Looking forward to DYOD [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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screenid

11-18-2011, 08:39 AM

Sooo I listened to the Webcast on YoutubeI think this is going to be an awesome feature!!It will be like Old DND but in 3d =-)~What I heard-anyone one from any lvl can play together (no mentoring CRAP) -love it<ul><li>AOD is not needed to play a dungeon...but you will need it to spend tokens</li></ul>-you can earn experience for your main toon if you complete the dungeon - love it-the dungeon will scale based on the number of players (scales from solo to full group) - love it-you can get new designs(floor plans) from all over Norrath - love it-items in the dungeon add buffs to Mobs and in the future it will be possible to add some scripting (Named spawning adds. or mem wiping , ect ect ect) - love it-mobs for the dungeon will be dropped in game / sold on venders (tokens can be used)/ sold on SC-dungeon building interface - looks awesome!!-Token system will allow you to get items (some will be glass items- meaning they will be Top tier fabled items but over time they go away (you cannot repair the item) --so must keep going back to earn tokens to get replacement items. - LOVE IT - this will allow some people another path to (temp) gear up (so they can hit highend Heroic or Raid content) to gear up. Also there might be a "gift box" with non Glass items-avatars will be earned ingame all over norrath-NOW about avatars -- I understand the Balance issues --- so would it be possible for us to be Imbuded with the power of the avatar we choose BUT stay in our toons current form? I want the choice to stay in the form of my toon - so at the avatar.... (once selected ) could you give us some option to backwards illusion us to our form? -rating system (shrug) will wait to see how this pans out... I think in the end if you are a good Dungeon Master-people will play your dungeon.--Can you make this cross server?

Rick777

11-18-2011, 09:26 AM

<cite>Arduous@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>-NOW about avatars -- I understand the Balance issues --- so would it be possible for us to be Imbuded with the power of the avatar we choose BUT stay in our toons current form? I want the choice to stay in the form of my toon - so at the avatar.... (once selected ) could you give us some option to backwards illusion us to our form? </blockquote>Kinda funny even the most hardcore fanboy of DYOD is still asking if they can use their own toon instead of an avatar.

Mixxit

11-18-2011, 09:32 AM

gotta admit though in eq1 the dwarf and goblin missions were kind of fun!

Felynx

11-18-2011, 10:07 AM

<cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arduous@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>-NOW about avatars -- I understand the Balance issues --- so would it be possible for us to be Imbuded with the power of the avatar we choose BUT stay in our toons current form? I want the choice to stay in the form of my toon - so at the avatar.... (once selected ) could you give us some option to backwards illusion us to our form? </blockquote>Kinda funny even the most hardcore fanboy of DYOD is still asking if they can use their own toon instead of an avatar.</blockquote>Gotta love it.Rick777 has at least five level 90 toons and he is calling the OP a "fanboy?"

Onorem

11-18-2011, 10:24 AM

<cite>Felynx wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arduous@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>-NOW about avatars -- I understand the Balance issues --- so would it be possible for us to be Imbuded with the power of the avatar we choose BUT stay in our toons current form? I want the choice to stay in the form of my toon - so at the avatar.... (once selected ) could you give us some option to backwards illusion us to our form? </blockquote>Kinda funny even the most hardcore fanboy of DYOD is still asking if they can use their own toon instead of an avatar.</blockquote>Gotta love it.Rick777 has at least five level 90 toons and he is calling the OP a "fanboy?" </blockquote>What does the number of characters have to do with anything? I have 12 90s myself and 2 days left on my account until they actually give us information about the new expansion. I'm more of a troll than a fanboi...though I don't think I get the enjoyment out of it as I should if I was just a simple troll. It just seems that there aren't many positives to talk about lately. Enjoying the game enough to pay for it and play it doesn't require you to defend every decision made by those in charge.Back on point. I missed the webcast, so thanks for the breakdown. Most sounds good. (By good I mean that I'm happy that I still won't need to buy this 'expansion'<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'm curious about the specifics on how much time the 'glass' gear will take to earn and how fast they will decay. I don't like the open ended 'might be' gift box with permanent items.

kahonen

11-18-2011, 10:31 AM

<cite>Arduous@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>-items in the dungeon add buffs to Mobs and in the future it will be possible to add some scripting (Named spawning adds. or mem wiping , ect ect ect) - love it</blockquote>Now that is funny! SOE can't get scripting for mobs right but they don't see the problem in giving other people the capability.The mind boggles!

