Sad state of EQ2 [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

shadowdragon665

09-27-2011, 08:37 AM

As a long time EQ2 player (from the early days) I recently decided to come back after a long hiatus from the game. (The 45 free day offer got me to come back)Sadly, what I found was a mere shell of what was formerly a great MMO experience.So, I pondered ....When did EQ2 become so "dumbed down"? When did it become a "soloable" MMO? And, Im sorry to even make this reference, but, when did EQ2 become a World of Warcraft clone?The gameplay, ugh, where to start. Boring, simple, and watered down. Things that used to take a well put together group yet offered great rewards, are now soloable? Seriously?Crafting has been rendered useless. Im not going to bother with details here, but ask any crafter, Im sure they'll agree.The genernal chat, auction, and lower level channels are like a pre-school ritalin party gone awry. Where did all the nerd ragers come from?I understand SOEs desire to appeal to the masses. After all, its a business, and profit is the bottom line. But, I am saddened by their decisions reguarding this once great MMO.At any rate, to each his own. If you enjoy the game as it currently is, have at it, and enjoy. For me, its just not fun.Like I said, I came back for the 45 days free to see what was new, and sadly, I wont be resubbing. Sorry SOE, you wont be getting my gaming dollars.

Tyrus Dracofire

09-27-2011, 08:49 AM

soloable? heh, not a chance.you still need group for Vig: The rescue, cella, CCC, pools, and many other zones in SF, DoV, Drundar, and some in Moors.would be nice if they scaled for solo, if you go solo and you get longer "lock-outs" timer.

Rick777

09-27-2011, 09:03 AM

<cite>shadowdragon665 wrote:</cite><blockquote>As a long time EQ2 player (from the early days) I recently decided to come back after a long hiatus from the game. (The 45 free day offer got me to come back)Sadly, what I found was a mere shell of what was formerly a great MMO experience.So, I pondered ....When did EQ2 become so "dumbed down"? When did it become a "soloable" MMO? And, Im sorry to even make this reference, but, when did EQ2 become a World of Warcraft clone?The gameplay, ugh, where to start. Boring, simple, and watered down. Things that used to take a well put together group yet offered great rewards, are now soloable? Seriously?Crafting has been rendered useless. Im not going to bother with details here, but ask any crafter, Im sure they'll agree.The genernal chat, auction, and lower level channels are like a pre-school ritalin party gone awry. Where did all the nerd ragers come from?I understand SOEs desire to appeal to the masses. After all, its a business, and profit is the bottom line. But, I am saddened by their decisions reguarding this once great MMO.At any rate, to each his own. If you enjoy the game as it currently is, have at it, and enjoy. For me, its just not fun.Like I said, I came back for the 45 days free to see what was new, and sadly, I wont be resubbing. Sorry SOE, you wont be getting my gaming dollars.</blockquote>SOE realized there was much more money in soliciting the soloers/house decorators of the world, but danged if I know how even SOE messed that up as the worlds feel pretty empty these days. The hard stuff is still there, it's just that SOE's lack of foresight led to a chasm between the easy and hard mode of the game and it's a bit rough for players to make that leap, so you see less and less players on the hard side of it. You can add some very bad decisions from SOE management in the core gameplay, itemization, and a financially based adding of "features" which end up bugged and shelved.Did SOE ever discuss the possibility of a more hardcore server? I have a feeling it would be quite popular.

Katz

09-27-2011, 09:07 AM

<cite>shadowdragon665 wrote:</cite><blockquote>As a long time EQ2 player (from the early days) I recently decided to come back after a long hiatus from the game. (The 45 free day offer got me to come back)Sadly, what I found was a mere shell of what was formerly a great MMO experience.So, I pondered ....When did EQ2 become so "dumbed down"? When did it become a "soloable" MMO? And, Im sorry to even make this reference, but, when did EQ2 become a World of Warcraft clone?The gameplay, ugh, where to start. Boring, simple, and watered down. Things that used to take a well put together group yet offered great rewards, are now soloable? Seriously?Crafting has been rendered useless. Im not going to bother with details here, but ask any crafter, Im sure they'll agree.The genernal chat, auction, and lower level channels are like a pre-school ritalin party gone awry. Where did all the nerd ragers come from?I understand SOEs desire to appeal to the masses. After all, its a business, and profit is the bottom line. But, I am saddened by their decisions reguarding this once great MMO.At any rate, to each his own. If you enjoy the game as it currently is, have at it, and enjoy. For me, its just not fun.Like I said, I came back for the 45 days free to see what was new, and sadly, I wont be resubbing. Sorry SOE, you wont be getting my gaming dollars.</blockquote>The sentences in red pretty much describe every mmo I've played. Can you name one that isn't this way?

Gladiolus

09-27-2011, 09:11 AM

<cite>Katz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Can you name one that isn't this way?</blockquote>The point is that EQ2 used to be so much better than the rest. Then at some stage they decided that they didn't want to be better, they wanted to be more profitable, and it's been downhill ever since.

Valena

09-27-2011, 09:27 AM

<cite>Gladiolus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Katz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Can you name one that isn't this way?</blockquote>The point is that EQ2 used to be so much better than the rest. Then at some stage they decided that they didn't want to be better, they wanted to be more profitable, and it's been downhill ever since.</blockquote>What else can you expect in the post-WOW days? Stockholders see WOW sub figures and want them in their games; those games get dumbed down to appeal to the masses; the original players are not happy and there isn't a big enough reason to attract the WOW crowd; everbody loses.It needs a smaller indie company to dare and be different, but unfortunately those seem to fail. Recently STO, CO and Fallen Earth have all been sold off to bigger F2P publishers.The entire industry is in flux where F2P is seem as the big money spinner as nobody else can reach WOW sub figures. Hopefully it'll settle down soon and we'll still have a game that we actually want to play.

Dasein

09-27-2011, 09:47 AM

All the current-tier group content requires a group. Depending on the zone and gear quality, this can range from any 6 players with a tank and healer to a perfectly fine-tued group with high-end gear for a zone like EoW. Yes, some stuff has been made solo-able, and changes to gear, AAs and overall character power have removed the need for a group for some older content, but that is more the result of the game evolving over 6 years than anything being dumbed down.

Flobdeth

09-27-2011, 10:03 AM

<cite>Tyrus@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>soloable? heh, not a chance.you still need group for Vig: The rescue, cella, CCC, pools, and many other zones in SF, DoV, Drundar, and some in Moors.would be nice if they scaled for solo, if you go solo and you get longer "lock-outs" timer.</blockquote>all solo, duo instances now including ISK with the exception of Dunder@Whiplash, I was really dissapointed when Fallen earth went F2P, it was quite fun

IvyBlackrose

09-27-2011, 10:53 AM

so much better than the rest according to who? the small niche gaming community of gamers who are over 40 who actually like difficult? im sorry to say but those individuals are a HUGE minority in the gaming world AND a dying breed, the gamer of today wants everything handed to them on a silver platter the sooner you realize this the sooner youll be able to enjoy gaming more

Perrigrin

09-27-2011, 11:24 AM

<cite>IvyBlackrose wrote:</cite><blockquote>so much better than the rest according to who? the small niche gaming community of gamers who are over 40 who actually like difficult? im sorry to say but those individuals are a HUGE minority in the gaming world AND a dying breed, the gamer of today wants everything handed to them on a silver platter the sooner you realize this the sooner youll be able to enjoy gaming more</blockquote>And therein lies the heart of the problem. Too many people expect to get everything good with a minimal amount of work. This is why you see so many people getting powerleveled. This is why you see content getting dumbed down and made easier for the masses that don't want to work for what they get. Think of all the overland zones that used to be chock full of heroic content as you were leveling up, and required at least pairing with someone to get it done. It's all soloable now because all the whiners complained how it was too difficult to solo. This is why most access quests were removed, because people complained about having to do them on their 7th alt.I'm proud to say I'm an "old school" type of gamer. My alts do not get power leveled (except maybe for some AA love during double exp weekends.) I'm proud to be able to say I can play my alts as well as I play my main, because if you can't say that then seriously why bother playing them. The last thing I want in a group is for anyone to make excuses for any lack of performance "because she's an alt". I say bring back the heroic content. Bring back the access quests and make people work for their rewards instead of getting everything handed to them. Make the game challenging again.

