Dungeon Finder Feedback Thread [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Zoltaroth

09-20-2011, 06:20 PM

Hello Testers!Dungeon Finder is going to test today and we need your feedback! I am opening this thread for bug reports and feedback but please keep in mind a few things: <ul><li>/feedback and /bug are a much better way for you to send us bug reports and feedback; even if you post in this thread you should also report your issue in game.</li><li>Please be as detailed as possible with your bug reports. The better and faster we can reproduce your issue the faster we can fix it.</li><li>Placing Bugs under /bug and Feedback under /feedback means your report has a much better chance of getting looked at or resolved.</li></ul><div>Here are a list of known issues:</div><div><ol><li>(Medium) You may occasionally see a chat message saying " has left the group". (It should be showing a player name.)</li><li>(Immediate) The DF may occasionally swap you to a new group immediately after zoning to another group. This is rare in our experience, but a bad issue and is being worked on currently.</li><li>(Medium) Groups can occasionally get stuck in a Reinforce state. The result of this is that every time someone leaves the group, the DF automatically extends an invitation to a new player without being asked to do so.</li><li>(Medium) If you are part of a DF group, and you leave the dungeon, and then click on the door to re-enter the dungeon, you are correctly zoned to the correct dungeon instance, but DF becomes confused and thinks you're not with a DF group, allowing you to access the DF options. To avoid this, just use the RETURN button when returning to your group and this issue will not occur.</li><li>(High) There is a state we are attempting to find now that sticks a player in a state where they are unable to find new DF matches. This is uncommon but very high priority for the dev team.</li><li>(High) You get told that "you are not a member of the group" when requesting Reinforcements (even though you're currently the leader of that group). Disbanding the group and regrouping (manually, or by exiting and requeuing in DF) are the current workarounds.</li><li>(Medium) You may receive a DF invite, then zone to the dungeon instance, and see all the players arrive that should be in your group, but not actually be invited to the group. If this occurs, just have someone invite you normally and you can keep playing correctly.</li><li>(Medium) We have not yet added the functionality, but soon, when a Reinforcement is added, they will warp directly to the group leader's location (instead of to the front door as they do currently).</li><li>(Medium) The "Reinforce" button should be a toggle state, changing to "Reinforcing..." while the system looks for new recruits. This will also prevent spam-clicking the button, as well as giving good feedback that the system is looking for players for you.</li></ol><div>Thanks!</div></div>

Nrgy

09-20-2011, 06:44 PM

The Dungeon Finder systems need to respect the /ignore feature... IF one player felt strongly enough to /Ignore a player, Block any direct personal /Tells, lock them out of their House, Guild Hall and otherwise stay as far away from another player as they could, it would be OK to drop them in a group and force them to spend the next hour side-by-side ...Any Daily/Daily Double/Dominance quest should be available within the zone ... zoning 6 people into a zone from all over Norath only to find out that they have to zone back out to pick up the quests, sometimes quite a ways away, might seem burdening. Especially if 1/2 the group wants to clear it for the quests and 1/2 the group wants to run it at supersonic speed.Any toon which is already 90/300 cannot benefit from any XP bonus rewarded by using the Dungeon Finder. A current level shard or plat or both would be a much more enticing reward.

Cyliena

09-20-2011, 06:48 PM

A feature showing who is in queue would be nice. Been sitting in queue for almost 2 hours on Test Copy wondering what is preventing those of us in queue from forming a group.

Shaolin Sam

09-20-2011, 07:01 PM

Is the Dungeon LFG Tool going to be for your server only or will it pull players from all servers to make a group? Only asking due to cross server pulls will be 10000000000000 times more effective than using the pool from your home server only.

Cyliena

09-20-2011, 07:06 PM

<cite>Shaolin Sam wrote:</cite><blockquote>Is the Dungeon LFG Tool going to be for your server only or will it pull players from all servers to make a group? Only asking due to cross server pulls will be 10000000000000 times more effective than using the pool from your home server only.</blockquote>Same server only.<img src="http://i52.tinypic.com/i57o7d.jpg" width="293" height="30" />Might want to fix the "estimated wait time", I think it may be not caluculating correctly.Waited 2.5 hours. I give up, sorry. Wish ya'll had run it like Battlegrounds initial testing when the devs came charging in to help groups get going on Copy. Glad the normal Test server got to test it out some.

Shaolin Sam

09-20-2011, 07:13 PM

Looking for a "Red" response though. Reason for this is I actually knew it was same server only atm. Problem is, is it going to be CROSS-SERVER anytime soon?Question was more tossed out there so it could be discussed and answered so Smokejumper doesn't forget about it.

Bremer

09-20-2011, 07:15 PM

<ul><li>The zone selection should be more structured. Instead of a list of all ~30 lvl 90 zones the zones should be grouped by expansion (Velious, SF) and difficulty (eg easy: Tower, Hold Of Rime, medium: KD, hard: Drunder)</li><li>Elements of War and Tower x2 should be included</li><li>when you select zones and camp the game forgets your choices. Bad, if you want to run the same zones all the time</li><li>the DF checks only crit mit, not crit chance. I could queue for Drunder with 30 Crit. You should not be able to queue for a zone unless you have at least 80 % crit chance there</li><li>information, how many people queue for a dungeon would be helpful. The average queue timer for BG is completely broken (by the way, what happened to the BG tab?), when the DF uses the same algorithm like the BG queue you can just remove the feature</li><li>I couldn't test how the group builder works, because after 10 minutes in the queue nothing happened (although the average queue timer says 5 minutes...). But please say that the code differs from the BG matchmaker, that builds groups, where one side has 2 healers and the other 2 tanks. So hopefully it won't send a group somewhere unless the group has a bard, a tank, a healer and an enchanter.</li></ul>

infa

09-20-2011, 07:19 PM

Shaolin Sam

09-20-2011, 07:46 PM

Exactly... hence the "Problem is, is it going to be CROSS-SERVER anytime soon?" and the "so Smokejumper doesn't forget about it." parts of my commentary <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Condara

09-20-2011, 08:02 PM

How about having a feature that allows the group leader to set the group make-upie.Slot 1 <dragmenu>Slot 2 <dragmenu>etc.Let the drag menu = generic choices for gettin going quick and specific classes for harder zonesFor easier zones i might want to get started asap so i would put tank healer dps dps dps util.but harder zones i would build a melee group or a caster group and specify whether i want a dirge or a troub.

Rhyashaa

09-20-2011, 10:57 PM

Quote:NOTE: The zones available when you open the Dungeon Finder interface are based on your character's actual level, not your currently mentored level, if you are mentored. Mentored levels have no effect on DF matchmaking. I am disappointed with this personally. I'm level 90 but frequently chrono-mentor and go off to do lower level zones/dungeons. I would prefer to be able to use the dungeon finder to explore (older) content that I either missed or haven't done in awhile. Please reconsider this "feature".

Felshades

09-21-2011, 12:13 AM

<cite>Bremer wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>The zone selection should be more structured. Instead of a list of all ~30 lvl 90 zones the zones should be grouped by expansion (Velious, SF) and difficulty (eg easy: Tower, Hold Of Rime, medium: KD, hard: Drunder)</li><li>Elements of War and Tower x2 should be included</li><li>I don't want to pug EoW and TOFSx2 with people I have no idea if they're competent or not. I don't think many others do either.</li><li>when you select zones and camp the game forgets your choices. Bad, if you want to run the same zones all the time</li><li>the DF checks only crit mit, not crit chance. I could queue for Drunder with 30 Crit. You should not be able to queue for a zone unless you have at least 80 % crit chance there</li><li>information, how many people queue for a dungeon would be helpful. The average queue timer for BG is completely broken (by the way, what happened to the BG tab?), when the DF uses the same algorithm like the BG queue you can just remove the feature</li><li>I couldn't test how the group builder works, because after 10 minutes in the queue nothing happened (although the average queue timer says 5 minutes...). But please say that the code differs from the BG matchmaker, that builds groups, where one side has 2 healers and the other 2 tanks. So hopefully it won't send a group somewhere unless the group has a bard, a tank and an enchanter.</li></ul></blockquote>

Leucippus

09-21-2011, 12:24 AM

<cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bremer wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>The zone selection should be more structured. Instead of a list of all ~30 lvl 90 zones the zones should be grouped by expansion (Velious, SF) and difficulty (eg easy: Tower, Hold Of Rime, medium: KD, hard: Drunder)</li><li>Elements of War and Tower x2 should be included</li><li>I don't want to pug EoW and TOFSx2 with people I have no idea if they're competent or not. I don't think many others do either.</li><li>when you select zones and camp the game forgets your choices. Bad, if you want to run the same zones all the time</li><li>the DF checks only crit mit, not crit chance. I could queue for Drunder with 30 Crit. You should not be able to queue for a zone unless you have at least 80 % crit chance there</li><li>information, how many people queue for a dungeon would be helpful. The average queue timer for BG is completely broken (by the way, what happened to the BG tab?), when the DF uses the same algorithm like the BG queue you can just remove the feature</li><li>I couldn't test how the group builder works, because after 10 minutes in the queue nothing happened (although the average queue timer says 5 minutes...). But please say that the code differs from the BG matchmaker, that builds groups, where one side has 2 healers and the other 2 tanks. So hopefully it won't send a group somewhere unless the group has a bard, a tank and an enchanter.</li></ul></blockquote></blockquote>There is a check box next to each zone you want to queue for. So, if you don't want to queue for a particular zone, just clear the check box.-Leucippus

feldon30

09-21-2011, 06:27 AM

<cite>Shaolin Sam wrote:</cite><blockquote>Looking for a "Red" response though. Reason for this is I actually knew it was same server only atm. Problem is, is it going to be CROSS-SERVER anytime soon?Question was more tossed out there so it could be discussed and answered so Smokejumper doesn't forget about it.</blockquote>My totally unofficial prediction is cross-server grouping is 6-9 months away at least.Why do Battlegrounds work?Going to the Battlegrounds server is basically a free server transfer. And when you leave, your character is then deleted from Battlegrounds.Also, many game features are disabled:<ul><li>Marketplace</li><li>Claim window</li><li>Mentoring</li><li>Housing</li><li>World Chat</li><li>Trading Items</li><li>Broker</li><li>Banker</li><li>Mender</li><li>Transmuting</li></ul>If they have to make those work in cross-server grouping, that's a LOT of work.Another issue though is, what if you have the same character name as a character on the target server? Are they going to add an x to the end of my name?Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of work.

wullailhuit

09-21-2011, 07:34 AM

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shaolin Sam wrote:</cite><blockquote>Looking for a "Red" response though. Reason for this is I actually knew it was same server only atm. Problem is, is it going to be CROSS-SERVER anytime soon?Question was more tossed out there so it could be discussed and answered so Smokejumper doesn't forget about it.</blockquote>My totally unofficial prediction is cross-server grouping is 6-9 months away at least.Why do Battlegrounds work?Going to the Battlegrounds server is basically a free server transfer. And when you leave, your character is then deleted from Battlegrounds.Also, many game features are disabled:<ul><li>Marketplace</li><li>Claim window</li><li>Mentoring</li><li>Housing</li><li>World Chat</li><li>Trading Items</li><li>Broker</li><li>Banker</li><li>Mender</li><li>Transmuting</li></ul>If they have to make those work in cross-server grouping, that's a LOT of work.Another issue though is, what if you have the same character name as a character on the target server? Are they going to add an x to the end of my name?Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of work.</blockquote>Here are my predictions , I've rubbed my magic 8-ball and this is what it saidTrading , Mentoring , Housing , Banker , Broker & Claim Window will be disabledMender , Standard channels , Marketplace and Transmuting will be kept as is.Your name will be <charname>-<Server> when you move between servers to group.

Bremer

09-21-2011, 10:07 AM

<cite>Leucippus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><ul><li>I don't want to pug EoW and TOFSx2 with people I have no idea if they're competent or not. I don't think many others do either.</li></ul></blockquote></blockquote>There is a check box next to each zone you want to queue for. So, if you don't want to queue for a particular zone, just clear the check box.-Leucippus</blockquote>You always risk getting incompetent players with the DF. But when they fulfill the crit chance/mit requirements for EoW they are more likely competent. And a group than clear a Drunder zone can also easily clear the Tower x2 (except the boss) and Drunder is included.

Nrgy

09-21-2011, 10:36 AM

<cite>Wullailduo@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shaolin Sam wrote:</cite><blockquote>Looking for a "Red" response though. Reason for this is I actually knew it was same server only atm. Problem is, is it going to be CROSS-SERVER anytime soon?Question was more tossed out there so it could be discussed and answered so Smokejumper doesn't forget about it.</blockquote>My totally unofficial prediction is cross-server grouping is 6-9 months away at least.Why do Battlegrounds work?Going to the Battlegrounds server is basically a free server transfer. And when you leave, your character is then deleted from Battlegrounds.Also, many game features are disabled:<ul><li>Marketplace</li><li>Claim window</li><li>Mentoring</li><li>Housing</li><li>World Chat</li><li>Trading Items</li><li>Broker</li><li>Banker</li><li>Mender</li><li>Transmuting</li></ul>If they have to make those work in cross-server grouping, that's a LOT of work.Another issue though is, what if you have the same character name as a character on the target server? Are they going to add an x to the end of my name?Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of work.</blockquote>Here are my predictions , I've rubbed my magic 8-ball and this is what it saidTrading , Mentoring , Housing , Banker , Broker & Claim Window will be disabledMender , Standard channels , Marketplace and Transmuting will be kept as is.Your name will be - when you move between servers to group.</blockquote>Disabling everything except Trading would be fine, albeit annoying. But disabling Trading will turn the accidential ninja looters into intentinional NINJA looters ... but they can always put the "Need Only on Class Items" code back in place, I mean this code was intiailly designed specifically for the DF system anyway.

