Critical Mitigation Removed

[SmokeJumper]

<p><strong><span style="color: #00ff00;">***This change is now on Test***</span></strong></p><p>We’ve listened to all of your conversations since Critical Mitigation was originally introduced. The dev team has extensively debated about it internally. (Very extensively.) But ultimately, we decided that the right move for EQII is to remove Critical Mitigation entirely from the game. Critical Mitigation initially seemed to do what it was designed for, but it has always suffered from a complete lack of intuitiveness for players, and it’s not a forward-extensible system. Ultimately, it doesn’t add any fun factor to the game.  So we’ve decided that a complete removal of it is by far the best solution for all concerned. Here are the details:</p><ul><li>Critical Mitigation (the stat) has been removed from the game.</li><li>Critical Mitigation no longer displays on the Character pane (for obvious reasons, since it’s no longer in the game).</li><li>NPCs no longer use Critical Bonus to add to critical damage.</li><li>Buffs and debuffs that have Critical Mitigation elements to them will have those elements replaced with other elements instead, so that those buffs/debuffs do not lose effectiveness.</li><li>Critical Mitigation values on adornments will be replaced with hit point values instead.</li></ul><p> NOTE: This change has no effect on PvP game play. The “PvP Critical Mitigation” stat is still useful for game balance in PvP play and is not being changed.</p>

[Rageincarnate]

<p>YAY!!!!     /blinks..  we can actually choose to put adorns on other then cm!!   We don't need a second set of gear just for crit mit!?!?!   pushing farming times even longer ?!?!</p><p>/faints  I have choices again! </p><p>It's not april fools is it?</p>

[Foretold]

<p>Wow!</p><p>Wish I could get back all those shards I spent on red crit mit adorns, but I still have enough to do plenty of new red adorn shopping <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Rageincarnate]

<p>wait a sec :/   the crit mit values on gear current gear?  what are you doing with that? </p><p>I'm thinking let us reforge them ourselves.. just open reforging a little more to have more options.</p><p>I don't think i'll be happy long if i see my crit mit changed to wisdom or something crazy on my fighter bp.</p>

[Lader]

<p>love this announcement. now we dont have to go back to older raids to gear up recruits.</p>

[Vitriol]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><ul><li>Buffs and debuffs that have Critical Mitigation elements to them will have those elements replaced with other elements instead, so that those buffs/debuffs do not lose effectiveness.</li></ul></blockquote><p>Please, from a warden's point of view, don't mess up the buff you give us instead of Critical Debilitation.</p>

[Jrel]

<p>OMG!  </p><p>Wait, is it April 1?   <pinches self></p>

[Mystfit]

<p>I'm curious, How will this affect *the little guy*. As in, non-radier, non-mega geared person. We are basically trolling in the easier beginning DOV instances, but mostly because we want to run 3 people, 3 mercs and scripting is too heavy in many zones to not have 6 real people and not, I assume, because of crit mit. Will we see any progression in our eq2 experience. I'd love it, we've felt so down-trodden for so long, but am not clear enough on crit mit to know it it affected our progression.</p>

[Lempo]

<p>Sounds like a quick fix to get Plane of War opened up.</p><p>Those details are not really details, they are short little blurbs, if this has been debated extensively internally there must be more information than this.</p>

[Keelinn]

<p>Do I get all my plat/shards refunded for all the adorns I had to buy :p</p>

[Madie]

<p>   Three cheers for making it so any noob can have the stats to raid yet again..    You basically  handed them Rygor gear, that many of us worked very hard to earn.. Now we can't even check CM as a way to know if people "actually" know how to set their toon up.. and  Live..  Wooooo Hooo    /rolls eyes</p>

[Coniaric]

<p><cite>Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>wait a sec :/   the crit mit values on gear current gear?  what are you doing with that? </p><p>I'm thinking let us reforge them ourselves.. just open reforging a little more to have more options.</p><p>I don't think i'll be happy long if i see my crit mit changed to wisdom or something crazy on my fighter bp.</p></blockquote><p>Reread the post again.</p><li><em>Critical Mitigation values on adornments will be replaced with hit point values instead.</em></li><p>I don't think you'll need to worry about having wisdom showing up on your fighter gear, or anything else, at this point.</p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>Mystfit wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm curious, How will this affect *the little guy*. As in, non-radier, non-mega geared person. We are basically trolling in the easier beginning DOV instances, but mostly because we want to run 3 people, 3 mercs and scripting is too heavy in many zones to not have 6 real people and not, I assume, because of crit mit. Will we see any progression in our eq2 experience. I'd love it, we've felt so down-trodden for so long, but am not clear enough on crit mit to know it it affected our progression.</p></blockquote><p>If you want to run 3 people and 3 mercs then run easy zones, I don't see the point here beyond you saying "Make the zones easy enough so we can do it with 3 people and 3 mercs, because we don't want to run with 6 people we want the extra gear that the mercs do not take any part of."</p>

[Gravy]

<p><cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Sounds like a quick fix to get Plane of War opened up.</p></blockquote><p>Yep. More evidence of what <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=40&topic_id=514244�" target="_blank">I posted earlier:</a></p><p style="padding-left: 30px;">Don't think the game is broken? Ask yourself, how come nearly update post DoV included a nerf of DoV zones? Because they were broken and rather than fix them, SoE just made them a bit easier. Then a bit more easier. Then a bit more easier....</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"> </p><p>Crit Mit was a broken mechanic from the start. They tried to compensate by nerfing DoV zones from almost day 1. They got to the point where they couldn't nerf much more so they had to pull it.</p>

[Madie]

<p>Why not refund the plat/shards that was spent on CM adorns...  I'd be less inclined to put HP adorns on my healer then I was CM... sooooo If I could kindly just get my raid shards and plat back to pick what I want? Thank you </p>

[Hanonu]

<p>Why not, instead of removing it completely, just lower the needed amounts necessary for zones? Or increase the amounts on adorns and gear and make some of it slightly more accessable for the guilds/people who dont raid 4-6 times a week?</p><p>Just a suggestion *shrug*</p>

[Sedenten]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><ul><li>Buffs and debuffs that have Critical Mitigation elements to them will have those elements replaced with other elements instead, so that those buffs/debuffs do not lose effectiveness.</li></ul></blockquote><p>Remember to change item <em>procs</em> that buffed critical migitation during this sweep, too! (specifically, Sentinel's Fate items)</p>

[Wanic]

<p>I liked the idea of critical mitigation, it allowed me to aim for something before i entered a new dungeon. </p><p>So what happens now? In the form of dungeon progression i mean, can we literally wander into drunder zones of the bat? </p>

[Iskandar]

<p><cite>Mystfit wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm curious, How will this affect *the little guy*. As in, non-radier, non-mega geared person. We are basically trolling in the easier beginning DOV instances, but mostly because we want to run 3 people, 3 mercs and scripting is too heavy in many zones to not have 6 real people and not, I assume, because of crit mit. Will we see any progression in our eq2 experience. I'd love it, we've felt so down-trodden for so long, but am not clear enough on crit mit to know it it affected our progression.</p></blockquote><p>Basically, it means that crit mit requirements will no longer be a barrier to casual players for accessing the Kael or Drunder instances -- which will be more heroic choices for your 3-man/3-merc group. It also means that raids will have a much easier time of gearing up new members who begin with heroic/crafted gear -- no more farming EM! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I'm glad I checked the forums today -- my "to do" list for today included buying 7 crit mit adorns for a new Warden alt! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Zergosch]

<p>i dont see a prob if it would be removed for heroic content, but for raid? oO there are some items that only have a use for having high critmit on them....</p>

[Cyliena]

<p>It's about time. I can't recall any players thinking this was a great idea even back during DoV beta.</p>

[MystsofLedge12]

<p>well...... then what magic stat will we need? if Crit Mit is no longer an issue........ ok so rather than fix the crit hits that mobs pop you just remove it...... I hate to say it but EQ2 with this will take a step towards some other game that has been sold by Shatner, Ozzy and now Chuck Norris.</p><p>Why not let us keep the crit mit.... just weaken some of the mob's ability to crit, there has to be some challenge and strat to these dungeons.... tank n spank gets a bit old.</p><p>Edit: and WAAIIIIIITTTT i dont have as much Crit Mit as other but well I EARNED WHAT I GOT!</p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>Madie wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>   Three cheers for making it so any noob can have the stats to raid yet again..    You basically  handed them Rygor gear, that many of us worked very hard to earn.. Now we can't even check CM as a way to know if people "actually" know how to set their toon up.. and  Live..  Wooooo Hooo    /rolls eyes</p></blockquote><p>Within 2 weeks of this going live the board is going to be flooded with demands that the mobs not have crit avoidance because people will think that they have business in HM Drunder, but can't get down the first hallway because heals are not critting and one group of trash mobs will take and hour to kill.</p><p>This is not going to be a good move, because it is going to lead to more demands for this and that to be removed.</p>

[Zahk]

<p>Wow.  Looks like you found another easy button.  Just how many more drastic changes are going to be implemented in the next month or 2?  Sure plenty of people will cheer this decision and rush to the zones they didn't have the crit mit for before now... and then complain it's still to hard and beg for more nerfs... Kinda ruins the whole sense of accomplishment for getting through something that was a challenge.  Honestly, it's not even the same game it was a few months ago anymore.  Some of us do actually like a challenge, at least it means something when you finally beat it.</p><p>Sorry to be critical, I agree crit mit is a pain, but for something that we've had to work with for so long to be suddenly just taken out of the picture, that's pretty drastic.  I suppose the next step will be removing critical avoidance too?  I shouldn't be surprised at this... but I am.</p>

[Oadin]

<p> bah this means i wont die as much now <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>will have to find other ways to die in raids <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Loric]

<p>How soon is soon? Should I not bother wearing or adorning any new raid armour I get because I'll be wasting cash and shards on cm adorns?</p><p>Or is this the same soon as in 'EQ2players site coming soon'? If so then it will be a few months so I can carry on buying cm adorns for now.</p>

[Vixey]

<p>I don't want more hit points if i did I would have done so. Put an npc to give us our money and shards back for our crit mit adorns or change them all to crit bonus adorns.</p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>Iskandar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Basically, it means that crit mit requirements will no longer be a barrier to casual players for accessing the Kael or Drunder instances -- which will be more heroic choices for your 3-man/3-merc group.<strong> It also means that raids will have a much easier time of gearing up new members who begin with heroic/crafted gear -<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">- no more farming EM!</span></span> </strong><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I'm glad I checked the forums today -- my "to do" list for today included buying 7 crit mit adorns for a new Warden alt! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>See, and this guy will be one of the first ones asking why they can't do HM drunder in the Ry'Gorr gear.</p>

[Xenxex]

<p>Confused a bit,...so mobs can crit us again?</p>

[Rageincarnate]

<p><cite>Coniaric wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>wait a sec :/   the crit mit values on gear current gear?  what are you doing with that? </p><p>I'm thinking let us reforge them ourselves.. just open reforging a little more to have more options.</p><p>I don't think i'll be happy long if i see my crit mit changed to wisdom or something crazy on my fighter bp.</p></blockquote><p>Reread the post again.</p><li><em>Critical Mitigation values on adornments will be replaced with hit point values instead.</em></li><p>I don't think you'll need to worry about having wisdom showing up on your fighter gear, or anything else, at this point.</p></blockquote><p>that .. says.. adorns.. what about the natural crit mit values .. on gear..  /yikes..</p>

[Errrorr]

<p>How is this going to work in regards to raid mobs.</p><p>Does this mean all the guilds that didnt have the CM for Drunder HM, are now going to be able to sweep through and clear it all in a week, when some guilds have spent months working against broken mobs.</p><p>Or does this mean you are going to boost a load of mobs damage, making all content broken, and set back lots of guilds once again.</p><p>I liked Crit Mit personally. It gave me something to aim for, something to ask for when I wanted to know what kind of player I was getting in a group.</p><p>Remove Crit mit from Group situations, and Easy Mode raiding, but not Hardmode Raiding. Or is this just your solution, instead of fixing broken mobs in Drunder, you will just make it so everyone and their dog can now clear the zone?</p>

[Wolfsbaine]

<p>I think that is great. I didnt mind having CM in the game. I liked it better in SF when it was only needed for HM content. I think it should have been left in for Challenge Mode. The same for instances too. I would like to see Critical Debilitation changed so that it gives us another stat. Maybe 5% MA per rank. I would like 10 or 20% but I dont want to sound too greedy. I know some wardens prefer spell damage and some like melee</p>

[Ge'Sar]

<p>Only what, two and a half years to realize what the long time players told them on day one of this horrible idea!  SOE is improving, only.....</p><p>*looks around* where are the long time players now? </p>

[Sarriss]

<p>And what does this mean for Crit, if mobs nolonger have critmit, then I no longer need 300 crit chance. This also makes 2 bard AAs compleatly useless in the current standing and SEVERAL SF pieces will be the best over DoV EM pieces (scout hat with it's 52 MA). Unless crit will do something else over 100.</p><p>If you have thought this over then, I'ed like to throw my voice in for getting the shards back, ot CM adorns being turned into somthing usefule like Crit bonus.</p>

[Wirewhisker]

<p>On behalf of my scouts, I'd like those CM adorns refunded in equivalent MA adorns, thanks.</p><p>Also,</p><p><strong>[9:48AM] You tell Level_80-89 (3), "DING, DONG, THE CRIT-MIT IS DEAD."</strong></p>

[Mystfit]

<p><cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Mystfit wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm curious, How will this affect *the little guy*. As in, non-radier, non-mega geared person. We are basically trolling in the easier beginning DOV instances, but mostly because we want to run 3 people, 3 mercs and scripting is too heavy in many zones to not have 6 real people and not, I assume, because of crit mit. Will we see any progression in our eq2 experience. I'd love it, we've felt so down-trodden for so long, but am not clear enough on crit mit to know it it affected our progression.</p></blockquote><p>If you want to run 3 people and 3 mercs then run easy zones, I don't see the point here beyond you saying "Make the zones easy enough so we can do it with 3 people and 3 mercs, because we don't want to run with 6 people we want the extra gear that the mercs do not take any part of."</p></blockquote><p>You might notice, Lempo, I didn't ASK for those zones to be made easier, i ASKED if these changes might reflect in the type of EQw I find myself doing. Totally different <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And if they want some gear, they're welcome to it, I mean the odds are I'm not running that class anyway, since i brought them  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Brildean]

<p>are they changing all base crit bonus's to 1.0 instead of the 1.3 or 1.5 that mobs have.. if not then they will problaby have to lower mob potency so tanks arent getting one shot by there rediculous range of ae's that are 80k to 130k non crits.  Since these ae's were balanced around most tanks not getting crit.</p><p>This doens't make the game easier it just makes EM and HM zones even dumber..  Why raid HM when you can get EM set that has only .4 less potency/cb..  Sure Crit Chance will be an issue but look at all these red slots that opened up.</p>

[Lader]

<p>i like it bc we dont have to go back to old content to gear up a recruit, they can start raiding with us when they join. Also, this may hopefully bring back more fun encounters like t5, kos, and eof raiding were.</p><p>im not a fan of everyone walking into HM drunder and killing it the first day, since the encounters are so similar to the EM versions.</p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>Mystfit wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Mystfit wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm curious, How will this affect *the little guy*. As in, non-radier, non-mega geared person. We are basically trolling in the easier beginning DOV instances, but mostly because we want to run 3 people, 3 mercs and scripting is too heavy in many zones to not have 6 real people and not, I assume, because of crit mit. Will we see any progression in our eq2 experience. I'd love it, we've felt so down-trodden for so long, but am not clear enough on crit mit to know it it affected our progression.</p></blockquote><p>If you want to run 3 people and 3 mercs then run easy zones, I don't see the point here beyond you saying "Make the zones easy enough so we can do it with 3 people and 3 mercs, because we don't want to run with 6 people we want the extra gear that the mercs do not take any part of."</p></blockquote><p>You might notice, Lempo, I didn't ASK for those zones to be made easier, i ASKED if these changes might reflect in the type of EQw I find myself doing. Totally different <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> And if they want some gear, they're welcome to it, I mean the odds are I'm not running that class anyway, since i brought them  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Well to answer the last part of your question CM has had absolutely no impact on <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">your</span></strong> umm 'progression' for some time now.</p>

[Jaxl]

<p><cite>Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Coniaric wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>wait a sec :/   the crit mit values on gear current gear?  what are you doing with that? </p><p>I'm thinking let us reforge them ourselves.. just open reforging a little more to have more options.</p><p>I don't think i'll be happy long if i see my crit mit changed to wisdom or something crazy on my fighter bp.</p></blockquote><p>Reread the post again.</p><li><em>Critical Mitigation values on adornments will be replaced with hit point values instead.</em></li><p>I don't think you'll need to worry about having wisdom showing up on your fighter gear, or anything else, at this point.</p></blockquote><p>that .. says.. adorns.. what about the natural crit mit values .. on gear..  /yikes..</p></blockquote><p>Its not like the crit mit on the gear was helping you for anything but crit mit.. And most of the gear with crit mit, had the rest of the stats to match the magnitude of the crit mit - its not as if it was a stat that was balanced as a tradeoff for cc or ma.. It was pretty much there as a statement that you've put it work...</p>

[Anklesteiner]

<p>Congradulations smokejumper. You've officially ruined EverQuest 2 completely.</p>

[Iskandar]

<p><cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Iskandar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Basically, it means that crit mit requirements will no longer be a barrier to casual players for accessing the Kael or Drunder instances -- which will be more heroic choices for your 3-man/3-merc group.<strong> It also means that raids will have a much easier time of gearing up new members who begin with heroic/crafted gear -<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">- no more farming EM!</span></span> </strong><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I'm glad I checked the forums today -- my "to do" list for today included buying 7 crit mit adorns for a new Warden alt! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>See, and this guy will be one of the first ones asking why they can't do HM drunder in the Ry'Gorr gear.</p></blockquote><p>Actually, we do HM Drunder in HM Kael gear <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Vinyard]

<p>Friendjumper. Making EQ2 fun again since 2012</p>

[DasUberFuzzy]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><ul><li>Critical Mitigation values on adornments will be replaced with hit point values instead.</li></ul></blockquote><p>Please, PLEASE make these have a worthwhile ammount of HP.</p><p>Even as a mage, I am well north of 30k, with no special tuning for higher STA/HP. The T9 white HP adorns are beyond useless (what is 200 HP when added to 30k?).</p><p>The current red HP adorn is what, 1000? That is at least on the right track.</p><p>The whites should be 500. The yellow 800, and the red 1200.</p>

[Notask]

<p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We’ve listened to all of your conversations since Critical Mitigation was originally introduced. The dev team has extensively debated about it internally. (Very extensively.) But ultimately, we decided that the right move for EQII is to remove Critical Mitigation entirely from the game. Critical Mitigation initially seemed to do what it was designed for, but it has always suffered from a complete lack of intuitiveness for players, and it’s not a forward-extensible system. Ultimately, it doesn’t add any fun factor to the game.  So we’ve decided that a complete removal of it is by far the best solution for all concerned. Here are the details:</p><ul><li>Critical Mitigation (the stat) has been removed from the game.</li><li>Critical Mitigation no longer displays on the Character pane (for obvious reasons, since it’s no longer in the game).</li><li>NPCs no longer use Critical Bonus to add to critical damage.</li><li>Buffs and debuffs that have Critical Mitigation elements to them will have those elements replaced with other elements instead, so that those buffs/debuffs do not lose effectiveness.</li><li>Critical Mitigation values on adornments will be replaced with hit point values instead.</li></ul><p> This change will be coming to Test soon and then to the regular servers soon thereafter. NOTE: This change has no effect on PvP game play. The “PvP Critical Mitigation” stat is still useful for game balance in PvP play and is not being changed.</p></blockquote><p>I think that removing Critical Mitigation is a great idea. </p><p>Can we also see something on test about Striketrough Vs. Plate tanks? I play a Defiler as a healer and Plate tanks seem to lack defensive abilities compared to Brawlers. Let me rephrase, "Plate tanks suck compared to Brawlers." Plate tanks take huge spike damage while Brawlers seem to stay standing strong. I can solo heal a Brawler though just about any zone including most raid zones. When I get a plate tank I seem to have more of an issue. </p>

