Feedback: Crit Mit removal

[Blacktop]

<p>I started testing the simple mobs in Ascent today and fount out the following;</p><p>the "hunting frost spiders" start crit miting me  </p><p>ACT from Live server:</p><p><img src="http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/2740/liveserver.png" width="728" height="365" /></p><p>ACT Test Sever:</p><p><img src="http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3948/testserverz.png" width="728" height="365" /></p><p>Looks like the Spiders start criting me for 22% and a 50+% inc of DPS</p><p>I did not do anyting to my adorms just a copy to test</p>

[Mogrim]

<p>Thats actually showing more than a 100% increase in incoming damage.</p>

[Gaarysal]

<p>They really need to remove the ability for mobs to crit entirely. As it is now all mobs have 30-50 crit bonus based on their class just like players do. This value has never displayed on buff packages except on certain mobs. Players often compensated for this with crit mit = buff package + 30/50 making the mob unable to do ANY extra damage with a crit. In most high end raid situations not enough crit mit aka the mob critted on you = 1 shot, this implementation virtually lets mobs hit 30-50% harder than before on every attack.</p>

[Cian4ik]

<p><strong>PredatorNoxious Enfeeblement now debuffs potency and melee damage instead of Crit Bonus.Enhance: Noxious Enfeeblement now improves the Crit Chance, Potency, and melee damage reductions of Noxious Enfeeblement.</strong>-----Noxious Enfeeblement not stack two Predators in one raid</p><p>This deprives them of one of its possible use</p>

[Geothe]

<p>So it looks like mobs crit bonus was removed... but their innate crit remains... and now players have had all ability to negate thoses innate crits removed.</p><p>oh fun!</p>

[TheGeneral]

<p>Well... this is test.  Hopefully that is an unintended oversight.  If raid mobs retain their innate crit and thats working as intended, we are going to see a lot more tanks getting hit with the random one shot death blow.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>The above example clearly demonstrates something is rotten with the first test release.</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The above example clearly demonstrates something is rotten with the first test release.</p></blockquote><p>Which means it will go live in this state. >.<</p>

[Soul_Dreamer]

<p>The Test parse is skewed in favour of showing we take more damage on test, the number of incomming hits was a lot higher and the avoidance a lot lower.</p><p>Live - 66 swings, 33 hits, so 50% Avoidance.Test - 84 Swings, 54 Hits, so 35% Avoidance.</p><p>Can you explain the difference in numbers, it almost looks like there were more mobs on the tank in the test parse than the live parse.</p><p>The average hit only increased by 18% (1890 -> 2245)</p><p>Yes there is an increase and mobs are critting so there is a problem with the update, but I think there are issues with these numbers.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>Larger sample set plz</p>

[Geothe]

<p>Why a larger test size?On live it shows 0% of the hits were crits.</p><p>On test it shows 38% of the hits were crits.</p><p>Cut and Dry right there.Players get crit and now have no way to negate that increased damage.</p>

[Soul_Dreamer]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Why a larger test size?On live it shows 0% of the hits were crits.</p><p>On test it shows 38% of the hits were crits.</p><p>Cut and Dry right there.Players get crit and now have no way to negate that increased damage.</p></blockquote><p>Because people are claiming a 100% increae in damage when the average hit has only increased by 18%, the rest is made up by the char getting hit more times and more often.</p><p>They're critting so yes it's broken, and I did state that, but it's not by as much as those parses show.</p><p>If that mob has a 38% Crit chance, and a 50% Crit bonus, thats a 19% increase in incomming damage (The average hit).</p><p>I'd guess the mobs have their innate crit bonus still and are getting a crit chance from somewhere. Porbably the crit chance the mobs have always had since our Crit Mit negated their Crit bonus, not their crit chance.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Soul_Dreamer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'd guess the mobs have their innate crit bonus still and are getting a crit chance from somewhere. Porbably the crit chance the mobs have always had since our Crit Mit negated their Crit bonus, not their crit chance.</p></blockquote><p>My guess as well, but I want to see more on this higher hit rate as well.  Could just be the small sample size, so a larger sample from live and test would be nice to see.</p>

[Chronus1]