Onorem

11-18-2011, 10:33 AM

ranga

11-18-2011, 10:40 AM

screenid

11-18-2011, 10:41 AM

<cite>kahonen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arduous@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>-items in the dungeon add buffs to Mobs and in the future it will be possible to add some scripting (Named spawning adds. or mem wiping , ect ect ect) - love it</blockquote>Now that is funny! SOE can't get scripting for mobs right but they don't see the problem in giving other people the capability.The mind boggles!</blockquote>Well as they said on the web cast --Basically you place a banner/fire pit that buffs mobs near it... buff attack speed...ect.In the future it will be possible to have a banner that (say) allows the Boss mob the ability to spawn adds... or Mem wipe every 10 sec. They "dev" team would still create the banner that allows the buff/script . We would not be the ones Writing new Scripts <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> ... ... it will give us more options in the future ....

kahonen

11-18-2011, 10:45 AM

<cite>Arduous@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>kahonen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arduous@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>-items in the dungeon add buffs to Mobs and in the future it will be possible to add some scripting (Named spawning adds. or mem wiping , ect ect ect) - love it</blockquote>Now that is funny! SOE can't get scripting for mobs right but they don't see the problem in giving other people the capability.The mind boggles!</blockquote>Well as they said on the web cast --Basically you place a banner/fire pit that buffs mobs near it... buff attack speed...ect.In the future it will be possible to have a banner that (say) allows the Boss mob the ability to spawn adds... or Mem wipe every 10 sec. They "dev" team would still create the banner that allows the buff/script . We would not be the ones Writing new Scripts <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> ... ... it will give us more options in the future ....</blockquote>... which you will only have if they actually bother to implement those options and then, of course, you'll have to pay for them. Not really something to look forward to about DYOD now is it?

screenid

11-18-2011, 10:45 AM

<cite>Onorem wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>kahonen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arduous@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>-items in the dungeon add buffs to Mobs and in the future it will be possible to add some scripting (Named spawning adds. or mem wiping , ect ect ect) - love it</blockquote>Now that is funny! SOE can't get scripting for mobs right but they don't see the problem in giving other people the capability.The mind boggles!</blockquote>I don't mind SOE giving people power. Reforging is a great idea. It's just unfortunate that they expect us to pay to do what they should have to begin with.</blockquote>Shrug - I think we will see some great things come from the PLAYERS. DEVs have to try and please everyone... Players don't have to worry about that <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> ... I look forward to seeing what is created.

screenid

11-18-2011, 10:48 AM

<cite>kahonen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arduous@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>kahonen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arduous@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>-items in the dungeon add buffs to Mobs and in the future it will be possible to add some scripting (Named spawning adds. or mem wiping , ect ect ect) - love it</blockquote>Now that is funny! SOE can't get scripting for mobs right but they don't see the problem in giving other people the capability.The mind boggles!</blockquote>Well as they said on the web cast --Basically you place a banner/fire pit that buffs mobs near it... buff attack speed...ect.In the future it will be possible to have a banner that (say) allows the Boss mob the ability to spawn adds... or Mem wipe every 10 sec. They "dev" team would still create the banner that allows the buff/script . We would not be the ones Writing new Scripts <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> ... ... it will give us more options in the future ....</blockquote>... which you will only have if they actually bother to implement those options and then, of course, you'll have to pay for them. Not really something to look forward to about DYOD now is it?</blockquote>=-) I am going to remain positive ...

Rick777

11-18-2011, 12:04 PM

screenid

11-18-2011, 12:32 PM

<cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Felynx wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arduous@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>-NOW about avatars -- I understand the Balance issues --- so would it be possible for us to be Imbuded with the power of the avatar we choose BUT stay in our toons current form? I want the choice to stay in the form of my toon - so at the avatar.... (once selected ) could you give us some option to backwards illusion us to our form? </blockquote>Kinda funny even the most hardcore fanboy of DYOD is still asking if they can use their own toon instead of an avatar.</blockquote>Gotta love it.Rick777 has at least five level 90 toons and he is calling the OP a "fanboy?" </blockquote>Oh I didn't mean any offense to the OP at all, my comment was directed towards SOE and using avatars in the DYOD's. I thought it would be pretty apparent. As for fanboy heck yeah I'm a fanboy and proud of it, wouldn't have it any other way.</blockquote>No offense was taken Way I see it--- if you are still playing (you are a fan) of the game in some form or another. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" />

Elinea

11-18-2011, 12:40 PM

<cite>Alluvial@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>gotta admit though in eq1 the dwarf and goblin missions were kind of fun!</blockquote>My favorite was the zombie one in Rivervale. BRAAAAAINS!

