Public Crafting Quests [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Pixiewrath

09-14-2011, 10:16 AM

Has anyone thought about this? The normal PQ is kind of unbalanced cause everyone stand spamming buttons and get relative uber gear without any efford, and the rewards are horrible when people tire of it and the mobs get weak.But what if there was a Public Crafting Quest instead? Kind of like the daily Mara crafting quest, but in an open zone?Craft X number of items before the time runs out together, and the rewards will be based on how many items were crafted in time.Add a whole bunch of furniture, crafting equipment, maybe even mounts... and of course the recipes, that you loot individually instead of 20 items in one recipe for every Public Crafting Quest. Avoid putting rare harvests in the loots as it could flood the market though. Put up a billboard in Qeynos and Freeport that states when the PCQs are starting in different crafting areas. (Those billboards could also state the combat PQs as it will be a mess to keep track of them in the future otherwise.)Isn't that a nice idea? Would make sure the crafting areas in the different cities gets a bit populated and also gives crafters something nice to strive for other than the constant Mara grinding. Anyone like this suggestion?I love the carpentry profession, and doing things like this could gain some hard to get furniture recipes. For example if a small group completes it you can get Handcrafted Recipe rewards. If the outcome is better, people have the chance for mastercrafted recipe items. And with an entire raiding craft successful, you can have the chance for some mastercrafted fabled recipes?Are you with me?! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />

Cyliena

09-14-2011, 10:27 AM

Yup, I've considered that. Even have an entire idea for where, who, what you do etc for it. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> Maybe I'll eventually /feedback it.edit: Feedbacked it along with the several other ideas I had. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Pixiewrath

09-16-2011, 07:52 AM

I just read a thread about a <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=506937" target="_blank">Tradeskill Mythical </a>item.I think in this Public Crafting Quest, you should also have a chance to loot one of a few required items to craft this item with every PCQ you do <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />And as I wrote in that post, that mythical item could boost some crafting skills as well as having a 1-2% chance of creating double items when you craft. Would be a nice boon for crafters and something to strive for.

Tallithia

09-16-2011, 04:01 PM

I resent that...I don't just stand around, I dodge n weave <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I personally don't like crafting quests that make me seek out others to finish them. I don't know why but to have a quest take me added time just because a certain tradeskill isn't on, or too busy etc...annoying. Add to that, I am one of those who it is against my nature to 'ask' for help. So like with the MC quest, waited until someone else asked for help (cause I do love helping others) then traded to finish that skill. MC took me months to finish.

Elf_Queen

09-16-2011, 04:58 PM

<cite>Tallithia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I resent that...I don't just stand around, I dodge n weave <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />I personally don't like crafting quests that make me seek out others to finish them. I don't know why but to have a quest take me added time just because a certain tradeskill isn't on, or too busy etc...annoying. Add to that, I am one of those who it is against my nature to 'ask' for help. So like with the MC quest, waited until someone else asked for help (cause I do love helping others) then traded to finish that skill. MC took me months to finish.</blockquote>I have to agree here, one of the reasons I love crafting and have made so many is the solo-nature of it. I am able to craft or harvest when I only have 15 minutes to play and can AFK whenever I need to which I can't do in a group. I like that I can harvest my own items, make everything from scratch, and do solo questlines. What I don't like is the group quests, or those requiring me to have other crafters available.. Im not saying a PQ is a bad idea just that I don't want to feel that I need to group or rely on other crafters to get items/recipes. If you want to group or raid as a crafter fine but don't make the items exclusive to that. I find the mara tradeskill daily just painful solo and I really have no desire to group for it for a chance at a recipe. I want to be able to buy this recipe with tokens or someway I can get them solo. So adding more quests like this for recipes that are needed would be a bad idea imo.

Lempo

09-16-2011, 05:06 PM

<cite>Pixiewrath@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Has anyone thought about this? The normal PQ is kind of unbalanced cause everyone stand spamming buttons and get relative uber gear without any efford, and the rewards are horrible when people tire of it and the mobs get weak.But what if there was a Public Crafting Quest instead? Kind of like the daily Mara crafting quest, but in an open zone?</blockquote>So in this crafting PQ that you speak of it is going to be balanced because people are standing around spamming even fewer buttons than the PQ's? The rewards have not changed in the PQ's except for being nerfed to a reasonable level, the mobs were also nerfed far more than they needed to beWhat sort of risk would be involved in this PQ quest?What kind of rewards exactly are you wanting from it (we already know you want lol mythicals).This could be implemented in some way possibly maybe on a certain day (1-3 days maybe) every month where certain factions are at war with each other and infrastructure needs to be rebuilt like the mara quests. The rewards however can not be as powerful as you want them to be with the near 0 risk factor, and running out of power, or dying because you miss 30 counters is not a risk factor.