Nijia

09-21-2011, 11:05 AM

I don't understand why people get so concerned about there being or lacking cross server grouping.The DF does not have to have cross server to work.Time and again when I build groups, and when I leave, I see that people have either no confidence, no leadership, or simply no imagination. They disband when they could easily replace me. I leave the group and a minute later you see someone from the group going LFG.Time and again, when I join an existing group, I find myself sending invites on the chat channels and filling up the remaining slots because the group "leader" (cough) can't even do that properly.Time and again, when I am not so lucky, I do a /who out of frustration and there you have it: 10-20 players in the level range in the current outdoor zone to the dungeon I wanna run, and nobody sends a tell. "Oh, but they are questing" Really?In short: people are either afraid to PUG, too passive to start their own groups, too unimaginative to post a funny group invite on the chat channels, etc.There is NO lack of people to group. Just lack of a good interface to pull groups together.The LFG tool was a fail. It's nothing more than a search box, and last time I tried you still have to juggle with tells. Obviously it was destined to be a failure.And so will this DF most likely, regardless of being cross server or not.This thing is supposed to help people fill groups, not to give an extra advantage to guilds who can already fill their groups. So to see already people interested in using the DF with a full group for the sole reason of easier zone in and getting an XP bonus, doesn't bode well...

LilNut

09-21-2011, 11:35 AM

<cite>Nijia@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't understand why people get so concerned about there being or lacking cross server grouping.The DF does not have to have cross server to work.Time and again when I build groups, and when I leave, I see that people have either no confidence, no leadership, or simply no imagination. They disband when they could easily replace me. I leave the group and a minute later you see someone from the group going LFG.Time and again, when I join an existing group, I find myself sending invites on the chat channels and filling up the remaining slots because the group "leader" (cough) can't even do that properly.Time and again, when I am not so lucky, I do a /who out of frustration and there you have it: 10-20 players in the level range in the current outdoor zone to the dungeon I wanna run, and nobody sends a tell. "Oh, but they are questing" Really?In short: people are either afraid to PUG, too passive to start their own groups, too unimaginative to post a funny group invite on the chat channels, etc.There is NO lack of people to group. Just lack of a good interface to pull groups together.The LFG tool was a fail. It's nothing more than a search box, and last time I tried you still have to juggle with tells. Obviously it was destined to be a failure.And so will this DF most likely, regardless of being cross server or not.This thing is supposed to help people fill groups, not to give an extra advantage to guilds who can already fill their groups. So to see already people interested in using the DF with a full group for the sole reason of easier zone in and getting an XP bonus, doesn't bode well...</blockquote>i half agree with you and half think your being a negative nancy.i think people will be surprised how effective this tool is going to be without being cross server.i too have found that making groups isnt all that difficult, as long as i put the effort into advertising, sending tells, basically a minimal amount of work. theres plenty of people out there who want to group.a question: do i que for a df group then join once it is all full? when someone leaves, can i only fill their spot using df? or i can i still use the traditional method of sending tells and advertising?

Banditman

09-21-2011, 11:57 AM

I am sure this will get lost, but here goes anyway so I can come back later and say "I told you so".If this feature launches, and is not cross server, it will fail miserably. Honestly, they should simply NOT LAUNCH this feature until cross server is part of the equation.We already have a LFG tool that works on our home server. How much does that get used? Yea . . . I know. If this tool is not cross server, it will simply NOT WORK. People will just fall back to level chat as usual. A Dungeon Finder *NEEDS* to offer functionality above and beyond what we already have, and this rollout as it currently stands FALLS WELL SHORT.I understand the desire to offer something the players want. We want it. SOE wants it. However, sending it out short on functionality will do irreparable harm to it's reputation and acceptance.RELEASE THIS FEATURE WHEN IT IS TRULY READY.

StAyXreal

09-21-2011, 12:33 PM

I ask myself why we have only a 25%xp bonus when i play a lvl90 toon with 300 aa and full mastered... give us a platin bonus or a random legendary or fabled item as reward for completing the zone like wow or rift.I hope you can change this things it makes the dungeon finder more interesting for me and my friends.Another question is, can we search players world wide when we are located on the german server valor?However thanks for this nice feature.

Nijia

09-21-2011, 12:34 PM

<cite>Rhyashaa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Quote:NOTE: The zones available when you open the Dungeon Finder interface are based on your character's actual level, not your currently mentored level, if you are mentored. Mentored levels have no effect on DF matchmaking. I am disappointed with this personally. I'm level 90 but frequently chrono-mentor and go off to do lower level zones/dungeons. I would prefer to be able to use the dungeon finder to explore (older) content that I either missed or haven't done in awhile. Please reconsider this "feature".</blockquote>No, it's a good thing. It may finally provide a way to enjoy dungeons at the intended difficulty and level range.If you are level 90, firstly, you don't need anybody else as you can solo lower tier dungeons (admittedly some classes easier than others), and secondly, you are not going to "explore" anything as the Dungeon Finder will assemble the equivalent of PUG groups, whose main objective is to slice and dice everything that breathes or moves in the zone, get some good loot and experience.If you want to enjoy older content your best bet now hopefully will be to create an alt that you level more slowly and finds groups into those zones more easily with the Dungeon Finder.If you want exploration achievements, complete collections, and such, then you have toadmit that it is mostly a self fulfilling endeavour and has nothing to do with grouping with people and doing a dungeon together. There's nothing wrong with those goals per se, but they are not grouping incentives.Besides, think about it: you, and several other people queue up for lower tier dungeons... what happens? Some poor level 40 guy finds himself in the company of 3 mentored level 90's. Completely trashing out the zone, rushing it all because they just want discoveries and have not much loot to look forward to, or otherwise because it's just way too easy.

Leucippus

09-21-2011, 01:09 PM

There should be another feature of the Dungeon Finder.Two check boxes:(a) Checked if you are looking to quest in the zone.(b) Checked if you are looking to farm the zone.In a way, those farming a zone get a bit annoyed by those questing in a zone, and vice versa. Those two groups don't have the same goals. Those toons questing want to take the time needed to fully explore the zone. Those toons farming have already seen the zone too many times, and just want to get in and get out as fast as possible. Those two motives do not work well together. Norrath would be a less stressful place if there was a way to keep toons with those two goals seperate when possible, or at least not forcing them to mingle.-Leucippus

SmokeJumper

09-21-2011, 01:31 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am sure this will get lost, but here goes anyway so I can come back later and say "I told you so".If this feature launches, and is not cross server, it will fail miserably. Honestly, they should simply NOT LAUNCH this feature until cross server is part of the equation.We already have a LFG tool that works on our home server. How much does that get used? Yea . . . I know. If this tool is not cross server, it will simply NOT WORK. People will just fall back to level chat as usual. A Dungeon Finder *NEEDS* to offer functionality above and beyond what we already have, and this rollout as it currently stands FALLS WELL SHORT.I understand the desire to offer something the players want. We want it. SOE wants it. However, sending it out short on functionality will do irreparable harm to it's reputation and acceptance.RELEASE THIS FEATURE WHEN IT IS TRULY READY.</blockquote>Respectfully, we disagree.There are more than enough people on each individual server to keep Dungeon Finder running with same server capabilities only.Plus, same-server dungeon finder has the merit of matching you up with people on your own server, so you can actually find those people again later if you want to regroup with them.If/when we do cross-server matchmaking, it will be optional only. Some players don't want to play with anonymous strangers that they will never see again. It will not be forced upon you.DF (and later, Mercenaries) are going to be huge boons for the small-group player that likes to explore and play content. And same-server Dungeon Finder will help those players hook up with people that they can group with later.It certainly won't be "a fail". <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Leucippus

09-21-2011, 02:12 PM

Question: if six people queue at random, and are selected to group, then which one is the group leader and what loot options are selected?-Leucippus

Dethdlr

09-21-2011, 02:18 PM

Lempo

09-21-2011, 02:19 PM

<cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite><blockquote>Disabling everything except Trading would be fine, albeit annoying. But disabling Trading will turn the accidential ninja looters into intentinional NINJA looters ... but they can always put the "Need Only on Class Items" code back in place, I mean this code was intiailly designed specifically for the DF system anyway.</blockquote>It may have been initailly designed for the DF but was going to be implemented across the board.They could allow trading of items that were looted in the dungeon, there is already code there that flags the items tradeable by anyone in the group the trade window could be made to only allow items flagged as such to go in when in a DF instance.The need only on class items was thought up with good intentions but it really is worse than the good it could do.

Cyliena

09-21-2011, 02:26 PM

Just curious, what roles need to be filled for a DF group to be initiated? To go along with my original idea of showing who is in queue on page 1, it'd be nice to also see what roles are lacking so that people can change to an appropriate toon if needed. For example, this is how Rift does it:<img src="http://eq2.zam.com/Im/Image/196400.png" width="490" height="203" />Basically as soon as two people meet group roles it begins filling a group. The rest of the roles attempt to be filled and you must declare that you are ready to be transported in within the 1 minute time frame.While my main isn't at a full 300 AAs yet I have to agree with others that the 25% exp bonus is not enticing to the many that are at 90/300. A coin and/or status point incentive might entice more people to queue for random dungeons.edit: Also, is there a way to vote-kick people from group if they are inactive for a certain amount of time? Is there anything that will time-lock people from queueing up again right away?

jjlo69

09-21-2011, 02:33 PM

one thing id like to see if it is not already mentionedbreak down the random quest by expansion and if you goto SF or TSO instead of DOV zones give a bounus OF DOV shards for running those zones. I know some have stated thay dont want the X2's put in but if you all deside to put them in offer extra raid shards for running it.

Ashmen_Skimmerhorn

09-21-2011, 02:56 PM

If it is not cross-server then it is useless, people will just use level chat to find groups.The only reason I can see for SOE not to make it cross-server is because that would make mercenaries useless when they come out and SOE will probably charge station cash for mercenaries and a cross-server dungeon finder would cut into their potential cash (greed).

salty21db

09-21-2011, 03:08 PM

<cite>Batu@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>If it is not cross-server then it is useless, people will just use level chat to find groups.The only reason I can see for SOE not to make it cross-server is because that would make mercenaries useless when they come out and SOE will probably charge station cash for mercenaries and a cross-server dungeon finder would cut into their potential cash (greed).</blockquote>It has been stated numerous times in this thread and i whole heartedly agree. Whether it's cross server or not peoples main problem is actually starting the group. I too see a bunch of people LFG who make up an entire group yet they never form one until i start it or some other brave soul does. This DF will take out the problem of people having to form the groups and i see it being a great addition in the long run as the kinks get worked out and things get added to it.P.S. - Love the idea of making Cross Server and having it be optional.

Shaolin Sam

09-21-2011, 03:50 PM

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Another issue though is, what if you have the same character name as a character on the target server? Are they going to add an x to the end of my name?Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of work.</blockquote>The name thing really should be a non-issue. How they do it in all the other games is like... say... you have a character named Feldon on 3 servers and they all end up in the same group. Here's what you've got.Joebob-ButcherblockFred-UnrestFeldon-ButcherblockFeldon-ValorFeldon-FreeportSparkyjoe-Permafrost6 man teams are simply suffix'd with the server they're from. That instantly renders each name as unique.

Deago

09-21-2011, 04:18 PM

Edit: Forgot about 'copy' LOL moving along.... <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Anyway I find this a great add-on in theory and pray it holds.Will try it out.

Soresha

09-21-2011, 05:24 PM

A question, or perhaps point of confusion...I queue up in DF. Then whilst waiting I join a friend in a group for some reason, maybe just to meet them to trade or such, doesn't have to be a real adventuring group. (I'm not the group leader.) Am I still queued? It says I am. If I get offered a group, will it fail when I accept because I'm already grouped? If it fails because I didn't disband first, do I then lose the slot for that group, if the UI window has closed I can't get it back?I'm not able to test this atm, so I'm just playing devil's advocate here. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Likewise if I'm grouped first (and not leader) I'm still able to then queue up individually in DF whilst grouped. Does this mean people can "jump groups"? That would seem to allow anti-social behaviour.

Eileah

09-21-2011, 06:44 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am sure this will get lost, but here goes anyway so I can come back later and say "I told you so".If this feature launches, and is not cross server, it will fail miserably. Honestly, they should simply NOT LAUNCH this feature until cross server is part of the equation.We already have a LFG tool that works on our home server. How much does that get used? Yea . . . I know. If this tool is not cross server, it will simply NOT WORK. People will just fall back to level chat as usual. A Dungeon Finder *NEEDS* to offer functionality above and beyond what we already have, and this rollout as it currently stands FALLS WELL SHORT.I understand the desire to offer something the players want. We want it. SOE wants it. However, sending it out short on functionality will do irreparable harm to it's reputation and acceptance.RELEASE THIS FEATURE WHEN IT IS TRULY READY.</blockquote>Respectfully, we disagree.There are more than enough people on each individual server to keep Dungeon Finder running with same server capabilities only.Plus, same-server dungeon finder has the merit of matching you up with people on your own server, so you can actually find those people again later if you want to regroup with them.If/when we do cross-server matchmaking, it will be optional only. Some players don't want to play with anonymous strangers that they will never see again. It will not be forced upon you.DF (and later, Mercenaries) are going to be huge boons for the small-group player that likes to explore and play content. And same-server Dungeon Finder will help those players hook up with people that they can group with later.It certainly won't be "a fail". <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I am curious what toons you are including in this group? Are you going by server population as a whole or are you adjusting for those of us who do not LFG for a variety of reasons? Not everybody is going to use this tool, spiffy as it is. Most of the times people can't find a group is because there are notmany people who do LFG and so they are not an option to those lookiing for people to group with.I thought that this was a good idea but since the problem is that people cannot find groups or people to fill their existing group I don't see how you are going to make things any different without allowing for cross-server grouping.I hope for everyone's sake that it does improve things for those who would use it, but I think you are being short-sighted SJ and not understanding the dynamics of different types of gameplay.