<p>That they are criting at all needs to be adressed. If this goes live many raids will be impossible due to tanks eating random one shots due to getting crited and most if not all raid guilds would be pushed back at least a mob or 2 if not many more.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Chronus1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That they are criting at all needs to be adressed. If this goes live many raids will be impossible due to tanks eating random one shots due to getting crited and most if not all raid guilds would be pushed back at least a mob or 2 if not many more.</p></blockquote><p>No no no.</p><p>Mobs will still crit, but a crit (if all crit bonus including innate is actually removed as Sillius stated) then a crit means (Max Damage + 1).</p><p>With this change, you will get crit on now, however those crits wont be multiplied beyond the max natural hit +1 damage.</p>

[Soul_Dreamer]

<p>Thats how I'm seeing the change going in as well, although if they keep their innate bonus by mistake raiding is going to be proper f**ked for a while <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Geothe]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Chronus1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That they are criting at all needs to be adressed. If this goes live many raids will be impossible due to tanks eating random one shots due to getting crited and most if not all raid guilds would be pushed back at least a mob or 2 if not many more.</p></blockquote><p>No no no.</p><p>Mobs will still crit, but a crit (if all crit bonus including innate is actually removed as Sillius stated) then a crit means (Max Damage + 1).</p><p>With this change, you will get crit on now, however those crits wont be multiplied beyond the max natural hit +1 damage.</p></blockquote><p>The Max + 1 doesnt ever show as a true CRIT however, on a parse.  Hence currently when you have enough crit mit, ACT parses show all incoming damage as having a 0% cirt rate.Whenever ACT shows a crit rate above 0%, you are taking additional damage over the max+1.</p>

[slippery]

<p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; color: #d2c5a9; background-color: #2a2623;">Things are definitely still critting, and not only critting but doing so for additional damage.</p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; color: #d2c5a9; background-color: #2a2623;">I'm not really sure how this made it past QA, because it's a 30 second test that QA could perform with ease, and even gain far more information because they could just sit there with the GM buff and not die. Below you see me getting crit a bunch, with a few non crits for drastically less. This happened in a few different raid zones. The couple heroic zones I went in I did not get crit.</p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; color: #d2c5a9; background-color: #2a2623;"><img src="http://www.eq2equilibrium.com/img/crits.PNG" width="407" height="502" /></p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; color: #d2c5a9; background-color: #2a2623;">P.S. You alluded to mobs possibly critting in the future, that would be a massive mistake. Crits without a means to mitigate them create random. Just increase the mobs damage if you want it to do more damage, don't make it crit. </p></p>

[Soul_Dreamer]

<p><cite>slippery wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="background-color: #2a2623; color: #d2c5a9;">P.S. You alluded to mobs possibly critting in the future, that would be a massive mistake. Crits without a means to mitigate them create random. Just increase the mobs damage if you want it to do more damage, don't make it crit. </span></p></blockquote><p>Anyone remember Direvine Matron Critting pre crit mit? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Hennyo]

I am seeing a number of people in this thread that do NOT understand one of the most subtle aspects of crits and crit mitigation currently in the game. While it isn't documented much of anywhere, through large amounts of testing, I myself, and others who have done similar testing have learned that mobs do not get minimum crit of max damage +1, if you have critical mitigation covering up at least part of the innate bonus. So if a mob has innate + 1 percent buff package critical bonus, they get the base max damage + 1 calculation. If a mob has innate - 1 critical mitigation they lose their max damage + 1 calculation. Also something registers as a critical the instant it hits max damage +1 or more. This is all to say that, leaving mob criticals in the game without critical mitigation is an absolutely MASSIVE buff to mobs, and a huge nerf to players. I am completely for removing critical mitigation from the game, but at the same time, the devs needs to completely remove mob criticals from the game as well.

[Felshades]

<p>So I got a guildmate telling me that the pred debuff will still be useful because it reduces crit chance. -_-</p>

[Blacktop]

I'll try to test a few more zones and post some more ACT results as soon as i am able this weekend

[Uwopo]

<p>This just proves that the problem with crit mit wasn't the idea behind it, but the shoddy implementation of it.</p><p>I see no issue with a gateway mechanic that intended to enforce some type of content progression.  Personally, I just prefer flag systems, as long as there's a mechanic to limit the need to backflag.</p><p>The biggest problem with crit mit is that it was tied into the innate mob critical hit system in such a way that clearly even the developers can't easily understand it.</p><p>Originally a raid only mechanic, it had an immediate non-raid effect by mitigating the natural critical bonus of all mobs, preventing them from critting.  This gave a raider an immediate advantage in overland and group content, well beyond the advantage provided by better gear.</p><p>In raid environments, it was simply confusing, since a mob's damage output was enhanced by an invisible chance to crit, an invisible crit bonus and the displayed crit bonus on the buff package.  The result was players needed crit mit to exceed the displayed crit bonus by 30-50 points in order to completely negate a mobs ability to crit.</p><p>Since crit mit was introduced in non raid environments, the removal impacts the entire game, by enabling mob crits in overland, group and raid content, significantly increasing the damage output of all mobs vs. anyone who had even a small amount of crit mit.</p><p>The only way to fix this is to give all mobs a zero chance to crit, not just a zero crit bonus.  If you don't want to break the game with only minimal code changes, just give PCs an innate 1000 crit mit and remove the stat from armor.</p>

