Dungeon Finder Improvements Coming on 10/18 (Tuesday) [Archive]

SmokeJumper

10-14-2011, 06:37 PM

Hey, folks,We've listened to feedback and there were four areas we agreed needed to be improved to make the feature more useful. Below the list of those four major improvements:1) The problem: People were joining the DF queue as "Random" and then declining group after group until they got the dungeon they wanted. The solution: If you queue and then receive a group invite...and then decline it...you will then suffer a 15-minute time penalty before you can re-queue again. This solution has no effect on people using the DF normally, but penalizes those that are trying to exploit the +25% bonus XP element.2) The problem: Groups want to change their loot option but can't in a DF instance. (Locked to NBG only.) The solution: All players in a DF group (not just the group leader) can now open the loot options and change settings. When those settings are accepted, it then becomes a "vote to change loot options" and all group members can vote on the change. If it goes through, then the loot options change.3) The problem: There are too many level 90 dungeon options on the DF list. The solution: We still show all the level 90 dungeons, but we sub-divided those dungeons into three groups: Sentinel's Fate, Velious, and General. This makes it easier to queue for the content you desire.4) The problem: In low population times, players can wait in queue for a long time without knowing whether other players are queued or not. The solution: We now show low/medium/high population indicators for each of the archetypes that are queued for a dungeon. So, at a glance, you'll now be able to see whether you need tanks, DPSers, healers, etc. and can either change your character to one that is needed, or encourage other players to do so.We're also probably going to tweak a few dungeons that should or should not be on these lists. (That's still in progress. Details if we make changes.)Once these changes are in place, we will watch and listen again and possibly do another round of changes. We know there has been discussion of group composition and other issues. Those are not being addressed currently, but they are not closed as topics. We'll be gathering more info on those after these changes.FYI. This is coming next Tuesday. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />

Lempo

10-14-2011, 06:55 PM

What about shinies?It is being reported that they are not showing up yet there is absolutely no reason that they shouldn't.

Liandra

10-14-2011, 07:15 PM

and what about key mobs and chests? We did DB earlier this week and neither the key mob or the chest was present.

Neiloch

10-14-2011, 07:53 PM

I've had neither of those problems. Not sure why you would since the DF is supposed to use the same exact dungeons as if you walked in with a pre-made group.Only problem I had, which I bug reported, which was a imporperly made group. We had a 5 people in our group waiting for one more, none of which was a priest or fighter. Either the DF thought rogues count as tanks, or some how the DF tried to invite too many DPS classes. Such as queueing up multiple people for the same spot if the first person offered took longer to accept.

DuneWarrior

10-14-2011, 08:26 PM

Thanks for the update smokie, any chance you - or another dev/producer - could comment on some of the other issues being brought up on the boards as well?

Nekurawr

10-14-2011, 11:11 PM

Juravael

10-15-2011, 12:39 AM

These sound like some positive adjustments Smokejumper, thank you.

WanyenII

10-15-2011, 03:16 AM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite>1) The problem: People were joining the DF queue as "Random" and then declining group after group until they got the dungeon they wanted. The solution: If you queue and then receive a group invite...and then decline it...you will then suffer a 15-minute time penalty before you can re-queue again. This solution has no effect on people using the DF normally, but penalizes those that are trying to exploit the +25% bonus XP element.Instead of pushing them out of the system, leave them in, but move these not so random "Random" people to the DF queue basement, and periodically push those that serve their penalty in the box back onto the ice. If there is a group otherwise ready to go, except for someone who is in the penalty box, forgive the penalty and move on. Otherwise, five other people are waiting for no reason apparent or necessarily due to anything they did.See what I did there...

Neiloch

10-15-2011, 04:01 AM

<cite>WanyenII wrote:</cite><blockquote>Instead of pushing them out of the system, leave them in, but move these not so random "Random" people to the DF queue basement, and periodically push those that serve their penalty in the box back onto the ice. If there is a group otherwise ready to go, except for someone who is in the penalty box, forgive the penalty and move on. Otherwise, five other people are waiting for no reason apparent or necessarily due to anything they did.See what I did there...</blockquote>I kind of like that idea. Let them keep queueing but they get the lowest priority.

Zonavar

10-15-2011, 10:08 AM

Thanks Smokejumper.BTW will it include all level 90 zones? Some such as 'Vigilant 2/3' and others are missing.Also, any chance of including X2 dungeons?"We're also probably going to tweak a few dungeons that should or should not be on these lists. (That's still in progress. Details if we make changes.)"Please don't get rid of the non expansion dungeons such as Sabaron, Silent City and the like please - they are good fun, and decent content. The more choice content the better.

NrthnStar5

10-15-2011, 01:44 PM

What about changing the DF so that member's are not ported to the Dungeon until all six members of the group accept? I hate being ported to the dungeon to only find three or four members. Then we are stuck there waiting for who knows how long for the group to be filled out. I'd rather be questing or what not until the group is fully assembled.

Felshades

10-15-2011, 02:42 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey, folks,We've listened to feedback and there were four areas we agreed needed to be improved to make the feature more useful. Below the list of those four major improvements:1) The problem: People were joining the DF queue as "Random" and then declining group after group until they got the dungeon they wanted. The solution: If you queue and then receive a group invite...and then decline it...you will then suffer a 15-minute time penalty before you can re-queue again. This solution has no effect on people using the DF normally, but penalizes those that are trying to exploit the +25% bonus XP element.You had to know this was coming. This was the first thing that happened in WoW's dungeon finder that got most of the disliked penalties added. I might also suggest that you don't tell players what dungeon they have a group for if they chose "random", but still show if the player chosse a specific zone or group of zones.2) The problem: Groups want to change their loot option but can't in a DF instance. (Locked to NBG only.) The solution: All players in a DF group (not just the group leader) can now open the loot options and change settings. When those settings are accepted, it then becomes a "vote to change loot options" and all group members can vote on the change. If it goes through, then the loot options change.Understandable. So long as it must be a full on "all six people agree". You change loot options and I don't agree to it, I'm leaving if it can be done by a majority rather than the full group.3) The problem: There are too many level 90 dungeon options on the DF list. The solution: We still show all the level 90 dungeons, but we sub-divided those dungeons into three groups: Sentinel's Fate, Velious, and General. This makes it easier to queue for the content you desire.Good idea. Wondered why it wasn't like this to begin with.4) The problem: In low population times, players can wait in queue for a long time without knowing whether other players are queued or not. The solution: We now show low/medium/high population indicators for each of the archetypes that are queued for a dungeon. So, at a glance, you'll now be able to see whether you need tanks, DPSers, healers, etc. and can either change your character to one that is needed, or encourage other players to do so.Neat idea but I'll hold reservations as to how well it works out.We're also probably going to tweak a few dungeons that should or should not be on these lists. (That's still in progress. Details if we make changes.)Once these changes are in place, we will watch and listen again and possibly do another round of changes. We know there has been discussion of group composition and other issues. Those are not being addressed currently, but they are not closed as topics. We'll be gathering more info on those after these changes.FYI. This is coming next Tuesday. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>

Felshades

10-15-2011, 02:44 PM

<cite>Nekurawr@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey, folks,We've listened to feedback and there were four areas we agreed needed to be improved to make the feature more useful. Below the list of those four major improvements:1) The problem: People were joining the DF queue as "Random" and then declining group after group until they got the dungeon they wanted. The solution: If you queue and then receive a group invite...and then decline it...you will then suffer a 15-minute time penalty before you can re-queue again. This solution has no effect on people using the DF normally, but penalizes those that are trying to exploit the +25% bonus XP element.</blockquote>This could be kind of annoying since the Dungeon Finder matchmaker doesn't always handle full group queuing well. Example: Our group just queued up and only the tank got the queue pop. Last week our group queued up, only four people got the queue pop -- the other two got a dungeon queue pop hours later. I'm not saying the 15 minute penalty is a bad idea, but it shouldn't be implemented until the matchmaking is working flawlessly, which it isn't yet.</blockquote>Your problem is an entirely different one than what that change is meant to address.

Felshades

10-15-2011, 02:44 PM

<cite>WanyenII wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite>1) The problem: People were joining the DF queue as "Random" and then declining group after group until they got the dungeon they wanted. The solution: If you queue and then receive a group invite...and then decline it...you will then suffer a 15-minute time penalty before you can re-queue again. This solution has no effect on people using the DF normally, but penalizes those that are trying to exploit the +25% bonus XP element.Instead of pushing them out of the system, leave them in, but move these not so random "Random" people to the DF queue basement, and periodically push those that serve their penalty in the box back onto the ice. If there is a group otherwise ready to go, except for someone who is in the penalty box, forgive the penalty and move on. Otherwise, five other people are waiting for no reason apparent or necessarily due to anything they did.See what I did there...</blockquote>I'm a fan of every single time they queue they get the dungeon they declined the invite for until they complete it.

Elskidor

10-15-2011, 02:49 PM

<cite>Alawi@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also, any chance of including X2 dungeons?</blockquote>Raid Finder is released next month.

