No more incentive to play healers ? [Archive]

Odys

12-29-2011, 02:40 PM

I wonder if people will keep leveling healers. (disclaimer this is not about itemisation or balance at level 90, this is only about 1-89 and especially for new players experience of the game).Historically, there were two incentive to play a healer :<ul><li> easy grouping and</li><li>possibility to take down ^^^ (inqui but also warden and kiting furies) better/safer than most classes.</li></ul>Note that many classes could solo heroics (with mc gear and experts) even during ROK days. But priests were doing quite well in that category, and they did it more steadily. I actually saw many time mage/scout getting literally one shot because something went wrong : failed a stun, got rooted with potion on timer, etc ...So the tradeoff was speed/safety. New gear, mad dps mod on items better mitigation, higher dps made soloing heroic trivial for today scouts. Yesterday a dps class engaging a (blue white, yellow) ^^^ was likely to die. May be he would bring the opponent to 10%, may be he would be lucky and win with 60% hp left. Today, with the increased power of players, the odds have been radically changed. The scout will win with at least 50% left (and may be 90%).In a sense the speed/safety tradeoff is gone, this remove incentive 2. With healbots such as stomper (that also bring a group wide buf that no player can bring before 80 -- and for that he needs raid gear --) nobody need a healer till 80 (ad probably even 90) to run instances. Note that stomper is just a part of the problem since anyway lot of classes could solo most heroic content. My paladin levelled slowly while soloing almost all the 1-80 heroic content while it was yellow/white. But he had cure and self heals.Stomper brings exaclty what any group needs : very moderate healing (since anything die within 3 seconds) and curing.This quite totally remove the incentive to recruit a healer.So incentive 1 is gone.Note that almost the same analysis could be applied to tanks, but first people love to be the TANK, second tanks do get dps mod on their items while leveling and healers do not. This mean that tank dps scales, moreover tank will benefit from stomper(s).A possible solution is to raise a bit the dps of the dps mercenaries. What we need is scout/stomper or tank/stomper and priest/dirge merc or priest/swash merc to have low dps discrepancy. Currently the dirge is not too bad but his dps could be raised.Another possibility would be put as much dps mod on priest item as on tank/scout one. Last mages should get more spell haste to scale as much as scout in the low levels.

Banditman

12-29-2011, 03:04 PM

Are you really going to drag this arguement into ANOTHER thread? Really?

Onorem

12-29-2011, 03:09 PM

The game is getting easier and easier with early itemization. Healers (and tanks that have heals) still are more powerful for the 1-89 content solo. There's your incentive. Is my beastlord overpowered? Yep...they'll get around to fixing that once enough people have bought AoD and things from the marketplace to level them faster.Are healers still worth playing? That's just a silly question that really didn't need another basically worthless thread started to ask.

shots01

12-29-2011, 03:15 PM

1. What the heck is a "stomper"? I don't use mercenaries nor do I intend to.2. I don't find this game easy at all. I leveled my fury alot solo, but I also had a lot of help in the mid 70s to 88. 88 to 90 I did with a friend and we ran a ton of quests.3. Healers are an issue because 90 groups only want a specific healer type. Rarely do I see groups asking for a fury. They either want wardens or inquisitors.

Nayawk

12-29-2011, 03:40 PM

"Historically, there were two incentive to play a healer"?I think the whole OP argument falls down right there. There are alot more than two reason to play a healer, from the purely cosmetic "oh they have a cute tiger pet" to the "I like the pressure of being a key part of any group" and a whole range inbetween.As for the mercs? I've run with a healer merc in a group and they are broken and will never replace a real healer. The situation I see most healer mercs used? Solo players running around with a healer merc doing overland solo quests just to make it that much easier. If the mercs weren't there don't fool yourself into thinking that solo player would be looking for a real player to replace the bot.

daalberith

12-29-2011, 03:42 PM

Shaman kick *** and are fun for me. That's the only incentive I need to play them. There's always room for improvement with the classes, but I don't really care about all of that for the most part. I will say that I think the main problem is not the healer classes themselves or how they compare to other archetypes so much as the players and how they choose to percieve them, though.

Odys

12-29-2011, 03:55 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Are you really going to drag this arguement into ANOTHER thread? Really?</blockquote>Yeap i have several locked toon to test low level content, and since i touched a t1 dps with stomper i will never ever enjoy again my inquisitor. He used to be my most powerfull toon, now he is boring and slow to play.And honestly he has lot of aas and his certainly the funnier healer to play -- with furies which are totally differents).How do you expect people to play healers with almost 0% casting speed, 0 dps mod.I don't even want to think about how bad it must be for a templar or a defiler.And clearly i would never level a mystic today, when mine grew up we all had 0 everywhere. Now she would got a bit of potency while scout/figthers got their melee dps doubled while getting a cure bot.I m not pesonnaly involved, i do not plan to level any healer and i will enjoy the overpowered beastlord. I m just concerned the young priest seeing scouts one shooting anything while they work 3-5 times longer to kill mobs. When they will understand that they won't ever get a group and that the little scout is completely safe with stomper taking care they will simply give up. I also wonder their reaction when a group will prefer stomper (cause he bring groupwide tenacity) over a player.

Onorem

12-29-2011, 04:00 PM

<cite>shots01 wrote:</cite><blockquote>2. I don't find this game easy at all. I leveled my fury alot solo, but I also had a lot of help in the mid 70s to 88. 88 to 90 I did with a friend and we ran a ton of quests.3. Healers are an issue because 90 groups only want a specific healer type. Rarely do I see groups asking for a fury. They either want wardens or inquisitors.</blockquote>2. Really? I understand you can always challenge yourself with heroics or much higher level content, but you don't find the game easy from 1-89 at all?3. I guess with Warden and Inquisitor being 2 of my 3 healers, I might not have noticed that trend. I group with guildmates, not pugs, so that might factor in too...but I haven't heard any complaints about the Mystic either.Fury is a tough class. The ones I play with I trust completely, but I do think (not having spent enough time to say it's an informed opinion) that it's a class that depends more than others on the person behind it. They can be very powerful, but not many get all they can out of it.

Iskandar

12-29-2011, 04:39 PM

<cite>Onorem wrote:</cite><blockquote>Fury is a tough class. The ones I play with I trust completely, but I do think (not having spent enough time to say it's an informed opinion) that it's a class that depends more than others on the person behind it. They can be very powerful, but not many get all they can out of it.</blockquote>That's mainly because too many people play a Fury as a "mini-wizard" DPS class with heals that they may or may not remember to use. It's always fun to have a pickup Fury healer who just lets the group die because he's too busy nuking and totally forgot about that whole "heal thing" <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />Personally, I play my Fury as a healer first and foremost -- and there isn't a single heroic instance that I can't solo heal. My focus is on keeping my group and the MA/MT alive and cured above all else. Nukes are just what I do to fill the time when my heals are recycling, not vice versa.

