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Bauglir

12-18-2011, 03:58 PM

Been doing some DOV dungeon content during the last few weeks. My stats: Fully mastered spells, 200 AA, 112 CM, 183 CC, 100 CB. Yes I know I need a lot of work but.. before you bash please continue reading.I played with several groups in several dungeons, they all had similar gear and stats, plus or minus about 50 AA from me.I'm using fire pet, and using AoEs when possible and allowed, using my damage spells in a rotation that makes sense for cooldowns.My findings are that I was always outdamaged by fighter and scout dps.What might I be doing wrong? I was either almost even with the wizard in the group, just above, or below them. Both of us were being outdamaged by the melee.Any suggestions?

Laenai

12-18-2011, 04:39 PM

Honestly? It could be almost anything.Low AAs for sure.Group set up.Gear of those melee fighters.With the stats you posted, my mystic would probably do double your parse and not lose anyone in the group.

Bauglir

12-18-2011, 07:17 PM

<cite>Karimonster wrote:</cite><blockquote>Honestly? It could be almost anything.Low AAs for sure.Group set up.Gear of those melee fighters.With the stats you posted, my mystic would probably do double your parse and not lose anyone in the group.</blockquote>Well, I suspect its not just the above items that are helping me place so low on the damage meters. In about 2 weeks I should be able to revisit this and test it, at current rate of AA accumulation I should be nearly at 300 by then and have somewhat better armor and adornments.

Illmarr

12-20-2011, 12:18 PM

what is your group make-up? You're basically on an island without some proper buffs that benefit your class from a Troubador and Illusionist. And at 200 AA as you realize, you still have a ways to go with self-improvement

Bauglir

12-21-2011, 01:53 PM

<cite>Cisteros@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>what is your group make-up? You're basically on an island without some proper buffs that benefit your class from a Troubador and Illusionist. And at 200 AA as you realize, you still have a ways to go with self-improvement</blockquote>I checked the AA skills.. honestly.. not much more to select thats going to matter. Just 2 more skills and some base damage skill buff..I was in a group last night, The Assasin and SK were doing 5 times my DPS, I inspected.. both were in similar gear (Rygorr with a few DoV fabled items and similar adornments). The SK had 263 AA the Assasin had 220 AA, I'm at 215 aa now.As for CC we all were around 200.So.. no its not an AA thing... hmm...

Lempo

12-21-2011, 02:03 PM

<cite>Bauglir wrote:</cite><blockquote>I checked the AA skills.. honestly.. not much more to select thats going to matter. Just 2 more skills and some base damage skill buff..<sigh>I was in a group last night, The Assasin and SK were doing 5 times my DPS, I inspected.. both were in similar gear (Rygorr with a few DoV fabled items and similar adornments). The SK had 263 AA the Assasin had 220 AA, I'm at 215 aa now.Then you are flat out doing it wrong if they are doing 5x your damage. If you are talking about 3-5 sec fights maybe, if you are talking about named encounters that are lasting a little longer you are just bad and need to do a lot of work on some training dummies, because regardless of what you think about your casting order and cooldown times, you are wrong.As for CC we all were around 200.So.. no its not an AA thing... hmm... So you ask for help, don't know what it is but do know what it isn't? lol.</blockquote>

Bauglir

12-21-2011, 06:07 PM

<cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bauglir wrote:</cite><blockquote>I checked the AA skills.. honestly.. not much more to select thats going to matter. Just 2 more skills and some base damage skill buff..I was in a group last night, The Assasin and SK were doing 5 times my DPS, I inspected.. both were in similar gear (Rygorr with a few DoV fabled items and similar adornments). The SK had 263 AA the Assasin had 220 AA, I'm at 215 aa now.Then you are flat out doing it wrong if they are doing 5x your damage. If you are talking about 3-5 sec fights maybe, if you are talking about named encounters that are lasting a little longer you are just bad and need to do a lot of work on some training dummies, because regardless of what you think about your casting order and cooldown times, you are wrong.As for CC we all were around 200.So.. no its not an AA thing... hmm... So you ask for help, don't know what it is but do know what it isn't? lol.</blockquote></blockquote>Let me ask this another way, and maybe hostile replies like the one above won't happen.. somehow I doubt this.What is the best rotation for group fights..This is what I am doing: Send fire pet, CB, FA, (AOEs if applicable, earthquake, shattered earth, AA AOE..), Ele Blast, little pet spells (if its a long fight).Any suggestions..

Lempo

12-21-2011, 06:15 PM

The reply wasn't hostile, you still have not addressed questions asked by others, such as your group makeup which can make a huge difference. It is not going to make a 5x more difference. You apparently do't like to be told to go work on some training dummies, and that is your choice to do or not but you can gain a lot from doing it.

Bauglir

12-21-2011, 10:37 PM

group makeup:pallySkAssasinTemplarIllusionistConj (me)

Illmarr

12-21-2011, 11:25 PM

from a lowly Conjy alt: Pre-cast your pet temps like Blazing Avatar and Elemental Unity so they are running when the fight starts. Try and time EB to Illy's Time Warp. I cast CB just about every other spell it refreshes so fast, but I'm not sure if that's a good strat or not.There is also a lot of DPS to be gained in the Heroic Tree that at 200 AA you've barely scratched

Odomfel

12-22-2011, 05:37 PM

Things that matter for your DPS are:1. Spell Level (Always masters of course)2. Gear3. Cast order4. AA points5. Group makeup and the buffs they grant you.6. High Crit. Bonus and Crit. Chance, also High Intelligence and potency.7. Your adornments can make a huge difference as well.All of these will help you. The one thing you can contantly practice is your cast order. Also, try and time your spells for the right moments if possible. Use Heroic Opprtunities, these will grant a little more DPS. Get this down and you'll be a long way to getting good DPS. There are times I get out parsed by a Tank or a scout, not often anymore but it happens. I don't have the top end gear but I have pretty decent stuff and I definately hold my own.

Lempo

12-22-2011, 05:43 PM

When casting a spell during time warp you also want to cast it before time warp is active and have it land as close to time warp becoming active (but AFTER it is active obviously) as possible.