Tyrus Dracofire

09-27-2011, 11:51 AM

i didnt have choice, been looking for groups for very long time, forcing into solo was the "other' options because other get tired of same old zones or dont want because of dumb combat scripts they dont like.waiting for AoD for dungeon finders or mercenaries? man i did like to finish old quests with friends, but most of them quit playing eq2 long time ago.

Vieray

09-27-2011, 11:57 AM

<cite>Flobdeth wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tyrus@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>soloable? heh, not a chance.you still need group for Vig: The rescue, cella, CCC, pools, and many other zones in SF, DoV, Drundar, and some in Moors.would be nice if they scaled for solo, if you go solo and you get longer "lock-outs" timer.</blockquote>all solo, duo instances now including ISK with the exception of Dunder@Whiplash, I was really dissapointed when Fallen earth went F2P, it was quite fun</blockquote>I don't think that any of the current group content is even duoable by people who running the zones for better gear...are you saying this is not the case? Can you post a video of people in solo obtainable armor clearing pools or ascent as a duo? I'm in pq gear which is a good step up from the othmir or frostwind solo quest sets and it isn't good enough to solo them. Being able to solo content that is outdated isn't bad for a game that is very top heavy because it is old. Forcing people to need a group to make progress from 1-80 in a game with 90 levels is terrible for a game where the majority of the player base are veterans already at or close to max level.

Nijia

09-27-2011, 12:18 PM

<cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Did SOE ever discuss the possibility of a more hardcore server? I have a feeling it would be quite popular.</blockquote>Now here's an idea! A much better idea that a "progression" server, imho.That would not loose interest after a couple months, and it would contain all features from the "normal" servers, whereas a "progression" server is just for nostalgia's sake and trying to revisit a past that is gone.

Dasein

09-27-2011, 12:27 PM

<cite>Perrigrin@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>IvyBlackrose wrote:</cite><blockquote>so much better than the rest according to who? the small niche gaming community of gamers who are over 40 who actually like difficult? im sorry to say but those individuals are a HUGE minority in the gaming world AND a dying breed, the gamer of today wants everything handed to them on a silver platter the sooner you realize this the sooner youll be able to enjoy gaming more</blockquote>And therein lies the heart of the problem. Too many people expect to get everything good with a minimal amount of work. This is why you see so many people getting powerleveled. This is why you see content getting dumbed down and made easier for the masses that don't want to work for what they get. Think of all the overland zones that used to be chock full of heroic content as you were leveling up, and required at least pairing with someone to get it done. It's all soloable now because all the whiners complained how it was too difficult to solo. This is why most access quests were removed, because people complained about having to do them on their 7th alt.I'm proud to say I'm an "old school" type of gamer. My alts do not get power leveled (except maybe for some AA love during double exp weekends.) I'm proud to be able to say I can play my alts as well as I play my main, because if you can't say that then seriously why bother playing them. The last thing I want in a group is for anyone to make excuses for any lack of performance "because she's an alt". I say bring back the heroic content. Bring back the access quests and make people work for their rewards instead of getting everything handed to them. Make the game challenging again.</blockquote>I take it you've never been to Drunder, or HM ToRZ or EoW? There's plenty of challenge in the game. However, the developers have moved to a more strict seperation of solo and heroic content - overland zones are for soloing, questing and levelling up, while dungeons are for heoric content.Access quests were a useless roadblock that made grouping difficult and deterred people from playing alts. Removing them helped make the game playable.

Vieray

09-27-2011, 12:59 PM

<cite>Perrigrin@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>IvyBlackrose wrote:</cite><blockquote>so much better than the rest according to who? the small niche gaming community of gamers who are over 40 who actually like difficult? im sorry to say but those individuals are a HUGE minority in the gaming world AND a dying breed, the gamer of today wants everything handed to them on a silver platter the sooner you realize this the sooner youll be able to enjoy gaming more</blockquote>And therein lies the heart of the problem. Too many people expect to get everything good with a minimal amount of work. This is why you see so many people getting powerleveled. This is why you see content getting dumbed down and made easier for the masses that don't want to work for what they get. Think of all the overland zones that used to be chock full of heroic content as you were leveling up, and required at least pairing with someone to get it done. It's all soloable now because all the whiners complained how it was too difficult to solo. This is why most access quests were removed, because people complained about having to do them on their 7th alt.I'm proud to say I'm an "old school" type of gamer. My alts do not get power leveled (except maybe for some AA love during double exp weekends.) I'm proud to be able to say I can play my alts as well as I play my main, because if you can't say that then seriously why bother playing them. The last thing I want in a group is for anyone to make excuses for any lack of performance "because she's an alt". I say bring back the heroic content. Bring back the access quests and make people work for their rewards instead of getting everything handed to them. Make the game challenging again.</blockquote>Yes playing a video game should be like having a second job <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /> ... games are games not work (and for those that really want to "work" on their character there is already an avenue for this called raiding, not that it doesn't have issues as well). No amount of heroic content is going to make the population from 1-80 large enough to support regular grouping. No amount of heroic content is going to keep people from power leveling alts (leveling over and over is boring plain and simple and you can learn to play your class without being forced to group from 1 to 90). The "fixes" you'd like to see, this return to "old skool" gaming would just make sure most new or returning to the game will quit before they play a month. The best stuff in the game is still only accessible through hard work and dedication but a large percentage of the game is now accessible to people to play the game as a game and not work. This is a good thing. Some people play games as games, they want to have fun and progress a character, some people play games as work, they toil and toil to make sure they are at the top of their game, one of these people is not superior to the other, either play style is valid and it all comes down to peronal choices. Eq2 currently supports both types and this is good for the games overall profit.

SisterTheresa

09-27-2011, 01:26 PM

<cite>shadowdragon665 wrote:</cite><blockquote>As a long time EQ2 player (from the early days) I recently decided to come back after a long hiatus from the game. (The 45 free day offer got me to come back)Sadly, what I found was a mere shell of what was formerly a great MMO experience.So, I pondered ....When did EQ2 become so "dumbed down"? When did it become a "soloable" MMO? And, Im sorry to even make this reference, but, when did EQ2 become a World of Warcraft clone?~HAH World of Warcraft took from EQ2 some things. But I would say it started becoming soloable when they put the Golden Path in and probably earlier. From what I hear they removed content from the lower areas like ANT and CL.The gameplay, ugh, where to start. Boring, simple, and watered down. Things that used to take a well put together group yet offered great rewards, are now soloable? Seriously?~Not everything is soloable. Even some mid areas are difficult. Of course that doesn't count for people who twink out their gear. Maybe it is class related?Crafting has been rendered useless. Im not going to bother with details here, but ask any crafter, Im sure they'll agree.~*blink* I have NOT heard any of that. You must play on a whining server or something. Getting your Shawl is a chore, not to mention Qho's quests and your Crafting Epic. They changed the exp for leveling crafting to focus more on writs, that is for sure, but to balance out the professions since some leveled faster because of more recipies per level.The genernal chat, auction, and lower level channels are like a pre-school ritalin party gone awry. Where did all the nerd ragers come from?~Turn them off? FIXED!I understand SOEs desire to appeal to the masses. After all, its a business, and profit is the bottom line. But, I am saddened by their decisions reguarding this once great MMO.At any rate, to each his own. If you enjoy the game as it currently is, have at it, and enjoy. For me, its just not fun.Like I said, I came back for the 45 days free to see what was new, and sadly, I wont be resubbing. Sorry SOE, you wont be getting my gaming dollars.~Guess we won't be getting your stuff?</blockquote>

