Crit Mit Adorns to Health Adorns

[Mermut]

<p>DoV AdornmentsYellow 5% crit mit has been changed to 150 healthRed 7% crit mit has been changed to 200 health</p><p>I realize the critical mitigation has been removed, but the 'conversion' adornments seem massively unequal in strength. Nobody would have ever considered 150 health even close to equivalent to 5% critical mitigation when critical mitigation was still in the game. I wonder at the decision to treat these adornments as 'equivalent' by replacing one with the other. I hope they will consider either a refund for the critical mitgation adornments or an exchange for something that is useful... something like potency or crit bonus that is useful to everybody.</p>

[Faeward]

<p>This is quite subjective really; it depends on how much health you have already. A 200 health adornment might not seem a big deal when you have 40k HP but when you consider there are what, like 7 slots you can put these in to, that's a lot of extra health!</p><p>I'd say the conversion is just right, and would suit the majority of players.</p>

[Mogrim]

<p>Original post is correct. this is far too little max health to be worth an adornment slot. They should be doubled, essentially.</p>

[Mermut]

<p>The crafted health adornments give more health then the yellow and red 'replacement' adornments. This is a pretty clear indication that they are not 'equivalent' to the old crit mit adornments which were not craftable at all, let alone are worse then any crafted adornment. All other yellow/red adornments that have crafted versions are better then even the best crafted versions.</p>

[Geothe]

<p>Yellow needs to give more than 295 HP (what white ones give now) and Red needs to give more than yellow.Something like yellow: 350HP, red: 450HP.</p>

[SgtPmpkn]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yellow needs to give more than 295 HP (what white ones give now) and Red needs to give more than yellow.Something like yellow: 350HP, red: 450HP.</p></blockquote><p>Seems very reasonable - hope its changed based on this feedback.</p>

[TheGeneral]

<p>Agreed, I was already of the mind that the fabled crafted health adorns were too short on the health stat.  This should be adjusted.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>Given white adorns give 295 hp, it stands to reason that the yellow and red ones should add 100hp for every point of CM they previously offered.</p>

[akin99]

<p>I would prefer a refund of shards to let me buy the adorns I want, but if that is not doable the amount of health needs to go way up. 500 and 750 at least.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>These things don't cost that many shards, honestly not very worried about it.  Do one raid night and I'll have enough shards to replace them.  Run 3 nights of instances and have the yellow shards.   Thats all noise really.</p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>Inglip@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is quite subjective really; it depends on how much health you have already. A 200 health adornment might not seem a big deal when you have 40k HP but when you consider there are what, like 7 slots you can put these in to, that's a lot of extra health!</p><p>I'd say the conversion is just right, and would suit the majority of players.</p></blockquote><p>So it is a good idea to remove crit mit from the game because people were having to put them on all slots to have enough crit mit to deal with zones, and that was a bad thing, but now they replace them with health adorns that to get what is not even a really useful amount you have to fill every slot up with health adorns?</p><p>You put about as much thought into this as they did, and it shows.</p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>These things don't cost that many shards, honestly not very worried about it.  Do one raid night and I'll have enough shards to replace them.  Run 3 nights of instances and have the yellow shards.   Thats all noise really.</p></blockquote><p>You are stretching it a bit here, they cost 10 shards and 5 shards for the yellows you are not going to get 70 shards for red adorns in one night of raiding, run 3 nights of instances I will agree you can come up with 35 shards.</p><p>This in no way changes the fact that it would not be difficult at all for them to replace the shards and plat and allow the players to choose what they want. I have no desire to run the instances, but now I am going to have to, that is unless they do what they should do and refund the shards. This is not fun, it is not entertaining it is just another mindless time sink they are forcing on people.</p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>SgtPmpkn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yellow needs to give more than 295 HP (what white ones give now) and Red needs to give more than yellow.Something like yellow: 350HP, red: 450HP.</p></blockquote><p>Seems very reasonable - hope its changed based on this feedback.</p></blockquote><p>They did not ask for feedback on this, SJ was very clear in his post that it was here, it was now and this is how it is going to be. He has not went back to or even read a single post in that thread since making it, although the community manager had time between SC announcements to chime in that they were watching it. No consideration has been given or will be given to any request that is in there.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>These things don't cost that many shards, honestly not very worried about it.  Do one raid night and I'll have enough shards to replace them.  Run 3 nights of instances and have the yellow shards.   Thats all noise really.</p></blockquote><p>You are stretching it a bit here, they cost 10 shards and 5 shards for the yellows you are not going to get 70 shards for red adorns in one night of raiding, run 3 nights of instances I will agree you can come up with 35 shards.</p></blockquote><p>Ok, 2 nights raiding then, still just noise.  I also assumed MOST of the population isn't running 7 CM's anyway.</p>

[Chronus1]

<p>Dang, I was hoping they were decent amounts so all mages would have somthing useful to adorn on their helm and feet slots. As it stands they are pretty useless and need an increased amount.</p>

[Soul_Dreamer]

<p>These really should be at a minimum..White - 295.Yellow - 345.Red - 395.</p><p>150/200 is way too low and doesn't compare at all to the benefits of MA/Crit Bonus etc. Would you really choose 350HP (150+200) over 12 MA (5+7)/4.5(2+2.5) Flurry etc?</p>

[Necrotherian]

<p><cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SgtPmpkn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yellow needs to give more than 295 HP (what white ones give now) and Red needs to give more than yellow.Something like yellow: 350HP, red: 450HP.</p></blockquote><p>Seems very reasonable - hope its changed based on this feedback.</p></blockquote><p>They did not ask for feedback on this, SJ was very clear in his post that it was here, it was now and this is how it is going to be. <strong><em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">He has not went back to or even read a single post in that thread since making it</span></em></strong>, although the community manager had time between SC announcements to chime in that they were watching it. No consideration has been given or will be given to any request that is in there.</p></blockquote><p>Amazing.  How did you manage to sneak in something to monitor which threads SJ reads?</p><p>Or maybe he just hasn't posted in the thread, and the above is merely hyperbole.</p>

[Skandragon]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok, 2 nights raiding then, still just noise.  I also assumed MOST of the population isn't running 7 CM's anyway.</p></blockquote><p>In general, +1.</p><p>I think a lot of people pass through stages though.  When you get your first few red slots, you put CM on them because it made it easier to get the next red slot peice.  After a while you end up still needing the CM to get the next higher tier.  Not until you approach the upper end of what armor can do would you start replacing the CM with other choices.</p>

[Kuulei]

<p>I still think I should be able to turn my old adornment in for a new one. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Now I will have to leave the crafting area and farm more shards <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Lader]

<p>and here i was hoping it would be at least +1% max hp per adornment.</p><p>these numbers are far too low. 250/350 at the very least, when ae's are hitting for 40-50k the hp increase given by these adornments will be negligible.</p>

[Omougi]