Araxes

10-15-2011, 03:29 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey, folks,We've listened to feedback and there were four areas we agreed needed to be improved to make the feature more useful. Below the list of those four major improvements:1) The problem: People were joining the DF queue as "Random" and then declining group after group until they got the dungeon they wanted. The solution: If you queue and then receive a group invite...and then decline it...you will then suffer a 15-minute time penalty before you can re-queue again. This solution has no effect on people using the DF normally, but penalizes those that are trying to exploit the +25% bonus XP element.If I happen to be using the bathroom, let's say, at the moment the DF pops, and I don't get to either accept OR decline within that 1 minute window, am I penalized? Also, I would rather the system still make use of needed archetypes if they are available, than demand that a group of 5 wait for 15 minutes for the tank who was penalized from a previous decline, if you understand what I mean.2) The problem: Groups want to change their loot option but can't in a DF instance. (Locked to NBG only.) The solution: All players in a DF group (not just the group leader) can now open the loot options and change settings. When those settings are accepted, it then becomes a "vote to change loot options" and all group members can vote on the change. If it goes through, then the loot options change.Will this be a "majority" or a "everyone has to agree" mechanic?3) The problem: There are too many level 90 dungeon options on the DF list. The solution: We still show all the level 90 dungeons, but we sub-divided those dungeons into three groups: Sentinel's Fate, Velious, and General. This makes it easier to queue for the content you desire.This seems sensible.4) The problem: In low population times, players can wait in queue for a long time without knowing whether other players are queued or not. The solution: We now show low/medium/high population indicators for each of the archetypes that are queued for a dungeon. So, at a glance, you'll now be able to see whether you need tanks, DPSers, healers, etc. and can either change your character to one that is needed, or encourage other players to do so.I think this will be very appreciated, and it is probably the most useful enhancement out of these four.We're also probably going to tweak a few dungeons that should or should not be on these lists. (That's still in progress. Details if we make changes.)Once these changes are in place, we will watch and listen again and possibly do another round of changes. We know there has been discussion of group composition and other issues. Those are not being addressed currently, but they are not closed as topics. We'll be gathering more info on those after these changes.FYI. This is coming next Tuesday. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>

ThyMajesty

10-15-2011, 05:30 PM

@araxaswhile I understand your concern on 1.) you HAVE to penalize that aswell, because otherwise those that now decline will simply have that timer run out in order to escape punishment@OP1. id like to see contested dungeons aswell in the listI know this isnt THAT important on endgame, althought there is a great contested zone with kael contested, they are bread and butter while leveling upthe instances provided at lower lvls are a joke...my 37 troub has 4 listed: nek castle, divinian throne, cauldron hollow & chamber of immortality....the first two most ppl run exactly 1x for AA, the latter two are done within 15 min....this is ridiculous <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />2. i think its better to raise the CM requirements on certain zones....140 for drunder is imho too lowalso CC should be considered as an requirement, especially for DPS-charssry, but i saw alot of ppl running TORZ for example, where CM says enough, but they had like 20% crits there which means they cant fulfill their job nearly adequate3. some thoughts on already said things: the penalty should be a lil higher i think...not sure, but 15 min is not much, personally i would find 30 mins better....AND the timer on popup should be increased aswell....maybe to 2-3 mins...this would also fix those short-afkers a bit4. generally.... why even ask ppl, if they want to join zone XYZ?ppl that queue for random apparantly WANT to do random dungeon (or want to exploit the system for the +25%). FINE let hem DO the random!no popup upon grpjoin!those who queue for certain ones only already have excluded "unwanted" dungeons, why ask them?just have them join all...or at least keep it vague like "your grp-search was successful. wanna join? Y/N"when grp is filled have everyone another popup "porting to zone Y/N" <- this way you can finish quickly whatevery you were about to do, have someone run for weekly Q etc

Felshades

10-15-2011, 07:17 PM

<cite>Araxes@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey, folks,We've listened to feedback and there were four areas we agreed needed to be improved to make the feature more useful. Below the list of those four major improvements:1) The problem: People were joining the DF queue as "Random" and then declining group after group until they got the dungeon they wanted. The solution: If you queue and then receive a group invite...and then decline it...you will then suffer a 15-minute time penalty before you can re-queue again. This solution has no effect on people using the DF normally, but penalizes those that are trying to exploit the +25% bonus XP element.If I happen to be using the bathroom, let's say, at the moment the DF pops, and I don't get to either accept OR decline within that 1 minute window, am I penalized? Also, I would rather the system still make use of needed archetypes if they are available, than demand that a group of 5 wait for 15 minutes for the tank who was penalized from a previous decline, if you understand what I mean.2) The problem: Groups want to change their loot option but can't in a DF instance. (Locked to NBG only.) The solution: All players in a DF group (not just the group leader) can now open the loot options and change settings. When those settings are accepted, it then becomes a "vote to change loot options" and all group members can vote on the change. If it goes through, then the loot options change.Will this be a "majority" or a "everyone has to agree" mechanic?3) The problem: There are too many level 90 dungeon options on the DF list. The solution: We still show all the level 90 dungeons, but we sub-divided those dungeons into three groups: Sentinel's Fate, Velious, and General. This makes it easier to queue for the content you desire.This seems sensible.4) The problem: In low population times, players can wait in queue for a long time without knowing whether other players are queued or not. The solution: We now show low/medium/high population indicators for each of the archetypes that are queued for a dungeon. So, at a glance, you'll now be able to see whether you need tanks, DPSers, healers, etc. and can either change your character to one that is needed, or encourage other players to do so.I think this will be very appreciated, and it is probably the most useful enhancement out of these four.We're also probably going to tweak a few dungeons that should or should not be on these lists. (That's still in progress. Details if we make changes.)Once these changes are in place, we will watch and listen again and possibly do another round of changes. We know there has been discussion of group composition and other issues. Those are not being addressed currently, but they are not closed as topics. We'll be gathering more info on those after these changes.FYI. This is coming next Tuesday. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote></blockquote>Use the toilet when you queue instead of waiting till right before it pops <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> or wait till you accept it, then afk.

interstellarmatter

10-15-2011, 08:22 PM

Good start!It's gotten off to kind of a rough start. If you keep making improvements, it will become an invaluable tool.One thing as a healer. If the queue time is long, I need some sort of portable AA mirror. That way, I don't have to sit in a heal spec or make the group wait will I go back to my house.

Ruut Li

10-16-2011, 01:40 AM

I like the suggestion that those queing for random dungeon will be auto pulled in to the zone once the group is full, without being asked if they want to. The time penalty methos is flawed; we need MORE players in DF not less.

Neiloch

10-16-2011, 03:52 AM

<cite>Ruut Li wrote:</cite><blockquote>I like the suggestion that those queing for random dungeon will be auto pulled in to the zone once the group is full, without being asked if they want to. The time penalty methos is flawed; we need MORE players in DF not less.</blockquote>I agree but I still think people who bail or decline when doing random should be penalized. That's why I like the idea of putting them 'last in line' for lack of a better term. If they do it but they are the only person playing that role in the DF they will still get picked up fast, but if there is competition they risk a longer queue or not getting a group at all because others had priority over them.While I haven't seen it happen on EQ2 yet, I also think they should look at what to do if a group leader almost immediately boots someone after they join, especially if they do it repeatedly via the 'reinforce' function. Can't have leaders just reinforcing and booting repeatedly until they get a player/class they like or don't dislike. If they're that picky they can just put a group together themselves.

Neihn

10-16-2011, 12:12 PM

Smokejumper in light of the first change are you all going to fix a bug I reported when DF went live where it sent out 7 invites for a DF group resulting in 6 being group and 1 not being grouped. As it stands now because of this someone will be stuck with a lockout timer of 15 minutes since they will just have to leave when they didnt do anything wrong.

MystsofLedge12

10-16-2011, 10:58 PM

#1 is a #$%* bad idea Smoke guythat one is not fair at all... what if your wonderfully scripted DF puts me into a group of 3 necro's 2 rangers and a conjy and i drop group we get punished for your failings... TYPICAL.....I guess i am most of the people are done with your Dungeon Finder... better to do PuG's the old fasioned way tells in the general chat.also we should have acess to shineys and keymobs/chestsDungeon Finder is still a fail untill you either cross server it to get more choices or give us more choices in our group makeup.* the astrik is for the word s uck its apperantly a bad word i wonder how people at SOE drink with straws

Onorem

10-16-2011, 11:25 PM

<cite>MystsofLedge12 wrote:</cite><blockquote>* the astrik is for the word s uck its apperantly a bad word i wonder how people at SOE drink with straws</blockquote>I would guess by decreasing the pressure in their mouths and lowering the pressure of the air in the top of their straws.<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey, folks,We've listened to feedback and there were four areas we agreed needed to be improved to make the feature more useful. Below the list of those four major improvements:1) The problem: People were joining the DF queue as "Random" and then declining group after group until they got the dungeon they wanted. The solution: If you queue and then receive a group invite...and then decline it...you will then suffer a 15-minute time penalty before you can re-queue again. This solution has no effect on people using the DF normally, but penalizes those that are trying to exploit the +25% bonus XP element.2) The problem: Groups want to change their loot option but can't in a DF instance. (Locked to NBG only.) The solution: All players in a DF group (not just the group leader) can now open the loot options and change settings. When those settings are accepted, it then becomes a "vote to change loot options" and all group members can vote on the change. If it goes through, then the loot options change.3) The problem: There are too many level 90 dungeon options on the DF list. The solution: We still show all the level 90 dungeons, but we sub-divided those dungeons into three groups: Sentinel's Fate, Velious, and General. This makes it easier to queue for the content you desire.4) The problem: In low population times, players can wait in queue for a long time without knowing whether other players are queued or not. The solution: We now show low/medium/high population indicators for each of the archetypes that are queued for a dungeon. So, at a glance, you'll now be able to see whether you need tanks, DPSers, healers, etc. and can either change your character to one that is needed, or encourage other players to do so.We're also probably going to tweak a few dungeons that should or should not be on these lists. (That's still in progress. Details if we make changes.)Once these changes are in place, we will watch and listen again and possibly do another round of changes. We know there has been discussion of group composition and other issues. Those are not being addressed currently, but they are not closed as topics. We'll be gathering more info on those after these changes.FYI. This is coming next Tuesday. <img src="../images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>1. Seems somewhat reasonable...but also agree that if an otherwise full group isn't allowed to fill because the only available player is serving some penalty, then that's not great for the other 5 people. I'm not a fan of the bonus anyway, but oh well.2. Is there a limit to how often all players can open the loot options and change settings? I'd be quickly annoyed by the player (leader or not) who kept popping a box open because they want it changed and they're willing to be persistent about it. Is this only an available change before the first drop? What's the timer situation for a zone going to be when one person decides that they want to change loot settings for name #X in a zone, and won't accept that the rest of the group doesn't like it so they grief them by popping the box over and over?3. Should've done it to start with. DoV and recent gear changes have made too many of your lvl 90 zones worthless. Why make people sort through all of them.4. Sounds like a nice change if it works.(Disclaimer: I haven't yet, and never plan to, use this system. Level chat is good enough if it isn't cross-server - though I'm also not really a fan of making it cross-server either.)