Amanathia

09-21-2011, 07:42 PM

<cite>Dethdlr@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am sure this will get lost, but here goes anyway so I can come back later and say "I told you so".If this feature launches, and is not cross server, it will fail miserably. Honestly, they should simply NOT LAUNCH this feature until cross server is part of the equation.We already have a LFG tool that works on our home server. How much does that get used? Yea . . . I know. If this tool is not cross server, it will simply NOT WORK. People will just fall back to level chat as usual. A Dungeon Finder *NEEDS* to offer functionality above and beyond what we already have, and this rollout as it currently stands FALLS WELL SHORT.I understand the desire to offer something the players want. We want it. SOE wants it. However, sending it out short on functionality will do irreparable harm to it's reputation and acceptance.RELEASE THIS FEATURE WHEN IT IS TRULY READY.</blockquote>I've said it before, and I'll say it again. There is one important thing that the dungeon finder does that the LFG tool and chat channels don't do: FORM GROUPS. There are plenty of people on each server to form groups. There are NOT plenty of people who are willing to actually FORM THEM.That's why you constantly see people in chat channels LFG. It's sad really when in the course of five minutes you see a tank, healer, dirge, mezzer, and DPS all LFG but nobody bothering to actually form the group.</blockquote>You pretty much nailed it. This will get used a ton, imho. Which is good. cross server is good too as long as they make it optional, which they've said they will. This is a good improvement as long as it works and doesn't do things like make a gruop with 3 tanks. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Brook

09-21-2011, 07:52 PM

It will get used at first because its something new, after that it will be just like the arenas, functional, but used by 1 out of maybe 1000.If it isn't cross server how is it an improvement of what we already have?

Silzin

09-21-2011, 11:55 PM

One thing I noticed. First i was running my Copied Raid geared monk and my wife was running a buffed warden. when she was group leader it didnt let her Que for the zone that requiered 100+ CM... as it should have. But then i was group leader having 215CM it let us Que for any of the dungens.Also most of the groups i got into had more then 1 of the same class. there are a lot of classes that its not a problem, but some classes its just about dead weight. like 3 tanks... not to bin of a problem, but 2 wardens... not useful.

Eveningsong

09-22-2011, 12:02 AM

Ok some results from Test Copy tonight:solo random dungeon (mystic) - Vasty Deep: the Conservatory, group resulted in mystic (me), troubadour, troubadour, monk, monk. Wizard and then guardian declined group.group of 3 (pally, mystic, illusionist) - Demitrik's Bastion; when initially queued, the group got a message that one member of the group did not meet requirements. We were all copied level 90 toons, I'm not sure what requirements it would be looking at. The group resulted in pally, mystic, warden, coercer, wizard. Illusionist was dropped from the group for some reason (possibly the unmet requirements, whatever they were?). Tried to fill the spot, but we kept getting the message "Unable to find any reinforcements at this time", yet there were solo people in channel not getting a group, including the Illy who had swapped to her Necro to see if that would let her join. Seems to me a group with a tank, 2 healers, a chanter and dps would be able to take any class. Gave up and disbanded to try again.group of 3 (pally, mystic, necro) - several solo people queued, but after 24 minutes we still hadn't gotten anyone added to the group. Eventually gave up.solo random dungeon (warden) - over 15 minutes queued, lots of groups looking for more and no invites. Eventually Iceshard Keep resulted in warden, necro x 2, pally, ranger, coercer.solo random dungeon (templar) - several minutes queued with groups looking and no invites. Eventually made it into a Silent City: The Delving group with templar, warden, guardian, wizard, swashbuckler, ranger.I also noticed that estimated waiting time doesn't seem to be updating, after waiting over 20 minutes in our group of 3 our estimated time was still listed as 5 minutes. This might be related to there being lots of people in queue but for whatever reason not getting groups, though.

Eveningsong

09-22-2011, 12:03 AM

<cite>Silzin@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>One thing I noticed. First i was running my Copied Raid geared monk and my wife was running a buffed warden. when she was group leader it didnt let her Que for the zone that requiered 100+ CM... as it should have. But then i was group leader having 215CM it let us Que for any of the dungens.Also most of the groups i got into had more then 1 of the same class. there are a lot of classes that its not a problem, but some classes its just about dead weight. like 3 tanks... not to bin of a problem, but 2 wardens... not useful.</blockquote>Wasn't crit mit requirement removed from most (if not all) of the group zones recently?

Daggster

09-22-2011, 03:02 AM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am sure this will get lost, but here goes anyway so I can come back later and say "I told you so".If this feature launches, and is not cross server, it will fail miserably. Honestly, they should simply NOT LAUNCH this feature until cross server is part of the equation.We already have a LFG tool that works on our home server. How much does that get used? Yea . . . I know. If this tool is not cross server, it will simply NOT WORK. People will just fall back to level chat as usual. A Dungeon Finder *NEEDS* to offer functionality above and beyond what we already have, and this rollout as it currently stands FALLS WELL SHORT.I understand the desire to offer something the players want. We want it. SOE wants it. However, sending it out short on functionality will do irreparable harm to it's reputation and acceptance.RELEASE THIS FEATURE WHEN IT IS TRULY READY.</blockquote>Well, (assuming I've understood correctly) it has a feature that level chat doesn't have, zooming you into the zone instantly when the group is ready. If it would also offer daily shard/mark etc quest on entrance, it would make it alot better than level chat even without being cross-server. Compliance with ignore system and possibility to add a bit of own gear restrictions would be nice too.Own gear restrictions because full raid-geared toon will basically rip aggro from pq geared low AA tank by doing just about anything, which might end up grouping together if the said raid-geared person wanted to do rime dominance for shards for instance (no CM required and low CC requirement) and guildies were busy/not interested. Hell, I'm not even close to being actually raid-geared (ry'gorr shard stuff, some x2 and the rest is KD drops at the highest) and I rip aggro after waiting for mob to be half dead and then casting a few spells, if the tank is lowly enough geared even though still being in good enough gear for the zone. That's ofc my own fault since I want shards and do the "easy" DoV zones to get them.Anyway, despite the side-track, I think this tool has potential to be very useful and provide features that beat level chat group building 100-0, even without cross-server functionality. I agree though, that it should be somewhat polished and "finished" (at least by SOE standards) before putting it on live.Edit: ofc, if you end up with bardles/chanterles groups that have 2 healers and 3 tanks or some such with DF, it won't be getting much of use...

Eugam

09-22-2011, 03:20 AM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>It certainly won't be "a fail". <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Time will tell. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />I tend to agree with Banditman. In reality the most used tool was the old lfg flag and list. It worked as addition to LFM/LFG messages in level chat. I dont think people will stop to use chat, they never stoped using it and it wasnt the fault of the LFG window design. We have been right back then and i fear we will be right again.I tend to think even cross-server will fail. The only real solution is server jumping. Similar to jumping from Kelethin 1 to 2. A virtual single server setup. Thats imho the only thing worth to waste manhours on.

Bratface

09-22-2011, 03:34 AM

<cite>Eveningsong wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Silzin@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>One thing I noticed. First i was running my Copied Raid geared monk and my wife was running a buffed warden. when she was group leader it didnt let her Que for the zone that requiered 100+ CM... as it should have. But then i was group leader having 215CM it let us Que for any of the dungens.Also most of the groups i got into had more then 1 of the same class. there are a lot of classes that its not a problem, but some classes its just about dead weight. like 3 tanks... not to bin of a problem, but 2 wardens... not useful.</blockquote>Wasn't crit mit requirement removed from most (if not all) of the group zones recently?</blockquote>This is what i thought too, if it wasn't removed from heroic zones it should be.Anyway, about tonights testing.The reinforce button did not work, it always gave the same message "there are no reinforcements available" or close to that, but there were many people in queue that were suitable classes just waiting to join a group, we even all tried selecting only a certain dungeon in order to maybe get grouped but it never worked for me.When we started there were three of us grouped and queued up for any dungeon, but I was booted from group saying I did not meet the requirements, the zone was The Hole:Outer Vault and it has no requirements for critmit or anything else, I had no timer or lockout. I would like to know what requirements I did not meet and I strongly encourage you to add this information to the system so that people will not be wondering about what requirement they did not meet.I also seem to recall that a member was being shown that another member had requested to boot them and it listed a reason, but the person that tried to boot them did not give a reason.Needs polish for sure, right now it's pretty rough.

Besual

09-22-2011, 04:27 AM

The DF will have (at best) limited success. Cross-server or not. The reason? Quite simple: Most players have multiple toons by now. A group could looking for a support class while I'm on my defiler. With the chat channels I just do a "/tell XYZ Could switch to my coercer. Do you have a spot?" With the DF only the toon I'm currently online would be available for grouping. Now guess which way people will be using?

Nijia

09-22-2011, 07:25 AM

<blockquote><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>We already have a LFG tool that works on our home server. How much does that get used? Yea . . . I know. (...)</blockquote></blockquote>The problem with the LFG tool is it was built on the assumption that it is O.K. to send invites directly to people you don't know.In practice, you find that people need a connection, and that usually means at least grouping once, so the name is familiar.So from the get go, the LFG tool was meant to fail, because it does not match how people connect.Even as I keep a list of people I have grouped with I find from time to time when I send a polite invite (eg. "would you like to join a group in XYZ?") that they come up with some B.S. excuse (like "I have back pain, should probably log off"), instead of being honest and with confidence simply saying "thanks, i m kinda busy right now"). So it's annoying both for the LFM, and the potential LFG. Very rarely someone replied, "i'm busy, but I appreciate you asking me" (the ideal answer).So fail, fail, and more fail for a tool that is essentially a search box.Now let's look at the usability of this thing, in Steve Jobs fashion:1) Two tabs, both looking almost 100% identical "Looking for xxxxx (xxx)" > confusion, slows down decision This is made worse by the fact that both windows content look almost identical, too.2) Immediately presented with too many choices, including EIGHT freaking checkboxes3) Having to type in level ranges instead of using a slider > SLOW and CUMBERSOME to use4) Click "Start Looking" and it goes green saying "You are currently looking yadayada". From there on nothing moves, nothing updates, you have no idea if it's working, if anyone elseis actually queuing somewhere. > ZERO Feedback5) TOO MANY freaking choices.

Nijia

09-22-2011, 07:34 AM

You know what would be awesome?I would urge the developers to not throw away the LFG tool, but instead re-use it as a better friends list, to ahelp find people who are online, whom are also on your friends list.In other words, have an alternative "friends" list that can be kept within, and for the purpose of, the LFG tool.Instead of going "LFG" you'd go "available" for anyeone who's got you on their list.Anyone who opens that LFG tool would see your message eg. "need help with quesrt soandso".Basically, allow me to use the friends list as a real friends list, and make use of the LFG tool for connecting with a list of people you've grouped with in the past.I would remove all the role(s) checkboxes, and the list box display just the names and their message.Essentially re-use the LFG Tool as a "friend connect" box where you can state if you need help with something or just say if you're generally available.

Pixiewrath

09-22-2011, 08:36 AM

Sorry, Smoke, but some servers do have too few people in it to use it. The Bazaar server is only active a few hours each day and during those it's still a pretty low population.I don't care if I get to group with strangers or not as long asI can acually manage to group. Isn't that the entire point of the dungeon finder? To find groups?It won't work well on any server aside from maybe AB if it's not made into a cross-server tool. At least make the option, cross server works for battlegrounds.Also think it's weird to not allow it to find zones based on mentoring. That could also be optional because it is really fun to mentor old zones, especially old raid zones with newer gear, now when you actually have a chance to complete them.So yeah, add mentoring feature and cross-server feature. It's crucial...

Hateeternal

09-22-2011, 09:24 AM

<cite>Pixiewrath@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sorry, Smoke, but some servers do have too few people in it to use it. The Bazaar server is only active a few hours each day and during those it's still a pretty low population.I don't care if I get to group with strangers or not as long asI can acually manage to group. Isn't that the entire point of the dungeon finder? To find groups?It won't work well on any server aside from maybe AB if it's not made into a cross-server tool. At least make the option, cross server works for battlegrounds.Also think it's weird to not allow it to find zones based on mentoring. That could also be optional because it is really fun to mentor old zones, especially old raid zones with newer gear, now when you actually have a chance to complete them.So yeah, add mentoring feature and cross-server feature. It's crucial...</blockquote>^ this x1000!The DF will be useless on most of the servers due to population. With cross-server this would even bring back people who quit, because now they can easily and quickly do a run through an instance and dont get bored anymore, sitting for hours in their guildhalls, looking for a group and eventually log out and quit due to boredom and an empty server.By the way I don't think any of the problems with cross-server that were mentioned here are valid. Why in hell would you want to transfer or "hop" to a different server for grouping? The dungeon itself just has to be in a neutral environment, meaning an exclusive server. By zoning into the dungeon you are being transferred and by zoning out you are being zoned back to your home server. Same as with the Battlegrounds.