Jiraiya-of-Aphadrim

12-28-2011, 07:53 AM

<cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>When casting a spell during time warp you also want to cast it before time warp is active and have it land as close to time warp becoming active (but AFTER it is active obviously) as possible.</blockquote>I think that is wrong. From my testing it seems to work the way, that you have to start the cast, while the spell is active.So you can't pre-cast it but you can finish a cast after it has run out and still get the bonus as long as you startet it during the duration. So first get the fast spells through and at the end something slow like BA.But that are fine adjustments. If other DDs are doing 5 times your damage, your Casting is wrong (or they are far ahead of you with gear and AA).With little pet spells, did you mean swarm pets? Never cast them, all 3 shouldn't even be on your casting bar.Unless they are better supported or better equipped you should be able to hold your own against other dd classes. On single target fights assas may have a little advantage, warlocks on encounter ae. Only open AE fights are a little difficult. And I'm talking here about 10-20% and not 500%.Check out the casting order generator thread at eq2flames.

Banditman

12-28-2011, 03:03 PM

Mythical? That's a very sizeable DPS adjustment.The general point remains the same here. If all else is equal, and you are getting embarrased by other DPSers, you are doing something wrong, and the information you have shared here is not nearly adequate for an accurate diagnosis of the problem.

Mohee

12-28-2011, 08:54 PM

Raid Conj vs. Raid ScoutConj = carefully planning out spell cast order and working with Illusionist Time Warp to maximize DPS, always casting, buffing pet to keep dps up.Scouts = Auto attack and do just about the same DPS if not more than any mage working their rear off to DPS.I'm basing my knowledge of scouts off of what I've been told by the many raiding scouts I know.thats my experience.

Bauglir

12-28-2011, 09:33 PM

Yes.. I have my ERAs for the last poster, yes this is what I have been seeing... Conj = gimpedWhile I have a very low SK alt I doubt I am going to waste more time to level him up.. I'll play my conj until I get sick of being low demand

Jiraiya-of-Aphadrim

12-29-2011, 07:22 AM

Nah, scouts too have to work for their damage. Their auto attack maybe has a greater percentage of their damage than what our pet would have if we only press pet attack, but they still have to work for their damage. A lazy scout will do half of your damage at best if you know what you are doing. I'm sure there are encounters that are harder for them as they are for us and vice versa. And conji is a fantastic class. I'm often topping the parse even without Sol Ro.

Jemoo

12-29-2011, 10:21 AM

<cite>Mohee wrote:</cite><blockquote>Raid Conj vs. Raid ScoutConj = carefully planning out spell cast order and working with Illusionist Time Warp to maximize DPS, always casting, buffing pet to keep dps up.Scouts = Auto attack and do just about the same DPS if not more than any mage working their rear off to DPS.I'm basing my knowledge of scouts off of what I've been told by the many raiding scouts I know.thats my experience.</blockquote>O.o If that's all it takes to DPS on a scout then why aren't there more of them? It take planning and buffs just the same on a scout that it does on a mage. Yes, a lot of scouts' damage comes from autoattack but if you interrupt it, that's dps lost, if you hit big attacks before debuffs, that's dps lost, if you don't time you're temp buffs, that's dps lost. Just because 30-50% is auto attack doesn't mean it's easymode dps.

Banditman

12-29-2011, 10:59 AM

<cite>Bauglir wrote:</cite><blockquote>As for the last poster, yes this is what I have been seeing... Conj = gimpedWhile I have a very low SK alt I doubt I am going to waste more time to level him up.. I'll play my conj until I get sick of being low demand</blockquote>You. Are. Doing. It. Wrong.I am the top DPSer in my raid. It includes Necromancers, Assassins, Brigands, Rangers, Wizards, Warlocks . . . doesn't matter. There is no gear difference, we all have access to the same level of gear. I may not win every single parse, but when you go back and look at the zone as a whole, it is *exceedingly* rare for me to not be first.Yes, when I do heroic stuff, it's more challenging. Every group doesn't necessarily have the ideal composition for a Conjuror, but under no circumstances am I being embarrased by any other DPS player. I am certainly not "gimped" by any stretch of the imagination.It is very frustrating when players look at every possibility for failure besides the one in the mirror.

Bauglir

12-30-2011, 02:17 AM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bauglir wrote:</cite><blockquote>As for the last poster, yes this is what I have been seeing... Conj = gimpedWhile I have a very low SK alt I doubt I am going to waste more time to level him up.. I'll play my conj until I get sick of being low demand</blockquote>You. Are. Doing. It. Wrong.I am the top DPSer in my raid. It includes Necromancers, Assassins, Brigands, Rangers, Wizards, Warlocks . . . doesn't matter. There is no gear difference, we all have access to the same level of gear. I may not win every single parse, but when you go back and look at the zone as a whole, it is *exceedingly* rare for me to not be first.Yes, when I do heroic stuff, it's more challenging. Every group doesn't necessarily have the ideal composition for a Conjuror, but under no circumstances am I being embarrased by any other DPS player. I am certainly not "gimped" by any stretch of the imagination.It is very frustrating when players look at every possibility for failure besides the one in the mirror</blockquote>Actually I'm a decent player, I don't expect you to believe me and I'm not going to share my character name and server. The problem is that for the content I am working on which is low end 6 man DoV dungeons the conj class simply won't parse well. Scouts and melee will have the best opprotunity to dps.I think you and your raid pals have top gear and that gear really does define the conj class, and all mage classes. I also think your working your butt off to be a DPS contender. You are working far harder then scouts. You are workign far harder then the beastloards will be. Maybe you have a scout, maybe you don't. It does not matter.Your an elitiest, nothing wrong with that. However your group type, your group venue, and your familairty level with your group members are different. Your playing a different game. A game where you actually will have "perfectly balanced" groups, a game where you will be raiding and thus the mobs don't die as fast so you can start up your rotation and make it work.I bet if you found a pug of rygorr equiped people you didn't know you would end up out-parced by a scout or a damage Sk.People like you are the majority of the 90 DOV content runners, but the game is almost dead, in part because of people like you. The culture you help sustain is simply not going to welcome people into this game. You need new people, seriously you do.You expect the few of us that have returned or are new to: have 300+ AAs, buy overpriced raid leftovers, and to put up with your arrogance, in order to be suitable to group with you as a fill-in if someone dosen't show up for groups or raids.I wonder what you will do when beastlords parse better on raids... oh wait you will PL one and play that more.