Valdaglerion

11-18-2011, 01:27 PM

There seems to be a lot of good things wrapped up in this first version of the DYOD system.Clarification on scripting - they said there will not be scripting but a way of controlling mobs behavior through objects. They want the majority of players to have the ability to build on these things and not have to learning programming and/or scripting languages.They clarified the way AA / XP is earned. All objects used to build a dungeon are given point values, when you exit the dungeon those points you acquire by way of defeating mobs in the dungeon are converted to AA / XP for your live character. This could mean the creation of some truly great grinding dungeons because they are not implementing lock-outs. Find a dungeon you like and you can grind it til your eyes bleed if you want to. This is really only possible because they have maintained more control over the mob : player power balance. The avatars they have designed are balanced against the mobs designed for use (all of which is level 50 btw). This moves more into skill base vs depending on overpowered gear and underpowered content.You wont need to ask about crit mit, crit chance, dps or anything else to put together groups for these but you will need to know the avatars and how they play together when deciding who in your group is going to use which avatar.The difficult scaling sounds positive. Mobs difficulty scales based on number of people in this dungeon and rescales dynamically. Zone in with a full 6 man group the mobs are harder, few people leave the mobs tune down, go solo and the mobs are solo level. This is something which, if applied to the dungeons SOE creates at various levels could create a lot of new content for all play styles.Glass item rewards are brilliant. How many threads have we seen where people say they want death to have some detriment?? Careful what you wish for . . .it was stated the items can not be repaired which leads me to believe they have a shelf life of 10 deaths and they are broken and poof. Like a consumable weapon.Mystery boxes - again, brilliant. How many of us bought untold numbers of those in Runnyeye wondering how many it took to get something or how often we would get something? A chance at getting a best or near best in slot item? Sure, I'll take that chance.Using the premade system for version 1 seems like a good choice. You know the architecture and artwork will be sound, what builders are going to have to learn is pacing, mob density and learn the avatars power and capability.SOE should have worked on dev kits for players years ago and quite honestly, this can be a huge feedback tool for SOE. They are applying the house ranking system which is controlled by the players. They would be absolutely remiss if they were not sending their designers through the top rated player made dungeons to see what was appealing to the players.Am I a fanboi? I am definitely optimistically hopeful. I am a fan of player made content because so often the fans know what they want and no way of making it happen. But it really comes down to the tools players are given to create content. Skipping through any number of houses on the servers shows you the creativity pool of the player base, its a matter of translating that to usable content.Time will tell but unlike Talathion, I am looking forward to the success of this feature which in turn will provide reason to allocate resources towards future development of player made content. The failure of it would likely ensure the continued bottleneck of content available through official development only.

kahonen

11-18-2011, 01:44 PM

<cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>They clarified the way AA / XP is earned. All objects used to build a dungeon are given point values, when you exit the dungeon those points you acquire by way of defeating mobs in the dungeon are converted to AA / XP for your live character. This could mean the creation of some truly great grinding dungeons because they are not implementing lock-outs. Find a dungeon you like and you can grind it til your eyes bleed if you want to. This is really only possible because they have maintained more control over the mob : player power balance. The avatars they have designed are balanced against the mobs designed for use (all of which is level 50 btw). This moves more into skill base vs depending on overpowered gear and underpowered content.</blockquote>And there, in the simplest possible terms, you have a description of what many people see as a fundamental problem with the whole concept.A system is being introduced which effectively allows someone to rerun a dungeon time after time after time, using a toon other than his own and gain AA and XP for his own toon from doing it.Having a toon at level 90 should mean something! It should indicate time spent on that toon and be some kind of indicator to other people that the person using the toon has at least a basic understanding of how the class works. It doesn't any more: it just indicates that the person that owns the toon has gathered enough XP and AA from SOMEWHERE that he/she has chosen to allocate to that toon. It wouldn't even be so bad if you were forced to allocate the XP/AA gained to a toon of the same class as the avatar you used, but it appears that even this hasn't even been considered.How, for example, could you possibly justify having a level 90 warden as a result of repeatedly using a pre-rolled bruiser avatar in a no-risk dungeon?There has always been a cross-section of players accused of having toons they bought on e-Bay. All this new feature will do is widen that category.