Silzin

09-22-2011, 09:36 AM

SmokeJumper

09-22-2011, 03:37 PM

<cite>Nijia@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote>You know what would be awesome?I would urge the developers to not throw away the LFG tool, but instead re-use it as a better friends list, to ahelp find people who are online, whom are also on your friends list.In other words, have an alternative "friends" list that can be kept within, and for the purpose of, the LFG tool.Instead of going "LFG" you'd go "available" for anyeone who's got you on their list.Anyone who opens that LFG tool would see your message eg. "need help with quesrt soandso".Basically, allow me to use the friends list as a real friends list, and make use of the LFG tool for connecting with a list of people you've grouped with in the past.I would remove all the role(s) checkboxes, and the list box display just the names and their message.Essentially re-use the LFG Tool as a "friend connect" box where you can state if you need help with something or just say if you're generally available.</blockquote>We're going to keep the LFG tool for folks forming overland and/or non-DF-dungeon groups. We agree that it needs an overhaul. No idea when we'll get to that though, to be honest. Your ideas here are something to consider. Thanks!

Dayeyes

09-22-2011, 03:41 PM

Took part in the testcopy test last night. A few things of note:Issues:-When it finds you a group, and you hit ok it took you right to the zone. The problem I have with this is that it seemed to take you to the zone even if the other people of the dungeon finder group hit no. This could possibly leave someone alone in a dungeon, because everyone else that was suppose to part of that group hit no(this would also mean that they aren't a group, and wouldn't be able to reinforce to find missing people). The fact that it doesn't wait for everyone part of the dungeon finder group to be ready is a bit worrying. (It could of just been that I was always the last one to hit yes)Bugs:-I was in group voice, entered a dungeon finder group, and it crashed voice. Had to click it off, and back on (in the voice options) to get it to work.-It seems that if you queue as a small group, enter a dungeon finder group, then everyone but your orginal group leaves. It treats your group as a non-dungeon finder group(no option to reinforce to make up for missing spots, and didn't let us to return to the dungeon once we left it) This happened to our two-person group.

SmokeJumper

09-22-2011, 03:55 PM

<cite>Dayeyes wrote:</cite><blockquote>Took part in the testcopy test last night. A few things of note:Issues:-When it finds you a group, and you hit ok it took you right to the zone. The problem I have with this is that it seemed to take you to the zone even if the other people of the dungeon finder group hit no. This could possibly leave someone alone in a dungeon, because everyone else that was suppose to part of that group hit no(this would also mean that they aren't a group, and wouldn't be able to reinforce to find missing people). The fact that it doesn't wait for everyone part of the dungeon finder group to be ready is a bit worrying. (It could of just been that I was always the last one to hit yes)Bugs:-I was in group voice, entered a dungeon finder group, and it crashed voice. Had to click it off, and back on (in the voice options) to get it to work.-It seems that if you queue as a small group, enter a dungeon finder group, then everyone but your orginal group leaves. It treats your group as a non-dungeon finder group(no option to reinforce to make up for missing spots, and didn't let us to return to the dungeon once we left it) This happened to our two-person group. </blockquote>Responding to the issue you describe: The "Reinforce" button should offset that issue, shouldn't it? If everyone bailed, then you could just hit Reinforce and quickly fill it up again. (I honestly have no idea why 5 of 6 players would bail after queuing, but I do believe it *will* happen eventually just through sheer probability.)Regarding your bugs: Thanks! These are listed now internally to investigate.

Miapa

09-22-2011, 04:26 PM

Does the Dungeon Finder take into account that some instances are much better off with two healers and some only need one?

Anestacia

09-22-2011, 07:00 PM

I am a big supporter of the dungeon finder. It's a great idea and will positively impact the game but will need to be tweaked much further than it is in its current state. Most have been mentioned but worth restating:1) Cross server! Giving an option to choose not to participate is great but I think you would find most people that would use the tool anyway dont object to grouping with players from other servers anyway. It shortens que times down much more thus less downtime to get bored and log out.The argument that some people will act badly b/c they will never see them again is weak imo. It can happen on your home server just as easily and its not like this game has a million players; when i was doing BGs I would be teamed up with the same people all the time. Plus, meeting more people is a GOOD thing and with cross server communication then you can keep in contact with them if you wish.2) The reward for queing randomly. It has to be something besides exp; it just has to be. EXP comes too fast as it is and is NOT an incentive for MOST people, at least in the SF/DoV zones. The lower tiers is fine as they will always need the bonus. I understand the risk in giving shards 100% of the time as the reward but what about a bag with random rewards? Some options might be a Primal Velium Shard, house items, SC, a mount, platinum. Just something to make me want to que randomly instead of just for the specific daily double or whatever.3) The random zone "pool". SF and DoV need to be seperated when queing randomly. I see what your doing by making use of those zones again but it simply isn't going to go over well. Besides nostalgia, there is no reason whatsoever to do SF zones. No one needs marks nor the gear it drops if you are in DoV content. The Set up with the pictures of the zones zones looks great btw.

SmokeJumper

09-22-2011, 07:23 PM

<cite>Anestacia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am a big supporter of the dungeon finder. It's a great idea and will positively impact the game but will need to be tweaked much further than it is in its current state. Most have been mentioned but worth restating:1) Cross server! Giving an option to choose not to participate is great but I think you would find most people that would use the tool anyway dont object to grouping with players from other servers anyway. It shortens que times down much more thus less downtime to get bored and log out.The argument that some people will act badly b/c they will never see them again is weak imo. It can happen on your home server just as easily and its not like this game has a million players; when i was doing BGs I would be teamed up with the same people all the time. Plus, meeting more people is a GOOD thing and with cross server communication then you can keep in contact with them if you wish.2) The reward for queing randomly. It has to be something besides exp; it just has to be. EXP comes too fast as it is and is NOT an incentive for MOST people, at least in the SF/DoV zones. The lower tiers is fine as they will always need the bonus. I understand the risk in giving shards 100% of the time as the reward but what about a bag with random rewards? Some options might be a Primal Velium Shard, house items, SC, a mount, platinum. Just something to make me want to que randomly instead of just for the specific daily double or whatever.3) The random zone "pool". SF and DoV need to be seperated when queing randomly. I see what your doing by making use of those zones again but it simply isn't going to go over well. Besides nostalgia, there is no reason whatsoever to do SF zones. No one needs marks nor the gear it drops if you are in DoV content. The Set up with the pictures of the zones zones looks great btw.</blockquote>1) Queue times on Test are certainly not indicative of queue times on Live. When we test in-house, we have 20-40 people playing, all at level 90. We rarely wait more than a minute or two for a group when so doing. We'll play it by ear when it goes Live and decide, based on metrics we accumulate, whether the populations are good enough to make the feature work or not. Regardless, "cross-server" is on the plate for later, but it really shouldn't be required at launch of feature.2) We can discuss beefing up the rewards *if* this doesn't seem to be working once we get a larger population involved. There are two major reasons to choose "Random Dungeon". a) You get more XP. b) You get a group faster. If people don't mind having a longer queue, then choosing non-random dungeons should be just fine. But if you want a group NOW, then you should choose random. That's a feature that's not tied to XP at all and has merit whether we have the XP bonus or not. The XP bonus is only an attract mode to get folks to try Random first, before they end up waiting a long time (for example) because they only selected one obscure dungeon to queue for.3) You're not the first person to make this suggestion. We're discussing it internally on Monday. (That's when the formal meeting is scheduled to go over feedback for DF. We've been having ad hoc discussions as we see suggestions, but that's the formal meeting.)

Vinyard

09-22-2011, 08:10 PM

Hey SJ, here is a suggestionAt level 90, a 25% exp bonus is pretty much pointless. In....other games....doing a max level random dungeon offers a type of currency that is valuable at max level. Why not offer a primal velium shard for completing a random dungeon at 90? This will definately offer a higher incentive to use this, and eveyone will win in the end.

LardLord

09-22-2011, 08:19 PM

I'd like to see a Temple of Rallos Zek Hard Mode option that requires the appropriate level of crit mit. EDIT: Also, I think there should be a critical chance requirement as well as crit mit. It covers different slots of gear than crit mit.

Bremer

09-22-2011, 08:32 PM

<cite>Vinyard@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>In....other games....doing a max level random dungeon offers a type of currency that is valuable at max level. Why not offer a primal velium shard for completing a random dungeon at 90? This will definately offer a higher incentive to use this, and eveyone will win in the end.</blockquote>Good idea. Shards may not be so great, but for example a chance to roll on a rare loot table like in PQs would be interesting, with a chance to get special adornments or armor patterns or something like that.

LardLord

09-22-2011, 08:51 PM

A lot of zones aren't showing up, currently. In addition to Elements of War at 90, I'm not seeing Vaults of El'arad, Blackscale Sepulcher, or 2/3rds of the TSO zones I should be able to do at 65. Intended?

Eveningsong

09-22-2011, 09:57 PM

In the Tower of Frozen Shadows zone, there is a mob that gives shard quests inside the zone. I'd like to see this in the other zones as well so that people who are accepting random dungeons have a chance to get the quest for the zone. That, or offer the daily shard quest automatically when you zone in.

Nijia

09-23-2011, 09:54 AM

<blockquote><cite>Anestacia wrote:</cite><blockquote>(...)3) The random zone "pool". SF and DoV need to be seperated when queing randomly. I see what your doing by making use of those zones again but it simply isn't going to go over well. Besides nostalgia, there is no reason whatsoever to do SF zones. No one needs marks nor the gear it drops if you are in DoV content. The Set up with the pictures of the zones zones looks great btw.</blockquote></blockquote>I am looking forward myself to do all the older content I have not seen yet, and complete achievements for each expansion.With the item revamp the loot isn't bad, and many older dungeons, especially TSO Missions can be fun to do and more challenging than your average contested heroic dungeon.<div>So although I disagree on nostalgia being the sole reason to run older content, I does sound like a very good idea to be able to queue for random dungeons on a continent/expansion basis.</div>

Ellenroh_001

09-23-2011, 11:40 AM

A friend and I participated in the test on Wednesday, and already provided the comments below to /feedback. Just adding them here just in case:<ol><li>Queued for Random was very quick, but we had an odd set up on the first (2 healers, 2 wizards, 1 dirge, 1 coercer, no tank)</li><li>Kick - asking to kick worked fine. We were in OV, and I was kicked. It sent me back to my original zone, but when my friend simply dropped herself from the same group she clicked out of the zone and was in SF. Not sure if that was intended.</li><li>Non - Random: That was strange. We queued up for Ascent, after waiting 12 minutes we unqueued then re-queued for Random. In less than a minute we were paired with 4 more and we went to...... Ascent! Was that a coincidence or intended? If intended while nice, I can see room for abuse.</li></ol>One item I forgot to feedback/bug: If you simply uncheck "random" you still will queue up for "random". You have to Highlight AND Uncheck. I think this should be either/or.Questions:<ol><li>What determines who is leader? We always queued up as a group of 2, but never was assigned as "leader" Is it the group that brings the most or is it random choosing?</li><li>What happens if someone goes link dead? We could not get the reinforcement feature to work, so not sure if it is supposed to automatically reassign someone or if we have to physically push a button. I think it is the latter, but couldn't get an answer the other night.</li></ol>Overall I really like the Dungeon Finder.

Kincaid

09-23-2011, 08:20 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anestacia wrote:</cite><blockquote>3) The random zone "pool". SF and DoV need to be seperated when queing randomly. I see what your doing by making use of those zones again but it simply isn't going to go over well. Besides nostalgia, there is no reason whatsoever to do SF zones. No one needs marks nor the gear it drops if you are in DoV content. The Set up with the pictures of the zones zones looks great btw.</blockquote>3) You're not the first person to make this suggestion. We're discussing it internally on Monday. (That's when the formal meeting is scheduled to go over feedback for DF. We've been having ad hoc discussions as we see suggestions, but that's the formal meeting.)</blockquote>Have Primal Velium Shards drop in SF zones IF you went there using the dungeon finder tool? Go into Library or Spirits Resonance and so on without using the DF tool and get old SF marks as per normal.

Kincaid

09-23-2011, 08:24 PM

Also could add in new items and increase chance of rare names if you used Dungeon Finder to make it a more desirable way of finding groups.

Kincaid

09-23-2011, 08:25 PM

oh... and +1 to the cross server thingy. Battlegrounds was a near enough deserted feature here on Splitpaw until cross-server BG's arrived.

Seashell

09-24-2011, 05:05 PM

I haven't gotten a chance to test it out and I noticed some people said it should follow the ignore functionality and not group you up with people you dislike to the point of not even seeing what they say.What happens to the people who don't use ignore because you don't want to miss whatever drama they are causing in channels but absolutely refuse to ever group with them ever? There should be the ignore and then a second option of Do Not Group Me List so I can make sure I don't get grouped with the server loot stealer. I'd rather know what trouble he's gotten himself into but I don't really want to somehow get put in a group with him. I wouldn't want to just disband like a drama queen even though the 5 other people are nice non-stealing people.

asaron

09-24-2011, 09:52 PM

I can see this being a nice tool but yet another way to avoid open land pvp on nagafen is bad the instant zone in should be disabled on pvp. we dont need yet another instant travel device .

Eveningsong

09-24-2011, 11:26 PM

SmokeJumper

09-25-2011, 11:37 AM

Hi, folks,Thanks for hanging in there with the low population on Test to try and give this feature a whirl. It's very greatly appreciated and your feedback is great.The Known (and Fixed!) issues have been updated on the original feature announcement post. That "fixed" list will be current as of this Tuesday's update on Test. Please check out the Known Issues list (and the fixed list) at <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=507104" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=507104</a> .

rocthorne999

09-25-2011, 11:55 AM

any thoughts onto when this will go live?

