't proof it and I hate using the incorrrect tense.