New Forms of Progression Needed unrelated to Gear. Improvements to AA system as well. Long post! [Archive]

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Dreyco

10-19-2011, 06:22 PM

It's that time again! Time for the Lengthy Dreyco brand "This is what I think could be drastically improved with the game!" post! Fasten your safety belts ladies and gentlemen, because this one's a doozy.The reason that this one is as such, though, is because I think that the direction of design is taking a fundamental "wrong turn" when it comes to how progression is being, and has been, implemented in this expansion, the last expansion, and the expansions dating back to the Shadow Odyssey. This issue is: EverQuest II has moved more and more to a gear based progression system, and that's problematic. While the game has been improving in aspects of delivering quality story, artwork, etc, this has gotten so bad in my opinion that it dominates the way that people treat the end game; soloer, casual, and raider.Let me elaborate:Currently, and it was a problem with Sentinel's Fate too, people are directed to one place to ... get a set of gear. Either through soloing or public questing.They then make their way to the dungeons in Velious, where they are working for... better gear. Not access to another dungeon. Not a new part of the story. Better gear.They then go to the raid zones, perhaps, or raiders start at the beginning raid to get... better gear.Where they then go to the next zone for... better gear.And the cycle goes on... and on... and on.To top this all off, the system regarding AA's hasn't changed. It's been the same thing with little wiggle room since it's launch. The feeling of specialization is now gone. It's simply a quick boost to your character's power, and if you want to play your character's role in the way that the class was designed, a single, easily selected path with little differentiation between you and someone else.Combine the problem with gear now with the problem with AA's? And you have one very serious problem, in my opinion. And it's a problem that really needs to be looked at.How?<ul><li>Give new AA paths real specialization. IE: You pick a path, and you're stuck to it. Forget the comparisons to WoW's talent trees. They're going to come anyway, and I know that you guys can do it better.</li><li>Introduce new forms of progression. Leadership, zone progression, story progression.<ul><li>You have This wonderful story section of the journal that isn't being used. You can easily utilize it for this! You're unlocking part of the story! Which leads you to X, Y, Z zone! That you couldn't access before!</li><li>Other forms of progression can be introduced too. Leadership AA's and bonuses, Item Progression (Gear related, yes, but you get an item, and you can then TRAIN UP that item instead of having to go for a brand new one), an EQ1 Styled AA system with neat benefits, talent trees, etc!</li></ul></li><li>Take the focus off of gear! Gear should be something that you earn, upgrades something, now you're more effective to do the next stage of progression. It should be an afterthought. You get it, you use it, you feel more powerful. It should not be the end-all-be-all.</li><li>Add in more fluff rewards as part of this progression and specialization! Auras and particles, particular robes/appearance gear/weapons, special recipes that ONLY YOU GET if youmake particular choices during that progression!</li><li>There is nothing wrong with zone progression. I've said this before. If people feel they're living out a story, and that the story progresses with a flow of zones, it makes them feel like they're progressing without having to worry about gear and AA grinds.</li><li>There are probably many other ideas that the community has here which could improve this!</li></ul>But the entire focus on itemization and gear, and a "Been there, done that" AA grind is really the only detracting factor that I have when it comes to playing this game. You've improved the way that quests have been delivered. You've improved the feeling of adventure and excitement by the way you design your zones and quests. But the way that we now progress at the end game is, quite frankly, a snoozefest.I don't look forward to going to that new dungeon anymore because the entire point is getting a new piece of armor. My train of thought is now: "Alright, I need to do a public quest, so I can get the gear to then dungeon, so I can get the gear to do the raids..." From what i've been reading on these boards from raiders, also, that's the way that raids progrses much the same. "I need to go to X raid zone so I have the gear to get the gear from Y raid zone, so I have the gear to get the gear from Z raid zone..."On top of that, I look at the new AA's and I can't help but sigh. There is no excitement related to having broad sweeping "choices" of "+0.5% potency" or "+100 Spell Damage". It's a "click it and forget it" feeling.... and what's the magic in that? It spoils on the great sense of adventure that you have put together for Velious.And it needs to be improved.... Phew. My 2cp <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />TL<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />R:... Oh heck, just read the post! Me summarizing it is turning into just as long of an ordeal as the post itself! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Deago

10-19-2011, 06:24 PM

Too long did not read.j/kYes linear methods has made eq2 somewhat magoo.