[Kunaak]

<p>I sure hope some dev is reading this...</p>

[Gungo]

<p>Its probably not the most exciting idea, but I personally think they should leave the crit bonus debuffs and buffs in game and reduce the class crit bonus innate to 30% across the board (with crit bonus now in game there really is no need to make innates different for every class). Make sure the old debuffs have more then enough to zero out the 30% bonus as well.</p>

[millie]

<p>I tried to do a "side by side" comparison of my live toon and one freshly copied on "Test Copy" but there seems to be some sort of block on keeping both sessions running.  It works for a minute or so and then the earlier session is killed.</p><p>If you are going to make this sort of change we need to be able to look at both live and test at the same time to compare the effect of changes.  From a "first glance" I seem to have lost 275.5% crit mit and gained 2,167 Hit Points.  Now not much is going to do less than 2,167 Hit Points on a critical hit at level 90.</p><p>If you are going to take crit mit off of items (not just adornments) then you need to reitemise the gear to ensure that the items reflect the progression it took to get them and not just erase the crit mit stat.</p>

[Mzia]

<p>Before crit mit was added, and even after it was added if you didn't raid, mobs didn't crit at all.  I don't see why anything should be critting now that it's being completely removed.</p><p>If you're going to remove the crit mit, you're going to have to remove the mob's chance to crit as well, so that it returns to the era before crit mit was added.</p><p>Anything else will just be a huge buff to mobs and result in less people being able to do the content, not more.  I'm assuming this all came up to get more people doing the content, not less..  Though I can't really say I understand 90% the decisions made these days :/</p>

[Banditman]

<p><cite>Hennyo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I am seeing a number of people in this thread that do NOT understand one of the most subtle aspects of crits and crit mitigation currently in the game. While it isn't documented much of anywhere, through large amounts of testing, I myself, and others who have done similar testing have learned that mobs do not get minimum crit of max damage +1, if you have critical mitigation covering up at least part of the innate bonus. So if a mob has innate + 1 percent buff package critical bonus, they get the base max damage + 1 calculation. If a mob has innate - 1 critical mitigation they lose their max damage + 1 calculation. Also something registers as a critical the instant it hits max damage +1 or more. This is all to say that, leaving mob criticals in the game without critical mitigation is an absolutely MASSIVE buff to mobs, and a huge nerf to players. I am completely for removing critical mitigation from the game, but at the same time, the devs needs to completely remove mob criticals from the game as well.</blockquote><p>QFE, QFT.</p><p>Basically, if you have more crit mit than the mob has TOTAL crit bonus (Inate + added), the crit calculation NEVER HAPPENS.</p><p>Removing Crit Bonus is *not* the answer, it never has been.  You must remove the ability of a mob to critical AT ALL.  Anything less coupled with the removal of crit mit is a BUFF to the mob.</p>

[Detor]

<p><cite>Kunaak wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I sure hope some dev is reading this...</p></blockquote><p>I guess we'll know tomorrow.  I'm guessing that's when it'll go live if a dev hasn't seen the feedback here that it actually makes mobs and zones harder to allow them to continue to crit (innate crit bonus) while players lose all their critical mitigation.</p>

[Hennyo]

Well, I went and did some limited testing tonight after the patch went in, and was not able to find any mobs that could critical hit me anymore solo. I would LIKE to at least do some testing of this properly, and would like to try to run a raid zone or two at some point. If you are geared and on testcopy atm, send a mail to lucchese on the unrest server if you would also like to run a raid, or if you have a raid but need to fill in a few spots, I am normally available anytime outside of my raid times.