<p>Our goal with these adornment and spell conversions is to give you guys something in the place of nothing essentially.  Before, you were playing a zero-sum game if you had enough critmit.  If you didn't have enough critmit, you couldn't do the encounters - period.  All these adornments and spells did is bring you up to a threshold.  If you were past that threshold, it does nothing for you. </p><p>Now, these adornments and spells actually do increase your survivability at all times - equating the amount of critmit lost to an equivalent form of HP doesn't really work out, because any amount of HP is infinitely better than a threshold stat with no use.  If you were slotting your adornments for survivability before, you are still slotting them for survivability with HP - the only change is the adornments have been made <strong>more powerful</strong> in their actual effectiveness with critmit out of the picture.  This change equates to a free survivability gain across the board, and we need to be very careful with numbers at first to ensure things do not get drastically easier.  Changing the difficulty of content is not the goal here - changing the accessibility of content is.</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Our goal with these adornment and spell conversions is to give you guys something in the place of nothing essentially.  Before, you were playing a zero-sum game if you had enough critmit.  If you didn't have enough critmit, you couldn't do the encounters - period.  All these adornments and spells did is bring you up to a threshold.  If you were past that threshold, it does nothing for you. </p><p>Now, these adornments and spells actually do increase your survivability at all times - equating the amount of critmit lost to an equivalent form of HP doesn't really work out, because any amount of HP is infinitely better than a threshold stat with no use.  If you were slotting your adornments for survivability before, you are still slotting them for survivability with HP - the only change is the adornments have been made <strong>more powerful</strong> in their actual effectiveness with critmit out of the picture.  This change equates to a free survivability gain across the board, and we need to be very careful with numbers at first to ensure things do not get drastically easier.  Changing the difficulty of content is not the goal here - changing the accessibility of content is.</p></blockquote><p>They still should be better than the white ones.</p><p>If they are going to be that much of a balancing issue increasing amounts to what they "should" be then why don't you just pop them off and reinburse the shards.</p>

[thewarriorpoet]

<p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Our goal with these adornment and spell conversions is to give you guys something in the place of nothing essentially.  Before, you were playing a zero-sum game if you had enough critmit.  If you didn't have enough critmit, you couldn't do the encounters - period.  All these adornments and spells did is bring you up to a threshold.  If you were past that threshold, it does nothing for you. </p><p>Now, these adornments and spells actually do increase your survivability at all times - equating the amount of critmit lost to an equivalent form of HP doesn't really work out, because any amount of HP is infinitely better than a threshold stat with no use.  If you were slotting your adornments for survivability before, you are still slotting them for survivability with HP - the only change is the adornments have been made <strong>more powerful</strong> in their actual effectiveness with critmit out of the picture.  This change equates to a free survivability gain across the board, and we need to be very careful with numbers at first to ensure things do not get drastically easier.  Changing the difficulty of content is not the goal here - changing the accessibility of content is.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks for taking to time to reply! It is appreciated. Although I agree with your statement that going from essentially 0 to not zero, we should be happy with anything, I think the real issue is lost in looking at it that way. For me at least, this is less about getting something I feel is equal to the CM I had before and more about how it compares to whites. Typically (if not always) yellows are better then whites and reds are better then yellows. That pattern has been broken. If yellow and red HP adorns are made to reflect the pattern we have all come to know, people might actually choose to keep the HP adorns.</p><p>edit- typos</p>

[Kreton]

<p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Our goal with these adornment and spell conversions is to give you guys something in the place of nothing essentially.  Before, you were playing a zero-sum game if you had enough critmit.  If you didn't have enough critmit, you couldn't do the encounters - period.  All these adornments and spells did is bring you up to a threshold.  If you were past that threshold, it does nothing for you. </p><p>Now, these adornments and spells actually do increase your survivability at all times - equating the amount of critmit lost to an equivalent form of HP doesn't really work out, because any amount of HP is infinitely better than a threshold stat with no use.  If you were slotting your adornments for survivability before, you are still slotting them for survivability with HP - the only change is the adornments have been made <strong>more powerful</strong> in their actual effectiveness with critmit out of the picture.  This change equates to a free survivability gain across the board, and we need to be very careful with numbers at first to ensure things do not get drastically easier.  Changing the difficulty of content is not the goal here - changing the accessibility of content is.</p></blockquote><p>Considering the cost of those adorns, they should be more significant than crafted adorns.  There isn't a real good adorn option for casters in the head and feet slot, either, so freeing up this slot for crit mit will do more for melee than casters.</p>

[Lader]

<p>thanks for replying, and i can see your point about going from nothing to something. But this something is extremely small, and content wont be getting drastically easier bc of the hp increase on these adornments because of the amount that the aes are hitting for. What you say is a base increase in survivability is too neglible to actually do anything to increase survivability. Its like me scuba diving at 200 feet and running out of air. If i had had one more breath, i still wouldnt make it to the top.</p>

[Onorem]

<p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Our goal with these adornment and spell conversions is to give you guys something in the place of nothing essentially.  Before, you were playing a zero-sum game if you had enough critmit.  If you didn't have enough critmit, you couldn't do the encounters - period.  All these adornments and spells did is bring you up to a threshold.  If you were past that threshold, it does nothing for you. </p><p>Now, these adornments and spells actually do increase your survivability at all times - equating the amount of critmit lost to an equivalent form of HP doesn't really work out, because any amount of HP is infinitely better than a threshold stat with no use.  If you were slotting your adornments for survivability before, you are still slotting them for survivability with HP - the only change is the adornments have been made <strong>more powerful</strong> in their actual effectiveness with critmit out of the picture.  This change equates to a free survivability gain across the board, and we need to be very careful with numbers at first to ensure things do not get drastically easier.  Changing the difficulty of content is not the goal here - changing the accessibility of content is.</p></blockquote><p>I think the hp #s are low on the trade, but I'm essentially fine with the trade-off from a worthless adornment to something with worth. We can always replace those with something we find useful by popping on a new adornment. I don't like what I've read about the AA changes though. Those we don't really have an option on because we're already grasping for something mildly useful by the time we hit 280.</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>thewarriorpoet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Our goal with these adornment and spell conversions is to give you guys something in the place of nothing essentially.  Before, you were playing a zero-sum game if you had enough critmit.  If you didn't have enough critmit, you couldn't do the encounters - period.  All these adornments and spells did is bring you up to a threshold.  If you were past that threshold, it does nothing for you. </p><p>Now, these adornments and spells actually do increase your survivability at all times - equating the amount of critmit lost to an equivalent form of HP doesn't really work out, because any amount of HP is infinitely better than a threshold stat with no use.  If you were slotting your adornments for survivability before, you are still slotting them for survivability with HP - the only change is the adornments have been made <strong>more powerful</strong> in their actual effectiveness with critmit out of the picture.  This change equates to a free survivability gain across the board, and we need to be very careful with numbers at first to ensure things do not get drastically easier.  Changing the difficulty of content is not the goal here - changing the accessibility of content is.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks for taking to time to reply! It is appreciated. Although I agree with your statement that going from essentially 0 to not zero, we should be happy with anything, I think the real issue is lost in looking at it that way. For me at least, this is less about getting something I feel is equal to the CM I had before and more about how it compares to whites. Typically (if not always) yellows are better then whites and reds are better then yellows. That pattern has been broken. If yellow and red HP adorns are made to reflect the pattern we have all come to know, people might actually choose to keep the HP adorns.</p><p>edit- typos</p></blockquote><p>I don't understand why they are so worried about a few more hps. I mean....they just added the reactant food that gives everybody 1500 hps. What is another couple thousand if people wan't to go more of a defensive spec instead of offensive.</p>

[lazlo1]

<p>Can anyone post some of the HM raid gear from test. I would love to see how many HPs that CM gives us. At least there is a choice with adorns.</p>

[Skandragon]