Felshades

09-16-2011, 05:40 PM

<cite>Gems@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tallithia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I resent that...I don't just stand around, I dodge n weave <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />I personally don't like crafting quests that make me seek out others to finish them. I don't know why but to have a quest take me added time just because a certain tradeskill isn't on, or too busy etc...annoying. Add to that, I am one of those who it is against my nature to 'ask' for help. So like with the MC quest, waited until someone else asked for help (cause I do love helping others) then traded to finish that skill. MC took me months to finish.</blockquote>I have to agree here, one of the reasons I love crafting and have made so many is the solo-nature of it. I am able to craft or harvest when I only have 15 minutes to play and can AFK whenever I need to which I can't do in a group. I like that I can harvest my own items, make everything from scratch, and do solo questlines. What I don't like is the group quests, or those requiring me to have other crafters available.. Im not saying a PQ is a bad idea just that I don't want to feel that I need to group or rely on other crafters to get items/recipes. If you want to group or raid as a crafter fine but don't make the items exclusive to that. I find the mara tradeskill daily just painful solo and I really have no desire to group for it for a chance at a recipe. I want to be able to buy this recipe with tokens or someway I can get them solo. So adding more quests like this for recipes that are needed would be a bad idea imo.</blockquote>I also prefer to be self sufficient. I dislike asking for help for anything. Getting my epic done was a pain in the rear because I dislike asking people to do combines for me. I've gotten lucky with friends that can make like Ry'Gorr gear and the mastercrafted fabled stuff and offered before I needed to ask, and even then I really don't like asking.A public quest also would have the downfall of "once you get everything you need from it, why do it?" that the current adv PQs have. Once people painfully get their items from Storm Gorge, they avoid it like the plague. Ring War is a little more tolerable due to simplicity and the only fails I've seen there is lack of players late at night or early in the morning.Once people get things from the crafter PQs, they'll stop showing up. You won't have that Carpenter you need, or theres no Sage. Crafter gear doesn't seem to really get upgraded like adventuring gear, and shots at rares are almost moot for some people. Even adding a mythical item won't entice some crafters to do it.I'm kinda up in the air on it. It seems to be a decent idea, but I can't think of a way to implement something like this that isn't going to have a high chance of failure due to lack of participation, and if something from it becomes mandatory or nearly so, you'll have a LOT of whining from people that don't really like tradeskilling, but do it anyways out of necessity or something. Like the idea of a tradeskilled myth that had raid stats in the other thread. You'd essentially be forcing raiders to take a tradeskill in order to get it(since you'd have to make it so that you can't commission it imo... nothing like buying your myth to make it feel like less of an accomplishment) because you'd need it for progression. Much like the Kunark mythicals. I know a bunch of people that couldn't get it done with their raids for whatever reason and felt compelled to pay out the backside to be carried through updates. That's what you'd have if you could commission it. I'd rather avoid that scenario again.I'm rambling. I'll can it for now.TLDR: good idea, difficult to implement well imo

Tallithia

09-16-2011, 06:14 PM

gourdon

09-16-2011, 09:03 PM

When discussing the upcoming Commonlands PQ a few months back, the idea of having a crafting component to rebuild fortifications after the destruction of battle came up. They could definitely add a tradeskill component to the downtime between combat PQs to give them a more realistic feel.

Pixiewrath

09-16-2011, 10:10 PM

<cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pixiewrath@The Bazaar wrote:</cite>So in this crafting PQ that you speak of it is going to be balanced because people are standing around spamming even fewer buttons than the PQ's? The rewards have not changed in the PQ's except for being nerfed to a reasonable level, the mobs were also nerfed far more than they needed to beWhat sort of risk would be involved in this PQ quest?What kind of rewards exactly are you wanting from it (we already know you want lol mythicals).This could be implemented in some way possibly maybe on a certain day (1-3 days maybe) every month where certain factions are at war with each other and infrastructure needs to be rebuilt like the mara quests. The rewards however can not be as powerful as you want them to be with the near 0 risk factor, and running out of power, or dying because you miss 30 counters is not a risk factor.</blockquote>Because if you are a lot of people doing this, and you can die from pressing the wrong buttons, it requires everyone's total focus. If anyone dies, it takes away valuable time to meet the requirement before the time runs out.For example, they could have a requirement of say totally 300 items in 15 minutes for max reward.If that happens, the players have the chance for max level drops.If they fail with this and only make 200-299 items in that time, it could be the second best item tiers.And so on, down to solo level.When this quest is completed, the aforementioned items could be gained as reward.Say there are 4 different loot tiers. Common (1-6 players) , Treasured 2 x Group, Legendary 3 x, and Fabled 4 x.If you complete a fabled you get the chance to loot a fabled "piece" to the mythical item. And this exist as i.e. 9 different pieces. (Plus the actual recipe for the myth item.) Let us call it a "Fabled Screw" for now.If a "common" is completed you can get a low tier item that you can use called "Common Screw". If you combine three of those you get a "Treasured Screw" etc. That way even if participation is low one day, you can still craft your way up to those Fabled Screws if you don't manage to get one in a full force crafting team.Like I said, I want the crafting Myth reward to be pure crafter friendly (like my example of having a 1-2% chance of making a doublecraft on non-lore items). No raid/combat armor involved at all. As for the loot items aside from the myth item parts, there could be weaponsmith recipes for appearance weapons, armorsmith recipes for appearance armor, etc etc.Personally, I like quests when crafters need to come together, because if I only wanted solo content I would play a game like Oblivion or Fallout 3. I do a lot of solo content in EQ2 too of course, but the fact is that it is a MMORPG and MMORPGs are about player interaction, so I definitely think encouraging crafters to meet each other is a good thing.I got happy when I did the Proof of Pudding quest. It took time to accomplish but the reward was really nice (especially the speed boost buff) and it was nice to have to meet people.As a crafter I like to craft items (furniture in my case as a carpenter) for people to use. That's the entire reason I like crafting in general. Being a part of the ever changing world <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />That, and I like house keeping ^_^

