How to Improve the EQ2 f2p Model [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Friyja

12-10-2011, 09:52 AM

As many have noted, EverQuest II's freemium model is not the best one out there, or the most equitable or elegant. In some cases (like Broker tokens) its clumsiness can be attributed to the way certain game mechanics work (broker sales access is already capped by broker slots,) while other hard limits (like the locked AA slider)don't make much sense to me. The issue is that some people are flatly unwilling or unable, or at least deeply reluctant, to subscribe, but they'd still like to have access to some features and are otherwise happy to spend money. It's perfectly sensible to want to provide incentives to subscribe, but it's my opinion that those who are willing to do so already are, for the most part (see the cost analysis below.) Personally, my schedule (work and school, both full-time) doesn't allow me to play heavily for intervals of more than a few weeks at a time. I could arrange to sub for a month here and a month there, but for the rest of the year I'd be limited to just a couple hours a week, and under those conditions subscribing makes little sense. Now, I personally can live with the model as it stands today. It is still, IMO, better than the sub-only deal where you just get locked out completely if you don't sub. But I would like to see it made it better by allowing Silver and Free players to unlock certain things a la carte. To my mind, these things don't really disincentivise the Gold subscription plan, and would increase overall revenue the easy way: by giving people more things to spend SC on. <ul> <li>All account level limits and current unlockables stay as they are.</li> <li>Unlock personal bank slots. Probably 150 SC per slot, just like bags. Per character.</li> <li>Unlock shared bank slots. Probably 750 SC per slot, but account-wide.</li> <li>Unlock Plat cap. Probably 750 SC per character.</li> <li>Unlock AA slider. Per character, probably 500 SC. The current solution of setting everyone at 50% actually does work fine at least for leveling characters, but some folks like to fine-tune their advancement.</li> </ul> I'd be happy to pay these prices for these unlocks. And at these prices, to unlock all this on all 9 of my characters on Antonia Bayle, it'd cost a grand total of $301.50. That's roughly equivalent to 20 months of Gold at $15 a month. Obviously I wouldn't spend it all at once, but over time I'd get to every bit of it. It might well be more practical and cost-efficient to just subscribe, but doing it this way lets me spend the money my way and at my own pace. Would it disincentivize subscribing? I don't see how it would. Gold accounts would still get all races and classes unlocked, built-in access to gear, master-level spells and the broker, a higher quest journal cap, no pop-ups and hassle-free support, and the (IMO) huge incentive of 500 SC per month if their sub is recurring. If you're a heavy or serious player it would still (and should still) be clearly cheaper to sub. I strongly suspect that subscrition numbers would stay exactly as they are under the current model, but that Free and Silver players would be willing to pay for these unlocks, thus generating more revenue. Any individual particularly annoyed with one particular limitation can buy their way out of it. Such an individual, who might be inclinded to play less (or not at all) under the current hard limits, may be willing to play more - possibly a lot more - if there's a mechanism that eliminates the annoyance. And the more people play, the more they will spend in the store. Further discussion is hereby invited.

Amekoi

12-10-2011, 10:00 AM

I'm currently a plat subscriber, soon to be gold, so I don't see any of the restrictions.Even so, especially with the change to pristine repair mats, I don't see why they don't offer unlocks for plat and bag/bank slots. Even if it's done a la Runes of Magic, where you rent the space for so long before it expires and you must pay to unlock it again, it's something I would love to see implemented. The AA slider could be a charge for a one-time unlock (IE: I pay once and can move it to 80%, but will need to pay again to move it back down to 50%) or do the same renting option but for more SC.All of these ideas are good ideas, allow for silver members to pay additionally to rent to remove subscriptions without having to fully go gold, and will generate more revenue for the company.And we all know that SoE loves their $.$

SiegaPlays

12-10-2011, 10:07 AM

<cite>Amekoi wrote:</cite><blockquote>where you rent the space for so long before it expires and you must pay to unlock it again</blockquote>I have always been against unlocking inventory slots, but this approach I would approve of.It is actually what I am doing already. I just call it gold sub, and I unlock all my inventory space one month at the time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />But I can see it work for some people for slots only.