Valentina

10-17-2011, 01:42 AM

Having just had a Pools dungeon where 4 of the first 6 queued people all declined to enter, (resulting in two of us having to sit around for a while and then resort to manual invites anyway), I think any sort of solution for (1) is a good one. I'd be in favor of just ditching the bonus entirely too, but perhaps that's just me.

Valentina

10-17-2011, 01:43 AM

Also, we had shineys a-plenty in our instance, so I'm not sure what the issue people are running into there might be.

Shaolin Sam

10-17-2011, 03:12 AM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey, folks,We've listened to feedback and there were four areas we agreed needed to be improved to make the feature more useful. Below the list of those four major improvements...</blockquote>Wierd. They didn't list the BIGGEST change that needs to be made to improve the Dungeon Finder which is to make it cross server so that it's actually worthwhile since hardly anyone plays this game anymore which leads to ridiculously long wait times in the queue.So... to boil it down... they didn't actualy listen. They just decided to make some changes they felt like making and ignore the important stuff <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

NardacMM

10-17-2011, 10:32 AM

<cite>WanyenII wrote:</cite><blockquote>Instead of pushing them out of the system, leave them in, but move these not so random "Random" people to the DF queue basement, and periodically push those that serve their penalty in the box back onto the ice. If there is a group otherwise ready to go, except for someone who is in the penalty box, forgive the penalty and move on. Otherwise, five other people are waiting for no reason apparent or necessarily due to anything they did.</blockquote>Maybe it's just because of the hockey reference, but this makes a lot of sense.Instead of a 15 minute penalty, make it "up to a 15 minute penalty." Or going back to hockey, make it a minor penalty instead of a major.

Keredh

10-17-2011, 02:50 PM

Have actually had a few great groups out of the DF, including one where we worked out strats on mobs none of us had fought before - something I'd not done in years. People were fun, courteous and helpful. (Also had one very weird group where we ended up with a raid-geared wizard tanking, but hey. We cleared ok after a couple of wipes but hey).I had one odd problem though yesterday.Accepted an invite for Ascent and zoned in. I admit it was late on in the countdown timer but was emptying bags at the time and wanted to finish ordering them. I zoned in to a message that there were too many players in the zone. A quick /who before the boot showed that there was already a full group in.Fair enough, just one of the glitches, I assumed. However, the queue button had been replaced with a "Return" even though there was nothing on the lockout list. Whenever I clicked it, it zoned me into the instance with six in and then kicked me out after a few seconds, with the same error message.The DF was now useless and even after a reboot regarded me as locked to that instance, whilst showing it as available in DF.Ker

Koleg

10-17-2011, 03:11 PM

I've actually had a DF group where everyone rolled need on every item that drops including status items and another where someone actually had the audacity to "ask" for a loot on a healer Item for an alt when they were playing a DPS even though the item was an upgrade for the healer present and that healer actually won with an RNG roll.

Crismorn

10-17-2011, 03:54 PM

<cite>Shaolin Sam wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey, folks,We've listened to feedback and there were four areas we agreed needed to be improved to make the feature more useful. Below the list of those four major improvements...</blockquote>Wierd. They didn't list the BIGGEST change that needs to be made to improve the Dungeon Finder which is to make it cross server so that it's actually worthwhile since hardly anyone plays this game anymore which leads to ridiculously long wait times in the queue.So... to boil it down... they didn't actualy listen. They just decided to make some changes they felt like making and ignore the important stuff <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>They cant make it cross server or they would have.

Shaolin Sam

10-17-2011, 08:16 PM

They can. They just aren't doing it "now" due to all the OTHER stuff that's broken. It's been stated by Devs a number of times. Just stinks they can't code their stuff correctly <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Nijia

10-17-2011, 10:33 PM

I was queuing tonight for 2h40m on 6 DoV zones, late afternoon US time (US server).During this time, I got a group in Fortress Spire, ISK, and then Temple of Rallos Zek, all through chat channels.FAIL.1) How does this not affect people whoe use the DF "normally"? You didn't state if the penalty applies only to people checking the random box. If it doesn't, you're going to see even less people trying it.2) Whatever. People always whine about the loot. Don't win a roll? Boohoo. Run the dungeon again! Of course, it's easier to add more options than say "no". Make it more complicated and bloated before focusing on the core issues.3) Too many dungeons on the list you gotta be kidding me? There are tons of missing dungeons. My guess is you decided somehow that too many dungeons would spread the pool of players and make it less effective. It doesn't work for the latest expansion, and it doesn't even help people who want to run the less common/less popular zones. Even more fail.4) I play a Dirge. I'm not going to switch characters to help the Dungeon Finder do its job.

Shaolin Sam

10-18-2011, 12:37 AM

<cite>Nijia@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote>1) How does this not affect people whoe use the DF "normally"? You didn't state if the penalty applies only to people checking the random box. If it doesn't, you're going to see even less people trying it.3) Too many dungeons on the list you gotta be kidding me? There are tons of missing dungeons. My guess is you decided somehow that too many dungeons would spread the pool of players and make it less effective. It doesn't work for the latest expansion, and it doesn't even help people who want to run the less common/less popular zones. Even more fail.4) I play a Dirge. I'm not going to switch characters to help the Dungeon Finder do its job.</blockquote>See that, Smokejumper? Even MORE reason the Dungeon Finder should be opened up to cross-server action. Leaving it as home server only gives you a pool of players that's so insanely small to where it's not even worth using it. Opening it to span ALL servers would actually give us a reasonably decent pool of players to draw from.PLEASE... for the love of GOD... make your dungeon finder cross-server like every OTHER game's dungeon finder that's currently on the market. Theirs all work beautifully.Yours............................ doesn't.

SOE-MOD-04

10-18-2011, 01:07 AM

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=500111&post_id=5646090" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50011...post_id=5646090</a> Removed for trolling

Nijia

10-18-2011, 06:17 AM

<cite>Shaolin Sam wrote:</cite><blockquote>(...) Leaving it as home server only gives you a pool of players that's so insanely small to where it's not even worth using it. Opening it to span ALL servers would actually give us a reasonably decent pool of players to draw from.</blockquote>That is not entirely true. It may be true that on off times (non peak times), cross server would help.Those three groups I did, I should mention I did not create them either!So there are people there starting groups, and they're not using the Dungeon Finder. They're not even queuing their group in the Dungeon Finder because it's a mess.So I remain convinced it is not so much a problem of there being enough people to use it, as a problem of bad design.Again, when I open the Dungeon Finder, I need to see a list of the groups that have been started by other players. Then I decide if I want to start another one myself or join one of the available groups in my range. Each group displays 6 slots with roles that are set by default, but that the group starter can finetune if he wants "utility" instead of "any", for example. Then other people see that group and if one slot matches their class they can simply click "join" and they're grouped. No teleport. When the group is full and the lead is happy, he clicks "enter zone".If I see a name I don't like in a group, I simply skip over it.If I see a group lead by someone I don't like, I simply start my own group.All the while knowing people will ALWAYS see my group in the DF list.Not only that, but you can also send a tell directly to group leader via standard ways if you want to suggest a different roles setup, or want to suggest merging groups to do some uncommon zone or whatever.Add a UI option to "ping" you in main chat whenever someone starts a group in your level range.Sheesh, I should get paid for this.Do you guys need a design document? I got lots of free time.

NardacMM

10-18-2011, 09:19 AM

<cite>Nijia@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote>Do you guys need a design document? I got lots of free time.</blockquote>Write the design doc and post it online, please. PDF would be best.

Cabral

10-18-2011, 09:20 AM

<div><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey, folks,We've listened to feedback and there were four areas we agreed needed to be improved to make the feature more useful. Below the list of those four major improvements:1) The problem: People were joining the DF queue as "Random" and then declining group after group until they got the dungeon they wanted. The solution: If you queue and then receive a group invite...and then decline it...you will then suffer a 15-minute time penalty before you can re-queue again. This solution has no effect on people using the DF normally, but penalizes those that are trying to exploit the +25% bonus XP element.</blockquote></div>This when combined with issue 4 is a bad idea. During high population for all party roles, it's fine. As stated, above, due to the requirements for dungeons that are not examined by the dungeone finder, it may be in the best interest of the group if a player declines the invitation. For example, when I returned to EQ2 (I left shortly after DoV launch due to all the "sidegrades"), after the reitemization, I had around 80% crit mit and 80% crit chance. I doubt I should be tanking any DoV dungeons even if my crit mit met the requirements of the dungeon.Issue: Dungeons use a complex requirements for success but the Dungeon Finder uses a simplified logic when building groups.Desired Solution: Improve the statistic "gating" to, at the very least, filter out people who are unequiped for the dungeon.<div><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>FYI. This is coming next Tuesday. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote></div>You're springing this on us when your solution should have had more opportunity for testing or at least feedback.I would like to see DF tied to a simple access quest. Let's say Pools is a straight forward dungeon with no surprises (I haven't been in any of the dungeons yet so I cannot say). If it is, let's make it freely accessible in DoV as long as all requirements are met (and if they are not, it should say "you need to have x crit chance to ride this dungeon"). For other dungeons, if you have the achievement fo beating the dungeon, it's unlocked. Otherwise, to unlock further dungeons, you follow a quest line. Each quest takes you into to instanced mock-ups of the zone and teaches you the strategy as well as tests you (ie, keep the NPC tank/party alive, maintain agro against NPCs with x DPS, or deal x DPS). Succeed at the quest and you unlock the dungeon as well as get a cloudy velium jewel and possibly something else nice.If you like the idea of a quest line to teach yourself (or other players) the strategy of a dungeon, please chime in on the forums as well as join me in /feedbacking this in the game.I don't use Dungeon Finder because I don't know the dungeons. Teach me the dungeons and I will use it.