kdmorse

09-17-2011, 01:00 AM

<cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>What sort of risk would be involved in this PQ quest?... snip ...This could be implemented in some way possibly maybe on a certain day (1-3 days maybe) every month where certain factions are at war with each other and infrastructure needs to be rebuilt like the mara quests. The rewards however can not be as powerful as you want them to be with the near 0 risk factor, and running out of power, or dying because you miss 30 counters is not a risk factor.</blockquote>Well, in order to be any challenge at all, all counters would have to be fatal. Preferably with the stop button disabled to prevent folks from squeaking arround death that way. 30 missed counters, should be 30 deaths, and 3 full repair bills. Now, nobody should be missing 30 counters, but you get the idea.Rewards? I don't know. I'm having a hard time envisioning anything that is balanced. Cloudy Jewels, mutables, god trash, ie the low level (non armor) PQ stuff doesn't seem too unreasonable. Anything beyond that, and there really would have to be some real difficulty in there to justify it.(And yes, I know RW is borked from a balance standpoint - but that doesn't justify introducing another borked balance)

Cloudrat

09-17-2011, 03:17 AM

Ok , first I'm supposed to spend weeks gaining the skills to make your gear, feed your face, adorn you and hand out the consumables, now I am supposed to risk death to make it meaningful?? I am supposed to decorate your home make sense of your trophies and work for tips.Where is it written that the only thing that counts as risk is "dying" lol in this game that is the least risky thing you can do.A lot has been done to increase the fun of crafting and crafting quests to make it more palatable for the adventurers who have run out of things to do, but you are starting to shrink your player base even more with trying to apply all the same rules and mechanics to crafting.

V-I-I-I-X-I-I-V

09-17-2011, 03:59 AM

"Public Crafting Quests"I lol'd irl

Deveryn

09-17-2011, 05:09 AM

When I first heard about this on the tradeskill forum, I thought it might be a nice idea and suggested ideas like tieing them to adv PQs somehow, but I'm losing interest as time goes by.How is it even supposed to work, having some 20+ people huddled around stations? As I recall, there are performance issues related to having stations occupy an overland space, which is why you'll only ever see a maximum of one each and they will be somewhat spread out. That being said, where and how do these get set up in the first place? More importantly, what's going to keep a person coming back to these PQs?

Pixiewrath

09-17-2011, 08:39 AM

If you read my posts above your questions will be answered.

Questall

09-17-2011, 09:46 AM

how about resources and fuel? how will u know which and how many u need and does this mean u need to run around in norrath with one or two stacks of fuel and those specific resources all the time (how many times would this p.crafting quest take place also?)

Pixiewrath

09-17-2011, 09:26 PM

<cite>chardz wrote:</cite><blockquote>how about resources and fuel? how will u know which and how many u need and does this mean u need to run around in norrath with one or two stacks of fuel and those specific resources all the time (how many times would this p.crafting quest take place also?)</blockquote>They could have temporary containers with event-specific materials, like the ones you use in today's mara-heroic-crafting-zones. There you get the ingredients needed from harvesting various boxes, "mobs" and so on in the vicinity of the crafting station.In the PCQ event you could have 5 minutes to bunker up event-specific materials at the place where the event takes place, and then the actual crafting event starts with a time limit.For those that didn't understand what the challenge is, it is to meet the required number of crafted items before the time limit runs out.And yes, I think dying would be nice if you don't counter the events. Nothing wrong with that, it worked on one of the quests in Odus where you took a lot of damage and instant-died from mispressing.Pressing the stop button is not going to affect this much at all if the item only is finished near the top level of the durability/progress meter. Then people cannot cheat by stopping it. Many recipes already have it like this to prevent quick-crafting. Only works on some recipes.It could also have slower crafting debuffs, mana drains, mana drains on random nearby crafters, knockback, etc if you fail to counter the event. Not only instant death.There is no mythical crafting gear right now as far as I know, so this would be a nice way to implement one. If the end armor is comprised of 9 different parts, one for each class, and these can be comissioned, it would definitely give crafters an incentive to collaborate to get all 9 pieces of that armor. If there are more than one crafting armor piece, they could have different stats too. Three could improve chance of a doublecraft with 1% each (all artisan classes), three other pieces could increase chance to find rare harvest, like in the skilltree (outfitter sets) and the last three armor pieces could have a major critical success chance or chance for triple harvest or something similiar that would make them unique, and actually usable while crafting/harvesting.Anything to make people want all the pieces. Maybe skip the "common items" and go for only "treasured, legendary, fabled" for the recipes/component's tiers or it would be too much of a hassle. But it would definitely be interesting and I believe this has a lot of potential.