Soresha

09-25-2011, 01:47 PM

<cite>Seashell@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>I haven't gotten a chance to test it out and I noticed some people said it should follow the ignore functionality and not group you up with people you dislike to the point of not even seeing what they say.What happens to the people who don't use ignore because you don't want to miss whatever drama they are causing in channels but absolutely refuse to ever group with them ever? There should be the ignore and then a second option of Do Not Group Me List so I can make sure I don't get grouped with the server loot stealer. I'd rather know what trouble he's gotten himself into but I don't really want to somehow get put in a group with him. I wouldn't want to just disband like a drama queen even though the 5 other people are nice non-stealing people.</blockquote>I'm going to second this idea. Though I suspect it's beyond the scope of development at this point, a "do not group with via DF" list of names would be a subtle and drama-free way of avoiding sticky situations created by the "blind date" nature of DF grouping.I bet many people can think of at least one individual who, whilst they might tolerate them in chat channels, might even like them, on other hand they find them too irritating to group with, or maybe their playstyle just clashes too badly. Someone you think "s/he's ok, but I'm not going to group with them again".A simpler alternative would be to give the information as a preview of what you'd be agreeing to in the window that pops up. List the names, classes and levels of the proposed group. Afterall trying to hide the information doesn't really achieve anything, if someone really doesn't like an individual player or the resulting group setup, they can just /disband immediately and queue again.Neither of these replaces the need to respect /ignore though, a simple check of the other 5 characters against each character's ignore list should definitely be added.

Soresha

09-25-2011, 02:04 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi, folks,Thanks for hanging in there with the low population on Test to try and give this feature a whirl. It's very greatly appreciated and your feedback is great.The Known (and Fixed!) issues have been updated on the original feature announcement post. That "fixed" list will be current as of this Tuesday's update on Test. Please check out the Known Issues list (and the fixed list) at <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=507104" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=507104</a> .</blockquote>"EX-KNOWN ISSUES" - love the term. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />SJ, we've been asking for more details about what is, and isn't, considered an acceptable group by the system. Please can we get some more info because no one likes banging their head against a brick wall for an hour whilst DF refuses to play ball.The first time we tried to test DF on Test it stubbornly refused to do anything when we thought we had at least 6 known people queued for random that we thought would be ok (if not ideal) for a group. The original post where I detailed this is here: <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=507137#5633377" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...=507137#5633377</a>I know you said it works instantly for you inhouse with 20-40 level 90s queued, but that's testing under ideal conditions. Conditions on Test may be harsh but perhaps not totally unrealistic. Take a low population Live server, off-peak hours, and 6 low level characters queuing to do a specific, not-very-popular dungeon, and they may well hit the same problems we did.

Alenna

09-25-2011, 03:49 PM

<cite>rocthorne999 wrote:</cite><blockquote>any thoughts onto when this will go live?</blockquote>Hopefully only when it is working and 95% of the bugs are fixed unlike GU61

Soresha

09-27-2011, 08:17 PM

DF Bugs! After Tuesday's Patch1) Ported into Vasty Deep: Conservatory in DF group. disbanded. Open DF window and no options to queue, only Return button greyed out. Zoning (recall to guild hall) fixed it. Although I still see the Return button greyed out I do have the Queue button back now.2) After leaving Conservatory group and zoning out, I re-queued. It immediately offers me that group again (to reinforce it). I untick the Conservatory, all the others are still ticked. I queue again and STILL get offered that group and zone. This happened a dozen times, I queue and unqueue, tick and untick the box, but when I queue I keep getting offered that group. I can't get into any other group/zone via DF. Then at some point it fixed itself, possibly from zoning out of from repeated messing with the DF window, or because that group changed perhaps.3) The Reinforce button in group window now toggles to say "Reinforcing..." (which is nice, thank you). But the button on the DF window hasn't been changed to match, that one doesn't toggle and is still spammable.4) Checkbox click area is still not lined up with the box.5) The UI colours bug (not toggling green/white) when switching gear to meet/fail crit mit requirements is still not fixed.6) The chat messages from DF are... odd. As group leader, queuing a group or looking for reinforcements, you get some messages in group chat and some as status text (that's the chat category). E.g. when DF forms up a group, I get "X has joined the group" in group chat, but I get "X has declined your invitiation" as status text. So do the other people in group see the message about who declined?

Zoltaroth

09-27-2011, 09:22 PM

Just a heads up I have configured Test to use groups of 3 for now so that we can get some groups made.

Maergoth

09-27-2011, 10:12 PM

I'll run zones with you Zolt

Alenna

09-27-2011, 11:02 PM

<cite>Maergoth@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'll run zones with you Zolt</blockquote>I'd love to try some friend of mine and I are on and trying to que

Whilhelmina

09-28-2011, 10:23 AM

Would it be possible to add some infos about the actual number of players queuing?

SmokeJumper

09-28-2011, 02:00 PM

<cite>Whilhelmina@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>Would it be possible to add some infos about the actual number of players queuing?</blockquote>This is on our wish list and we want to add something like this.Most times of the day, this won't be particularly useful because there will always be enough players. But in the wee hours of the morning, this would be quite useful. (And on Test, right now. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Whilhelmina

09-28-2011, 02:19 PM

Thanks a lot. It's something extremely painfull for battlegrounds on Storms and I wouldn't want to have the same problem with DF. Could it be possible to add it to BG if you add it for DF btw?

Lothlo

09-28-2011, 02:58 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Whilhelmina@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>Would it be possible to add some infos about the actual number of players queuing?</blockquote>This is on our wish list and we want to add something like this.Most times of the day, this won't be particularly useful because there will always be enough players. But in the wee hours of the morning, this would be quite useful. (And on Test, right now. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>The wee hours of your morning or the prime time of your international customers? Your international customers might enjoy this feature more than your domestic ones. I'm over in Japan and I try to time my play time with my guild mates, but having a 9 to 13 hour time difference makes this hard at the best of times, having the dungeon cue showing how many people are waiting would be most beneficial during the times that I know I won't find many guild mates on. So for your international customers this would be beneficial.

SmokeJumper

09-28-2011, 03:03 PM

<cite>Lothlo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Whilhelmina@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote>Would it be possible to add some infos about the actual number of players queuing?</blockquote>This is on our wish list and we want to add something like this.Most times of the day, this won't be particularly useful because there will always be enough players. But in the wee hours of the morning, this would be quite useful. (And on Test, right now. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>The wee hours of your morning or the prime time of your international customers? Your international customers might enjoy this feature more than your domestic ones. I'm over in Japan and I try to time my play time with my guild mates, but having a 9 to 13 hour time difference makes this hard at the best of times, having the dungeon cue showing how many people are waiting would be most beneficial during the times that I know I won't find many guild mates on. So for your international customers this would be beneficial.</blockquote>Absolutely correct, Lothlo. Your prime time is in our "wee hours". <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

SmokeJumper

09-28-2011, 03:03 PM

The "Known Issues" list has been updated on my announcement.<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=507104�" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...04�</a>

Alenna

09-28-2011, 05:40 PM

is this just on Test or are you doing TEst copy also I have a few very low toons on test but have copied various levels of toons to test it.

LardLord

09-29-2011, 05:14 PM

I can't stress enough that the dungeon finder needs to set groups up for success. Every zone has gear requirements, even if they no longer require critical mitigation. The days where gear only mattered for your tank are long gone. Gear makes an enormous difference in EQ2 now, and all of the content is designed around it. If the DF forms groups that are not able to succeed, people will stop using it.

SmokeJumper

09-30-2011, 06:42 PM

All known issues are resolved in DF. We're going to update the Test server later this afternoon so that you can see it over the weekend.Please holler if you see issues!

Soresha

10-01-2011, 08:51 AM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>All known issues are resolved in DF. We're going to update the Test server later this afternoon so that you can see it over the weekend.Please holler if you see issues!</blockquote>Brave words. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />May I suggest another list of "player's issues we're not going to implement solutions for in the initial release / or ever" - like respecting people on /ignore, since that doesn't appear on your list of fixes. Let people know where you stand on these other fixes that have been asked for.Also I don't see a fix listed for the UI problem with the colour of queued dungeons despite /bugging it and reporting it here a couple times. When switching gear above/below the crit mit threshold the dungeons queue/unqueue but they weren't displayed in the correct colours. Unfortunately I can't now retest this to confirm - because you removed the 110% crit mit requirement from the Kael zones where I saw this happening. And I only have 119.something% crit mit (no kidding) so I can't queue for the 120% requirement zones.

Bremer

10-01-2011, 12:13 PM

<ul><li>The DF only checks crit mit, not crit chance. I can queue for Drunder with 30 crit chance. You must not allow people to queue for a dungeon unless they have at least 80-85 % crit chance (=100 % with properly skilled Bard) there</li><li>The window is completely overloaded with zones. Add more branches to the zone tree by splitting the zones in 3-4 packages that can be selected with a single click. Then people could choose, wether they want to go to a single zone or all zones or zones from the very easy package (SF) easy package (Tower, Hold of Rime, Caverns), the medium package (KD) or the hard Package (Drunder). For example someone who has only solo quest gear could see, what zones are best for his gear and then queue with one click for the easy package zones and someone with better gear checks the easy and medium package.</li><li>After every relog all zone selections are gone. So when you only want to go to a few specific zones you have to reselect them after every relog, not very user friendly</li><li>Often it takes several hours for a BG match to pop up (and then everyone is ungrouped...). Why are you not allowed to queue for both BG and DF to increase the chance of a BG match starting?</li></ul>

salty21db

10-01-2011, 03:58 PM

<cite>Soresha wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>All known issues are resolved in DF. We're going to update the Test server later this afternoon so that you can see it over the weekend.Please holler if you see issues!</blockquote>Brave words. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />May I suggest another list of "player's issues we're not going to implement solutions for in the initial release / or ever" - like respecting people on /ignore, since that doesn't appear on your list of fixes. Let people know where you stand on these other fixes that have been asked for.Also I don't see a fix listed for the UI problem with the colour of queued dungeons despite /bugging it and reporting it here a couple times. When switching gear above/below the crit mit threshold the dungeons queue/unqueue but they weren't displayed in the correct colours. Unfortunately I can't now retest this to confirm - because you removed the 110% crit mit requirement from the Kael zones where I saw this happening. And I only have 119.something% crit mit (no kidding) so I can't queue for the 120% requirement zones.</blockquote>How is that an "issue"? I mean like a bug.I believe they are just trying to get it out the door where it is useable at the moment and will most likely add the ignore feature/cross server/etc after it's been out a bit to see how it's doing and such. Why are things never good enough for MMO players? Gets old.Let them get the base work done, get it out the door and see how it handles, then add to it as time goes on. Why can't it be done that way?

salty21db

10-01-2011, 04:00 PM

Oh also I've been following this thread/progress a good bit and it seems as if the majority of the "need" to fix bugs are done. Do we have a projected release of this for the 4th or the 11th? I'm quite excited to give it a whirl and add feedback so it can be improved once released.

Nijia

10-01-2011, 04:31 PM

<cite>Bremer wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>The window is completely overloaded with zones. Add more branches to the zone tree by splitting the zones in 3-4 packages that can be selected with a single click. Then people could choose, wether they want to go to a single zone or all zones or zones from the very easy package (SF) easy package (Tower, Hold of Rime, Caverns), the medium package (KD) or the hard Package (Drunder). For example someone who has only solo quest gear could see, what zones are best for his gear and then queue with one click for the easy package zones and someone with better gear checks the easy and medium package.</li></ul></blockquote>I would have hoped this to be a standard feature from version 1.0.Logically, I suppose the goal of the random dungeon is to get the largest pool of available participants right?With that in mind, it seems like it would be better to have the possbility to select "packages" of zones, as this provides a middle point between picking single entries, and being completely random. In other words, wouldn't that be better to increase the available pool of players than having none?Personally I don't see myself using random dungeon all that much. I'd rather pick 4-5 preferred zones than go to a random one.<div></div>As for showing how many people are waiting, I don't know if it's necessary to know exactly how many players are queuing, but seeing the general activity would be nice. For example to see which dungeons have at least one person queuing for. At first I would have thought.. "won't this encourage players to stick to a few selections?" but I'm not sure that's the case. In fact if I saw at least one person started queuing for an unpopular/old zone I might think to myself "hmm.. I'd check that out.. or maybe I have quest I could complete there". Basically giving me some inspiration to run the less common zones. Wouldn't this actually help fill up groups faster for the less popular/old zones?There could be a negative side effect with people glue-ing together on a few popular choices. I don't think this would be a significant issue, and in any case you'd really have to give it a good test, because some of those things can only be guessed at best.

Skeez1e

10-02-2011, 03:30 AM

Is there a method to the madness of which tab is default? Bringing up the window via ALT Z some of my characters have the DF tab on top and some have the Persistant Instances. I'd like to suggest it default to last used tab or add another mapping option in Windows Keys.

Felshades

10-02-2011, 04:13 AM

<cite>Nijia@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bremer wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>The window is completely overloaded with zones. Add more branches to the zone tree by splitting the zones in 3-4 packages that can be selected with a single click. Then people could choose, wether they want to go to a single zone or all zones or zones from the very easy package (SF) easy package (Tower, Hold of Rime, Caverns), the medium package (KD) or the hard Package (Drunder). For example someone who has only solo quest gear could see, what zones are best for his gear and then queue with one click for the easy package zones and someone with better gear checks the easy and medium package.</li></ul></blockquote>I would have hoped this to be a standard feature from version 1.0.Logically, I suppose the goal of the random dungeon is to get the largest pool of available participants right?With that in mind, it seems like it would be better to have the possbility to select "packages" of zones, as this provides a middle point between picking single entries, and being completely random. In other words, wouldn't that be better to increase the available pool of players than having none?Personally I don't see myself using random dungeon all that much. I'd rather pick 4-5 preferred zones than go to a random one.<div></div>As for showing how many people are waiting, I don't know if it's necessary to know exactly how many players are queuing, but seeing the general activity would be nice. For example to see which dungeons have at least one person queuing for. At first I would have thought.. "won't this encourage players to stick to a few selections?" but I'm not sure that's the case. In fact if I saw at least one person started queuing for an unpopular/old zone I might think to myself "hmm.. I'd check that out.. or maybe I have quest I could complete there". Basically giving me some inspiration to run the less common zones. Wouldn't this actually help fill up groups faster for the less popular/old zones?There could be a negative side effect with people glue-ing together on a few popular choices. I don't think this would be a significant issue, and in any case you'd really have to give it a good test, because some of those things can only be guessed at best.</blockquote>In wow, it WAS a negative side effect.People would queue up for a particular instance and be unable to get groups forever because no one wanted to do that particular one. It'll only end up with them having to add incentives to do "random" dungeons... which ended up with(again in wow) people dropping group the instant they saw it was a zone they didn't like, then requeuing again, leaving the old group to wait for a new tank or healer(the two that usually would drop).