[Rothrandir]

<p>Now that /testcopy is working for Permafrost again, I was able to try out a few things using my main from the Live servers.</p><p>I play a Warden with gear mostly from EM Kraytoc's, Hallof Legends and Foundations of Stone.  A few odds and ends are from the x2 zones.</p><p>I went to Ascent and soloed the spiders in the first part of the zone.  I was getting crit on about 60% of the time.  Same mobs on Permafrost right now never crit on me.  Comparing dps parses from Test Copy and Permafrost shows approximately a 32% increase on the dps from the spiders.</p><p>While the increased mob dps is an issue, the mobs I tried were still soloable.  However, if the same trend is true for x4 raid content, I forsee a lot of unpleasant raids in my guild's future... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/1069449046bcd664c21db15b1dfedaee.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Hopefully there will be more revisions to the code on Test before this goes live...</p>

[Ravensbelly]

<p>so am i missing something, or has ther been no Dev posts in regards to the crit mit changes since they were originally posted</p>

[Rothrandir]

<p>The only posts I've seen have been in response to comments about the change to the red adornments.  Specifically, to address the criticism that they aren't giving us enough hp compared to the value of a red adorn vs a white adorn (which has more hp and is easier to get).</p><p>Hopefully, that means they are busy addressing the issues that have been brought up so far... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p><p>It would be nice to get a comment from the devs as to whether the issue with the crit rate on Velious mobs is intended or not.</p>

[Rosss]

<p>Red vs yellow yeah?  They all have white on them.</p><p>I would really like to see reforging used in the CM adjustments of current gear.  Let the player base choose what they want to replace it with.  (I know this is not refering to adorns, just base CM on gear).</p>

[yohann koldheart]

<p><cite>Rosss@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would really like to see reforging used in the CM adjustments of current gear.  Let the player base choose what they want to replace it with.  (I know this is not refering to adorns, just base CM on gear).</p></blockquote><p><p>this really makes no sence ,you want them to let you improve your current gear just because they are removing a mechanic?</p><p>if they implement it right your gear isnt getting worse just with the removal of the crit mit mechanic.</p><p>they are suposed to be removing the mobs stat that crit mit regated ,so asking them to let you make your current gear better is a bit much. </p></p>

[Kenazeer]

<p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rosss@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would really like to see reforging used in the CM adjustments of current gear.  Let the player base choose what they want to replace it with.  (I know this is not refering to adorns, just base CM on gear).</p></blockquote><p><p>this really makes no sence ,you want them to let you improve your current gear just because they are removing a mechanic?</p><p>if they implement it right your gear isnt getting worse just with the removal of the crit mit mechanic.</p><p>they are suposed to be removing the mobs stat that crit mit regated ,so asking them to let you make your current gear better is a bit much. </p></p></blockquote><p>So you are saying that Crit Mit cost no points in the scoring of gear when created?</p>

[yohann koldheart]

<p><cite>Kenazeer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rosss@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would really like to see reforging used in the CM adjustments of current gear.  Let the player base choose what they want to replace it with.  (I know this is not refering to adorns, just base CM on gear).</p></blockquote><p>this really makes no sence ,you want them to let you improve your current gear just because they are removing a mechanic?</p><p>if they implement it right your gear isnt getting worse just with the removal of the crit mit mechanic.</p><p>they are suposed to be removing the mobs stat that crit mit regated ,so asking them to let you make your current gear better is a bit much. </p></blockquote><p>So you are saying that Crit Mit cost no points in the scoring of gear when created?</p></blockquote><p>with crit mit off the gear its not making it any worse though, so why would they let you make it better?</p>

[Rageincarnate]

<p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kenazeer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rosss@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would really like to see reforging used in the CM adjustments of current gear.  Let the player base choose what they want to replace it with.  (I know this is not refering to adorns, just base CM on gear).</p></blockquote><p>this really makes no sence ,you want them to let you improve your current gear just because they are removing a mechanic?</p><p>if they implement it right your gear isnt getting worse just with the removal of the crit mit mechanic.</p><p>they are suposed to be removing the mobs stat that crit mit regated ,so asking them to let you make your current gear better is a bit much. </p></blockquote><p>So you are saying that Crit Mit cost no points in the scoring of gear when created?</p></blockquote><p>with crit mit off the gear its not making it any worse though, so why would they let you make it better?</p></blockquote><p>you aren't getting it..  some raid pieces are only upgrades due to crit mit.  So, once they change crit mit to nothing.. we will  have pieces that are better then HM pieces from easier mobs..   Look at the easy mode pants vs HM pants.. without the crit mit difference.. It's doesn't look like an much of an upgrade...</p><p>Here's the guard pants difference between ez mode and hm</p><p>11sta,24,str,4 defense,1.2 extra parry chance, 2.6 cb, yellow slot.. with the yellow slot giving the highest yield..</p><p>thats.. barely an upgrade..</p>