Questall

09-18-2011, 11:54 AM

Sounds good to me.What about lvl of participance? I imagine a lvl 90crafter/lvl 30adventurer will not do?

Pixiewrath

09-18-2011, 12:19 PM

It's a crafting quest so I think any lvl 90 crafter would do, since no combat rewards are gotten from this.Lower lever crafters could of course participate, but with greater chance of failure, like in normal crafting when you try recipes too high for you.

d1anaw

09-18-2011, 12:58 PM

d1anaw

09-18-2011, 01:03 PM

<cite>Cloudrat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok , first I'm supposed to spend weeks gaining the skills to make your gear, feed your face, adorn you and hand out the consumables, now I am supposed to risk death to make it meaningful?? I am supposed to decorate your home make sense of your trophies and work for tips.Where is it written that the only thing that counts as risk is "dying" lol in this game that is the least risky thing you can do.A lot has been done to increase the fun of crafting and crafting quests to make it more palatable for the adventurers who have run out of things to do, but you are starting to shrink your player base even more with trying to apply all the same rules and mechanics to crafting.</blockquote>Raider mentality.

d1anaw

09-18-2011, 01:07 PM

<cite>Pixiewrath@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>chardz wrote:</cite><blockquote>how about resources and fuel? how will u know which and how many u need and does this mean u need to run around in norrath with one or two stacks of fuel and those specific resources all the time (how many times would this p.crafting quest take place also?)</blockquote>They could have temporary containers with event-specific materials, like the ones you use in today's mara-heroic-crafting-zones. There you get the ingredients needed from harvesting various boxes, "mobs" and so on in the vicinity of the crafting station.In the PCQ event you could have 5 minutes to bunker up event-specific materials at the place where the event takes place, and then the actual crafting event starts with a time limit.For those that didn't understand what the challenge is, it is to meet the required number of crafted items before the time limit runs out.And yes, I think dying would be nice if you don't counter the events. Nothing wrong with that, it worked on one of the quests in Odus where you took a lot of damage and instant-died from mispressing.Pressing the stop button is not going to affect this much at all if the item only is finished near the top level of the durability/progress meter. Then people cannot cheat by stopping it. Many recipes already have it like this to prevent quick-crafting. Only works on some recipes.It could also have slower crafting debuffs, mana drains, mana drains on random nearby crafters, knockback, etc if you fail to counter the event. Not only instant death.There is no mythical crafting gear right now as far as I know, so this would be a nice way to implement one. If the end armor is comprised of 9 different parts, one for each class, and these can be comissioned, it would definitely give crafters an incentive to collaborate to get all 9 pieces of that armor. If there are more than one crafting armor piece, they could have different stats too. Three could improve chance of a doublecraft with 1% each (all artisan classes), three other pieces could increase chance to find rare harvest, like in the skilltree (outfitter sets) and the last three armor pieces could have a major critical success chance or chance for triple harvest or something similiar that would make them unique, and actually usable while crafting/harvesting.Anything to make people want all the pieces. Maybe skip the "common items" and go for only "treasured, legendary, fabled" for the recipes/component's tiers or it would be too much of a hassle. But it would definitely be interesting and I believe this has a lot of potential.</blockquote>So why not do the Mara quests? It's very similar to what you are suggesting, which is one of the reasons I don't do them unless I have to. If you want to PQ, go PQ. While I am all for crafted items being among the most sought after in the game, and I do believe crafting should be a viable, equal alternative way to play, crafting and fighting are two different styles and mentalities for a reason. Perhaps instead of going the PQ route, they can take the formula they already have in the Mara style and expand those instances and awards accordingly.

Pixiewrath

09-18-2011, 06:28 PM

Because first and foremost the Mara instances are just that, instances. Just that itself prevents people from grouping in a smooth way. PQs always fill up during peak hours and not much shouting in general chat is required for them.Secondly, those instances has been around for sooo loooong so some refreshing things need to come in-game for crafters.Crafting PQs would work just as great, maybe even better, than combat PQs because it requires cooperation and staying active. The SG PQ requires a bit of that due to the regen of the last named (if that still happens, not done one of them at high level in a while) but the RW one is just spank and tank.And for those that say "It's not for me, I like to solo craft" then just don't do it. Adding it to the game doesn't force those that want to do it, to do it, just like noone is forced into the PQs that are there today. It's always optional.I definitely believe that there are people who would like this feature in-game and that would shout "Awesome!" if it went live.I can imagine the people that do a lot of boxing won't like it though <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

LivelyHound

09-18-2011, 06:50 PM

<cite>Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>How is it even supposed to work, having some 20+ people huddled around stations?</blockquote>Well to be honest 20 people around 7 stations is 3 a station, unlike say a normal raid where you have 23 people stood on one spot pixel up against a wall unable to see squat...Think of the Eastern Wastes othimir village, every two hours the pq spawns and the 7 necessary crafting stations are put out by the othimir to help them repair their village from the Yha-Lei who have been attacking it. Something like that.As to penalities to make the rewards worthwhile, they can include death a la adventuring, money cost by buying fuel and not completing, status loss for being a failure, faction loss with the othimir as you dont save help enough, same for mara faction, xp loss, you can come up with all sorts if you think about it for just two minutes. But then lets face it the only cost to normal pq's is time and death so why should crafting ones be any different?