Talathion

10-19-2011, 06:30 PM

This progression is boring and a waste of time, might as well make a new game.The items and abilitys change every week, imagine getting something good and having it changed to worthlessness and getting stuck with it?

Dreyco

10-19-2011, 06:35 PM

<cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>This progression is boring and a waste of time, might as well make a new game.The items and abilitys change every week, imagine getting something good and having it changed to worthlessness and getting stuck with it?</blockquote>I will disagree with you. This is new to the recent expansions. There is no reason to make a new game. Improving upon what they have is an entirely valid option, and this post was intended to constructively open the door to discussion on what they could do; be it my suggestions, and others that might be posted in this thread.

Talathion

10-19-2011, 06:39 PM

<cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>This progression is boring and a waste of time, might as well make a new game.The items and abilitys change every week, imagine getting something good and having it changed to worthlessness and getting stuck with it?</blockquote>I will disagree with you. This is new to the recent expansions. There is no reason to make a new game. Improving upon what they have is an entirely valid option, and this post was intended to constructively open the door to discussion on what they could do; be it my suggestions, and others that might be posted in this thread.</blockquote>Its an entire combat revamp, which would change the game, the game is already not balanced, you would be throwing more wood in the fire of it.Current classes with good abilitys would just overtake classes with terrible abilitys.The classes with good AA's would just outshine classes with bad aa's.What about Mythicals?What about class balance?Some classes are actually completely unbalanced until you actually gear them to be competitive.Unlike in WoW, Everquest Lore has always been about equipment.Without powerful equipment, the races playing the game would be swatted away by the gods, but because of our powerful equipment we are able to fight them toe to toe.

Dreyco

10-19-2011, 06:42 PM

<cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>This progression is boring and a waste of time, might as well make a new game.The items and abilitys change every week, imagine getting something good and having it changed to worthlessness and getting stuck with it?</blockquote>I will disagree with you. This is new to the recent expansions. There is no reason to make a new game. Improving upon what they have is an entirely valid option, and this post was intended to constructively open the door to discussion on what they could do; be it my suggestions, and others that might be posted in this thread.</blockquote>Its an entire combat revamp, which would change the game, the game is already not balanced, you would be throwing more wood in the fire of it.Current classes with good abilitys would just overtake classes with terrible abilitys.The classes with good AA's would just outshine classes with bad aa's.What about Mythicals?What about class balance?Some classes are actually completely unbalanced until you actually gear them to be competitive.</blockquote>Please stop exagerating what I posted. This is not a complete and total redo. This is a "From now into the future". Notice I said NEW AA's and NEW forms of progression. If they implement it right, it can supplement current content and be a huge boon to the game.