Yimway

10-18-2011, 02:04 PM

You still need to filter the available dungeons to queue for by more than just CM. Like crit chance, gear score, or something more meaningful.Too many people are queuing for dungeons they're toons are not capable of doing.The result is either a group that fails for everyone, or a couple of players 'carrying' the group thru it. In either case not a particularly positive experience.

Koleg

10-18-2011, 02:28 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>You still need to filter the available dungeons to queue for by more than just CM. Like crit chance, gear score, or something more meaningful.Too many people are queuing for dungeons they're toons are not capable of doing.The result is either a group that fails for everyone, or a couple of players 'carrying' the group thru it. In either case not a particularly positive experience.</blockquote>..... it takes a village <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Dragmar

10-18-2011, 04:04 PM

so after the patch today i went in and used the df . It sent me into the zone then booted me 10 seconds later saying too many people in the zone . Then i was put on a 15 min lockout from using it wich angered me enough till the timer was over and all it says is return , apparently I can not que back up for any dungeons . I have tried relogging and completely logging out then back in and still no go. Honestly if you can make a system that even half way works decent then why release anything at all. its on all my charectars , they all seem to be locked to the same issue.

ninjatod

10-18-2011, 09:29 PM

Apparently if the client crashes when you are queued, you get the 15 minute lockout.

Ruut Li

10-19-2011, 02:03 AM

<cite>Odyll@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Apparently if the client crashes when you are queued, you get the 15 minute lockout.</blockquote>Yea! Lets have less people on the df! time penalty really fixed the problem with df! cause the major problem with df is certainly not lack of people!/sarcasm off

NardacMM

10-19-2011, 09:23 AM

<cite>Ruut Li wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Odyll@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Apparently if the client crashes when you are queued, you get the 15 minute lockout.</blockquote>Yea! Lets have less people on the df! time penalty really fixed the problem with df! cause the major problem with df is certainly not lack of people!/sarcasm off</blockquote>Right because client crashes happen constantly. At any given moment, there are a thousand people locked out b/c their client crashed. Do i need to say "/sarcasm on"?They had the same problem with client crashes with battlegrounds. It's not the end of the world b/c it doesn't happen all that oftenAll that being said, the problem is obviously lack of people. We need definitely need this thing to be cross-server, but I understand the difficulty in doing so. I was amazed the other day when TOFS:SC was both the hotzone and the daily double and I was still waiting for 35 minutes for SC before I gave up and went to watch tv.

Banditman

10-19-2011, 10:09 AM

I waited for FOUR HOURS for ISK when it was DD and just gave up.

Valonia

10-19-2011, 11:24 AM

The new display of the number of people in the queue confirmed what I was already guessing before: Nearly noone is using the DF on Nagafen, since at least in the T9 bracket all indicators have been dark red these days.My suggestion: Give real numbers instead of color indicators. That way we'd at least have a chance at estimating if it's worth queuing up or if it's better to call it a day.

Koleg

10-19-2011, 01:49 PM

<cite>Valonia@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>The new display of the number of people in the queue confirmed what I was already guessing before: Nearly noone is using the DF on Nagafen, since at least in the T9 bracket all indicators have been dark red these days.My suggestion: Give real numbers instead of color indicators. That way we'd at least have a chance at estimating if it's worth queuing up or if it's better to call it a day.</blockquote>We (the players) all ready know that nobody is using the DF tool outside of fresh level 81+ people and that will not change until the group balancing process is corrected. There is nothing <broken> it was a poor design to the start. level 90 players with adept level spells and quest gear ... HAVE NO BUSINESS ... in group with players in Ry'Gorr to X4 EM gear and Expert to Master Spells/CA's. It doesn't work in PVP, it doesn't work in Battlegrounds and it sure-as-shoot isn't going to work in a Heroic Dungeon Finder tool. *Cough* <hidden> Gear Score *Cough*Once people know they aren't getting groups way over or way under them they will then use the tool and the pool of people will increase. I agree with SJ ... there is enough grouping players on any single server to support the DF tool .. the issue isn't there aren't enough people available , the issue is people don't use broken/bugged/baddly-designed stuff. Making it cross-server with either make no difference or hide the real problem.

Neihn

10-19-2011, 01:56 PM

<cite>Dragmar wrote:</cite><blockquote>so after the patch today i went in and used the df . It sent me into the zone then booted me 10 seconds later saying too many people in the zone . Then i was put on a 15 min lockout from using it wich angered me enough till the timer was over and all it says is return , apparently I can not que back up for any dungeons . I have tried relogging and completely logging out then back in and still no go. Honestly if you can make a system that even half way works decent then why release anything at all. its on all my charectars , they all seem to be locked to the same issue.</blockquote>This is the EXACT same issue I reported the day DF went live. I even posted on page 2 asking Smoke if this was being addressed and apparently hasnt. While I didnt suffer a lockout timer since that wasnt in then, it did prevent ALL my chars from queing for DF for around a hour before it magically fixed itself. Out of curiosity did it try to bring in 7 people 6 grouped and you solo? And was it KD: Iceshard keep? Thats the zone it messed things up for me and I haven't used it since.

Deago

10-19-2011, 06:10 PM

Makes you wonder if other company devs read these boards going../beer/chips/megalols<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />DF will fail and continue to fail unless cross server...or...or..or...did I say or?....They somehow implement mercs to the point where your needing 2 or 3 real people and the rest can be mercs etc.. I can see that in the future and/or station cash mumbo jumbo to add an uber merc for team or something in this nature.You say "carry the team?" your sc merc can do that ! yes sir! for only 2000 sc you can have a 5 charge lv 90 "whatever class" merc complete with superior gear and regen etc...Totally could see that ...yuuup. Would not be anything really different then what eq1 did because the tank merc in eq1 can spank just about any dungeon solo till the upper levels...on eq2 though the sc model will spank it all <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />har har

Shaolin Sam

10-19-2011, 07:56 PM

See that, Smokey? Tons and tons and TONS of people telling you that cross-server is one of the biggest things needed and yet it somehow didn't make the top four items of your things that "supposedly" we all screamed we needed.

Cabral

10-19-2011, 09:19 PM

<cite>Shaolin Sam wrote:</cite><blockquote>See that, Smokey? Tons and tons and TONS of people telling you that cross-server is one of the biggest things needed and yet it somehow didn't make the top four items of your things that "supposedly" we all screamed we needed.</blockquote>I don't see tons of people asking for cross server functionality. I see lots of people asking for fixes to bugs and many people asking for a method to ensure inadequately prepared groups aren't thrown into DoV dungeons.

melaine_dvarvensplitter

10-19-2011, 11:22 PM

I have alts from 20-90 with some at max AA and others still needing to grind out AA, and even at peak hours on AB, I have sat and sit 30min to over 3hrs. Please give us Cross Server and on the dungeons sub 50 make some of the contested dungeons instanced like you did with RE.Great idea still not quite fully there <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Koleg

10-20-2011, 11:03 AM

<cite>Cabral wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shaolin Sam wrote:</cite><blockquote>See that, Smokey? Tons and tons and TONS of people telling you that cross-server is one of the biggest things needed and yet it somehow didn't make the top four items of your things that "supposedly" we all screamed we needed.</blockquote>I don't see tons of people asking for cross server functionality. I see lots of people asking for fixes to bugs and many people asking for a method to ensure inadequately prepared Matched groups aren't thrown into DoV dungeons.</blockquote>I couldn't agree anymore ... Cross-Server is a dumb idea waste of time when you can't get your own server to use it. SOE, you know you use to have a "Will Mentor" checky box on the old-LFG tool .... You HAVE to do something about mismatching groups. You KNOW you wanted to do it with the Gear Score mechanic before it was removed during beta. We KNOW that gear is weighted to some numeric value and gear stats are often referenced in terms of "Cost" and "Expense". You know you still have a Gear Score mechanic internally within the games code if for anything more than Itemization. Its time to do the Dungeon Finder the right way. This thing you released is a joke and an insult to both of us.Its simple math ... You have a tool to match people ... You have an internal way to measure people ... and yet you didn't think that 1+1=2 is a good idea. /boggle

Deago

10-20-2011, 12:11 PM

True. Cross Server at the current state would bring more groups but the % of the fail would be so incredibly high at this point it would be a lol fest.

Neskonlith

10-20-2011, 12:41 PM

Merge all of the servers into single world of Norrath, and no one will need a cross-server tool!<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />

Nekurawr

10-20-2011, 06:18 PM

<cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nekurawr@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey, folks,We've listened to feedback and there were four areas we agreed needed to be improved to make the feature more useful. Below the list of those four major improvements:1) The problem: People were joining the DF queue as "Random" and then declining group after group until they got the dungeon they wanted. The solution: If you queue and then receive a group invite...and then decline it...you will then suffer a 15-minute time penalty before you can re-queue again. This solution has no effect on people using the DF normally, but penalizes those that are trying to exploit the +25% bonus XP element.</blockquote>This could be kind of annoying since the Dungeon Finder matchmaker doesn't always handle full group queuing well. Example: Our group just queued up and only the tank got the queue pop. Last week our group queued up, only four people got the queue pop -- the other two got a dungeon queue pop hours later. I'm not saying the 15 minute penalty is a bad idea, but it shouldn't be implemented until the matchmaking is working flawlessly, which it isn't yet.</blockquote>Your problem is an entirely different one than what that change is meant to address.</blockquote>Late, but I think you missed my point (I'm not trying to attack you when I say that by the way). Last night our full group of six queued for Iceshard Keep. The Dungeon Finder said group queue successful, and yet when the dungeon prompt appeared only two of us got a prompt that moment, the rest didn't get the prompt till hours later. The two that declined were hit with the 15-minute penalty, which, while not that big of a deal, is a bit annoying when the entirety of ISK takes 15 minutes. Ultimately, my point was that the solution to one problem (15-minute penalty in response to those who decline dungeon invitations) also made another problem (group queues not always working properly) worse.

