The Point of Scout Classes?

[FrederickIII]

<p>This is probably a dumb question, but what exactly is the role of the scout in groups?</p><p> I do not mean to insult anyone; this is an honest question.</p><p>I have barely more than a passing knowledge of game mechanics [choosing alternate advancement points is a nightmare!].</p><p>Fighters act as tanks - drawing enemies from priests and mages.</p><p>Priests are pretty self-explanatory - healears.</p><p>Mages are the heavy-hitters that deal out the bulk of the damage.</p><p>As for Scouts, well, that's the point of this topic. I don't know.</p><p>I know that the different subclasses have a variation  of advantages and disadvantages - for example, that Clerics (Templar and Inquisitor) are heavy-armored priests and can take more damage than the light-armored Druids  (Warden and Fury).</p><p>I even understand the basic differences betweens Scouts - just not how the whole Scout class group comes into play.</p><p>The only thing I've come up with (from playing a dirge once) is that scouts can have a pretty strong initial sneak attack - but why couldn't you just have a wizard nuke the heroic (or whatever) and then send the fighter in for a second attack?</p><p>Though my question was aimed more at group performance, I thought that maybe the scout is simply designed to be a solo character. My dirge was a pretty good at soloing. However, I've usually found that mages are far easier to play - especially summoners.</p><p> Please be delicate with the flames; I honestly want to know.</p><p>EDIT: I looked around the forum a bit and now I'm even more confused. What the crap are beast lords?! Man, my vacation from everquest2 has left me in the dust.  They seem pretty good and they're scouts - still don't know what their role is though.</p>

[Neiloch]

<p>DPS and utility.</p><p>It used to be rogues (brigand/swash) could arrange their skills and equipment to tank in a pinch, but that has fallen far to the wayside.</p><p>The simplest way I can explain the scouts without going into massive detail (and probably leaving out some key things in the process and without addressing balance concerns) is this:</p><p>Predator - Ranger and Assasin - High 'tier 1' DPS. Heaviest DPS of the scouts and can generally compete with any of the hardest hitting mages.</p><p>Rogues - Swash and Brigand - 'good' DPS but trade some of it for utility one of which is very useful debuffs.</p><p>Bard - Dirge and Troubador - Buffs/utility. Lots and lots of buffs. Pretty much the best buffs overall, imo.</p><p>Beastlords are relatively new. they are basically a DPS/utility pet class. Until they get settled in and more intgrated into the day to day gameplay I'm afraid anything I do mention of them will only be temporary at best.</p><p>Also I feel compelled to point out your understanding of the other classes you mentioned appear to be only slightly better than the ones you have of scouts, if at all. Until you do a lot of research or play good amount of classes to <em>at least</em> 50 you won't know much.</p>

[FrederickIII]

<p>Oh, and why did you feel "compelled"? Could you not just answer the question without insulting me in the process?</p>

[Trynt]

<p>It's not insulting for someone to say that your premises are in question, especially after he provided you with an accurate answer to your basic question.  Should just thank him, and move on.</p>

[HBP]

<p><cite>FrederickIII wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh, and why did you feel "compelled"? Could you not just answer the question without insulting me in the process?</p></blockquote><p>He answered your question....man up and move on..../rolleyes</p>

[Neiloch]

<p><cite>FrederickIII wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh, and why did you feel "compelled"? Could you not just answer the question without insulting me in the process?</p></blockquote><p>I apologize, that was not meant as an insult. Since you rightly admitted your ignorance in search for more knowledge I assumed you would be open to extra advice that could be of more use in curing your misconceptions. Apparently I was wrong. For that I am sorry.</p><p>In the future I will endeavor to only to provide knowledge you specifically request and allow any other misconceptions, false assumptions or generally incorrect information you voice to pass without incident or response. I am sorry if I have robbed you the experience of learning the information I provided the hard way;with strife and frustration.</p><p>I hope this reply, in some small way, makes up for the inconvenience I have tried to prevent you from encountering and does not discourage you from asking for help again in the future and then taking offense from said help.</p><p>Kindest Regards,</p><p>      The guy who tried to help you even though he was in no way obligated to.</p>

[WanyenII]