Talathion

10-19-2011, 06:43 PM

<cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>This progression is boring and a waste of time, might as well make a new game.The items and abilitys change every week, imagine getting something good and having it changed to worthlessness and getting stuck with it?</blockquote>I will disagree with you. This is new to the recent expansions. There is no reason to make a new game. Improving upon what they have is an entirely valid option, and this post was intended to constructively open the door to discussion on what they could do; be it my suggestions, and others that might be posted in this thread.</blockquote>Its an entire combat revamp, which would change the game, the game is already not balanced, you would be throwing more wood in the fire of it.Current classes with good abilitys would just overtake classes with terrible abilitys.The classes with good AA's would just outshine classes with bad aa's.What about Mythicals?What about class balance?Some classes are actually completely unbalanced until you actually gear them to be competitive.</blockquote>Please stop exagerating what I posted. This is not a complete and total redo. This is a "From now into the future". Notice I said NEW AA's and NEW forms of progression. If they implement it right, it can supplement current content and be a huge boon to the game.</blockquote>Or just put balance out of proportion and further ruin it.What your suggestion goes against lore as well as the games play.New AA like that is fine, as long as its completely balanced, which it won't be, which is why their are AA's like +0.5% Potency.Most of my AA abilitys are completely stupid, so I dump everything into increasing my stats like Potency/MA/Hate Gain... I don't even bother getting any aa lines besides ones that increase my blue stats because most of my aa abilitys are worthless. Heck, One of my abilitys increases my AOE Autoattack by 40%, but I already have 100%, so thats worthless to me, One example of poor balance.

Yimway

10-19-2011, 06:57 PM

Your ideas are not bad, however I think this game has matured too long as it is to change.We're simply too set in our ways to move away from item progression. Sure some zone unlocking, some lore between them, things like this could be added.But we can't lock people into specialization decisions at this point, its simply too late. And moreso, EQ2 doesn't have the credability to make sound decisions, stick to them, and not change them drastically as the team members change.What you are looking for requires consitency of design, vision, and implementation, and for all the things this team does well, those I don't feel are among them.

kdmorse

10-19-2011, 07:19 PM

All progression is now gear based. Everything else has been taken away (or obsoleted). Primarally by there being no level cap increase for so long. The *only* way to currently upgrade your character, is gear.Once you reach the level cap, no more leveling...Once you reach the AA cap, no more AA. No more disco. No more killing nameds for white stars.We've been 90 for so long, all our spells are mastered.Achievements are nice, but pure fluff.Sure, not everyone has all of those capped. (Although even the folks I know with 24 toons have 300aa on all of them by now). But even those who don't, will, and then the same complaint will apply.ALL that is left is gear, and that gets singlemindedly treadmilly. There should be more to work on in parallel, we need multiple treadmills. I don't care if it's story, aa, total zones done, levels, new spells, talents, abilities, leadership, skills, just.. something... besides it being 100% gear.Being 100% gear based is getting, disinteresting...

cawalton

10-19-2011, 07:33 PM

<cite>Ynnek@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>All progression is now gear based. Everything else has been taken away (or obsoleted). Primarally by there being no level cap increase for so long. The *only* way to currently upgrade your character, is gear.Once you reach the level cap, no more leveling...Once you reach the AA cap, no more AA. No more disco. No more killing nameds for white stars.We've been 90 for so long, all our spells are mastered.Achievements are nice, but pure fluff.Sure, not everyone has all of those capped. (Although even the folks I know with 24 toons have 300aa on all of them by now). But even those who don't, will, and then the same complaint will apply.ALL that is left is gear, and that gets singlemindedly treadmilly. There should be more to work on in parallel, we need multiple treadmills. I don't care if it's story, aa, total zones done, levels, new spells, talents, abilities, leadership, skills, just.. something... besides it being 100% gear.Being 100% gear based is getting, disinteresting</blockquote>+1 for OP+1 for aboveas a solo-only player this becomes a problem much sooner than for people who group/raid, while I know my playstyle has inherent limitations that must be accepted, I never thought they would actually stop level increases because it had become too difficult to implement, very disappointing to see the reality of it all

SOE-MOD-08

10-19-2011, 07:44 PM

Please stay on topic. Thank you.