LivelyHound

09-18-2011, 06:53 PM

<cite>d1anaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>So why not do the Mara quests?</blockquote>Because the rewards are atrocious for the time invested in a nutshell. There was a tradeskill thread a while back in asking for the rewards to be made better, more relevent and more enticing for crafting groups but nothing ever came of it.

Katz

09-18-2011, 08:20 PM

Anything will lose people's interest once they get all the same rewards over and over. Those instances could be updated by adding new loot ever so often. Or by adding in higher level missions with different loot tables. I think crafting public quests could be fun if they were well designed and had loot that is rotated through, so that you don't get all of it after a few goes.Heck, just adding rares and scarce items as rewards every now and again could get some interest by me.

Pixiewrath

09-18-2011, 09:33 PM

Rares could work if they are just that, rare, so there won't be inflation on them. But it would be nice if the rares in that case also ranged from 0-9 to 80-89 tiers so it's not a guarantee that it will always be the uber rares dropping.The reason to have these PCQs is that you should have one chance for a rare (very very slim), one recipe unique for your class (no-trade), and one of the "myth" crafting gear components.If every class had like 15-20 different individual recipes to loot it would definitely add some variety.Weapon, armorsmiths, woodworkers and tailors could loot appearance gear recipes.Carpenters should have the furniture of course(I really love my furniture, lol)Provisioners and alchemists could get illusion recipes, possibly consumable crafting buff potions too (success chance)Jewelers and sages get pet recipes, and possibly other kinds of consumable crafting buff gemstones (durability chance)That way they will have something people will buy because it's rare and not uber and stat-imbalanced.Rare pets, furniture and illusions are never wrong, and those in turn could use rare harvests to be created. Throw in one extremely rare mount for each archetype (3 in total) in the loot chance too and you have a winner.As it is now I have little to strive for in the way of crafting gear, because I never equip it anyway. Too much of a hassle to unequip all my normal gear for gear I don't recognize doing anything special. With some myth crafting gear with noticable differences, it would take things to a new level. The only piece of crafting gear I really have a use for at the moment is the Solstice Earring because of the speed buff.

Questall

09-18-2011, 10:02 PM

rares, except for the spell and ca update rares, have lost all their meaning for me, to be honest. Since the revamp all mc gear is now utterly crap, so rares for making armor...not worth it to me anymore.Rare house items and maybe even a prestige house would interest, rare recipes, gear that would intensify ur chance on crafting without using resources, portable craftstations, mounts, gimme that and i never go to sleep again:p

gourdon

09-18-2011, 11:10 PM

<cite>Katz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Anything will lose people's interest once they get all the same rewards over and over. Those instances could be updated by adding new loot ever so often. Or by adding in higher level missions with different loot tables. I think crafting public quests could be fun if they were well designed and had loot that is rotated through, so that you don't get all of it after a few goes.Heck, just adding rares and scarce items as rewards every now and again could get some interest by me.</blockquote>They added Thurgadin and Ry'Gorr crafting books to them when DoV came out and had similar updates for Sentinel's Fate previously. They could have done more though.

LivelyHound

09-18-2011, 11:43 PM

<cite>Katz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Heck, just adding rares and scarce items as rewards every now and again could get some interest by me.</blockquote>Really? Rares?On my main harvester I had 15 lvl 60-69 rares in 20 mins yesterday. With the new aa for it all the dbl harvest and currently available skill rares really arnt rare anymore. The last set of runs I did in top tier for rares before the new aa I was at an average of 12 rares in the hour. At present rare rates in low level tiers are insanely high, except for cobalt which hates me grrr...I'm all for crafting Pq's but they have to avoid the mistakes they made in creating the group crafting instances. Expressly, the lack of useful rewards.For those asking for a crafting mythical, I have a question, what exactly are the sorts of effects you would like to see on them?

d1anaw

09-19-2011, 12:13 AM

<cite>LivelyHound wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>d1anaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>So why not do the Mara quests?</blockquote>Because the rewards are atrocious for the time invested in a nutshell. There was a tradeskill thread a while back in asking for the rewards to be made better, more relevent and more enticing for crafting groups but nothing ever came of it.</blockquote>Then that's where the focus needs to be. Improve those things that we already have. Improve the items we make so that we are wanted and needed. Improve the rewards for the things that are already in place and add new ones. You don't need to re-invent the wheel, you just need to update it.