[Banditman]

<p>Allowing us to reforge Crit Mit would blow itemization up worse than it already is.</p>

[Rageincarnate]

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Allowing us to reforge Crit Mit would blow itemization up worse than it already is.</p></blockquote><p>I dunno .. I'm honestly finding .. there isn't anything you can actually reforge on armor and still be viable..  Being able to reforge something .. would be handy.</p>

[yohann koldheart]

<p><cite>Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kenazeer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rosss@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would really like to see reforging used in the CM adjustments of current gear.  Let the player base choose what they want to replace it with.  (I know this is not refering to adorns, just base CM on gear).</p></blockquote><p>this really makes no sence ,you want them to let you improve your current gear just because they are removing a mechanic?</p><p>if they implement it right your gear isnt getting worse just with the removal of the crit mit mechanic.</p><p>they are suposed to be removing the mobs stat that crit mit regated ,so asking them to let you make your current gear better is a bit much. </p></blockquote><p>So you are saying that Crit Mit cost no points in the scoring of gear when created?</p></blockquote><p>with crit mit off the gear its not making it any worse though, so why would they let you make it better?</p></blockquote><p>you aren't getting it..  some raid pieces are only upgrades due to crit mit.  So, once they change crit mit to nothing.. we will  have pieces that are better then HM pieces from easier mobs..   Look at the easy mode pants vs HM pants.. without the crit mit difference.. It's doesn't look like an much of an upgrade...</p><p>Here's the guard pants difference between ez mode and hm</p><p>11sta,24,str,4 defense,1.2 extra parry chance, 2.6 cb, yellow slot.. with the yellow slot giving the highest yield..</p><p>thats.. barely an upgrade..</p></blockquote><p>thats a overall itimazation fail, and thats been a problem since dov launched. it continues to be a problem with the new quests they are adding. a example would be the freeport quest line, all solo  quests. the end reward is a cloak thats better then the em x4 cloaks.  </p>

[Felshades]

<p>Better than EMx4 cloaks? Not really.</p>

[Kunaak]

<p>from what I seen on test....</p><p>all that removing crit mit is gonna do is... break content, and kill gear progression.</p><p>HM drunder stuff is hitting about 3x harder then normal, and mobs randomly being able to crit only means reliable kills are a thing of the past.</p><p>see if guild A goes in, and kills something cause they didnt get back luck by being crit on, then guild B wipes over and over cause they get endless crits - and theres no way around this, it just makes raiding luck based, and no longer skill.</p><p>then with gear, if you compare the ToT BP, ToFS BP, the EM raid BP, and then the drunder X2 BP - the Drunder x2 BP is the best in 9 outta 10 cases. the EM raid one is almost identical to the ToT and ToFS BP, once you remove the crit mit that currently seperates them.</p><p>without basically redoing the entire expansions armor - theres no actual gear progression any more.</p><p>take any two current BPs from the same class - and put them side by side, block out the crit mit - and look at the stats alone - in most cases the difference is barely half a % on any stat - yet they are all drastically harder to get from the next.</p><p>if this goes live anytime soon, its gonna be a absolute disaster.</p>

[Rageincarnate]

<p>yeap.. the "power" of the armor definately factored in crit mit.  There really can't be any question about it looking at the gear.  Some of these pieces are nothing more then crit mit, crit bonus, and potency.</p>

[KenCoop]

<p><div><p>Well, since we can't get a dev response regarding the gear or adorns other than "basically" saying they are taking cm away and not otherwise changing the gear, but giving placeholders for adornments (I mean, I posted a week ago with hard numbers as to how this will effectively further close the gap between tiers of gear...but that is a different issue), can we at least have them look at the runes they have already created.</p><p>Granted, not many people use them, but stout (yellow) provides 1000hp, greater stout (red) 1200hp.</p><p>Now these are only primary/secondary/etc., but to give us adorns that give us 20% and 25% of the hp, respectively, of already created adornments eems a bit low.</p><p><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469);">When you consider that the Potency adornment for primary/etc. gives 3/4 for yellow/red, in comparison to 2/3 yellow/red on any armor, it seems more practical to keep a ratio closer to that (slightly better adorns for weapons, charms, etc.).</span></p><p>Using that formula, the 4 potency on the red adorn for primaries/etc. would be equal to 1200 hp, so the 3 potency (75% or 25% reduction--depending on how you state it) on armor should equal 900hp.  The 3 potency on yellow adorns  for primaries/etc. would be equal to the 1k hp on the yellow adorn, so the 2 potency adorn on gear should equal roughly 667hp.</p><p>They could certainly argue the value of the stats, but unless my math is way off it seems these replacement adorns are being severely undervalued.  If the intention is for us to replace them, fine, I would just appreciate a more honest response, because when you are hit with a 25-30k AE it is hard to see 300 hp making a huge difference <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p></div></p>