Nijia

10-02-2011, 12:35 PM

<cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote></blockquote>In wow, it WAS a negative side effect.People would queue up for a particular instance and be unable to get groups forever because no one wanted to do that particular one. It'll only end up with them having to add incentives to do "random" dungeons... which ended up with(again in wow) people dropping group the instant they saw it was a zone they didn't like, then requeuing again, leaving the old group to wait for a new tank or healer(the two that usually would drop).</blockquote>Well EQII 's player base is different, so you never know. Also it's not just the player base, but the game is different.I haven't played WoW. Are you saying that despite seeing that at least one person is queuing for a less popular dungeon, no one goes there, because they prefer to join whatever zone for which groups appear to fill up quickly?I'm doubtful that showing the activity makes much difference to solve that specific problem, because other than maybe newbies, players can already guess what zones are the most popular and most likely to fill up quickly. I mean for example queues for old expansion dungeons will always take more time to fill, there's nothing you can do about that.So with that in mind, my guess is that showing that there is *some* activity for any given zone (ie. at least 1 player queuing) would help for old zones, and wouldn't make much difference for the popular ones anyway.

SmokeJumper

10-03-2011, 07:26 PM

<cite>Nijia@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote></blockquote>In wow, it WAS a negative side effect.People would queue up for a particular instance and be unable to get groups forever because no one wanted to do that particular one. It'll only end up with them having to add incentives to do "random" dungeons... which ended up with(again in wow) people dropping group the instant they saw it was a zone they didn't like, then requeuing again, leaving the old group to wait for a new tank or healer(the two that usually would drop).</blockquote>Well EQII 's player base is different, so you never know. Also it's not just the player base, but the game is different.I haven't played WoW. Are you saying that despite seeing that at least one person is queuing for a less popular dungeon, no one goes there, because they prefer to join whatever zone for which groups appear to fill up quickly?I'm doubtful that showing the activity makes much difference to solve that specific problem, because other than maybe newbies, players can already guess what zones are the most popular and most likely to fill up quickly. I mean for example queues for old expansion dungeons will always take more time to fill, there's nothing you can do about that.So with that in mind, my guess is that showing that there is *some* activity for any given zone (ie. at least 1 player queuing) would help for old zones, and wouldn't make much difference for the popular ones anyway.</blockquote>We handle matchmaking differently than that. Imagine all dungeons as being in a big list. What we do is to check each dungeon in turn. We see if anyone is queued specifically for that dungeon. If so, try to fit them into a group first, and then add "random" players until we get a full match for that dungeon. Then we move to the next dungeon in the list and repeat. If no one is queued specifically for that dungeon, then we fill it all with folks from the Random queue. If there aren't any Random folks waiting, then we go to the next dungeon in the list and keep trying each one in turn until matches get made.So eventually, everyone gets checked. There shouldn't be "stranded" folks in this system (although queueing for specific dungeons will often result in longer waits than queueing for "Random"). The worst case should be that you might get passed over the first time around if there were an unusual number of tanks (for example) all queued for the same specific dungeon. (A group wouldn't be composed completely of tanks, so some would get left behind until the next check.)The bonus (+25% XP) is a "thank you" for queueing for Random so that we can shift you wherever needed, as described above.

Nakash

10-03-2011, 08:54 PM

I fear i will be told it is to early to ask this question.But i think it is right to ask it while DF is still in development."Will international servers that have language localized have any chance to be part of the server wide dungeon finder when it comes out ?"

Delethen

10-03-2011, 09:17 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote> There shouldn't be "stranded" folks in this system (although queueing for specific dungeons will often result in longer waits than queueing for "Random"). </blockquote>Presumably you aren't reusing the battlegrounds matchmaker code then, or people would end up zoning into the middle of a zone surrounded by non kos mobs on a regular basis.

Vellandra

10-04-2011, 01:31 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>We handle matchmaking differently than that. Imagine all dungeons as being in a big list. What we do is to check each dungeon in turn. We see if anyone is queued specifically for that dungeon. If so, try to fit them into a group first, and then add "random" players until we get a full match for that dungeon. Then we move to the next dungeon in the list and repeat. If no one is queued specifically for that dungeon, then we fill it all with folks from the Random queue. If there aren't any Random folks waiting, then we go to the next dungeon in the list and keep trying each one in turn until matches get made.So eventually, everyone gets checked. There shouldn't be "stranded" folks in this system (although queueing for specific dungeons will often result in longer waits than queueing for "Random"). The worst case should be that you might get passed over the first time around if there were an unusual number of tanks (for example) all queued for the same specific dungeon. (A group wouldn't be composed completely of tanks, so some would get left behind until the next check.)The bonus (+25% XP) is a "thank you" for queueing for Random so that we can shift you wherever needed, as described above.</blockquote>Does the order that you check zones change from day to day? Otherwise, you'll end up with a situation that the vast majority of people who select 'random' will end up going to the first zone on the checklist every time, leading to boredom very quickly.For example, say the order you check zones is Pools, then Ascent, then Fortress Spire. You have 20 people queuing, 3 of which have selected Spires only, 2 have selected Ascent only, and everyone else has selected 'random'.Assuming a reasonable class distribution, Pools is checked first, 2 groups (12 people) zone in. Then Ascent is checked, no full group available, so then Spires is checked, and the remaining 3 randoms are added to the Spires only people to make a group for that. The Pools people finish and zone out, and 9 of them select random again, while the other 3 log out. 6 of those 9 will end up back in Pools again because Pools is checked first.Is that right? Have I misunderstood? It would seem the only way to get any kind of variety is to either alternate the order in which zones are checked to create the randomness, or for users to stop using the 'random' button.

Shaolin Sam

10-06-2011, 02:16 PM

Ingame Dungeon Finder Tool is missing Cella and Research Halls for some reason. The 2 most annoying dungeons for the Epic Repercussions quest. Is that intentional?Also... Why do we still have lockouts on dungeons when we have the Dungeon Finder Tool out? You stop people from wanting to play if they get locked out of all the dungeons. All they'll do is do those dungeons then log off EQ2 and go play something else until they can reset. Look at World of Warcraft for tips on this. I think they way they did it (it's been awhile so I may be slightly misquoting but I'm sure someone will correct me if so). They still have the lockout timers like you guys but if you choose the "random dungeon) it'll take you into dungeons you're locked out of anyways. Reason being is that you're not allowed to CHOOSE that dungeon if you're locked out of it but you can go into it on the random queue.I'd consider changing that, personally. Also please add more dungeons (Cella / RH for example). IE -- If the game has an instanced dungeon, make sure it's in the Dungeon Finder. That really should have happened before it launched today though imho.

Valena

10-06-2011, 02:42 PM

<cite>Shaolin Sam wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'd consider changing that, personally. Also please add more dungeons (Cella / RH for example). IE -- If the game has an instanced dungeon, make sure it's in the Dungeon Finder. That really should have happened before it launched today though imho.</blockquote>You mean it's been half completed and pushed live??

Shaolin Sam

10-06-2011, 02:45 PM

I expected nothing less, really. But to miss Cella and RH I found particularly amusing due to the Dungeon Finder was going to hopefully make people doing the Epic Repercussions line of quests have less of a headache. Basically nothing has changed until they fix it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Sorta off-topic but... omg you should see the people whining about this new feature on my server. I don't get it personally. The dungeon finder is a fantastic idea even considering they screwed it up and didn't code the instance lockout timers correctly or add all the dungeons into it like they should have before launch.GOGO Quality Control Team! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Shaolin Sam

10-06-2011, 03:16 PM

Responses from the Red Shirts?

Shaolin Sam

10-06-2011, 03:22 PM

Weeeee... Almost an hour in the queue on the "random dungeon" setting and no estimated wait time. Guessing since you're queued for every dungeon possible using the random dungeon feature that just no one is using the tool?Bleh <img src="../images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />Queued on my healer, too. You'd think that'd be a "fast in" since the group has to have at least one healer. Although... I don't know what the settings on the thing are yet. Is it 1 tank / 1 healer / 4 dps? Or.... 1 tank / 2 healer / 3 dps? Or... 6 whatevers so could be theoretically 6 tanks or 6 healers? Anyone know the answer to that question that tested it on the Test Server (assuming it got tested of course).

Shaolin Sam

10-06-2011, 03:41 PM

1hr / 28 minutes in the random dungeon queue on my healer on Butcherblock with no estimated wait time. Is this usual wait times for other people on other servers?

Shaolin Sam

10-06-2011, 04:23 PM

Just about 2hrs in the queue now on my healer set to "random dungeon". Is the dungeon finder tool working? Or... just bad luck?Going to just drop out and goof off on quests for a bit now. Thing is frustrating <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Shaolin Sam

10-06-2011, 04:24 PM

Nijia

10-06-2011, 05:43 PM

It's been working well with my 87 Dirge on live. Been waiting less than 5 minutes and did a couple SF runs and Palace of Sabaron.A few suggestions/impressions:* My very first impression was: where are the DoV dungeons? I suppose that's fair if they are level 90 min, I would have thought at least one dungeon was available at 85+. If not, then I thought, it would be nice that the upcoming dungeons, say for level 5-10 above, would display in red in the list. I don't know what best way to do this to be honest, but there is a minor issue whereby you don't know what the requirements are till you have them. For example, I'm seeing Library of Erudin, but not the Royal Palace. I assume the latter one is flagged as 90+ but this doesn't necessarily match eq2 wikia. So how do players know what to expect, what level they need to be for a certain zone? Perhaps one approach ould be a checkbox to display hidden zones sort of like in collections, and show all upcoming zones in red with min.level, min CritChance, etc.* Connected to the last point, what if I'm level 90 and I don't meet requirements for a dungeon? Do these show up at all in the list? I hope they do and there is a message in red on the left side maybe that states those. Otherwise how will I know?* When you click Queue I think it would be a better feedback that the DF window closes, and a small window appears on the UI. This window could show "Queuing" with the queue time and perhaps some indicator of how the group is progressing. Clicking in this window could re-open the dungeon finder. As it is, you click Queue and.... nothing mich seems to happen. Just a tiny little bit of text that appears on one side. Is it possible for example to show 1/6, 2/6, ... when you see 4/6 or 5/6 (or stars, or a gauge..) then you know it's worth waiting for. This may alleviate changing one's mind? I have to admit often times I felt like unqueuing and queuing for other dungeons.* You get ported in the zone often times with a couple people missing. It appears those are people who cancel. Do they cancel in the time that people port to the zone or does the DF port people there before everyone's agreed to come?* Nitpicking: the left side text could be displayed on the window background instead of black, to clearly separate informative text from interactive text (checkboxes on the right).* Minor: Could the UI remember the default tab last open in that window?Thank you!It's looking promising so far.

Emperors

10-06-2011, 11:50 PM

1. You need to be able to queue for dungeons that are lower level than yourself. I wanted to mentor a friend and do some level 30 dungeons with them and it wouldn't let my level 90 queue up with them. This discourages lower level grouping.2. We need to be able to change the loot options. NBG all items is annoying.3. Daily shard quests and challenging (3 day shard quests) need to be offered upon zoning in.4. There needs to be a better incentive for 90/300 players to use DF. 25% bonus xp doesn't do anything for them.5. Cross server needs to happen eventually as well. On permafrost the lower levels are dead. I've just spent 30 minutes queue for random on my level 30 defiler. Lower population servers are going to be just as dead as they were before.

Koleg

10-07-2011, 12:05 PM

<cite>Twistone@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>1. You need to be able to queue for dungeons that are lower level than yourself. I wanted to mentor a friend and do some level 30 dungeons with them and it wouldn't let my level 90 queue up with them. This discourages lower level grouping. If you make the level 30 toon the group leader they should be able to queue for the lower (in level range) zones. 2. We need to be able to change the loot options. NBG all items is annoying.3. Daily shard quests and challenging (3 day shard quests) need to be offered upon zoning in.4. There needs to be a better incentive for 90/300 players to use DF. 25% bonus xp doesn't do anything for them.5. Cross server needs to happen eventually as well. On permafrost the lower levels are dead. I've just spent 30 minutes queue for random on my level 30 defiler. Lower population servers are going to be just as dead as they were before.</blockquote>#6 .. we need to be able to zone a partical group and not WAIT for an HOUR for a 6th member. Especially in the Pre-DOV content where nobody is playing except the small progression guild which your in.

Emperors

10-07-2011, 12:24 PM

<cite>Koleg@Unrest_old wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Twistone@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>1. You need to be able to queue for dungeons that are lower level than yourself. I wanted to mentor a friend and do some level 30 dungeons with them and it wouldn't let my level 90 queue up with them. This discourages lower level grouping. If you make the level 30 toon the group leader they should be able to queue for the lower (in level range) zones. 2. We need to be able to change the loot options. NBG all items is annoying.3. Daily shard quests and challenging (3 day shard quests) need to be offered upon zoning in.4. There needs to be a better incentive for 90/300 players to use DF. 25% bonus xp doesn't do anything for them.5. Cross server needs to happen eventually as well. On permafrost the lower levels are dead. I've just spent 30 minutes queue for random on my level 30 defiler. Lower population servers are going to be just as dead as they were before.</blockquote>#6 .. we need to be able to zone a partical group and not WAIT for an HOUR for a 6th member. Especially in the Pre-DOV content where nobody is playing except the small progression guild which your in.</blockquote>It doesn't work with the level 30 toon being the leader and queuing. It gives an error on all toons saything that the level 90 is too high.