Mohee

12-30-2011, 09:46 AM

In my guild raids i'm usually either #1, 2 or 3 in the parse. Fighting for top with a wizard and warlock. But a lot of that has to do with our Mage group set-up and all of us working together to increase eachothers dps and timing buffs to pull out amazing numbers. (Usually our mage group is Wiz, Conj, Warlock, Troub, Fury, Illusionist) Those classes all working together in harmony do amazing DPS =)Now... when I get into regular DoV groups that don't have a Troub & Illy, my dps is quite different and a lot lower. But still pretty good. In most 1 group situations, most well geared scouts will out DPS me, some times by quite a bit.And I apologize for anyone who thought I stated that scouts don't do anything but autoattack, I was simply stating that a lot of scouts have told me they can still pull off amazing DPS by mostly just auto-attacking with a few backstabs here and there. I dont play a scout so I don't know, it's just what i've been told by some very high DPS'ing scouts =P

luinnil

12-30-2011, 09:17 PM

<cite>Bauglir wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bauglir wrote:</cite><blockquote>As for the last poster, yes this is what I have been seeing... Conj = gimpedWhile I have a very low SK alt I doubt I am going to waste more time to level him up.. I'll play my conj until I get sick of being low demand</blockquote>You. Are. Doing. It. Wrong.I am the top DPSer in my raid. It includes Necromancers, Assassins, Brigands, Rangers, Wizards, Warlocks . . . doesn't matter. There is no gear difference, we all have access to the same level of gear. I may not win every single parse, but when you go back and look at the zone as a whole, it is *exceedingly* rare for me to not be first.Yes, when I do heroic stuff, it's more challenging. Every group doesn't necessarily have the ideal composition for a Conjuror, but under no circumstances am I being embarrased by any other DPS player. I am certainly not "gimped" by any stretch of the imagination.It is very frustrating when players look at every possibility for failure besides the one in the mirror</blockquote>Actually I'm a decent player, I don't expect you to believe me and I'm not going to share my character name and server. The problem is that for the content I am working on which is low end 6 man DoV dungeons the conj class simply won't parse well. Scouts and melee will have the best opprotunity to dps.I think you and your raid pals have top gear and that gear really does define the conj class, and all mage classes. I also think your working your butt off to be a DPS contender. You are working far harder then scouts. You are workign far harder then the beastloards will be. Maybe you have a scout, maybe you don't. It does not matter.Your an elitiest, nothing wrong with that. However your group type, your group venue, and your familairty level with your group members are different. Your playing a different game. A game where you actually will have "perfectly balanced" groups, a game where you will be raiding and thus the mobs don't die as fast so you can start up your rotation and make it work.I bet if you found a pug of rygorr equiped people you didn't know you would end up out-parced by a scout or a damage Sk.People like you are the majority of the 90 DOV content runners, but the game is almost dead, in part because of people like you. The culture you help sustain is simply not going to welcome people into this game. You need new people, seriously you do.You expect the few of us that have returned or are new to: have 300+ AAs, buy overpriced raid leftovers, and to put up with your arrogance, in order to be suitable to group with you as a fill-in if someone dosen't show up for groups or raids.I wonder what you will do when beastlords parse better on raids... oh wait you will PL one and play that more.</blockquote>Is 100-150k parses in a 6 person group 'not parsing well'? Because my Conj isn't at the top of the game (max AA with some EM x4 and x2 gear) and I rarely have trouble parsing excellently even without an illusionist and a troubador. It's probably more like 80-120k if there's neither in the group but that's still more than respectable.They're an amazing class and I rolled mine after seeing our guild's conjuror steamroll people on DPS.

Banditman

12-31-2011, 04:14 AM

Exactly.They aren't gimped. They aren't even close to gimped.Content is irrelevant. Once again I state the caveat that GEAR BEING EQUAL this holds up. If you are getting wtfpwnbbq'ed in any situation and the gear / aa / etc is equal . . . You. Are. Doing. It. Wrong.Yes, there are a few very special situations where Scouts can have the advantage, just as there are most definitely situations where the Conjuror has the advantage.

Caethre

12-31-2011, 01:39 PM

<cite>Bauglir wrote:</cite><blockquote>Actually I'm a decent player, I don't expect you to believe me and I'm not going to share my character name and server. The problem is that for the content I am working on which is low end 6 man DoV dungeons the conj class simply won't parse well. Scouts and melee will have the best opprotunity to dps.I think you and your raid pals have top gear and that gear really does define the conj class, and all mage classes. I also think your working your butt off to be a DPS contender. You are working far harder then scouts. You are workign far harder then the beastloards will be. Maybe you have a scout, maybe you don't. It does not matter.Your an elitiest, nothing wrong with that. However your group type, your group venue, and your familairty level with your group members are different. Your playing a different game. A game where you actually will have "perfectly balanced" groups, a game where you will be raiding and thus the mobs don't die as fast so you can start up your rotation and make it work.I bet if you found a pug of rygorr equiped people you didn't know you would end up out-parced by a scout or a damage Sk.People like you are the majority of the 90 DOV content runners, but the game is almost dead, in part because of people like you. The culture you help sustain is simply not going to welcome people into this game. You need new people, seriously you do.You expect the few of us that have returned or are new to: have 300+ AAs, buy overpriced raid leftovers, and to put up with your arrogance, in order to be suitable to group with you as a fill-in if someone dosen't show up for groups or raids.I wonder what you will do when beastlords parse better on raids... oh wait you will PL one and play that more.</blockquote>I have a lot of sympathy with most of what you write here. But all that said, the Conjuror class is not in a bad state. Suzanna is not raidgeared, well, other than a couple of pieces she has picked up on pick-up raids - it is mostly Ry'Gorr gear still. But when she joins groups, she is usually topping the group parse, even against some scouts who are raidgeared (not hardmode-geared ones, but mediocre ones).Even in groups with absolutely no buff classes, Suzi will be getting a zonewide of 40-50K, and have much higher numbers on specific fights she is saving her big hits for, and that is more than enough to match most non-raidgeared DPS classes.Ignore the idiots saying "oh I parse 130K on a poor day", in practice, when you group with them, most of them end up with 20K-30K ZW. Run ACT and trust the numbers, and ignore nonsense spouted in channel. I cannot stress this enough: almost all losers in pickup groups lie about their parse and inflate the numbers in their chatter, but the reality is what you see in your ACT. Ignore the fights that last only a few seconds, those measure nothing - look at the long fights.If someone is seeing equally geared scouts getting 5x the damage, they are just doing some things wrong, and need to look into it a bit. It can be fixed. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />

Bauglir

01-04-2012, 01:09 PM

Ok. So what is your spell rotation?If your basing your decent dps off of one spell: manaburn then there is a problem, and I can tell you that 40kish dps is simply not competitive when melee are doing 50, 60,...90... 100.....Was on a raid last night.. most of the people were in rygorr.. I was doing around 27 - 30k.. I was dead last. 260ish AA.. better AAed conj in same gear did 31 - 33k... both of us sucked.So what are we doing wrong? whats that special rotation?Anyone?At this rate I have to wonder why I bother.. if I need to rely on getting manaburn to be a contender thats a serious issue..it means one high AA skill is the difference between being a contender or not being one.. thats completely rediclious.

luinnil

01-06-2012, 08:07 PM

<cite>Bauglir wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok. So what is your spell rotation?If your basing your decent dps off of one spell: manaburn then there is a problem, and I can tell you that 40kish dps is simply not competitive when melee are doing 50, 60,...90... 100.....Was on a raid last night.. most of the people were in rygorr.. I was doing around 27 - 30k.. I was dead last. 260ish AA.. better AAed conj in same gear did 31 - 33k... both of us sucked.So what are we doing wrong? whats that special rotation?Anyone?At this rate I have to wonder why I bother.. if I need to rely on getting manaburn to be a contender thats a serious issue..it means one high AA skill is the difference between being a contender or not being one.. thats completely rediclious.</blockquote>1) Focus on getting 100% cast speed and as close to 100% reuse speed as possible. Adorns / reforging / whatever.2) Go look up an AA spec that doesn't suck. 280+ AAs is very necessary for stuff like the pet crit bonus improvements in Heroic + soulburn. I also recommend enough of the Wis line that you can open up with stuff and not lose the pet instantly.3) Soulburn every time it's up, same with Elemental Blast (unless you have an Illy then time this with Time Warp). 4) On group encounters use toxicity and spam PBAE and normal AEs. Toxicity hits each member of an encounter for each thing in the encounter you hit. I have lagged my computer on things like fights in drunder with the waves of piggies.5) If your pet pulls aggro, use stoneskins or master's intervention, don't trust reanimate to always save you.6) DPS output is also dependent on your tank. If your tank can't handle that kind of aggro you won't be able to do that kind of damage.7) Be close enough to use Implosion and Earthquake.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" /> Cast blazing avatar whenever it's up.You're going to be using Crystal Blast a lot if you have good gear because you'll cast too fast for other stuff to be up and refreshing some of Conjuror DoTs isn't helpful.I couldn't really tell you my spell 'rotation' except that I push a lot of buttons, but gear is what's really going to seperate a lot out too as better gear starts having a higher and higher effect.EDIT: I want to say 40-60k was common dps for me as I was learning the class and in a medley of random heroic gear. x2/x4 gear with adorns was what jumped it up to 80-150k depending on situations.

Banditman

01-09-2012, 12:18 PM

I agree, Conjurors aren't about a hard and fast "rotation" of spells. It's understanding how those spells all work and what situations favor given techniques.Yes, Blazing Avatar every time it's up. Same for Soulburn. Same for Elemental Unity.With only 260 AA's, I'd probably go with something like <a href="http://beetny.com/eq2aa/?GU62;502i184a11@344a@12@348a188@3212f@2555@11553@ 25555@2255@211551@3121f5@25@455@215@11@11@11@355@1 1130w@1a@22a@2a" target="_blank">this for a DPS spec</a>. You're still missing Soulburn, which is very important, but that cannot be fixed with so few AA.Spend a lot of time on epic dummies in the GH learning how to rotate things. Gear makes a huge difference in how you do things, so telling you how I rotate my spells will not be very meaningful to you until you are at a comparable level.

Mohee

01-09-2012, 02:14 PM

Working together with a Troubador and Illusionist in your group can literally boost your DPS by 2-5x.Soloing (having to heal my pet) I can average 50-70k dps. In our raids when im in the mage group (Illy/Troub) most fights my dps will be more like 90-150k dps. If its an ecounter with multiple mobs, that number increases by a lot =) now we're talking 150-275k dps!So remember, when people are throwing out there numbers of dps, the majority of the time the high numbers are cause of other classes boosting the conj <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I always have our illy macro their timewarp to send me a tell its incoming, that way I have an audible sound to prepare for my deadly arsenal of spells im about to unleash when it goes off ^_^Soulburn, Elemental Blast, Elemental Toxicity - these three AA's will add A LOT to your overall DPS when used well.I just wish my scout pet was more useful....

Bauglir

01-09-2012, 03:11 PM

<cite>Mohee wrote:</cite><blockquote>Working together with a Troubador and Illusionist in your group can literally boost your DPS by 2-5x.Soloing (having to heal my pet) I can average 50-70k dps. In our raids when im in the mage group (Illy/Troub) most fights my dps will be more like 90-150k dps. If its an ecounter with multiple mobs, that number increases by a lot =) now we're talking 150-275k dps!So remember, when people are throwing out there numbers of dps, the majority of the time the high numbers are cause of other classes boosting the conj <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />I always have our illy macro their timewarp to send me a tell its incoming, that way I have an audible sound to prepare for my deadly arsenal of spells im about to unleash when it goes off ^_^Soulburn, Elemental Blast, Elemental Toxicity - these three AA's will add A LOT to your overall DPS when used well.I just wish my scout pet was more useful....</blockquote>Well considering all I am missing is Solulburn my points then about:1. one AA spell being required.2. DPS being subpar overall [due to heavy reliance on other classes]Are correct.Oh well.. can't expect much from a 7 year old plus game I guess..