shots01

12-29-2011, 04:42 PM

<cite>Onorem wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shots01 wrote:</cite><blockquote>2. I don't find this game easy at all. I leveled my fury alot solo, but I also had a lot of help in the mid 70s to 88. 88 to 90 I did with a friend and we ran a ton of quests.3. Healers are an issue because 90 groups only want a specific healer type. Rarely do I see groups asking for a fury. They either want wardens or inquisitors.</blockquote>2. Really? I understand you can always challenge yourself with heroics or much higher level content, but you don't find the game easy from 1-89 at all?3. I guess with Warden and Inquisitor being 2 of my 3 healers, I might not have noticed that trend. I group with guildmates, not pugs, so that might factor in too...but I haven't heard any complaints about the Mystic either.Fury is a tough class. The ones I play with I trust completely, but I do think (not having spent enough time to say it's an informed opinion) that it's a class that depends more than others on the person behind it. They can be very powerful, but not many get all they can out of it.</blockquote>1-25 easy, yes... I find getting to 35 to be a chore. Then getting to 40. Once I hit 40 I can solo everfrost to my heart's content. I love everfrost. Once I hit 50, I find getting to 65 to be virtually impossible. That is more because i can't stand Lesser Faydark, I don't care for Lavastorm, and I cannot solo instances so makes leveling those levels difficult.Once to 65 and into KP, I can solo most of the stuff.. getting to 70 takes while, but I can do it. I just stay away from the Rime. Then at 70-72, I try for 72, I will move on to Fens again soloable, but slow...Easy? no.. slow.. yes.Mystics and defilers I don't care for after trying them out several times. I find that for me they heal way way too slowly, sample with templars. I betrayed my templar to an inquisitor. She is 26. But I don't playher much.My warden WAS slow to getting to the mid 60s. I don't know why I didn't think of it sooner, I betrayed her to fury, and made her a bug. Within weeks she was 90. I had help though. As for soloing on my fury, she does okay. I can solo the Library up to the first named LOL.. then I can't kill him to get the stairs to spawn.I can solo the content in SF and SH, quest wise. But to solo instances.. no..As for your statement it is more the person behind the fury. I agree. I went with a friend and one other into PR for my first time. Stone was concerned I might not have the power to do the run. Well...at the end, he told me I did a good job. We died at the usual place....plus I learned NOT to put cures on a macro. Big mistake. So now when we do that run its easier to group heal and single heal.I listened and watched several furies that I grouped with. I took what they said, how they played, into consideration and developed my own playstyle that works for me.She is set up to heal the best that she can and do DPS at the same time. ....I am in a 3 man guild. I am the guild leader. So running with the guild is not an option. And since I am nervous running with pug groups where I don't know anyone.....I don't pug alot. I have run a few RWs and done okay after the initial lag LOL.. I don't find the game easy.. No....

shots01

12-29-2011, 04:44 PM

<cite>Iskandar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Onorem wrote:</cite><blockquote>Fury is a tough class. The ones I play with I trust completely, but I do think (not having spent enough time to say it's an informed opinion) that it's a class that depends more than others on the person behind it. They can be very powerful, but not many get all they can out of it.</blockquote>That's mainly because too many people play a Fury as a "mini-wizard" DPS class with heals that they may or may not remember to use. It's always fun to have a pickup Fury healer who just lets the group die because he's too busy nuking and totally forgot about that whole "heal thing" <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />Personally, I play my Fury as a healer first and foremost -- and there isn't a single heroic instance that I can't solo heal. My focus is on keeping my group and the MA/MT alive and cured above all else. Nukes are just what I do to fill the time when my heals are recycling, not vice versa.</blockquote>^^ that.Unless I am solo questing then I obviously will do the DPS first.Unless specifically asked, I always, in a group setting, heal/cure first above all else.. After buffs of course. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Banditman

12-29-2011, 04:48 PM

<cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeap i have several locked toon to test low level content, and since i touched a t1 dps with stomper i will never ever enjoy again my inquisitor. He used to be my most powerfull toon, now he is boring and slow to play.So, you are comparing two characters to one and you have a problem. Really? Have you tried pairing your Inquisitor with another Merc for a true comparison? I thought not. Hint: Try Brigand.And honestly he has lot of aas and his certainly the funnier healer to play -- with furies which are totally differents).How do you expect people to play healers with almost 0% casting speed, 0 dps mod.Healers don't need DPS mod. Really! If you do, I dunno - HIRE A DIRGE MERC?!?!? Hire a different merc. You are comparing apples to hamburgers CONSTANTLY and whining about poorly designed and grossly misleading "tests".I don't even want to think about how bad it must be for a templar or a defiler.Easier than ever.And clearly i would never level a mystic today, when mine grew up we all had 0 everywhere. Now she would got a bit of potency while scout/figthers got their melee dps doubled while getting a cure bot.Mystics are among the most powerful melee Priests in the game. If you don't know how to use yours, perhaps you should . . . . and I can't believe I'm going here . . . L2P.I m not pesonnaly involved, i do not plan to level any healer and i will enjoy the overpowered beastlord. I m just concerned the young priest seeing scouts one shooting anything while they work 3-5 times longer to kill mobs. When they will understand that they won't ever get a group and that the little scout is completely safe with stomper taking care they will simply give up. I also wonder their reaction when a group will prefer stomper (cause he bring groupwide tenacity) over a player.Apples to hamburgers AGAIN. If someone can't kill fast enough now, they have NO EXCUSES. Hire a merc. It's just pitiful how you can't see what is plain to everyone else here.</blockquote>

Raknid

12-29-2011, 04:58 PM

It is very rare that someone plods through the lower levels unless they are just wanting to experieince the content. In that regard, any class is fine even before mercs.The "game" part of the game really starts and 90, and mercs are just a tool to get people their faster if that is what they want.Nobody really goes out to try to group up and do yellow difficult content for the sole reason of seeing how hard they can make it on themselves.Quit self flaggelating; enjoy the scenery as you go or get to 90, either way mercs don't break the game for anyone...unless they are looking for someone to self flaggelate with.You are simply saying the way you want to play the game is "right" and that mercs "break" that mold. Fine. That doesn't mean that mercs are broken, it just means they don't fit with your playstyle.