<p><cite>Kuulei wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Now I will have to leave the crafting area and farm more shards <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Yea, got to get that CM^H^H Health up.  Those crafting tables are epic!</p>

[Skandragon]

<p><cite>Nazon@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Can anyone post some of the HM raid gear from test. I would love to see how many HPs that CM gives us. At least there is a choice with adorns.</p></blockquote><p>From what I can tell, the gear is identical other than CM was removed.  The CM adornment gives 200 health is all.</p>

[Aganon]

<p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Our goal with these adornment and spell conversions is to give you guys something in the place of nothing essentially.  Before, you were playing a zero-sum game if you had enough critmit.  If you didn't have enough critmit, you couldn't do the encounters - period.  All these adornments and spells did is bring you up to a threshold.  If you were past that threshold, it does nothing for you. </p><p>Now, these adornments and spells actually do increase your survivability at all times - equating the amount of critmit lost to an equivalent form of HP doesn't really work out, because any amount of HP is infinitely better than a threshold stat with no use.  If you were slotting your adornments for survivability before, you are still slotting them for survivability with HP - the only change is the adornments have been made <strong>more powerful</strong> in their actual effectiveness with critmit out of the picture.  This change equates to a free survivability gain across the board, and we need to be very careful with numbers at first to ensure things do not get drastically easier.  Changing the difficulty of content is not the goal here - changing the accessibility of content is.</p></blockquote><p>I would MUCH rather have a refund!  </p><p>When mobs are hitting you for thousands, an extra 150 hitpoints here and there is a waste of an adornment slot.  Add in your HP adornments if you want, but give everyone a refund and then let them choose to spend them on what they want.  If they want HP adornments, so be it.  If they want other options, they can go that route.</p><p>And just for the record, it is very condescending and arrogant of you and whoever else who recently made comments along the line saying you are doing us a favor to give us anything in return.  This is not a small change and a lot of players had to spend a lot of hours to get the shards for multiple characters only to be now told be told basically, "Yes, we decided to remove an important and integral stat from the game, but you are lucky if we give you anything so shut up and take it." </p><p>It does not take much common sense to realise that your method is going to irritate and annoy a significant number of players where as a shard refund would likely placate even the most cynical player.</p><p>I do not know why the person(s) in charge of this decision would be so limited as to not see that they have a much less intrusive option that is readily available.</p><p>-Aganon</p>

[Neiloch]

<p><cite>Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't understand why they are so worried about a few more hps. I mean....they just added the reactant food that gives everybody 1500 hps. What is another couple thousand if people wan't to go more of a defensive spec instead of offensive.</p></blockquote><p>Because its better for 'morale' if they slowly increase them instead of overshooting and then nerfing them later.</p><p>I would say you are right in thinking increasing them a good amount wouldn't be a problem, but again from their point of view its better to just increase it slowly than risking having to do a nerf later on, even if the risk is low.</p>

[Geothe]

<p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Our goal with these adornment and spell conversions is to give you guys something in the place of nothing essentially.  Before, you were playing a zero-sum game if you had enough critmit.  If you didn't have enough critmit, you couldn't do the encounters - period.  All these adornments and spells did is bring you up to a threshold.  If you were past that threshold, it does nothing for you. </p><p>Now, these adornments and spells actually do increase your survivability at all times - equating the amount of critmit lost to an equivalent form of HP doesn't really work out, because any amount of HP is infinitely better than a threshold stat with no use.  If you were slotting your adornments for survivability before, you are still slotting them for survivability with HP - the only change is the adornments have been made <strong>more powerful</strong> in their actual effectiveness with critmit out of the picture.  This change equates to a free survivability gain across the board, and we need to be very careful with numbers at first to ensure things do not get drastically easier.  Changing the difficulty of content is not the goal here - changing the accessibility of content is.</p></blockquote><p>Yet still.. where is the logic in more advanced adornments giving significantly weaker bonuses than basic white adorns?In raid i am currently at just under 70k HPs.... 150/200 HP from adorns does basically nothing on that scale if I wanted to "gear up for survivability".  You do know that raiders are in the 70-80k HP range... right?</p>

[Dawkitty]

<p>I honestly don't care anything about being reimbursed shards. I'm swimming in them right now, and can easily replace every slot twice over. I'll even venture to say that most raiders are in the same boat. And even if they're not, it will not hurt you, or your raid, to go 2-3 raids with nothing/hp adorns in.</p><p>Now, I will say this. I do think that adorns should be popped off, even though it was a massive hassle the last time that happened. The reason I want them to be popped off is because I want to see the amount of health bumped up by a large amount, but in exchange for that, have the slots on those adorns limited to chest/legs/etc. I'm thinking ~1.5k health for yellows, and 2.5-3K for reds. I honestly feel that it would give a decent boost that would improve the survivability of anyone, but would not require you to sacrifice all of your adorn slots for that survivability, like we had to with critmit until we got better gear.</p><p>So again, pop off those adorns, boost them a huge amount, and limit to 2, maybe 3, slots so it won't be overly ridiculous.</p>

[Omougi]

<p><cite>Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>thewarriorpoet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Our goal with these adornment and spell conversions is to give you guys something in the place of nothing essentially.  Before, you were playing a zero-sum game if you had enough critmit.  If you didn't have enough critmit, you couldn't do the encounters - period.  All these adornments and spells did is bring you up to a threshold.  If you were past that threshold, it does nothing for you. </p><p>Now, these adornments and spells actually do increase your survivability at all times - equating the amount of critmit lost to an equivalent form of HP doesn't really work out, because any amount of HP is infinitely better than a threshold stat with no use.  If you were slotting your adornments for survivability before, you are still slotting them for survivability with HP - the only change is the adornments have been made <strong>more powerful</strong> in their actual effectiveness with critmit out of the picture.  This change equates to a free survivability gain across the board, and we need to be very careful with numbers at first to ensure things do not get drastically easier.  Changing the difficulty of content is not the goal here - changing the accessibility of content is.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks for taking to time to reply! It is appreciated. Although I agree with your statement that going from essentially 0 to not zero, we should be happy with anything, I think the real issue is lost in looking at it that way. For me at least, this is less about getting something I feel is equal to the CM I had before and more about how it compares to whites. Typically (if not always) yellows are better then whites and reds are better then yellows. That pattern has been broken. If yellow and red HP adorns are made to reflect the pattern we have all come to know, people might actually choose to keep the HP adorns.</p><p>edit- typos</p></blockquote><p>I don't understand why they are so worried about a few more hps. I mean....they just added the reactant food that gives everybody 1500 hps. What is another couple thousand if people wan't to go more of a defensive spec instead of offensive.</p></blockquote><p>A few more HP is possibly the difference between an AE one-shotting and being survivable.  We really don't want guilds to "force" their members into slotting for survivability if they are trying to push progression.  If the HP difference on the adornments was significantly higher, people would feel the need to stack up on HP adorns, similar to how they feel the need to stack up on critmit adorns now. </p><p>We are trying to make customizing your gear with adornments a viable option while progressing through content.  If we make an adornment choice too powerful, then there really isn't much choice there...especially if what you are "forced" into adorning isn't what your class is about.  Many mages and scouts would really prefer to slot more adornments to increase their DPS, but they are forced into critmit adorns in order to not hinder their guild's chance of progress.  We really don't want to replace critmit adorns with hp adorns and have essentially the same problem.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Now, our available choices need some work, specifically with mage options.  We are trying to alleviate the problem by allowing more adornments to go in more slots (critbonus, potency, etc), so that scouts do not get more benefit from this change than mages.  Adding more adornment choices in the future is definitely something we want to do.</p>