Bauglir

01-09-2012, 03:17 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree, Conjurors aren't about a hard and fast "rotation" of spells. It's understanding how those spells all work and what situations favor given techniques.Yes, Blazing Avatar every time it's up. Same for Soulburn. Same for Elemental Unity.With only 260 AA's, I'd probably go with something like <a href="http://beetny.com/eq2aa/?GU62;502i184a11@344a@12@348a188@3212f@2555@11553@ 25555@2255@211551@3121f5@25@455@215@11@11@11@355@1 1130w@1a@22a@2a" target="_blank">this for a DPS spec</a>. You're still missing Soulburn, which is very important, but that cannot be fixed with so few AA.Spend a lot of time on epic dummies in the GH learning how to rotate things. Gear makes a huge difference in how you do things, so telling you how I rotate my spells will not be very meaningful to you until you are at a comparable level.</blockquote>"ONLY 260 AA's"? I am being outdamaged by melee and wizards with 240 - 260 AAs and similar gear/adorns. Yeah first I thought "I just suck... I should go and quit". However, I ran into a few conj's with similar gear and AAs and they were doing around the same DPS.Sure.. when I get around to it and end up with 300ish AA I suppose I'll be able to compete better but even then I suspect melee, Wizards, Warlocks will do more DPS in a group or in raids.I'm not asking for all classes to be balanced but as it stands I'm not competitive with my AA/Gear Peers of other classes.I'll keep plugging to get to 300+ AA but I doubt its goign to make much of a difference.I might be able to hit 40k dps then while other classes are doing 80 and 100k..There is a word for this.. "demoralizing".

gatrm

01-09-2012, 04:05 PM

Bauglir, if you are struggling to put out 30k, there's something wrong, and it's not the class. One big thing you really need to do is practice on a training dummy until you have worked out a decent spell rotation for yourself. ALL CLASSES IN THIS GAME ARE RELIANT ON HAVING THE RIGHT BUFFS TO PARSE WELL. Not only a conjuror. All other things being equal (gear, player skill, AA, spell quality), conjurors have equivilent abilty to dps as wizards, warlocks, assassins, rangers. If your gear, AA, and spell quality is equivalent to the others you refer to then you need to look at yourself. Use ACT while working on a series of epic training dummies. Use your standard rotation on the first, then change up a bit on each subsequent dummy until you get a nice size increase to your dps, then try out the new rotation in a group. A specific rotation may not even be necessary. Examine each of your abilities, getting a feel for cast speed and reuse. Be in range to use your pbaoe, heck, use autoattack for extra free dps. Don't bother using the swarm pets because they die too easily, take too long to cast, and don't do enough damage to be useful, besides with decent reuse, you'll always have something better you can cast. Don't wait for your DoTs to runout, recast them. Cast the fast casting stuff before you cast the long cast stuff, the reuse should be back up by the time you finish the quick cast...I'm thinking primarily of crystal blast and your st fire dot, but can't think of name of that one....(I don't play a conj at cap, but a lot of this is general information that should help you if you are having problems).Macro your pet attack to one of your attack spells that you use frequently, to ensure that it is attacking. Tell it to cast at range, rather than allowing it to go in and melee. Make certain you are using your mage pet.

Jiraiya-of-Aphadrim

01-09-2012, 05:33 PM

<cite>gatrm wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bauglir, if you are struggling to put out 30k, there's something wrong, and it's not the class. One big thing you really need to do is practice on a training dummy until you have worked out a decent spell rotation for yourself. ALL CLASSES IN THIS GAME ARE RELIANT ON HAVING THE RIGHT BUFFS TO PARSE WELL. Not only a conjuror. correctAll other things being equal (gear, player skill, AA, spell quality), conjurors have equivilent abilty to dps as wizards, warlocks, assassins, rangers. If your gear, AA, and spell quality is equivalent to the others you refer to then you need to look at yourself. correct, though there are of course differences, some fights you will shine, other fights other classes, especially encounters where not everything is linked are a little problematic for us, since we don't have much AoE damage. On the other hand we are really good at ranged fights, other classes are losing more damage (same problematic as with open AE fights). On encounter fights you should be 1 or maybe 2. after warlock. Single target it's a tough fight between conji, assa, wizzy and maybe ranger. Use ACT while working on a series of epic training dummies. Use your standard rotation on the first, then change up a bit on each subsequent dummy until you get a nice size increase to your dps, then try out the new rotation in a group. A specific rotation may not even be necessary. Examine each of your abilities, getting a feel for cast speed and reuse. Be in range to use your pbaoe, heck, use autoattack for extra free dps. There's a better way, scroll downDon't bother using the swarm pets because they die too easily, take too long to cast, and don't do enough damage to be useful, besides with decent reuse, you'll always have something better you can cast. correct, also communion is buggy, it cancels the raid wide buff from the pet.Don't wait for your DoTs to runout, recast them. Cast the fast casting stuff before you cast the long cast stuff, the reuse should be back up by the time you finish the quick cast...I'm thinking primarily of crystal blast and your st fire dot, but can't think of name of that one....(I don't play a conj at cap, but a lot of this is general information that should help you if you are having problems).partly right, quicker cast is not always better and for winds of velious it's better to let it run it's full duration. Refreshing Vampire Bats makes no sense but Fiery Anhiliation should be casted whenever it is up because of the high initial hit. For more scroll down.Macro your pet attack to one of your attack spells that you use frequently, to ensure that it is attacking. Tell it to cast at range, rather than allowing it to go in and melee. Make certain you are using your mage pet.I mapped keys to to pet attack and pet backoff, more control this way which is sometimes needed. There are fights with damage stops or if you have to use bubble to keep the pet alive, you don't want it to attack in the wrong moment. You have to train yourself a little to press the button again each time there is a new enemy but after some time that becomes natural. My thump is doing it without me thinking about it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />.</blockquote>If you want to find out the best casting order for you, you have to do the math.Damage Value (DV)=Spell Damage/(cast time + recovery)Do that for all your spells, for spells where it is a little hard to find out, for example Elemental Unity, have look at some parses where you run it's full duration. Example. Crystal Blast does 5000 spell damage in your discription and is doing 25000 in a parse. Elemantal Unity is doing 100000 in the same parse, you can take around 20000 for the spell damage. It's not exact but you only need to know where it will stand in the spell value list.When you have DVs for all your spells, sort them, beginning with the highest (should be Elemental Blast). Cast your spells in that order. But it's not that easy, some things to take into account. Some spells can be cast pre fight, during pull. Blazing Avatar, Plane Shift, Elemantal Unity, Elemantal Toxi... those are the first spells you cast. Elemental Blast should be timed with time warp. Debuffs should always be castet at the beginning of a fight (for us that is only Vampire Bats).Some other things, make a seperate casting order for AE fights, Icestorm is the worst spell for single target but nice against AE encounters, especially with ET running. Winds of Velious takes some time to do it's damage, so should be castet pretty early, if DVs are relatively similar, prefer spells with a short cast time because of all those 100% procs. If you don't have enough recast and run out of spells during fight, move crystal blast up in the casting order. It has a quite bad DV and cast time of 1 sec is relatively long but better casting it than nothing.If you have taken all that into account, and got your casting order, place them in that order in your hot bars. I did it starting from left to right and since 1 hotbar is not enough, from up to down. In a fight always cast the left and up most that is not on cooldown. And make a different hotbar for ae fights.As I said already, Elemental Blast is special, you want to cast it with Time Warp, in fights with big add waves, you want to spare Elemental Unity and Et and maybe ae spells until they spawn.I did a similar post for my guild and it really helped some of our dds a great deal, if I missed something/if you have other ideas would love to hear them.Edit: And nearly forgot the most importing thing. You have to learn to keep your pet alive. It takes some work but I haven't encountered a mob yet where it's not possible and we are working on drunder HM encounters. So if your pet is always dying, your doing something wrong, time aes, learn to use your pet protection spells in the right moment. There are already several postings to the problem in the forums.Nothing costs more damage than standing 5 secs around casting a pet (and possibly getting interrupted doing that).