Onorem

12-29-2011, 05:04 PM

<cite>shots01 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Onorem wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shots01 wrote:</cite><blockquote>2. I don't find this game easy at all. I leveled my fury alot solo, but I also had a lot of help in the mid 70s to 88. 88 to 90 I did with a friend and we ran a ton of quests.3. Healers are an issue because 90 groups only want a specific healer type. Rarely do I see groups asking for a fury. They either want wardens or inquisitors.</blockquote>2. Really? I understand you can always challenge yourself with heroics or much higher level content, but you don't find the game easy from 1-89 at all?3. I guess with Warden and Inquisitor being 2 of my 3 healers, I might not have noticed that trend. I group with guildmates, not pugs, so that might factor in too...but I haven't heard any complaints about the Mystic either.Fury is a tough class. The ones I play with I trust completely, but I do think (not having spent enough time to say it's an informed opinion) that it's a class that depends more than others on the person behind it. They can be very powerful, but not many get all they can out of it.</blockquote>1-25 easy, yes... I find getting to 35 to be a chore. Then getting to 40. Once I hit 40 I can solo everfrost to my heart's content. I love everfrost. Once I hit 50, I find getting to 65 to be virtually impossible. That is more because i can't stand Lesser Faydark, I don't care for Lavastorm, and I cannot solo instances so makes leveling those levels difficult.Once to 65 and into KP, I can solo most of the stuff.. getting to 70 takes while, but I can do it. I just stay away from the Rime. Then at 70-72, I try for 72, I will move on to Fens again soloable, but slow...Easy? no.. slow.. yes.Mystics and defilers I don't care for after trying them out several times. I find that for me they heal way way too slowly, sample with templars. I betrayed my templar to an inquisitor. She is 26. But I don't playher much.My warden WAS slow to getting to the mid 60s. I don't know why I didn't think of it sooner, I betrayed her to fury, and made her a bug. Within weeks she was 90. I had help though. As for soloing on my fury, she does okay. I can solo the Library up to the first named LOL.. then I can't kill him to get the stairs to spawn.I can solo the content in SF and SH, quest wise. But to solo instances.. no..As for your statement it is more the person behind the fury. I agree. I went with a friend and one other into PR for my first time. Stone was concerned I might not have the power to do the run. Well...at the end, he told me I did a good job. We died at the usual place....plus I learned NOT to put cures on a macro. Big mistake. So now when we do that run its easier to group heal and single heal.I listened and watched several furies that I grouped with. I took what they said, how they played, into consideration and developed my own playstyle that works for me.She is set up to heal the best that she can and do DPS at the same time. ....I am in a 3 man guild. I am the guild leader. So running with the guild is not an option. And since I am nervous running with pug groups where I don't know anyone.....I don't pug alot. I have run a few RWs and done okay after the initial lag LOL.. I don't find the game easy.. No....</blockquote>There are definitely slow spots in the solo level grind, but it's boring, not difficult. The game is easy. That's one of the things that makes it boring, but I guess that's the crowd they're hoping to bring into an old established game. End of BBM, EL, Zek, Early Feerrott...boring, but enough there to get through the 30s. Everfrost revamped line...again, boring, but easy. LS, same...though I don't feel like levelling a crafter yet again just to advance a questline. The painful spot for me is getting to the level that KoS mobs will give me quests. (Note to devs. Don't gate quests based on level. Give out the quests and let players die if they aren't smart enough to know what they can handle) TT sucks with NPCs telling me I'm not strong enough to be there, so I kill everything on the island they're on and hear the same thing again.I do understand the desire to have a nice small family type guild, but I really do think that small guilds are the biggest reason why people have a hard time finding pugs to join now. I'm part of the problem. I'm in a big guild and have been since 05.. If I do join a pug, it's almost always because a guildmate tricked me into it with a blind invite.

Mohee

12-29-2011, 06:22 PM

Similar to a merc post I replied to yesterday...Yesterday, playing my 63 Fury, which is my most twinked character with mainly Fableds, and a few peices of legendary, lots of AA's, and 100% adorned. I got about 12k hp and 11k mana.a 63 Shadowknight joined the group with a 63 Inquis merc. The merc had 23khp and about the same mana.I seem to remember $oE saying something about "Mercs will not be better than players." Well... my Fury is as geared out as you can possibly be and the healer merc has twice the amount of HP/Mana as I do. And even though I'm on the quick draw with cures, sometimes the merc would beat me to it. They're way to overpowered..... hand down.

Banditman

12-29-2011, 06:34 PM

FFS. Mercs are mentored down 90's. Any mentored players will be more powerful than their natural leveled counterparts. This isn't new, or difficult to understand. The sub 90 game is really not all that exciting or important in the overall scheme of things, and once you get to 90, those mercs are decidedly sub par.But frankly, you're still doing it wrong if you are getting worked by a merc. Mercs have ZERO AA's.

Mohee

12-29-2011, 06:53 PM

Ok we got it, mercs are 90's mentored down. sheeshthe fact is they are still way overpowered and need to scale down to lower levels more properly.

shots01

12-29-2011, 07:07 PM

LOL bad guildie!!You said you find some of the zones boring. May I ask your age if you don't mind?I am 53. I LOVE Everfrost and don't find it boring at all. Feerrott -- I like the jungle feel. Hubby hates it.Nek forest I cant stand.. zek I don't like. Enchanted lands I like, but there aren't enough quests out there. What I DON'T like is it feels as if they are forcing you to get to 35 in BBM alone. After awhile, that zone gets old. LOL.As for getting to 65 for running KP, join me and we either do loping plains or run the heck out of SoS until we hit 65 or 66 LOL..55 to 65 is another area that is rough. Where I don't like LF, TT and Barren sky are ehh... I usually do a lot of city writs..As for crafters, I have 11 lvl 90 crafters, 9 masters, 9 shawl updaters. LOL

shots01

12-29-2011, 07:11 PM

Ok so I deleted all the quotes LOL.Reason I asked your age is I find younger players DO find those areas boring. I think its just more a matter ofpreference and what you want to do. I like to quest. I am not real big on instances.When I had to do speak like a dragon to get my Fury her language... OOB.. hmmm what is the abbreviation for obelisk of lost souls? Man..That is where my unfamiliarity with the zone really kicked in.I had been in there before maybe 2-3 times. For the life of me, I could NOT remember nor find out HOW to get to where I needed to go.. the central hallway if you will. I was on the outskirts, but couldn't find the center hall way so you could access the inner doors to get to the middle of the zone if you know what I mean...

Neiloch

12-29-2011, 07:18 PM

Why is the sub-level 90 game even being discussed?Only reason they even exist or have content is that they used to be the level cap or added on so people have a new place to level their umpteenth alt. It is simply not meant to be played the same way level cap content is.Relax and enjoy the OP flukes of those levels because they most certainly do not exist at the level cap.

Rijacki

12-29-2011, 07:21 PM

<cite>Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why is the sub-level 90 game even being discussed?Only reason they even exist or have content is that they used to be the level cap or added on so people have a new place to level their umpteenth alt. It is simply not meant to be played the same way level cap content is.Relax and enjoy the OP flukes of those levels because they most certainly do not exist at the level cap.</blockquote>There are some people who like playing the game slower and don't want to be at level cap. The content in 1-89 isn't there just to level umpteen alts, it's there for players to enjoy.