Golbezz

10-19-2011, 08:36 PM

<cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote> And you have one very serious problem, in my opinion. And it's a problem that really needs to be looked at.How?<ul><li>Give new AA paths real specialization. IE: You pick a path, and you're stuck to it. Forget the comparisons to WoW's talent trees. They're going to come anyway, and I know that you guys can do it better.</li><li>Introduce new forms of progression. Leadership, zone progression, story progression.<ul><li>You have This wonderful story section of the journal that isn't being used. You can easily utilize it for this! You're unlocking part of the story! Which leads you to X, Y, Z zone! That you couldn't access before!</li><li>Other forms of progression can be introduced too. Leadership AA's and bonuses, Item Progression (Gear related, yes, but you get an item, and you can then TRAIN UP that item instead of having to go for a brand new one), an EQ1 Styled AA system with neat benefits, talent trees, etc!</li></ul></li><li>Take the focus off of gear! Gear should be something that you earn, upgrades something, now you're more effective to do the next stage of progression. It should be an afterthought. You get it, you use it, you feel more powerful. It should not be the end-all-be-all.</li></ul></blockquote>I would not have issues with solo and group based content being less about gear (this might help all those casual players complaining about difficult gear check content) but raid content needs to stay mostly gear and strat based. DoV raiding isn't just about gear anyway. A total noob in full HM gear will still cause a fail condition if they do the wrong thing during a fight, curing a curse for example that is not supposed to be cured.Based on the way people reacted to racial traits being changed way back at the start of the game (demanding a chance to respec when some choices became useless) I don't think being stuck on a path works in this game. Take current AA for example, how many players would quit if they were forced to stick with their original AA setup? Sure they could reroll a character, but how many players would put up with that?More options will mean more work to balance things, if there is any chance for what you have suggested to work then the devs first need to cut down the number of classes to reduce the workload of balancing all these new options.

Besual

10-20-2011, 04:46 AM

EQ2 has been gear progression since the start (once you are at max level). Nothing new here. The only difference is that the gear steps are more classified now: Thurgadin, PQ, Ry'Gorr, Drunder etc.We still have to unlock some zones: For example Fotress Spire requires that you have done the quests in Pools and Ascent. Some goes for the Drunder zones. Doto the lacking interest for keying new people again and again and again and again and ag... only one person in the group / raid must have done this.The problem with training an item and sticking to the traing is the following: The tem will dominate that slot like the mythical weapons did or it would be called "useless". We could solve the problem by adding a now slot for the training item. Then we come to the next problem: A new stat is introduced and somewhat scarce in the expansion (like crit chance once has been). Now you train your item for this new stat. In the next expansion it's possible to cap the new stat. But a different stat is more wanted (for example crit bonus). Sadly you are locked to the now "old" stat you cap anyways. An MMORPG changes with the time. That's why we got the option to reset our AA specs for example.The other option is a fixed item "training". Like the one we have with the coldain ring quests. I would have prefered an adornment as a progression item but since we can't remove an adornment (keep the adirnment and destroying the item) adornments are out.

Banditman

10-20-2011, 09:44 AM

Progression in EQ2 has been linear since Desert of Flames. The last time you had any choices was the original release.

SOE-MOD-02

10-20-2011, 10:14 AM

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=499962&post_id=5647330" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=49996...post_id=5647330</a> Off topic