Mohee

01-10-2012, 01:35 AM

Don't forget the Conjuror class has other utility abilities that Wiz/Warlocks dont have!

Bauglir

01-11-2012, 07:24 PM

Well. I still happen to think conj dps is not as reliable as melee, wizard, or warlock. We need timewarp plus 1 end AA spell to compete with other classes that do better dps even then with less aa and gear? insane.Our utility really is NOT appreciated.

Jiraiya-of-Aphadrim

01-11-2012, 09:28 PM

sorcerers need an illu nearly as much as we do and their endline (most probaly take sanguine sacrifice) also gives them quite a boost. And from what i read/heard/experienced classes are farely balanced. Like for all classes it depends on the group/raid you are in and the mob you are fighting but conji has good chances to lead the parse.And for our utility. That discussion has been going on for quite a while but I like what we have. 5,4% hp and pot and some miti for the WHOLE raid, what raidleader would want to miss that? 5 pot for the group, Et does amazing damage against groups and the deaggro component helps keeping those warlocks and wizzys alive. With stoneskins you can block ae dots and manadrains for your group, really impressed my group agaisnt hragdold. Up to nearly 1000 miti and groupstoneskin proc we help keeping group alive, especially usefull if you have a tank in group. Thanks to stoneskin and cabalist's cover we don't die so easily. And we have some nice resi debuffs. Mana shards and call of the hero also have their uses.That's more than a sorcerer has...I'm not saying the class is perfect, there are some issues that could need fixing (swarm pets, communion bug, pet survivabilty, soulburn+ps...) but conji is a really nice class and has as much right to be in a raid than a wizzy or warlock, maybe even more.But if you don't believe us and want to blame it on the class...

Lempo

01-11-2012, 10:04 PM

Lempo

01-11-2012, 10:08 PM

<cite>Bauglir wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well. I still happen to think conj dps is not as reliable as melee, wizard, or warlock. We need timewarp plus 1 end AA spell to compete with other classes that do better dps even then with less aa and gear? insane.Our utility really is NOT appreciated. </blockquote>You have absolutely no clue as to what you are talking about, you really don't. I see it on a regular basis, and I know you relly don't care too much for me on the forums, but that has nothing to do with the fact that I see it regularly and you have other conjys in here, one of them in one of the top WW guilds telling you differently.

Bauglir

01-12-2012, 04:22 PM

<cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bauglir wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well. I still happen to think conj dps is not as reliable as melee, wizard, or warlock. We need timewarp plus 1 end AA spell to compete with other classes that do better dps even then with less aa and gear? insane.Our utility really is NOT appreciated. </blockquote>You have absolutely no clue as to what you are talking about, you really don't. I see it on a regular basis, and I know you relly don't care too much for me on the forums, but that has nothing to do with the fact that I see it regularly and you have other conjys in here, one of them in one of the top WW guilds telling you differently.</blockquote>I have been to the training dummies... Can't seem to break 40k dps. Yes I have ET 2.0.. just missing manaburn.Honestly I don't care if you and others think I do not have a clue. I know I do.. and I know what I am seeing.Basiclly Conjuror Class = More dependant upon other classes buffs, gear, and high AA skills to be competitive with their fellow classes.I get it. Hopefully this helps returnign players that might be on the fence in regards to a class choice.I'm too busy to be bothered leveling up something else beyond my SK alt but its nice to be able to help people avoid wasting their time on this class.

Banditman

01-12-2012, 07:03 PM

The sooner you get another class leveled up the sooner you'll figure out that what you have here is a classic PEBCAK.

Lempo

01-12-2012, 07:37 PM

<cite>Bauglir wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have been to the training dummies... Can't seem to break 40k dps. Yes I have ET 2.0.. just missing manaburn.How many hours have you spent on the training dummies?Honestly I don't care if you and others think I do not have a clue. I know I do.. and I know what I am seeing.I don't know whether you have a clue or not, I do know based of what you have provided that you do not have a clue how to play the Conjy decently, much less optimally.Basiclly Conjuror Class = More dependant upon other classes buffs, gear, and high AA skills to be competitive with their fellow classes.You haven't played other classes at end game so this is just a SWAG and it is not the least bit accurate.I get it. No you don't.Hopefully this helps returnign players that might be on the fence in regards to a class choice.Nothing that you say would be of help to any player as far as class choice goes.I'm too busy to be bothered leveling up something else beyond my SK alt but its nice to be able to help people avoid wasting their time on this class.Well when you find the time bump this thread so we can keep an eye on whateer forum for your failures there.As Banditman said PEBCAK, or PEBKAC whichever way, I think most of the posters and people reading this thread know which of you two is right.</blockquote>

leannel

01-13-2012, 05:56 PM

<cite>Bauglir wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well. I still happen to think conj dps is not as reliable as melee, wizard, or warlock. We need timewarp plus 1 end AA spell to compete with other classes that do better dps even then with less aa and gear? insane.Our utility really is NOT appreciated.</blockquote>This is BS. I've played a conjie since late 2004 through all the ups and downs of the class, and learned a lot along the way from playing and reading the forums. Good dps does not happen overnight it also takes practice, and being able to adjust and make quick decisions based on the zone and mob you are fighting. No matter how many AA I've had at any given time I've never been at the bottom of the parse and kept up with other dps classes. The reliability of the conjuror's dps is often a reflection of the player. If my parse sucks, it's usually my fault. Keep playing, you'll only improve with time and learning.