[Havokjoe]

<p>I can see the issue here on both ends. Sad thing id CM became the "endall" stat for grouping. There should be other stat to measure your ability to perform in a said zone for sure.  Easiest stat for tanks would be mitagation/avoidance wher as DpS healers should go with critchance. Mob's crit avoidance will still be in game it seems so you will need the higher CC like now to attack the mobs. This is a good thing in theory because when you adorn all your gear with CM gems you gain what 35% CM? Take a smoe in Rygorr gear and add 35% hes easily at the 150 mark if my math is right. However his other stats ( mit, CC, MA, etc etc are) still below the recommended amount for the next level tier dungeons cause he/she ble up his CM just to get groups. Here is another picture for you all.</p><p>    ToFS x2 raid need a certian CM value (140) at the base right? If you have a raid of 12 peeps in Rygorr all with CM adorns to the max, according to the Crit Mit police, have the stat to do the zone, but reality do you think they can mow down tserrina with that gear?</p>

[Jaxl]

<p><cite>Brildean wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>are they changing all base crit bonus's to 1.0 instead of the 1.3 or 1.5 that mobs have.. if not then they will problaby have to lower mob potency so tanks arent getting one shot by there rediculous range of ae's that are 80k to 130k non crits.  Since these ae's were balanced around most tanks not getting crit.</p><p>This doens't make the game easier it just makes EM and HM zones even dumber..  Why raid HM when you can get EM set that has only .4 less potency/cb..  Sure Crit Chance will be an issue but look at all these red slots that opened up.</p></blockquote><p>I wonder if they'll just do it the fast-and-dirty way and not remove the stat from scripts/code/etc but instead just internally have everyone's crit mit at, say, 1000...</p>

[Barx]

<p>The only thing that wasn't intuitive about crit mit was the fact that crit BONUS was never made intuitive for people. That was solved for heroic by listing the total (innate+buffed) CB for mobs on heroic content but it was never done for raids. Even then, people had long since figured out what the innate amounts were and it was just this hidden +50 CM you'd need over the displayed CB.</p><p>Crit mit was a prime factor in raid progression: if you didn't have it, you'd simply get blasted and that was that. What's going to be the determining factor now... just raw HP, with AEs being increased in base damage to approximate the increased hp from former CM adorns?</p>

[Brildean]

<p>Also might as well get rid of the class debuff mechanic.... and have Wisdom actually affect Healers HEALS..</p>

[Xenxex]

<p>Why even have EM and HM zones? Can just fully HP adorn now and go str8 into HM zones? What factor will determine how often you're crit now or will it now have a new buff on mob saying he has a 45% chance to crit?</p>

[Nekurawr]

<p><cite>Sarriss@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And what does this mean for Crit, if mobs nolonger have critmit, then I no longer need 300 crit chance. This also makes 2 bard AAs compleatly useless in the current standing and SEVERAL SF pieces will be the best over DoV EM pieces (scout hat with it's 52 MA). Unless crit will do something else over 100.</p></blockquote><p>Why do you no longer need 300 crit chance? Mobs have critical bonus and critical avoidance; critical avoidance is what contests critical chance and is not being removed.</p>

[Iskandar]

<p><cite>Lader wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i like it bc we dont have to go back to old content to gear up a recruit, they can start raiding with us when they join. Also, this may hopefully bring back more fun encounters like t5, kos, and eof raiding were.</p><p>im not a fan of everyone walking into HM drunder and killing it the first day, since the encounters are so similar to the EM versions.</p></blockquote><p>That's my thoughts as well. Once a raid is geared up, crit mit is pretty much a moot point -- it's just a stat that we don't have to worry about once we have enough of it. But drop in a few new raiders, and we suddenly have to spend the next six weeks farming EM content hoping for the right drops so the recruits don't just give the names in a regular raid a steady source of heals. And unfortunately, that's not terribly exciting to most folks <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Shotneedle]

<p>I guess this is a good time to take a month or three break while raid content is retuned so all the currently killable content is killable again.</p><p>What are we going to need instead of 290 crit mit for hm drunder? 90k hp?</p>

[Mogrim]

<p>What Buffrat said.We also need to make sure that Raid gear is improved enough to still provide a significant advantage.I need to say this as well.I don't care about you lowbies who haven't worked hard enough to get into the zones I've worked to get in. If you don't have enough gear to do more content, work as hard as the other people have who ARE in the content you want to be in.</p>

[Zahk]

<p><cite>Nekurawr@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sarriss@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And what does this mean for Crit, if mobs nolonger have critmit, then I no longer need 300 crit chance. This also makes 2 bard AAs compleatly useless in the current standing and SEVERAL SF pieces will be the best over DoV EM pieces (scout hat with it's 52 MA). Unless crit will do something else over 100.</p></blockquote><p>Why do you no longer need 300 crit chance? Mobs have critical bonus and critical avoidance; critical avoidance is what contests critical chance and is not being removed.</p></blockquote><p>Yet.</p>

[Rageincarnate]

<p><cite>Xenxex@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Why even have EM and HM zones? Can just fully HP adorn now and go str8 into HM zones? What factor will determine how often you're crit now or will it now have a new buff on mob saying he has a 45% chance to crit?</p></blockquote><p>You want artificial roadblocks?  Go pull it and find out.</p>

[Iren]

<p>whats going to happen to wardens 15% crit mit buff from expertise?</p>

[Notask]

<p>Yea, I do see an issue with removing critical mitigation. We are going to have players with 15k HP just hitting level 90 trying to join these raids or groups. With the crit mit standard we can at least say, "you are not ready for this." What is going to be the next standard of player classification, "Hit Points and AA?"</p>

[Brildean]

<p><cite>Repel@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yea, I do see an issue with removing critical mitigation. We are going to have players with 15k HP just hitting level 90 trying to join these raids or groups. With the crit mit standard we can at least say, "you are not ready for this." What is going to be the next standard of player classification, "Hit Points and AA?"</p></blockquote><p>Introduction of Gear Score.. ????</p>

[Lader]

<p>i will be interested in seeing how they...i wanted to say throttle progression, but its more test a guild's ability at killing a mob. waking up one day to see the entire roster of HM mobs dead will be sad <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Dorsan]

I have one concern about this. Currently critical mitigation is a shared stat between pets and pet classes. Health is not. Once critical mitigation is removed from the game pets will become extremely squishy and it will hit all pet classes hard. Please put the health values as shared stats for pet classes so that we don't have to reroll to another class. Thank you.

[Wirewhisker]

<p><cite>Mogrim wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What Buffrat said.We also need to make sure that Raid gear is improved enough to still provide a significant advantage.I need to say this as well.I don't care about you lowbies who haven't worked hard enough to get into the zones I've worked to get in. If you don't have enough gear to do more content, work as hard as the other people have who ARE in the content you want to be in.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, put in that 40 hours of plat grinding a week so you can get that SLR gear, lowbies!!</p>

[Rageincarnate]

<p>i'm kind of wowed.. People can't figure out if people are good without a crit mit number?  286 myself.. so i'm good</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>Buffrat@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I guess this is a good time to take a month or three break while raid content is retuned so all the currently killable content is killable again.</p><p>What are we going to need instead of 290 crit mit for hm drunder? 90k hp?</p></blockquote><p>Yep, they will pigeon hole us back with having to get all crit mit adorns for the hp increases we will need to survive the aoes.</p>

[Brildean]

<p>Would also be nice if you could out right resist an ae. once in a while..</p>

[Friggles]

<p>So my Crit mit adornments will be replaced with a hipoint adornment. That sucks. What a waste of shards. Maybe remove the yellow adornments and give us our shards back so we can buy something more suitable.</p>

[Anklesteiner]

<p>Crit Mit was a mechanic that actually challenged players to move forward through the games content as a team. The past few years, Crit Mit has been heavily inclusive into the content of EQ2, and now...they're going to remove it? Do you honestly believe with such a massive change to the game that Sony is going to do it flawlessly? How long has it been since raid mobs have been double casting AOE's without a fix? 5 months? Something as game changing as Crit Mit removal is going to create a plethora of problems because of Sony's inability to actually do anything properly. You have to remember how important of a stat Crit Mit was, and how all content from the past 3 years has been heavily designed around it. But whatever. I hate the change for various reasons, and the casual players will love it. The funny thing is for casual players, as EQ2 gets more and more easy for them, they will still find things to complain about, and still suck at everything. I'd imagine that Critical Avoidance is the next stat to be removed.</p>

[CoLD MeTaL]

<p>They should 'pop off' all crit mit adorns and give us back the shards for them.</p>

[Meare]

<p>Here is an idea, take the amount of adornment (7% for red, 5% for yellow) and slap those directly onto the gear and remove the crit mit adorn. Then give an adornment reset and change all current crit mit adornments to tokens for 1 free armor adornment for each removed crit mit adornment "taken"</p>

[Khiah]

<p>Removed and replaced with hp? Seriously just replacing one bad idea with another.  The game seems to be more and more wowafied, no thinking at all more and more. I liked the old idea of all stats agil, wis, stam etc doing something for all classes we had to actually look at gear and decide what we needed or wanted and could make each class more different. Was really bummed when that was simplified. Didnt really like the whole idea of needing cm on every adorn slot, again not much thinking there just slap cm on every adorn slot and your gtg. Remove cm and just replace it w hp? So now instead of having a goal of cm to get to the next zone just a goal of 100k hp? bah.. whatever. Give some more thought into this please.. Either not removing it all together or offering a better replacement. And like wardens who have a cm buff you gonna replace that w hp too? Come on eq2 stood out on its ability to make each class different and some thought process went into classes and abilities.. if I wanted simplicity I would play WoW or some other boring game.. please give this a bit more thought into what replaces it.</p>

[Addomortis]

<p>do we get our shards and plat back from buying CM adorns? (wishful thinking)</p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Madie wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Why not refund the plat/shards that was spent on CM adorns...  I'd be less inclined to put HP adorns on my healer then I was CM... sooooo If I could kindly just get my raid shards and plat back to pick what I want? Thank you </p></blockquote><p>We'll probably be required to have those stupid amounts of HP to survive bosses.</p>

[Bratface]

<p><cite>Mogrim wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I need to say this as well.I don't care about you lowbies who haven't worked hard enough to get into the zones I've worked to get in. If you don't have enough gear to do more content, work as hard as the other people have who ARE in the content you want to be in.</p></blockquote><p>You know I don't even raid any more and I think this really sucks for all of you raiders who worked so hard to get geared up for zones, what is all that work for when they turn around and remove it totally, what stat will is next to be removed after people have worked hard to aquire it?</p><p>Critmit means nothing to me because I don't play that part of the game, but others do and this is a kick in the you-know-what for them.</p><p>PS. I want a refund or a choice in how the CM adorns and gear I do have is changed, not just a blanket change to HP.</p><p>Oh and Mogrim wtb spoon!</p>

[Anklesteiner]

<p>This is also a major slap to the face to all raiders who have put in a tremendous amount of time, work, and effort over the past year.</p>

[Xenxex]

<p>Temp +20k hp potions will appear on market place just in time for this change..cha-ching!</p>

[Rageincarnate]

<p>i would put money on.. they are designing loot for the new raid/heroic zones.. and have no where to go with the crit mit stat.</p>

[Dart56]

The reason we raid hard mode content is because it is, well, hard. How about we keep the challenge for hard mode content and require crit mit in those zones, and remove it from all easy mode zones, but keep the values on gear? This way we keep all the people who don't understand mechanics of real raid zones out of them, but still give them content to raid.

[Kuulei]

<p><cite>Friggles wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So my Crit mit adornments will be replaced with a hipoint adornment. That sucks. What a waste of shards. Maybe remove the yellow adornments and give us our shards back so we can buy something more suitable.</p></blockquote><p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Please</span></strong>.  <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Let us choose what we want to replace our current choice of adornment</span>!</strong></p><p>We put Crit Mit on there because it was needed.  With the removal of Crit Mit, maybe we want Crit Chance, Potency, or whatever is currently available.  A return of the currency used to purchase them or an NPC who can "exchange" any critical mitigation adornment for any choice that is currently allowed.  To delegate it to health / hitpoints because its 'easier' on the dev's is not fair to the players.</p>

[LadyEdderkopp]

<p>The whole "I want my money back" thinking for crit mit adorns is a bit .. strange.</p><p>It's going to be changed into hp, you got crit mit to live now you will need hp instead so why would you change it? Is this to ensure you always have to have a shaman in your group?</p><p>I'd like some more info on this, is mob crit hit going to be removed completely or are the crit amount going to be decreased?</p><p>I think it's a bad idea, especially since my tank, a berserker, have no unique way of increasing it's hp.. No buffs, no AA's, nothing. And now crit mit is removed, the one thing my zerker could actually get <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>It will be fun to see how this effect non-warding classes, a boost of hp should be good for them. More info and some clarification please.</p>

[luinnil]

<p>As a raid leader working on moving through Hard Mode who is tired of there being adornment spots on gear if the requirement is they all have to be crit mit anyway, all I can say is 'finally'.</p><p>I am however mildly nervous about whether the change will be made without instead requiring all those crit mit adorns to just stay as the HP ones they turn into.</p><p>I don't give a crap if people can suddenly kill a few mobs they couldn't, but I highly doubt people are just going to be steamrolling content as most of it is about much more than whether you have the magic crit mit number.  People with crap gear are still going to die all over the place since 30k hp isn't enough to survive AEs, and sometimes the 65k I have as a plate healer with ambrosial stuff isn't enough either.</p><p>There should be actual choice in yellow/red slot adornments and right now there simply is not.  For that reason alone this is a good change.</p>

[Shotneedle]

<p><cite>Lader wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i will be interested in seeing how they...i wanted to say throttle progression, but its more test a guild's ability at killing a mob. waking up one day to see the entire roster of HM mobs dead will be sad <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>HM mobs are not killed because guilds are bad, not because they don't have the crit mit.</p><p>This really won't change much in terms of progression.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Callur@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There should be actual choice in yellow/red slot adornments and right now there simply is not.  For that reason alone this is a good change.</p></blockquote><p>There is choice. When you're first breaking into content with the lowest gear possible, you need all those crit mit adorns. As you gear up you need them less until you start breaking into the next level of content.</p><p>By the looks of it, all they're going to do is change it so that you need that HP instead. Only since the hp gained with gear is miniscule, you'll probably have LESS choice now with having to run hp adorns.</p>

[Brildean]

<p>They arn't killed cause it requires having a roster of 24 people that know ins and outs of there class.. and those of which have to like to beat there head against a spiked wall for countless hours waiting for the perfect pull where everythign goes in favor and no one dies below 50%.. ? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> There isn't many people left that will fit into that.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i would put money on.. they are designing loot for the new raid/heroic zones.. and have no where to go with the crit mit stat.</p></blockquote><p>We need Refunds for these please.</p>

[Tempted]

<p>I am starting to think you guys may be panic or yelling for nothing. This is how I see it.</p><p>If you are a raider and already immune to crit via having enough crit mit this change will not effect how you do encounters at all. You will still get hit for the same amount as before just you wont need the crit mit.</p><p>Those same raiders are now free to custom thier own gear with whatever adorns they want.</p><p>For lesser geared raiders they will be able to do content thier raid force no longer had the crit mit for, it will still be hard for them because they have less gear less hp less dps ect. But thier raid will no longer be one shot by the first aoe critting on them.</p><p>The mobs are not being adjusted save for the crit bonus removed from them. So as far as this change, its equal to just having max crit mit value for every single mob nothing more nothing less.</p>

[Laenai]

<p>What I want to know is:</p><p>What mechanic will SoE use to keep a PUG raid of Ry'Gorr wearers out of Drunder HM?</p><p>If crit mit is being removed, what mechanic will replace it? If its just more HP required by the crit mit adorns you're replacing, you might as well just keep crit mit in.</p><p>A compromise of it not being removed *entirely,* but a requirement only for HM zones with it still dropping on EM+ gear and available as adornments would be preferred.</p>

[Notask]

<p>This is going to be all screwed up if not done right...Like a fellow Eq2 players said to me today. It will either make or break the game.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i would put money on.. they are designing loot for the new raid/heroic zones.. and have no where to go with the crit mit stat.</p></blockquote><p>Nah, I think its just cause they finally realized its not fun, and the threads around here about how painful the gearing of recruits is was the catalyst to get something done about it.</p>

[Tempted]

<p><cite>Laenai@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What I want to know is:</p><p>What mechanic will SoE use to keep a PUG raid of Ry'Gorr wearers out of Drunder HM?</p><p>If crit mit is being removed, what mechanic will replace it? If its just more HP required by the crit mit adorns you're replacing, you might as well just keep crit mit in.</p><p>A compromise of it not being removed *entirely,* but a requirement only for HM zones with it still dropping on EM+ gear and available as adornments would be preferred.</p></blockquote><p>Thier will be no false mechanic. People in that type of gear still wont be able to do the raids due to needed higher heals per second, dmg per second and tanks geared enough to take the hits.</p><p>Now a solid raid force could now recruit a rygorr person gear them some so they have some crit chance and make them stand max range now. That way the whole raid force does not need to farm EM and some HM for 2 weeks gearing them up.</p><p>But as far as PuG the standered mob mechanics and strats will take care of that. I think that hard core raider need not freak out thinking "thier" zones will be overrun by scubs setting up camp and pitching tents.</p>

[Vlahkmaak]

<p>Please define "soon" so we can maximize our scheduling.</p>

[LadyEdderkopp]

<p><cite>Tempted wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am starting to think you guys may be panic or yelling for nothing. This is how I see it.</p><p>If you are a raider and already immune to crit via having enough crit mit this change will not effect how you do encounters at all. You will still get hit for the same amount as before just you wont need the crit mit.</p><p>Those same raiders are now free to custom thier own gear with whatever adorns they want.</p><p>For lesser geared raiders they will be able to do content thier raid force no longer had the crit mit for, it will still be hard for them because they have less gear less hp less dps ect. But thier raid will no longer be one shot by the first aoe critting on them.</p><p>The mobs are not being adjusted save for the crit bonus removed from them. So as far as this change, its equal to just having max crit mit value for every single mob nothing more nothing less.</p></blockquote><p>That's part of the problem, in one of my raidingguilds we are now at a "gear up phase" because we don't have the collective crit mit to get the next mob in our progressionlist down, this will no longer be a issue. Classes with a lot of innate hp will be able to do content with a lot less gear.</p><p>People with not enough hp for a zone just needs a shaman to ward that extra 10k or so to prevent a oneshot.</p><p>This will completely turn the whole current raid progression upside down.</p>

[screenid]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i would put money on.. they are designing loot for the new raid/heroic zones.. and have no where to go with the crit mit stat.</p></blockquote><p>Nah, I think its just cause they finally realized its not fun, and the threads around here about how painful the gearing of recruits is was the catalyst to get something done about it.</p></blockquote><p>^^^ so so true ^^^</p>

[kahonen]