d1anaw

09-19-2011, 12:17 AM

<cite>gourdon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Katz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Anything will lose people's interest once they get all the same rewards over and over. Those instances could be updated by adding new loot ever so often. Or by adding in higher level missions with different loot tables. I think crafting public quests could be fun if they were well designed and had loot that is rotated through, so that you don't get all of it after a few goes.Heck, just adding rares and scarce items as rewards every now and again could get some interest by me.</blockquote>They added Thurgadin and Ry'Gorr crafting books to them when DoV came out and had similar updates for Sentinel's Fate previously. They could have done more though.</blockquote>The problem with the DOV armor is that it takes a ridiculous amount of tokens to make them and anyone can make them if they complete the quest to get the books. This would have been the ideal opportunity to increase the status of tailors, armorers and even jewelers, but no, they gave the ability to everyone, thus blurring even further the lines between the tradeskills and diluting their usefulness even more.

d1anaw

09-19-2011, 12:20 AM

<cite>LivelyHound wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Katz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Heck, just adding rares and scarce items as rewards every now and again could get some interest by me.</blockquote>Really? Rares?On my main harvester I had 15 lvl 60-69 rares in 20 mins yesterday. With the new aa for it all the dbl harvest and currently available skill rares really arnt rare anymore. The last set of runs I did in top tier for rares before the new aa I was at an average of 12 rares in the hour. At present rare rates in low level tiers are insanely high, except for cobalt which hates me grrr...I'm all for crafting Pq's but they have to avoid the mistakes they made in creating the group crafting instances. Expressly, the lack of useful rewards.For those asking for a crafting mythical, I have a question, what exactly are the sorts of effects you would like to see on them?</blockquote>Good question. We have the earring, we have the prayer shawl. It's like some people want to turn crafting into raiding. If you want to raid, go raid. Don't try to turn everything into a raid.

Pixiewrath

09-19-2011, 07:30 AM

<cite>LivelyHound wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Katz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Heck, just adding rares and scarce items as rewards every now and again could get some interest by me.</blockquote>Really? Rares?On my main harvester I had 15 lvl 60-69 rares in 20 mins yesterday. With the new aa for it all the dbl harvest and currently available skill rares really arnt rare anymore. The last set of runs I did in top tier for rares before the new aa I was at an average of 12 rares in the hour. At present rare rates in low level tiers are insanely high, except for cobalt which hates me grrr...I'm all for crafting Pq's but they have to avoid the mistakes they made in creating the group crafting instances. Expressly, the lack of useful rewards.For those asking for a crafting mythical, I have a question, what exactly are the sorts of effects you would like to see on them?</blockquote>I am pretty sure I mentioned that already.But if you missed it, one set (Craftsmen) could be 0,5 - 1% double product chance per piece (total 1.5 % - 3% with all pieces)One set (Outfitters) could have a 1% chance for triple harvests on their 3 total pieces (3% total with all).The last set (Scholars) could increase chance for rare harvests by 0.5% each (1.5% total).To get a complete set you would need all 9 pieces (maybe a set bonus for that?) and to get those you would need to have 1 piece created yourself and 8 other pieces comission crafted (no-trade items).

Katz

09-19-2011, 07:38 AM

<cite>LivelyHound wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Katz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Heck, just adding rares and scarce items as rewards every now and again could get some interest by me.</blockquote>Really? Rares?On my main harvester I had 15 lvl 60-69 rares in 20 mins yesterday. With the new aa for it all the dbl harvest and currently available skill rares really arnt rare anymore. The last set of runs I did in top tier for rares before the new aa I was at an average of 12 rares in the hour. At present rare rates in low level tiers are insanely high, except for cobalt which hates me grrr...I'm all for crafting Pq's but they have to avoid the mistakes they made in creating the group crafting instances. Expressly, the lack of useful rewards.For those asking for a crafting mythical, I have a question, what exactly are the sorts of effects you would like to see on them?</blockquote>At least rares can be used to make something useful or even sold. More useful than the same crafting book or jewelry over and over.

Deveryn

09-19-2011, 08:57 AM

<cite>d1anaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem with the DOV armor is that it takes a ridiculous amount of tokens to make them and anyone can make them if they complete the quest to get the books. This would have been the ideal opportunity to increase the status of tailors, armorers and even jewelers, but no, they gave the ability to everyone, thus blurring even further the lines between the tradeskills and diluting their usefulness even more.</blockquote>So, what ideas do you have for this?

d1anaw

09-19-2011, 03:10 PM

<cite>Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>d1anaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem with the DOV armor is that it takes a ridiculous amount of tokens to make them and anyone can make them if they complete the quest to get the books. This would have been the ideal opportunity to increase the status of tailors, armorers and even jewelers, but no, they gave the ability to everyone, thus blurring even further the lines between the tradeskills and diluting their usefulness even more.</blockquote>So, what ideas do you have for this?</blockquote>I've said it before. Jewelers should make jewelry, armorers should make armor, alchemists should make potions and dusts, etc, sages should make spells, etc. I hate my carpenter recipe book being cluttered with jewelry and armor when I refuse to use my carpenter to make jewelry and armor. At the same time I hate my jeweler being forced to make spells over jewelry because there are very few pieces of jewelry to make at lower levels. What is the point of having a specialization if everyone is going to make everything? I'd rather see crafted items be the most sought after and made by those who specialize in the field. I believe in the long run it would be a benefit for everyone.