[Scrag]

<p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Our goal with these adornment and spell conversions is to give you guys something in the place of nothing essentially.  Before, you were playing a zero-sum game if you had enough critmit.  If you didn't have enough critmit, you couldn't do the encounters - period.  All these adornments and spells did is bring you up to a threshold.  If you were past that threshold, it does nothing for you. </p><p>Now, these adornments and spells actually do increase your survivability at all times - equating the amount of critmit lost to an equivalent form of HP doesn't really work out, because any amount of HP is infinitely better than a threshold stat with no use.  If you were slotting your adornments for survivability before, you are still slotting them for survivability with HP - the only change is the adornments have been made <strong>more powerful</strong> in their actual effectiveness with critmit out of the picture.  This change equates to a free survivability gain across the board, and we need to be very careful with numbers at first to ensure things do not get drastically easier.  Changing the difficulty of content is not the goal here - changing the accessibility of content is.</p></blockquote><p>I realize you folks get spat upon constantly by many people on the forums, but this "You should take what we give you and like it" attitude is a terrible way to keep my business.</p><p>I'm all for removing crit mit from the game. I enjoyed the hours and hours it took me to gear up my toons to 200 and 300+CM. Now don't feed me some trash line about how you're giving us some sort of reward for changing a game mechanic. The conversion is worthless to me, but I can accept it; just don't whizz down my neck and tell me it's raining.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A few more HP is possibly the difference between an AE one-shotting and being survivable.  We really don't want guilds to "force" their members into slotting for survivability if they are trying to push progression.  If the HP difference on the adornments was significantly higher, people would feel the need to stack up on HP adorns, similar to how they feel the need to stack up on critmit adorns now. </p></blockquote><p>I've been playing a different game then you've been developing, cause pushing progression has meant slotting/gearing/specing  for being survivable for a very, very long time.</p>

[Kryvak]

<p>I get what they're trying to do here, but the amount of hp on these is so little it might as well be nothing. I'm sure it is, but I can't help sarcastically asking anyways, is it really that hard to just get us our shards back?</p>

[Hennyo]

<p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>thewarriorpoet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Our goal with these adornment and spell conversions is to give you guys something in the place of nothing essentially.  Before, you were playing a zero-sum game if you had enough critmit.  If you didn't have enough critmit, you couldn't do the encounters - period.  All these adornments and spells did is bring you up to a threshold.  If you were past that threshold, it does nothing for you. </p><p>Now, these adornments and spells actually do increase your survivability at all times - equating the amount of critmit lost to an equivalent form of HP doesn't really work out, because any amount of HP is infinitely better than a threshold stat with no use.  If you were slotting your adornments for survivability before, you are still slotting them for survivability with HP - the only change is the adornments have been made <strong>more powerful</strong> in their actual effectiveness with critmit out of the picture.  This change equates to a free survivability gain across the board, and we need to be very careful with numbers at first to ensure things do not get drastically easier.  Changing the difficulty of content is not the goal here - changing the accessibility of content is.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks for taking to time to reply! It is appreciated. Although I agree with your statement that going from essentially 0 to not zero, we should be happy with anything, I think the real issue is lost in looking at it that way. For me at least, this is less about getting something I feel is equal to the CM I had before and more about how it compares to whites. Typically (if not always) yellows are better then whites and reds are better then yellows. That pattern has been broken. If yellow and red HP adorns are made to reflect the pattern we have all come to know, people might actually choose to keep the HP adorns.</p><p>edit- typos</p></blockquote><p>I don't understand why they are so worried about a few more hps. I mean....they just added the reactant food that gives everybody 1500 hps. What is another couple thousand if people wan't to go more of a defensive spec instead of offensive.</p></blockquote><p>A few more HP is possibly the difference between an AE one-shotting and being survivable.  We really don't want guilds to "force" their members into slotting for survivability if they are trying to push progression.  If the HP difference on the adornments was significantly higher, people would feel the need to stack up on HP adorns, similar to how they feel the need to stack up on critmit adorns now. </p><p>We are trying to make customizing your gear with adornments a viable option while progressing through content.  If we make an adornment choice too powerful, then there really isn't much choice there...especially if what you are "forced" into adorning isn't what your class is about.  Many mages and scouts would really prefer to slot more adornments to increase their DPS, but they are forced into critmit adorns in order to not hinder their guild's chance of progress.  We really don't want to replace critmit adorns with hp adorns and have essentially the same problem.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Now, our available choices need some work, specifically with mage options.  We are trying to alleviate the problem by allowing more adornments to go in more slots (critbonus, potency, etc), so that scouts do not get more benefit from this change than mages.  Adding more adornment choices in the future is definitely something we want to do.</p></blockquote><p>I am actually quite happy to see this post, because it shows me that at least some of this games developers have quite a bit more of a clue than the vast majority of the player base, vocal raiders included. Now about those options for adornment choices, please also consider healers specced for healing when you include mages. As it stands now, on the content where guilds are actually trying to push progression, healers that can put up decent dps numbers and contribute on easier fights, end up for almost the entire fight, spamming either heals or debuffs outside of melee range. Once someone has hit the hp survivability threshold, that their are no current useful adorns for pure healing specced healers on both the head and boots slots.</p><p>Also, for those who are pretending to be looking over the most obvious aspect of gearing for progression, once players have hit the amount of gear they need to survive, the next thing you spec into is always DPS, as most all the top end game progression atm is directly tied to DPS. This oversight is also probably the most common mistake that many guilds make when trying to progress, they aim to get their survivability too high, through a number of various means, and don't focus on their dps enough.</p><p>One last thing, while I am sure you have probably received PM's about the fact that mobs are still getting critical hits on TESTCOPY, please don't overlook this, any criticals at all, is a massive buff to the difficulty level.</p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>Kryvak@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I get what they're trying to do here, but the amount of hp on these is so little it might as well be nothing. I'm sure it is, but I can't help sarcastically asking anyways, is it really that hard to just get us our shards back?</p></blockquote><p>Not at all, they just want to continue to essentially force you to take the adorns they are replacing them with, without actually doing so, if this were not the case the shards would be refunded or you would be able to exchange them with the vendor.</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yellow needs to give more than 295 HP (what white ones give now) and Red needs to give more than yellow.Something like yellow: 350HP, red: 450HP.</p></blockquote><p>Agreed. </p><p>For white adornments, 4.6% MA/CC = 295 HP.  Thus, 7% MA/CC = 450 HP on red adornments.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>Please Refund these items and let the players decide what they want to buy.</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We really don't want to replace critmit adorns with hp adorns and have essentially the same problem.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>So let me get this straight.  You're afraid that 450 HP red adornments, which increase player HP by, at most, about 1%, might become as important as adornments that could reduce damage from critical hits by nearly 7%.  So you gotta nerf that (at most) 1% HP boost down to (at most) 0.5%, just to be safe?</p><p>Just trying to make sense of this <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> </p>

[Te'ana]