Deveryn

09-27-2011, 01:47 PM

I disagree with this whole idea of things being dumbed down. It annoys me how people like to throw that phrase around. It tends to feel a bit insulting, as I'm generally in favor of one little change or another. Most of the time, it's just a time saver that was implemented. Those kinds of things are necessary, when you raise the level cap on a game. Everyone's chomping at the bit to get to max level to raid or whatever. The process needs to be sped up a little. There are still difficult tasks in the game. You can't just walk up to every named and expect a simple DPS fight. Some older content might be soloable now, but that's bound to happen, when caps are being raised. There are still some areas that have survived the level cap raises. Veeshan's Peak is still far from soloable or partially grouped, for the most part.I've played a number of other MMOs out there, free or otherwise. The free ones are generally just a grindfest, with no real complexity of any kind. Any boss fight is the same old deal. The chat channels are the same mindless drivel. EQ2 at least provides some variety, where activities are concerned.I would also disagree with the idea that so many want things handed to them on a silver platter. I know that there are those people out there, but most simply lack the luxury of time. If some meaningful progress can be made in a limited amount of time, then that's a good thing. I had my fill of the 'hardcore' life, especially back in EQ. Eventually, it becomes a drag, when it takes 10 mins to an hour just to prep. Then you spend 5-10 hours for a small amount of exp. I use quotes for hardcore because it's not so much that things used to be difficult, it's that they were more tedious. I'd like to know what this alleged harcore server is supposed to be like. I can't imagine it's going to be any more challenging than the content that's in the game right now. By challenging, I mean requiring some skill and attention, not patience for the long walk across the zone.Hi, I'm any crafter. Is crafting useless? Not completely. Some classes have less trouble with running out of things to make than others. Part of the problem is a lot of people want to make things themselves. They want their mage to make spells and all this other stuff, when there are plenty of people out there to make what people need. So, the feeling of uselessness is primarily driven by the players themselves. There is definitely room for improvement in the crafting system.I challenge anyone to find a game that's miles ahead of this one in every way. Everything out there is so washed up and is the same old boring nonsense. People just keep getting suckered in with all these gimmicks. You're better off keeping your money here with the company that's been doing this for years.

BriarHaven

09-27-2011, 02:01 PM

I like that this game supports different styles of game play (solo, duo, group, raid, crafters etc. ). There are different stokes for different folks.Also, for the number of features available, this is still the best game on the market. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />

scruffylookin

09-27-2011, 02:04 PM

<cite>shadowdragon665 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Like I said, I came back for the 45 days free to see what was new, and sadly, I wont be resubbing. Sorry SOE, you wont be getting my gaming dollars.</blockquote>If it was a great MMO before, why did it take a free 45 days to get you to come back and even consider resubbing. Obviously, it wasn't great enough to keep you as a customer before.

Valena

09-27-2011, 02:05 PM

<cite>Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>I challenge anyone to find a game that's miles ahead of this one in every way. Everything out there is so washed up and is the same old boring nonsense. People just keep getting suckered in with all these gimmicks. You're better off keeping your money here with the company that's been doing this for years.</blockquote>And there is the problem. The reason why we moan but stay. There isn't a better game out there atm, and I have looked but none have held my interest.I do enjoy EQ2 or else I wouldn't play, but a lot of that enjoyment comes from the friends and guildmates that I have made here. I don't think that I enjoy actually playing as much as I used to but I still enjoy the chat at least <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />

LardLord

09-27-2011, 02:06 PM

I agree that "dumbed down" is a poor term, especially since the game has become more complex/tactical in some areas. With that said, they changed the direction of the game towards solo'ing with the Rise of Kunark expansion. The producer at the time apparently had an epiphany that "other people" in MMOs were a bad thing, so he made everything (well, not everything) solo'able, and then he promptly quit and eventually ended up working on RIFT.

scruffylookin

09-27-2011, 02:20 PM

<cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree that "dumbed down" is a poor term, especially since the game has become more complex/tactical in some areas. With that said, they changed the direction of the game towards solo'ing with the Rise of Kunark expansion. The producer at the time apparently had an epiphany that "other people" in MMOs were a bad thing, so he made everything (well, not everything) solo'able, and then he promptly quit and eventually ended up working on RIFT.</blockquote>I disagree with the assertion that the game became a solo game. From the day it launched, it has been pretty evenly split between solo and group content, and I think it has maintained that throughout its life. On the month of launch, I solo'd/duo'd with my wife up to level 20. We grouped occasionally, just for kicks, but the vast majority of our game was solo. That never changed during our entire history of playing this game. We duo'd then, we duo now. And then and now, there was a ton of content we couldn't do (which is fine) because it's group content. in the first month of launch, this game was soloable all the way up to level 40 (EF and LS were group zones then). That means you could get through 4/5 of the entire game solo. I know, because that's exactly what we did. When DoF came out, it kept that exact model. Solo overland zones, group dungeons. KoS, same model, with the DoF content easier at that point. EoF, same model. When it launched, nobody was doing Kaladim solo. Or unrest. Or catacombs. or Mistmore. RoK had a lot of solo content, because the overland zones were huge. But it's undeniable that TSO was a group expansion. My wife and I got to experience about 10% of that expansion. SF, good mix. I mean, the hole is a completely devoted to groups, but two major overland zones.And upon launching Velius clearly had a group leaning. I've been on this game since launch, and since day one, I've never had a problem finding group content or finding solo content. Every time any expansion or update is launched that has even the tiniest leaning toward one or the other, you get people claiming it's changed, but it hasn't.

LardLord

09-27-2011, 02:27 PM

<cite>scruffylookin wrote:</cite><blockquote>I disagree with the assertion that the game became a solo game. From the day it launched, it has been pretty evenly split between solo and group content, and I think it has maintained that throughout its life. On the month of launch, I solo'd/duo'd with my wife up to level 20. We grouped occasionally, just for kicks, but the vast majority of our game was solo. That never changed during our entire history of playing this game. We duo'd then, we duo now. And then and now, there was a ton of content we couldn't do (which is fine) because it's group content. in the first month of launch, this game was soloable all the way up to level 40 (EF and LS were group zones then). That means you could get through 4/5 of the entire game solo. I know, because that's exactly what we did. When DoF came out, it kept that exact model. Solo overland zones, group dungeons. KoS, same model, with the DoF content easier at that point. EoF, same model. When it launched, nobody was doing Kaladim solo. Or unrest. Or catacombs. or Mistmore. RoK had a lot of solo content, becase the overland zones were huge. But it's undeniable that TSO was a group expansion. My wife and I got to experience about 10% of that expansion. SF, good mix. I mean, the hole is a completely devoted to groups, but two major overland zones.And upon launching Velius clearly had a group leaning. I've been on this game since launch, and since day one, I've never had a problem finding group content or finding solo content. Every time any expansion or update is launched that has even the tiniest leaning toward one or the other, you get people claiming it's changed, but it hasn't.</blockquote>You have a really interesting perception of solo vs. group. The overland zones were filled with heroic content at launch. Maybe if you had some really overpowered class combo you could duo them? But I died many times in Nek and Steppes to heroic mobs. Certainly, there has always been some solo content, but I think it's completely ridiculous to try to say that the game hasn't shifted towards solo'ing since launch.EDIT: In 2004, one of my friends quit the game (for a couple years) because he felt he could do nothing at all without a group. Granted, there were some things he could do, but as a solo Assassin in the 20s, he felt like he needed to go LFG. In 2011, he was genuinely disappointed to see so many mobs that used to be heroic now solo. Maybe you could just always duo the overland heroic content or something so you didn't notice it much, but that's the 180 degree shift I've seen in the game since launch.