[Rosss]

<p>Are mobs still critical hitting on test?</p>

[Odys]

<p>Scary ! </p><p>Ok the average damage got increased, but average damage is rather non important.</p><p>But more importantly the max hit got multiplied by more than 3, from 2200 to 7000.</p><p>If this happen in raid tanks will be 1 shooted, AOe will one shot 30% of the raid etc...</p>

[Edel]

<p><cite>Rosss@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are mobs still critical hitting on test?</p></blockquote><p>I've tried on the first named in kael 1 the 2/13 and he critical hit me ,</p><p>same mob today don't critical hit me anymore.</p><p>After quick tests on tallonX4 hard always on testcopy the entry trash seem don't crit.</p>

[Rosss]

<p>This is actually good news.</p>

[Silzin]

i also have tested over the last week or so. SF raid zone, Labs trash at the door is not critting at all. DoV raid zone trash is at least 3 time is not critting at all. mobs in drunder heroic is also not critting. This is with a raid geared Inq and a Pally murc. I am not sure if the mobs are getting 100% Max +1 or just not critting at all.

[yohann koldheart]

<p>mobs in vuul x2 , and kraytoks em x4 are no longer criting at all.</p><p>havent been able to get enough to test to much more dov raid content.</p>

[Rosss]

<p>I am going to hop on tonight and check GrtD/Kael/Drunder/EoW heroics.</p><p>*crosses fingers*</p>

[Azigon]

<p>I'd think this change is ready for live.</p><p>I played around for a bit on my beastlord, NPCs difficulty hasn't change since NPCs are no longer critting. They're about the same on live, but I don't have hard numbers to test this on, but it's 'better' than it was in its previous state.</p>

[Landiin]

/sigh Guess I'll beg some of my guildies to patch test and do some real DOV raids to see if we get crit on. Does no one on test raid?

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Toranx@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote> Does no one on test raid?</blockquote><p>Pretty much no, particularly how you or I would define raid.</p><p>I did zone into several raids and test what encounters I could, and I did not see any crits last friday.</p>

[Kuulei]

<p><cite>Toranx@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>/sigh Guess I'll beg some of my guildies to patch test and do some real DOV raids to see if we get crit on. Does no one on test raid?</blockquote><p>As far as I know, the only "raid force" that was on test, left in 2007 and it was really nothing more than a mixed-guild raiding party. We barely had 20 people and the rest of the raid was bots. Come to think of it, might have been closer to 18 bodies and 6 bots. Never did have enough on test for a real raid force and when we were told 'Test Copy' was coming and they didnt need us, most left the test realm.</p><p>I believe there are a few that still do X2 on Test on weekends maybe? But those that got the 'bug' to try raid content have rerolled on live, like me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I think it rather backfired some, as the 'Test Copy' didn't populate with the live players like SOE was expecting. It didn't help that in the past, it was difficult to get patched to the Test Realm.</p><p>So, if you really want to 'Test' it out, patch the test realm! Foremost, use <span style="color: #ffff00;">/Test add</span> while on the character you'd like copied to the test realm (this can take from 30 mins to 24 hours). Run your regular launcher and in the upper left, change the version from your current, example mine is US English and clicking on the current version will bring up a drop-down menu, at the bottom of the list is 'Public Test'. Select that and patch!  If your account has 7 character slots on your current realm (US, EU, etc), you will have the same number of slots available on Test Realm.</p><p>Now you are ready to test for current and upcoming changes!  If your character you copied, gets better / different gear, just copy again, you can always delete the current version on Test_Copy or put up with the X's at the end of your name.</p>

[Skeez1e]

<p><cite>Kuulei wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As far as I know, the only "raid force" that was on test, left in 2007 and it was really nothing more than a mixed-guild raiding party. We barely had 20 people and the rest of the raid was bots. Come to think of it, might have been closer to 18 bodies and 6 bots. Never did have enough on test for a real raid force and when we were told 'Test Copy' was coming and they didnt need us, most left the test realm.</p></blockquote><p>I still have those The (not so) Great Test Move of 2007 scars!</p>