Nijia

10-22-2011, 02:13 PM

Another odd occurence of the Dungeon Finder failing at pulling an entire group.Before I explain let me be clear: I only check Crystal Caverns and Drunder zones for the lulz, because I don't care if I'm locked out of these zones at this point. I've reverted back to LFG/LFM and it's working much better than the Dungeon Finder... When I start Drunder, I will stop goofing off with the Dungeon Finder.So off to Crystal Caverns. It's Saturday afternoon US time, waited less than 30 min. First off, the declines, from Tank and Priest:<img src="http://i.minus.com/iMg7gHW8goNfj.png" width="605" height="217" />We were 3, then one more Scout. Then I reinforce, and strangely, I get a tell from the healer who declined.So I fill the group manually, and invite a healer whow declined minutes before.He didn't mention if he was afk or anything. Possible that he missed the dialog...Still the main point here is: penalty is completely useless.I sincerely hope the devs get the message at this point and stop wasting anymore time trying to "improve" sanctions on the players, and focus on making the Dungeon Finder more usable and attractive.

Nijia

10-22-2011, 02:28 PM

Btw, I did group with that healer before, whom at first declined the Dungeon Finder invite.Is it possible that the DF isn't very attractive because of its "black box" way of pulling people together?In other words, is this approach really suited for the live servers?I suppose it might work better on EQ2X where there's a constant flux of new players, but then again newbies don't get to use Dungeon Finder till level 20!I think a "group finder" that shows names would work better. There is no need for privacy when you're queuing for "pickup group" dungeon run.Seeing names I think would both address the lack of /ignore support for those who want to avoid certain players, and would at the same time encourage grouping wiht people whom you've grouped with before.The main problem with showing names is you have to commit who is in what group at that point (Dungeon Finder logic). And well, maybe a way to solve that is not commiting through grouping the people as it is forming, but by grouping them in a temporary chat channel that is in the dungeon finder. And perhaps adding a new invite command that invites to the forming "group finder" group...

Nijia

10-24-2011, 02:13 PM

So yesterday I queue again for Drunder and ToFS, for the lulz.I quickly get an invite, so I suspect this is a bug and the zone will be empty.But I have to Accept otherwise I get the penalty. Well, I click Accept and what happens? I don't get zoned, and I get the 15 min lockout penalty anyway. Beautiful!For kicks, I click the Return button to see what happens. And of course I get zoned into ToFS with an empty group.When the penatly was over, I had the option to "Return" or "Queue group", was no longer able to queue (known bug)... and then from time to time I would see <soandso> joined the group. Other people getting bugged.This is a HUGE FREAKING BUG, how about fixing it instead of taking down the server 3 times a weak with completely minor changes?

Dreyco

10-24-2011, 06:36 PM

Failed to see this official thread for some reason, so i'll put my feedback here!Things that would improve the dungeon finder, in my opinion:<ul><li>Being a little more lax with the level range. Right now, if a character is level 39, they cannot queue with me for a level 40 dungeon when i'm level 40.</li><li>Make it so that mentoring works with this thing. If you are going to have strict level restrictions, allow people to mentor down to certain levels to fill given roles. This will make queueing for mid-level dungeons less painful, and groups will fill faster.</li><li>And indeed... implement cross server grouping, for the poor people on some of the lower population servers.</li></ul>Granted, my first two points would probably improve it drastically, at least for mid-level ranged.My final point...<ul><li>Allow to random queue for particular dungeon type. IE: I want to get a random dungeon from Velious, Sentinel's Fate, etc.</li></ul>

Juravael

10-25-2011, 06:23 PM

I started to make use of the Dungeon Finder today playing on my 90 Wizard.I spent almost 4 hours queing for any random group in the list. Every instance was checked.I have yet to get a single group that fills and runs any of the instances. Not one.I get the invitations, I click accept and get teleported to the new instance, usually with 1-3 others there or inbound at the same time. I also see a lot of So-and-So has declined over and over while we stand around waiting. Then the ones that did come along leave and I have no choice but to leave as well. I reque.. get the same exact instance. I decline it and then get locked out for 15 minutes..Rinse and repeat for 4 hours.There is nothing fun about this new "feature" that I can see.

Yimway

10-25-2011, 06:52 PM

Repost from another thread before I realized there was supposed to be a consolidated one:They need to remove it from the game immediately.The problem is, it was a great idea horribly implemented. They had an opportunity at critical mass for this thing to work, and since it didn't work right out the gate, hat opportunity is all but lost.If they leave the feature in and slowly tweak it, it will never get critical mass again, people just will not suddenly start using it again, no matter what the patch notes say.They need to remove it, take it back to internal development and re-launch it later (maybe expansion time?) with an actual working and polished implementation. This is the only way I see enough people giving it a 2nd chance at the same time for critical mass to be achieved again.

Ruut Li

10-26-2011, 04:42 AM

I have a feeling they are not focusing on that anymore.

Nefain

10-26-2011, 01:50 PM

The Problem: It's not cross server.

Yimway

10-26-2011, 06:20 PM

<cite>Ruut Li wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have a feeling they are not focusing on that anymore.</blockquote>Not fucusing on which? Dungeon finder, or just polished features in general? =)

Laenai

10-26-2011, 06:25 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ruut Li wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have a feeling they are not focusing on that anymore.</blockquote>Not fucusing on which? Dungeon finder, or just polished features in general? =)</blockquote>^^^ That.And, unfortunately, those of us who predicted this would be a fail due to horrible implementation when they first announced it were correct. Because polished features, especially ones that are touted as something that's going to be amazing and game-changing, don't happen in EQ2 =)I've got money on design your own dungeon being about the same and following the same fate as the arenas, the BGs, and dungeon finder- it won't work worth a crap and we'll drop it like a hot rock, wishing instead that they would fix blatant bugs that've been around for months and creating unique content instead of spending their time on cheap gimmicks that don't work.

Yimway

10-26-2011, 06:28 PM

<cite>Karimonster wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've got money on design your own dungeon being about the same and following the same fate as the arenas.</blockquote>/agree I've already stated it will be the lead balloon that arenas were.The _only_ way I can see it being successful is if rediculously OP gear is achieved by getting enough tokens from DYOD content.

Brigh

10-26-2011, 08:14 PM

Please add a crafting option too. Give crafters a check box for each of the crafting instances. Soloing those things is a PITA just to get books. These instances are so old no one rushes to group for them anymore. I think a revamp of them or the method of obtaining the books is in order.

Juravael

10-27-2011, 04:30 PM

I'm not going to post every time that I que and wait around for hours with no invites but I wanted to make one last comment about my DF experiences today.I que'd up with my 90 Wizard again and sat in the que for 2 and a half hours and did not get a single invite. Yes, that is right. Two and a half hours.I will not be attempting to use this crap feature anymore. It is a joke.

Kizee

10-27-2011, 04:48 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Karimonster wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've got money on design your own dungeon being about the same and following the same fate as the arenas.</blockquote>/agree I've already stated it will be the lead balloon that arenas were.The _only_ way I can see it being successful is if rediculously OP gear is achieved by getting enough tokens from DYOD content.</blockquote>Yep, it is going to be BG's all over again. People just doing them because the gear isreally good for the time invested.I think it would be more of a success if they allowed your real characters to be played in them instead of the dumb avatars.

nisbit

10-27-2011, 05:23 PM

Here's my experience with DF so far. I have a group of friends that group together on a regular basis. We decided to form up a group of alts to earn the added 25% xp bonus for doing a random dungeon. Our alts are all 90 but not max aa. The group make up is: Monk, mystic, assassin, brigand, dirge, and coercer. Sounds great, right? Not so much. We all have just over 120% crit mit due to the free Rygorr armor now but our jewelry is a joke. So when we queue up, the first instance it sends us to is, you got it, Spires of Rage. We wait 15 minutes, re-queue we do ZUA in under 15 minutes, wait for the timer to reset, re-queue and get sent back to Spires. What a joke. So for our time spent we earned a total of 5-10% aa. When I queue up to gain xp I want to be able to run a zone in 30-60 minutes non-stop killing so I can actually gain xp. Drunder should not be included. If Drunder must be included then additional checks need to be implemented to determine if a group has any chance at success. Such as crit chance, cast speed, got 2 healers?, not just crit mit.One other thing I'd like to add/question is why has DF been divided into categories? If I uncheck any box it appears to automatically disqualify me from earning the added 25% xp bonus. There should be an allowance of say 5 zones that you can de-select and still be eligible to gain the 25% bonus. Also while I was in ZUA I couldn't find anywhere on my UI that actually said I was earning a bonus. That needs to be fixed.

Lempo

10-27-2011, 06:10 PM

<cite>nisbit wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's my experience with DF so far. I have a group of friends that group together on a regular basis. We decided to form up a group of alts to earn the added 25% xp bonus for doing a random dungeon. Our alts are all 90 but not max aa. The group make up is: Monk, mystic, assassin, brigand, dirge, and coercer. Sounds great, right? Not so much. We all have just over 120% crit mit due to the free Rygorr armor now but our jewelry is a joke. </blockquote>This is only one of the fatal flaws that the half baked idea of giving armor to people that far outclassed what they were capable of doing, be it AA, other gear or lack of knowledge playing the class it doesn't matter all of those issues were solved by requiring the armor to be earned, reducing the shard cost to 10/5 (if player crafted) would have made the 'grind' (I use the term loosely here) to get it almost nothing and the previous things I mentioned would have been much less of a factor if not eliminated outright. Instead to placate the WoW crowd (not directed at you, unless the shoe fits) they said let's just give them good gear, and ran with it, they never acknoledged any of the comments from many, many people that said "Wait a minute, that isn't gonna solve the problem."