<p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>thewarriorpoet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Our goal with these adornment and spell conversions is to give you guys something in the place of nothing essentially.  Before, you were playing a zero-sum game if you had enough critmit.  If you didn't have enough critmit, you couldn't do the encounters - period.  All these adornments and spells did is bring you up to a threshold.  If you were past that threshold, it does nothing for you. </p><p>Now, these adornments and spells actually do increase your survivability at all times - equating the amount of critmit lost to an equivalent form of HP doesn't really work out, because any amount of HP is infinitely better than a threshold stat with no use.  If you were slotting your adornments for survivability before, you are still slotting them for survivability with HP - the only change is the adornments have been made <strong>more powerful</strong> in their actual effectiveness with critmit out of the picture.  This change equates to a free survivability gain across the board, and we need to be very careful with numbers at first to ensure things do not get drastically easier.  Changing the difficulty of content is not the goal here - changing the accessibility of content is.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks for taking to time to reply! It is appreciated. Although I agree with your statement that going from essentially 0 to not zero, we should be happy with anything, I think the real issue is lost in looking at it that way. For me at least, this is less about getting something I feel is equal to the CM I had before and more about how it compares to whites. Typically (if not always) yellows are better then whites and reds are better then yellows. That pattern has been broken. If yellow and red HP adorns are made to reflect the pattern we have all come to know, people might actually choose to keep the HP adorns.</p><p>edit- typos</p></blockquote><p>I don't understand why they are so worried about a few more hps. I mean....they just added the reactant food that gives everybody 1500 hps. What is another couple thousand if people wan't to go more of a defensive spec instead of offensive.</p></blockquote><p>A few more HP is possibly the difference between an AE one-shotting and being survivable.  We really don't want guilds to "force" their members into slotting for survivability if they are trying to push progression.  If the HP difference on the adornments was significantly higher, people would feel the need to stack up on HP adorns, similar to how they feel the need to stack up on critmit adorns now. </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>We are trying to make customizing your gear with adornments a viable option while progressing through content.  If we make an adornment choice too powerful, then there really isn't much choice there...especially if what you are "forced" into adorning isn't what your class is about.  Many mages and scouts would really prefer to slot more adornments to increase their DPS, but they are forced into critmit adorns in order to not hinder their guild's chance of progress.  We really don't want to replace critmit adorns with hp adorns and have essentially the same problem.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></strong></span></p><p>Now, our available choices need some work, specifically with mage options.  We are trying to alleviate the problem by allowing more adornments to go in more slots (critbonus, potency, etc), so that scouts do not get more benefit from this change than mages.  Adding more adornment choices in the future is definitely something we want to do.</p></blockquote><p>We get this, we just don't want you to change the stats on CM adorm=nments to a small amount of health. I and many others would be quite happy to skip this minimal stat and get our shards and plat back to buy adornments we think are useful.</p>

[Kunaak]

<p>ok - 2 things.</p><p>if your gonna give HP adorns - give power adorns as well - make them of equal value to whatever the final HP adorns end up with.</p><p>the difference between the heroic HP adorn and raid adorns is so small they barely would have any real impact on survivability.</p><p>when AEs are hitting for 40-50k and such, a extra 2k HP from these adorns isnt gonna do much.</p><p>given a clear choice of a extra 150 HP, or 5 MA, I would clearly choose the DPS option, since maybe my survivability isnt maxed out, but DPS is, and a whole raid like this, would kill things alot faster, meaning the worry off massive damage is negated by killing mobs faster.</p><p>the 295 HP adorns from adorners, should be your base, not the top end. people wear the 295's reluctantly, but given a choice between 295 HP, or +21 to weapons skill, its hard to argue one is better then the other - atleast as far as white adorns go, in the case of helms and hands.</p><p>but given a choice between 200HP - and 7 MA, thats not even a slightly viable choice.</p><p>the HP adorns need to be more tangible in benefits, so you cant say "7 MA is better then 200hp".</p><p>lastly, if the feedback here goes largely ignored and the HP adorns end up being the same as they are today - atleast unadorn the gear the day it goes live, and give us some sort of means of temporarily exchanging adorns straight across for a adorn we would actually like to use. say a temp exchange merchant by momo for a week.</p>

[Juravael]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yellow needs to give more than 295 HP (what white ones give now) and Red needs to give more than yellow.Something like yellow: 350HP, red: 450HP.</p></blockquote><p>Agreed.</p>

[Lader]

<p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Now, our available choices need some work, specifically with mage options.  We are trying to alleviate the problem by allowing more adornments to go in more slots (critbonus, potency, etc), so that scouts do not get more benefit from this change than mages.  Adding more adornment choices in the future is definitely something we want to do.</p></blockquote><p>can we include priests in that too? basically as a defiler i can spec for multiattack. And while i love to melee, there are some options that i think would be better suited for all casters, not just mages. with the changes currently, i will forego the hp increases for the ma adorns, but it isnt what id prefer to do.</p>

[Hardain]

<p>If you leave them that low, no one will ever buy them. There are far better choices, unless you're mage or priest, and if you add new adornments for them, they don't need them either.</p>

[-Arctura-]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please Refund these items and let the players decide what they want to buy.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, it was done in the past as an opt-in and it was very wise.</p><p>The player knows best what the player needs, in regards to their own personal choices and preferences for their character.</p><p>It is time for a one-time Full Equipment Unadorn and Unattune in both equipped and bag/bank slot gear.</p><p>Many people store and have been storing alternate sets of gear for Critmit purposes in bags and banks, so a 'currently equipped only' unadorn/unattune would not help much if at all.</p><p><span style="font-size: small; color: #ff0000;"><strong></strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; color: #ff0000;"><strong>Please make the right choice here, allow us to OPT-IN to popping off these adorns and unattuning gear that was chosen solely for a stat that is now gone.</strong></span></p>

[Tigress]

<p>i wont be keeping health adornments.  crit bonus, potency, crit chance would have been a much better choice.</p><p>what is best for one class may not be the best for another class.  let us exchange them.  we bought them bc they were required.  it would be better if we could exchange bc then ppl can customize. </p><p>im going to stop buying the crit mit adornments when i get a new piece of gear.  i dont want to waste the shards for a health adornment when a potency adornment would be much better for me.  i disagree that "priests need the health".  everybody could use health but there comes a pt when its better to make your adornments more powerful.</p>

[Tigress]

<p><cite>Scrag@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Our goal with these adornment and spell conversions is to give you guys something in the place of nothing essentially.  Before, you were playing a zero-sum game if you had enough critmit.  If you didn't have enough critmit, you couldn't do the encounters - period.  All these adornments and spells did is bring you up to a threshold.  If you were past that threshold, it does nothing for you. </p><p>Now, these adornments and spells actually do increase your survivability at all times - equating the amount of critmit lost to an equivalent form of HP doesn't really work out, because any amount of HP is infinitely better than a threshold stat with no use.  If you were slotting your adornments for survivability before, you are still slotting them for survivability with HP - the only change is the adornments have been made <strong>more powerful</strong> in their actual effectiveness with critmit out of the picture.  This change equates to a free survivability gain across the board, and we need to be very careful with numbers at first to ensure things do not get drastically easier.  Changing the difficulty of content is not the goal here - changing the accessibility of content is.</p></blockquote><p>I realize you folks get spat upon constantly by many people on the forums, but this "You should take what we give you and like it" attitude is a terrible way (snipped))</p></blockquote><p>i agree with that.  how rude and condescending!</p>

[MrWolfie]