<p><cite>Laenai@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What I want to know is:</p><p>What mechanic will SoE use to keep a PUG raid of Ry'Gorr wearers out of Drunder HM?</p><p>If crit mit is being removed, what mechanic will replace it? If its just more HP required by the crit mit adorns you're replacing, you might as well just keep crit mit in.</p><p>A compromise of it not being removed *entirely,* but a requirement only for HM zones with it still dropping on EM+ gear and available as adornments would be preferred.</p></blockquote><p>They're not gonna need a mechanism.  Once the wingers and whiners realise how hard these zones are, even without needing crit mit, they'll not go back and just wait for the next round of the nerf bat.</p><p>It's time for them to find out once and for all that it's not just crit mit that has kept them from progressing and kept them out of HM zones.  Now they'll get a chance to realise just how much more there is to these zones and that they do actually need to understand their class and how it works.</p><p>Wait and see, a week after the patch they'll be back here crying it's too hard and why do the mobs hit so hard.</p>

[Xzerius]

<p>The heck with health increases for existing CM adorns.  Give us our shards back !!!!!  I would have bought something far better for adorns in the first place and long ago if CM wasn't such the huge neccessity.  I certainly wouldnt have wasted plat and shards on hit point boosts.   Remove our old adorns and allow us to sell them back so we can buy something more worthwhile ! ! ! !</p>

[Ghlom]

<p>I understand you are trying to please the most people when you make changes.</p><p>I understand you are in business to make money.</p><p>but, like SWG before, it seems you are trying to please the most people who complain.</p><p>The silent masses who are happy with the game, who never back down from a challenge and who keep returning to play regardless of what you change are getting unhappy. We are here for the challenge, not to kill time killing x number of mobs and have our gear modified beyond recognition in the interest of "fairness" to those unable to cope with challenges. If people cant develope the skills to play the game "as is" dont dumb down the game, educate the whiners.</p><p>If I could I would rewind the game back to when crafting was a special skill, that only dedicated players pursued. I would give back all the little oddities that made each character distinct, like SK's needing intelligence because they are spell casters. Sure, we have adapted to what you have done to the game, but the less challenging it becomes the less I and others like me are entertained by it.</p><p>When you take away Crit Mit, and you will, I hope you have something in mind for the "new" mechanics that will result. Whatever it is, I think changing all our Crit Mit adornments to health adornments is a bad idea. remove them and return us the items to replace them with new adornments of our choice.</p>

[Jasminia]

<p>Can we get gear unattuned and unadorned to swap things around accordingly?</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>kahonen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Laenai@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What mechanic will SoE use to keep a PUG raid of Ry'Gorr wearers out of Drunder HM?</p></blockquote><p>It's time for them to find out once and for all that it's not just crit mit that has kept them from progressing and kept them out of HM zones.  Now they'll get a chance to realise just how much more there is to these zones and that they do actually need to understand their class and how it works.</p></blockquote><p>Bingo!</p><p>This is very true, but on the same token, I know my own guilds progress has been greatly hampered by the time required to gear recruits, etc.</p><p>With skill returning to the primary factor in progression, I'm confident we'll get more stuff dead.</p>

[Laenai]

<p><cite>kahonen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Laenai@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What I want to know is:</p><p>What mechanic will SoE use to keep a PUG raid of Ry'Gorr wearers out of Drunder HM?</p><p>If crit mit is being removed, what mechanic will replace it? If its just more HP required by the crit mit adorns you're replacing, you might as well just keep crit mit in.</p><p>A compromise of it not being removed *entirely,* but a requirement only for HM zones with it still dropping on EM+ gear and available as adornments would be preferred.</p></blockquote><p>They're not gonna need a mechanism.  Once the wingers and whiners realise how hard these zones are, even without needing crit mit, they'll not go back and just wait for the next round of the nerf bat.</p><p>It's time for them to find out once and for all that it's not just crit mit that has kept them from progressing and kept them out of HM zones.  Now they'll get a chance to realise just how much more there is to these zones and that they do actually need to understand their class and how it works.</p></blockquote><p>I hope you're right =/ I'm not sure they could nerf Drunder any more than they already have except to have every mob lay down and die upon zone in so we can loot chests.</p><p>I can totally see this for heroic zones and maybe even EM raids, but HM raids? It gets a little sticky.</p><p>And after the reitmization debacle just a few months ago, I'm not sure I want them to touch my gear again............</p>

[resiler]

<p>Whine whine (two-thirds of the posts I've seen here).  Go cry hardmode tears.  The implication of the removal of crit mit is that we can now put other adorns in those slots, not that anything will change in raids.  The admittedly optimistic view is that, for a raid that fully meets the crit mit barrier, their experience will be exactly the same after it's removed.  Can't kill the mob now because there are too many simians failing a coordination or DPS check and not enough sophisticates?  You'll keep failing to take it down.  Got an app, take him/her somwhere and see what they can do with what they have rather than 1) "Oh, you weren't a raider BEFORE, so you don't don't have enough of one stat.  Next!" or 2) "Ok, let's get the noob geared up so he has enough gear and shards to have enough of one stat."  That's a bigger recruiting pool and faster induction of new raiders (who demonstrate an ability to listen and think, not just bang their head on the keyboard)Casuals, or average raiders for that matter, aren't being invited to waltz into HM and pick up free loot, we're just seeing the removal of a boring, mechanical throttle.  I worked my tail off to get 260% and I'm happy with my main, but I'm going to jump like a trained pig on OTHER adorns (unless the HP boost is outstanding).  OTHER!  Not-CM.  Weird...</p>

[Felshades]

<p>You're still going to need a certain amount of crit chance to kill things.</p><p>And you know what else? I wouldn't be surprised if they remove colored slots entirely.</p><p>They already don't have them on say, EoW weapons. They've said they dislike the War Rune mechanic.</p><p>They're probably going to phase out red/yellow adornments entirely.</p>

[Irgun]

<p>As long as players with crap gear get oneshotted trying to raid content they dont have the stats for, I agree its a good change</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Within 2 weeks of this going live the board is going to be flooded with demands that the mobs not have crit avoidance because people will think that they have business in HM Drunder, but can't get down the first hallway because heals are not critting and one group of trash mobs will take and hour to kill.</p><p>This is not going to be a good move, because it is going to lead to more demands for this and that to be removed.</p></blockquote><p>Crit avoidance should be removed.  I'm kinda surprised they aren't announcing that they're removing it here, considering the similarities to crit mit. </p><p>It is kinda funny how we told them crit avoidance was redundant with crit mit in DoV beta, and now they're keeping crit avoidance but removing crit mit.</p>

[Tempted]

<p><cite>Jasminia@Blackburrow wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Can we get gear unattuned and unadorned to swap things around accordingly?</p></blockquote><p>this plz</p>

[Notask]

<p><cite>Meridia@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You're still going to need a certain amount of crit chance to kill things.<span style="white-space: pre;"> </span></p><p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">Speaking of Crit Mit...Whats the point of having over 100% crit chance if Crit mit is going to be removed? OR is the crit avoidance still going to count for mobs?</span></strong></p></blockquote>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Within 2 weeks of this going live the board is going to be flooded with demands that the mobs not have crit avoidance because people will think that they have business in HM Drunder, but can't get down the first hallway because heals are not critting and one group of trash mobs will take and hour to kill.</p><p>This is not going to be a good move, because it is going to lead to more demands for this and that to be removed.</p></blockquote><p>Crit avoidance should be removed.  I'm kinda surprised they aren't announcing that they're removing it here, considering the similarities to crit mit. </p><p>It is kinda funny how we told them crit avoidance was redundant with crit mit in DoV beta, and now they're keeping crit avoidance but removing crit mit.</p></blockquote><p>So what would we do with that extraneous crit chance that's on gear? Outside adorns, I have a metric buttload of crit chance. Critical avoidance is what requires you to have a certain level of critical strike chance.</p><p>They're not getting rid of it.</p>

[Silius]

<p>Just to clarify some confusion.</p><ul><li>Crit mit as a mechanic is being removed. </li><li>NPC crit bonus was countered by crit mit and we are reducing crit bonus to 0 across the board. </li><li>Critical avoidance is staying around. Critical avoidance is an NPCs way of contesting your chance to critically hit them. </li><li>Replacing the adornments with HP is not to compensate for anything. Since the critical mitgiation stat is no longer useful we are converting to a stat that benefits all players.</li><li>The goal is for this change to not change the difficulty of the encounters. This is why we ask that you all take some time to log on to test once we push it there. We plan on having this on test by the weekend.</li></ul><p>Note: NPC crit bonus may be used in the future on a case by case bases and will be considered in the balance of the encounter so that crit mit is not required.</p><p>If you have any questions please do not hesitate to PM me.</p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Repel@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meridia@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You're still going to need a certain amount of crit chance to kill things.<span style="white-space: pre;"> </span></p><p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">Speaking of Crit Mit...Whats the point of having over 100% crit chance if Crit mit is going to be removed?</span></strong></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>Critical avoidance(the buff mobs get that requires you to have over 100% critical strike chance to crit on them 100% of the time) is not the same as critical mitigation.</p>

[Laenai]

<p><cite>Silius wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><ul><li>The goal is for this change to not change the difficulty of the encounters. This is why we ask that you all take some time to log on to test once we push it there. We plan on having this on test by the weekend.</li></ul></blockquote><p>If we all log onto Test and try it out, will y'all double dog pinky swear to read the feedback, open discussion, and tweak where necessary?</p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>Vlahkmaak@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please define "soon" so we can maximize our scheduling.</p></blockquote><p>Well last week they pushed something to test at about 6 PM and put it live the next day, I honestly think that SJ cares even less about anything that is not SC these days so I wouldn't at all be surprised to see this go live Thursday, or maybe next Tuesday, after all they really thought long and hard about it. It has to be true because of the great detail that he posted  about what will be done with buffs that do crit mit.</p><ul><li><span style="font-size: xx-small;">Buffs and debuffs that have Critical Mitigation elements to them will have those elements replaced with other elements instead, so that those buffs/debuffs do not lose effectiveness</span></li></ul><p>See they thought about this stuff so long and hard that no examples were provided here, so they will probably just slap some +295 HP  on buffs and be done with it.</p>

[Tempted]

<p><cite>Silius wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just to clarify some confusion.</p><ul><li>Crit mit as a mechanic is being removed. </li><li>NPC crit bonus was countered by crit mit and we are reducing crit bonus to 0 across the board. </li><li>Critical avoidance is staying around. Critical avoidance is an NPCs way of contesting your chance to critically hit them. </li><li>Replacing the adornments with HP is not to compensate for anything. Since the critical mitgiation stat is no longer useful we are converting to a stat that benefits all players.</li><li>The goal is for this change to not change the difficulty of the encounters. This is why we ask that you all take some time to log on to test once we push it there. We plan on having this on test by the weekend.</li></ul><p>Note: NPC crit bonus may be used in the future on a case by case bases and will be considered in the balance of the encounter so that crit mit is not required.</p><p>If you have any questions please do not hesitate to PM me.</p></blockquote><p>Let me sum that up. Stop crying, scrubs wont invade your HM land lol.</p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>Laenai@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Silius wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><ul><li>The goal is for this change to not change the difficulty of the encounters. This is why we ask that you all take some time to log on to test once we push it there. We plan on having this on test by the weekend.</li></ul></blockquote><p>If we all log onto Test and try it out, will y'all double dog pinky swear to read the feedback, open discussion, and tweak where necessary?</p></blockquote><p>What's the point, if it doesn't brun the server farm up it will go live Tuesday and get tested there like everything else.</p>

[Dart56]

Doesn't crit over 100% directly transfer into a % of CB?

[Davngr1]

<p>thank you.</p><p>   hope to see gear checks in the future be based on performance ie. dps checks and "skill checks" like VS (rok) or something along those lines that rewards focus and timing.</p>

[S_M_I_T_E]

<p><cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Within 2 weeks of this going live the board is going to be flooded with demands that the mobs not have crit avoidance because people will think that they have business in HM Drunder, but can't get down the first hallway because heals are not critting and one group of trash mobs will take and hour to kill.</p><p>This is not going to be a good move, because it is going to lead to more demands for this and that to be removed.</p></blockquote><p>Anti-crit needs to stay and it is more linear as far as fail conditions since everyone has 100% crit practically.</p><p>The game will return to more of what it was, a slippery slope of gear + script knowledge + clever usage of the combinations of abilities in your group.</p><p>Removal of CM was the right choice.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Dart56 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Doesn't crit over 100% directly transfer into a % of CB?</blockquote><p> no but there is a small CB bonus for level.   ie. the higher your level over your targets the higher your crits/hits will be.</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>Meridia@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong>So what would we do with that extraneous crit chance that's on gear?</strong> Outside adorns, I have a metric buttload of crit chance. Critical avoidance is what requires you to have a certain level of critical strike chance.</p><p>They're not getting rid of it.</p></blockquote><p>Allow it to be reforged? /shrug</p><p>It's kinda a bad idea to have this whole progression mechanic in place just to justify having gear with a lot of crit chance.</p>

[screenid]

<p>=-)  Now you need to make <strong><em>all </em></strong>stats mean something again to <em><strong>all </strong></em>classes!!  </p>

[ratbast]

<p><cite>Gravy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Sounds like a quick fix to get Plane of War opened up.</p></blockquote><p>Yep. More evidence of what <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=40&topic_id=514244�" target="_blank">I posted earlier:</a></p><p style="padding-left: 30px;">Don't think the game is broken? Ask yourself, how come nearly update post DoV included a nerf of DoV zones? Because they were broken and rather than fix them, SoE just made them a bit easier. Then a bit more easier. Then a bit more easier....</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"> </p><p>Crit Mit was a broken mechanic from the start. They tried to compensate by nerfing DoV zones from almost day 1. They got to the point where they couldn't nerf much more so they had to pull it.</p></blockquote><p>the impact of buffs/debuffs is geometric. it impacts game agressively as even small advantages are obtained.</p><p>to combat server lag, eq2 originally wanted to get rid of SF gear procs. simplifying the game mechanics is a design choice. if you dont trust the company thats fine, but you dont know everything they do about eq2, and you likely have less wisdom making decisions even if you were in-the-loop. freeing up server processing power can be a good thing. this metric (crit mit) was decided to not suit eq2s interest by the devs. my thoughts on (hp/cm/resists) vs just (hp/resists) is that pets shared stats will become more important, since hp-cm-resists is simplified into 2 stat for survival hp-resists. will their survivability scale with the simplification, will players new hp adorns impact pets? sounds like necros are about to get very happy or all pet classes are about to be sad.</p><p>my preference is for scaling content where each expansion has niche and is atleast slightly relevent at max level. DoV could have been the crit mit content you had to specialize in to conquer. atleast its still the crit chance content. maybe SF should become the CM content. if there was some other mechanic added to SF and some best-in-slot gear added to loot table, it would make t9 much more fun imo. the fact guilds can skip trakanon to master yael without skipping a beat is sad. i wanted to kill yael, never did, and likely never will, simply because scripts make pug very hard and hardmode raiders want to do current content only.</p><p>IMO "been-there-done-that" content progression has less replay value than niche. at the very least, SF should drop amazing powerleveling gear that DoV simply cant compete with.</p><p>SF for powerleveling.</p><p>TSO raids rescaled to 90 should drop gear to solo level 80 raid content like PR->trakanon.</p><p>on my server ppl run pug raids for DoV. there is no niche incentive to run other raids. maybe it gets lore dirty having reason to kill mobs that are technically already 'dead' in the lore sense, but it doesnt waste content. it also creates foundation reason to separately charge ppl for expacs, like how DoV/AoD currently is, back into SF, TSO. they are irrelevent, every day more so as powerleveling gets faster and gear gets grey 10 minutes after you attune it.</p><p>my only beef is that announcement was framed as 'past tense' (critical mitigation removed). Im glad they gave warning it was coming. Dropping game mechanic without warning it bad, i guess they just wanted to squelch anyone from thinking they could persuade smokejumper to keep CM in game.</p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>thank you.</p><p>   hope to see gear checks in the future be based on performance ie. dps checks and "skill checks" like VS (rok) or something along those lines that rewards focus and timing.</p></blockquote><p>VS wasn't a skill check.</p><p>Monitoring your power isn't a skill. It's being able to see and read a percentage on your power bar.</p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meridia@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong>So what would we do with that extraneous crit chance that's on gear?</strong> Outside adorns, I have a metric buttload of crit chance. Critical avoidance is what requires you to have a certain level of critical strike chance.</p><p>They're not getting rid of it.</p></blockquote><p>Allow it to be reforged? /shrug</p><p>It's kinda a bad idea to have this whole progression mechanic in place just to justify having gear with a lot of crit chance.</p></blockquote><p>So how do you propose they give you a gating mechanic?</p><p>Let me guess, you're one of those guys that thinks you should be able to bring the new guy in legendary gear into HM?</p>

[S_M_I_T_E]

<p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meridia@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Allow it to be reforged? /shrug</blockquote><p>It's kinda a bad idea to have this whole progression mechanic in place just to justify having gear with a lot of crit chance.</p></blockquote><p>Maybe they'll make the 'power level' of Rygorr, EM, and HM gear much more exponential.</p><p>Some of the game of inches stays but every now and again you get an item drop that boost you like a shot of NOS.</p><p>Sounds like a prelude to an itemization modification scheme that should have the carrots in the right places for future content in game.</p>

[Ortahr]

<p>I am glad this will pass through the test server 1st though.</p><p>Ort.</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>Meridia@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So how do you propose they give you a gating mechanic?</p><p>Let me guess, you're one of those guys that thinks you should be able to bring the new guy in legendary gear into HM?</p></blockquote><p>They didn't have a gating mechanic pre-TSO, and they aren't even using the current gating mechanics correctly, since all of Drunder HM shares the same crit avoidance/bonus buffs.  Plus, gating mechanics aside, gear makes so much more of a difference now than it did pre-TSO that gear checks will be more important than they were back then.</p>

[Hennyo]

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding here, this does very little to make weaker players any stronger in harder content, and will do much of nothing to allow some rygorr geared raid to step into HM Drunder. First off, someone in almost full HM Drunder gear will be sitting around say 240 CB and potency, while someone in RyGorr and and some x2 gear or something may only be 140 CB and potency. The difference is a world apart and the DPS, healing, or even hate gain will be on a completely different level. Here is another example, you take some EM tank and they have 60k hp buffed in raid, and the guild looks at their tank and thinks, look how strong our tank is, then you take a stacked HM drunder tank and you see some of them buffed over 120k hp, its a completely different level. All of that isn't even to mention the crazy change in skill checks guilds have to make on this higher end content regardless of how much certain people think things were nerfed, the truth is, the nerfs are quite minor for the most part outside of blatant encounter bug fixing. The only zones I can think of, that really truly got gutted was EM drunder, only because the stuff originally was as hard as most of HM drunder is now. Also there are people sitting at 290, or even 300 CM without a single CM adorn, also people sitting at 360+ CC solo of all classes, without any CC adorns or taking any extra CC AA on purpose other than trying to open some other AA choice. Here is the truth, these changes do absolutely nothing at all to these guilds deep in HM drunder. Except make it easier for them to drag someone through the zone with slightly less gear. Now about all the people crying about shards its crazy, if you raid at all, they come like candy, I am sitting on over 700 of the blue shards myself, and I have changed out plenty of adorns over time, and I have over 400 of the white ones, they are not hard to get at all. Also if your short on plat, go SLR some harder heroic stuff in your raid gear, and bring in thousands of plat in a few hours for your 6 man group. This all said tho, I do have one concern that should be addressed, there are a number of EM drunder pieces that will be better than the HM pieces for some classes due to the lack of meaningful red and yellow slot adornment choices for mages and healers in helms and boots. With the change for example, the EM Drunder helm and boots will be better than the HM Kael helm and boots for many mages and priests, because the CB and potency, and base stats are higher. Quite frankly, the EM drunder pieces in those slots are trivial to get next to the HM kael ones, and gear progression should def be considered.