thesiren

12-10-2011, 10:27 AM

Silvers and bronzes have been asking to have the plat cap unlocked since Extended launched 16 months ago.Not happening.It's about the only tenuous hold SOE has over subbers; even the AA slider being locked isn't as big a deal because you can catch up to 300 (320) AAs after you ding 90. If SOE made the plat cap a one-time unlock, no one would sub anymore.Someone on the Extended forums put it best: Buying a brand-new truck for $10 would be great...for the buyer. For the seller? Not so much. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /> SOE wants you to pay for years, not once, lol.You know, all this stuff that is the "shiny new topic of the week" for unknowing live players has been discussed for 16 months straight already, sorry to break it to everyone. It's like getting flung back in a time machine almost a year and a half, reading these boards, lol. You'd think live players would have looked to be more informed about a model that has been in existence for so long in their very own game.

skuext

12-10-2011, 10:37 AM

i just want mastercrafted legenday items usable by silvers ...........come on..... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Amekoi

12-10-2011, 10:55 AM

<cite>skuext wrote:</cite><blockquote>i just want mastercrafted legenday items usable by silvers ...........come on..... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I thought it was the intent to make anything with a mastercrafted tag useable by silver.If this isn't the case, then yeah... why isn't this useable?

Gravy

12-10-2011, 11:01 AM

<cite>Amekoi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>skuext wrote:</cite><blockquote>i just want mastercrafted legenday items usable by silvers ...........come on..... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I thought it was the intent to make anything with a mastercrafted tag useable by silver.If this isn't the case, then yeah... why isn't this useable?</blockquote>There are items that are Mastercrafted Legendary and cannot be used by Silver unless they are unlocked. This includes some basic items like quivers.

Friyja

12-10-2011, 12:00 PM

<cite>thesiren wrote:</cite><blockquote>SOE wants you to pay for years, not once, lol.</blockquote>Yes, but what they are getting is, in some cases, paying not at all. The holds that SOE has over subbers is actually that the game is very good and that it is way, way cheaper to sub if you are a serious player beyond a certain point. I disagree that such changes are likely to impact subscriptions.<cite>thesiren wrote:</cite><blockquote>You know, all this stuff that is the "shiny new topic of the week" for unknowing live players has been discussed for 16 months straight already, sorry to break it to everyone. It's like getting flung back in a time machine almost a year and a half, reading these boards, lol. You'd think live players would have looked to be more informed about a model that has been in existence for so long in their very own game.</blockquote>I was around for that and realize that these are not new suggestions. It's my thought, though, that now, with the whole game on the same model such questions might be received differently, and with the whole of the community able to react to them, we might come up with a different consensus.

Friyja

12-10-2011, 12:01 PM

<cite>SiegaPlays wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amekoi wrote:</cite><blockquote>where you rent the space for so long before it expires and you must pay to unlock it again</blockquote>I have always been against unlocking inventory slots, but this approach I would approve of.</blockquote> Ew. I hate that. The one-time unlocks for the AA slider, though... that's not such a bad idea.

melaine_dvarvensplitter

12-10-2011, 12:18 PM

Actually on the plat unlocks do it something like... 5p per level for 200SC ... 10p per level for 250 SC and max it at 75p for 1000SC .. Not for the account but per toon.This would generate good money for SOE and also give people the incentive to either sub or spend great amounts of cash.I know if I went silver I would pay over 4,000 USD for just plat unlocks lol. 40 toons and 4 open slot not yet used lol.

Nynaeve

12-10-2011, 12:31 PM

All what the OP wants is simply geared towards being able to play a character in the same quality as a subscribed player for a few bucks.Obviously such an "improvement" is nowhere in the interest of SOE, nor does it benefit the players in the long run, because it will turn EQ2 into a game that doesn't generate much revenue, thus get less updates , and kill it off.I understand that everybody dreams about paying $20 for removing ALL f2p restrictions, but that wont happen unless SOE is suicidal - which I hope they aren't despite the recent mega kneefalls SJ did with his gifts to returning vets. And NO, selling "fluff" in the shop wont keep any game alive as the only income.