<p><cite>Onorem wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't like what I've read about the AA changes though. Those we don't really have an option on because we're already grasping for something mildly useful by the time we hit 280.</p></blockquote><p>AAs affect everyone in game though, so not everyone is going to agree with you or have the same view. Red adorns on the other hand, tend to be used by a specific player and playstyle. The views on those are likely to be similar across the players that'll be affected.</p>

[Onorem]

<p><cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Onorem wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't like what I've read about the AA changes though. Those we don't really have an option on because we're already grasping for something mildly useful by the time we hit 280.</p></blockquote><p>AAs affect everyone in game though, so not everyone is going to agree with you or have the same view. Red adorns on the other hand, tend to be used by a specific player and playstyle. The views on those are likely to be similar across the players that'll be affected.</p></blockquote><p>The AA changes listed on Thursdays notes affect 9 classes. Clearly not everyone is going to agree on what they change them to no matter what they do. I'm not happy with the idea of a small hp buff in place of what used to have some real (if situational) use. I'm sure I'll spec for it, but that's just because extra health will still be better than other options once past 280 AA...and those points have to go somewhere.</p><p>The adornments affect everyone who had them. Clearly not everyone is going to agree on what they change them to no matter what they do, but at least everyone will have the option to choose something different if they don't like it.</p>

[Mermut]

<p><cite>Onorem wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><p>The AA changes listed on Thursdays notes affect 9 classes. Clearly not everyone is going to agree on what they change them to no matter what they do. I'm not happy with the idea of a small hp buff in place of what used to have some real (if situational) use. I'm sure I'll spec for it, but that's just because extra health will still be better than other options once past 280 AA...and those points have to go somewhere.</p><p>The adornments affect everyone who had them. Clearly not everyone is going to agree on what they change them to no matter what they do, but at least everyone will have the option to choose something different if they don't like it.</p></blockquote><p>The warden change to critical debilitation is rather sad.. a maximum 2.5% health increase (with 5 AA) will still put it at less of a health buff (on almost all targets) then Aspect of the Forest. An AA on the final line of the warden shadow page that is inferior to a normal warden buff is a sad replacement for something that used to be something only wardens can get. My warden willl probably keep it for a short time to see how much or little use it actually is, but I wish they'd thought about it a bit more rather then deciding (as they did with adornments) that a token amount of more health is just as useful as something that could reduce incoming damage by up to 15%. If 1k hps is regularly making the different between life and death for a single toon, there are some other major problems that need to be addressed with gear, group composition, placement, cures, etc.</p>

[Jrel]

<p>I don't want my crit mit adorns replaced with hp adorns.  I want a shard refund vendor.  A lot of plat goes into buying those adorns.</p>

[Kuulei]

<p><strong>Omougi</strong></p><p>I understand what you mean.  They are removing CM from game.  Removing CM adornments from the game means nothing in that spot.  To buffer the outcry, we are getting "something" in the form of a "free" adornment of health.</p><p>What I think most would agree upon, is that critical mitigation was taken as an adornment because it was necessary, not because it was the adornment of choice.</p><p>If CM had never been in the game, I would not have picked a 150 health adornment to place on each of the slots.  It really depends on the class and how they are played and the slot being adorned!  I'd like Critcal Chance on my head and hate reduction on my Chest and potency on my forearms.. etc.</p><p>You're adressing this as if Critical Mitigation was the only adornment in game!  Why is it so hard to just let us exchange them or reimburse the platinum and shards?</p><p>I am a very casual player, but I try to be geared enough to survive for groups that need a fair healer.  We are the ones that will have try and find groups to replace the "free" health adornments.</p>

[Dorsan]

<p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Our goal with these adornment and spell conversions is to give you guys something in the place of nothing essentially.  Before, you were playing a zero-sum game if you had enough critmit.  If you didn't have enough critmit, you couldn't do the encounters - period.  All these adornments and spells did is bring you up to a threshold.  If you were past that threshold, it does nothing for you. </p><p>Now, these adornments and spells actually do increase your survivability at all times - equating the amount of critmit lost to an equivalent form of HP doesn't really work out, because any amount of HP is infinitely better than a threshold stat with no use.  If you were slotting your adornments for survivability before, you are still slotting them for survivability with HP - the only change is the adornments have been made <strong>more powerful</strong> in their actual effectiveness with critmit out of the picture.  This change equates to a free survivability gain across the board, and we need to be very careful with numbers at first to ensure things do not get drastically easier.  Changing the difficulty of content is not the goal here - changing the accessibility of content is.</p></blockquote><p>The values you provided are so laughable that no one at their right minds will adorn those health adornments to their gear. So in fact you gave us nothing.</p>

[Myrien]

<p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Our goal with these adornment and spell conversions is to give you guys something in the place of nothing essentially.  Before, you were playing a zero-sum game if you had enough critmit.  If you didn't have enough critmit, you couldn't do the encounters - period.  All these adornments and spells did is bring you up to a threshold.  If you were past that threshold, it does nothing for you. </p><p>Now, these adornments and spells actually do increase your survivability at all times - equating the amount of critmit lost to an equivalent form of HP doesn't really work out, because any amount of HP is infinitely better than a threshold stat with no use.  If you were slotting your adornments for survivability before, you are still slotting them for survivability with HP - the only change is the adornments have been made <strong>more powerful</strong> in their actual effectiveness with critmit out of the picture.  This change equates to a free survivability gain across the board, and we need to be very careful with numbers at first to ensure things do not get drastically easier.  Changing the difficulty of content is not the goal here - changing the accessibility of content is.</p></blockquote><p>This may have been stated prior, but if so, then it bears repeating:  Existing red-slot adornments give 1.2k health.  It would be intuitive, then, for any red-slot adornments converted to health, to give that same amount.  To be perfectly honest with you, the 200 health that we're going to get from red adornments is trivial at best.  EVen if you put it on all seven slots, that's only 1.4k health.  Barely more than ONE existing red slot health adornment.  When you're raiding, that amount of health doesn't do much to increase survivability.  In my opinion, the best thing to do would simply be remove those crit mit adornments altogether, and give people the shards back for each one removed.  Let us adorn items as we see fit, sans the paltry 200 health per adorn.</p>

[Fyang]

<p>I'd like to say change HP adornments to base on %maxhp style is better for future.</p>

[Kryvak]