LivelyHound

09-19-2011, 10:11 PM

<cite>d1anaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>LivelyHound wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>d1anaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>So why not do the Mara quests?</blockquote>Because the rewards are atrocious for the time invested in a nutshell. There was a tradeskill thread a while back in asking for the rewards to be made better, more relevent and more enticing for crafting groups but nothing ever came of it.</blockquote>Then that's where the focus needs to be. Improve those things that we already have. Improve the items we make so that we are wanted and needed. Improve the rewards for the things that are already in place and add new ones. You don't need to re-invent the wheel, you just need to update it.</blockquote>We tried to get the crafting instances improved but nothing ever came of that thread. I agree with you that that's where improvements need to be made but we tried that and so this idea came up instead. Incidentally there was a thread about crafting PQ's on the tradeskill forums started quite a while ago by Meirril. Nothing came of that either. I also agree with your last comment about who should make what and specialisation but I can't see the dev's changing the status quo regarding the best crafted items going to single classes as opposed to using geomancy as we do now.To Katz: Yeah rares can at least be usefull the trouble is if you make them one of the primary rewards for something like a pq or crafting instance then no one will run either as your time is better spent just out harvesting. As a bonus loot sure but the primary rewards need to be substantial, which is the big reason the group instances fail. The best reward is the book but you get it once and your done, same for the spoon/pin and then the best rewards are rares,,, so your better off just harvesting once you have your books and pin.To TommyDaGreat: musta missed that post about what rewards you want to see, thanks for the repetition. The craftsmen set you listed wouldn't thrill me because most of the time you see a proc like that is going to be on a craft that basically doesnt count, like a rush writ combine. For those few times it procs on something nice like a ry'gorr armour combine you end up with an Heirloom item that you have to hope you have a toon that can use. Imagine do combine for a random zerker , proc goes off, you end up with a lvl 90 heirloom zerk legs and you're a fury <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> The times seeing that proc go off that would be useful would be when making MC armour or Experts. The other times would be when making consumables... but that then heavily favours a few crafting classes that already are heavily favoured in there products.The outfitter set for triple harvest, well I don't honestly need more raws <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> and rares have become insanely easy to get recently, which is why the scholars set is also not thrilling. But if you couple the outfitters set and the scholars set your going to be pulling rares at astronomical amounts. In a nutshell harvesting is already out of control. I would take all those items given the chance, but for a mythical/fabled tradeskill item/set that is going to be time consuming and difficult to get I would like to see somethign truely valuable. For the base items in your set, personally I would prefer a chance to proc crit success's or just a flat +%crit success. Or how about effects like : causes each combine to start with +50 progress. Or clicky : recast 10 mins, adds +500 progress +200 durability.As for giving a truely worthwhile effect, make it that you need a complete set and with all 9 items you gain a set bonus that is decent. For instance, how about a clicky effect: causes one top level dungeon rare to be placed in inventory, recast 1 week. Or clicky: conserve all materials and auto complete combine, recast 1 per week.One of the problems with the Shawl was that they gave it Brells. It gives everything back and thus they can't really split out the effects anymore into returns wood, returns roots etc as seen by the addition of CoM. The original items I came up with for crafting way back in the mists of time when asked by Domino to do so had the effects seperated out. They can be found in the thread I mentioned at the top that was about improving the group instances:<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=498244">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=498244</a>Just remember I made those items up when the group crafting instances were first released and would need some tweaking. In that same thread are a list of item effects that could be put on things, and a list of items that Meirril came up with that crafters might want/enjoy. There is also a small discussion about the fact that crafting is easy and what could be done.All in all unless they add in some truely difficult form of crafting non of his matters a hill of beans because without difficult crafting the rewards we can get as crafters are always going to be trivial.

Pixiewrath

09-20-2011, 07:55 AM

<cite>d1anaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>d1anaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem with the DOV armor is that it takes a ridiculous amount of tokens to make them and anyone can make them if they complete the quest to get the books. This would have been the ideal opportunity to increase the status of tailors, armorers and even jewelers, but no, they gave the ability to everyone, thus blurring even further the lines between the tradeskills and diluting their usefulness even more.</blockquote>So, what ideas do you have for this?</blockquote>I've said it before. Jewelers should make jewelry, armorers should make armor, alchemists should make potions and dusts, etc, sages should make spells, etc. I hate my carpenter recipe book being cluttered with jewelry and armor when I refuse to use my carpenter to make jewelry and armor. At the same time I hate my jeweler being forced to make spells over jewelry because there are very few pieces of jewelry to make at lower levels. What is the point of having a specialization if everyone is going to make everything? I'd rather see crafted items be the most sought after and made by those who specialize in the field. I believe in the long run it would be a benefit for everyone.</blockquote>The biggest problem with this is that people that make spells and furniture will be left behind if it works like this because they will never be as sought after as armor/weapons/jewelry... Also, remember that spells cannot be added because they already in-game. Unless they are gonna revamp every single class just to be able to get more spells.I imagine that when/if the cap gets raised to lvl 100 sometimes, we will see more of these class unique stuff being craftable again, because it will introduce new levels of spells and higher level needs of potions etc...I don't have anything against crafting some armor and weapons etc. with my carpenter sometimes, but I think they should divide the things you can craft a bit so that people indeed get more uniqueness.