Rijacki

10-20-2011, 11:50 AM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Progression in EQ2 has been linear since Desert of Flames. The last time you had any choices was the original release.</blockquote>In my opinion, the rigid linearity didn't start until the blue text stats started getting added and overwhelmed anything else. The ultra rigidity set in with the first bit of "critical mitigation" (no matter that it was originally only on raid gear and only needed in harder raid content). The rigidity was cemented into place with the 'streamlining' of stats. There is never any reason to think if a piece of gear would be be a lateral or situational upgrade, it's either the next step better from what you have or it's not. You look that the blue stats and connect the dots on a rigid straight line from start to finish. There are, yes, some pieces which are comparable to each other obtained in different locations, but if you get one, you do not even need to consider getting the other for different situations.However, I disagree that more fluff drops are needed to offset the lack of flexibility. What's needed IS more flexibility and not to have a single blue stat be the be-all-end-all and to have the other stats have at least some meaningful choice in using A over B in thus situation.There has, yes, always been the need to kit out in at least some of the easier content before tackling the harder, but not to the degree it has become.There has also been a trend to more and more a single rigid path you MUST take while going through content. In the lower levels where there is older content that exists in many level ranges, if you don't take THE path while leveling, you hamstring yourself. Getting to the upper levels, there is only one possible path at all in each of the expansions added after RoK. You -must- take THIS route or you don't progress anything about your character. It's a check box. It's not a matter of.. oh I's like to follow this story line.. it's follow this series at this time or no soup for you. The reason I love lower level alts is that I can be meandery and pick and choose where I want to go based on what stories I haven't heard in a long while (or at all).Adding more levels wouldn't solve any of this. Adding more levels would just manufacture another portion of the rigid path and take away even more of the variety and choices which were possible in the original launch and even all the way through to RoK.Does having choices "confuse" the player who is used to only playing first person solo games with a single path (no deviation possible) with gear and other 'progression' increases at specific intervals? Perhaps, but a persistant world MMOG shouldn't attempt to be a first person solo game. It should be something different. But, yes, I know, that's the way the whole MMOG industry is trending (including the soon to be released ToR) and it makes me sad.

Dreyco

10-20-2011, 06:28 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Progression in EQ2 has been linear since Desert of Flames. The last time you had any choices was the original release.</blockquote>In my opinion, the rigid linearity didn't start until the blue text stats started getting added and overwhelmed anything else. The ultra rigidity set in with the first bit of "critical mitigation" (no matter that it was originally only on raid gear and only needed in harder raid content). The rigidity was cemented into place with the 'streamlining' of stats. There is never any reason to think if a piece of gear would be be a lateral or situational upgrade, it's either the next step better from what you have or it's not. You look that the blue stats and connect the dots on a rigid straight line from start to finish. There are, yes, some pieces which are comparable to each other obtained in different locations, but if you get one, you do not even need to consider getting the other for different situations.However, I disagree that more fluff drops are needed to offset the lack of flexibility. What's needed IS more flexibility and not to have a single blue stat be the be-all-end-all and to have the other stats have at least some meaningful choice in using A over B in thus situation.There has, yes, always been the need to kit out in at least some of the easier content before tackling the harder, but not to the degree it has become.There has also been a trend to more and more a single rigid path you MUST take while going through content. In the lower levels where there is older content that exists in many level ranges, if you don't take THE path while leveling, you hamstring yourself. Getting to the upper levels, there is only one possible path at all in each of the expansions added after RoK. You -must- take THIS route or you don't progress anything about your character. It's a check box. It's not a matter of.. oh I's like to follow this story line.. it's follow this series at this time or no soup for you. The reason I love lower level alts is that I can be meandery and pick and choose where I want to go based on what stories I haven't heard in a long while (or at all).Adding more levels wouldn't solve any of this. Adding more levels would just manufacture another portion of the rigid path and take away even more of the variety and choices which were possible in the original launch and even all the way through to RoK.Does having choices "confuse" the player who is used to only playing first person solo games with a single path (no deviation possible) with gear and other 'progression' increases at specific intervals? Perhaps, but a persistant world MMOG shouldn't attempt to be a first person solo game. It should be something different. But, yes, I know, that's the way the whole MMOG industry is trending (including the soon to be released ToR) and it makes me sad.</blockquote>You hit the nail on the head, Rijacki. However, I would like to elaborate on what I said about Fluff.I didn't say that fluff should be a FOCUS on progression, but it CAN be used to add interesting little unique rewards for decisions made DURING additions that have meaningful progression.Otherwise, yes. I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