Ahlana

12-10-2011, 12:34 PM

With plat unlocks there would be no point in subbing at all IMO.It is really the only thing left to get one to sub. I mean SOE gives away the farm pretty much in their F2P model. I am unsure how anyone can think it is not adequate enough.

eneebriated

12-10-2011, 12:42 PM

They have inventory unlocks in the SC store for 150 SC per slot. Would be nice to see bank slot unlocks. The AA slider really isn't a big issue. If anything my aa's stay consistent for my level thoughout the leveling process. Plat unlocks would also be nice but I don't see SOE doing that. Main reason to sub gold.

agnott

12-10-2011, 12:51 PM

Let's make it much more simple.<ul><li>Remove all the restrictions. Every last one.</li><li>Drop all expirence rates by at least half (borderline cruel)</li><li>Sell new experience potions at a price that is well claculated.</li><li>Priced right, dedicated players would be sepnding about $20 a month on potions.</li></ul>Not playing your not paying, play alot you pay a little extra.It gets rid of the sub and the free loaders. Remember SJ says that 90% of players don't buy anything.

captain_video

12-10-2011, 12:51 PM

As already noted, and will all due respect to the OP, none of these suggestions are new. The F2P model has been hashed out at great length (like hundreds and hundreds of threads, some going on for months) ever since EQ2X launched. SOE has been very responsive to player feedback, and what you see now reflects a number of tweaks to the original model based on that feedback.I don't see any further changes being made so soon after the F2P re-launch. The rollout of the F2P client on Steam will open the game up to an entire new community of players over the next few months, and if SJ makes good on his promise to add Steam achievements, they're gonna go crazy. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> SOE deserves a fair chance to let the current system work for that length of time and then look at their $numbers. After the dust settles from the next Velious update, I could easily see a little more fine-tuning of the F2P model.I'll go out on a limb and predict that an unlock of the plat limit is never going to happen. They might consider some variation of the escrow system now being used in DCUO, where you could pay real $, probably the same amount as an equip token, to bank some plat in an escrow account, and then pay again to take some out. There are pros and cons to such a system in EQ2, because the economy is so much larger.

Raffir

12-10-2011, 12:55 PM

<cite>thesiren wrote:</cite><blockquote>Silvers and bronzes have been asking to have the plat cap unlocked since Extended launched 16 months ago.Not happening.It's about the only tenuous hold SOE has over subbers; even the AA slider being locked isn't as big a deal because you can catch up to 300 (320) AAs after you ding 90. If SOE made the plat cap a one-time unlock, no one would sub anymore.Someone on the Extended forums put it best: Buying a brand-new truck for $10 would be great...for the buyer. For the seller? Not so much. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /> SOE wants you to pay for years, not once, lol.You know, all this stuff that is the "shiny new topic of the week" for unknowing live players has been discussed for 16 months straight already, sorry to break it to everyone. It's like getting flung back in a time machine almost a year and a half, reading these boards, lol. You'd think live players would have looked to be more informed about a model that has been in existence for so long in their very own game.</blockquote>It is like a time machine, isn't it?? LOL...no wonder I've been having this Deja' vu-ish feeling all week.Raf

Iad

12-10-2011, 01:14 PM

EQ2X asked for all of that stuff shortly after launch, they don't seem to want to budge.

TheSpin

12-10-2011, 01:40 PM

You have some good suggestions and sensible reasons for making them, but there is one major thing that I believe you may be overlooking.Customers need some type of limitation on their account so that they don't simply unlock everything available and then have free unlimited access indefinately on their character. I think the coin cap is particularly vital to ensuring customers don't take advantage of the benefits of the F2P system.I think the DCUO system is quite good, where all coin earned over the cap goes into an escrow account that you cannot access without paying SC to withdraw coin. I think it may be harder to implement, but I don't really know.

deadcrickets2

12-10-2011, 02:09 PM

<cite>agnott wrote:</cite><blockquote>Let's make it much more simple.<ul><li>Remove all the restrictions. Every last one.</li><li>Drop all expirence rates by at least half (borderline cruel)</li><li>Sell new experience potions at a price that is well claculated.</li><li>Priced right, dedicated players would be sepnding about $20 a month on potions.</li></ul>Not playing your not paying, play alot you pay a little extra.It gets rid of the sub and the free loaders. Remember SJ says that 90% of players don't buy anything.</blockquote>The asian grind model has never, ever worked on NA players.