Nijia

10-07-2011, 03:00 PM

Zoning with partial groups is a problem.It gives a bad user experience, and that leads to more thrashing of the DF on the main chat, and less people giving it a chance.It's a bad experience because after waiting already 15min + for some dungeons, you find two people decline and then you're already ported inside the zone, and you have to wait.So now you're no longer on a random queue or a queue for several dungeons, you're stuck with that one dungeon so you have to ait possibly for an even longer time. And the group wasn't even complete when zoning in.Why do people decline after queuing? I don't know. But for user experience, you need to find a way to zone people in only when everyone has accepted.

Shaolin Sam

10-07-2011, 03:19 PM

Another screwup the Dungeon Finder is doing is it's pulling people into already cleared instances. I waited over 5 hours yesterday on my healer for a dungeon (decided to give it another shot late at night) and when I finally got pulled into one, it was a cleared one. People were just in there yapping with each other. The group then disbanded. I had to zone out, gate home and then re-enter the queue. Waited another 2 hours and said "The heck with it" and logged off for sleep.So far the Dungeon Finder is NOT impressing me.Waiting in the queue that long means that either not many people are using it (which is possible since it's new and broken), not many people play this game anymore so there's not a big pool of people to pull from (also possible since I know tons and tons of people are quitting this game everyday to go play other, better made, games) or it's just plain broken and not putting groups together the way it should (It's an SOE product and it's a general rule that anything SOE pushes to the Live Servers usually doesn't work right for the first 3-6 months).Just curious what's going on.

Shaolin Sam

10-07-2011, 03:23 PM

P.S. -- Hurry up and make this cross-server, please. When your servers have as few people playing on them as they are, you NEED this to be cross-server so that the queue times are shorter.IMO Dungeon Finder (as a project) will be a complete fail until you code it to be cross-server.

Nijia

10-07-2011, 04:05 PM

There is also the underlying problem: why do people cancel after queuing ?Because the name is shown with a message in main chat, I have seen the same person decline on more than one occasion.* Is it possible that some people forget about the queue if it takes more than say, 10 mins, and so they don't plan their time/questing around accordingly and eventually the popup appears and they cancel ?* More likely, perhaps, is that people queue thinking they have X amount of time free before the next PQ or guild event or logging off, and then the queue takes longer than 10 minutes, and they finally decline because the PQ is about to start or whatever else.Zoning in with a less than full group is bad because:1) It gives the wrong impression. It's all about 1st impression, and people need to see asap. that the group is going somewhere instead of nowhere. People must see a full group or they will disband within 5 minutes.2) People will most likely disband before the DF finds more, because they don't necessarily know that the DF continues to fill the group. Why do they not know? Because it's not clearly shown anywhere. No HUD message saying "looking for more..." or window that says "group in progress" etc.3) As I said above, not only do you have to wait some more, but now you can't do questing or broker'ing while waiting, as you are inside the dungeon; and you are possibly waiting longer than if you had stayed on the random/mutliple selection queue.Typical scenario: you are four, the monk leaves thinking it's bugged, then 2 seconds later the DF finds a healer but the healer sees just three other people and leaves, etc.

Valdaglerion

10-07-2011, 04:54 PM

1. Rather than zone in, we should see that the Group has been filled with 4 people, looking for 2 more, looking for 1 more, etc with estimated wait times shown. The whole group once compiled should then be zoned in.2. Mentored/Chronomage/True level should be consideredCant say enough how much cross server needs to be done. Made this comment while Battlegrounds was still in development and were talking about applying a similar strategy for heroic and raid instances.

Shaolin Sam

10-07-2011, 06:04 PM

SOE needs to just pay WoW or Rift for their Dungeon LFG Tool code imo and tweak it. Their systems work great <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Nijia

10-07-2011, 08:16 PM

<cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>1. Rather than zone in, we should see that the Group has been filled with 4 people, looking for 2 more, looking for 1 more, etc with estimated wait times shown. The whole group once compiled should then be zoned in.2. Mentored/Chronomage/True level should be considered </blockquote>I've been thinking about that. What if it simply transparently says 1 of 6, 2of 6 etc. I figured maybe some ppl would have no patience and leave if only 2 after 5 minutes.On the other hand, imagine that it shows the name and clas/level of people. If you don't like someone, then bail out before it completes, or decline if you're the last one to join. If you don't like the setup of the first five classes, bail out. Would be far better for the group to have 6 people who wanted in, than have people who are not happy with the level or the main tank or the rest of the group build.Anyway so far so good, I'm definitely getting more groups with the DF, and other than the occasional hiccups, I'm glad we finally have a Dungeon Finder <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Just did The Vigilant: Incursion. Looked like half group including me had never been there!

Anestacia

10-07-2011, 08:16 PM

What is the reason for not having the TSO zones? Also missing some of the vigilant zones, cella, research halls, eow, and maybe more. Will these be added or is their a reason they arent there?

Nijia

10-07-2011, 10:39 PM

Wait now I'm seeing a "Reinforcing..." button.Sorry for my previous uninformed comments but it's not very intuitive.Somehow, the DF decided I'm the group leader (because I applied for a specific zone?), and I get to see the Reinforcing button.So all this time I was in incomplete groups it seemed as if there is no indication at all that the group is "reinforcing" but in fact the group leader can see it. Another thing that seemed odd was after I tried queuing the group to another zone we agreed on, it worked, but instead of zoning all at the same time, people disappeared from my group... I was wondering what happened, then I realized as people Accept the next dungeon they are moved out separately only to be regrouped later. But now with a different group leader, because someone else had clicked Accept earlier than me.Those are minor points I suppose people will get used to it... just echoing some of my impressions.

Aneova

10-08-2011, 01:32 PM

I turned on my LFG tag prior to using the DF to find a group and found that while in group my LFG tag remained active.

mallice

10-08-2011, 02:12 PM

Hi,A quick question about the Dungeon Finder.My wife and I duo quite a bit.If we group up as a duo and I put us in the que for dungeon finder, will we get picked up for groups?I don't see anything where it explains how this works.How does this work for people who duo often?Can someone share their experience with us?Thanks in advance.

Shaolin Sam

10-08-2011, 02:39 PM

<cite>mallice wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi,A quick question about the Dungeon Finder.My wife and I duo quite a bit.If we group up as a duo and I put us in the que for dungeon finder, will we get picked up for groups?</blockquote>Yes

Shaolin Sam

10-08-2011, 03:53 PM

Already mentioned Cella and Research Halls weren't listed in the Dungeon Finder (enormous mistake btw... god...) but also noticed that Drundar: EoW isn't listed either.You guys in the Developing Department DO have a list of all the dungeon zones in the game, right? If not, I can provide one for you. Just give me an email address and a check for $50 (I usually charge $75/hr for computer services but I'll cut you a break since this is a game I play).

Whilhelmina

10-09-2011, 07:27 AM

Someone on our server was sad not to be able to cue for Guk at level 90.

Eveningsong

10-09-2011, 12:37 PM

I did several dungeons yesterday on my dirge with pretty good results, fast groups and always at least a tank and healer.However, we had some odd things happen in our Hold of Rime: The Fortress Spire instance. We got our 6 people fairly quickly and started off. I noticed as we were fighting that two different people hit "decline" well after we were already full. I assumed that these folks were perhaps afk with the request on their screen or something. However, eventually I saw an accept message -- and a 7th person was in the zone with us, ungrouped.

Michayla

10-09-2011, 01:47 PM

1) Getting zoned into cleared instances. Highly annoying.2) Getting pulled into a zone, NOT getting put into a group. The zone registers me as the "7th person" and kicks me out of the zone. Then I have to wait until the group that's in there clears the zone before I can re-queue. This has happened twice so far. Zones were Temple of Rallos Zek and the Coservatory.Overall impressions: If you're going to copy another game, do it right. If you aren't going to do it right, don't do it at all. So far dungeon finder has been a very bad experience.

Nijia

10-09-2011, 03:11 PM

<cite>Michayla@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>2) Getting pulled into a zone, NOT getting put into a group. The zone registers me as the "7th person" and kicks me out of the zone. Then I have to wait until the group that's in there clears the zone before I can re-queue. This has happened twice so far. Zones were Temple of Rallos Zek and the Coservatory.</blockquote>I think they're working on that one.I witnessed it first hand yesterday. We were four, two declines. Manually invited a couple of players into the group (tank and his friend). The group leader had the Reinforcing button on, and so later we saw two players being pulled in by the Dungeon Finder, but the group was full. They were probably locked out of the zone for a while..I see two main reasons for Declines so far, none of which warrant a penalty.1) You queue up then 30 min later finally get an invite, but by then it's 10 min to the next PQ or something. I have declined twice so far. After 30 min you just forget that you are queued, especially that there is no indication whatsoever when the DF window is closed. There should be some HUD indication that a queue is in progress. This is a weakness of the DF (algorithm, lack of options, lack of user friendly UI) and/or population issue, and does not warrant punishing players with a penalty. Time should better be focused on making the DF more fun to use at this point IMHO.2) You want the 25% XP bonus (I don't care, but I know I'm not the majority). So you use the random checkbox, but since you can not opt out of specific dungeons then you have to decline to get the equivalent of a "sub selection" of random dungeons. Why do people Decline specific dungeons? Because the list is too basic. Most players consider Shards of Love to be a non regular dungeon as it has no loot. Other players may consider the newest Sinking Sands instances to be specific cases because they are significantly harder, and have long lockout times (you might not want get a lockout while queuing for a random dungeon). Or you might want to keep dungeons from a specific expansion without lockout, to complete with guildies later. This does not warrant a penalty either because: * Changes that have been alluded by devs, such as adding refined categories while retaining the 25% xXP bonus should alreayd alleviate this problem (assuming there is a flexible set of categories such as per expansion, per difficulty..). * It is the Dungeon Finder's fault for zoning in a group before everyone has Accepted. This is a bad user experience plain and simple. Moreover, it should be at each player's discretion whether they want to join or have changed their mind.No amount of penalty will make a bad user experience more desirable.That's my experience from level 80-90 zones, with a level 88 character.I assume there may be more issues in the end game dungeons. So far I have not come accross people who leave a full group becaue they are displeased with the group setup.I imagine that could be more of an occurence in the DoV dungeons, but even then, I would think that the time would be better spent making the algorithm better, or adding more information such as difficulty and *recommended* gear to the dungeon list rather than spend time implementing penalties, which will invariably bring their own bunch of complaints, bugs, and negative side effects.-"Just my 2 cents"

Nijia

10-09-2011, 03:19 PM

Regarding the 25% XP Bonus:Now here's something to consider.While I don't care so much about a 25% XP Bonus myself. I find that I often queue for a bunch of dungeons, but specifically remove a few from the list.This seems perfectly reasonable to me. But then it leads to the question: why would I not be awarded a XP bonus if I am queuing for a handful of dungeons? Like 90% of the list? It doesn't seem right from a logical point of view.Could we alleviate declines by calculating the XP bonus up to the 25% cap based on how many dungeons the person selected?So if I select 5 dungeons maybe I get 10% , 7 dungeons I get 15% and so on. Display the XP % somewhere in the window.That feature may not be necessary if the devs add sufficiently refined categories (as SmokeJumper alluded to). However if you were to implement it, perhaps it would solve any lack of categories as you can always make any selection you want and get the XP bonus so long as you select 5+ zones (for example).Just another possible idea that may help alleviate some of the Declines.

Michayla

10-09-2011, 05:22 PM

<cite>Nijia@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Michayla@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>2) Getting pulled into a zone, NOT getting put into a group. The zone registers me as the "7th person" and kicks me out of the zone. Then I have to wait until the group that's in there clears the zone before I can re-queue. This has happened twice so far. Zones were Temple of Rallos Zek and the Coservatory.</blockquote>I think they're working on that one.I witnessed it first hand yesterday. We were four, two declines. Manually invited a couple of players into the group (tank and his friend). The group leader had the Reinforcing button on, and so later we saw two players being pulled in by the Dungeon Finder, but the group was full. They were probably locked out of the zone for a while..</blockquote>No, you're just not locked out of the zone. You're locked out of using dungeon finder completely until your "group" has completed the zone. It's not a matter of just being locked out Rallos Zek. If that were the case, I could always find another dungeon to do if I could use dungeon finder. But the way dungeon finder is set up, you can't use it until whoever is in that zone completes the zone or the group disbands. It's ridiculous and should've never made it to live in such a state.(Medium) You may receive a DF invite, then zone to the dungeon instance, and see all the players arrive that should be in your group, but not actually be invited to the group. If this occurs, just have someone invite you normally and you can keep playing correctly.How is this only medium priority? By the time people are able to communicate they are experiencing a design flaw, someone has already been invited to take their spot and they are kicked out of the zone. The message that pops up "You will be kicked from this instance in 15 seconds" pops up and then you are instantly ported out.