shots01

12-29-2011, 07:21 PM

Castegyre

12-29-2011, 07:45 PM

Odys

12-30-2011, 01:20 AM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeap i have several locked toon to test low level content, and since i touched a t1 dps with stomper i will never ever enjoy again my inquisitor. He used to be my most powerfull toon, now he is boring and slow to play.So, you are comparing two characters to one and you have a problem. Really? Have you tried pairing your Inquisitor with another Merc for a true comparison? I thought not. Hint: Try Brigand.I tried, hs dps is very low lesser than the one of his master. The inqui brig duo is way slower than the BL stomper one. I tried the bard too, i prefer him over the brig.And honestly he has lot of aas and his certainly the funnier healer to play -- with furies which are totally differents).How do you expect people to play healers with almost 0% casting speed, 0 dps mod.Healers don't need DPS mod. Really! If you do, I dunno - HIRE A DIRGE MERC?!?!? Hire a different merc. You are comparing apples to hamburgers CONSTANTLY and whining about poorly designed and grossly misleading "tests".Battlepriest need DPS mod and furies need spell haste to balance the newly introduced dps mod on scout.I don't even want to think about how bad it must be for a templar or a defiler.Easier than ever.Certainly it's easier, but believe the gap between healer and dps is larger than ever (due to mecanism that i already explain). I leveled my mystic when ROK came out, and even with everyone busy to reach 80 and discovering a huge new content, i found groups when i wanted. Moreover my solo ability was far greater than the one of scouts. Today it would be totally different.And clearly i would never level a mystic today, when mine grew up we all had 0 everywhere. Now she would got a bit of potency while scout/figthers got their melee dps doubled while getting a cure bot.Mystics are among the most powerful melee Priests in the game. If you don't know how to use yours, perhaps you should . . . . and I can't believe I'm going here . . . L2P.LOL i leveled my mystic very easily and on the road i soloed sometimes heroic content. The arrogant learn to play argument is always used when people have nothing to say. I once say a video from a so called uber mystic (uber in gear) soloing some dumb and trivial epic. What he was doing my mystic already did it at 30 <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> -- i mean almost --I m not pesonnaly involved, i do not plan to level any healer and i will enjoy the overpowered beastlord. I m just concerned the young priest seeing scouts one shooting anything while they work 3-5 times longer to kill mobs. When they will understand that they won't ever get a group and that the little scout is completely safe with stomper taking care they will simply give up. I also wonder their reaction when a group will prefer stomper (cause he bring groupwide tenacity) over a player.Apples to hamburgers AGAIN. If someone can't kill fast enough now, they have NO EXCUSES. Hire a merc. It's just pitiful how you can't see what is plain to everyone else here.Apparently you fail see the issue. I mostly played healer in most MMO (and even in solo games). Strong ans steady is my style. If today choice would be a scout it means that there is a problem.Have you log on a 30ish scout ? Have you seen the gear ? Are you able to undertstand that a stomped scout will run around with 140 dps mod ? Believe me what happened in Eq1 will happen there if they do not balance out the gear.</blockquote></blockquote>

Aneova

12-30-2011, 04:14 AM

never mind

Felshades

12-30-2011, 04:32 AM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Are you really going to drag this arguement into ANOTHER thread? Really?</blockquote>I think the guy needs a forum vacation personally, because this is like the Nth time hes drug this dead horse around.People will still play healers. You know why I play healers? Because I have a god complex. I like being in charge of who dies and when. Can't do that with a merc. And people will not be using mercs in end game heroic instances.As many have already said, levelling has been and always will be trivial. Especially this late in the game. Guy's just got nothing else to whine about.

Felshades

12-30-2011, 04:36 AM

<cite>Castegyre wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why is the sub-level 90 game even being discussed?Only reason they even exist or have content is that they used to be the level cap or added on so people have a new place to level their umpteenth alt. It is simply not meant to be played the same way level cap content is.Relax and enjoy the OP flukes of those levels because they most certainly do not exist at the level cap.</blockquote>This post. It makes me sad.</blockquote>That post is how the game goes after a while.Every single last game I have ever played has made the levelling trip a ton easier for your Nth alt.They want you to keep playing, not go "i'm bored with my main but OH GOD I DONT WANT TO LEVEL THROUGH THAT AGAIN".

Wurm

12-30-2011, 05:54 AM

Good Grief Gorock, How many of these threads are you going to make? We get that you are unhappy playing your healer... WE HAVE GOTTEN IT SINCE DOV CAME OUT AND YOU STARTED MAKING ONE WHINE THREAD AFTER ANOTHER!If its only you whining over and over you might want to take a step back and look at your toon and how you play it.

kahonen

12-30-2011, 06:18 AM

The biggest incentive for me to play a healer was that I wanted to. That hasn't been removed from the game, and nor will it ever be.I still get as many groups as I can handle. For me anyway, that incentive hasn't been removed from the game.I still get the same kick now after taking down a new HM x4 mob and having guys guys in group and in raid saying "Nice job, healers" as I did the first time I raided. This is another incentive that hasn't been removed from the game.As for "kiting" furies having probs with ^^^ mobs - have you ever played a fury?If you are unhappy playing a healer, roll a new toon. You could have it at level 90 within a few hours of game-time.

daalberith

12-30-2011, 07:28 AM

<cite>Felshades wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Castegyre wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why is the sub-level 90 game even being discussed?Only reason they even exist or have content is that they used to be the level cap or added on so people have a new place to level their umpteenth alt. It is simply not meant to be played the same way level cap content is.Relax and enjoy the OP flukes of those levels because they most certainly do not exist at the level cap.</blockquote>This post. It makes me sad.</blockquote>That post is how the game goes after a while.Every single last game I have ever played has made the levelling trip a ton easier for your Nth alt.They want you to keep playing, not go "i'm bored with my main but OH GOD I DONT WANT TO LEVEL THROUGH THAT AGAIN".</blockquote>You missed the point.EDIT:Actually, let me make the point since I really didn't bother to before, my bad (that is one of my other accounts).There are people constantly saying the game is dumbed down. Even complaining about it. Then you have people saying the game is still too hard or tedious and complaining about that. Then, on top of that, you have people who say the game pre-level cap doesn't matter, so who cares?Well, it's the players fault the game is too easy now.When Norrath was originally being made into an MMO the concept was not race to cap and kill Naggy or Vox as fast as you can because that's the only thing that matters. Dig up some old quotes from McQuaid and Co, that wasn't the intent at all. It wasn't the intent when this incarnation of it went live either as I saw it, and it still shouldn't be as far as I'm concerned.But the players whine that stuff it too hard; OMG 5 DAY WAIT ON FLYING MOUNTS AND 20 MINUTE CHARM THAT MAKES IT HARD TO SOLO GROUP CONTENT?! just to name a couple recently. So the devs respond by caving into the players and dumb things down for the masses. Then you have the inevitable backlash to that of people complaining about nubs who rush to cap and won't learn how to play or gear themselves out properly.The game should be fun and engaging from the moment a character leaves the creator to the moment that player stops playing it regardless of level. That means from level one all the way up. If it's not, then stop playing or demand the devs grow a pair of balls and put some integrity back into their design process. No one is about to do that, though, because in the end the opinion that end game is all that matters is the prevailing one. And the devs are happy to reinforce that since it is the easiest way to keep some players on the hamster wheel chasing the carrot. So people can keep whining and dismissing the bulk of the game and being upset when the devs dumb it down even further to cater to them, but they have only themselves to blame for it being messed up and boring as hell because you can practically sleep walk through most of it with almost no effort now.When I see people say stuff like that it understandably makes me sad, because I see them as the core reason the game is in the state it is.

Odys

12-30-2011, 08:16 AM

I m sorry to see such an hostility from people who have such a low understanding of the mecanics in the leveling process. A 100 DPS mod increase scout dps by 1,5 by level 30 (if compared to ROK era, assuming 50% of the damage from autot attack). At that level priest get like 12% potency, so not even a modest +12% dps, indeed more likely 8% since potency does not apply to melee.And has I explained since dps is to be measured with mob hp pool, player max health and healing capabilities, so a dps increase for dps classes as more impact than on others.My arguments about the lack of dps stats on priests item at 90 also encountered much hostility. They were so wrong that the dev included thos stats in the new crafted fabled items.I m also so wrong about priest balance that most high end raiding guild use 4 inquisitors (for the cure while run, the heroic end finals and the dps boost + probably other abilities). This will certainly be fixed some day, after general denial. An no learn to play please, my 2 priest are welcome in any raid and they still have fun. Even my baby tank does his job way better than many full time tanks simply because i undertsand a bit the mecanics.As people pointed, some players will still play healers so i should correct my title from "no more incentive" to "Much less incentive ".