[Ragnorrokk]

<p>the changes may be good depending on what they do with raiding gear crit mit value</p><p>some of the eow hm heroic loot is better stat wise then the hardmode raiding gear if you outright remove crit mit</p><p>hopefully this will not be the case, no way that a  heroic zone should have better gear then raid zones</p>

[slippery]

<p>Most people are really have no idea what this changes.</p><p>Let me give you a hint.</p><p>Nothing. It doesn't change anything. If you couldn't kill it before you can't kill it now. There are still plenty of gear checks, starting with critical avoidance, and further in to the point that a lot of the encounters already have built in dps checks. Only a few have actual time limits before becoming impossible or getting a buff that makes it a lot harder, but most have an inate dps check that if you can't keep up with adds you aren't going to kill the encounter.</p><p>They aren't changing any of the encounters for that exact reason. Crit Mit at this point in the game was entirely redundant. It didn't mean anything. There was already gear checks that would cause you to fail, they didn't need this one at well. People already had the crit mit they needed so they didn't get crit on encounters, that is why they adorned for it.</p><p>All it does change is making it so you no longer waste a few adornment slots, and that people might actually try things instead of thinking, crap this arbitrary number is telling me I can't so I'm not even going to bother.</p>

[SisterTheresa]

<p>Oh joy I get to see what I have to redo on my Guardian .. AGAIN.</p>

[Hennyo]

<p><cite>Ragnorrokk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>the changes may be good depending on what they do with raiding gear crit mit value</p><p>some of the eow hm heroic loot is better stat wise then the hardmode raiding gear if you outright remove crit mit</p><p>hopefully this will not be the case, no way that a  heroic zone should have better gear then raid zones</p></blockquote><p>I am going to have to disagree with this, the truth is, HM EoW is harder than even most HM raids past the second named. If the content is that hard, why shouldn't it reward gear as such, and even then the HM EoW gear is all worse than HM drunder gear, so I see absolutely no issue with the gear.</p><p>Also by some off chance, that some certain piece is better than HM drunder gear for some particular slot on some particular class, GOOD, it adds some favor back to the game.</p>

[Lempo]

<p>While all of these changes are taking place there is something that actually REALLY needs to be addressed.</p><p>HM zones should drop a Primal Velium Shard in each chest along with a Pure Primal, the reason that you made the ToFSx2 give Pure Primal was because of Red Slots on the drops, the drops in HM have Red and Yellow slots and either the Pure Primal need to be interchangeable for the Primals (NOT in the reverse though) or they need to start dropping in any zone that drops Red+Yellow slot equipment.</p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meridia@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So how do you propose they give you a gating mechanic?</p><p>Let me guess, you're one of those guys that thinks you should be able to bring the new guy in legendary gear into HM?</p></blockquote><p>They didn't have a gating mechanic pre-TSO, and they aren't even using the current gating mechanics correctly, since all of Drunder HM shares the same crit avoidance/bonus buffs.  Plus, gating mechanics aside, gear makes so much more of a difference now than it did pre-TSO that gear checks will be more important than they were back then.</p></blockquote><p>Yep!</p><p>You want to be able to take the guy in Legendary gear into HM.</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>Meridia@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meridia@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So how do you propose they give you a gating mechanic?</p><p>Let me guess, you're one of those guys that thinks you should be able to bring the new guy in legendary gear into HM?</p></blockquote><p>They didn't have a gating mechanic pre-TSO, and they aren't even using the current gating mechanics correctly, since all of Drunder HM shares the same crit avoidance/bonus buffs.  Plus, gating mechanics aside, gear makes so much more of a difference now than it did pre-TSO that gear checks will be more important than they were back then.</p></blockquote><p>Yep!</p><p>You want to be able to take the guy in Legendary gear into HM.</p></blockquote><p>Ok, you got me.</p>

[Loendar]

<p>I SO didn't see this coming - I'm .. stunned.</p>

[Anklesteiner]

<p>The funny thing is a person in legendary gear going into HM Drunder has just as much survivabilty as someone in a complete set of HM gear now.</p>

[ObsidianNightmare]

I'm with those that say if this does go through, the right thing to do is to refund shards that were used to purchase crit mit adorns.

[Onorem]

<p><cite>Laenai@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Silius wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><ul><li>The goal is for this change to not change the difficulty of the encounters. This is why we ask that you all take some time to log on to test once we push it there. We plan on having this on test by the weekend.</li></ul></blockquote><p>If we all log onto Test and try it out, will y'all double dog pinky swear to read the feedback, open discussion, and tweak where necessary?</p></blockquote><p>Since I found out they have some special test feedback forum that isn't available to all and that's where they respond to feedback, I refuse to test a product I already pay to have work properly. Put it on test and patch it the next day. You don't want the feedback of the masses anyway.</p>

[Ragnorrokk]

<p><cite>Hennyo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ragnorrokk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>the changes may be good depending on what they do with raiding gear crit mit value</p><p>some of the eow hm heroic loot is better stat wise then the hardmode raiding gear if you outright remove crit mit</p><p>hopefully this will not be the case, no way that a  heroic zone should have better gear then raid zones</p></blockquote><p>I am going to have to disagree with this, the truth is, HM EoW is harder than even most HM raids past the second named. If the content is that hard, why shouldn't it reward gear as such, and even then the HM EoW gear is all worse than HM drunder gear, so I see absolutely no issue with the gear.</p><p>Also by some off chance, that some certain piece is better than HM drunder gear for some particular slot on some particular class, GOOD, it adds some favor back to the game.</p></blockquote><p>I think its alot more difficult getting 24 people together that know what they are doing then 6 people.</p><p>*insults are not permitted on these forums*</p>

[Finora]

<p>I've thought Crit mit was a bad mechanic since it was introduced, I'm glad its going.</p><p>However, I have to wonder how it's all going to work out since so much content the past couple of years has been balanced (HAHAHAHA <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) around this mechanic being in game.</p><p>I'll have to see if I can get a fresh copy over to test_copy...</p>

[Oink]

<p>I can't get over this feeling the devs think this will finally fix dungeon finder.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>slippery wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Most people are really have no idea what this changes.</p><p>Let me give you a hint.</p><p>Nothing. It doesn't change anything. If you couldn't kill it before you can't kill it now. There are still plenty of gear checks, starting with critical avoidance, and further in to the point that a lot of the encounters already have built in dps checks. Only a few have actual time limits before becoming impossible or getting a buff that makes it a lot harder, but most have an inate dps check that if you can't keep up with adds you aren't going to kill the encounter.</p></blockquote><p>This really isn't true Slip.</p><p>You don't really have enough empathy with casual raid forces and the high degree of turnover they have and how long it takes them to gear up recruits.</p><p>Certainly this changes little for the top 100 guilds in game, but it does in fact change things for many others.</p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>slippery wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Most people are really have no idea what this changes.</p><p>Let me give you a hint.</p><p>Nothing. It doesn't change anything. If you couldn't kill it before you can't kill it now. There are still plenty of gear checks, starting with critical avoidance, and further in to the point that a lot of the encounters already have built in dps checks. Only a few have actual time limits before becoming impossible or getting a buff that makes it a lot harder, but most have an inate dps check that if you can't keep up with adds you aren't going to kill the encounter.</p></blockquote><p>This really isn't true Slip.</p><p>You don't really have enough empathy with casual raid forces and the high degree of turnover they have and how long it takes them to gear up recruits.</p><p>Certainly this changes little for the top 100 guilds in game, but it does in fact change things for many others.</p></blockquote><p>It doesn't change anything if you still need X amount of crit and now Y amount of HP to survive the aoes.</p><p>You'll still need gear before you can get into anything new.</p><p>And the guy back there saying there wasn't gating before TSO, there was. There wasn't hard modes, but you sure as hell wasn't taking a full Legendary raid into VP and clearing it.</p>

[Vieray]

<p><cite>Silius wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just to clarify some confusion.</p><ul><li>Crit mit as a mechanic is being removed. </li><li>NPC crit bonus was countered by crit mit and we are reducing crit bonus to 0 across the board. </li><li>Critical avoidance is staying around. Critical avoidance is an NPCs way of contesting your chance to critically hit them. </li><li>Replacing the adornments with HP is not to compensate for anything. Since the critical mitgiation stat is no longer useful we are converting to a stat that benefits all players.</li><li>The goal is for this change to not change the difficulty of the encounters. This is why we ask that you all take some time to log on to test once we push it there. We plan on having this on test by the weekend.</li></ul><p>Note: NPC crit bonus may be used in the future on a case by case bases and will be considered in the balance of the encounter so that crit mit is not required.</p><p>If you have any questions please do not hesitate to PM me.</p></blockquote><p>Well this doesn't really clarify very well.  CM is a way of artifically making fights harder...that is what it does.  By removing it you are changing the difficulty of every encounter that required CM.  So I don't get how the goal is to not change the difficulty of the encounters by changing the difficulty of the encounters.  Do you mean the difficulty of the fight if you already had the right amount of CM?  Are you going to be rebalacing every fight that had CM as a check?</p>

[Aoste]

<p>i think it´s a nice idea, now we can do useful things like multiattack an other good runes on our gear <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Ragnorrokk]

<p>removing crit mit will allow you to adorn for more dps type stuff,increasing dps raid wide,making encounter less difficult</p><p>darrrr</p>

[Daalilama]

<p>I think the fears of casual or low end raid forces steam rolling into hm drunder zones dropping every mob when this goes live are way misplaced.  If your force didnt have the needed stats (cb/cc/pot/etc) before hand to drop a hm drunder named before hand then its extremely unlikely you will do so when the change go through.  HM mobs already have more bugs then we care to recite from double buff packages to doublecast and pathing issues to name a few.  Will the removal of crit mit alleviate some issues guilds have with gearing recruits out yes but not all of them.  We we see a possible smoother progression for low to medium raid forces maybe too early to tell until this hits live.  As for the crit mit adorns being turned into hp adorns if the devs give a small token number they will not be used at all anything under 2k would be a joke and a waste..while my raid force has not entered hm drunder yet aside from farming trash occasionally for drops...I do plan on going into them and test out the changes but doubt very strongly anything progression wise will come of it.</p><p>The best thing that can come from this change when it goes to test is to finally fix every bug hm names have (double cast/pathing/double buff packages) before this all goes live but highly doubt thats on the agenda aside from remove crit mit</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Meridia@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It doesn't change anything if you still need X amount of crit and now Y amount of HP to survive the aoes.</p><p>You'll still need gear before you can get into anything new.</p><p>And the guy back there saying there wasn't gating before TSO, there was. There wasn't hard modes, but you sure as hell wasn't taking a full Legendary raid into VP and clearing it.</p></blockquote><p>We have far more options on how to build and buff a raid force to compensate for low HP, where being 70 points low on CM has a very predictable and repeatable result.</p><p>And as far as your legendary/VP comment, while maybe true, there was no issue dragging 3-4 legendary geared recruits thru the zone with your geared raid force.</p>

[Leovinus]

<p><cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The funny thing is a person in legendary gear going into HM Drunder has just as much survivabilty as someone in a complete set of HM gear now.</p></blockquote><p>Maybe close to (ish, there's a huge HP difference), but not exactly, and they'll have next to no ability to actively contribute to the success of the raid.</p>

[Anklesteiner]

<p><cite>Leovinus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The funny thing is a person in legendary gear going into HM Drunder has just as much survivabilty as someone in a complete set of HM gear now.</p></blockquote><p>Maybe close to (ish, there's a huge HP difference), but not exactly, and they'll have next to no ability to actively contribute to the success of the raid.</p></blockquote><p>But they'll still be able to survive in the content. Which now means there is no survivablity check. Which now means anybody can come into any content and be able to survive. Thus removing any notion of progression.</p>

[Qonamderlo]

<p>I for one am not looking forward to this, i agree with we should be allowed to choose the stats to replace crit mit with because a lot of tanks have spent a lot of time and gems on getting their critmit where they need it for progression, and if you go and just replace it with some random values like HP or STR.... fail IMO. I don't see this going well in any way.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But they'll still be able to survive in the content. Which now means there is no survivablity check. Which now means anybody can come into any content and be able to survive. Thus removing any notion of progression.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, it greatly increases the number of encounters undergeared recruits can 'tag along' with a geared raidforce on.</p><p>It by no means equates to sloppy casual raiders suddenly killing Drunder HM mobs.</p><p>All this does in terms of raiding allows guilds to progress a little bit faster and dealing with recruits a little bit easier.</p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meridia@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It doesn't change anything if you still need X amount of crit and now Y amount of HP to survive the aoes.</p><p>You'll still need gear before you can get into anything new.</p><p>And the guy back there saying there wasn't gating before TSO, there was. There wasn't hard modes, but you sure as hell wasn't taking a full Legendary raid into VP and clearing it.</p></blockquote><p>We have far more options on how to build and buff a raid force to compensate for low HP, where being 70 points low on CM has a very predictable and repeatable result.</p><p>And as far as your legendary/VP comment, while maybe true, there was no issue dragging 3-4 legendary geared recruits thru the zone with your geared raid force.</p></blockquote><p>There still isn't. We do it quite often.</p><p>They die, we leave them dead, they're still eligible for loot.</p>

[Jaxl]

<p><cite>Onorem wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Laenai@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Silius wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><ul><li>The goal is for this change to not change the difficulty of the encounters. This is why we ask that you all take some time to log on to test once we push it there. We plan on having this on test by the weekend.</li></ul></blockquote><p>If we all log onto Test and try it out, will y'all double dog pinky swear to read the feedback, open discussion, and tweak where necessary?</p></blockquote><p>Since I found out they have some special test feedback forum that isn't available to all and that's where they respond to feedback, I refuse to test a product I already pay to have work properly. Put it on test and patch it the next day. You don't want the feedback of the masses anyway.</p></blockquote><p>Uhh, they hardly ever post in the testers forum...</p>

[Cyrim]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>slippery wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Most people are really have no idea what this changes.</p><p>Let me give you a hint.</p><p>Nothing. It doesn't change anything. If you couldn't kill it before you can't kill it now. There are still plenty of gear checks, starting with critical avoidance, and further in to the point that a lot of the encounters already have built in dps checks. Only a few have actual time limits before becoming impossible or getting a buff that makes it a lot harder, but most have an inate dps check that if you can't keep up with adds you aren't going to kill the encounter.</p></blockquote><p>This really isn't true Slip.</p><p>You don't really have enough empathy with casual raid forces and the high degree of turnover they have and how long it takes them to gear up recruits.</p><p>Certainly this changes little for the top 100 guilds in game, but it does in fact change things for many others.</p></blockquote><p>I disagree. This does not change much for casuals because I am not a believer that CM was the only thing stopping their raid forces from progressing. Casuals tend to fail simple scripts and tactics at a much greater rate. Taking away CM might increase the suvivability some, but it does not change ability to adapt to the situation, or ability to pre-cure, or ability to cover a specific curse, or ability to handle the clickies, or low crit % rates....the list goes on.</p><p>I'm sorry. I do not want to personally downgrade casuals. I commend them for their efforts. It's just they tend to fail because all the pieces to the puzzle can't be put together.</p>

[Ampd]

<p>You know CM hasnt always been in the game and raid mobs were never just tank and spank, think before you post dumb comments</p>

[Cyrim]

<p><cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Leovinus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The funny thing is a person in legendary gear going into HM Drunder has just as much survivabilty as someone in a complete set of HM gear now.</p></blockquote><p>Maybe close to (ish, there's a huge HP difference), but not exactly, and they'll have next to no ability to actively contribute to the success of the raid.</p></blockquote><p>But they'll still be able to survive in the content. Which now means there is no survivablity check. Which now means anybody can come into any content and be able to survive. Thus removing any notion of progression.</p></blockquote><p>If you are stuck on harder content, then the only way to get past it would be with those who can contribute. Surviving is not contributing when your gear is so low that you can't even crit 50% of the time. This is just one example, but it easily applies across DPS, HPS, and Aggro as being ineffective. You still won't be able to kill harder content with these results.</p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Leovinus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The funny thing is a person in legendary gear going into HM Drunder has just as much survivabilty as someone in a complete set of HM gear now.</p></blockquote><p>Maybe close to (ish, there's a huge HP difference), but not exactly, and they'll have next to no ability to actively contribute to the success of the raid.</p></blockquote><p>But they'll still be able to survive in the content. Which now means there is no survivablity check. Which now means anybody can come into any content and be able to survive. Thus removing any notion of progression.</p></blockquote><p>Not exactly.</p><p>Those aoes they needed CM to survive through still deal a ton of damage. And that damage is NOT percentage based.</p><p>Though I'm curious as to if this would make say, Challenge Temple of Rallos Zek(group zone) easier... that twin idols still gets my goat.</p>

[Khiah]

<p>The problem to me isnt the removal of cm or the loss of any shards etc, its what is replacing it. Im guessing if cm will no longer be needed and theyre replacing it w hp then hp will be whats needed along w cc. Meaning we will not have the option of adorning w more dps or potency etc itll just be hp... I just hope they put alot of thought into this change whats the point of the work that would be put into this if only a 'word' is changed. Dont simplify the game any further afterall if <span style="color: #000080;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>Epic MMO Gaming on an Unmatched Scale</strong> </span><span style="color: #000000;">is what Eq2 is based on then lets not have a wowafied version</span>. </span></p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Cyrim wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>slippery wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Most people are really have no idea what this changes.</p><p>Let me give you a hint.</p><p>Nothing. It doesn't change anything. If you couldn't kill it before you can't kill it now. There are still plenty of gear checks, starting with critical avoidance, and further in to the point that a lot of the encounters already have built in dps checks. Only a few have actual time limits before becoming impossible or getting a buff that makes it a lot harder, but most have an inate dps check that if you can't keep up with adds you aren't going to kill the encounter.</p></blockquote><p>This really isn't true Slip.</p><p>You don't really have enough empathy with casual raid forces and the high degree of turnover they have and how long it takes them to gear up recruits.</p><p>Certainly this changes little for the top 100 guilds in game, but it does in fact change things for many others.</p></blockquote><p>I disagree. This does not change much for casuals because I am not a believer that CM was the only thing stopping their raid forces from progressing. Casuals tend to fail simple scripts and tactics at a much greater rate. Taking away CM might increase the suvivability some, but it does not change ability to adapt to the situation, or ability to pre-cure, or ability to cover a specific curse, or ability to handle the clickies, or low crit % rates....the list goes on.</p><p>I'm sorry. I do not want to personally downgrade casuals. I commend them for their efforts. It's just they tend to fail because all the pieces to the puzzle can't be put together.</p></blockquote><p>It's not casuals that are affected by scripts and stuff. I know quite a few casual players that have decent progression.</p><p>It's bad players that can't follow scripts. There's a difference.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Cyrim wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I disagree. This does not change much for casuals because I am not a believer that CM was the only thing stopping their raid forces from progressing. Casuals tend to fail simple scripts and tactics at a much greater rate. Taking away CM might increase the suvivability some, but it does not change ability to adapt to the situation, or ability to pre-cure, or ability to cover a specific curse, or ability to handle the clickies, or low crit % rates....the list goes on.</p><p>I'm sorry. I do not want to personally downgrade casuals. I commend them for their efforts. It's just they tend to fail because all the pieces to the puzzle can't be put together.</p></blockquote><p>Wow, I never said it was the only thing stopping their progression.  I only said the constant regearing was a significant contributing factor to the slow speed of their progression.  That slow speed only served to feed the attrition rate as people simply got tired of gearing recruitXYZ to replace mainABC who left the previous week from being tired of gearing recruitTUV.</p><p>Skill, raid build, other contributing factors will continue to gate them to content, I never said it wouldn't.  However they'll get to spend more time on the encounters that are actually gating them, where previously they've been having to re-run EM content to gear recruits before being able to spend time on entry level HM stuffs.</p><p>Running a guild that has both HC and Casual raidforces, I've had a pretty solid notion of how much CM and gearing of recruits has affected either force.  And I do see this change helping their speed of progression, but by no means suddenly leap frogging them up the ladder.</p>