Daggster

10-10-2011, 02:46 AM

I also experienced the bug where you get instantly kicked out after clicking accept and have been ported into the zone. Also got to enjoy the "dungeon finder" lockout because I didn't know I need to join/form another group and disband to get the DF queue available again. Also I got locked out of the zone without any chance of getting any reward from it, because I clicked accept...I anticipated this feature alot, but with current issues, I won't be using it at all before some sort of patch. The aforementioned bug is one of the reasones. Yesterday I also got thrown into Throne of Storms a few times. I queued myself and almost instantly got offered a group, clicked accept and ended up in ToS with one other person and neither were in a group. After some waiting for reinforcements (one dps popped up) I decided to leave. After a while I queued up again and again got just about instantly offered a group, poof into ToS again, this time alone, nobody else around.After a few secs though a healer arrived and then some tima later a chanter, but as the end result, I ended up sitting at ToS entrance a while for nothing. Could've spent that time in GH spamming the channels...Another thing that needs fixing IMO is the fact that DF is throwing ppl into ToRZ (and other KD instances) in PQ/solo-quest gear. If you have tank that can't even crit in the zone, how is he/she supposed to keep aggro from even the healer, let alone scouts/mages? Not to mention having half the hitpoints and perhaps mitigation of the mages in the group. Before implementing any penalty for declining the group you really need to make sure, that ppl don't get thrown into zones they just can't handle on their gear.I understand that the shard-reqiurement removal probably has something to do with wanting to let ppl get the gear easier so that KD isn't so far above ppls gear (though the basic casuals won't have the plat to buy the gems). However, does Ry'Gorr gear get your CM to the Drunder minimum? And once again you're either forced to not use the random dungeon feature, or have to decline the groups if you get offered a spot in Drunder (Ry'Gorr + solo-quested jewelry/weapons etc just doesn't cut it).KD with no gear limitation at all just means that some of the ppl who use random dungeon feature, are forced to decline the invitation unless they want to spend an hour or 2 banging their head agains a wall named Neocorus Rikrlander (first named, and pretty much the first fight (the EM/HM selection mob doesn't count) in ToRZ). You just can't get anywhere in ToRZ unless most everyone (tank/healer and 1 dps at least) have got some decent gear on them.Penalty for something that's forced down your throat won't have positive effects...

Shaolin Sam

10-10-2011, 02:39 PM

Another reason to make the dungeon finder cross server and stop with it being home server only...I queued up on my mystic into the dungeon finder (queued for random so it'd queue me for everything). Then went about messing around finishing quests, helping some friends with their quests, etc. Honestly forgot I was even IN the dungeon queue until just now and finally just said "the heck with it!" and un-queued.Time elapsed I was in the queue? 9 hours...So... either this game is just about dead, people aren't using the dungeon finder due to all the mess-ups you guys have with it atm or... THERE ISN'T ENOUGH PEOPLE ON MY SERVER TO DRAW FROM!IE -- Make it cross-server already so it'll stop stinking so bad.Well... that and fix all the other things that are messed up with it of course <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

loramil

10-10-2011, 03:37 PM

<cite>Nijia@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is also the underlying problem: why do people cancel after queuing ?Because the name is shown with a message in main chat, I have seen the same person decline on more than one occasion.* Is it possible that some people forget about the queue if it takes more than say, 10 mins, and so they don't plan their time/questing around accordingly and eventually the popup appears and they cancel ?* More likely, perhaps, is that people queue thinking they have X amount of time free before the next PQ or guild event or logging off, and then the queue takes longer than 10 minutes, and they finally decline because the PQ is about to start or whatever else.Zoning in with a less than full group is bad because:1) It gives the wrong impression. It's all about 1st impression, and people need to see asap. that the group is going somewhere instead of nowhere. People must see a full group or they will disband within 5 minutes.2) People will most likely disband before the DF finds more, because they don't necessarily know that the DF continues to fill the group. Why do they not know? Because it's not clearly shown anywhere. No HUD message saying "looking for more..." or window that says "group in progress" etc.3) As I said above, not only do you have to wait some more, but now you can't do questing or broker'ing while waiting, as you are inside the dungeon; and you are possibly waiting longer than if you had stayed on the random/mutliple selection queue.Typical scenario: you are four, the monk leaves thinking it's bugged, then 2 seconds later the DF finds a healer but the healer sees just three other people and leaves, etc.</blockquote>I've only done this once myself, but I had also been queued for over 2 hours at that point and I was in the middle of the ring war.I can't recall if i was actually IN the raid or not at the moment, so first i would ask, does DF check your current group status before giving you the accept / decline message. If it doens't, it should.Also, maybe give us an option out box (checkbox) to not ask during a PQ if your queued for level 90 stuff.

Shaolin Sam

10-11-2011, 01:20 PM

Add Research Halls...Add Cella...Add EoW...Hellloooooooooo Reds.......... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Nijia

10-11-2011, 07:44 PM

Being pulled into a zone with a group that has already cleared half of it is a problem.It's very annoying if one group is reinforcing for a last mob or something, because you can't skip that group. You can't queue for the dungeon you want to do from the start, for a while. It's like shooting in the dark as you don't know when said group was filled and you can safely queue again without being pulled in that particular group.That is not a too common problem I suppose, but still a negative side effect of the Reinforcing option.If the Dungeon Finder's apprach was a bit different... such as showing a list of groups as they are building up, that would give you space to display "time since beginning" eg. 20min means the group started the zone 20 min ago. Then you would be able to skip those groups if you want to do the whole zone.The DF isn't working very well for me lately.I'm rather disappointed that I'm queuing for 40+ min for 4 easy instances in DoV (pools, ascent, ToFS,...).If this is really a population issue rather than general adoption, then I don't believe cross servers will changes things dramatically.Instead I feel the DF need another design. One where it helps people fill up existing groups that choose to queue (you can start alone to go LFM), instead of being a black box where you just hope that there are people queuing somewhere for the zones you're interested in.I'd much rather see ppl starting groups for zones I am less interested, and get some grouping, than none at all.Also I suspect groups would fill faster if one can see which dungeon queues are currently waiting for more.

Urrano

10-23-2011, 08:09 AM

a. you need to let people have a mentor option before zone in, a lvl81 tank gets pulled into delving the dead instance with 4 lvl 90 and 1 lvl82 = doesnt work.b. consistanly tankless groups the last 9 groups with 6 pll were tankless.c. you need to get cross server groups goingd. opt out button for people who dont want to mentor

Faeward

10-25-2011, 03:09 PM

Erudin Royal Palace and Vasty Deep: The Vestigial Cella are missing from the Sentinel's Fate dungeons.

Aiirbornne

11-18-2011, 11:41 PM

EDIT: i know that this is the wrong section.. just watched the webcast recap and HAD to post this questionwill there be the possibility of DUNGEON MAKER RAIDSthe webcast said that the DM will scale to the # of avatars entering the DM map.. will this include the possibilty of RAIDING for tokens!! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />ALSOEQ1 had Depths of Darkhollow and the avatars that you played there had AA to spend but you could only spend a finite amount granted by the DoD system..will these avatars have AA to setup for custom play styles or bonus to heal / nuke / tank abilitiesEQ1 DoD as well as the LDoN system had raids .. /fingerscrossed

Hirofortis

12-21-2011, 02:41 PM

Some thoughts on Dungeon Finder that would help it be used.1st you need to add a feature that allows you to select which of your alts you are willing to play. It can use the/camp toon command and would allow a much easier time to fill groups. 2nd, now that we have mercs put a time limit on dungeon finder groups. If a group cannot be put together withing 10 minutes then it will auto fill the resrt of the group with mercs. I have tried the dungeon finder as well as watched my kids using it and sitting there for 30 - 60 minutes for it to try and put together a group is a joke. It is not even close to worth it.Additionally, there is little to no incentive to use it when you are maxed out. Develop a reward system that will make people want to use it. Dungeon Maker / Finder cash could be an incentive. Likewise the items you get from the rewsearch assistants are a pretty cool incentive. The idea behind the dungeon finder is good, but right now the implementation leaves a lot to be desired. I for one have absolutly no use for it if I am going to be waiting for an hour to get a group. I can build my own group a heck of a lot faster and make sure it is successful.

jdawg_1_1

12-23-2011, 01:52 AM

Dungeon Finder should NOT put you into a dungeon until you have a full group, when you are waiting an hour at the front of a dungeon for a usually mediocre not well balanced group you have more incentive to leave than to stick it out and wait to get wiped. Also some sort of rewards system should be in place for FINISHING dungeon in DF, too many players come in looking for 5 minute thrills in Velious dungeons that take an hour or more to complete. If you dont finish the instance have a 24 hour (or longer) lockout to improve the amount of groups that actually finish. More people MIGHT use this feature if there was some incentive to it and felt more secure in finishing what was started. I for one have stopped using this feature because of the poor group placement and lack of incentive to use it at level 90. Change some things I might try it again till then it just another useless feature that I see no reason to use.

WanyenII

12-23-2011, 05:57 AM

<cite>Nijia@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote>Regarding the 25% XP Bonus:Now here's something to consider.While I don't care so much about a 25% XP Bonus myself. I find that I often queue for a bunch of dungeons, but specifically remove a few from the list.This seems perfectly reasonable to me. But then it leads to the question: why would I not be awarded a XP bonus if I am queuing for a handful of dungeons? Like 90% of the list? It doesn't seem right from a logical point of view.Could we alleviate declines by calculating the XP bonus up to the 25% cap based on how many dungeons the person selected?So if I select 5 dungeons maybe I get 10% , 7 dungeons I get 15% and so on. Display the XP % somewhere in the window.That feature may not be necessary if the devs add sufficiently refined categories (as SmokeJumper alluded to). However if you were to implement it, perhaps it would solve any lack of categories as you can always make any selection you want and get the XP bonus so long as you select 5+ zones (for example).Just another possible idea that may help alleviate some of the Declines.</blockquote>I think you are on the right track with this aspect of it. Instead of an all or nothing bonus, give additive bonuses for dungeon groups or subcategories when every dungeon of a subcategory is selected by the willing and ready player. If all dungeons from one group/sub-category are selected, +3%; another complete group selected, +3%, and every group after that, +3% up to 18%. If every dungeon that a player is considered 'eligible' for, based on level range, gear restrictions, and lockouts is selected, give an additinal +12% bonus. The idea here is that the more flexible a player is, the more we should recognize it; but even basic participation should be recognized. By keeping the per group/sub-category bonus small, we can keep the potential total bonus reasonable if there are numerous groups within a particular level range. At the same time, some level ranges have few groups/sub-categories, and by retaining a slightly larger component bonus for selecting all groups, we can continue recognize a players complete flexability. Don't count it against a player when determining if all groups are selected if the player isn't able to do a particular dungeon because of limits on gear or zone lockouts. The idea is to encourage people to use DF and be willing to do more dungeon groups and more specific zones. And more than likely the players who are unable to (because of gear or lockouts) would have been willing to run those zones if they were able (and in the case of the zone lockout, recently did). Players should not have to opt out of a group if they have a lockout or dont meet minimum gear checks in one or more of the dugneons in the group, so long as they dont deselect the ones that don't have lockouts and have gear adequate for the zone check.At most a player could earn +30% bonus (at least 6 groups of dungeons available and all selected); and at minimum, +15% bonus for selecting all dungeons in a level range (only one group for the range). A few level ranges will have more than six groups of dungeons, but not many at this point.

Kaco2

12-28-2011, 02:34 PM

Don't know if this stuff has been mentioned before and even if it has I think these changes need to be made to make the Dungeon Finder more usefull.The rotation system that is currently being used is horrible as if I decide I want to que up for 1 specific instance and the DF has just passed it then I could be waiting hours while it fills up every other dungeon in the list. I think some kind of priority system where it will fill look for a dungeon that has 1 person only queing for it and fill it. After that it should be completely random decreasing the chance of the dungeons popped with less people qued for.If a full group ques for a dungeon or any group all those people should be destined for the same dungeon and remain in the same group and go to that dungeon as soon as the base requirements are met for classes and the DF needs to start reinforcing that group. A full group in que for a specific dungeon for more then 5 seconds makes no sense.Mercs popped need to be considered members of the group so people dont get bugged out and end up locked and suposedly in a group.Any decent mathematician should be able to work out an algorithm to be used for an awesome Dungeon Finder. The best dungeon finders are the ones that can have you in groups back to back and if they are like this then people will use them more. If the level ranges match the actual level of the dungeon it makes for a lot more successfull pick up groups. The level ranges need to be adjusted upwards to take into account the bronze and silver users that may not be in legendary gear.Some instances need to have the minimum level raised by at least 5 levels and in some cases min level should be 90. Research Halls is impossible with tanks and healers less then 90 when the dps is under 85 as well. Vasty Deep: Conservatory is 85+ for tank and heals and even at that the final boss will probably not be killed unless the other 4 group members are well geared dps. There are a lot more Sentinals Fate instances like this. Also ALL of the instances from TSO need to be set to 5 level gaps not 10 as a group with level 90 mobs is complete fail when the tank is 80.<div><div></div><img src="http://www.google.com/uds/css/small-logo.png" /></div>

Faeward

01-06-2012, 07:18 AM

Earlier today, I had a lockout timer of 35 days on one of my characters. I think this is too high.Character name is Vajena.

Metal_Starz

01-07-2012, 02:15 AM

This thing is really broken and I am not talking about getting bad groups or even the fact it zones you in with one other person that isn't even in the zone. Right now my issue is getting put into an already full group and not getting zoned in. I then hit Return to go to dungeon and I get the 15 second boot. After this happens I have to wait 15 mins to queue. After the 15 mins is up and getting my "Failed to Stay With Group" message it doesn't give me the option to re-queue on ANY of my characters! This last week I have had nothing but trouble with it.Also, I got zoned into an instance that was already cleared and was by myself. Waited out the 15 F'n minutes again just to get put in the same frigging instance but with a group. The zone was already cleared and not one person in grp ran the zone previously. The 15 minute queue needs to get dropped while Dungeon Finder is still broken.