Elvenmagic

09-27-2011, 02:57 PM

The realism that used to make this a great fantasy roleplaying game has been exchanged for convenience and fun and cheap ways for SOE to make another buck. A couple of quick examples off the top of my head: globe travel, blazing fast mounts, dinosaur mounts, portals in Qeynos and Freeport to enter housing (I guess they couldn't be bothered with actually making the entrance be someplace real so they just keep lining up more and more portals), Station Marketplace (notice how so much cool looking stuff started miraculously appearing when the marketplace came out?), etc. Honestly, I can't really blame a big company like that in these economic times. I know it's hard to stay in business. But it's really a shame to see such a great game go the way that this game has gone. It definately isn't the same Everquest that captured the imagination of so many fantasy RPG enthusiasts a decade ago. The player base has definately shifted as a result too.

Rick777

09-27-2011, 03:36 PM

<cite>Whiplash@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>I challenge anyone to find a game that's miles ahead of this one in every way. Everything out there is so washed up and is the same old boring nonsense. People just keep getting suckered in with all these gimmicks. You're better off keeping your money here with the company that's been doing this for years.</blockquote>And there is the problem. The reason why we moan but stay. There isn't a better game out there atm, and I have looked but none have held my interest.I do enjoy EQ2 or else I wouldn't play, but a lot of that enjoyment comes from the friends and guildmates that I have made here. I don't think that I enjoy actually playing as much as I used to but I still enjoy the chat at least <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Can't disagree there at all. EQ2 IS dumbed down, but there are no other MMO's (possibly EVE online is the only one that comes to mind) that is not dumbed down. Rift is a complete piece of dumbed down junk, SWOTOR is slated to be a wow clone with lightsabers, wow is well wow, etc. I'd say half the reason I stay with eq2 is because it is the same as other MMO's but at least it's familiar, all my friends are here and I have a lot of emotion invested in my characters.For me a dream MMO is one which doesn't use "aggro circles" for example, oh look a group of mobs, they won't notice me if I stay out of their aggro circle, lets just thread our way around all these groups as if they were not there. I'd like some reality, I'm approaching the dungeon, a scout spots me and runs back to sound the alarm and mayhem ensues, stuff like that is what I dream future MMO's will bring. I fear the whole aggro circle, grind gear, push buttons is the only thing we have nowadays until someone thinks outside the box.

Brigh

09-27-2011, 04:08 PM

<cite>Flobdeth wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tyrus@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>soloable? heh, not a chance.you still need group for Vig: The rescue, cella, CCC, pools, and many other zones in SF, DoV, Drundar, and some in Moors.would be nice if they scaled for solo, if you go solo and you get longer "lock-outs" timer.</blockquote>all solo, duo instances now including ISK with the exception of Dunder</blockquote>Icelandic króna?Interstellar Kredits?

LL_Tailor

09-27-2011, 05:23 PM

Haven't gotten to DOV yet, but I believe it's referring to:Ice Shard Keep.

Tallithia

09-27-2011, 05:23 PM

<cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shadowdragon665 wrote:</cite><blockquote>As a long time EQ2 player (from the early days) I recently decided to come back after a long hiatus from the game. (The 45 free day offer got me to come back)Sadly, what I found was a mere shell of what was formerly a great MMO experience.So, I pondered ....When did EQ2 become so "dumbed down"? When did it become a "soloable" MMO? And, Im sorry to even make this reference, but, when did EQ2 become a World of Warcraft clone?The gameplay, ugh, where to start. Boring, simple, and watered down. Things that used to take a well put together group yet offered great rewards, are now soloable? Seriously?Crafting has been rendered useless. Im not going to bother with details here, but ask any crafter, Im sure they'll agree.The genernal chat, auction, and lower level channels are like a pre-school ritalin party gone awry. Where did all the nerd ragers come from?I understand SOEs desire to appeal to the masses. After all, its a business, and profit is the bottom line. But, I am saddened by their decisions reguarding this once great MMO.At any rate, to each his own. If you enjoy the game as it currently is, have at it, and enjoy. For me, its just not fun.Like I said, I came back for the 45 days free to see what was new, and sadly, I wont be resubbing. Sorry SOE, you wont be getting my gaming dollars.</blockquote>SOE realized there was much more money in soliciting the soloers/house decorators of the world, but danged if I know how even SOE messed that up as the worlds feel pretty empty these days. The hard stuff is still there, it's just that SOE's lack of foresight led to a chasm between the easy and hard mode of the game and it's a bit rough for players to make that leap, so you see less and less players on the hard side of it. You can add some very bad decisions from SOE management in the core gameplay, itemization, and a financially based adding of "features" which end up bugged and shelved.Did SOE ever discuss the possibility of a more hardcore server? I have a feeling it would be quite popular.</blockquote>If hardcore would have brought in more money I am sure thats where the game would go. But I suspect it isn't. After all SOE IS in business to make money, not give away the farm.I think it is folley to base the whole game's state on one server experience or even one timezone played. I am on Oasis and it is very different night to day pacific time. The attitudes are different, the population different, finding groups different. Personally I preferr the midnight to 5am crowd <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

scruffylookin

09-27-2011, 06:17 PM

<cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>scruffylookin wrote:</cite><blockquote>I disagree with the assertion that the game became a solo game. From the day it launched, it has been pretty evenly split between solo and group content, and I think it has maintained that throughout its life. On the month of launch, I solo'd/duo'd with my wife up to level 20. We grouped occasionally, just for kicks, but the vast majority of our game was solo. That never changed during our entire history of playing this game. We duo'd then, we duo now. And then and now, there was a ton of content we couldn't do (which is fine) because it's group content. in the first month of launch, this game was soloable all the way up to level 40 (EF and LS were group zones then). That means you could get through 4/5 of the entire game solo. I know, because that's exactly what we did. When DoF came out, it kept that exact model. Solo overland zones, group dungeons. KoS, same model, with the DoF content easier at that point. EoF, same model. When it launched, nobody was doing Kaladim solo. Or unrest. Or catacombs. or Mistmore. RoK had a lot of solo content, becase the overland zones were huge. But it's undeniable that TSO was a group expansion. My wife and I got to experience about 10% of that expansion. SF, good mix. I mean, the hole is a completely devoted to groups, but two major overland zones.And upon launching Velius clearly had a group leaning. I've been on this game since launch, and since day one, I've never had a problem finding group content or finding solo content. Every time any expansion or update is launched that has even the tiniest leaning toward one or the other, you get people claiming it's changed, but it hasn't.</blockquote>You have a really interesting perception of solo vs. group. The overland zones were filled with heroic content at launch. Maybe if you had some really overpowered class combo you could duo them? But I died many times in Nek and Steppes to heroic mobs. Certainly, there has always been some solo content, but I think it's completely ridiculous to try to say that the game hasn't shifted towards solo'ing since launch.EDIT: In 2004, one of my friends quit the game (for a couple years) because he felt he could do nothing at all without a group. Granted, there were some things he could do, but as a solo Assassin in the 20s, he felt like he needed to go LFG. In 2011, he was genuinely disappointed to see so many mobs that used to be heroic now solo. Maybe you could just always duo the overland heroic content or something so you didn't notice it much, but that's the 180 degree shift I've seen in the game since launch.</blockquote>It's far from a 180 shift. Older content is easier now, and there are fewer heroics in overland zones now. I agree. But soloing was always a major part of this game. If it wasn't, my wife and I wouldn't have stuck to it. The solo-ability of EQ2 has always been the one aspect that kept us here. As the years have gone by, all MMO's have become more solo friendly. Look at games like DDO. I was heartbroken to find that I couldn't play DDO when it launched because it wasn't a solo game. So I came back to EQ2. From the day it launched, this game has been the home to my wife and me because of it's solo-ability. Back then, an MMO that allowed people to solo was a very rare beast. Today, it's the norm. And to say it's shifted 180 degrees is a wild exaggeration. The newest expansion, several years into the life of this game, was so group-centric, my wife and I have still haven't explored it fully. TSO was unquestionably a group based expansion. Just because there is more solo content doesn't mean it's a solo game now. I can tell you, as someone that primarily solo's and duo's, there is a massive portion of this game that's still not doable by my wife and me. And that isn't a complaint. I'm glad there's group content for folks. But to pretend that this game doesn't offer much content for groups is simply not true. My best friend has multiple level 90's with full AAs. He's a raider/grouper. Last week, he went questing with my wife and me, just for fun, and we were shocked to find that he had done almost none of the quests because the entire life of his characters is usually in dungeons and raid.