Daggster

10-28-2011, 03:38 AM

So, if they had done the shard grind and got the armor with shards the problem would magically vanish? I mean running ToFS and solo-shard quest repeatedly would somehow fix the jewelry? So crap is adequate for Drunder... I disagree, the problem isn't that you can get Ry'Gorr armor without shards, the problem is that CM doesn't guarantee anything about the rest of the gear and Drunder (nor KD for that matter) has no place in being included in the zones that gets selected when you queue for random.There has to be more criteria for the gear to qualify for a zone in DF. Main stat, crit chance, casting speed, whatever, something. Minimum values for CM, CC and main stat or stamina might work quite well IMO.When I finally got the last gem I needed for the last piece of Ry'Gorr on my main, I had shards to get a set for a couple of alts. Would me using those shards to ry'gorr gear my alts have gotten my alts the jewelry too?

Gladiolus

10-28-2011, 03:40 AM

So the "penalty" is waiting 15 minutes longer. Will anyone notice?

wullailhuit

10-28-2011, 04:20 AM

Lets just state the obvious...it's been designed around the EQX free servers where the majority of the population will 'generally' be equally geared.It'll never be 'fixed' as far as the live servers are concerned with the wide gap between those who raid a lot and those who don't.I wouldn't bother holding your breath waiting for a fix.

ThyMajesty

10-28-2011, 08:06 AM

alright, things that need to be done:pre-endgame:- insert contested dungeonsthey are bread and butter for lvling up...nobody LEVELS in nek castle or dvinnian throne, they go grinding in RE or ROV instead - so queuing at lower lvls is basically pointlessendgame:- still lots of declines? raise the penalty! 15 mins is nothing- implement safeties for those who dont want to exploit actuallyneed to go afk and fear getting inv, thus getting penalty? easy solution: have the DF check your status, you can flag yourself AFKif you are, you dont get any dialog, DF just skips you for that inv and selects the next one behind you in the list - you basically swap positionswhen you return later you will still be in same position in queue-list,therefore not loosing any timeyou gain nothing while flagged afk, you loose nothing while being so...noone will be disadvantaged also, you can just safely go afk and dont loose your queue-status- adjust the requirements for the zones!!one!!1last night i queued for ISK, we had 3 tanks one after another....EVERYONE had 120-140 CritChance, the mobs there have 100% crit avoid....these poor guys barely made 5-10k on them....how are they supposed to tank this zone?! i run 50-100k without any special support on my wizz....how they are supposed to hold aggro?! they all left voluntarily after realizing that this wont work...and certainly werent much encouraged to queue again after thissame with CritMit...they had about 110-120 CM iirc, we didnt have an ubor healer....but he was able to heal me (wizz!) on first namer, we took him down w tank dont seeing any land against me aggro wiseafter that, the trashroamers upon the ramp....well, they all were nearly insta-dead..it was a complete jokeSOE, you started with this dumb mechanics to illusion gear progression, now you gotta think it to the endit would also be helpful to have the required value for each zone remaining in the list,even when i can enter itthis way it not only helps understanding the whole CC and CM thing, they also can predict their performance better, estimate difficulty etc.EDIT: regarding cross-serverI'm currently against thisits not the same as battlegrounds, where is doesnt really matter with whom you group, but MOST important, everyone gets the same rewardDF is part of numerous MMOs today, but i have yet to see one that does NOT f*** up the communitythere WILL be enough ppl that dont give a f*** about reputation to toons fom other servers, chances are high they wont see them again anyways....so why keep manners? why finish the zone when you got item/pling of the first namer? "goodbye grp, i got what i wanted and dont care at all if you can finish this!"we all know there are folks out there with this attitude, and one can PROMISE, that once they start doing this (behave badly, dropping etc) others will start too sooner or later....why should they care for if nobody does?i dont want that to happen in EQ2 aswell

Valdaglerion

10-28-2011, 11:47 AM

<cite>Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>I couldn't agree anymore ... Cross-Server is a dumb idea waste of time when you can't get your own server to use it. </blockquote></blockquote>So let me understand this . . .so people are on server(s) where people arent using the Dungeon Finder and have no way of getting groups but people on other servers with different populations are using the tool and if they had access to those people they could play and yet implementation of cross server is a dumb idea / waste of time?/face palm

urgthock

10-28-2011, 12:28 PM

<cite>ThyMajesty wrote:</cite><blockquote>- adjust the requirements for the zones!!one!!1last night i queued for ISK, we had 3 tanks one after another....EVERYONE had 120-140 CritChance, the mobs there have 100% crit avoid....these poor guys barely made 5-10k on them....how are they supposed to tank this zone?! i run 50-100k without any special support on my wizz....how they are supposed to hold aggro?! they all left voluntarily after realizing that this wont work...and certainly werent much encouraged to queue again after thissame with CritMit...they had about 110-120 CM iirc, we didnt have an ubor healer....but he was able to heal me (wizz!) on first namer, we took him down w tank dont seeing any land against me aggro wiseafter that, the trashroamers upon the ramp....well, they all were nearly insta-dead..it was a complete jokeSOE, you started with this dumb mechanics to illusion gear progression, now you gotta think it to the endit would also be helpful to have the required value for each zone remaining in the list,even when i can enter itthis way it not only helps understanding the whole CC and CM thing, they also can predict their performance better, estimate difficulty etc.</blockquote>Just as a point to make, Iceshard Keep no longer requires crit mit, so that point really doesn't apply.However, your point about crit CHANCE most assuredly does. With the gear I have been able to get out of the rime instances which appear to preceed the kael instances, as well as a mixture of thurg and ry'gorr armor, I have only been able to get my crit chance up to about 170 or so I think. If, as others have said, these zones are designed and based upon critting 100% of the time, you would need 200%+ crit chance when accounting for the mobs innate crit avoidance. Since I have been actively persuing crit chance and still not been able to reach 200%, I can only imagine the crit chance of some toons the DF may throw into a Kael instance (with no innate Crit Chance requirement) might have.

Ahlana

10-28-2011, 02:39 PM

<cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ThyMajesty wrote:</cite><blockquote>- adjust the requirements for the zones!!one!!1last night i queued for ISK, we had 3 tanks one after another....EVERYONE had 120-140 CritChance, the mobs there have 100% crit avoid....these poor guys barely made 5-10k on them....how are they supposed to tank this zone?! i run 50-100k without any special support on my wizz....how they are supposed to hold aggro?! they all left voluntarily after realizing that this wont work...and certainly werent much encouraged to queue again after thissame with CritMit...they had about 110-120 CM iirc, we didnt have an ubor healer....but he was able to heal me (wizz!) on first namer, we took him down w tank dont seeing any land against me aggro wiseafter that, the trashroamers upon the ramp....well, they all were nearly insta-dead..it was a complete jokeSOE, you started with this dumb mechanics to illusion gear progression, now you gotta think it to the endit would also be helpful to have the required value for each zone remaining in the list,even when i can enter itthis way it not only helps understanding the whole CC and CM thing, they also can predict their performance better, estimate difficulty etc.</blockquote>Just as a point to make, Iceshard Keep no longer requires crit mit, so that point really doesn't apply.However, your point about crit CHANCE most assuredly does. With the gear I have been able to get out of the rime instances which appear to preceed the kael instances, as well as a mixture of thurg and ry'gorr armor, I have only been able to get my crit chance up to about 170 or so I think. If, as others have said, these zones are designed and based upon critting 100% of the time, you would need 200%+ crit chance when accounting for the mobs innate crit avoidance. Since I have been actively persuing crit chance and still not been able to reach 200%, I can only imagine the crit chance of some toons the DF may throw into a Kael instance (with no innate Crit Chance requirement) might have.</blockquote>Crit Chance doesn't matter ... only for the speed of killing. My small casual group clears ISK with only 3 people clearing the so called CC check. Our warlock only has 117% CC buffed and it still doesn't hinder anything but clearing speed /shrug

urgthock

10-28-2011, 02:49 PM

<cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ThyMajesty wrote:</cite><blockquote>- adjust the requirements for the zones!!one!!1last night i queued for ISK, we had 3 tanks one after another....EVERYONE had 120-140 CritChance, the mobs there have 100% crit avoid....these poor guys barely made 5-10k on them....how are they supposed to tank this zone?! i run 50-100k without any special support on my wizz....how they are supposed to hold aggro?! they all left voluntarily after realizing that this wont work...and certainly werent much encouraged to queue again after thissame with CritMit...they had about 110-120 CM iirc, we didnt have an ubor healer....but he was able to heal me (wizz!) on first namer, we took him down w tank dont seeing any land against me aggro wiseafter that, the trashroamers upon the ramp....well, they all were nearly insta-dead..it was a complete jokeSOE, you started with this dumb mechanics to illusion gear progression, now you gotta think it to the endit would also be helpful to have the required value for each zone remaining in the list,even when i can enter itthis way it not only helps understanding the whole CC and CM thing, they also can predict their performance better, estimate difficulty etc.</blockquote>Just as a point to make, Iceshard Keep no longer requires crit mit, so that point really doesn't apply.However, your point about crit CHANCE most assuredly does. With the gear I have been able to get out of the rime instances which appear to preceed the kael instances, as well as a mixture of thurg and ry'gorr armor, I have only been able to get my crit chance up to about 170 or so I think. If, as others have said, these zones are designed and based upon critting 100% of the time, you would need 200%+ crit chance when accounting for the mobs innate crit avoidance. Since I have been actively persuing crit chance and still not been able to reach 200%, I can only imagine the crit chance of some toons the DF may throw into a Kael instance (with no innate Crit Chance requirement) might have.</blockquote>Crit Chance doesn't matter ... only for the speed of killing. My small casual group clears ISK with only 3 people clearing the so called CC check. Our warlock only has 117% CC buffed and it still doesn't hinder anything but clearing speed /shrug</blockquote>It matters for those fights that have a DPS check (which are admittedly rare in the zones that don't require Crit Mit) and it also matters for healers. If mob damage output is balanced around expecting that the healer will be critting 100% and they aren't, that can lead to some big problems.