Wurm

12-30-2011, 08:45 AM

Yeah its all of us who are wrong and not you.It really is all about the level 90 game now. Just like it was all about the level 80 game during TSO.Anyone can pretty much clobber any of the old content regardless of class, some just do it faster as others.I enjoy old content, I don't even have a beastlord (pet classes in EQ2 never interested me even though I loved my WOW Warlock) I have a fighter and a healer and thats it. And I play both to their abilities and strengths and enjoy both.If you are no longer enjoying the game as your class, do something else. Just please stop coming in here at least once a week and whining about other classes/mercs/spells/whatever your current crusade is, no one is stopping you from playing a different class and none of the healers who are enjoying the game as a healer will mind.

Vitriol

12-30-2011, 08:31 PM

My incentive to play a healer is to do miracles and keep group alive through stuff that really should have killed them, and come out of the other side.Maybe you should try it rather than have another pop at healers...

Illmarr

12-31-2011, 10:53 AM

<cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>I m sorry to see such an hostility from people who have such a low understanding of the mecanics in the leveling process. A 100 DPS mod increase scout dps by 1,5 by level 30 (if compared to ROK era, assuming 50% of the damage from autot attack). At that level priest get like 12% potency, so not even a modest +12% dps, indeed more likely 8% since potency does not apply to melee.And has I explained since dps is to be measured with mob hp pool, player max health and healing capabilities, so a dps increase for dps classes as more impact than on others.My arguments about the lack of dps stats on priests item at 90 also encountered much hostility. They were so wrong that the dev included thos stats in the new crafted fabled items.I m also so wrong about priest balance that most high end raiding guild use 4 inquisitors (for the cure while run, the heroic end finals and the dps boost + probably other abilities). This will certainly be fixed some day, after general denial. An no learn to play please, my 2 priest are welcome in any raid and they still have fun. Even my baby tank does his job way better than many full time tanks simply because i undertsand a bit the mecanics.As people pointed, some players will still play healers so i should correct my title from "no more incentive" to "Much less incentive ".</blockquote>So cutting through your rhetoric you seem to be saying that Scouts kill faster than Priests so there is no reason to roll a Priest? If you give Priests comparable DPS why would I roll a Scout?

Elskidor

12-31-2011, 11:37 AM

<cite>Cisteros@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>I m sorry to see such an hostility from people who have such a low understanding of the mecanics in the leveling process. A 100 DPS mod increase scout dps by 1,5 by level 30 (if compared to ROK era, assuming 50% of the damage from autot attack). At that level priest get like 12% potency, so not even a modest +12% dps, indeed more likely 8% since potency does not apply to melee.And has I explained since dps is to be measured with mob hp pool, player max health and healing capabilities, so a dps increase for dps classes as more impact than on others.My arguments about the lack of dps stats on priests item at 90 also encountered much hostility. They were so wrong that the dev included thos stats in the new crafted fabled items.I m also so wrong about priest balance that most high end raiding guild use 4 inquisitors (for the cure while run, the heroic end finals and the dps boost + probably other abilities). This will certainly be fixed some day, after general denial. An no learn to play please, my 2 priest are welcome in any raid and they still have fun. Even my baby tank does his job way better than many full time tanks simply because i undertsand a bit the mecanics.As people pointed, some players will still play healers so i should correct my title from "no more incentive" to "Much less incentive ".</blockquote>So cutting through your rhetoric you seem to be saying that Scouts kill faster than Priests so there is no reason to roll a Priest? If you give Priests comparable DPS why would I roll a Scout?</blockquote>Which would be incredibly dumb for a Priest to be capable of. I still hate the fact priests DPS at all, and some of them put out way more than a priest should have ever dreamt and are able to keep up with heals. I've gotten use to my Templar slinging out 30-40k solo, but the sole reason I hade healers were to heal..not kill. About as dumb as the tanks that want more dps, when they were never intended to be a dps class.

Wurm

12-31-2011, 11:52 AM

<cite>Meube@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cisteros@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>I m sorry to see such an hostility from people who have such a low understanding of the mecanics in the leveling process. A 100 DPS mod increase scout dps by 1,5 by level 30 (if compared to ROK era, assuming 50% of the damage from autot attack). At that level priest get like 12% potency, so not even a modest +12% dps, indeed more likely 8% since potency does not apply to melee.And has I explained since dps is to be measured with mob hp pool, player max health and healing capabilities, so a dps increase for dps classes as more impact than on others.My arguments about the lack of dps stats on priests item at 90 also encountered much hostility. They were so wrong that the dev included thos stats in the new crafted fabled items.I m also so wrong about priest balance that most high end raiding guild use 4 inquisitors (for the cure while run, the heroic end finals and the dps boost + probably other abilities). This will certainly be fixed some day, after general denial. An no learn to play please, my 2 priest are welcome in any raid and they still have fun. Even my baby tank does his job way better than many full time tanks simply because i undertsand a bit the mecanics.As people pointed, some players will still play healers so i should correct my title from "no more incentive" to "Much less incentive ".</blockquote>So cutting through your rhetoric you seem to be saying that Scouts kill faster than Priests so there is no reason to roll a Priest? If you give Priests comparable DPS why would I roll a Scout?</blockquote>Which would be incredibly dumb for a Priest to be capable of. I still hate the fact priests DPS at all, and some of them put out way more than a priest should have ever dreamt and are able to keep up with heals. I've gotten use to my Templar slinging out 30-40k solo, but the sole reason I hade healers were to heal..not kill. About as dumb as the tanks that want more dps, when they were never intended to be a dps class.</blockquote>Because hitting things with a big ol' sword or axe doesn't hurt what is being hit.Or in the case of a templar a bit ol' war hammer or mace.Everyone should be doing as much damage as they can when they can.

Odys

12-31-2011, 04:15 PM

I m reading at the comment and i m amused. We see there a picture of modern america : fanatism, unability to analyse fact, tendancy to shape distorded reality. All USA Science campus are filled with recent immigrant (indians, chineses ...) andthis thread illustrate it. So much L2p, my 90 priest does lot of damage <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Irony mine do as much as the numbers quoted threre.So many "my priest is fine" ... oh well mine levelled when it was 3 time harder and 4 time longer <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />My post is about the leveling process, unlike the hord of short sighted peoples i think it's very important. This for a simple reason : it's what new players experiement at first. It's in the 30-40 first level that you decide if you want to play a class.And so what do we get in the 1-70 or 1-80 game ? Scout damage has been subtancially raised compared to the priest one.I m simply asking the balance to be kept as it was.Only dishonnest and biased people pretend than i m asking scout damage for priests.Before arguing you should simply play a level 30 toon and see how ridiculous it is to have a 30 scout with 120 dps mod 15% potency and a priest wit 20% potency and may be (if lucky) 10% dps mod.But i m facing fanatics, that believe in creationism, illuminatis and believe that starwar is epic. So it's a hopeless case <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Apparently fanatics believe that many will play a healer without anyone to heal (but themself) till 90. It's very unlikely, veteran will still level healers that way as they always did. But new players ? Never.As i explained, healers used to level as fast as any classe but it won't be the case anymore. They will be 2-3 time slower that obvious. I won't repeat here why scouts were not faster than priest (t has to do with mob hps, damage received, downtime etc ...).Anyway I'm 100% sure that 1-80 gear will be adjusted, either dps mod will be largely decreased or spell haste or potency on mage/priest item will be increased. The current status is perfectly unsustainable.

kahonen

12-31-2011, 04:49 PM

daalberith

12-31-2011, 04:52 PM

probably not worth it. Don't want to get modded on this account.