Tallithia

09-27-2011, 06:20 PM

<cite>Gladiolus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Katz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Can you name one that isn't this way?</blockquote>The point is that EQ2 used to be so much better than the rest. Then at some stage they decided that they didn't want to be better, they wanted to be more profitable, and it's been downhill ever since.</blockquote>Obviously the sub rate and profit didnt support them keeping the game as it was. Makeing these changes must be working for them financially or they wouldn't put the money and time into them. I am one who is loving every minute and logging in more. I suspect the majority feels the same or they wouldn't be here playing. The small percentage on these forums doesn't reflect the whole.

Brorimed

09-27-2011, 06:22 PM

<cite>Gladiolus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Katz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Can you name one that isn't this way?</blockquote>The point is that EQ2 used to be so much better than the rest. Then at some stage they decided that they didn't want to be better, they wanted to be more profitable, and it's been downhill ever since.</blockquote>It still is much better than the rest

MurFalad

09-27-2011, 06:56 PM

<cite>Elvenmagic wrote:</cite><blockquote>The realism that used to make this a great fantasy roleplaying game has been exchanged for convenience and fun and cheap ways for SOE to make another buck. A couple of quick examples off the top of my head: globe travel, blazing fast mounts, dinosaur mounts, portals in Qeynos and Freeport to enter housing (I guess they couldn't be bothered with actually making the entrance be someplace real so they just keep lining up more and more portals), Station Marketplace (notice how so much cool looking stuff started miraculously appearing when the marketplace came out?), etc. Honestly, I can't really blame a big company like that in these economic times. I know it's hard to stay in business. But it's really a shame to see such a great game go the way that this game has gone. It definately isn't the same Everquest that captured the imagination of so many fantasy RPG enthusiasts a decade ago. The player base has definately shifted as a result too.</blockquote>There definitely has been added too much convenience at the expense of the feel of being in a fantasy world.One other thing though that really does bother me though is how marketplace items just get added to the game without any storyline, even if it was a good idea I'd still like to see them fitted into Norrath, rather then just released factory style.

Thunderthyze

09-27-2011, 07:07 PM

I suppose the people denying the simplification of the game just weren't there pre GU13. And to use the excuse that other MMOs are like this too is missing the point. EVE shows us that there is definately a market out there for complex "hard" games that don't apologise for the fact that soloers will find it tough. It's a shame that SOE jumped on the WoWwagon along with everyone else and consequently threw away the one individual selling point it had over most other fantasy MMOs. History has shown you can never go back and unfortunately EQnext is unlikely to reverse the trend either. I'm just glad I was here when the game was worth spending time on. Today it's just somewhere I visit occasionally.

salty21db

09-27-2011, 07:11 PM

After being in the MMO community myself for 10+yrs now (I'm sure theres people on here that have been in it longer not trying to compare epeens with that statement) I have come to the conclusion that there isn't much better than SoE. Figured that out a few weeks ago and was enough reason to buy a station pass to dable back into EQ1, EQ2, and maybe even DCUO soon to get my dollar worth.The reason i say this is because I've kinda been "loose" when it comes to trying MMO's trying to find a similar experience of EQ1. Here's what I've come up with:WoW - Huge lack of content for the amount of income. I think they gross around a couple billion a year mainly from merchandise moreso than subs and yet have some of the least amount of content introduced purely because they don't have to as the public will still pay them for a medicore game just due to "it's what everyone else is doing".AoC - Terrible, terrible company with just email contacts and slow responses and even slow sub activation and purhcasing. Mind you it has some of the best MMO graphics out there but still like WoW releases an expansion every 2yrs and has a huge lack of content ultimately.DCUO - Just personally not into non-fantasy MMO's but gonna give it another go after beta.Rift - This to me was the next closest company to SoE (Trion) because they did release a good amount of content and consistent hotfixes with minimal downtime. Really seemed to be on the ball. However I personally hate the reuse of similar content like WoW does and that is what they do with their lower dungeons into their higher teir of dungeons and pretty much have 5-10 total dungeons to run at top lvl and have since release. Perhaps will get better later on.Aion - Seemed like a decent game. Honestly didn't give it a thorough try as it sort of reminded me of a Final Fanasty type MMO (same reason I didn't try the Final Fantasy series MMO) and by the time i gave it a try is when i came to the realization that all MMO's to date are the same and tend to lack content.I've tried countless others including CoH and such but just not going to bother to list at this point. My problem is every game i came across failed to give me an amount of content and "goodies" that can keep me busy with my "more than average" playing time. For the casuals out there (casual meaning don't play much) these other MMO's are great but for someone like me who use them as my primary pastime the companies just fail at delivering the content. One thing imo SoE has done right is releasing loads and loads of content.I honestly could careless what the majority plays. I use the example of "would you rather go to a huge food chain that everyone knows and goes to or would you rather go to the mom and pop place thats only in this one small dismal town?" I'd go to the smaller place because 9/10 they tend to have the better food. Ultimately we all play what we like but the above is my reasoning to play what i play now and will probably stick to for the forseeable future including into EQNext. As I also stated in my post on the EQNext feedback thread on the EQ1 boards. I can give them pointers on how to make an excellent game just like you guys want here with a harder game. But i can guarantee you it won't be a top seller but will have its dedicated few along with myself. It's not what the majority of these todays gamers want. They want what they can get the easiest...you can thank WoW for that kind of mentality...I do almost everyday.SoE....keep bringing the content and I'll keep paying.*Edit* - Ultimately I'm saying...Why are you getting on SoE for what they've done when even though they have "carebear'ed" the game a bit it is still better than what else is out there....what else is out there that is better at the moment?

scruffylookin

09-27-2011, 10:37 PM

<cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>I suppose the people denying the simplification of the game just weren't there pre GU13. And to use the excuse that other MMOs are like this too is missing the point. EVE shows us that there is definately a market out there for complex "hard" games that don't apologise for the fact that soloers will find it tough. It's a shame that SOE jumped on the WoWwagon along with everyone else and consequently threw away the one individual selling point it had over most other fantasy MMOs. History has shown you can never go back and unfortunately EQnext is unlikely to reverse the trend either. I'm just glad I was here when the game was worth spending time on. Today it's just somewhere I visit occasionally.</blockquote>I think most people on both sides of this debate agree the game has been simplified. For me, the real debate is that I disagree with the assertion that simple = dumber and that comlpex= smarter. This game, at launch, was much more time consuming. The game was never any smarter than it is today. The game has been simplified, but not dumbed down. It absolutely did not take more intelligence to play this game at launch. It simply took more patience.