[General_Info]

<p><cite>Meridia@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>It's not casuals that are affected by scripts and stuff. I know quite a few casual players that have decent progression.<p>It's bad players that can't follow scripts. There's a difference.</p></blockquote><p>The difference is when a good player makes a msitake he or she learns from it. when a bad player makes a mistake he/she does not learn from it.</p><p>not having enough time to gain experiance on encounters and content does not mean people are bad players it simply means that their lives are more time consuming then others.</p>

[Onorem]

<p><cite>Jaxl wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Onorem wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Laenai@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Silius wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><ul><li>The goal is for this change to not change the difficulty of the encounters. This is why we ask that you all take some time to log on to test once we push it there. We plan on having this on test by the weekend.</li></ul></blockquote><p>If we all log onto Test and try it out, will y'all double dog pinky swear to read the feedback, open discussion, and tweak where necessary?</p></blockquote><p>Since I found out they have some special test feedback forum that isn't available to all and that's where they respond to feedback, I refuse to test a product I already pay to have work properly. Put it on test and patch it the next day. You don't want the feedback of the masses anyway.</p></blockquote><p>Uhh, they hardly ever post in the testers forum...</p></blockquote><p>Is that the special testers forum or the In Testing Feedback forum? It was explained to me one of the last times I tried to give test feedback that they can't be bothered to respond to everyone in test feedback. They do most of it through the sooper sekret forum. Either way, the In Testing Feedback forum is a waste of time, so I won't be pitching in to help test.</p>

[Anastasie]

<p>I really don't want to go back to the days where you had to have a shaman in every group since the ae's hit so rediculously hard.  I will be very unhappy if that happens again - I hated it in TSO.  DPS groups shouldn't need more than one healer and it just makes it boring and not fun for the healers if they have to have a shaman there soley to prevent one-shots.  I worry that since they are changing the crit mit to HP that they will ramp up the amount of damage theAE's are putting out.</p>

[Dethdlr]

<p>Fantastic news.  Now if they would just remove critical avoidance from the mobs. </p><p>Take us back to how it was before SF.  Back to a time when player ability instead of two stats separated the good players from the average ones.</p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Anastasie wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I really don't want to go back to the days where you had to have a shaman in every group since the ae's hit so rediculously hard.  I will be very unhappy if that happens again - I hated it in TSO.  DPS groups shouldn't need more than one healer and it just makes it boring and not fun for the healers if they have to have a shaman there soley to prevent one-shots.  I worry that since they are changing the crit mit to HP that they will ramp up the amount of damage theAE's are putting out.</p></blockquote><p>It's already pretty much like this.</p><p>Most of our raid healers' setups are Inquisitor for cures and shaman for wards.</p><p>Only difference is the mage group, where we usually have a fury, and MT group, where we'd prefer a warden, but we don't always have one.</p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Dethdlr@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Fantastic news.  Now if they would just remove critical avoidance from the mobs. </p><p>Take us back to how it was before SF.  Back to a time when player ability instead of two stats separated the good players from the average ones.</p></blockquote><p>Oh, you mean gut crit chance on gear too?</p><p>Becuase that's why theres crit avoidance. Because we have over 100% crit chance through gear alone.</p>

[Gervon]

<p>As usual, I do not see anything worth debating, until this at least hits test since we really dont know what this involves. However I did see a few posts about armor progression being thrown off. People not understanding why normal Legendary people should be able to enter Drunder HM or EM zones.</p><p>Well I for one am hoping that I can start tanking and finishing Drunder zones. I have all Drunder player made gear, I have the new Reactant BP, I have all X2 EM Jewlery and weapons, but I still could not tank any Drunder instance fully with a group all dressed in similar gear, minus a BP here and there.</p><p>Drunder should always have been do-able in Rygorr gear only. True progression should have been, PQ Armour = Rime zones, Rime Armour=Kael zones, Kael Armour(Rygorr)=Drunder, Drunder Armour=EoW , all legendary zones in Easy or Normal mode. Instead we had PQ=tough run through Rime zones, Rime Armour = near impossible Kael zones. Rygorr= good luck attempting Drunder. What I just stated does not apply to Hard Mode or Challenge Modes. Those should be left for the X2 and X4 Raiders who need challenging content for what they are wearing.</p><p>In order to even attempt EM Drunder you need to be fully equipped in X2 gear to have a decent shot at it, and at that end what is the point of doing Drunder when your already in better gear from the X2 raid zones. Thus forcing all people to Raid even if they dont want to. I personally am not a raider, never have been, I enjoyed what I could get out of the legendary zones. However I have been locked to Kael and Rime zones for way to long. The X4 Raid geared people sure as heck are getting rich beyond there wildest dreams in our server, becuase only they can do the EM or HM Drunder and EoW zones and they sell the stuff like crazy on our servers. So yeah, I mean I guess I could buy the armour, and maybe then one day I could actually do a zone up there, but thats not the point of the game to me.</p><p>All zones need to be earned including X4 Raid zones. But they should follow a path. A fair path. Legendary zones should be for those of us who enjoy hitting up the occasional Zone to slowly build a groups armour or gear over time and X4 Raid people should have their zones as well. HM or challenge mode was a great Idea, that kept out the people who didnt want to take the time to go through all of the elements X4 or X2 Raiding, as in dressing 24 people fully so they might enjoy the occasional 6 person team in a challenging and fun zone. But EM should be left to the multiple people who dont want END GAME material, we just want to get our toons dressed to a point that maybe on the off chance a friend may ask us to join an X4 or X2 raid, we are not going to go "SPLAT" the moment a named Farts in our general direction.</p><p>So I say YAY!! to losing the CRTMT, however lets also allow the humble people who have waited patiently in the highest gear they can get, without raiding, to at least enjoy playing in zones we all have paid for. Allow us to finally complete them without having to be in X4 or X2 Raid gear, they are in essence only legendary zones. Let the X4's and X2's have their Challenge Modes, give them better loot, they deserve something from all the work they put intot their Raiding. For the love of Pete let me have my EM crap gear, I dont mind just let me play in Drunder and EoW....  </p><p>Aside from Plat farming, what are the zones good for if your already in X4HM gear. Again speaking only of the Easy or Normal modes for those zones.</p>

[Miapa]

<p>This is amazing news.  Thanks Smokejumper!  I feel a new burst of energy to raid again =)</p>

[Cyrim]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cyrim wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I disagree. This does not change much for casuals because I am not a believer that CM was the only thing stopping their raid forces from progressing. Casuals tend to fail simple scripts and tactics at a much greater rate. Taking away CM might increase the suvivability some, but it does not change ability to adapt to the situation, or ability to pre-cure, or ability to cover a specific curse, or ability to handle the clickies, or low crit % rates....the list goes on.</p><p>I'm sorry. I do not want to personally downgrade casuals. I commend them for their efforts. It's just they tend to fail because all the pieces to the puzzle can't be put together.</p></blockquote><p>Wow, I never said it was the only thing stopping their progression.  I only said the constant regearing was a significant contributing factor to the slow speed of their progression.  That slow speed only served to feed the attrition rate as people simply got tired of gearing recruitXYZ to replace mainABC who left the previous week from being tired of gearing recruitTUV.</p><p>Skill, raid build, other contributing factors will continue to gate them to content, I never said it wouldn't.  However they'll get to spend more time on the encounters that are actually gating them, where previously they've been having to re-run EM content to gear recruits before being able to spend time on entry level HM stuffs.</p><p>Running a guild that has both HC and Casual raidforces, I've had a pretty solid notion of how much CM and gearing of recruits has affected either force.  And I do see this change helping their speed of progression, but by no means suddenly leap frogging them up the ladder.</p></blockquote><p>I read too much into your comment then. I respect your opinion and will leave it at that.</p>

[S_M_I_T_E]

<p><cite>Cyrim wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I disagree. This does not change much for casuals because I am not a believer that CM was the only thing stopping their raid forces from progressing. Casuals tend to fail simple scripts and tactics at a much greater rate. <span style="color: #ff00ff;">Taking away CM might increase the suvivability some, but it does not change ability to adapt to the situation, or ability to pre-cure, or ability to cover a specific curse, or ability to handle the clickies, or low crit % rates....the list goes on.</span></p><p>I'm sorry. I do not want to personally downgrade casuals. I commend them for their efforts. It's just they tend to fail because all the pieces to the puzzle can't be put together.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;">Ok, in part you are correct.</span></p><p>Casual raiders are not usually more than passive users of ACT.  I personally can only get mine to spit out some DPS to my clipboard after formatting it and have not forced myself to figure out how to make it talk to me. </p><p>I have no clue how to toggle through 'previous' encounters or post different formats on command (DPS parse, Heal parse, whatever).  What's on my static clipboard is all I've got and I usually thumb throught the pics, graphs, and analysis after I log out.  I've never had reason to care to force myself through ACT mastery. </p><p>The hardmode raiders that came on down from high to help my former casual EM guild used ACT 'speak mode' to tell them <em>with a lead</em> when to cure, <em>who </em>to cure, when to preward, whatever.  The HM player running their EM healer was always ahead of me on the cures because they were <em>reacting</em> to ACT <em>voice cues</em> while I was <em>reacting</em> to <em>visual game cues</em> in the player window when group members got dets. </p><p>I had to rehearse fights and get the 'feel' right so yes, Casuals won't go as far as those who've delved into ACT mastery to give them what appears to borderline on precognition.</p><p>ACT mastery is in part separates those who Solo All of PR and those who just do 3 mobs and move on because they can't DPS the deathtouch down before the deathtouch goes off.</p><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;">If ACT were to become EQ2 map easy in it's user interface then some of the differences between casuals and hardcore would probably shrink.</span></p>

[Maroger]

<p>Please return the shards we spent on red and yellow addorn for crit mit - we may want something else and not the stat you subsitute.</p>

[Maergoth]

<p>You paid shards for survivability functionality. Your adornment is still going to serve that purpose.</p><p>If you want something else, buy something else, but stop suckling the teat of pity.</p><p>It's just shards.</p>

[S_M_I_T_E]

<p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please return the shards we spent on red and yellow addorn for crit mit - we may want something else and not the stat you subsitute.</p></blockquote><p>Who needs more raid shards unless you're feeding more than 1 character your shards? </p><p>I only raided 9 months in DOV and I have 140 just chillin. </p><p>Allowing raid shards to be convertable to a set fraction of heroic shards wouldn't be the end of the world though.</p><p>(1 raid:2 heroic perhaps?)</p>

[KNINE]

<p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please return the shards we spent on red and yellow addorn for crit mit - we may want something else and not the stat you subsitute.</p></blockquote><p>lol if u've spent them on Crit mit adorns for multiple pieces of gear then obviously you have the shards in the bank.. most people have more than enough</p><p>thats like asking for them to give me back my colassal reactant because they are nerfing the 2 hander lol.. not happening</p>

[ibehaven]

<p>Wow, so this is the great fix to broken progression content. I'm pretty sure the guilds that are failing in Drunder HM aren't failing because they aren't meeting a crit mit check. I hope by removing crit mit they raise the soft cap for multi attack because everyone and their mother is going to be close to 600 now if we don't have to adorn for CM. Real smart continuing to over inflate HP and let DPS go off into a exponentially high trajectory this expansion. That seems really "forward-extensible."</p><p>So, I'll expect to see this pushed out to early, as usual, rife with more broken "features." Thanks.</p>

[kahonen]

<p><cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Leovinus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The funny thing is a person in legendary gear going into HM Drunder has just as much survivabilty as someone in a complete set of HM gear now.</p></blockquote><p>Maybe close to (ish, there's a huge HP difference), but not exactly, and they'll have next to no ability to actively contribute to the success of the raid.</p></blockquote><p>But they'll still be able to survive in the content. Which now means there is no survivablity check. Which now means anybody can come into any content and be able to survive. Thus removing any notion of progression.</p></blockquote><p>You couldn't be more wrong if you'd set out to be. </p><p>I think you'll find there's a bit more to progression than surviving.  You may find that the "notion of progression" involves killing things as well.</p>

[Dethdlr]

<p><cite>Meridia@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dethdlr@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Fantastic news.  Now if they would just remove critical avoidance from the mobs. </p><p>Take us back to how it was before SF.  Back to a time when player ability instead of two stats separated the good players from the average ones.</p></blockquote><p>Oh, you mean gut crit chance on gear too?</p><p>Becuase that's why theres crit avoidance. Because we have over 100% crit chance through gear alone.</p></blockquote><p>Yes.  That's exactly what I mean.   That was another idea I thought was silly when they put it in the game in the first place.</p><p>But this will do for now.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Cyrim]

<p><cite>S_M_I_T_E wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cyrim wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I disagree. This does not change much for casuals because I am not a believer that CM was the only thing stopping their raid forces from progressing. Casuals tend to fail simple scripts and tactics at a much greater rate. <span style="color: #ff00ff;">Taking away CM might increase the suvivability some, but it does not change ability to adapt to the situation, or ability to pre-cure, or ability to cover a specific curse, or ability to handle the clickies, or low crit % rates....the list goes on.</span></p><p>I'm sorry. I do not want to personally downgrade casuals. I commend them for their efforts. It's just they tend to fail because all the pieces to the puzzle can't be put together.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;">Ok, in part you are correct.</span></p><p>Casual raiders are not usually more than passive users of ACT.  I personally can only get mine to spit out some DPS to my clipboard after formatting it and have not forced myself to figure out how to make it talk to me. </p><p>I have no clue how to toggle through 'previous' encounters or post different formats on command (DPS parse, Heal parse, whatever).  What's on my static clipboard is all I've got and I usually thumb throught the pics, graphs, and analysis after I log out.  I've never had reason to care to force myself through ACT mastery. </p><p>The hardmode raiders that came on down from high to help my former casual EM guild used ACT 'speak mode' to tell them <em>with a lead</em> when to cure, <em>who </em>to cure, when to preward, whatever.  The HM player running their EM healer was always ahead of me on the cures because they were <em>reacting</em> to ACT <em>voice cues</em> while I was <em>reacting</em> to <em>visual game cues</em> in the player window when group members got dets. </p><p>I had to rehearse fights and get the 'feel' right so yes, Casuals won't go as far as those who've delved into ACT mastery to give them what appears to borderline on precognition.</p><p>ACT mastery is in part separates those who Solo All of PR and those who just do 3 mobs and move on because they can't DPS the deathtouch down before the deathtouch goes off.</p><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;">If ACT were to become EQ2 map easy in it's user interface then some of the differences between casuals and hardcore would probably shrink.</span></p></blockquote><p>All of that can be done with the ingame UI and a good internal clock. ACT just helps enhance those abilities. You don't have to be a master of it to raid HM.</p>

[Neiklow]

<p>If HP become king  will the healers get increased heals to be able to heal all those HPs?  It would be nice to see some of the 'broken' issues addressed rather than a blanket revamp like this.  I guess when you let your developers go you have to do the easy fixes.  I wish they would get eq2players back up before this got done  but  hey I just play, pay my monthly fee ( 8 years + to eq2) I guess my opinion  well lets just say   YAAAAAA   another revamp  more excitment in game..   </p>

[Cocytus]

<p>Wow, finally. This is only about 2-3 years too late.</p>

[shots01]

<p>I am esctatic ?? LOL that people like me, my lvl 90 fury, MIGHT actually be able to join a group now.  Her crit mig sucks.  I am not a grinder, I dont raid, I can't get groups because my crit mit is too low for most of the groups on the server.</p><p>I personally, can hug Sony to pieces for this grand piece of news.</p><p>Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and many cupcakes to you!</p>

[hangingout77]

<p><cite>Mystfit wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm curious, How will this affect *the little guy*. As in, non-radier, non-mega geared person. We are basically trolling in the easier beginning DOV instances, but mostly because we want to run 3 people, 3 mercs and scripting is too heavy in many zones to not have 6 real people and not, I assume, because of crit mit. Will we see any progression in our eq2 experience. I'd love it, we've felt so down-trodden for so long, but am not clear enough on crit mit to know it it affected our progression.</p></blockquote><p>For real? This is a prime example of why crit mit should stay. Well to answer it for you it means u can go in to the hardest zone with quest gear and your merc's and be ok. It may take you 10 hours to complet the zone but it will be posable. SOE has made the game very simple. Instead of needing a little of all stats all u need is 2 and the right amount of crit mit for the zone you want to run.... o wait NVM crit mit is being taken out. SO all tanks will be the same all casters will be the same so on and so forth. remember back when it took a week to reach lvl 20? Now we can go from lvl 1 to 90 in a day. seen it done a few times. SOE says they hear us when we give them feed back about the game... I dont beleave they do. I feel that they only hear the few that cry they cant do it and its to hard so they keep makeing things easyer. Look at the Shard gear.... o sorry rygor and thurg gear... cant call it shard gear since you DON'T need shards to craft it i guess. Blah another horable choice by SOE!</p>

[Helmarf]

<p>Well hello there, fun factor to the game???</p><p>What things should then make raidzone X boss X be harder then others?</p><p>In that case you mights as well remove spell resists/physical mititgation to and why dont remove avoidance while your at it?</p><p>But there is 1 thing that i found absolutely not fun when raiding is that anoying Demoralisation Spell from tofs X2, feel free to get rid of that for good please thank you!!!</p>

[Alvane]

<p>OK, I can handle the changes but what are you going to do for the warden.</p><p>1. Shattered Infections (Warden Tree) is useless and nothing has replaced it.</p><p>2. The Future Critical Debilitation (Shadow Tree) will be useless. Will SoE do the same thing as they did for Shattered Infections? Nothing?</p><p>I do hope you consider how much your changes are effecting the warden, particularly when you don't replace useless AA selections with something that works and is useful.</p><p>Oh, well.............................................. ......................</p>

[slippery]

<p><cite>Meridia@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And the guy back there saying there wasn't gating before TSO, there was. There wasn't hard modes, but you sure as hell wasn't taking a full Legendary raid into VP and clearing it.</p></blockquote><p>Actually, VP was cleared the first time through after everyone got to max level in quested gear. </p><p>Things are entirely different now though, there is still meaningful need of itemized progression. You still need the increased potential you gain from gear, as well as the crit to be able to progress. </p>

[Fungie]