RogueSpideyChick

12-31-2011, 05:24 PM

it has been proven in previous posts on previous threads that unless u agree with him completely & wallow in his problems at button pushing, then there's obviously something with u & it's generally because of where you're from. there's no reasoning, rationalizing or explanations that can be done.personally, i have 3 healers because i enjoy playing the priest-type class & yes, i know that i'm lacking in skills on the 2 others for dps & heals (& im horrible at my mystic because i just cant get the hang of it compared to my fury ive played for so many years) because i haven't attempted to really get anything out of them. if i ever played them anymore (just don't have the time), id definitely check out the boards & ask for tips & info on how to fix them. i KNOW it's MY fault with knowing how to play the classes however. i even warn ppl, are you SURE that you want me to play that toon cause you're going to die...just sayin...i still bounce stuff off other furies for their opinions on her to make sure that i'm getting the most out of the class that i can. u just dont go around complaining that ur class's broken or "what's the use?" if u're having issues doing ur job. it's most likely the fault of the one hitting the buttons rather than the class. open-mindedness is fabulous.

kahonen

12-31-2011, 05:29 PM

<cite>Arica@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>it has been proven in previous posts on previous threads that unless u agree with him completely & wallow in his problems at button pushing, then there's obviously something with u & it's generally because of where you're from. there's no reasoning, rationalizing or explanations that can be done.personally, i have 3 healers because i enjoy playing the priest-type class & yes, i know that i'm lacking in skills on the 2 others for dps (& im horrible at my mystic because i just cant get the hang of it compared to my fury ive played for so many years) because i haven't attempted to really get anything out of them dps-wise. if i ever played them anymore (just don't have the time), id definitely check out the boards & ask for tips & info on how to fix them. i still bounce stuff off other furies for their opinions on her to make sure that i'm getting the most out of the class that i can. u just dont go around complaining that ur class's broken or "what's the use?" if u're having issues doing ur job. it's most likely the fault of the one hitting the buttons rather than the class. open-mindedness is fabulous.</blockquote>Well said.If anyone wants to know how to play a healer AND do the kind of DPS the OP claims isn't achievable, go read Arica's threads on the EQ2Flames forums. The guild I joined didn't have a spot for a fury as a regular raider and asked me to betray to Warden. What got me over the initial doubts was Arica's posts about playing a Warden. I betrayed, got the regular spot and haven't looked back. (Still miss the fury though!)When I mentioned in an earlier post that some healers do good DPS as well as healing and are well respected for it, Arica is up there with the best of them!

RogueSpideyChick

12-31-2011, 05:46 PM

<cite>kahonen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arica@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>it has been proven in previous posts on previous threads that unless u agree with him completely & wallow in his problems at button pushing, then there's obviously something with u & it's generally because of where you're from. there's no reasoning, rationalizing or explanations that can be done.personally, i have 3 healers because i enjoy playing the priest-type class & yes, i know that i'm lacking in skills on the 2 others for dps (& im horrible at my mystic because i just cant get the hang of it compared to my fury ive played for so many years) because i haven't attempted to really get anything out of them dps-wise. if i ever played them anymore (just don't have the time), id definitely check out the boards & ask for tips & info on how to fix them. i still bounce stuff off other furies for their opinions on her to make sure that i'm getting the most out of the class that i can. u just dont go around complaining that ur class's broken or "what's the use?" if u're having issues doing ur job. it's most likely the fault of the one hitting the buttons rather than the class. open-mindedness is fabulous.</blockquote>Well said.If anyone wants to know how to play a healer AND do the kind of DPS the OP claims isn't achievable, go read Arica's threads on the EQ2Flames forums. The guild I joined didn't have a spot for a fury as a regular raider and asked me to betray to Warden. What got me over the initial doubts was Arica's posts about playing a Warden. I betrayed, got the regular spot and haven't looked back. (Still miss the fury though!)When I mentioned in an earlier post that some healers do good DPS as well as healing and are well respected for it, Arica is up there with the best of them!</blockquote>im not a warden omg! *cry*

kahonen

01-01-2012, 07:24 AM

<cite>Arica@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>im not a warden omg! *cry*</blockquote>OK, I mixed you up with Rosvita's Warden posts on Flames. Your posts there I used while I was still playing a fury. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" />Doesn't change the main essence of what I was saying though.

Felshades

01-01-2012, 07:36 AM

<cite>Meube@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cisteros@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>I m sorry to see such an hostility from people who have such a low understanding of the mecanics in the leveling process. A 100 DPS mod increase scout dps by 1,5 by level 30 (if compared to ROK era, assuming 50% of the damage from autot attack). At that level priest get like 12% potency, so not even a modest +12% dps, indeed more likely 8% since potency does not apply to melee.And has I explained since dps is to be measured with mob hp pool, player max health and healing capabilities, so a dps increase for dps classes as more impact than on others.My arguments about the lack of dps stats on priests item at 90 also encountered much hostility. They were so wrong that the dev included thos stats in the new crafted fabled items.I m also so wrong about priest balance that most high end raiding guild use 4 inquisitors (for the cure while run, the heroic end finals and the dps boost + probably other abilities). This will certainly be fixed some day, after general denial. An no learn to play please, my 2 priest are welcome in any raid and they still have fun. Even my baby tank does his job way better than many full time tanks simply because i undertsand a bit the mecanics.As people pointed, some players will still play healers so i should correct my title from "no more incentive" to "Much less incentive ".</blockquote>So cutting through your rhetoric you seem to be saying that Scouts kill faster than Priests so there is no reason to roll a Priest? If you give Priests comparable DPS why would I roll a Scout?</blockquote>Which would be incredibly dumb for a Priest to be capable of. I still hate the fact priests DPS at all, and some of them put out way more than a priest should have ever dreamt and are able to keep up with heals. I've gotten use to my Templar slinging out 30-40k solo, but the sole reason I hade healers were to heal..not kill. About as dumb as the tanks that want more dps, when they were never intended to be a dps class.</blockquote>Since taunts as a method of threat is about the worst way to generate it, we do damage. Damage = hate. Getting hit = hate. More damage = more hate.My inquisitor casts nukes on mob. People beat on mob. Nuke procs heals.I AM HEALING WHILE DPSING.

