In Depth - Mage vs. Scout (IMG Heavy) [Archive]

Mohee

12-10-2011, 12:33 PM

I've been doing some pretty extensive testing. I think this goes to show just how broken the Scout pet is versus the Mage pet. Take a look for yourself. Hopefully, maybe someday, one of the Devs can see this information and possibly go try and see for themselves the difference between these pets. And maybe answer us if the scout pet is broken, or if they purposely intended for his DPS to be so low.*Notes* - Both pets are Mastered. The first set of Parse tests were done with 0 AA's. Also there are absolutely NO buffs on either pet, nor are there any buffs on me. Everything turned off!SCOUT TESTINGHere is a quick glance at the 6 available spells that the scout pet uses. Take note of the recast times.For simplicity sake, I'm going to round up the numbers for each spells recast time, to show the amount of times that ability could be used per minute by the pet.Wisp Blade: 12s recast : ~5 per min.Galestorm: 53s recast : ~1 per min.Furystorm: 35s recast : ~2 per min. (almost)Aery Whip: 9s recast : ~6 per min. (12s Duration)Thunderous Attack: 6s recast : ~10 per min.Storm Surge: 18s recast : ~3 per min.Here are 3 parses of the scout pet killing a level 90 Heroic Dummy with NO buffs on him at all and my AA's all 0.<img src="http://i.imgur.com/Z92L2.png" width="974" height="537" /><img src="http://i.imgur.com/6BYrp.png" width="974" height="537" /><img src="http://i.imgur.com/O0CrA.png" width="974" height="537" />This shows the total average DPS over these three fights is a small, 4998 DPS Avg.Some of the Abilities are hard to tell exactly how many times it was used during the fight, because if it does multiple lines of damage (such as Furystorm & Aery Whip) the parser will count each line of damage or tick of a Damage Over Time spell, as a spell cast(or time hit).For Furystorm, it does 4 lines of damage, so we'll just take the amount of times hit, and divide by 4, to get the number of times the ability was used.For Aery Whip, its a tougher guess, because its a DD + DoT for 12s(3s ticks =4 ticks). So lets assume for a 3 minute fight, if it hits mob 58 times, 4 ticks of damage + the initial DD, 58/5 = 11.6 casts (guestimate)Each fight was just a few seconds apart, almost an even 3 minutes to take out the Heroic Training Dummy. Here is the average for how many times a spell was cast vs. the amount of times it COULD have been cast.Wisp Blade: 6.6 out of 15 possible ~ 44% avgGalestorm: 3 out of 3 possible (good!) ~ 100% avgFurystorm: 4 out of 5 possible (good!) ~80% avgAery Whip: 11.6 out of 20 possible ~ 58% avgThunderous Attack: 8.6 out of 30 possible ~ 28%Storm Surge: 6.3 out of 10 possible ~ 63% avgIf you add all this up to find the average number of times the Scout pet uses an ability of his when it is up, equals 48.3% of the time. So about 50% of the battle, the pet is doing nothing but auto-attack. (48.3% came from adding up all possible casts (83) then add up the avg. times it was actually cast (40.1) then just 40.1/83= .483 or 48.3%)Unbuffed/No AA Scout Pet ConclusionHe averages 4998 DPS and uses his ability on average, 48.3% of the time they're up (Against 90 Heroic Training Dummy)Mage TestingHere are the 6 spells the mage pet uses. Again, recast timers are rounded up just like I did with the Scout pet. For the mage pet, we'll also have to add in the cast time for each spell. Since almost all the scout spells are instant cast (about .3s), while the mage cast times can be 1-2 seconds or more.Average fight time for Heroic Training Dummy for mage pet was 94 seconds.Single Target SpellsSearing Flames (.6s cast) 5s recast (12s duration(4 ticks)) Igneous Flames (1.2s cast) 2s recast : ~29 casts possibleSphere of Flames (2s cast) 8s recast : ~10 casts possibleEncounter AOE'sShocking Flames (2s cast) 5s recast : ~14 casts possibleWave of Flames (1.2s cast) 7s recast (12s duration(4 ticks))Storm of Flames (2.5s cast) 26s recast (12s duration(4 ticks))<img src="http://i.imgur.com/hgPQW.png" width="974" height="537" /><img src="http://i.imgur.com/570Nj.png" width="974" height="537" /><img src="http://i.imgur.com/fX00y.png" width="974" height="537" />The average DPS the mage pet does against the same level of Training Dummy as the scout pet, is 9710 DPS (compared to Scout pets 4998 )Here, we can already tell on average the mage pet is doing 194% more DPS than the Scout pet.If you figure up all the math just as I did the scout pet above, the mage pet casting average is off because of all the different DD+DoT spells he uses. If you watch the cast bar on your target window(when pet is targeted) he is pretty much always casting something, 90-95% of the time. So he is re-applying a lot of the DoT's before they even use a few ticks, making the numbers seem lower when trying to calculate the percentage of times cast out of the times possible.Cleary, the 194% DPS increase is enough to see just how broken/weak the scout pet is vs. the mage.ConclusionThe mage pet, on average, does 194% more DPS than the scout pet.Here are a few parses with 300 AA's spent (including all the AA's that give each pet these three additional abilities)<img src="http://i.imgur.com/iuFQJ.jpg" width="689" height="480" />Scout Parse vs. Epic Dummy (No help from Conj. meaning No Elemental Vestment, Elemental Blast, Soulburn, Blazing Avatar, or Elemental Toxicity)<img src="http://i.imgur.com/JPm5o.png" width="974" height="560" />Scout Avg. DPS = 11,571 (17 minute, 49 second long fight)Mage Parse vs. Epic Dummy (No help from Conj. meaning No Elemental Vestment, Elemental Blast, Soulburn, Blazing Avatar, or Elemental Toxicity)<img src="http://i.imgur.com/iD9mM.png" width="974" height="537" />Mage Avg. DPS = 25,208 (8 minute, 10 second long fight)Mage Pet = 217.8% More DPS than Scout!Comments, questions, or if anyone else wants to post their parse as well for more comparisons, please feel free!