<p>I like the removal of CM, at least on some level.  By removing the gear-check, the game is more about skill.  However, CM was a good tool to slow the progression of top-level guilds, and I have concerns about how long any new content will last for such guilds when CM isn't there to turn a difficult fight into an impossible one.  Concerns aside, what I definitely don't like about it is the fact that it is basically Reforging 2.0 (though admittedly not as severe.)</p><p>Mages will be adding:</p><p>Helm: ???Shoulders: No ChangeChest: +2 potency (assuming colossal reactant robe)Forearms: +3 Potency, +2 potencyHands: +1.5 pot/cb, +1 pot/cbLegs: +3 CB, + 2 CBFeet: ???</p><p>With HM gear + reactant robe, this comes out to a total of +9.5 pot and +7.5 CB.</p><p>If you assume they have 250 pot and 240 CB in raid, this translates into a ~4% increase in dps.</p><p>(Mages could also go for CB on their forearms, but the result is basically the same.)</p><p>Scouts will be adding:</p><p>Helm: +7 MA, +5 MA Shoulders: No Change Chest: +7 MA, +5 MA Forearms: +3 CB, +2 CB Hands: +7 MA, +5 MA Legs: +3 CB, + 2 CB Feet: +7 MA, +5 MA</p><p>With HM gear + colossal bp, this comes out to a total of +10 CB and +41 MA.</p><p>If you assume the scout is at 240 CB and 550 MA in raid (having tucked away any MA that's over the cap into other stats) and that autoattack is 45% of their dps, this translates into a ~6% increase in dps.</p><p>Normally, I wouldn't complain, but this change favors scouts (except perhaps for brigs, since they never cared for CM to begin with) at a time when BLs are already OP.  <strong>Sorcs and predators are supposed to be T1 dps.</strong>  BLs shouldn't be able to outparse them (as BLs have much more utility and versatility, and the increased utility and versatility should mean decreased dps [presumably they would not be willing to sacrifice anything else, such as 5-8k hp]), but most sorcs and predators are complaining that they are being outparsed by BLs.</p><p>In the interest of class balance, it would be nice to see the following changes:</p><p><strong>Beastlord</strong> (reduce damage by ~3% overall, make recasting the pet less annoying, resolve aggro issues, fix savage howl)-5% dmg to advantages-15% damage to primalsreduce pet recast by 50% and casting time by 25%+10% hate xfer <span style="text-decoration: underline;">or</span> +15% hate dispersal to the group (e.g. in a full group, all of the other members get 3% of the BL's hate) <span style="text-decoration: underline;">or</span> 15% hate xfer onto their pet</p><p>Fix savage howl:</p><ol><li>a spell similar to conj's communion: summons 4 random warders for 15 seconds (costs 100 savagery)<em>... OR...</em></li><li>(bonus points) make it summon five random warders, one of which would swoop in every 5 seconds and do some sort of special attack (e.g. 15-20k tooltip single-target dmg, 10-15k tooltip for AEs) or buff (e.g. +5 cb for the group for 15 seconds, +5 pot ..., mini-PoM for the group for 10 seconds) or heal (e.g. 10k ward across the group, 20-sec HoT, single-trigger group stoneskin, etc.); costs 100 savagery</li></ol><p><strong>Wizard</strong> (increase damage by ~5% overall)+5% SDA to wizard myth or TW'able manaburn</p><p><strong>Warlock</strong> (increase damage by ~5% overall)-1% damage to all spellsget rid of useless focus effects such as:</p><ul><li>rift reuse on the gloves (+1 tick to cataclsym or add "tremor" [or some such thing] to rift that hits for 50% of rifts damage on rift's termination)</li><li>the cast speed/reuse for abso on legs (change to +4 seconds to Curse of Darkness)</li><li>the reuse for apoc on feet (+1 tick to apoc)</li></ul><p>Also, make spells capable of being multi attacked.  There's no sense in changing "Spell Double Attack" into "Spell Multi Attack" if spells can't hit more than twice.  This will sort of make up for the shaft that all mages got in reforging / removal of CM.</p><p>(PS: It would seem as though rangers could also use a 5% boost or so.)</p>

[Hennyo]

<p><cite>hangingout77 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Mystfit wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm curious, How will this affect *the little guy*. As in, non-radier, non-mega geared person. We are basically trolling in the easier beginning DOV instances, but mostly because we want to run 3 people, 3 mercs and scripting is too heavy in many zones to not have 6 real people and not, I assume, because of crit mit. Will we see any progression in our eq2 experience. I'd love it, we've felt so down-trodden for so long, but am not clear enough on crit mit to know it it affected our progression.</p></blockquote><p>For real? This is a prime example of why crit mit should stay. Well to answer it for you it means u can go in to the hardest zone with quest gear and your merc's and be ok. It may take you 10 hours to complet the zone but it will be posable. SOE has made the game very simple. Instead of needing a little of all stats all u need is 2 and the right amount of crit mit for the zone you want to run.... o wait NVM crit mit is being taken out. SO all tanks will be the same all casters will be the same so on and so forth. remember back when it took a week to reach lvl 20? Now we can go from lvl 1 to 90 in a day. seen it done a few times. SOE says they hear us when we give them feed back about the game... I dont beleave they do. I feel that they only hear the few that cry they cant do it and its to hard so they keep makeing things easyer. Look at the Shard gear.... o sorry rygor and thurg gear... cant call it shard gear since you DON'T need shards to craft it i guess. Blah another horable choice by SOE!</p></blockquote><p>I am sorry, but this is obviously just trolling, and like many others have said, this does all of nothing to make it easier for those who are undergeared to complete this content, DoV has dps check fights all over the place, both heroic and raid. People still need gear to meet dps checks, and basic survivablity checks, also the resists on jewlery still mean something, even if it may not seem like it most of the time.</p><p>The only thing this changes for people with less gear, is that they could be dragged along on harder content with less gear without being as much of a liablity, instead they just don't contribute near as much as geared players do.</p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>shots01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am esctatic ?? LOL that people like me, my lvl 90 fury, MIGHT actually be able to join a group now.  Her crit mig sucks.  I am not a grinder, I dont raid, I can't get groups because my crit mit is too low for most of the groups on the server.</p><p> I personally, can hug Sony to pieces for this grand piece of news.</p><p> Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and many cupcakes to you!</p></blockquote><p>When I see posts like this I am more in support of this change if not only for the fact that you will soon realize that it isn't the crit mit.</p><p>"Does this drees make me look fat?" like Andrew Dice Clay said "It isn't the dress that makes you look fat, it is the fat that makes you look fat"</p><p>If your crit mit is too low for most of the groups on the server they will now be asking for your crit chance/crit bonus because these were pretty much in line with your crit mit, and while they were asking for crit mit for zones that didn't even require it, the other stats that would be in line with having that much crit mit will be missing, and you will probably be getting kicked or ask to drop group because your DPS is not high enough and your hits will not be critting often enough and be even more lacking because of all the lost crit bonus.</p><p>You are not going to be able to do ANYTHING any better than what you were before, so yuck it up, and eat your cupcakes lol.</p>

[Katonka]

<p><cite>Hennyo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>hangingout77 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Mystfit wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm curious, How will this affect *the little guy*. As in, non-radier, non-mega geared person. We are basically trolling in the easier beginning DOV instances, but mostly because we want to run 3 people, 3 mercs and scripting is too heavy in many zones to not have 6 real people and not, I assume, because of crit mit. Will we see any progression in our eq2 experience. I'd love it, we've felt so down-trodden for so long, but am not clear enough on crit mit to know it it affected our progression.</p></blockquote><p>For real? This is a prime example of why crit mit should stay. Well to answer it for you it means u can go in to the hardest zone with quest gear and your merc's and be ok. It may take you 10 hours to complet the zone but it will be posable. SOE has made the game very simple. Instead of needing a little of all stats all u need is 2 and the right amount of crit mit for the zone you want to run.... o wait NVM crit mit is being taken out. SO all tanks will be the same all casters will be the same so on and so forth. remember back when it took a week to reach lvl 20? Now we can go from lvl 1 to 90 in a day. seen it done a few times. SOE says they hear us when we give them feed back about the game... I dont beleave they do. I feel that they only hear the few that cry they cant do it and its to hard so they keep makeing things easyer. Look at the Shard gear.... o sorry rygor and thurg gear... cant call it shard gear since you DON'T need shards to craft it i guess. Blah another horable choice by SOE!</p></blockquote><p>I am sorry, but this is obviously just trolling, and like many others have said, this does all of nothing to make it easier for those who are undergeared to complete this content, DoV has dps check fights all over the place, both heroic and raid. People still need gear to meet dps checks, and basic survivablity checks, also the resists on jewlery still mean something, even if it may not seem like it most of the time.</p><p>The only thing this changes for people with less gear, is that they could be dragged along on harder content with less gear without being as of a liablity, instead they just don't contribute near as much as geared players do.</p></blockquote><p>How is that trolling? So you think 3 people who only do quests, pick up mercs, be able to roll through the same zones as people who grind 20+ hours a week to gear themselves up? </p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>slippery wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meridia@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And the guy back there saying there wasn't gating before TSO, there was. There wasn't hard modes, but you sure as hell wasn't taking a full Legendary raid into VP and clearing it.</p></blockquote><p>Actually, VP was cleared the first time through after everyone got to max level in quested gear. </p><p>Things are entirely different now though, there is still meaningful need of itemized progression. You still need the increased potential you gain from gear, as well as the crit to be able to progress. </p></blockquote><p>The first people clearing VP weren't the vast majority of people.</p><p>Your average raid couldn't just walk in there. Much like how your average raid won't be able to walk into Drunder and make it.</p>

[Iren]

<p>IM still in shock how many people give a CRAP , so if cm isnt the basis on if your allowed to raid or not , now its going to be HP  , all its doing is makign the crap zones easier and making farming doable by mages.</p><p>the peope crying about cm need to realise that gaining cm is NOT that big a deal ffs , you can do it if you wish to stay up all night.</p><p>ITS  A GAME   LET IT EVOLVE!</p>

[Acerix]

<p>Lets just hand everyone an "I win" key, ever consider that the fun factor for some is that some of the raid content is a challenge? IMO CM aspect added another level. Sorry to here some people were too slow or unskilled to figure it out I guess. </p>

[Irgun]

<p><cite>shots01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am esctatic ?? LOL that people like me, my lvl 90 fury, MIGHT actually be able to join a group now.  Her crit mig sucks.  I am not a grinder, I dont raid, I can't get groups because my crit mit is too low for most of the groups on the server.</p><p>I personally, can hug Sony to pieces for this grand piece of news.</p><p>Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and many cupcakes to you!</p></blockquote><p>Since it seems you dont do anything on your own to get better gear, you wont cut it. People will still recognize this, you`ll see.</p>

[hangingout77]

<p><cite>Acerix wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Lets just hand everyone an "I win" key, ever consider that the fun factor for some is that some of the raid content is a challenge? IMO CM aspect added another level. Sorry to here some people were too slow or unskilled to figure it out I guess. </p></blockquote><p>I think that was well spoken acerix and i totaly agree. Now try to convince SOE that CM is a good thing? Remember they listeon to us....?</p>

[Laenai]

<p><cite>S_M_I_T_E wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cyrim wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I disagree. This does not change much for casuals because I am not a believer that CM was the only thing stopping their raid forces from progressing. Casuals tend to fail simple scripts and tactics at a much greater rate. <span style="color: #ff00ff;">Taking away CM might increase the suvivability some, but it does not change ability to adapt to the situation, or ability to pre-cure, or ability to cover a specific curse, or ability to handle the clickies, or low crit % rates....the list goes on.</span></p><p>I'm sorry. I do not want to personally downgrade casuals. I commend them for their efforts. It's just they tend to fail because all the pieces to the puzzle can't be put together.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;">Ok, in part you are correct.</span></p><p>Casual raiders are not usually more than passive users of ACT.  I personally can only get mine to spit out some DPS to my clipboard after formatting it and have not forced myself to figure out how to make it talk to me. </p><p>I have no clue how to toggle through 'previous' encounters or post different formats on command (DPS parse, Heal parse, whatever).  What's on my static clipboard is all I've got and I usually thumb throught the pics, graphs, and analysis after I log out.  I've never had reason to care to force myself through ACT mastery. </p><p>The hardmode raiders that came on down from high to help my former casual EM guild used ACT 'speak mode' to tell them <em>with a lead</em> when to cure, <em>who </em>to cure, when to preward, whatever.  The HM player running their EM healer was always ahead of me on the cures because they were <em>reacting</em> to ACT <em>voice cues</em> while I was <em>reacting</em> to <em>visual game cues</em> in the player window when group members got dets. </p><p>I had to rehearse fights and get the 'feel' right so yes, Casuals won't go as far as those who've delved into ACT mastery to give them what appears to borderline on precognition.</p><p>ACT mastery is in part separates those who Solo All of PR and those who just do 3 mobs and move on because they can't DPS the deathtouch down before the deathtouch goes off.</p><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;">If ACT were to become EQ2 map easy in it's user interface then some of the differences between casuals and hardcore would probably shrink.</span></p></blockquote><p>You can do this with the mob casting bar and without ACT.</p>

[Finora]

<p><cite>Onorem wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jaxl wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Onorem wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Since I found out they have some special test feedback forum that isn't available to all and that's where they respond to feedback, I refuse to test a product I already pay to have work properly. Put it on test and patch it the next day. You don't want the feedback of the masses anyway.</p></blockquote><p> Uhh, they hardly ever post in the testers forum...</p></blockquote><p>Is that the special testers forum or the In Testing Feedback forum? It was explained to me one of the last times I tried to give test feedback that they can't be bothered to respond to everyone in test feedback. They do most of it through the sooper sekret forum. Either way, the In Testing Feedback forum is a waste of time, so I won't be pitching in to help test.</p></blockquote><p>Heh, you are more likely to see a dev response in the Testing Feedback forum everyone can see than in the testers only forum. If someone told you different they were mistaken lol. I think there's been maybe 3-4 dev posts/responses in the testers only forum since last Oct & at least one of them was a thankyou.</p><p>Testing feedback, they often do respond multiple times in the same thread.  The testers only forum is pretty much just like the server forums for every other server, just you had to be flagged to access it.</p>

[Morrias]

<p>I have to say I think this is good news for velious, though is altering SF and TSO really necessary? You should really just leave previous content alone and only do these changes for Velious unless you're actually willing to test TSO / SF and make sure it doesn't break anything.</p><p>I do however have one concern about crit mit being removed in Velious, it was great for slowing progression and making gear tier properly for raiders, and as far as I'm aware it's still working perfectly well in that aspect, I'm not sure completely nuking the stat is the way to go here, but removing it from group / solo gameplay.</p>

[Onorem]

<p><cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Onorem wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jaxl wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Onorem wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Since I found out they have some special test feedback forum that isn't available to all and that's where they respond to feedback, I refuse to test a product I already pay to have work properly. Put it on test and patch it the next day. You don't want the feedback of the masses anyway.</p></blockquote><p> Uhh, they hardly ever post in the testers forum...</p></blockquote><p>Is that the special testers forum or the In Testing Feedback forum? It was explained to me one of the last times I tried to give test feedback that they can't be bothered to respond to everyone in test feedback. They do most of it through the sooper sekret forum. Either way, the In Testing Feedback forum is a waste of time, so I won't be pitching in to help test.</p></blockquote><p>Heh, you are more likely to see a dev response in the Testing Feedback forum everyone can see than in the testers only forum. If someone told you different they were mistaken lol. I think there's been maybe 3-4 dev posts/responses in the testers only forum since last Oct & at least one of them was a thankyou.</p><p>Testing feedback, they often do respond multiple times in the same thread.  The testers only forum is pretty much just like the server forums for every other server, just you had to be flagged to access it.</p></blockquote><p>Fair enough. I seem to have gotten some bad information. Doesn't make me feel like they actually want feedback in any case.</p>

[Animia]

<p>I don't know if this is my first post, here on the "official" forums, or if it's a few more, than that...(I do not come here often, either way), but when I heard this "news" over chat today, I have to admit to being so p'd off, that I feel the need to reply to this BS news...</p><p>I am containing the language that I want to use, and will instead try "colorful" language instead, so bare with me...</p><p>First, and foremost...Instead of "fixing" content that ISN'T broken, why not fix all of the content that IS?  Instead of figuring out how to make this game easier (read: more like Wow), why not allow the players to either progress due to the time they have spent on their character, the plat they spent, etc...or allow them to fail, because they do not take the time to progress??? </p><p>I am not even in a hard-core guild, but on the raids I have attended (on easy mode), the crit mit was almost a way to see how skilled a player was...ie, have they done the zones to get the higher crit mit, have they taken to time to do the faction for the adornments, etc...?  Granted, as a casual raider, I know that gear does not necessarily mean the player is going to be an amazing player, and they could very well stink at the class they are on...But it was an indication.  It gave a round about way to determine who to group with and who not to group with.  Sounds biased, I know, but I'm not someone who enjoys beating my head against a mob (dying a lot), due to the stupidity of the group members, and dying consistently because someone power leveled a toon to 90, and didn't learn how to play their toon (those people are out there, and we've all grouped with them!).</p><p>Secondly, am I going to be reimbursed for my plat, that was spent towards addornments?  Or the shards, which took time to get?  Am I going to have the choice of getting rid of those adornments, now that the original purpose has been changed?</p><p>Thirdly, why do you cater to lazy players, who won't take the time to do all the things I have done?  I don't have a whole lot of time on the game, compared to some...and I have way more than, others...but in the time I have on the game, I am steadily working to improve my character(s)...I am not whining about crit mit, etc...I am out changing my character, and not trying to change the game to suit my toon.</p><p>Last but not Least...<strong><em>Why release content if you plan on changing it</em></strong>?  Didn't anyone in SoE know that for the update/expansion, things would need to be changed?  Did no one bother to think farther than the "wow, free 2 play is coming to eq2"?  I feel as though someone was standing there, while all this was being discussed in the background, saying to the crowds (of players) "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...look <em>over here</em>, we have mercanaries now!"  Why, on earth, even have a test server, if this sort of stuff can't be sorted out, there?</p>

[Kunaak]

<p>if this goes live - please just unattune and unadorn our gear like in the past, so we can have a clear choice with the new options on how we want to spec.</p><p>if crit mit isnt the necessary stat stat any more, there may not be any huge need to use HP adorns, especially for heroic content. in that case, I'd rather have the option of redoing the gear as I see fit, instead of just having crit mit changes to HP that isnt exactly helpful on some content.</p>

[Myrien]

<p><cite>Laenai@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What I want to know is:</p><p>What mechanic will SoE use to keep a PUG raid of Ry'Gorr wearers out of Drunder HM?</p><p>If crit mit is being removed, what mechanic will replace it? If its just more HP required by the crit mit adorns you're replacing, you might as well just keep crit mit in.</p><p>A compromise of it not being removed *entirely,* but a requirement only for HM zones with it still dropping on EM+ gear and available as adornments would be preferred.</p></blockquote><p>Even without the need for critical mitigation, people who aren't raid-geared won't survive in HM zones.  They lack the resists, crit chance, and raw HP needed to survive and succeed.</p>

[Peak]

<p>When can we expect this change to make it to live servers?</p>

[Te'ana]

<p><cite>Silius wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just to clarify some confusion.</p><ul><li>Crit mit as a mechanic is being removed. </li><li>NPC crit bonus was countered by crit mit and we are reducing crit bonus to 0 across the board. </li><li>Critical avoidance is staying around. Critical avoidance is an NPCs way of contesting your chance to critically hit them. </li><li><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>Replacing the adornments with HP is not to compensate for anything. Since the critical mitgiation stat is no longer useful we are converting to a stat that benefits <em>all players.</em></strong></span></li><li>The goal is for this change to not change the difficulty of the encounters. This is why we ask that you all take some time to log on to test once we push it there. We plan on having this on test by the weekend.</li></ul><p>Note: NPC crit bonus may be used in the future on a case by case bases and will be considered in the balance of the encounter so that crit mit is not required.</p><p>If you have any questions please do not hesitate to PM me.</p></blockquote><p>Y'all really need to rethink hit points as a substitute for all players. As a raid healer I don't go ANY damage, I just heal and cure, well mostly cure, which is another discussion. I would much rather have my shards and plat back to get something useful.</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>Morrias@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do however have one concern about crit mit being removed in Velious, it was great for slowing progression and making gear tier properly for raiders, and <strong>as far as I'm aware it's still working perfectly well in that aspect</strong>, I'm not sure completely nuking the stat is the way to go here, but removing it from group / solo gameplay.</p></blockquote><p>It worked fairly well for that in TSO, but the implementation has gotten worse and worse since then.  With Drunder, we're to the point that there's no reason <strong>not</strong> to nuke the stat, since it's only a detriment to the game.</p>

[dawy]