screenid

11-18-2011, 02:04 PM

<cite>kahonen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>They clarified the way AA / XP is earned. All objects used to build a dungeon are given point values, when you exit the dungeon those points you acquire by way of defeating mobs in the dungeon are converted to AA / XP for your live character. This could mean the creation of some truly great grinding dungeons because they are not implementing lock-outs. Find a dungeon you like and you can grind it til your eyes bleed if you want to. This is really only possible because they have maintained more control over the mob : player power balance. The avatars they have designed are balanced against the mobs designed for use (all of which is level 50 btw). This moves more into skill base vs depending on overpowered gear and underpowered content.</blockquote>And there, in the simplest possible terms, you have a description of what many people see as a fundamental problem with the whole concept.A system is being introduced which effectively allows someone to rerun a dungeon time after time after time, using a toon other than his own and gain AA and XP for his own toon from doing it.Having a toon at level 90 should mean something! It should indicate time spent on that toon and be some kind of indicator to other people that the person using the toon has at least a basic understanding of how the class works. It doesn't any more: it just indicates that the person that owns the toon has gathered enough XP and AA from SOMEWHERE that he/she has chosen to allocate to that toon. It wouldn't even be so bad if you were forced to allocate the XP/AA gained to a toon of the same class as the avatar you used, but it appears that even this hasn't even been considered.How, for example, could you possibly justify having a level 90 warden as a result of repeatedly using a pre-rolled bruiser avatar in a no-risk dungeon?There has always been a cross-section of players accused of having toons they bought on e-Bay. All this new feature will do is widen that category.</blockquote><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> It is so easy to lvl in this game... I doubt this will have any impact.

Puddlejump

11-18-2011, 02:54 PM

<cite>Arduous@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>It will be like Old DND but in 3d =-)~What I heard-anyone one from any lvl can play together (no mentoring CRAP) -love it<ul><li>AOD is not needed to play a dungeon...but you will need it to spend tokens</li></ul>--Can you make this cross server?</blockquote>I'm really looking forward to this too! Not necessarily because of exactly how it is being implemented, though I have few problems with that, but because of the potential for the future. I was happy to hear non-AoD purchasers will be able to play in them, I hadn't expected that.Cross-server sounds like something good for the future - maybe there could be a "best of" selection of dungeons made available to all servers every so often, based on each server's ratings.

Noviets

11-18-2011, 03:16 PM

I love this thread, you guys have expressed exactly my thoughts on this aswell.I still, too, remain optimistic, and can't wait for this awesome feature to hit live, I just hope that we are able to have a good amount of control over the scripts of named, trash, and zone in general, likes levers, doors, steam vents, etc. The ability for a named to "Pull-In" determined adds into a fight if not cleared before doing so. Killing a named to unlock a door, or a key that spawns randomly in the zone that is required to open doors, or unlock something important.There's never such a thing as too much control over the Dungeons, Make it simple, but also add an advanced user interface so really determined and dedicated players that want to make the best of the best have the means to do so. It would be very dissapointing to go into a zone that you can only place pre-made objects, or select from a list of pre-made scripts, that cannot be modified, or customised in any way. If that is the case, atleast have a massive variety to choose from, otherwise you will have millions of dungeons that are pratically identical.You should also consider a voting system to be put in-place like the house voting, but give us the ability to vote a dungeon if its been made to be exploited. (Like having all the named in a seperate room without any trash near by, or trash that is triggered to respawn, or something, so it cannot be farmed, I'm not sure if this is a good idea or not to implement, but I do see this as being a possible exploit)But please add an Advanced user interface (Like the Options window) to show additional options for people that DO have a basic understanding of programming/scripting to make minor changes to exisiting scripts, to add variety to your own custom dungeon. This is my main, and only true concern that I have; Limitations...

Rick777

11-18-2011, 03:27 PM

<cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>They clarified the way AA / XP is earned. All objects used to build a dungeon are given point values, when you exit the dungeon those points you acquire by way of defeating mobs in the dungeon are converted to AA / XP for your live character. This could mean the creation of some truly great grinding dungeons because they are not implementing lock-outs. Find a dungeon you like and you can grind it til your eyes bleed if you want to. This is really only possible because they have maintained more control over the mob : player power balance. The avatars they have designed are balanced against the mobs designed for use (all of which is level 50 btw). This moves more into skill base vs depending on overpowered gear and underpowered content.</blockquote>This is interesting to me because it will become one more avenue, in addition to the MANY, for players to level up to 90/300 with no experience in grouping.Honestly I hear everything you are saying about the DYOD and I agree with most of it except for the whole avatar thing. Why oh why didn't SOE just figure out a way for us to play our real toons? I think the scalability of them is great, you can solo them, or 6 man or anything in between, finally a way for a 2-4 man group to get somewhere instead of sitting in level chat LFM. It's just that the entire idea loses so much with the avatar, it's like telling me to get gear for my EQ2 character I have to log off and go play Bejeweled for 6 hours, why would I ever want to do that? What makes it worse is that SOE has demonstrated how incredibly boring their avatar systems are, I always think of the solo shard mission in TSO with the purple guy with 3 spells.The only way DYOD is going to work is if either they lure people in with great gear like they did with BG's, or if they truly implement a good/fun avatar system. I'm curious to see how they really do handle avatars, if they make them corny and not fun as they have so far then I'll run far away, but maybe just maybe a dev has finally broken outside of the box and invented something new, one can only hope.