Griffildur

12-10-2011, 02:45 PM

<cite>deadcrickets2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>agnott wrote:</cite><blockquote>Let's make it much more simple.<ul><li>Remove all the restrictions. Every last one.</li><li>Drop all expirence rates by at least half (borderline cruel)</li><li>Sell new experience potions at a price that is well claculated.</li><li>Priced right, dedicated players would be sepnding about $20 a month on potions.</li></ul>Not playing your not paying, play alot you pay a little extra.It gets rid of the sub and the free loaders. Remember SJ says that 90% of players don't buy anything.</blockquote>The asian grind model has never, ever worked on NA players.</blockquote>yes and the one hit and you level model works so well now.

Untruth

12-10-2011, 03:02 PM

<cite>Nynaeve wrote:</cite><blockquote>All what the OP wants is simply geared towards being able to play a character in the same quality as a subscribed player for a few bucks.Obviously such an "improvement" is nowhere in the interest of SOE, nor does it benefit the players in the long run, because it will turn EQ2 into a game that doesn't generate much revenue, thus get less updates , and kill it off.I understand that everybody dreams about paying $20 for removing ALL f2p restrictions, but that wont happen unless SOE is suicidal - which I hope they aren't despite the recent mega kneefalls SJ did with his gifts to returning vets. And NO, selling "fluff" in the shop wont keep any game alive as the only income.</blockquote>It seems to work fine for pretty much every other F2P except champions online, which is just as heavily locked as EQ2.<div><cite>Mrrshan@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>deadcrickets2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>agnott wrote:</cite><blockquote>Let's make it much more simple.<ul><li>Remove all the restrictions. Every last one.</li><li>Drop all expirence rates by at least half (borderline cruel)</li><li>Sell new experience potions at a price that is well claculated.</li><li>Priced right, dedicated players would be sepnding about $20 a month on potions.</li></ul>Not playing your not paying, play alot you pay a little extra.It gets rid of the sub and the free loaders. Remember SJ says that 90% of players don't buy anything.</blockquote>The asian grind model has never, ever worked on NA players.</blockquote>yes and the one hit and you level model works so well now.<div></div></blockquote></div>Whats your trick? Getting PLed on double exp week by an SK with an exp pot popped? At the 50/50 split I find that I need to do almost every single quest in the tier to get by, and need to run the repeatables until they stop being offered.

SOE-MOD-04

12-10-2011, 03:09 PM

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=500111&post_id=5679200" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50011...post_id=5679200</a> Removed for trolling

agnott

12-10-2011, 03:09 PM

<cite>deadcrickets2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>agnott wrote:</cite><blockquote>Let's make it much more simple.<ul><li>Remove all the restrictions. Every last one.</li><li>Drop all expirence rates by at least half (borderline cruel)</li><li>Sell new experience potions at a price that is well claculated.</li><li>Priced right, dedicated players would be sepnding about $20 a month on potions.</li></ul>Not playing your not paying, play alot you pay a little extra.It gets rid of the sub and the free loaders. Remember SJ says that 90% of players don't buy anything.</blockquote>The asian grind model has never, ever worked on NA players.</blockquote>The expirence level would be the same as it is today if you spent $15, $20 or so a month on expirence potions.It's a sub fee without the sub.

SOE-MOD-04

12-10-2011, 03:19 PM

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=500111&post_id=5679212" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50011...post_id=5679212</a> Removed for trolling

Untruth

12-10-2011, 04:19 PM

<cite>Mrrshan@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Untruth wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Mrrshan@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>yes and the one hit and you level model works so well now.<div></div></blockquote></div>Whats your trick? Getting PLed on double exp week by an SK with an exp pot popped? At the 50/50 split I find that I need to do almost every single quest in the tier to get by, and need to run the repeatables until they stop being offered.</blockquote>I am not even gonna bother to reply to you. You lost any credibility when you compare eq2 to an asian grind lol. You have no idea what grind is, trust me.</blockquote>That was deadcricket, not me. So please, enlighten me how you level in one kill?