Ahlana

10-28-2011, 03:05 PM

<cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>-snip-</cite></blockquote>Crit Chance doesn't matter ... only for the speed of killing. My small casual group clears ISK with only 3 people clearing the so called CC check. Our warlock only has 117% CC buffed and it still doesn't hinder anything but clearing speed /shrug</blockquote>It matters for those fights that have a DPS check (which are admittedly rare in the zones that don't require Crit Mit) and it also matters for healers. If mob damage output is balanced around expecting that the healer will be critting 100% and they aren't, that can lead to some big problems.</blockquote>I suppose I could see it in those scenerios, the first one as you stated is kind of void as it seems to be mostly absent from most zones. But I can definently see the healer issue. I would have to check the healer in our group makeup to see if she caps over 200% for ISK though. She may which could be the difference in our survivability lolI will stand by that CC is still largely not needed and it is just preferred (for at least everyone but the healer :p )

ThyMajesty

10-28-2011, 03:13 PM

your warlock isnt supposed to hold aggroi didnt say its required to kill those mobs, it isnt.but tell me... if your tank, have 120% CC (=dps cut a lot, critbon worthless in 80% etc) and want to tank vs 4 DPS-classes, all critting all the time...you will handle this? i heavily doubt thatthose guys were in icy-fingers quest gear, barely having 30k HPand yeah, you got me on the CM thing, forgot they removed that in ISK....then again, they were poorly geared, the trash one shotted them every fight, you could wait for it...maybe res, didnt check everything on themim not here to debate what EXACTLY is needed to do zones, im just here to report that CURRENTLY building up a halfway decent grp is just a gamblepools, ascent, even spires it really doenst matter....but kael and above its starts getting not-so-indifferentand yeah i can duo, triple isk too, thats not the questionthe DF was build for the more casual type of player....those certainly NOT duo those instances

Jrral

10-28-2011, 06:32 PM

<cite>ThyMajesty wrote:</cite><blockquote>but tell me... if your tank, have 120% CC (=dps cut a lot, critbon worthless in 80% etc) and want to tank vs 4 DPS-classes, all critting all the time...you will handle this? i heavily doubt that</blockquote>That's not a "meets minimums" issue, that's a group balance issue. When you're building a group, you do in fact have to consider who and what you've got and make sure it meshes well. This... is a setup that doesn't mesh well. The group leader should've either declined the DPS guys in favor of ones more in line with what the tank could handle or declined the tank in favor of one better matched to the DPS. If you wont' do that... well, it'll be a train wreck.

ThyMajesty

10-28-2011, 07:05 PM

uhh, seriously?how do you want to realize this pls?the first one to be in grp gets popups of every toon's stats and then has to accept/decline participation? or have them all join and then praise away those that are geared too good?!leaving completely aside that this requires a lil more knowledge than average joe has (yes, half the peeps out there dont even know how to make someone else the GL....or just REALIZE that THEY ARE in that role at that time)also, can you even imagine how this will be exploited? dont want competition on items? piece of cake, just decline all of your archetypes!wait, do you decide that ALONE? or does the grp has to vote on this? what if the two peeps you accept finally, arent happy with your declines/accepts? start a vote to boot you out, then rinse and repeat?dunno, this sounds impractical, flawed and basically just annoying to me :-/your right, thats a matching problem, but i certainly dont want to see that handled this wayEDIT: the above crit value were true to the point, so those tanks should just have gotten thrown into a group where erverybody only has about the same (sh**y) stats, right? so that all evens out...this would mean that the healer would be mr. wonder(wo)man...rlyand finally....do you really think that bashing every mob for 15 mins is fun? cause that is what will happen if the grp performs a 30-40k dps...it takes foreverno, sry....bottom line is...ppl cant really evaluate their capabilities, specifically in context to a certain zone and the role your playing in therehaving adequate gear as a tank is much more important than...lets say for a dps class.....not really fair, but you can live with 40-60k dps less....but a tank that keels over on mobs tiniest farts is just not compensable

Jrral

10-28-2011, 09:58 PM

<cite>ThyMajesty wrote:</cite><blockquote>uhh, seriously?how do you want to realize this pls?</blockquote>Exactly. It's a point I've made to devs: the things the DF needs to do to build workable groups are things the DF can't by it's very nature do. And if it isn't doing them, then I'm better off avoiding it entirely.

Banditman

10-31-2011, 09:52 AM

Using some sort of Item / Gear score, DF could make a much better effort at matching players into more even groups, and then putting those groups into more appropriate dungeons.Of course, that assumes that you can get the population in the DF queue up to an acceptable level first, which means making it work cross server.

Daggster

10-31-2011, 10:29 AM

There's no point in responding to this thread anymore. DF is done and finished with, now all that needs to be done is for the players to enjoy this well thought out and masterfully implemented feature.

Nijia

10-31-2011, 10:45 AM

<cite>Wullailduo@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lets just state the obvious...it's been designed around the EQX free servers where the majority of the population will 'generally' be equally geared.(...)I wouldn't bother holding your breath waiting for a fix.</blockquote>I copied my Dirge to EQ2X and while the people are nice, I am afraid to tell you during the entire weekend, the Dungeon Finder was about as useless as it is on live (at level 90). I did see "Medium" in yellow colour for mages and scouts in a couple instances, some time but most of the time its all red "Low" just like on live.The most popular DoV instances in DF appear to be the Tower of Frozen Shadows. Not surprisingly those are the more accessible dungeons for new DoV players.Yep, they are knee deep into more DoV content, GU62, mercenaries and whatnot.It looks like the mercenaries will be the better option to fill groups.

Nijia

10-31-2011, 11:05 AM

The sad thing is, the Dungeon Finder is passable, and functional, IF IT INCLUDED all the playable instances.When it came out, I was doing lots of DF groups in the Sentinel Fate dungeons, because I had never been there.The main issues echoed here are all directly or indirectly a result of the difficulty of the last expansion.The Dungeon Finder can still be useful without fixing any bugs or improving the U.I. one bit:1) Look at adding every other playable instances from previous expansions (TSO, SF, EoF ...) that's not too small.2) Pull the last expansion dungeons OUT of the Random XP bonus.Then you'll see a lot more people use it to level up alts because the gear on old expansion is still decent while you're levelling, and you get the exp anyway. And level 90 like me will also join because there are still many dungeons I have not played, and will never play, through regular chat channel groups.Essentially the Dungeon Finder should be targetted at players who are levelling their main (new players) or alts.It will require far too much work to become adopted by "veteran" players who are running end game content.But it can still be reasonably successful if it allowed us to complete achievements and exploration, and level up alts getting tons of groups through all the older content.

Nijia

10-31-2011, 04:47 PM

BUGThe Dungeon Finder need to auto-stop reinforcing when the last slot is filled.Otherwise the group leader can not deactivate it.Then if someone goes LD, they may be replaced ASAP by the DF (as in Crystal Caverns) ... especially if someone *cough* takes the initiative to announce any remaining slots in level chat .. then what happens is the LD person comes back and they get re-invited by the DF as 7th group member in raid window. But they get zoned somewhere in New Halas (as I was told), and can not actually join the zone.So there was a patch that force you to stop reinforcing when you manually invite. But if you reactivate the Reinfocrce button after someone leaves, and the slot is filled, it stays in reinforce mode. And that is where the bug happens if someone goes LD.My guess would be the easiest fix is to auto stop reinforcing status when the group is full. If someone leaves, the group lead can click the Reinforce button, or choose to manually invite someone to replace a specific role that is no longer there.

Yimway

10-31-2011, 05:13 PM

Now that this has been 'un-sticked' we can assume nothing will be done to fix this and we've just moved on from having a functioning DF tool?

Nrgy

10-31-2011, 05:40 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Using some sort of Item / Gear score, DF could make a much better effort at matching players into more even groups, and then putting those groups into more appropriate dungeons.Of course, that assumes that you can get the population in the DF queue up to an acceptable level first, which means making it work cross server.</blockquote>I agree 100%, although in my opinion, if the Gear Score matching is put in place the population will lean towards it allowing it to reach an acceptable population, but that it just semantics, I feel it needs to do both. As well as, being able to specify group templates by class. This isn't WOW, where a group of Tank+Heal+any3 can be successful in 99% of the content. This is EQ2 with an expanded class list and an expanded group of 6 (rather than 5). Each EQ2 class has a specific job and some zones "require" certain utility to be preformed. 99% of the zones require a "Tank", 98% of the zones require a "Healer", 75% of the zones "require" a Chanter, 50% of the zones "require" a bard. Blindly tossing Tank+Healer+4Any at more scripted zones is POINTLESS. You can debate the meaning of "Required" if you like, but just please first evaluate the number of times you see "level_chat LFM ... Bard or Chanter and GTG .. " before you do.Bump for formerly stickied thread... which should not be allowed to fall into the abyss of page 2 without a Red comment...

Nijia

10-31-2011, 05:46 PM

<cite>Nijia@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote>The main issues echoed here are all directly or indirectly a result of the difficulty of the last expansion.The Dungeon Finder can still be useful without fixing any bugs or improving the U.I. one bit:1) Look at adding every other playable instances from previous expansions (TSO, SF, EoF ...) that's not too small.2) Pull the last expansion dungeons OUT of the Random XP bonus.(...)</blockquote>I thought I'd expand on my reasoning here:First, there is no need for a 25% exp bonus incentive for DoV dungeons. There are dailies, hot zones, and dominance quests and people create groups for those zones in level chat all the time, to grind for shards. Granted, it requires some initiative to start a group but even if you're passive it doesn't take too long to find a Velk's or Kael group (I'm not guilded so I can attest for that).... Heck there are public raids for DoV x2 and x4 content regularly!Secondly, the 25% exp bonus in my opinion doesn't match with the end game content. It is an incentive for racing through zones, and grinding experience. End game content incentive is to get the best loot in the game, and progress through the expansion. Not to mention you're supposed to be level 86+ already for DoV, and getting to 300 AA is easy regardless of which expansion you run.Hence, to remove some friction and frustration I would suggest to remove DoV dungeons from the random dungeon list.At the same time, many more dungeons from last expansion need to be added to the list, for instance all the scaleable instances, and TSO missions.Otherwise calling this a Dungeon Finder is about as logical as having the yellow pages list only 10% of the businesses in town...