Pixiewrath

09-20-2011, 08:05 AM

@LivelyHoundYou do have a point about the chance of double-crafting on heirloom items. But maybe if we do a double craft on them we can get the option to add it to a trade window, just like when we loot no-loot/heirloom items in dungeons tradeable for 48 hours.That way the item can still be sold to anyone withing 48 hours (not brokered though). Once the trade is done or time has elapsed, the tradeable tag goes away.Since these things can be comission crafted anyway, it's obvious they are supposed to be "traded", but not flooded on the broker. So doing it like this would allow you to sell it anyway without getting clutter on the broker.

Gladiolus

09-20-2011, 08:53 AM

This might work on servers with huge crafting communities, such as Antonia Bayle and even the Test server but 20 crafters at once? I don't know if I'd find 20 crafters in a month. People ask for a week on end just to find someone to make a set of armour. Will the crafters on those servers then be penalised?

Pixiewrath

09-20-2011, 01:12 PM

I just ate tacos.I play on the Bazaar server, and it is very low populated, but the fact is that a lot of people have alts just for crafting or craft with their "normal" alts. They just stay hidden because they are doing other things sometimes and because they don't have something to unite them like PQs. Before the combat PQs most cities were barren too, and people only hung out in their guild halls and the general chat.Even on smaller servers there are definitely crafters hanging around so I don't think it would be a problem. And it will not be much of a penalty if you can loot tresured/legendary versions of the myth gear components that you can combine to the next tier. Take longer time, yes, but you can still do it.We still haven't finished the Dragon Ring on The Bazaar but even if it takes time, it's getting there.It's a shame there are so few people on some servers but you can't design a game based on minoritiess. In all due honesty though, I would be perfectly content if they merged all PVP and PVE servers into two separate servers only and kept it at that. This game doesn't need all these servers, they need population. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />But that is another subject. Like I said, smaller pop servers would be slower and might have problems with some of the rarer recipes, but there isn't much to do about that other than recruit more crafters/players to the server.

Gwyrdd

09-21-2011, 01:03 PM

Although I adventure too, crafting is my first love in EQ2. (1,000+ combines a month, on average, I suppose I'm nuts.) I am all for more group crafting opportunities, and setups that make some of them easier. (PQ's are great for that.) Proof of the Pudding and What Dreams May Come have been really satisfying experiences for me, and even if I did have to beat the bushes to round up an armorer for our team on the latter when Velious first launched, that was part of the fun.I met my best friend in the game through crafting. Most of my friends list has been populated through crafting acquaintances. In general, the crafty types seem to be the nicest sorts I meet outside my very cozy guild of friends. Always happy to open up that list further.I see a lot of comments that the Far Seas Supply Division group quests need to be changed. I like seeing the reward drops and Far Seas Innovation lists added to here and there, but I honestly think they're just fine for what they are.New group crafting experiences, on the other hand, could introduce more flavor, more variety, and some fun opportunities. People ask, reasonably, what the rewards might be. There's a lot of "we don't need more artisan recipes" and I can go along with that. Class specific recipes sound not too bad. They could be similar to the faction recipe books, with one or two distinctive recipes each (and a few recipe books per profession on the list to keep us coming back for more). In that scenario, let us not forget the secondary tradeskills. I'd include Tinkering and Adorning recipes in the mix. (Adorning needs love. How's about some special 400-450 adorning recipes for some sort of yellow adornments? Or just funky ones that don't match the standard available sets per tier. I'd go out of my way to add a new version of choice for what I can make to slot into a chest piece. How about some Crafting Specific adornments? I've got a bag full of gear I swap out to when I get serious about crafting. Three pieces are ornate. The rest have adornment slots. Hmmm.)How about some cosmetically interesting house item crafting stations? I'd work hard for a novel woodworking table even if it had no mechanical benefit. I've seen other threads where folks request things like a personal fuel depot. Recipes for same, or the actual item, could be good rewards in a new group crafting thing. How about opportunities for crafters to acquire those Frozen Shards of Magic and similar fuels that a non-adventuring crafter won't normally see? And so on.I agree with the "death is not the only form of challenge" sentiment. It's really not. Difficult combines with a time limit seem a good route. Have the recipes use components harvested from the surrounding environment, make the components LORE. Failure would then require taking precious time to get more.Anyway, that's a few too many thoughts flung in with a lot of good ideas here. Would love to see more, new, group crafting challenges. I'd do them just for fun even without the rewards, because I like crafting itself and its community potential. But there's still room for nice new rewards too.