Morrias

12-10-2011, 04:38 PM

<cite>Ardwulf@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul> <li>Unlock Plat cap. Probably 750 SC per character.</li> <li>Unlock AA slider. Per character, probably 500 SC. The current solution of setting everyone at 50% actually does work fine at least for leveling characters, but some folks like to fine-tune their advancement.</li></ul></blockquote>These two things I think are the most glaring issues (aside from itemization) with SoEs F2P in general, I wouldn't expect either of them for free, but they should be purchasable for a reasonable price. ($15 or less)Hell I might even start playing again if I can pay to unlock the AA slider. ^^

lstead

12-10-2011, 05:12 PM

Customers need some type of limitation on their account so that they don't simply unlock everything available and then have free unlimited access indefinately on their character. I think the coin cap is particularly vital to ensuring customers don't take advantage of the benefits of the F2P systemI'd say you're making the same mistake as SOE, assuming a F2P/Cash Shop system is entirely about driving people to subscribe rather than being an effective and viable payment option in and of itself.Playing without a subscription is what a free to play model is supposed to be about. You pay by the item, by the event, by the whatever rather than by time. An ideal F2P system will have enough "speed bump" costs to cost roughly the same for a subscription as F2P provided the person is an active player. And where the F2P system brings in the money is in that you get some money from people who don't play that often and would otherwise have cancelled.

Dreyco

12-10-2011, 07:04 PM

I think a good substitute would be to have what's called "Monthly Unlocks". City of Heroes did this; where certain limitations were placed on accounts, and instead of paying a subscription, you had the option of unlocking certain areas of the game for a monthly "fee".These monthly unlockers cost you near the price of a subscription, but if a player was casual, they really could save some money by using them instead.So..<ul><li>Unlock All Bags - 500 SC a MONTH</li><li>Unlock all Platinum - 500 SC a MONTH</li><li>Unlock all Broker - 500 SC a MONTH</li></ul><div>To unlock all limited features, you would then pay just as much as a gold sub... but you can pick and choose to go more limited instead on things like bags, broker, and platinum. Perhaps half those prices, and have it unlock a bag instead of all bags, or have a certain platinum alotment increase.</div><div></div><div>Otherwise, I don't agree that the F2P model needs to be any more open. Sony is not going to give you full access to the game at no cost. To think otherwise is foolish, and selfish; as though for whatever reason you deserve to be able to play the game for a small one time fee, forever, with all the content updates and trappings that come with it at no additional cost. Ain't going to happen. But there are options that still give them revenue without requiring a full-blown subscription.</div>

Iad

12-10-2011, 07:32 PM

<cite>Morrias@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>These two things I think are the most glaring issues (aside from itemization) with SoEs F2P in general, I wouldn't expect either of them for free, but they should be purchasable for a reasonable price. ($15 or less)Hell I might even start playing again if I can pay to unlock the AA slider. ^^</blockquote>Yep, and we've been asking for both for over a year. SoE just doesn't get it sometimes.

Tollymore

12-10-2011, 07:33 PM

<cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote><div></div><div>Otherwise, I don't agree that the F2P model needs to be any more open. Sony is not going to give you full access to the game at no cost. To think otherwise is foolish, and selfish; as though for whatever reason you deserve to be able to play the game for a small one time fee, forever, with all the content updates and trappings that come with it at no additional cost. Ain't going to happen. But there are options that still give them revenue without requiring a full-blown subscription.</div></blockquote>All of SOE's silver limits are petty, annoying and - most of all - easy to evade.Plat limit - dont use plat. Use high-end fuels, or high-end mats if you dont mind a little volatility in your store of value.Bank slots - make two, three, many Bronze accounts, and put them into a one-time-fee guild. Use the guild bank rather than the mailbox as the clearinghouse, or two-box and do the trade in person from your in-another-guild main.AA slider - just deal. Once you hit the cap, it's all AA all the time anyway.While they did indeed give away the farm content wise - and as a side point, this meant they dont have a direct financial incentive to put out more dungeon content players want the way Turbine do - their eventual great decision to make this game pay-for-win with Attunement Tokens is the reason that the game will never be costless.These days, every time a dragon dies, you hear a faint ker-ching as SOE sees another batch of attunement tokens purchased.So, yes. Sell bank slots the way you sell character slots. Sell AA slider movers the way you sell attunement tokens. Sell total platinum upgrades the way you sell class packs.But most of all, sell.