Luhai

12-12-2011, 09:57 AM

Well, apart from your numbers being a bit off (9710 DPS are not 194% MORE than 499<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> this is a known problem, at least to us players. People have been running and posting parses for a long time now.SOE just doesn't care.

Xalmat

12-12-2011, 09:23 PM

Thanks for the extensive testing. Unfortunately this is not new news <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Bauglir

12-13-2011, 03:47 PM

This is a serious problem and likely will never be fixed considering that SoE needs to focus on BLs.The game has too many classes, too few paying customers, and thus too few developers working on fixing it let alone working on new content.In addition, those of us that are currently still filling out AAs and gear (and yes I have all the pet skills you mentioned and AAs to improve pets) and recently attained 90 are blocked from futher content progression because even with the CM, CC, and AA required guilds and PUG raid organizaers seem to be (in my humble opinion) focusing on known DPS and overall damage dealers. They don't need another Conj when a warlock or Wiz can be used. They don't understand conj DPS and honestly why shoudl I have to explain it to them?Problems like this don't help the above issue which is overall bigger in my opinion.I'm not truly motivated when I'm told from numerous players that no matter what I do I am going to be blocked from raid content due to my class choice.The OPs parses are proof enough that we have a pet thats plainly worthless.I just made an SK alt.. again class choice based on my prefereces.. the pals I made in game so far have told me that won't work either. I am advised to make a healer or a wizard/warlock. Since I don't like any of those choices I guess I won't be raiding or even grouping much. Sort of sucks to be WFG 90% of the time.

Luhai

12-14-2011, 06:59 AM

Actually that's a different story - people and biases.I pretty much destroy most wizards and warlocks with my conjuror. If you know your class (and get your hands on some decent gear) you're a worthy opponent for every other DPS out there. Just don't listen to people trying to tell you otherwise.Oh, and screw the air pet. Nobody uses it and nobody needs it.

Banditman

12-14-2011, 11:17 AM

Conjuror DPS is fine. We can compete with anyone, provided we have the right buffing.As far as the Bard pet sucking, yes it sucks, yes it should be fixed, no, it's not a new development.There have been more than enough threads explaining and demonstrating exactly where the problems are, with absolutely no acknowledgment or action taken. I don't expect any now.

Mohee

09-04-2012, 09:54 PM

Scout pet still doing the same DPS as before.And for your information Banditman, the conj scout pet is a Swashbuckler, not a bard.

Mohee

09-13-2012, 08:57 PM

Is the new scout pet coming with the new expansion going to be as useless as the rest? Or do you guys plan on fixing them? Also the new dumbfire pets, are they still going to do 5 dps and die within 0.1 second? Any information would be great, if these dont get upgraded and FIXED then like half of the new necro/conjy spells will be completely useless.