<p>Happy with this change ifor me tbh</p>

[Wengchun]

<p>For those of us that spent a ton of plat on adorns and reforging to make mechanics manageable the cookiecutter answer here should probobly just read " Sorry for the inconvenience and time spent but we have no intention of compensating our core players for their time and effort wasted by this change, heres some apperance armor or a house item for your trouble". I doubt this is anything more than an effort to allow more ftp people access to more difficult content to draw them into subscriptions. This would have been a relevant change months ago but now its basically just a kick in the teeth for alot of us.</p>

[Dooh]

<p><p>This change is great. Never liked it when yall added crit mit to begin with.</p> <p>Also I don't see why removable of crit mit has to = more HP's. We never had a butt load of HP's in the past and when you added crit mit we lost HP's.  Matter of fact, before you guys removed the HP stat all together, we still had less HP's. It wasn't in till you removed the HP stat that our HP's jumped up some.</p> <p>All these people whining about loss of shards is so laughable. Are you serious?</p> <p>You guys don't need to reimburse us with anything. Removing crit mit is good enough <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></p>

[S_M_I_T_E]

<p><cite>Animia@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1. I am not even in a hard-core guild, but on the raids I have attended (on easy mode), the crit mit was almost a way to see how skilled a player was...</p><p>2. ie, have they done the zones to get the higher crit mit, have they taken to time to do the faction for the adornments, etc...?  ...But it was an indication. </p><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;">3. It gave a round about way to determine who to group with and who not to group with.</span> </p><p>4. Sounds biased, I know, but I'm not someone who enjoys beating my head against a mob (dying a lot), due to the stupidity of the group members, and dying consistently because someone power leveled a toon to 90, and didn't learn how to play their toon (those people are out there, and we've all grouped with them!).</p></blockquote><p>I understand you don't post much but:</p><p>1. CM had nothing to do with player skill even in an EM guild early DOV.  I ran around in full PQ gear in EM x4 in the first two starter zones and only noticed 95 CM on Tormax.  That I refused to grind 10hrs a week raiding EM AND grind 10hrs a week for shards for Rygorr when I was getting EM stuff eventually said nothing of my skill.  By the time they nerfed Rygorr shard costs to nill I already was full EM minus the chest.  Skill and hours spent aren't necessarily related. </p><p>Who is more skilled? The player overgeared /facerolling a zone in record time or the player beating the zone with every trick in the book undergeared?  The later is challenge.  Overgeared people often confuse doing zones they're overgeared for faster for skill.  CM as a refusal to entry to make HM raid encounters take longer to access was valid but in EM and heroic content it was a terrible mechanic that is ineffective even when used as social elitism.</p><p>2. You can tell pretty quick by playing with someone whether they fit your group and people's priorities.  How many tanks do you know that have to have that pocket dirge and chanter so they can have easymode aggro and power becomes a non-issue?  I know more than a few.  My skill doesn't change other players' preset biases and thus we stay away from each other even if I happen to be on a character they aren't discriminating against class/gear wise.   </p><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;">3. Really, if you're 90 there's usually enough overpowered characters floating around that at least one member of the PUG group covers for the alt #17 who isn't up to your standards.  Whether it's the raid geared healer, the raid geared tank or the 200K DPS any one of those can do alot to make up for a PC that's marginally more effective than a merc which in Rygorr shouldn't happen under 260 AA. </span></p><p>4. Some of the best times come from being at the edge of success.  CM 1 shots weren't linear enough to give the illusion of a chance.  That someone spent shards to have an extra 49CM tagged on the end of their equipment makes them less effective in heroic content as more CM over the threshold did nothing for you whereas something juicier like pot or MA did.  I normally give people 20min of fail and then we pull out some bigger overgeared people for help if the situation calls for it.</p>

[Kunaak]

<p><cite>Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite></cite></p><blockquote></blockquote><p>Y'all really need to rethink hit points as a substitute for all players. As a raid healer I don't go ANY damage, I just heal and cure, well mostly cure, which is another discussion. I would much rather have my shards and plat back to get something useful.</p></blockquote><p>in one way I disagree with you - if you had crit mit for survivability - your gonna need HP for survivability.</p><p>thing is, how much....?</p>

[ObsidianNightmare]

<p><cite>Maergoth@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You paid shards for survivability functionality. Your adornment is still going to serve that purpose.</p><p>If you want something else, buy something else, but stop suckling the teat of pity.</p><p>It's just shards.</p></blockquote><p>LOL you're fracking rediculous! Yes I paid for crit mit adorns across 4 toons I actually raided with this expac and had to go through the pains of replacing them time and again when I got a new peice of gear for whichever toon I was on at the time.  These toons were participating in raids in 1st and 2nd ranked server guilds so the replacements also came fast.  I had been generous with my time and frustration to agree to change mains quite often and because I was a known good player, it was expected that I do well even if I only had 2 weeks time on the class. </p><p>This is a SOE mistake that has been 3 years in the making.  You think we should be confident with whatever stat they think would replace crit mit on these already purchased adorns?  That that stat would be relavant across the board for 25 classes?  The only stat that comes to mind would be HP. Ridulous amounts of HP is actually quite overrated when you have excellent healers in your group. </p><p>At the very least.. a trade in would be welcome.</p>

[donellan]

<p>as a tank, i have based all gear around cm. i'm not exactly sure why some people love to see it taken out of game and i'm sure that a game that is playable now will get messed up for months with hotfixes etc. to make up for this update. there will be some unexplainable glitches and we will wonder why some mobs are one shotting us.</p>

[donellan]

<p>adding to the previous post, everything will be "working as intended"</p>

[Raiwon]

<p>This is a really good announcement ,cause its just shows they are trying to fix itemization.</p><p>At this point theres no need for slowing the progression with cm,especialy if its destroying some of the more interesting aspects like allowing more customisation.</p><p>We only need back our multiple stats now, and this change could potentialy lead into restoring eq2 to its former glory.</p>

[Cyrim]

<p><cite>Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Silius wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just to clarify some confusion.</p><ul><li>Crit mit as a mechanic is being removed. </li><li>NPC crit bonus was countered by crit mit and we are reducing crit bonus to 0 across the board. </li><li>Critical avoidance is staying around. Critical avoidance is an NPCs way of contesting your chance to critically hit them. </li><li><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>Replacing the adornments with HP is not to compensate for anything. Since the critical mitgiation stat is no longer useful we are converting to a stat that benefits <em>all players.</em></strong></span></li><li>The goal is for this change to not change the difficulty of the encounters. This is why we ask that you all take some time to log on to test once we push it there. We plan on having this on test by the weekend.</li></ul><p>Note: NPC crit bonus may be used in the future on a case by case bases and will be considered in the balance of the encounter so that crit mit is not required.</p><p>If you have any questions please do not hesitate to PM me.</p></blockquote><p>Y'all really need to rethink hit points as a substitute for all players. As a raid healer I don't go ANY damage, I just heal and cure, well mostly cure, which is another discussion. I would much rather have my shards and plat back to get something useful.</p></blockquote><p>You should be casting damage spells in between AEs. That is a lot of deadspace wasted if all you're doing is spamming heals and cures.</p>

[ObsidianNightmare]

<p><cite>Cyrim wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Silius wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just to clarify some confusion.</p><ul><li>Crit mit as a mechanic is being removed. </li><li>NPC crit bonus was countered by crit mit and we are reducing crit bonus to 0 across the board. </li><li>Critical avoidance is staying around. Critical avoidance is an NPCs way of contesting your chance to critically hit them. </li><li><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>Replacing the adornments with HP is not to compensate for anything. Since the critical mitgiation stat is no longer useful we are converting to a stat that benefits <em>all players.</em></strong></span></li><li>The goal is for this change to not change the difficulty of the encounters. This is why we ask that you all take some time to log on to test once we push it there. We plan on having this on test by the weekend.</li></ul><p>Note: NPC crit bonus may be used in the future on a case by case bases and will be considered in the balance of the encounter so that crit mit is not required.</p><p>If you have any questions please do not hesitate to PM me.</p></blockquote><p>Y'all really need to rethink hit points as a substitute for all players. As a raid healer I don't go ANY damage, I just heal and cure, well mostly cure, which is another discussion. I would much rather have my shards and plat back to get something useful.</p></blockquote><p>You should be casting damage spells in between AEs. That is a lot of deadspace wasted if all you're doing is spamming heals and cures.</p></blockquote><p>+1. Plus who really specs for HP anymore.. HP is not an equal exchange.  HP is useful when you a hitting a zone for the first time an expac comes out with a boost to the difficulty.  After a few weeks.. its almost totally irrelevant save for a few key classes.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Meridia@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>thank you.</p><p>   hope to see gear checks in the future be based on performance ie. dps checks and "skill checks" like VS (rok) or something along those lines that rewards focus and timing.</p></blockquote><p>VS wasn't a skill check.</p><p>Monitoring your power isn't a skill. It's being able to see and read a percentage on your power bar.</p></blockquote><p> sure..   just looking at your power isn't skill you're right BUT top parsing that fight (like i did) while keeping your power in check and watching for detrimental effects along with adjusting so a possible fear would not leave you dead/out of range is indeed skill..</p> <p>  that's why people cried to have it nerfed because they DIDN'T posses said "skill"  and rightfully so since that mob was way to early in progression it should have been a VP encounter.</p> <p>edit.</p><p>  to add, if anyone thinks this is a bad move you should rethink the current state of the game.   one stat should not make or break any one player, that's boring.   with critt mitt gone it will open up for other less obvious criteria for what a player is..  not just a number or you can't join, sorry.</p>

[Gash]

<p><cite>Silius wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just to clarify some confusion.</p><ul><li>Replacing the adornments with HP is not to compensate for anything. Since the critical mitgiation stat is no longer useful we are converting to a stat that benefits all players.</li></ul></blockquote><p>lol grats necros?</p>

[donellan]

<p>giving us generic adornments across the board as compensation to me is the same to me as saying i place no value on your time and am now replacing current monetary subscription payment with trident layers gum</p>

[Segel]

<p>I really, really, really, really just want my shards back.  I don't want the HP.</p><p>Let me make that decision, please.</p>

[Elquinjena]

<p>First I would like to state that I am not a "raider" but I do enjoy being able to go on raids from time to time.</p><p>I worked my butt off to get Rygorr and then the adornments needed to get my crit mit up to a respectable level so I could servive when I went on a few raids. I did the best I could, on my own, to at least get my toon geared up enough that I would not be a big liability to a raid group that I found my self in. I was able to get a few higher end pieces as well so I was gearing up above Rygorr as I could . I Enjoy seeing new places, and in order to do so I had to get my Crit mit up. Fine I can learn a new system of what is needed NOW to join a raid ( not <span >Drunder so don't worry you people who think rygorr armored people suck even though I bet you wore some until you got better gear ). The thing that gets my hackles up is just throwing HP on a object I worked many hours to get. IF I had not HAD to get Crit mit adornments for my gear I would have gotten other ones, maybe to increase my dps, mulit attack etc. HP across the board is not a good answer. and to the person who says suck it up, its just shards...that's nice for you that shards rain every day on your toon to the point where they are nothing that you worry about or are concerned about when it comes to getting more shards. Let us have our shards and plat back to decide what we truly need on our current gear! OR allow us to trade them back for something for fitting for our classes and or playing styles. Give us back a small choice in this at least, in our game play.</span></p>

[Segel]

<p><cite>donellan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>giving us generic adornments across the board as compensation to me is the same to me as saying i place no value on your time and am now replacing current monetary subscription payment with trident layers gum</p></blockquote><p>Don, you are lolz</p><p>gesel</p>

[Deago]

<p><cite>donellan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>giving us generic adornments across the board as compensation to me is the same to me as saying i place no value on your time and am now replacing current monetary subscription payment with trident layers gum</p></blockquote><p>That is some pretty good chewing gum <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Brin]

<p>If people would actually use the Crit Mit Adorns none of this would be necessary. The issue is 90% of players focus on increasing their DPS by 1% rather than increasing their CM by 5%. Might as well play Go Fish, at least it takes some thought to win. This change will likely end my 12 year run with the Everquest series.</p><p>P.S. I guess in the mean time I can toss all my HM Gear that has less HPs, Mitigation, Multiattack and Potency than EM Drunder? Nice Work!</p>

[Animia]

<p>To Smite (I think it was), as I stated...it was an <em>indication</em>...not a rule.</p><p>Everything else you said, I either agree with, disagree with, or don't care enough to respond to, because the point of my thread was to let SoE know that this appeasments (sp?) to some people, makes the majority of players upset, because of the time, energy and plat spent on their toons, to better them.</p><p>I don't speak for anyone, other than myself, and this change upsets me because I worked hard for the crit mit that I have, and I don't want to lose something I had to work for, for something they will be giving me.  As a necromancer, I also fear that giving us hit point adorns, is going to end up with us having our lifeburn nerfed, and we will be back to being "broken" due to all the nerfing that will come from this "change"...</p><p>Again, just my personal opinion, and something written hastily, due to being p'd off...But my biggest complaint here is that since DoV was realeased, we've all been working towards crit mit, etc...and Now, you're going to take it away?  SoE didn't realize in the whole scheme of things that this would happen?  Again, "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...we have mercs now!" just doesn't cut it, and leaves a bad taste in my mouth.</p>

[KNINE]

<p>I would just like to see all this conversation SJ was saying he was hearing from the community.. I think he was hearing how messed up gear was.. so put in SC items.. how messed up encounters were.. so put in SC homes...now removing crit mit from game entirely..Watch for the next big SC items on the market lol...</p><p>would like to have links to all these said posts or converstaions as I do not think they exist and if they do I bet 99% of the people are the F2P peeps who want everything handed to them..</p>

[General_Info]

<p><cite>KNINE wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would just like to see all this conversation SJ was saying he was hearing from the community.. I think he was hearing how messed up gear was.. so put in SC items.. how messed up encounters were.. so put in SC homes...now removing crit mit from game entirely..Watch for the next big SC items on the market lol...</p><p>would like to have links to all these said posts or converstaions as I do not think they exist and if they do I bet 99% of the people are the F2P peeps who want everything handed to them..</p></blockquote><p>So you expect the devs to keep track of which posts they've read from the community and post them knowing full well they wont. also re-read what he said:</p><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We’ve listened to all of your conversations since Critical Mitigation was originally introduced. <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">T</span><span style="text-decoration: underline;">he dev team has extensively debated about it internally. <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Very extensively.)</span></span></strong> But ultimately, we decided that the right move for EQII is to remove Critical Mitigation entirely from the game. Critical Mitigation initially seemed to do what it was designed for, <span style="text-decoration: underline;">but it has always suffered from a complete lack of <strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">intuitiveness</span></strong> for players</span>, and it’s not a forward-extensible system. Ultimately, <strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">it doesn’t add any fun factor to the game. </span></strong></p></blockquote><p><em>*gasp* you mean they are doing things in a computer game to make it more FUN?</em></p><p>If people find having the CM system challenging and fun at the same time then they should seriously consider alternative options, CM removed, no challegening fun? hook up with people of like mind and work out between yourselves new ways of making content challeging such as equiping less then optimal gear so more damage is taken, spells and abilities take longer to cast etc, etc</p><p>there is nothing stopping you from making content challenging. If you can't be bothered to make soem content volentarily challeging to fit your own style of fun then why should the devs force that style on others?</p><p>If you want challenge make it challenging for yourself and your friend of likemind and leave the rest of us to our own devices.</p>

[random7]

<p>So because people aren't able to raid hard mode content in rygorr gear, it's time to remove critical mitigation from gear. Now folks with trashy gear will expect, nay demand that they be allowed to raid hm content and win also. Soon hm raid mobs will lose 30% of their hp, will start announcing what they will cast soon and there will be no adds. I have the feeling SWTOR is hitting them hard now.</p>

[Illmarr]

<p><cite>General_Info wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>KNINE wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would just like to see all this conversation SJ was saying he was hearing from the community.. I think he was hearing how messed up gear was.. so put in SC items.. how messed up encounters were.. so put in SC homes...now removing crit mit from game entirely..Watch for the next big SC items on the market lol...</p><p>would like to have links to all these said posts or converstaions as I do not think they exist and if they do I bet 99% of the people are the F2P peeps who want everything handed to them..</p></blockquote><p>So you expect the devs to keep track of which posts they've read from the community and post them knowing full well they wont. also re-read what he said:</p><p><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We’ve listened to all of your conversations since Critical Mitigation was originally introduced. <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">T</span><span style="text-decoration: underline;">he dev team has extensively debated about it internally. <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Very extensively.)</span></span></strong> But ultimately, we decided that the right move for EQII is to remove Critical Mitigation entirely from the game. Critical Mitigation initially seemed to do what it was designed for, <span style="text-decoration: underline;">but it has always suffered from a complete lack of <strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">intuitiveness</span></strong> for players</span>, and it’s not a forward-extensible system. Ultimately, <strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">it doesn’t add any fun factor to the game. </span></strong></p></blockquote><p><em>*gasp* you mean they are doing things in a computer game to make it more FUN?</em></p><p>If people find having the CM system challenging and fun at the same time then they should seriously consider alternative options, CM removed, no challegening fun? hook up with people of like mind and work out between yourselves new ways of making content challeging such as equiping less then optimal gear so more damage is taken, spells and abilities take longer to cast etc, etc</p><p>there is nothing stopping you from making content challenging. If you can't be bothered to make soem content volentarily challeging to fit your own style of fun then why should the devs force that style on others?</p><p>If you want challenge make it challenging for yourself and your friend of likemind and leave the rest of us to our own devices.</p></blockquote><p>I didn't realize there was a single monolithic definition of fun and everyone who doesn't adhere to the one you seem to set down from on High should just Get The F. Out. Thanks for enlightening me.</p><p>Hell, let's make all content doable at level one in a newbie tunic and rusty sword. That way while people are taking off their gear to create a challenge no one who doesn't want to do so will have to and still be able to claim "I win EQ2"</p><p>More bread and circuses for all</p>

[General_Info]

<p><cite>random7 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So because people aren't able to raid hard mode content in rygorr gear, it's time to remove critical mitigation from gear. Now folks with trashy gear will expect, nay demand that they be allowed to raid hm content and win also. Soon hm raid mobs will lose 30% of their hp, will start announcing what they will cast soon and there will be no adds. I have the feeling SWTOR is hitting them hard now.</p></blockquote><p>You sound like an alarmist and you seem to think that the devs are swayed easily.</p><p>It wouldn't surprise me if you are an embittered vet not paying SOE a dime and going on about how great TOR is to those that will listen.</p><p>If you want hard undergear yourself instead of running around in that top level stuff downgrade a bit, all CM did was add another barrier for new players coming in.</p><p><cite>Cisteros@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I didn't realize there was a single monolithic definition of fun and everyone who doesn't adhere to the one you seem to set down from on High should just Get The F. Out. Thanks for enlightening me.<p>Hell, let's make all content doable at level one in a newbie tunic and rusty sword. That way while people are taking off their gear to create a challenge no one who doesn't want to do so will have to and still be able to claim "I win EQ2"</p><p>More bread and circuses for all</p></blockquote><p>CM being added affects everyone everyone had to sacrifice something in that, now that it is being removed people can move back liek before or change the way they play so that they find the stuff they do fun.</p><p>CM was forced on everyone now that it is being removed those that liked the challenge can make up their own ways of making it challenging by nerfing themselves.</p><p>It's alright for people to be nerfed as long as it's SOE doing it? but suddenly if you have to nerf yourself while others choose not to that is somehow wrong?</p><p>If you want the challenge when your gear makes it easy then get less effective gear.</p><p><em></em><span ><em><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"></span></em></span></p>

[Mikai]