Halo of G4

09-27-2011, 11:12 PM

<cite>shadowdragon665 wrote:</cite><blockquote>As a long time EQ2 player (from the early days) I recently decided to come back after a long hiatus from the game. (The 45 free day offer got me to come back)Sadly, what I found was a mere shell of what was formerly a great MMO experience.So, I pondered ....When did EQ2 become so "dumbed down"? When did it become a "soloable" MMO? And, Im sorry to even make this reference, but, when did EQ2 become a World of Warcraft clone?The gameplay, ugh, where to start. Boring, simple, and watered down. Things that used to take a well put together group yet offered great rewards, are now soloable? Seriously?Crafting has been rendered useless. Im not going to bother with details here, but ask any crafter, Im sure they'll agree.The genernal chat, auction, and lower level channels are like a pre-school ritalin party gone awry. Where did all the nerd ragers come from?I understand SOEs desire to appeal to the masses. After all, its a business, and profit is the bottom line. But, I am saddened by their decisions reguarding this once great MMO.At any rate, to each his own. If you enjoy the game as it currently is, have at it, and enjoy. For me, its just not fun.Like I said, I came back for the 45 days free to see what was new, and sadly, I wont be resubbing. Sorry SOE, you wont be getting my gaming dollars.</blockquote>Lol watered down? Are you serious? Prior to EoF, most, if not all group content was pretty much bland spank and tank. Any group contested/instance was able to be completed with treasured and the more so extinct "uncommon" gear ect. Now take a look at EQ2 today, latest released group zones require FABLED gear. Please, seriously, think about what you're saying. Your responses make no sense, take off the rose tinted goggles.Also I see nothing different with the channels. How are they any different then they were in 2004-06? Games evolve, expansions are brought in to progress the player. We progress so far with so many expansions and new content that were able to easily take down content that was once considered difficult. It's progression, get use to it.<cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>I suppose the people denying the simplification of the game just weren't there pre GU13. And to use the excuse that other MMOs are like this too is missing the point. EVE shows us that there is definately a market out there for complex "hard" games that don't apologise for the fact that soloers will find it tough. It's a shame that SOE jumped on the WoWwagon along with everyone else and consequently threw away the one individual selling point it had over most other fantasy MMOs. History has shown you can never go back and unfortunately EQnext is unlikely to reverse the trend either. I'm just glad I was here when the game was worth spending time on. Today it's just somewhere I visit occasionally.</blockquote>Oh I remember prior to GU13. Buggy content with fish being able to come out of the water for an entire year, hole in the ground tradeskill areas to take eons to craft semi-decent stuff that was easily forgettable after roaming an instance/contested, raid's where level 55 mobs dropped level 40-45 geared stuff, 100's of quests all with the same "kill 100 _____" for junk gear that nobody bothered to do, overland zones filled with heroics, with only 20% of them being hunted, clunky loading times and lag in FP/Qeynos, and access quests up the butt with same "kill 10 of these for uncommon update".There's a difference between tedious and challenging.

SageGaspar

09-27-2011, 11:31 PM

<cite>Halo of G4 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lol watered down? Are you serious? Prior to EoF, most, if not all group content was pretty much bland spank and tank. Any group contested/instance was able to be completed with treasured and the more so extinct "uncommon" gear ect. Now take a look at EQ2 today, latest released group zones require FABLED gear.</blockquote>Yeah and today you get fabled gear from autoattacking in the general vicinity of a ring war and the solo quests shower you with legendary. Do there exist treasured items in Velious?Back in the day it took serious effort to get mastercrafted and you could pretty much forget about fabled. I was wearing handcrafted and treasured at the level cap. It's mudflation, the scales just moved.

Deveryn

09-27-2011, 11:35 PM

<cite>SageGaspar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Halo of G4 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lol watered down? Are you serious? Prior to EoF, most, if not all group content was pretty much bland spank and tank. Any group contested/instance was able to be completed with treasured and the more so extinct "uncommon" gear ect. Now take a look at EQ2 today, latest released group zones require FABLED gear.</blockquote>Yeah and today you get fabled gear from autoattacking in the general vicinity of a ring war and the solo quests shower you with legendary. Do there exist treasured items in Velious?Back in the day it took serious effort to get mastercrafted and you could pretty much forget about fabled. I was wearing handcrafted and treasured at the level cap. It's mudflation, the scales just moved.</blockquote>PQ gear is only enough to get you into the lower end dungeons, where you work for better and better gear. It still takes a lot of effort to really get geared out.

Halo of G4

09-27-2011, 11:46 PM

<cite>SageGaspar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Halo of G4 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lol watered down? Are you serious? Prior to EoF, most, if not all group content was pretty much bland spank and tank. Any group contested/instance was able to be completed with treasured and the more so extinct "uncommon" gear ect. Now take a look at EQ2 today, latest released group zones require FABLED gear.</blockquote>Yeah and today you get fabled gear from autoattacking in the general vicinity of a ring war and the solo quests shower you with legendary. Do there exist treasured items in Velious?Back in the day it took serious effort to get mastercrafted and you could pretty much forget about fabled. I was wearing handcrafted and treasured at the level cap. It's mudflation, the scales just moved.</blockquote>At this point in the game, treasured gear became moot. You can easily name the overland stuff treasured in Velious, it's just a name at the end of the day, the difference is the stats. SoE already learned this. Take a look at the differences between legendary gear from overland solo quests and legendary gear from Drunder/EoW. It's HUGE. Call the overland stuff treasured, i guess that will make you happy *shrugs*

SageGaspar

09-27-2011, 11:46 PM

<cite>Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SageGaspar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Halo of G4 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lol watered down? Are you serious? Prior to EoF, most, if not all group content was pretty much bland spank and tank. Any group contested/instance was able to be completed with treasured and the more so extinct "uncommon" gear ect. Now take a look at EQ2 today, latest released group zones require FABLED gear.</blockquote>Yeah and today you get fabled gear from autoattacking in the general vicinity of a ring war and the solo quests shower you with legendary. Do there exist treasured items in Velious?Back in the day it took serious effort to get mastercrafted and you could pretty much forget about fabled. I was wearing handcrafted and treasured at the level cap. It's mudflation, the scales just moved.</blockquote>PQ gear is only enough to get you into the lower end dungeons, where you work for better and better gear. It still takes a lot of effort to really get geared out.</blockquote>Okay, but the statement I was replying to made it sound like things were trivial because you could do them in treasured. Treasured then is like legendary now. Maybe even more scarce by comparison, cause you basically get showered with legendary.To wit, teleport a pug from today back to icy digs when it launched and they'd still get murdered. Pugs were getting absolutely slaughtered in halls of fate until it got nerfed. I'm not disagreeing the content has gotten harder overall which I'd hope given these people have six years of experience playing this game, but groups weren't facerolling this stuff.

Miznit

09-28-2011, 12:26 AM

<cite>SageGaspar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SageGaspar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Halo of G4 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lol watered down? Are you serious? Prior to EoF, most, if not all group content was pretty much bland spank and tank. Any group contested/instance was able to be completed with treasured and the more so extinct "uncommon" gear ect. Now take a look at EQ2 today, latest released group zones require FABLED gear.</blockquote>Yeah and today you get fabled gear from autoattacking in the general vicinity of a ring war and the solo quests shower you with legendary. Do there exist treasured items in Velious?Back in the day it took serious effort to get mastercrafted and you could pretty much forget about fabled. I was wearing handcrafted and treasured at the level cap. It's mudflation, the scales just moved.</blockquote>PQ gear is only enough to get you into the lower end dungeons, where you work for better and better gear. It still takes a lot of effort to really get geared out.</blockquote>Okay, but the statement I was replying to made it sound like things were trivial because you could do them in treasured. Treasured then is like legendary now. Maybe even more scarce by comparison, cause you basically get showered with legendary.To wit, teleport a pug from today back to icy digs when it launched and they'd still get murdered. Pugs were getting absolutely slaughtered in halls of fate until it got nerfed. I'm not disagreeing the content has gotten harder overall which I'd hope given these people have six years of experience playing this game, but groups weren't facerolling this stuff.</blockquote>Since the topic of Legendary, Treasured, MC, etc has come up, I thought I'd ask this: Does anyone still bother with whether it's Treasured or whatever? Personally, I look at the stats, compare them to what I have on, and if it's an upgrade (or at least SEEMS to be an upgrade...you never know when the next stat change or gear re-do is gonna happen), I put it on. If it isn't, I either broker it or give it to an alt (or guildie) if it's tradable, or vendor trash it if it's no-trade. I mean, what good is a title? I usually don't bother to even see what the item is NAMED, let alone if it's Legendary vs Treasured. If the stats are there, and it's usable by my character, it has a chance. If not, who cares?I'm not trying to argue this, I'm honestly asking if it makes THAT much difference if it says Treasured, MC, Legendary, etc. I think I need to stop, as I'm starting to confuse myself with what I'mtrying to say.