Dawkitty

12-10-2011, 08:03 PM

One major thing people overlook is churn. Churn is the primary reason why mmos that offer full unlocks for microtransactions work. With so many people willing to spend a decent amount of cash to play a character for "free" perpetually, not all of them will log in every day for several hours a day like some people with subscriptions do. They represent a high income, but relatively low impact on server usage.Really, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to not offer all of these unlocks for a moderately high price. As much as people like to complain about freeloaders, it will be a very, VERY small group of players that will only play consistently at the base option. And once a person spends some money, they're more likely to spend more, either by getting the sub, or buying unlocks. And I find it silly to punish those who don't want to spend a monthly sub fee, but are willing to spend money in bits and chunks.

captain_video

12-10-2011, 08:09 PM

Everyone who is whining on this thread has had 16 months to try out EQ2X and give their feedback. The formula SOE is using now has already proven to be financially successful. Just look at server pops today, all of four days after the GU went live, and pretty much everything is showing heavy. How long has it been since any of us have seen that? SOE is going to pay a lot more attention to those numbers than to you.And to those who say they've given away the store content-wise, remember that most class-specific content is locked, you first have to buy the premium class it goes with. They would actually improve their marketing strategy by re-labelling the class unlocks as DLCs, to match what is already being done in DCUO.

Altom

12-10-2011, 08:12 PM

<cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote>...as though for whatever reason you deserve to be able to play the game for a small one time fee, forever, with all the content updates and trappings that come with it at no additional cost. Ain't going to happen. But there are options that still give them revenue without requiring a full-blown subscription.</blockquote>This, however, is exactly the case with each and every non-online game you buy, for example, and in an only very slightly borader sense this is what games of this type are competing against as well; also, you don't quite get "all the content updates and trappings at no additional cost", since there are expansions and so on that you would need to purchase separately, and, of course, the happier you are with your current in-game experience, the more likely you would be to get them.I am not entirely sure what "deserving" is supposed to mean in this context, by the way.And, also - my kudos to the original poster on this thread for a very sensible, logical and, the word "constructive" comes to mind, post. Grats.Edit: By the way, the previously suggested somewhere on this thread idea of gold cap, not removal, but raising, for a certain fee, just might have some merit to it...

Friyja

12-11-2011, 07:02 AM

OK, I think we have had the start of a meaningful discussion, let's keep it up! A couple of points:There's been an idea raised that the f2p model, after over a year of Extended, is now somehow set and will not evolve hereafter. Businesses simply do not operate that way; you're always cognizant that whatever you are doing is not perfect and are trying to improve it. See business principles like ISO, Lean, Six Sigma, etc.As I have already said, obviously these are not new suggestions, and I understand that some will feel these things have already been discusssed to death. But I think we are dealing with a different animal now that the whole game is on the new model. For one, there is no old model anymore (although subscribers can emulate it with the Gold plan,) and for another, lots of Live players never bothered taking part in the Extended discussions, so there is the opportunity to gather new feedback from voices that have not weighed in before.No one, at least no one here, is making the straw man argument that Dreyco brings up, that "everything ought to be free/cheap" argument. That argument has indeed been made, but it's foolishness and will get no traction out of me. "Free to play" doesn't mean "free to go out of business." This is why I clearly showed how the sub deal would be, dollar for dollar, a clearly better deal in the original post.Of the items I mention in the original post, I got hung up on the AA slider thing as well, but when I was subbing over the summer I found that my (leveling) characters usually kept it at around 50% anyway. So for my playsstyle I don't think it much matters. What does matter to me, though, are the shared bank slots, which I used the heck out of. To others, the plat cap is a dealbeaker. Which is the point. Let people choose to unlock the stuff that is more important to them.