Nrgy

10-31-2011, 06:25 PM

<cite>Nijia@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nijia@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote>The main issues echoed here are all directly or indirectly a result of the difficulty of the last expansion.The Dungeon Finder can still be useful without fixing any bugs or improving the U.I. one bit:1) Look at adding every other playable instances from previous expansions (TSO, SF, EoF ...) that's not too small.2) Pull the last expansion dungeons OUT of the Random XP bonus.(...)</blockquote>I thought I'd expand on my reasoning here:First, there is no need for a 25% exp bonus incentive for DoV dungeons. There are dailies, hot zones, and dominance quests and people create groups for those zones in level chat all the time, to grind for shards. Granted, it requires some initiative to start a group but even if you're passive it doesn't take too long to find a Velk's or Kael group (I'm not guilded so I can attest for that).... Heck there are public raids for DoV x2 and x4 content regularly!Secondly, the 25% exp bonus in my opinion doesn't match with the end game content. It is an incentive for racing through zones, and grinding experience. End game content incentive is to get the best loot in the game, and progress through the expansion. Not to mention you're supposed to be level 86+ already for DoV, and getting to 300 AA is easy regardless of which expansion you run.Hence, to remove some friction and frustration I would suggest to remove DoV dungeons from the random dungeon list.At the same time, many more dungeons from last expansion need to be added to the list, for instance all the scaleable instances, and TSO missions.Otherwise calling this a Dungeon Finder is about as logical as having the yellow pages list only 10% of the businesses in town... </blockquote>I think your hearts in the right place, but seriously, I do not think SOE & SJ ever intented to spend an unknown amount of time, resources or budgeted money to build an in-game tool for such a small population of the game. And before you even think about starting a "There are tons of people that aren't level capped or even own DOV", just stop. The player base is in current release content, and even though it might "sound" like I don't care about the 1-86 game, the fact is that people that "Want" to either level slow or lock for progression do it for their own purposes.The Dungeon Finder needs to work for current release content and needs to be used by the current release base. Adding every instance to it would be nice and should have been faily easy since they really just need to make a group template table entry. The issues are the same today as they were at launch and the 25% bonus is nothing more that a Pay-Off, basically paying people to use it.Add Gear Score Balancing, Cross-Server and Customizable Group Templates to give people the chance to make it successful ... or Don't and it Won't.

Nijia

11-01-2011, 12:12 AM

When the DF came out I used it and I bumped into people I never saw before. Server is a small world and when you PUG you recognize a lot of names. Those were people I never grouped with before. It came out about the time my Dirge was level 80 so I did quite a few SF zones in the Dungeon Finder. This was a sweet spot as level 90's would be able to join and we were steamrolling the instances.There are tons of casuals in there and people play a lot of alts. The Dungeon Finder is definitely prime alt-aholic, and levelling material for sub level 90, imho.I agree it would be best that it works great at assembling well balanced groups for DoV content. However there is not such a need for level 90 because there are already tons of level chat activity for DoV dungeons. Except for completely off times (ie. night time/early morning US time).The Dungeon Finder needs to work for current release content and needs to be used by the current release baseI only suggested to remove DoV zones from the random exp bonus, because it's in DoV that the sub optimal group setups are the most frustrating.Consider that a level 90 dungeon is only available to level 90 characters. Whereas the level 80 dungeons in the Dungeon Finder typically stretch to 90 (80-90 for most SF zones if I remember well).This means that at level 80, you can get some well geared level 90's. I remember for example finishing Vasty Deeps: Conservatory without a healer... I had some wonky group setups when I was using the DF at level 80 and it was still fun, because the SF dungeons weren't too hard.A level 90 dungeon means the entry bar is level 90. So there is much less margin for error, in the form of lacking DPS, gear checks, required classes etc.All I'm saying essentially is, if you're checking that 25% exp bonus, you clearly aren't geared up for end game. You either need more AA or you need to level to 90. Hence, such players would be better queuing for Sentinel's Fate, which level 80-90 heroic instances btw can give pretty decent gear for starting DoV (ie. 16% crit charms).In theory, you can still level some in DoV ToFS, Pools... but in practice there is really little you can do in DoV without being "carried" by the group until you have your 200+ AA, and PQ gear minimum.In summary...I know what dungeons in DoV I want to run, and which ones I can do with my current gear. I don't want to be mixed with players who are grinding for experience and/or AA. They should be nearly maxed out already! Hence... they should probably be queued for random past expansion dungeons that also reach the level 90 cap, but can be run by DoV geared people so they are generally more enjoyable and easier for "random" groups..

Halo of G4

11-01-2011, 07:35 AM

I would like to see some TSO dungeons such as PoF, OSoY, and some of the other TOS zones that require two or more players (due to names requiring it or opening a path) on the level 90 DF.

urgthock

11-01-2011, 10:31 AM

I've got the best fix for the DF. Instead of giving a 25% exp bonus for queing for a random zone, give it a bonus 25% chance of the named mobs dropping their "rare" loot (2% chance becomes 27% chance). Then watch DF take off like a rocket.

Nrgy

11-01-2011, 10:57 AM

<cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've got the best fix for the DF. Instead of giving a 25% exp bonus for queing for a random zone, give it a bonus 25% chance of the named mobs dropping their "rare" loot (2% chance becomes 27% chance). Then watch DF take off like a rocket.</blockquote>I have a better Idea ... instead of giving a 25% XP bonus, make is a 25% XP penalty. That way those that are 90/300 won't be stuck with 86/120's causing an insta fail group and a lockout for 6 people.Or rather than rare mobs dropping muteable or SLR loot make them drop a crate with a 20 shard pack as one of the choices.>>edit for the bump of a formerly 'stickie' thread without resolution.

Nrgy

11-01-2011, 05:20 PM

>> bump (editing doesn't refresh the threads position, I noob'ed it)

Banditman

11-02-2011, 09:50 AM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now that this has been 'un-sticked' we can assume nothing will be done to fix this and we've just moved on from having a functioning DF tool?</blockquote>Correct.

Raknid

11-02-2011, 10:02 AM

Hey man, ease up on them. They have Heroes Festival bugs to work through.And you know....those red adornments, and slots, that disappeared off wands as a side of effect of the change listed in the patch notes...oh... and the adornments didn't show up in peoples inventory either. Too bad that was only on test for what, 24 hours at the most.And you know...the 48 hour loot distribution window disapperaring.Etc...I just wish they would quit making more work for themselves by not QAing properly, put aside all the other stuff that is less important (nice, yes, as important as getting the DF fixed, no), and put their nose to the grindstone...all hands on deck...whatever...and get the DF fixed.They will never have the time to get back to the DF fixes if all they are doing is running around putting out fires and moving on to the next "big" thing.

Darkennz

11-02-2011, 11:10 AM

PLEASE Please please implement cross-server for the Dungeon Finder. The populations on each individual server does not accomodate enough people to make the Dungeon Finder even remotely useful. Long waits and lack of specific classes are always an issue. This should have been implemented as of DF launch imo, I'm sure it would have been a much bigger hit than the current lacking system we unfortunately have to deal with..

Juravael

11-02-2011, 01:41 PM

<cite>Darksouls@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>PLEASE Please please implement cross-server for the Dungeon Finder. The populations on each individual server does not accomodate enough people to make the Dungeon Finder even remotely useful. Long waits and lack of specific classes are always an issue. This should have been implemented as of DF launch imo, I'm sure it would have been a much bigger hit than the current lacking system we unfortunately have to deal with..</blockquote>I agree. Opening the DF up to cross server is about all that they can do that would make the DF worth using again.

Avirodar

11-02-2011, 02:10 PM

<cite>Glenedhel@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darksouls@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>PLEASE Please please implement cross-server for the Dungeon Finder. The populations on each individual server does not accomodate enough people to make the Dungeon Finder even remotely useful. Long waits and lack of specific classes are always an issue. This should have been implemented as of DF launch imo, I'm sure it would have been a much bigger hit than the current lacking system we unfortunately have to deal with..</blockquote>I agree. Opening the DF up to cross server is about all that they can do that would make the DF worth using again.</blockquote>After what SOE done with their latest patch, are you truly brave enough to ask SOE to do anything that resembles partially complicated?

ThyMajesty

11-02-2011, 02:49 PM

as I said, DF would be more useful if it would been integrated from base up, currently its not because there arent really good instances from the beginning, the contested dungeons is it, where ppl grp forthis way its clear ppl are suspiciousthat and the fact that the requirements are not in line imho, doesnt drive ppl to use thistbh, cant wait to see DF go cross-server...its fun having your items disappear, get your toons stuck etcpp...if you think this will work better than BG-zonings then your a hopeless romanticat least that will prevent ppl from using it, keeping the community halfway intact

Darkennz

11-02-2011, 06:53 PM

<cite>Avirodar@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Glenedhel@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darksouls@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>PLEASE Please please implement cross-server for the Dungeon Finder. The populations on each individual server does not accomodate enough people to make the Dungeon Finder even remotely useful. Long waits and lack of specific classes are always an issue. This should have been implemented as of DF launch imo, I'm sure it would have been a much bigger hit than the current lacking system we unfortunately have to deal with..</blockquote>I agree. Opening the DF up to cross server is about all that they can do that would make the DF worth using again.</blockquote>After what SOE done with their latest patch, are you truly brave enough to ask SOE to do anything that resembles partially complicated?</blockquote>Lulz I take it back then!! hahaha