Vitriol

01-01-2012, 10:26 AM

I don't understand the point of your first paragraph - did you have a point to make? FYI, I'm not American.The reason you get so much L2P in your threads, is because that is exactly what you need to do. I've been playing a warden since EOF, I've seen a lot of abilities change, playstyles change - and I've adapted, learnt new ways to deal with stuff - all I see you do on here is whine about how priests are so hard done by, how you don't feel you match up to other classes, how you can't keep a tank up - ever thought that perhaps you should try playing a different class?Play something that you can just faceroll on the keyboard, probably more your thing.<blockquote>I m reading at the comment and i m amused. We see there a picture of modern america : fanatism, unability to analyse fact, tendancy to shape distorded reality. All USA Science campus are filled with recent immigrant (indians, chineses ...) andthis thread illustrate it. So much L2p, my 90 priest does lot of damage <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> Irony mine do as much as the numbers quoted threre.So many "my priest is fine" ... oh well mine levelled when it was 3 time harder and 4 time longer <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>

gourdon

01-01-2012, 10:37 AM

<cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>I m reading at the comment and i m amused. We see there a picture of modern america : fanatism, unability to analyse fact, tendancy to shape distorded reality. All USA Science campus are filled with recent immigrant (indians, chineses ...) andthis thread illustrate it. So much L2p, my 90 priest does lot of damage <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> Irony mine do as much as the numbers quoted threre.So many "my priest is fine" ... oh well mine levelled when it was 3 time harder and 4 time longer <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />My post is about the leveling process, unlike the hord of short sighted peoples i think it's very important. This for a simple reason : it's what new players experiement at first. It's in the 30-40 first level that you decide if you want to play a class.And so what do we get in the 1-70 or 1-80 game ? Scout damage has been subtancially raised compared to the priest one.I m simply asking the balance to be kept as it was.Only dishonnest and biased people pretend than i m asking scout damage for priests.Before arguing you should simply play a level 30 toon and see how ridiculous it is to have a 30 scout with 120 dps mod 15% potency and a priest wit 20% potency and may be (if lucky) 10% dps mod.But i m facing fanatics, that believe in creationism, illuminatis and believe that starwar is epic. So it's a hopeless case <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />Apparently fanatics believe that many will play a healer without anyone to heal (but themself) till 90. It's very unlikely, veteran will still level healers that way as they always did. But new players ? Never.As i explained, healers used to level as fast as any classe but it won't be the case anymore. They will be 2-3 time slower that obvious. I won't repeat here why scouts were not faster than priest (t has to do with mob hps, damage received, downtime etc ...).Anyway I'm 100% sure that 1-80 gear will be adjusted, either dps mod will be largely decreased or spell haste or potency on mage/priest item will be increased. The current status is perfectly unsustainable.</blockquote>This post just illustrates how ignorant you are. Dumb is everywhere, it just comes in different flavors in different places. It is defined by just accepting what is popular to your social group as what is good and right. The beliefs of the Left are just as stupid as the beliefs of the Right. At least the rational middle of the road actually exists in the U.S. , unlike the bulk of Europe where most are indoctrinated to be well to the Left, leaving those dissatisfied with the situation little choice but to become Right wing crazies.I am one of those grad students in technology in a University system that makes the bulk of Europe's Universities look pathetic. Part of the reason for this is that we don't have science and engineering campuses. Schools are a UNIVERSITY. This allows one to get a broad education. We will continue to destroy Europe in higher education because we have unparalleled cross-disciplinary educational systems that prepare students to innovate. The European schools are still in the dark ages trying to play catch up with their antiquated, overly focused socialistic school systems. Good luck with that. With the economic outlook you've got over there, the developing world will probably just shoot right past you. Their schools have already caught up to you, though that isn't saying much.Believe me when I say this. There are fewer foreign students in science and engineering than you think, and they are not the ones that will actually do something meaningful with their educational experience. There is a reason the bulk of the people doing the cutting edge stuff in the U.S. are home grown. The foreign students are in school to get grades while the U.S. students are there to mold the way they solve problems. Most of the foreign students sure can memorize, but they don't seem to have any idea as to how it applies to the world at large. The good thing is that if we can get them to stay and work here, their children turn out to be intelligent, independent thinking beings. Sometimes the parents catch on as well.Star Wars actually is epic, but that is because the word is a definition of scope, not quality. Popular seldomly means deep or interesting in the U.S. or anywhere else. Avatar is the highest grossing film world wide and has nothing more going for it. They are both tired, recycled plots that are excuses for action and showing nice special effects. That is pretty much it.As for the Illuminati, most wouldn't know what they are. We have had 9/11 conspiracy theorists and the like in the U.S, but there were probably a higher proportion of that stupidity in your country than here. I wonder if you're one of them since you clearly are the type that might think the U.S. would make a terrorist strike on itself to justify war in the Gulf and Afghanistan. We are a bunch of uneducated idiots that just want to go get us some oil.I didn't really have too much opinion on the 1-89 game since I haven't done much in it since the item revamp. However, you resorting to ad hominem attacks makes me inclined to think you're full of it in general and are blowing what might be a small problem out of proportion.

Deago

01-02-2012, 01:10 AM

In regards to a previous post:The mercs are not better then a well equiped and played player.The reason for the hiked hp is because at lower levels and for solo mobs they pretty much take control and can solo just about anything that is 'soloable.' Now lets move up in levels and introduce mobs to which you need crit mit etc.. you will notice the mercs have the mitigation of a snail without the shell so they are for tanking hard zones 'worthless.' This is probably intended by soe.Give the mercs high hp and low mit so they can tear through solo mobs but have trouble in higher heroic content thus the need for real players remains yet mr and mrs solo can still find use in them is what has been done to my knowledge. I mean solowise I can and could before but more to the point now go literally naked and never upgrade a spell till 81+ and still be very fine with a merc doing all the solo mobs.The only exception I seen was with the mage mercs who clearly could one or two shot some heroics <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />My 2 cents.