Raffir

12-11-2011, 11:33 AM

<cite>Mrrshan@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ardwulf@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>OK, I think we have had the start of a meaningful discussion, let's keep it up! A couple of points:There's been an idea raised that the f2p model, after over a year of Extended, is now somehow set and will not evolve hereafter. Businesses simply do not operate that way; you're always cognizant that whatever you are doing is not perfect and are trying to improve it. See business principles like ISO, Lean, Six Sigma, etc.As I have already said, obviously these are not new suggestions, and I understand that some will feel these things have already been discusssed to death. But I think we are dealing with a different animal now that the whole game is on the new model. For one, there is no old model anymore (although subscribers can emulate it with the Gold plan,) and for another, lots of Live players never bothered taking part in the Extended discussions, so there is the opportunity to gather new feedback from voices that have not weighed in before.No one, at least no one here, is making the straw man argument that Dreyco brings up, that "everything ought to be free/cheap" argument. That argument has indeed been made, but it's foolishness and will get no traction out of me. "Free to play" doesn't mean "free to go out of business." This is why I clearly showed how the sub deal would be, dollar for dollar, a clearly better deal in the original post.Of the items I mention in the original post, I got hung up on the AA slider thing as well, but when I was subbing over the summer I found that my (leveling) characters usually kept it at around 50% anyway. So for my playsstyle I don't think it much matters. What does matter to me, though, are the shared bank slots, which I used the heck out of. To others, the plat cap is a dealbeaker. Which is the point. Let people choose to unlock the stuff that is more important to them.</blockquote>Well at least you show some desire to understand the point of view of the live players, which is something I cannot say about most eq2x people who view everything through their limited point of view without trying to understand that of a very different model.</blockquote> I've been wondering why this entire conversation seems so familiar. I've lived it. Its like re-living the 60's & 70's. The younger generation of change, upheaval and free love ( free to play...LOL) against the staid, moralistic and judgmental older generation.Life is about change and figuring out how to reconcile that change. And its no different here. Something to be said for the claims that gamelife reflects real life, I suppose.F2P is the way the game has gone. No amount of sour grapes and griping is going to change that. F2P allows everyone a chance to experience EQ2, regardless of their financial status. And that is a good thing. Families can now play together without doling out hundreds of dollars per month. In these days and times, where money is tight for so many people, for SOE to make this game free (and it is free...you don't need to spend a dime to have fun here) is a fantastic move.The perks of subbing remain though for those so inclined.That last statement was spot on Shan...but a little off. Let me change it up for you.Well at least you show some desire to understand the point of view of the Eq2x players, which is something I cannot say about most Live people who view everything through their limited point of view without trying to understand that of a very different model.Raf

Strec

12-11-2011, 02:41 PM

By those days, F2P becomes a reference in the world of MMO games (exept one, perhaps). Games still alive (ie : which bring the editors lot of money) are built on the same way : most of the features can be bought.A F2P player will come with some money to spend. He will expect userfriendly auction house (and no such a tax), a good mail service and all usefull current MMO features he has on other F2P games.He will see he can't, that means a no return leave- EQ2 missed his release, SOE cried- Vangard missed his launch too, SOE cried- EQ2 F2P follows this, anymore tears might come soon

Tollymore

12-11-2011, 07:57 PM

And that EQ2X server did such a good job of getting people to give SOE money that they figured rolling it out everywhere was worth a try - especially once they made the sensibvle decision to grandfather old characters, on the theory old players will duck back in to their old stomping grounds, and maybe even give SOE some money.But this is all deja vu arguments from the launch of EQ2X, which - despite predictions - turned out to be a resounding success in bringing life and numbers back to an old game.Enjoy the new players - hit the LFG button and show them what fun it is to group up and beat content while it is still hard.

Griffildur

12-11-2011, 08:00 PM

<cite>Tollymore wrote:</cite><blockquote>And that EQ2X server did such a good job of getting people to give SOE money that they figured rolling it out everywhere was worth a try - especially once they made the sensibvle decision to grandfather old characters, on the theory old players will duck back in to their old stomping grounds, and maybe even give SOE some money.But this is all deja vu arguments from the launch of EQ2X, which - despite predictions - turned out to be a resounding success in bringing life and numbers back to an old game.Enjoy the new players - hit the LFG button and show them what fun it is to group up and beat content while it is still hard.</blockquote>Thanks for the great reply, which has absolutely nothing to do with what is discussed here ...