CorpseGoddess

09-28-2011, 12:43 AM

<cite>MurFalad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Elvenmagic wrote:</cite><blockquote>The realism that used to make this a great fantasy roleplaying game has been exchanged for convenience and fun and cheap ways for SOE to make another buck. A couple of quick examples off the top of my head: globe travel, blazing fast mounts, dinosaur mounts, portals in Qeynos and Freeport to enter housing (I guess they couldn't be bothered with actually making the entrance be someplace real so they just keep lining up more and more portals), Station Marketplace (notice how so much cool looking stuff started miraculously appearing when the marketplace came out?), etc. Honestly, I can't really blame a big company like that in these economic times. I know it's hard to stay in business. But it's really a shame to see such a great game go the way that this game has gone. It definately isn't the same Everquest that captured the imagination of so many fantasy RPG enthusiasts a decade ago. The player base has definately shifted as a result too.</blockquote>There definitely has been added too much convenience at the expense of the feel of being in a fantasy world.One other thing though that really does bother me though is how marketplace items just get added to the game without any storyline, even if it was a good idea I'd still like to see them fitted into Norrath, rather then just released factory style.</blockquote>Spending 5+ minutes on a balloon ride in Moors does NOTHING to make me feel like I'm "in a fantasy world". In fact, it absolutely kills my immersion. I get up and do other stuff around my apartment when that happens. Time sinks do not equal immersion. Clicking on a magic pad that immediately teleports me magically to where I want to go? THAT'S fantasy, thank you very much.

Deveryn

09-28-2011, 02:08 AM

<cite>MurFalad wrote:</cite><blockquote>There definitely has been added too much convenience at the expense of the feel of being in a fantasy world.One other thing though that really does bother me though is how marketplace items just get added to the game without any storyline, even if it was a good idea I'd still like to see them fitted into Norrath, rather then just released factory style.</blockquote>I'm not understanding this. Why does a pile of gold, set of cherry furniture or a scottish outfit need a story?As for the convenience options, no one ever said you had to use them, although it's in your best interests to do so if someone's waiting on you. I've seen plenty of people walk, when they could run or teleport. The boats still run, so they're certainly not forcing anything there.

Ruut Li

09-28-2011, 06:20 AM

There is a game outside of DOV and SF heroic zones, and that content is huge and its been 100% DUMBED DOWN, to the point that we can ask why mobs even exist in that content.

Deveryn

09-28-2011, 10:03 AM

<cite>Ruut Li wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is a game outside of DOV and SF heroic zones, and that content is huge and its been 100% DUMBED DOWN, to the point that we can ask why mobs even exist in that content.</blockquote>It was outleveled, not dumbed down. Get it straight.

Tyrus Dracofire

09-28-2011, 10:14 AM

once a week, just log in, no quest, no farming, but just spend cash on SC and then you done playing for a week.

Ruut Li

09-28-2011, 10:19 AM

<cite>Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ruut Li wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is a game outside of DOV and SF heroic zones, and that content is huge and its been 100% DUMBED DOWN, to the point that we can ask why mobs even exist in that content.</blockquote>It was outleveled, not dumbed down. Get it straight.</blockquote>Are you new to the game? Pre t9 has been heavily nerfed (dumbed down) directly by devs. Plus its even more dumbed down by the fact that players are more powerful today, with AA and stats that trivialize the already supernerfed mobs. I hope that by outleved content you mean that toons that level up today are simply more powerful than before, and thats the reason mobs in that content should be buffed imo. please dont tell me you meant outleved as in your level 90 toon massacring thundering steppes...sorry seems like you need to get some facts straight.

Ruut Li

09-28-2011, 10:20 AM

<cite>Tyrus@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>once a week, just log in, no quest, no farming, but just spend cash on SC and then you done playing for a week.</blockquote>the perfect scenario for the devs.

Deveryn

09-28-2011, 10:31 AM

<cite>Ruut Li wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ruut Li wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is a game outside of DOV and SF heroic zones, and that content is huge and its been 100% DUMBED DOWN, to the point that we can ask why mobs even exist in that content.</blockquote>It was outleveled, not dumbed down. Get it straight.</blockquote>Are you new to the game? Pre t9 has been heavily nerfed (dumbed down) directly by devs. Plus its even more dumbed down by the fact that players are more powerful today, with AA and stats that trivialize the already supernerfed mobs. I hope that by outleved content you mean that toons that level up today are simply more powerful than before, and thats the reason mobs in that content should be buffed imo. please dont tell me you meant outleved as in your level 90 toon massacring thundering steppes...sorry seems like you need to get some facts straight.</blockquote>Am I new? See: Join date. It happens in any game, where the level cap rises, even in those that don't. You get to a certain point and things naturally become easier. What's the point of buffing content that nobody really wants to go through anymore? Honestly, there's stuff out there that doesn't even need to be touched to still present a challenge. Have you been to Veeshan's Peak? You still need a handful of people to take down some of the named in there.btw, if you actually want some change out of this whole situation, you need to elaborate a bit more. A problem like this is never going to be solved by saying something like "Everything before DoV and SF is dumbed down" Try proposing some detailed fixes and maybe that'll give the devs something to work with.

IvyBlackrose

09-28-2011, 11:06 AM

you know, honestly ive tried almost every mmo out there in my search for a new game to play because im sick and tired of the issues with eq2, BUT to be honest NONE of them come even close to EQ2 so here I am playing EQ2 and dealing with it, instead of you guys complaining all the time why dont you go see for yourself? go TRY other games, but be fair about it, and at the end of the game MOST of you will probably reach the same conclusion I did:There is no place like home, and home is EQ2 even with all its issues

Ruut Li

09-28-2011, 11:12 AM

<cite>Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ruut Li wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ruut Li wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is a game outside of DOV and SF heroic zones, and that content is huge and its been 100% DUMBED DOWN, to the point that we can ask why mobs even exist in that content.</blockquote>It was outleveled, not dumbed down. Get it straight.</blockquote>Are you new to the game? Pre t9 has been heavily nerfed (dumbed down) directly by devs. Plus its even more dumbed down by the fact that players are more powerful today, with AA and stats that trivialize the already supernerfed mobs. I hope that by outleved content you mean that toons that level up today are simply more powerful than before, and thats the reason mobs in that content should be buffed imo. please dont tell me you meant outleved as in your level 90 toon massacring thundering steppes...sorry seems like you need to get some facts straight.</blockquote>Am I new? See: Join date. It happens in any game, where the level cap rises, even in those that don't. You get to a certain point and things naturally become easier.Mob population in thundering steppes (and tons of other overland zones) have been directly nerfed (nothing natural about that) to make the place easier than solo level. On top of that the zones are made even easier "naturally, due to what I mentioned earlier: more powerful toons. Are you even reading my posts? or just imagining what I will be saying after 3 words? What's the point of buffing content that nobody really wants to go through anymore?Nobody? wheres that poll result from? If you want to be able to create a level 90 toon it doesnt mean everyone else wants to skip the leveling part of the game. The reason i dont want to, but have to, go through the overland zones while leveling is that they are so mindnumbingly boring. Its like the zones are adapted to severe mental impairments. Honestly, there's stuff out there that doesn't even need to be touched to still present a challenge. Have you been to Veeshan's Peak? You still need a handful of people to take down some of the named in there.Oh I need to group in vp? whoopdeedoo. Is there a reason I should go there though? Totally missed that on all my alts! Have you been to stormhold? zzzz, Have you been to thundering steppes? zzzz. Not that I propose to make ts group content, but simply buff the mobs a bit to make it a bit interesting.btw, if you actually want some change out of this whole situation, you need to elaborate a bit more. A problem like this is never going to be solved by saying something like "Everything before DoV and SF is dumbed down" Try proposing some detailed fixes and maybe that'll give the devs something to work with.Yea..if you read my post: Im proposing to buff mobs so that they match the power of the player. What is the point of having all those aa:s and sweet stats?</blockquote>