Lempo

01-13-2012, 06:20 PM

OP, I can personally vouch that Leanne has absolutely no problem being at or near the top of the parse, usually in slot 2,3 or 4 because there is an absolute beast warlock that pretty much owns #1.The only thing that she left out was attitude, and your attitude says you can't and you are right, if you tell yourself that enough you'll actually believe it and will not be able to.

Bauglir

01-13-2012, 06:54 PM

Its simply too gear dependent or maybe the skills/spells are less powerful for this class?I played a Magician in eq1 for just over 4 years. I have about 1.2 years of consistant play with my conj. So, compared to many of you I am just startign out.Despite this, I'm seeing a massive DPS delta and this seems to be on par for all conj's in my gear and AA range compared to their "other class" peers.I might be splitting hairs but generally I see scouts, wizards, and Sks doing about 20% more dps. All similar gear and AA numbers.Oh and yeah I spent about an hour at the tranning dummies.. go ahead tell me I need to go there daily.

Filly67

01-13-2012, 07:43 PM

OP, I know you're sick of hearing this but you are just wrong. I am in a very basic raid guild and am in em gear. I never have an illy or a troub because we don't have any right now. I am still hitting between 80-100k regularly and have at least a few fights that I am hitting if not maintaining 120-130K. I am not an elite player and struggled with this toon in the beginning. I asked for and more importantly took advice. My AAs were not where they needed to be although I had 300 at the time. My spells were all mastered. That stuff is just the very begining. You need to find a casting order that works for you and people to help you. There is no reason to be stuck at your numbers. My conj does make a difference in raid. She is mostly in the top three for over all raid and most often in the top 5. The other mages can't beat her because they too are missing the illy and troubie love. It's the ranger and sin that beat me. I can live with that.

Bauglir

01-14-2012, 12:15 AM

<cite>Filly67 wrote:</cite><blockquote>OP, I know you're sick of hearing this but you are just wrong. I am in a very basic raid guild and am in em gear. I never have an illy or a troub because we don't have any right now. I am still hitting between 80-100k regularly and have at least a few fights that I am hitting if not maintaining 120-130K. I am not an elite player and struggled with this toon in the beginning. I asked for and more importantly took advice. My AAs were not where they needed to be although I had 300 at the time. My spells were all mastered. That stuff is just the very begining. You need to find a casting order that works for you and people to help you. There is no reason to be stuck at your numbers. My conj does make a difference in raid. She is mostly in the top three for over all raid and most often in the top 5. The other mages can't beat her because they too are missing the illy and troubie love. It's the ranger and sin that beat me. I can live with that. </blockquote>Well, I wish I could post the parsings, I can't. Would have to change everyones name and that takes too long.Its not just me.Like I said.. "overly gear dependent"Maybe your in full/partial raid gear? Again I am talking about the poor saps like me who are in low end rygorr.. comparing them to other classes in the same situation and realizing other classes are doing more damage.I know this is upsettting to all of you. I also know its meaningless to people like you who are beyond kael.

Banditman

01-17-2012, 11:30 AM

*sigh*If you are being beat, you are being beat by BETTER PLAYERS. It happens.You may note that you have not managed to find one person who will agree with your assessment. Perhaps that might tell you something?

Bauglir

01-17-2012, 06:59 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>*sigh*If you are being beat, you are being beat by BETTER PLAYERS. It happens.You may note that you have not managed to find one person who will agree with your assessment. Perhaps that might tell you something?</blockquote>I would agree if it was not for the fact I am comparing my parsings to those of an equally geared Neco and 2 Conjs. All of us are thinking we made a mistake wasting so much time. None of us were PLed, we leveled the old fashioned way and learned our class. Are you saying that all 4 of us are just horrible players and that is why comparably geared Scouts, Sks, Wizards, and Warlocks are doing 25 - 50% more damage in both groups and raids?Again, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT RYGORR LEVEL GEAR WITH CM ADORNS AND JEWERLY (SOME FABLED) FROM 6 MAN DOV INSTANCES. This is a far cry down from your gear but its the steping stone we need to get to where you are. We are talkign about raids in lower dov.Hell, I only have 152 CM and 240 CC now.. I can do lower DoV raids and groups.. thats it. And in those places me and others in similar gear and class are getting beat by similar geared scouts, wizards, and warlocks. Sure maybe its great at the top top end.I realize that compared to you we are just the low-class entry level (if that) summoners that really don't matter. I get that. Its drilled into me daily by other players and I'm ok with that. I get it.My point is that, right now, in order to get the gear you have and experience the content you are in me and my peers need to convince raid leaders to give us a shot. Hard to do that when they can get a Scout, Wizard, or Warlock to do better ranged damage. Its also hard to get a plain old group for the hell of it if they can fill the spot with another melee.. like oh a SK...abd get a better result.Been on a dozen raids so far, some with guild some pickup and all of them I parsed like crap. I came here along the journey to get some advice. I was looking for a rotation..I use macros, I get my pet in there, I keep him alive, I have tried numerous rotations and now wasted over 6 or so hours on training dummies. No luck. Best I can do is just about break 36k.I honestly and truly do not think its me, nor do I believe its my in-game pals who also play summonor/conj. I think Conj's don't measure up until they get raid gear. There's a massive gap between where you are and I am that other classes just don't seem to have at my level./shurg.