<p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>thewarriorpoet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Our goal with these adornment and spell conversions is to give you guys something in the place of nothing essentially.  Before, you were playing a zero-sum game if you had enough critmit.  If you didn't have enough critmit, you couldn't do the encounters - period.  All these adornments and spells did is bring you up to a threshold.  If you were past that threshold, it does nothing for you. </p><p>Now, these adornments and spells actually do increase your survivability at all times - equating the amount of critmit lost to an equivalent form of HP doesn't really work out, because any amount of HP is infinitely better than a threshold stat with no use.  If you were slotting your adornments for survivability before, you are still slotting them for survivability with HP - the only change is the adornments have been made <strong>more powerful</strong> in their actual effectiveness with critmit out of the picture.  This change equates to a free survivability gain across the board, and we need to be very careful with numbers at first to ensure things do not get drastically easier.  Changing the difficulty of content is not the goal here - changing the accessibility of content is.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks for taking to time to reply! It is appreciated. Although I agree with your statement that going from essentially 0 to not zero, we should be happy with anything, I think the real issue is lost in looking at it that way. For me at least, this is less about getting something I feel is equal to the CM I had before and more about how it compares to whites. Typically (if not always) yellows are better then whites and reds are better then yellows. That pattern has been broken. If yellow and red HP adorns are made to reflect the pattern we have all come to know, people might actually choose to keep the HP adorns.</p><p>edit- typos</p></blockquote><p>I don't understand why they are so worried about a few more hps. I mean....they just added the reactant food that gives everybody 1500 hps. What is another couple thousand if people wan't to go more of a defensive spec instead of offensive.</p></blockquote><p>A few more HP is possibly the difference between an AE one-shotting and being survivable.  We really don't want guilds to "force" their members into slotting for survivability if they are trying to push progression.  If the HP difference on the adornments was significantly higher, people would feel the need to stack up on HP adorns, similar to how they feel the need to stack up on critmit adorns now. </p><p>We are trying to make customizing your gear with adornments a viable option while progressing through content.  If we make an adornment choice too powerful, then there really isn't much choice there...especially if what you are "forced" into adorning isn't what your class is about.  Many mages and scouts would really prefer to slot more adornments to increase their DPS, but they are forced into critmit adorns in order to not hinder their guild's chance of progress.  We really don't want to replace critmit adorns with hp adorns and have essentially the same problem.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Now, our available choices need some work, specifically with mage options.  We are trying to alleviate the problem by allowing more adornments to go in more slots (critbonus, potency, etc), so that scouts do not get more benefit from this change than mages.  Adding more adornment choices in the future is definitely something we want to do.</p></blockquote><p>Basically what he's saying (in a less polished and nice way) is "We really don't want to give you anything useful in place of this, but we don't want to just remove the adorns you have on completely." It isn't a bad thing, the point isn't to give you adorns equal in use to the crit mit adorns, but just to be a placeholder until you get other adorns. Complaining about how bad the adorns are will get you nowhere, because they weren't meant to be good.</p>

[Daalilama]

<p>Screw the "placeholder adornment" junk and refund the darn shards no one in their right minds is going to keep the pisspoor converted critmit to hp adorns for more then the time it takes them to replace them and any dev believing that 150/200 hp adorns are worth keeping is not familiar with how game mechanics play out on live....</p>

[Carryne]

<p>I also would prefer a refund or maybe change them into tokens which could be spent with an exchange merchant on the docks.</p>

[Aven Elonis]

<p><cite>-Arctura- wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please Refund these items and let the players decide what they want to buy.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, it was done in the past as an opt-in and it was very wise.</p><p>The player knows best what the player needs, in regards to their own personal choices and preferences for their character.</p><p>It is time for a one-time Full Equipment Unadorn and Unattune in both equipped and bag/bank slot gear.</p><p>Many people store and have been storing alternate sets of gear for Critmit purposes in bags and banks, so a 'currently equipped only' unadorn/unattune would not help much if at all.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000; font-size: small;"><strong></strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000; font-size: small;"><strong>Please make the right choice here, allow us to OPT-IN to popping off these adorns and unattuning gear that was chosen solely for a stat that is now gone.</strong></span></p></blockquote><p>Agreed - let us have a choice.</p><p>Avenn, 90 Guardian, Audacity - Oasis</p>

[Talathion]

<p>Refund please.</p>

[Dorsan]

I still think that even for the purpose it was made the health adorns are way too low. The problem is that they are so low that they are subpar to every single red/yellow adornment in the game. If you look at white -> red adornment progression, it's clear that the red adornments are 1.5 times stronger than the white ones that do the same thing. So by that the red health adornments should give 443 health and the yellow ones 367 health. Also, since we were able to increase pet survivability with crit mit adorns, now we are left with 0 options to do that. So pet classes will get hit by this change because we will simply get the pets with the defensive stats we get with 0 gear and it will just stay the same no matter how much we gear up. So any aoe's that go through aoe prevention will just one shot pets at some point. So please, red health adornment to 443 health, yellow to 367 health and make the health shared stat. (It's not present on any gear, and can only be added with adornments so this would not unbalance anything)

[Asif]

<p>Refund please you are the folks who forced the CM adorns on us and are now taking then away.</p><p>Dont always take the easy way out soe.</p>

[Maroger]

<p><cite>akin99 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would prefer a refund of shards to let me buy the adorns I want, but if that is not doable the amount of health needs to go way up. 500 and 750 at least.</p></blockquote><p>I agree I would prefer a shard refund.  I think the current health being given is a gyp.</p>

[Netty]

<p>I cant even understand you ppl here. Refund on the shards? When you would have got the right CM for something you would have replaced them anyway... So what are you on about? Just buy new and get over it or keep them if you wish. Im sitting on around 600shards + that are collecting dust atm and couldent care less if i got to replace them i would be happy since now i can put on usefull stats.</p>

[yohann koldheart]

<p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Our goal with these adornment and spell conversions is to give you guys something in the place of nothing essentially.  Before, you were playing a zero-sum game if you had enough critmit.  If you didn't have enough critmit, you couldn't do the encounters - period.  All these adornments and spells did is bring you up to a threshold.  If you were past that threshold, it does nothing for you. </p><p>Now, these adornments and spells actually do increase your survivability at all times - equating the amount of critmit lost to an equivalent form of HP doesn't really work out, because any amount of HP is infinitely better than a threshold stat with no use.  If you were slotting your adornments for survivability before, you are still slotting them for survivability with HP - the only change is the adornments have been made <strong>more powerful</strong> in their actual effectiveness with critmit out of the picture.  This change equates to a free survivability gain across the board, and we need to be very careful with numbers at first to ensure things do not get drastically easier.  Changing the difficulty of content is not the goal here - changing the accessibility of content is.</p></blockquote><p>nobodys arguing that, what people are saying is the hp values are way to low.</p><p>no way should a yellow or red adorn have less hp then a white slot crafted adorn.</p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>yohann koldheart wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>nobodys arguing that, what people are saying is the hp values are way to low.</p><p><strong>no way should a yellow or red adorn have less hp then a white slot crafted adorn.</strong></p></blockquote><p>The fact that this has to be pointed out to them is in part one of the biggest reasons that things are in the state that they are in.</p>

[Zergosch]

<p>i dont get it, at least i hope so....</p><p>cm will be removed from armor and replaced by nothing?</p><p>was hoping as higher as cm was, the hp on gear went up? or stats? or any? or something shiny? ^^</p><p>at least, better then ..... ok, i try to think about ^^</p>

[Boli32]

<p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Our goal with these adornment and spell conversions is to give you guys something in the place of nothing essentially.  Before, you were playing a zero-sum game if you had enough critmit.  If you didn't have enough critmit, you couldn't do the encounters - period.  All these adornments and spells did is bring you up to a threshold.  If you were past that threshold, it does nothing for you. </p><p>Now, these adornments and spells actually do increase your survivability at all times - equating the amount of critmit lost to an equivalent form of HP doesn't really work out, because any amount of HP is infinitely better than a threshold stat with no use.  If you were slotting your adornments for survivability before, you are still slotting them for survivability with HP - the only change is the adornments have been made <strong>more powerful</strong> in their actual effectiveness with critmit out of the picture.  This change equates to a free survivability gain across the board, and we need to be very careful with numbers at first to ensure things do not get drastically easier.  Changing the difficulty of content is not the goal here - changing the accessibility of content is.</p></blockquote><p>Not to be a pain but if you are talking zero sum then you'll get a lot less grief if you did a straight refund for shards/plat via a merchant instead of creating what are eseentially underpowered adorns.</p>

