Dueling with CM removal

[Kryvak]

<h4>Ager Sanguinis' Guild Hall - [2] 6:00:19 PM | Uorokku - [00:03] 6:01:22 PM</h4><p>This really speaks for itself, 22k in a duel?<table cellspacing="2" cellpadding="2" width="100%"><tbody><tr><th>Name</th><th>StartTime</th><th>Duration</th><th>Damage</th><th>Damage%</th><th>PowerDrain</th><th>EncDPS</th><th>EncHPS</th><th>DamageTaken</th><th>Deaths</th></tr><tr><td>Uorokku</td><td>6:01:22 PM</td><td>00:04</td><td>69,831</td><td>--</td><td>0</td><td>23,277.00</td><td>82.00</td><td>42,697</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td>Kryvakk</td><td>6:01:22 PM</td><td>00:04</td><td>42,697</td><td>100%</td><td>0</td><td>14,232.33</td><td>4,011.33</td><td>69,831</td><td>1</td></tr></tbody></table></p>

[Talathion]

<p>No More Critical Mitigation.</p>

[Kryvak]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No More Critical Mitigation.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, that was in the title. I know why it's happening.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>Any fixes<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Delethen]

<p>Whats up Talathion, I thought this is what you always wanted.</p>

[Raknid]

<p>This mya be a stupid question, but why is it that dueling doesn't use the PvP ruleset?</p>

[Nrgy]

<p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This mya be a stupid question, but why is it that dueling doesn't use the PvP ruleset?</p></blockquote><p>I'd guess becasue of the Server rule set.</p>

[Vlahkmaak]

<p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Raknid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This mya be a stupid question, but why is it that dueling doesn't use the PvP ruleset?</p></blockquote><p>I'd guess becasue of the Server rule set.</p></blockquote><p>Dueling on a pvp server uses the pve ruleset too.  All any melee class has to do temp up during count down and press auto attk and the second the duel begins you pretty much get an automatic flurry that crits for massive damge.  spells and CA hit ALOT ahrder during a duel than they do in pvp becuase PVE spells/CA are designed to hit mobs with millions of HP whereas players typically run 45-60k self buffed.  Thats 1 auto attk round using pve rules.</p>

[Felshades]

<p>I always thought they used the PVP ruleset since you're targetting other players.</p><p>Havent dueled with any seriousness since like, KoS, so idk if they changed it.</p>

[yohann koldheart]

<p><cite>Meridia@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I always thought they used the PVP ruleset since you're targetting other players.</p></blockquote><p>nope, dueling always used the pve ruleset .</p>

[Kryvak]

<p>Bump, this still isn't fixed.</p>

[Maergoth]

<p>So what exactly is wrong with this?</p><p>The only class this affects is mages, who can just spam their AOE stuff as well. Or hey, if you really care about dueling, spec for something defensive to open with.</p><p>The fact of the matter is, fighters and priests can duel without a stalemate again. Additionally, they can't even properly balance regular PVP, let alone fluff nonsense PVP.</p><p>Dueling without crit mit is fine as-is. Even if they only last 10-15 seconds, it's a duel. Not a Marathon.</p>

[Kryvak]

<p><cite>Maergoth@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So what exactly is wrong with this?</p><p>The only class this affects is mages, who can just spam their AOE stuff as well. Or hey, if you really care about dueling, spec for something defensive to open with.</p><p>The fact of the matter is, fighters and priests can duel without a stalemate again. Additionally, they can't even properly balance regular PVP, let alone fluff nonsense PVP.</p><p>Dueling without crit mit is fine as-is. Even if they only last 10-15 seconds, it's a duel. Not a Marathon.</p></blockquote><p>The problem is that EVERYTHING crits. There's no defense, it's whoever gets their spells off the fastest wins in 10 seconds.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>This just makes monks the single best duelers in the game because of avoidance/strikethrough immunity.</p><p>Lol.</p>

[Maergoth]

<p>wat.</p><p>If you're getting one-rounded, you're doing it wrong. Peeeeeriod.</p>

[Kryvak]

<p><cite>Maergoth@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>wat.</p><p>If you're getting one-rounded, you're doing it wrong. Peeeeeriod.</p></blockquote><p>So, as an SK going up against a warlock, what should I be doing differently short of respeccing for LC (which wouldn't really work anyways) to stop me from going down in 2 hits when a third of my health is gone every second?</p>

[Vlahkmaak]

<p><cite>Kryvak@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Maergoth@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>wat.</p><p>If you're getting one-rounded, you're doing it wrong. Peeeeeriod.</p></blockquote><p>So, as an SK going up against a warlock, what should I be doing differently short of respeccing for LC (which wouldn't really work anyways) to stop me from going down in 2 hits when a third of my health is gone every second?</p></blockquote><p>Assumer from the start they are going to open up with this - stone skin at 1 second left to duel, pot cure the PB, Knock back, spread out your slams/ stuns/interupts every other auto attk/CA round. </p>

[Kryvak]

<p><cite>Vlahkmaak@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kryvak@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Maergoth@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>wat.</p><p>If you're getting one-rounded, you're doing it wrong. Peeeeeriod.</p></blockquote><p>So, as an SK going up against a warlock, what should I be doing differently short of respeccing for LC (which wouldn't really work anyways) to stop me from going down in 2 hits when a third of my health is gone every second?</p></blockquote><p>Assumer from the start they are going to open up with this - stone skin at 1 second left to duel, pot cure the PB, Knock back, spread out your slams/ stuns/interupts every other auto attk/CA round. </p></blockquote><p>It's possible that way, but that's not the point, I shouldn't have to rely on perfect timing when he can just spam buttons, and anyways that's not the point of this thread, this is a bug that needs fixing.</p>