Lempo

01-17-2012, 07:28 PM

<cite>Bauglir wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>*sigh*If you are being beat, you are being beat by BETTER PLAYERS. It happens.You may note that you have not managed to find one person who will agree with your assessment. Perhaps that might tell you something?</blockquote>I would agree if it was not for the fact I am comparing my parsings to those of an equally geared Neco and 2 Conjs. All of us are thinking we made a mistake wasting so much time. None of us were PLed, we leveled the old fashioned way and learned our class. Do you not think that Banditman is equally geared in relation to the other players in his raids? My Warlock, the other warlocks and Leanne that I raid with are geared equally too, none of us are seeing what you are stating.Are you saying that all 4 of us are just horrible players and that is why comparably geared Scouts, Sks, Wizards, and Warlocks are doing 25 - 50% more damage in both groups and raids?None of us have actually said you are all 4 horrible players, your testimony here though seems to be saying that none of you can play your classes as well as the other players play thiers.Again, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT RYGORR LEVEL GEAR WITH CM ADORNS AND JEWERLY (SOME FABLED) FROM 6 MAN DOV INSTANCES. This is a far cry down from your gear but its the steping stone we need to get to where you are. We are talkign about raids in lower dov.It doesn't matter what the gear is as long as you are comparing apples to apples, if the Primary Stat, Crit Chance, Potency, Crit bonus, reuse and cast speed are all on par with each other then regardless of the content you should still have similar percentages of differences in your parses.Hell, I only have 152 CM and 240 CC now.. I can do lower DoV raids and groups.. thats it. And in those places me and others in similar gear and class are getting beat by similar geared scouts, wizards, and warlocks. Sure maybe its great at the top top end.You keep on using phrases like "It is great at the top end", "A far cry from your gear" etc it only emphasizes your refusal to look at it from any other viewpoint.I realize that compared to you we are just the low-class entry level (if that) summoners that really don't matter. I get that. Its drilled into me daily by other players and I'm ok with that. I get it.If you have gathered that from this thread then that is a big part of your problem and the only person that can fix that is you.My point is that, right now, in order to get the gear you have and experience the content you are in me and my peers need to convince raid leaders to give us a shot. Hard to do that when they can get a Scout, Wizard, or Warlock to do better ranged damage. Its also hard to get a plain old group for the hell of it if they can fill the spot with another melee.. like oh a SK...abd get a better result.Your point is invalid, we had to do the same content you are doing to get to the point to do the content we are doing now.Been on a dozen raids so far, some with guild some pickup and all of them I parsed like crap. I came here along the journey to get some advice. I was looking for a rotation..I know you are going to take this the wrong way, but a dozen raids? That is worse than when you said "I spent almost an hour on the training dummies"I use macros, I get my pet in there, I keep him alive, I have tried numerous rotations and now wasted over 6 or so hours on training dummies. No luck. Best I can do is just about break 36k.I honestly and truly do not think its me, nor do I believe its my in-game pals who also play summonor/conj. I tend to think that Banditman and Leanne know what they are talking about, I've seen enough necro/conjy raid parses to know they can more than hold their own.I think Conj's don't measure up until they get raid gear. There's a massive gap between where you are and I am that other classes just don't seem to have at my level.So you are saying that a warlock/wizzy/ranger/sin in Ry'Gorr would be able to parse just as good as a conjy with raid gear?/shurg.That's the spirit! </blockquote>

Mohee

01-17-2012, 07:40 PM

I love my conjI just wish my scout pet DPS was on par with the mage pet.VARIETY! The spice of life that has been gone for so long...*sniff sniff* <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" />

Remeo

01-17-2012, 09:01 PM

Has hit rate been discussed yet? Maybe they are being resisted alot.Just a thought.

Bauglir

01-17-2012, 10:04 PM

"So you are saying that a warlock/wizzy/ranger/sin in Ry'Gorr would be able to parse just as good as a conjy with raid gear?"NO I am saying that they would parse more then the conj in rygorr...a lot more.. enough to be game breaking (for the conj), I have proof I believe.And.... if I actually get some raid gear one day....I am certain I will find that they execute DPS with rather less effort then I.. and likely still do better on the parsings.

Banditman

01-18-2012, 11:28 AM

I can safely say that Scouts put in just as much effort to attain their DPS as you do. Probably more.Where do you stand when you DPS? Oh, right, just somewhere in the general vicinity. If you're REALLY concerned about squeezing every drop of DPS you want to stand within 10m of the mob to get Earthquake and Detonation to hit.Scouts? They *must* be behind the mob. They can't even begin effective DPS action until they are. Many, many of their attacks DEMAND that location before they will even fire. In an AE fight, where the opponents all spread out in a semi circle around the tank, Scouts have to readjust their position after each member of the encounter dies. Casters? Nah. We just keep nuking.I have ten characters at L90 / 320 AA. Three Mages, three Priests, two Scouts, two Fighters.Yes, Zealchu (my Conjuror) is at the upper end of the game in terms of equipment. However, I can assure you that the same is not true of all my characters. Most of them are in RyGorr gear, some of them still wear some old SF crap. I experience the game at all levels of gearing.My Dirge regularly manages to out-DPS similarly geared Roges and Predators. Why? Because I understand the game. Not because I have any sort of inate advantage over those classes, but because I have over 7 years of experience playing the game. I get the intracies of the game at a very basic level and apply them without really even thinking about it.An hour on a training dummy? Really? This is your dedication to improvement? Really? My characters spend DAYS at it. Trying different AA specs, different weapon combinations, different spell combinations. I'm sure I'm not the only one who does it. With Reforging, you have even MORE things to try.You really want help? Ok, I'll bite. You post me a FULL DPS breakdwon of a merged parse of 10 epic training dummies and I'll compare it to what Zealchu gets. Oh, I know, you won't parse what Zeal does, that's hardly the point. But by looking at the breakdown of the abilities and where they fall in the parse you can learn a lot about what is working and what isn't.

Lempo

01-18-2012, 06:09 PM

I think you took a bad bite there Banditman he has moved on to SacDaddy's Wizzy thread, pleading his case there.Pretty nice of you to offer to anyalyze his parse and try to help him out some, but it is abundantly clear that he is not on a mission to improve himself.

Bauglir

01-18-2012, 07:06 PM

He will get a parse.I am pretty sure I will end up with teasing a ridicule however. Despite this I will still provide a parse.

Lempo

01-18-2012, 07:11 PM

I do not know Banditman outside of the forums. I can say with certainty that he is not asking for a parse to ridicule you.I'm pretty sure that if you follow whatever advice he gives it will improve you, because despite the fact that you don't believe it Conjys are not in the shape you claim them to be in.