[Daalilama]

<p><cite>Boli@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Our goal with these adornment and spell conversions is to give you guys something in the place of nothing essentially.  Before, you were playing a zero-sum game if you had enough critmit.  If you didn't have enough critmit, you couldn't do the encounters - period.  All these adornments and spells did is bring you up to a threshold.  If you were past that threshold, it does nothing for you. </p><p>Now, these adornments and spells actually do increase your survivability at all times - equating the amount of critmit lost to an equivalent form of HP doesn't really work out, because any amount of HP is infinitely better than a threshold stat with no use.  If you were slotting your adornments for survivability before, you are still slotting them for survivability with HP - the only change is the adornments have been made <strong>more powerful</strong> in their actual effectiveness with critmit out of the picture.  This change equates to a free survivability gain across the board, and we need to be very careful with numbers at first to ensure things do not get drastically easier.  Changing the difficulty of content is not the goal here - changing the accessibility of content is.</p></blockquote><p><strong>Not to be a pain but if you are talking zero sum then you'll get a lot less grief if you did a straight refund for shards/plat via a merchant instead of creating what are eseentially underpowered adorns.</strong></p></blockquote><p>Boli, considering how pisspoor the replacement hp adorns are, calling them underpowered adorns is giving underpowered adorns a bad name.</p>

[Banditman]

<p>Pop off all red and yellow adorns, give us a vendor to buy HP adorns for the shard cost.  Problem solved.</p>

[Tallisman]

<p>I'd like a refund too. I can then re-decide how I want to re-distribute my adornments.</p><p>(Mind you, this is all probably moot for me with the imminent ProSiebenSat partnership... I may not be here).</p>

[NANEEJE]

<p><cite>Inglip@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is quite subjective really; it depends on how much health you have already. A 200 health adornment might not seem a big deal when you have 40k HP but when you consider there are what, like 7 slots you can put these in to, that's a lot of extra health!</p><p>I'd say the conversion is just right, and would suit the majority of players.</p></blockquote><p>White slot adornments are up to 295 health... cost? one distilled mana, few infusions and powders/fragments.</p><p>New red slot with 200 health? Cost? full night plus of farming named in x4/x2 to get 10 blue shards for this?</p><p>No, not a good conversion, I think we all expect that red slot adornments should be min. 350-500. No reason a tank shouldn't be able to add 500x7 for 3,500 extra health.  In the grand scheme of things, that is the difference I have now in my dps to hard mode tank spec.</p><p>This needs to change.</p>

[NANEEJE]

<p><cite>Aven Elonis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000; font-size: small;"><strong></strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000; font-size: small;"><strong>Please make the right choice here, allow us to OPT-IN to popping off these adorns and unattuning gear that was chosen solely for a stat that is now gone.</strong></span></p></blockquote><p>Agreed - let us have a choice.</p><p>Avenn, 90 Guardian, Audacity - Oasis</p></blockquote><p>This needs to happen, anything else is going to be a major "we don't really listen to you" fix.</p><p>I have high hopes that they have heard us and will instill some sort of buyback or unattune.</p>

[technologically]

<p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong>We are trying to make customizing your gear with adornments a viable option while progressing through content.</strong>  If we make an adornment choice too powerful, then there really isn't much choice there...especially if what you are "forced" into adorning isn't what your class is about.  Many mages and scouts would really prefer to slot more adornments to increase their DPS, but they are forced into critmit adorns in order to not hinder their guild's chance of progress.  We really don't want to replace critmit adorns with hp adorns and have essentially the same problem.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Now, our available choices need some work, specifically with mage options.  We are trying to alleviate the problem by allowing more adornments to go in more slots (critbonus, potency, etc), so that scouts do not get more benefit from this change than mages.  Adding more adornment choices in the future is definitely something we want to do.</p></blockquote><p>If you really feel this way, you should take a long hard look at how incredibly small a difference the adornments are currently making to toons with end-game gear.  As you are no longer increasing the game level, and using itemization to determine progression, top progression players are being forced into using previous tier (launch DoV) adornments.</p><p>I suggest adding questlines that are basically zone progression checks, that allow access to new vendors with superior adornment choices/values.  I.E. if you've finished the signature questline, you can get new yellows, if you've finished EM Vallon you can get new red.</p><p>If you think it's only the mage options that are particularly bad, what are you planning for scouts, when they are plane of war geared and hit the effective multiattack cap? They'll be in the same place as the mages after that.</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>NANEEJE wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Inglip@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is quite subjective really; it depends on how much health you have already. A 200 health adornment might not seem a big deal when you have 40k HP but when you consider there are what, like 7 slots you can put these in to, that's a lot of extra health!</p><p>I'd say the conversion is just right, and would suit the majority of players.</p></blockquote><p>White slot adornments are up to 295 health... cost? one distilled mana, few infusions and powders/fragments.</p><p>New red slot with 200 health? Cost? full night plus of farming named in x4/x2 to get 10 blue shards for this?</p></blockquote><p>Well, for white adornments, 295 HP is supposed to balance with 4.6% MA/CC/casting speed.  That balance isn't too far off, since some people actually use the 295 HP white adornments, but no one claims that they're "required."  Now they're trying to make us weigh 200 HP against 7% MA/CC/casting speed (ect) for these new red adornments, and no one in their right mind thinks that's a tough choice.</p><p>To be honest, they could completely remove the crit mit adorns instead of replacing them, and I wouldn't really care.  I'm just bothered by the fact that the itemization people working on this game lack even the <strong>slightest</strong> idea how to balance things.</p>

[Odys]

<p>There is one red adorn with 1200 hp (yeah you can only use one). Seven red adorns will give 1400 hps. Honesly nobody will consider using them. Even on a defensive priest 7 MA adorns will be be better than 1400 hps.</p><p>In any case a refund of our raid shard would be a good idea. I quite hate the dea to have compulsory adornments replaced by a very small amount of Hps.</p>

[Meatwaggon]

<blockquote>Now, our available choices need some work, specifically with mage options.  We are trying to alleviate the problem by allowing more adornments to go in more slots (critbonus, potency, etc), so that scouts do not get more benefit from this change than mages.  Adding more adornment choices in the future is definitely something we want to do.</blockquote><p>Scouts would drool at crit bonus adorns being able to go into head and feet slots.  If there is ANY degree of sincerity to this line, the only change should be to make potency adorns also available for head and feet without changing anything else.  This would make things FAIR, as scouts are already allowed to adorn MA on pretty much everything while mages currently get to put nothing but [drum roll].... <strong>CM adorns</strong> on head and feet.  And this change should definitely be implemented at the same time as getting rid of CM adorns, not "in the future" like some future expac or something.</p>

[Maroger]

<p><cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There is one red adorn with 1200 hp (yeah you can only use one). Seven red adorns will give 1400 hps. Honesly nobody will consider using them. Even on a defensive priest 7 MA adorns will be be better than 1400 hps.</p><p>In any case a refund of our raid shard would be a good idea. I quite hate the dea to have compulsory adornments replaced by a very small amount of Hps.</p></blockquote><p>I agree - the health we are getting is junk - I would have gotten other red adorns if I had know CM was going to be removed. This is really cheaing players - They should pop out all CM adorns and refund the shard so we can get something else . That is the only fair thing to do.</p>