Odys

01-02-2012, 06:50 AM

<cite>gourdon wrote:</cite><blockquote>This post just illustrates how ignorant you are. Dumb is everywhere, it just comes in different flavors in different places. It is defined by just accepting what is popular to your social group as what is good and right. The beliefs of the Left are just as stupid as the beliefs of the Right. At least the rational middle of the road actually exists in the U.S. , unlike the bulk of Europe where most are indoctrinated to be well to the Left, leaving those dissatisfied with the situation little choice but to become Right wing crazies.I am one of those grad students in technology in a University system that makes the bulk of Europe's Universities look pathetic. Part of the reason for this is that we don't have science and engineering campuses. Schools are a UNIVERSITY. This allows one to get a broad education. We will continue to destroy Europe in higher education because we have unparalleled cross-disciplinary educational systems that prepare students to innovate. The European schools are still in the dark ages trying to play catch up with their antiquated, overly focused socialistic school systems. Good luck with that. With the economic outlook you've got over there, the developing world will probably just shoot right past you. Their schools have already caught up to you, though that isn't saying much.Believe me when I say this. There are fewer foreign students in science and engineering than you think, and they are not the ones that will actually do something meaningful with their educational experience. There is a reason the bulk of the people doing the cutting edge stuff in the U.S. are home grown. The foreign students are in school to get grades while the U.S. students are there to mold the way they solve problems. Most of the foreign students sure can memorize, but they don't seem to have any idea as to how it applies to the world at large. The good thing is that if we can get them to stay and work here, their children turn out to be intelligent, independent thinking beings. Sometimes the parents catch on as well.Star Wars actually is epic, but that is because the word is a definition of scope, not quality. Popular seldomly means deep or interesting in the U.S. or anywhere else. Avatar is the highest grossing film world wide and has nothing more going for it. They are both tired, recycled plots that are excuses for action and showing nice special effects. That is pretty much it.As for the Illuminati, most wouldn't know what they are. We have had 9/11 conspiracy theorists and the like in the U.S, but there were probably a higher proportion of that stupidity in your country than here. I wonder if you're one of them since you clearly are the type that might think the U.S. would make a terrorist strike on itself to justify war in the Gulf and Afghanistan. We are a bunch of uneducated idiots that just want to go get us some oil.I didn't really have too much opinion on the 1-89 game since I haven't done much in it since the item revamp. However, you resorting to ad hominem attacks makes me inclined to think you're full of it in general and are blowing what might be a small problem out of proportion.</blockquote>You are perfectly right about the high quality of your universities, and the fact that globally it's better organized.It's also true that your coutnry still produce high quality scientists, but the amount of teams leaded by recent immigrants is amazing. You can see it as an asset, america was till now the most attrctive place for a bright student, but is is also a weakness. Over all the western countries attactivity of science have declined, and it started in the USA. I visited several time US universities and i saw less and less american born peoples.I m sorry for the ad hominem attacks, they were directed at people who obviously never did anything else than raiding and i was in a sense simply retaliating.So i m truly sorry for the two lines <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Griffildur

01-02-2012, 08:02 AM

<cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>I m reading at the comment and i m amused. We see there a picture of modern america : fanatism, unability to analyse fact, tendancy to shape distorded reality. All USA Science campus are filled with recent immigrant (indians, chineses ...) andthis thread illustrate it. So much L2p, my 90 priest does lot of damage <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> Irony mine do as much as the numbers quoted threre.So many "my priest is fine" ... oh well mine levelled when it was 3 time harder and 4 time longer <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />My post is about the leveling process, unlike the hord of short sighted peoples i think it's very important. This for a simple reason : it's what new players experiement at first. It's in the 30-40 first level that you decide if you want to play a class.And so what do we get in the 1-70 or 1-80 game ? Scout damage has been subtancially raised compared to the priest one.I m simply asking the balance to be kept as it was.Only dishonnest and biased people pretend than i m asking scout damage for priests.Before arguing you should simply play a level 30 toon and see how ridiculous it is to have a 30 scout with 120 dps mod 15% potency and a priest wit 20% potency and may be (if lucky) 10% dps mod.But i m facing fanatics, that believe in creationism, illuminatis and believe that starwar is epic. So it's a hopeless case <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />Apparently fanatics believe that many will play a healer without anyone to heal (but themself) till 90. It's very unlikely, veteran will still level healers that way as they always did. But new players ? Never.As i explained, healers used to level as fast as any classe but it won't be the case anymore. They will be 2-3 time slower that obvious. I won't repeat here why scouts were not faster than priest (t has to do with mob hps, damage received, downtime etc ...).Anyway I'm 100% sure that 1-80 gear will be adjusted, either dps mod will be largely decreased or spell haste or potency on mage/priest item will be increased. The current status is perfectly unsustainable.</blockquote>I am not sure what to make of your comment. It's not only utterly stupid but also downright idiotic.You went from moaning about priest damage to how US universities are filled with immigrants ?First of all here's some news for you. The whole of the US was made by immigrants. If you'd spend 5 minutes reading a book you'd know that.Then you go and compare scout dps to priest dps. Well here's another piece of news for you Sherlock, priests are just that , priests.If you'd play the game you'd see all priests can do damage depending on their AA and spell quality. Yes I have 3 scouts and yes I have soloed a defiler up to 90 as well, using only quests gear. You wanna talk to me about slow ? So they get to 90 in 2 weeks instead of one, big deal.I've seen , over the years many complain as you do even when Dov was released, how they were unable to do anything. Well I am sorry mobs down bend over and drop dead when they see your mighty person.Many, you included, fail to see the bigger picture. A healer may do less damage then a scout but you can't have groups without healers ... in relevant content that is.The game 1-90 is so easy it's ridiculous. I know cause I've done it 5 times up to 90. There's a golden path, there's level ranges on every single area, the outland mobs were nerfed. There's more than one way to level up. I am sure new players will be fine in a world which which is virtually risk free. Heck it's more difficult in Rift then it is in eq2 and that is saying something.

Vitriol

01-02-2012, 08:13 AM

<cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>I m sorry for the ad hominem attacks, they were directed at people who obviously never did anything else than raiding and i was in a sense simply retaliating.So i m truly sorry for the two lines <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Everyone has done something other than raiding.Nobody came into EQ2 as a max level char with full AA and gear.

Neiloch

01-02-2012, 09:22 AM

<cite>daalberith wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Castegyre wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why is the sub-level 90 game even being discussed?Only reason they even exist or have content is that they used to be the level cap or added on so people have a new place to level their umpteenth alt. It is simply not meant to be played the same way level cap content is.Relax and enjoy the OP flukes of those levels because they most certainly do not exist at the level cap.</blockquote>This post. It makes me sad.</blockquote>That post is how the game goes after a while.Every single last game I have ever played has made the levelling trip a ton easier for your Nth alt.They want you to keep playing, not go "i'm bored with my main but OH GOD I DONT WANT TO LEVEL THROUGH THAT AGAIN".</blockquote>You missed the point.EDIT:Actually, let me make the point since I really didn't bother to before, my bad (that is one of my other accounts).<snip>When I see people say stuff like that it understandably makes me sad, because I see them as the core reason the game is in the state it is.</blockquote>Really? Someone who wants to get to level cap because that's the only place any decently challenging content is are responsible for the most of the game being EASIER?Wrong.I loved the game when it was released and loved the journey through the levels. I did all the dungeons. Know why? Because it was CHALLENGING. Why oh why would I 'take my time' in what is now some of the easiest content in all of video games to enjoy the non-existent challenges? Other than challenge all that remains is basically sight seeing which i'm not too hot on doing in a video game. Since I actually like video games I don't complain when something is too hard.You were partly right, it is the people whine about the games various challenges that is dumbing down the game and it's starting to bleed into raiding. This is because they have 'whined' the stuff they used to do into a lack of difficulty they themselves don't enjoy. Incidentally this is why I don't roll alts either since all it is is a matter of time before they are 90, not a matter of skill or knowledge.So these whiners turn their sights to hard groups and raiding since their domain is now too easy for enjoyment. What do they do when they get there? 'It's too hard cause blah blah blah'1-89 is a joke and it is NOT because of the people who no longer play those levels, I assure you. I suggest you set your sights on people like the ones in this very thread who still actively play 1-89 levels, within their ranks you will find the relentless whining over things being 'too hard.'Not all who play low level characters complain about the game being too hard, but they are the only ones who do it.