millie

10-20-2011, 11:49 PM

<cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>This progression is boring and a waste of time, might as well make a new game.The items and abilitys change every week, imagine getting something good and having it changed to worthlessness and getting stuck with it?</blockquote>I will disagree with you. This is new to the recent expansions. There is no reason to make a new game. Improving upon what they have is an entirely valid option, and this post was intended to constructively open the door to discussion on what they could do; be it my suggestions, and others that might be posted in this thread.</blockquote>Its an entire combat revamp, which would change the game, the game is already not balanced, you would be throwing more wood in the fire of it.Current classes with good abilitys would just overtake classes with terrible abilitys.The classes with good AA's would just outshine classes with bad aa's.What about Mythicals?What about class balance?Some classes are actually completely unbalanced until you actually gear them to be competitive.Unlike in WoW, Everquest Lore has always been about equipment.Without powerful equipment, the races playing the game would be swatted away by the gods, but because of our powerful equipment we are able to fight them toe to toe.</blockquote>every time I see someone use the class balance arguement I want to vomit.This and the whole focus on 'what do I get' if I run that dungeon mentality is what I think is wrong with the community. IMHO it comes from the generation that grew up with gaming consoles.Everquest, and before it 'Dungeons & Dragons' was about an interactive story where role playing and creativity formed a major part of the experience and the amusement. Today the focus on gear to the exclusion of all else and the derision with which 'role playing' is regarded even on 'role playing servers' has distorted the game into something more like a business than a game.

Velenda

10-20-2011, 11:57 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>There has also been a trend to more and more a single rigid path you MUST take while going through content. In the lower levels where there is older content that exists in many level ranges, if you don't take THE path while leveling, you hamstring yourself. Getting to the upper levels, there is only one possible path at all in each of the expansions added after RoK. You -must- take THIS route or you don't progress anything about your character. It's a check box. It's not a matter of.. oh I's like to follow this story line.. it's follow this series at this time or no soup for you. The reason I love lower level alts is that I can be meandery and pick and choose where I want to go based on what stories I haven't heard in a long while (or at all).Adding more levels wouldn't solve any of this. Adding more levels would just manufacture another portion of the rigid path and take away even more of the variety and choices which were possible in the original launch and even all the way through to RoK.Does having choices "confuse" the player who is used to only playing first person solo games with a single path (no deviation possible) with gear and other 'progression' increases at specific intervals? Perhaps, but a persistant world MMOG shouldn't attempt to be a first person solo game. It should be something different. But, yes, I know, that's the way the whole MMOG industry is trending (including the soon to be released ToR) and it makes me sad.</blockquote>It's sad isnt it...I use to think that MMOs were about adventure and exploration. Now it's just a numbers game, with a few stories along the way.I wonder if we'll ever see the RPG come back to MMORPG......there has to be more to it thain thain the gear grind....someday. >_<Millie sums it up so well with this.<div><cite>millie wrote:</cite><blockquote>Everquest, and before it 'Dungeons & Dragons' was about an interactive story where role playing and creativity formed a major part of the experience and the amusement. Today the focus on gear to the exclusion of all else and the derision with which 'role playing' is regarded even on 'role playing servers' has distorted the game into something more like a business than a game.<div></div></blockquote></div>Agreed.

Golbezz

10-21-2011, 07:12 AM

<cite>millie wrote:</cite><blockquote>This and the whole focus on 'what do I get' if I run that dungeon mentality is what I think is wrong with the community. IMHO it comes from the generation that grew up with gaming consoles.Everquest, and before it 'Dungeons & Dragons' was about an interactive story where role playing and creativity formed a major part of the experience and the amusement. Today the focus on gear to the exclusion of all else and the derision with which 'role playing' is regarded even on 'role playing servers' has distorted the game into something more like a business than a game.</blockquote>I would say instances created the problem more than anything else. Back in EQ1 people would group for loot but most often it was for levels or AA. In this game few really bother grouping for levels or AA because unlike EQ1 that is not the most efficient path for leveling.I think role playing is looked down on simply because in general the playstyle is about as far as you can get from a min/max number crunching player that wants to get the most out of a class. Sure there might be some exceptions but most of the comments you'll see on these forums support that relationship between player skill/performance and playstyle.