<p><cite>FrederickIII wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is probably a dumb question, but what exactly is the role of the scout in groups?</p><p> I do not mean to insult anyone; this is an honest question.</p><p>I have barely more than a passing knowledge of game mechanics [choosing alternate advancement points is a nightmare!].</p><p>Fighters act as tanks - drawing enemies from priests and mages.</p><p>Priests are pretty self-explanatory - healears.</p><p>Mages are the heavy-hitters that deal out the bulk of the damage.</p><p>As for Scouts, well, that's the point of this topic. I don't know.</p><p>I know that the different subclasses have a variation  of advantages and disadvantages - for example, that Clerics (Templar and Inquisitor) are heavy-armored priests and can take more damage than the light-armored Druids  (Warden and Fury).</p><p>I even understand the basic differences betweens Scouts - just not how the whole Scout class group comes into play.</p><p>The only thing I've come up with (from playing a dirge once) is that scouts can have a pretty strong initial sneak attack - but why couldn't you just have a wizard nuke the heroic (or whatever) and then send the fighter in for a second attack?</p><p>Though my question was aimed more at group performance, I thought that maybe the scout is simply designed to be a solo character. My dirge was a pretty good at soloing. However, I've usually found that mages are far easier to play - especially summoners.</p><p> Please be delicate with the flames; I honestly want to know.</p><p>EDIT: I looked around the forum a bit and now I'm even more confused. What the crap are beast lords?! Man, my vacation from everquest2 has left me in the dust.  They seem pretty good and they're scouts - still don't know what their role is though.</p></blockquote><p>Mages and scouts are often interchangable. </p><p>Generally the primary role of the scout or mage is heavy hitting DPS.  That is the primary role of any scout or mage.  Of course it's not a linear sliding scale or whatever, but the more utility a class potentially offers in a secondary or tertiary role, the greater the sacrifice to the primary role.  This is again widely, but not always true whether scout, mage, fighter, or priest:</p><p>A 'pure priest' is often considered the strongest healer, but situationally, because they lack adequate strengths in secondary or tertiary roles, they may not be the best fit for a situation, or even in general.  The same is more or less true of mages and scouts. </p><p>A conjurer has a secondary role as a tank via the pet, despite the fact that situationally, or generally depending on how its used, it may not work well.  The lack of general strength in this secondary role is still a strength to the conjurer though, because the pet is often significant added DPS on it's own via it's controlling master, so it ends of being more or less a wash, with some slight flexability.</p><p>A troubador is a scout, yet its regen and other utility is often considered quite powerful on it's own, that the troub often finds themselves not as innately capable in their primary role as an assassin might be in a single mob, shorter fight. </p><p>The thing that is essentially the general difference between the DPS a mage does versus the DPS a scout does is range.  Like many things, even here there are exceptions.  For instance a ranger, is an arrow flinging mofo.  I don't have a lot of first-hand experience with mages, but I would imagine there is even some similar exception among that group, where a class or more has a set of tools to at least work well within melee range, to some measurabe degree, better than most other mages.  This won't come in to play often though, so those tools probably rarely get exercised.</p><p>They are both generally limited by power, and the nature of the encounters/fights.  The mobs are generally debuffed equivalentally, even though not necessarily equally.   Heat damage or piercing damage, the mob will try to resist it.  The melee/physical damage resistance system is on the surface certainly more complex than the elemental resistance system, but they serve essentially the same purpose.</p><p>It probably won't make a lot of sense but, scouts are like the fighter jets.  They carry bombs, are very tactical changable on the fly, have some self-defense, but they have to stay close to home.   Mages are somewhat like bombers in that they can effectively circle the globe with a huge payload, but aren't very agile if faced with tactical challenges (drastic change in the enroute mission) and have comparatively little self-defense especially in air-to-air situatoins.</p>

[Odys]