Golbezz

11-18-2011, 03:51 PM

<cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only way DYOD is going to work is if either they lure people in with great gear like they did with BG's, or if they truly implement a good/fun avatar system. I'm curious to see how they really do handle avatars, if they make them corny and not fun as they have so far then I'll run far away, but maybe just maybe a dev has finally broken outside of the box and invented something new, one can only hope.</blockquote>I think it will prove as popular as the arena play with the pets from DoF. Players thought it was cool for maybe a few weeks and then lost interest.This feature would be too open to exploiting if the gear was really good. Players would just design an easy zone to gear up alts so it would make sense that gear probably won't be too powerful.

Rainmare

11-18-2011, 06:23 PM

the reason you can't bring your actual toons is becuase of the massive variations in player power. they explained it like take 2 level 40 toons. one has 100 aa, one has 150 aa. those extra 50 aa can make the second toon able to do things the first one doesn't have a prayer doing. then add in gear to that.player power on our own toons is just way to scattered and varied to be able to make player content viable without them basically quitting and telling us to write the game ourselves.as to the aforementioned exploit...well it won't work like that. they flat out said some of the glass items will be raid/end tier items. and that they may make them permenantly attainable in 'gift boxes'the thing is though, if you make a dungeon thats got 20 mobs in it that you can mow through, all your get is 20 points.the person that puts in 20 mobs, and then decortates the heck outta the zone with another 60 items, that zone is worth 80 points. however, most all the items it sounded like buff the mobs. so those 20 mobs with the buffs from the 60 items will prolly be a good bit tougher then the plain mobs simply by decorating.basically getting hte point value to a good return on points means the mobs will be tougher becuase the items you decorate with buff them.

CliveEvenstar

11-18-2011, 06:33 PM

As for the scripting thing, they didn't read my full question on it. I used an example of a easy to use player interface for it that doesn't require programming knowledge. Aka. Lego Universe. It allows a player to drag/drop certain scripted commands/abilities to each entity in the player's plot of land. To me, thats very doable and easy to use. Heck it was designed for kids in mind <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> As for not reading the full question, it was probably due to me using Lego Universe as a example. They could easily implement a system for the player so we don't have to learn any languages, its more a matter of resources on their end to do it, and begging from our end to try and push them to do it.As for Avatars, I don't really see the big issue. Who cares if you can't take your fully decked out raid equiped toon in? It's not like there is anything that will drop in the zone for you anyway. Your going in simply to slaughter stuff, if you want it easy mode then do something else, it was stated they are trying to keep a challenge in DYOD's so people would want to do them more than once. They also stated they are looking into ways for future use on maybe allowing people to use their toons in the dungeons. Either way give it time, eventually the dev team will get around to it. I'm more worried about them getting the xpac out, then as they said for next your, going back and fixing stuff they put in already.

Ninna37

11-19-2011, 10:25 PM

<cite>Onorem wrote:</cite><blockquote>Back on point. I missed the webcast, so thanks for the breakdown.</blockquote>highlights were already mentionedbut you can watch the webcast on youtube<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EdLQDWnTLw" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EdLQDWnTLw</a>the webcast didnt mention traps, but a prior interview said traps would be an option<a href="http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/100699/page/3" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/100699/page/3</a>

Gaealiege

11-20-2011, 12:46 AM

The monster missions were popular for all of 2 weeks in EQ1 if that. They were useless wastes of time and development.

SpineDoc

11-20-2011, 10:52 AM

<cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is interesting to me because it will become one more avenue, in addition to the MANY, for players to level up to 90/300 with no experience in grouping.</blockquote>Great, now with all the F2P players we are going to have even more toons at level 90 with no clue how to play their class. SOE should just get it over with and offer level 90 as a station cash purchased upgrade.