[Maergoth]

<p>It's not a bug that needs fixing because it's extra development into recreating an unintended side-effect of PVE mechanics changes.</p><p>Dueling on PVE servers has always used PVE rules and should always use PVE rules.</p><p>The only way to reproduce the effect of reduced damage would be to make characters unable to crit in PVP, period. Even on PVP this is not the case.</p><p>ITT: Fighters upset that they don't auto-win duels anymore.</p><p>Thanks for the rebalancing. Mages and scouts actually stand a chance now, and the stalemate issue has been resolved.</p>

[Kryvak]

<p><cite>Maergoth@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's not a bug that needs fixing because it's extra development into recreating an unintended side-effect of PVE mechanics changes.</p><p>Dueling on PVE servers has always used PVE rules and should always use PVE rules.</p><p>The only way to reproduce the effect of reduced damage would be to make characters unable to crit in PVP, period. Even on PVP this is not the case.</p><p>ITT: Fighters upset that they don't auto-win duels anymore.</p><p>Thanks for the rebalancing. Mages and scouts actually stand a chance now, and the stalemate issue has been resolved.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not "upest I can't auto-win duels anymore," I was reporting a bug. The warlock I was dueling with is also waiting for this to be fixed, this isn't about me crying because I can't win duels anymore. And why would the only way to reproduce reduced damage be to make people unable to crit in PvP? PvP has completely separate crit mit, an easy fix would be to keep PvE crit mit as a hidden stat set to 1000 or something, which would also fix problems with mobs that have innate crit bonus randomly critting.</p>

[Vlahkmaak]

<p><cite>Kryvak@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><blockquote><p>Assume from the start they are going to open up with this - stone skin at 1 second left to duel, pot cure the PB, Knock back, spread out your slams/ stuns/interupts every other auto attk/CA round. </p></blockquote><p>It's possible that way, but that's not the point, I shouldn't have to rely on perfect timing when he can just spam buttons, and anyways that's not the point of this thread, this is a bug that needs fixing.</p></blockquote><p>I am just responding to your question of what you are supposed to do.  Thats what we do on pvp servers and against good wizards/warlocks<em> tanks do not last long w/o perfect timing</em> (or a healer) just like on raid mobs timing is essential for tanks. Try to interupt a big hitter.  If you want to see something truelly spectacular duel a wiz and miss interupting/kb on a manaburn.</p><p>I do not believe they are going to address this issue until after they implement the removal of critical mitigation update.  Until then you are going to have to live like Nagafen does for months to years at a time with a really important issue unresolved.  Sorry about that bud but this is how they do things.</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>it's not a bug at all. it's current gear + no critmit.</p><p>yes, that mage can 'spam' buttons now becasue he's got 300 crit, 70%+ potency 50%+ crit bonus. and you got nothing anymore to stop him from critting you except knockbacks/interrupts or specialized aas.</p><p>and the same thing applies to him. he can't stop you from critting, and I'm sure every hit you dish out crits too. which means if he can't stop you from kb/interrupting him, or can't get his control effects (mez/root/stun) to land, then he's up the creek against you too if you survive his 'big hits'</p><p>yes, that means that your tank can't just wade into the duel anymore shrugging off icecomets and firestorms, and rifts, and tripleshots and what not to smash the squishy mages and scouts. your going to have to know what the calss your dueling can do, and how to neutralize it, or counter it other then just 'hit him till he falls down'</p>

[Kryvak]

<p><cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>it's not a bug at all. it's current gear + no critmit.</p><p>yes, that mage can 'spam' buttons now becasue he's got 300 crit, 70%+ potency 50%+ crit bonus. and you got nothing anymore to stop him from critting you except knockbacks/interrupts or specialized aas.</p><p>and the same thing applies to him. he can't stop you from critting, and I'm sure every hit you dish out crits too. which means if he can't stop you from kb/interrupting him, or can't get his control effects (mez/root/stun) to land, then he's up the creek against you too if you survive his 'big hits'</p><p>yes, that means that your tank can't just wade into the duel anymore shrugging off icecomets and firestorms, and rifts, and tripleshots and what not to smash the squishy mages and scouts. your going to have to know what the calss your dueling can do, and how to neutralize it, or counter it other then just 'hit him till he falls down'</p></blockquote><p>To answer your first sentence, this definitely is a bug. Just because they didn't think about dueling when they made the change (and I can't really blame them for that), doesn't mean it was intended. This isn't just about me complaining that my tank can't take 500 hits, as I've stated multiple times already. I also have an assassin, and it isn't very fun to duel a healer, hit PFT before the duel starts, Shadow Step and Assassinate, and the duel's over in 2 seconds, and there's absolutely nothing they can do about it when I can hit them for 100k with one spell.</p>

[Maergoth]

<p>You do realize that crits were in the game long before crit MIT was in the game right? This is how dueling USED to be. I'd say they're finally finding a way to get duels back to working as intended, and it happens to be the removal of Crit mit.</p><p>Tell the priest you're dueling to use a stoneskin or immunity or death prevent or reactives or wards or a shield. The only super OP class is rangers, and even they can be countered by most classes.</p>