<p>Just adding something about bards.</p><p>Bards are scouts that bring utility, their job is not only to do damage but also to use short duration buf on other players.As example dirges usually have the duty to ressurect players and to remove the ressurection sickness.</p><p>I also tend to think that scouts are more intensive to play due to positonning issues, timing of the auto attack and so on.</p><p>A pure wizard is probably quite not fun to play in a raid or a good group -- i agree that this is subjective -- , and  necromancer will be much more (he has fantastic ressurection, must manage his pet ...). I love my coercer solo or in group but hate him in raids. In raid i simply cycle my spells and i throw manaflow and from time to time a short duration buff, exeptionnaly i may ward someone with my mana or enforce mobs to target a tank (it's rare). Solo a battle mage is quite entertaining.</p><p>So during progression a scout (especially a dirge) will have a more intense gameplay than most mages, the counterpart is that during farming scouts often are half afk since their auto-attack is enough <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Chronus1]

Except, Gorock, progression these days is more about meeting a dps check. If people are dieng enough to properly work the dirges your probably going to heal the mob too much. Also you will be worked as either enchanter on certain fights like hm eireen.

[Vifarc]

<p>I'm the sole tank anti-raid Ranger of Norrath <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /></p><p><a href="http://beetny.com/eq2aa/?GU62;g02s1aa21aa21@44aa1aa21@4112s@155@255555@255 5555555111@255@25121o5@15@15@252@25@35@155155@35@1 131e@1a@18@1a@1aa@2140a55" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://beetny.com/eq2aa/?GU62;g02s1...@1a@1aa@2140a55</a></p>

[Griffildur]

<p><cite>FrederickIII wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh, and why did you feel "compelled"? Could you not just answer the question without insulting me in the process?</p></blockquote><p>wow, just wow, the man answers your questions and instead of saying thank you, you attack him ?</p><p>Me thinks you should apologise to him because he's quite right in what he says.</p>

[Cocytus]

<p><cite>Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>DPS and utility.</p><p>It used to be rogues (brigand/swash) <strong>could arrange their skills and equipment to tank in a pinch, but that has fallen far to the wayside.</strong></p><p>The simplest way I can explain the scouts without going into massive detail (and probably leaving out some key things in the process and without addressing balance concerns) is this:</p><p>Predator - Ranger and Assasin - High 'tier 1' DPS. Heaviest DPS of the scouts and can generally compete with any of the hardest hitting mages.</p><p>Rogues - Swash and Brigand - 'good' DPS but trade some of it for utility one of which is very useful debuffs.</p><p>Bard - Dirge and Troubador - Buffs/utility. Lots and lots of buffs. Pretty much the best buffs overall, imo.</p><p>Beastlords are relatively new. they are basically a DPS/utility pet class. Until they get settled in and more intgrated into the day to day gameplay I'm afraid anything I do mention of them will only be temporary at best.</p><p>Also I feel compelled to point out your understanding of the other classes you mentioned appear to be only slightly better than the ones you have of scouts, if at all. Until you do a lot of research or play good amount of classes to <em>at least</em> 50 you won't know much.</p></blockquote><p>Bold is still doable. I raid tank on some mobs. Yes, hard mode. Yes, it's uncommon - fact still remaining. The rest is spot on.</p>

[Zyek]

<p>Make it simple...</p><p>Scouts = short range dps classes (exception is ranger.. ranger are only good to get killed so the raid can get good loot - aka Scraficial Lambs) :p</p><p>Mages = long range dps classes</p><p>plain an simple.</p>

[Nrgy]

<p>This thread should have died last month, it's as pointless now as it was then.</p>

[Brigh]

<p><cite>Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>FrederickIII wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Oh, and why did you feel "compelled"? Could you not just answer the question without insulting me in the process?</p></blockquote><p>I apologize, that was not meant as an insult. Since you rightly admitted your ignorance in search for more knowledge I assumed you would be open to extra advice that could be of more use in curing your misconceptions. Apparently I was wrong. For that I am sorry.</p><p>In the future I will endeavor to only to provide knowledge you specifically request and allow any other misconceptions, false assumptions or generally incorrect information you voice to pass without incident or response. I am sorry if I have robbed you the experience of learning the information I provided the hard way;with strife and frustration.</p><p>I hope this reply, in some small way, makes up for the inconvenience I have tried to prevent you from encountering and does not discourage you from asking for help again in the future and then taking offense from said help.</p><p>Kindest Regards,</p><p>      The guy who tried to help you even though he was in no way obligated to.</p></blockquote><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8vA0ANTUM0">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8vA0ANTUM0</a></p>