ObsidianNightmare

09-28-2011, 11:32 AM

<cite>Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ruut Li wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ruut Li wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is a game outside of DOV and SF heroic zones, and that content is huge and its been 100% DUMBED DOWN, to the point that we can ask why mobs even exist in that content.</blockquote>It was outleveled, not dumbed down. Get it straight.</blockquote>Are you new to the game? Pre t9 has been heavily nerfed (dumbed down) directly by devs. Plus its even more dumbed down by the fact that players are more powerful today, with AA and stats that trivialize the already supernerfed mobs. I hope that by outleved content you mean that toons that level up today are simply more powerful than before, and thats the reason mobs in that content should be buffed imo. please dont tell me you meant outleved as in your level 90 toon massacring thundering steppes...sorry seems like you need to get some facts straight.</blockquote>Am I new? See: Join date. It happens in any game, where the level cap rises, even in those that don't. You get to a certain point and things naturally become easier. What's the point of buffing content that nobody really wants to go through anymore? Honestly, there's stuff out there that doesn't even need to be touched to still present a challenge. Have you been to Veeshan's Peak? You still need a handful of people to take down some of the named in there.btw, if you actually want some change out of this whole situation, you need to elaborate a bit more. A problem like this is never going to be solved by saying something like "Everything before DoV and SF is dumbed down" Try proposing some detailed fixes and maybe that'll give the devs something to work with.</blockquote>What is being referred to as far as boosting lower level contested/overland zones is probably something you aren't aware of much considering your join date. It has little to do with the level cap increase.All the overland zones had Heroic ^^^ encounters in many areas at the start of this game for quite a while.. Maybe into EoF they started changing it. So, this is a challenge that has been long removed from the game and makes many long time players sad to see what those mobs were replaced with when passing by - easily soloable/overconned mobs that can almost usually be 1 shot down by even at level characters with semi-decent gear doing their solo questing in the area. Epic x2 encounters were also changed to herioc encounters and also several names that were ^^^ Heroic were changed to ^ Heroic. Not very heroic in the least. It's fine to dumb down the content for the solo quest lines however there should have been some corners of the map and contested encouters left untouched.There was mention a long time ago of re-vamping these zones to at least meet up with the stat level increases in new gear and to increase the health to match the challenge. Fact is that until you hit RoK Herioc zones EVERYTHING including heroic content is no match for toons with even con level and decent gear. Even in Heroic zones in RoK, encounters end in a blink of an eye. Fine, Whatever. This whole issue is NOT IMPORTANT in comparison with fixing the CURRENT problems existing with gear at L90 and gameplay issues stated eloquently in other treads.IMHO The BOOSTING THE CONFIDENCE OF YOUR PLAYERBASE IN THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM OF THIS GAME IS ALSO IMPORTANT GOING FORWARD.

Deveryn

09-28-2011, 11:48 AM

<cite>Ruut Li wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote> What's the point of buffing content that nobody really wants to go through anymore?Nobody? wheres that poll result from? If you want to be able to create a level 90 toon it doesnt mean everyone else wants to skip the leveling part of the game. The reason i dont want to, but have to, go through the overland zones while leveling is that they are so mindnumbingly boring. Its like the zones are adapted to severe mental impairments. Honestly, there's stuff out there that doesn't even need to be touched to still present a challenge. Have you been to Veeshan's Peak? You still need a handful of people to take down some of the named in there.Oh I need to group in vp? whoopdeedoo. Is there a reason I should go there though? Totally missed that on all my alts! Have you been to stormhold? zzzz, Have you been to thundering steppes? zzzz. Not that I propose to make ts group content, but simply buff the mobs a bit to make it a bit interesting.</blockquote></blockquote>If you don't care about VP, why should anyone care about any other zone? When you're done throwing insults, maybe we can have a legit discussion here.

Jaydan

09-28-2011, 11:48 AM

<cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite><blockquote>For me a dream MMO is one which doesn't use "aggro circles" for example, oh look a group of mobs, they won't notice me if I stay out of their aggro circle, lets just thread our way around all these groups as if they were not there. I'd like some reality, I'm approaching the dungeon, a scout spots me and runs back to sound the alarm and mayhem ensues, stuff like that is what I dream future MMO's will bring. I fear the whole aggro circle, grind gear, push buttons is the only thing we have nowadays until someone thinks outside the box.</blockquote>Dungeons & Dragons Online. It's actually a really good game. But it lacks the social elements that EQ2 is very strong in. There's virtually no RP in DDO.And the FtP model burned me out fast, especially since not everyone has access to the same content. You have to buy adventure packs from the marketplace.But it is very immersive. What you described instantlty made me think of it because that is exactly how it is. You might be sneaking through a dungeon and you get too close to a wandering kobold in the torchlight. Even though you are stealthed he detected you and runs to a bell. Strikes the bell and 6 more kobolds answer the call from down the hall.

Rick777

09-28-2011, 12:01 PM

<cite>Jaydan@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite><blockquote>For me a dream MMO is one which doesn't use "aggro circles" for example, oh look a group of mobs, they won't notice me if I stay out of their aggro circle, lets just thread our way around all these groups as if they were not there. I'd like some reality, I'm approaching the dungeon, a scout spots me and runs back to sound the alarm and mayhem ensues, stuff like that is what I dream future MMO's will bring. I fear the whole aggro circle, grind gear, push buttons is the only thing we have nowadays until someone thinks outside the box.</blockquote>Dungeons & Dragons Online. It's actually a really good game. But it lacks the social elements that EQ2 is very strong in. There's virtually no RP in DDO.And the FtP model burned me out fast, especially since not everyone has access to the same content. You have to buy adventure packs from the marketplace.But it is very immersive. What you described instantlty made me think of it because that is exactly how it is. You might be sneaking through a dungeon and you get too close to a wandering kobold in the torchlight. Even though you are stealthed he detected you and runs to a bell. Strikes the bell and 6 more kobolds answer the call from down the hall.</blockquote>Yes I tried out DDO for a while and actually quite enjoyed it. Although as you say I did miss the socialibility aspect, although maybe I didn't give it enough time to make friends. This is what turned me OFF in Rift big time, it was the same thing, you have a bunch of buttons in front of you that you press, that's the first anti-immersion tool, then you have a global cooldown timer so in between EVERY spell/ability you have to just stare at your screen as the gcd refreshes, yeah great for immersion. Then you have a big overland zone with mobs just sprinkled around haphazardly just standing around doing nothing at all, if you stay the requisite distance away from them then NOTHING happens, but guess what that quest item you have to harvest is right next to a camp of several of them, wow you really surprised me there.I just think this whole formula that MMO's are using today was fresh 10 years ago (or more) and we all enjoyed it. We were willing to put up with the time sinks and hardcore play because it was all new. Now here we are 10 years later all jaded and this stuff is just boring to us, it's just too transparent to see how the mechanics work and how truly simple they are. I think that's why a lot of us love raiding so much, it's the last truly difficult thing left to do in MMO's, and it's really not that difficult anyway.

RadarX

09-28-2011, 01:04 PM

This has spiraled off topic so we'll go ahead and lay it to rest. The development team very much appreciates your feedback.