<p><cite>Wengchun wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>For those of us that spent a ton of plat on adorns and reforging to make mechanics manageable the cookiecutter answer here should probobly just read " Sorry for the inconvenience and time spent but we have no intention of compensating our core players for their time and effort wasted by this change, heres some apperance armor or a house item for your trouble". I doubt this is anything more than an effort to allow more ftp people access to more difficult content to draw them into subscriptions. This would have been a relevant change months ago but now its basically just a kick in the teeth for alot of us.</p></blockquote><p>What waste?  Those adornments served their purpose.  They allowed you to progress through zones in accordance with the mechanics in the game at the time.  When you got new gear and had to pay to replace adornments, did you complain about the "waste" and whine that you should get your adornments back?  When you had to get new gear each expansion, was that such a big slight on the dedicated raiding playerbase?  Every mechanics change has had people whining that they shouldn't have to do x when they just finished doing y to progress in current content.  This is just the same and HP, while not the most desired, is the nearest reasonable, across-the-board equivilent.</p><p>This change would not have been any different months ago either.  Crit Mit has been a required stat for several expansions.  It would have been a "kick in the teeth" any time after people started acquiring crit mit in order to progress.  It was something they tried, it had its run, and now has been determined to prove unnecessary and unwieldly.</p><p>And I don't buy that this will allow any joe schmoe in legendary gear to step foot in Drunder HM.  They specified that the goal is to not reduce the difficulty of the encounters.  There will still be dps checks, required jousts, and other scripts and mechanics to keep the challenge intact.  It's likely that we'll be going back to a system where resistances are the primary means of mitigating damage.  However they go about doing it, I'm sure there will be bugs to work out, but we won't be seeing noobs easily acquiring Hard Mode gear.</p>

[Necrotherian]

<p><cite>ObsidianNightmare wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I'm with those that say if this does go through, the right thing to do is to refund shards that were used to purchase crit mit adorns.</blockquote><p>I agree.  Immediately after those that gained plat via SLR refund it and after all the gear that was earned with those adornments on gets given to an NPC that should be created for just that purpose.</p><p>"But I earned all that stuff!" you might say.  To which I would reply that you got use out of the crit mit adorns and therefore are not entitled to a refund.</p><p>Do you get a refund on the gear that you stopped wearing once you got your current gear?  Nope.  You got use out of it, therefore you aren't entitled to a refund of it.</p><p>Should you get a refund on the adornments?  If you have not used the gear since you put the adornments on, then I would say you have a case.  If you have used it even once, then you shouldn't be entitled to a refund.</p><p>That's just my 2 plats worth.  Agree or disagree as you choose.</p>

[ObsidianNightmare]

<p><cite>Rotherian@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ObsidianNightmare wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I'm with those that say if this does go through, the right thing to do is to refund shards that were used to purchase crit mit adorns.</blockquote><p>I agree.  Immediately after those that gained plat via SLR refund it and after all the gear that was earned with those adornments on gets given to an NPC that should be created for just that purpose.</p><p>"But I earned all that stuff!" you might say.  To which I would reply that you got use out of the crit mit adorns and therefore are not entitled to a refund.</p><p>Do you get a refund on the gear that you stopped wearing once you got your current gear?  Nope.  You got use out of it, therefore you aren't entitled to a refund of it.</p><p>Should you get a refund on the adornments?  If you have not used the gear since you put the adornments on, then I would say you have a case.  If you have used it even once, then you shouldn't be entitled to a refund.</p><p>That's just my 2 plats worth.  Agree or disagree as you choose.</p></blockquote><p><strong>Take your hangups about SLR to another thread ..  You don't gain Shards without being present at the time of the kill. </strong> People coming in to buy the gear do not get a shard with their loot. </p><p>After 6 years of raiding, I've stopped commiting to 4-5 day a week schedules since it is no longer fun and worth the commitment to me.  Crit Mit was not the reason I stopped but maybe I might do a pickup or raid with a friends guild from time to time.  So, I still play this game and I do hope there is at least an exchange merchant available if not a refund of some kind so that I can obtain the adornments for the gear that I did earn which is still relavant to the rest of the game probably for some time to come.  Since I was forced to get the crit mit adorns to be relavant to the content it was meant for and since I wont be getting an influx of any new shards, I'd like to use them for other purposes, simple as that.  It's the right thing to do.</p>

[Illmarr]

<p><cite>General_Info wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite><a href="mailto:Cisteros@Crushbone">Cisteros@Crushbone</a> wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I didn't realize there was a single monolithic definition of fun and everyone who doesn't adhere to the one you seem to set down from on High should just Get The F. Out. Thanks for enlightening me.<p>Hell, let's make all content doable at level one in a newbie tunic and rusty sword. That way while people are taking off their gear to create a challenge no one who doesn't want to do so will have to and still be able to claim "I win EQ2"</p><p>More bread and circuses for all</p></blockquote><p>CM being added affects everyone everyone had to sacrifice something in that, now that it is being removed people can move back liek before or change the way they play so that they find the stuff they do fun.</p><p>CM was forced on everyone now that it is being removed those that liked the challenge can make up their own ways of making it challenging by nerfing themselves.</p><p>It's alright for people to be nerfed as long as it's SOE doing it? but suddenly if you have to nerf yourself while others choose not to that is somehow wrong?</p><p>If you want the challenge when your gear makes it easy then get less effective gear.</p><p><em></em><span><em></em></span></p></blockquote><p>The challenge isn't found in gimping yourself. If you don't get that the whole idea of fun and progression for a segment of the population is improving yourself to overcome the next challenge, then nothing I can say to you will make a bit of difference.</p><p>I wish you well</p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>Rotherian@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Do you get a refund on the gear that you stopped wearing once you got your current gear?  Nope.  You got use out of it, therefore you aren't entitled to a refund of it.<p>Should you get a refund on the adornments?  If you have not used the gear since you put the adornments on, then I would say you have a case.  If you have used it even once, then you shouldn't be entitled to a refund.</p><p>That's just my 2 plats worth.  Agree or disagree as you choose.</p></blockquote><p>Well there are those people that actually pay attention to what they are doing, where they are going and actually have 2 or more yellow and red crit mit adorns that they bought for the SPECIFIC purpose of putting it on gear that they might get in raid, so when they loot it they adorn it and don it right then, right there. I have (2) 5's and (2) 7's I may or may not need them now, at a minimum those should be allowed as trade-in, I didn't buy HP adorns, I don't need them, I don't know how much health that I would gain from the HP adorns they are going to replace them with. If I have a crit mit adorn I should be able to chose my replacement. This is going to go live soon, like next Tuesday or Thursday soon, he was absolutely rabid, foaming at the mouth when he made this post, it will not be tested thoroughly and there are going to be issues. It could go either way, and only affect certain mobs, say you are working HM Tormax, and Mikill gets bugged, unkillable by this, zone broken and you miss 2 maybe 3 or more days of being able to work on King T. The alternate could also happen, it could make some mobs trivially easy, casuing them to yank the mob from the game because it is not behaving as intended, same scenario.</p><p>I'ts coming, there is no doubt about that, and I'm sure for a lot of people the opinion is "it can't get here soon enough" but they need to let this have more than a week on test, and it needs to be seriously QA'd and then QA'd again before being shoved onto the live servers.</p>

[Halo of G4]

<p>Remember when Crit Mit wasn't part of the game? Remember how great that was?</p><p>I remember when TSO was out, a lot of people didn't like the idea, but it seemed fair as a way to upgrade from RoK tier gear. Well tbh it got out of hand, and a lot and a LOT of people didn't like the idea altogether.  I for one can't wait for the removal of Crit mit.</p>

[General_Info]

<p><cite>Cisteros@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The challenge isn't found in gimping yourself. If you don't get that the whole idea of fun and progression for a segment of the population is improving yourself to overcome the next challenge, then nothing I can say to you will make a bit of difference.<p>I wish you well</p></blockquote><p>I understand the idea of advancement why do you think we level? if CM was in from the very start of the game i might agree with you however it wasn't and keeping it around just makes it harder for newer player to get rolling.</p><p>Progression always ends. It doesn't matter how long you play you'll eventually reach the end 'top gear' CM was just a tagged on part to up the difficulty without thinking of the consequences for new people.</p>

[Armawk]

<p><cite>Cisteros@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong><em>T</em></strong>he challenge isn't found in gimping yourself. If you don't get that the whole idea of fun and progression for a segment of the population is improving yourself to overcome the next challenge, then nothing I can say to you will make a bit of difference.</p><p>I wish you well</p></blockquote><p>I agree completely that progression and gear/stat-improvement as an aim for players is a major form of fun for people. I however concur with those who say that crit mit was a complete disaster as a mechanism and we are all, long term should there be one, better off without it. Its silly and counterintuitive.. its maths for maths sake with no sense of being a mechanism that makes sense in the world.</p>

[Alenna]

<p><cite>Brin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If people would actually use the Crit Mit Adorns none of this would be necessary. The issue is 90% of players focus on increasing their DPS by 1% rather than increasing their CM by 5%. Might as well play Go Fish, at least it takes some thought to win. This change will likely end my 12 year run with the Everquest series.</p><p>P.S. I guess in the mean time I can toss all my HM Gear that has less HPs, Mitigation, Multiattack and Potency than EM Drunder? Nice Work!</p></blockquote><p>I am using crit mit and resent the fact that I can't take the time to think about what adorns will help me to maximise my dps because of being <strong>forced</strong> to buy adorns that only give you 5% making it neccesary to put them on  ALL the armour I get. I am tired of struggling to keep up with Bards and such as a Ranger when I should be up there near the top all becuase of the stupid mechanic of having to waste adornment spots to survive when I could be THINKING about which adorns would help maximize my dps and how much damage I do.  </p><p>you are right about one thing this is Nice Work on thier part.</p>

[Charmaine_Squishybritchez]

<p>when crit mit came on the scene it changed the whole dynamic of the game, but only for that expansion and higher.... and I was good with it. Then we went from multi-stat to primary stat, which to be honest, only affected game content with THAT expansion and higher... ok, got it. Then we needed REDICULOUS amounts of crit mit to take a single aoe in raid, so we worked at it and progressed. Now that's going away and we will be GIVEN a stat in its place. Uncool SJ. Take the CM, fine. Give whatever stat you want in its place, but only to replace what was originally on the armor. If we put a CM adornment on the armor, its because it was nessasary. my suggestion is to unadorn our yellow and red CM jewels and put a red or yellow adornment token in our currency tab, redeemable at your friendly neighborhood adornment merchant for a red or yellow of our choice. this negates the need for extra npcs and appeases the masses. Just whatever you do, have it affect ALL the content. In other words, make the progression of gear and mobs even from noob land all the way through to drunder x4 and beyond. Bring back the game we all fell in love with and screw the gimme gimmies. If we wanted the score to be fun to fun, we would be playing WoW. Thanks for giving me an open forum to rant!</p>

[garchy]

<p>i think its a carebear idea, i i dont rember being invted to thes " talks " you guys had and thers about 1000 other ppl that wernt invited eather. if you dint like the idea about cm why did you guys put it in it. now all of a suden 3 years later you whant to remove it. what about the ppl that work ther butt off to get it. its a DUM idea and if ppl are worryed about cm go play WoW. so ther now you heard my side. but it looks like you guys dont care about the ppl that whant cm in the game so stop lieing. its what the carebears whant and the little girls.</p>

[apwyork]

<p><cite>garchy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i think its a carebear idea, i i dont rember being invted to thes " talks " you guys had and thers about 1000 other ppl that wernt invited eather. if you dint like the idea about cm why did you guys put it in it. now all of a suden 3 years later you whant to remove it. what about the ppl that work ther butt off to get it. its a DUM idea and if ppl are worryed about cm go play WoW. so ther now you heard my side. but it looks like you guys dont care about the ppl that whant cm in the game so stop lieing. its what the carebears whant and the little girls.</p></blockquote><p>Pretty much once you used the term "carebear" you've already convinced 98% of the people that nothing you say is important.</p><p>This is another attempt to enable players to partake in more of the end-game content.  What most of the ones claiming this idea sucks don't realize is that a large number of players who would like to do raid content are not able to simply because they can't get the gear it takes.  Unless a raid is willing to run the earlier instances to gear up new raiders, they have no method to do so unless they flat out buy loot rights and that defeats the whole "earn the gear" arguement.</p>

[FreaklyCreak]

<p>THE SKY IS FALLING....</p><p>Wait, there is still Critical Avoidance on mobs to break the sky's fall!</p>

[SOE-MOD-04]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=500111&post_id=5710989" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50011...post_id=5710989</a> Removed for trolling and profanity

[bks6721]

<p><cite>Cisteros@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>General_Info wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite><a href="mailto:Cisteros@Crushbone">Cisteros@Crushbone</a> wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I didn't realize there was a single monolithic definition of fun and everyone who doesn't adhere to the one you seem to set down from on High should just Get The F. Out. Thanks for enlightening me.<p>Hell, let's make all content doable at level one in a newbie tunic and rusty sword. That way while people are taking off their gear to create a challenge no one who doesn't want to do so will have to and still be able to claim "I win EQ2"</p><p>More bread and circuses for all</p></blockquote><p>CM being added affects everyone everyone had to sacrifice something in that, now that it is being removed people can move back liek before or change the way they play so that they find the stuff they do fun.</p><p>CM was forced on everyone now that it is being removed those that liked the challenge can make up their own ways of making it challenging by nerfing themselves.</p><p>It's alright for people to be nerfed as long as it's SOE doing it? but suddenly if you have to nerf yourself while others choose not to that is somehow wrong?</p><p>If you want the challenge when your gear makes it easy then get less effective gear.</p><p><em></em><span><em></em></span></p></blockquote><p>The challenge isn't found in gimping yourself. If you don't get that the whole idea of fun and progression for a segment of the population is improving yourself to overcome the next challenge, then nothing I can say to you will make a bit of difference.</p><p>I wish you well</p></blockquote><p>that segment you refer to is not large enough to sustain the game.  its really that simple.</p>

[bks6721]

<p><cite>garchy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i think its a carebear idea, i i dont rember being invted to thes " talks " you guys had and thers about 1000 other ppl that wernt invited eather. if you dint like the idea about cm why did you guys put it in it. now all of a suden 3 years later you whant to remove it. what about the ppl that work ther butt off to get it. its a DUM idea and if ppl are worryed about cm go play WoW. so ther now you heard my side. but it looks like you guys dont care about the ppl that whant cm in the game so stop lieing. its what the carebears whant and the little girls.</p></blockquote><p>what if the people that 'worked their butt off' to get them was only 25% of the population?  Perhaps SOE feels justified in listening to the other 75% occasionally.</p><p>In case you aren't aware.. Crit Chance and Multi Attack are probably next.  They have both gone so far over the top that something will need to be done before the next level cap increase.</p>

[Vortix]

<p>So, are you going to let Elements of War gear easily be better than Challenge raid gear? If you intend to remove the Critical Mitigation, then ALL the gear with that stat needs to be adjusted. Don't push this patch on us in 2 weeks ... wait until you are REALLY ready!</p><p>My suggestion: DON'T REMOVE CRIT MIT! We like the progression! It gives us a reason to play and try harder! Lowering the values by 10% would have been nice, but the values are challenging the way they are, as they should be. It's called CHALLENGE for a reason.</p>

[Ortahr]

<p>I am sure SJ and his team spend more then 10 minutes to discuss this,but in my guild the question arised if another itemisation was needed.</p><p>Will there be done something about spells/combat arts that raise Critical mitigation in the group, or for a individual player ? (for example the 15% group buf for the berserker.),or will this be turned into a hp buff ?</p><p>The average consensus was that removing the Critical Mitigation would be an 'interesting' move though.</p><p>Ortahr.</p>

[avsmw]

<p>I absolutely fail to see, why this change is deemed necessary. Gearing up a recruit to give him enough CM for HM Drunder takes like a week or so even for a mediocre raid - everyone clears original HM zones save for maybe Statue, so this is hardly an argument. You know, at DoW launch no one had enough CM to raid hard zones, so people started with easy, geared up, went to hard etc. It's pretty much like it's supposed to be - you need to work on your progress, like in real life. They don't teach higher mathematics at school, because kids need to be taught algebra first, and if some people find even that too hard - well, it's something they should not bother themselves with. Same with raids - I don't see, why people who don't even bother to raid easy must be instantly allowed to kill mobs in hard zones, if they didn't put any effort into their raiding. The argument considering the rebalancing of existing gear is very valid, too. HM EoW pants, for example, were better DPS-wise for a mage, but people mostly chose to go with HM pants with 60 CM, since it was needed for HM Drunder. So, the raid HM gear was better than group gear for raiding, and it was well justified. Now what? Raid stuff instantly becomes worse? And what of CM on already existing gear? EM torso had 44 CM; people were forced to defeat the statue, since the HM torso had 60, and it made a difference. Now what? To the hell with statue - the gain form the HM piece is now negligible compared to easy. Who would bother to fight a mob that poses even a slightest challenge, if the gear is only slightly better, and that mob doesn't block further progression?</p><p>Personally, I can see this bringing in a lot of trouble. All gear will need to be rebalanced, all encounters will neeed to be rebalanced, and even if this gets done perfectly, there is still a question - why bother??? If better gear will have more HP, and "naked" raiders will still die to one-shot AE's in HM zones - what is the purpose of the change rather than breaking something that is currently working, then spend a lot of time to get things fixed? To make an impression of hard working? The game could be improved in many other aspects - work on something that could be made better instead of "fixing" something that you deliberately broke before. And if gear stops making a difference, and every recently capped char in RyGorr stuff will be able to survive in HM Drunder - well, you know, EQ2 was a great game, but if you intend to kill it completely, so be it. This is not the only MMO on market, as you might know.</p>

[-Arctura-]

<p><span style="font-size: medium; color: #ffcc99;"><span style="color: #cc99ff;">Please give us a free <span style="font-size: large; color: #ff0000;">opt-in</span> Entire-Gear <strong>Auto-Unadorn</strong> and <strong>Auto-Unattune</strong> one-time option for all gear on the character in all bags and banks etc.</span></span></p><p>Many of us have invested time and money in something that is now removed, and the best solution for all parties would be the ability to redecide how to Re-Gear and Re-adorn</p><p>Many of us have secondary sets of gear in our bags and banks, so a 'currently equipped only' unadorn unattune would very likely not help.</p><p>This is the best way to please everyone, especially if it is OPT-IN.</p>

[Blackpheonix]

<p>this sucks i just droped 45p on CM red adorns i would much rather have a refund then HP points especially as a conj -.-</p>

[Glimmsterviryan]

<p>/Agrees with:</p><p><cite>-Arctura- wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium; color: #ffcc99;"><span style="color: #cc99ff;">Please give us another free <span style="font-size: large; color: #ff0000;">opt-in</span> Entire-Gear <strong>Auto-Unadorn</strong> and <strong>Auto-Unattune</strong> one-time option for all gear on the character in all bags and banks etc.</span></span></p></blockquote>

[Novusod]

<p>I understand why crit mit is being removed and that is to ungate content for more casual players but this is an extreme solution that will cause other problems. Pretty much all easy mode raid gear is now worthless because without the crit mit some instance gear is actually better. This would make hard modes the new starting point for raiders. Also it is a slap in the face to anyone who actually put in the work to get that 300+ crit mit.</p><p>The real solution is the crit mit curve should be flattened. Hard modes and Drunder raids require too much crit mit. The solution is to fix those zones not remove crit mit from the game. Knock 50 crit mit off those zones and I think it would be good. This way raids can kill Tormax hard mode with 200 crit mit and do drunder hard mode with 220 crit mit. It probably would be a good idea to remove crit mit from all heroic instances but raids need something to hold progression to.</p>