Kenazeer

10-21-2011, 09:25 AM

<cite>millie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>This progression is boring and a waste of time, might as well make a new game.The items and abilitys change every week, imagine getting something good and having it changed to worthlessness and getting stuck with it?</blockquote>I will disagree with you. This is new to the recent expansions. There is no reason to make a new game. Improving upon what they have is an entirely valid option, and this post was intended to constructively open the door to discussion on what they could do; be it my suggestions, and others that might be posted in this thread.</blockquote>Its an entire combat revamp, which would change the game, the game is already not balanced, you would be throwing more wood in the fire of it.Current classes with good abilitys would just overtake classes with terrible abilitys.The classes with good AA's would just outshine classes with bad aa's.What about Mythicals?What about class balance?Some classes are actually completely unbalanced until you actually gear them to be competitive.Unlike in WoW, Everquest Lore has always been about equipment.Without powerful equipment, the races playing the game would be swatted away by the gods, but because of our powerful equipment we are able to fight them toe to toe.</blockquote>every time I see someone use the class balance arguement I want to vomit.This and the whole focus on 'what do I get' if I run that dungeon mentality is what I think is wrong with the community. IMHO it comes from the generation that grew up with gaming consoles.Everquest, and before it 'Dungeons & Dragons' was about an interactive story where role playing and creativity formed a major part of the experience and the amusement. Today the focus on gear to the exclusion of all else and the derision with which 'role playing' is regarded even on 'role playing servers' has distorted the game into something more like a business than a game.</blockquote>I don't think I would be as vociferous with my characterization of the "new" generation of MMOers (meaning not age but point of entry), but yeah, throwing all individuality out has made it less interesting to a degree. I would take something like eq racials, and real factions (like Vanguard started with), etc... any day over what the 3rd generation MMOs offer. I'm just an "old" far tthough.

millie

10-21-2011, 06:06 PM

<cite>Kenazeer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>millie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>This progression is boring and a waste of time, might as well make a new game.The items and abilitys change every week, imagine getting something good and having it changed to worthlessness and getting stuck with it?</blockquote>I will disagree with you. This is new to the recent expansions. There is no reason to make a new game. Improving upon what they have is an entirely valid option, and this post was intended to constructively open the door to discussion on what they could do; be it my suggestions, and others that might be posted in this thread.</blockquote>Its an entire combat revamp, which would change the game, the game is already not balanced, you would be throwing more wood in the fire of it.Current classes with good abilitys would just overtake classes with terrible abilitys.The classes with good AA's would just outshine classes with bad aa's.What about Mythicals?What about class balance?Some classes are actually completely unbalanced until you actually gear them to be competitive.Unlike in WoW, Everquest Lore has always been about equipment.Without powerful equipment, the races playing the game would be swatted away by the gods, but because of our powerful equipment we are able to fight them toe to toe.</blockquote>every time I see someone use the class balance arguement I want to vomit.This and the whole focus on 'what do I get' if I run that dungeon mentality is what I think is wrong with the community. IMHO it comes from the generation that grew up with gaming consoles.Everquest, and before it 'Dungeons & Dragons' was about an interactive story where role playing and creativity formed a major part of the experience and the amusement. Today the focus on gear to the exclusion of all else and the derision with which 'role playing' is regarded even on 'role playing servers' has distorted the game into something more like a business than a game.</blockquote>I don't think I would be as vociferous with my characterization of the "new" generation of MMOers (meaning not age but point of entry), but yeah, throwing all individuality out has made it less interesting to a degree. I would take something like eq racials, and real factions (like Vanguard started with), etc... any day over what the 3rd generation MMOs offer. I'm just an "old" far tthough.</blockquote>I agree, its not an age thing. My 20 year old son will not play MMO's because of the grind and 'the whole min/max thing' (his words). But he does GM an ongoing weekly D&D game (dice and tin models) in a Cafe/Bar, the participants are a gender balanced group aged 18-23.