So what is the "new" subclass tree meant to achieve?

[Nijia]

<p>1)  The tiers are not clear at all, except the expertises which are linked together.</p><p><a href="http://eq2.zam.com/Im/Image/204031">http://eq2.zam.com/Im/Image/204031</a></p><p>Oh, it's horizontal I get it. YMMV. To me it looks like ayou throw a bunch of pebbles and there's little connection to be seen. principles of basic design ftw: alignment & proximity..</p><p>2) The web actually looked cool, this is boring.</p><p>3)  What's the purpose? To no ever spend a single AA in something you don't think you'll need? Isn't that a basic of game design, that you make choices? Advantages come with disadvantages? It's not like you had to spend a lot of AA to get what you want.</p><p>I'm honestly wondering. What exactly is better with the new layout of the AA tree?  I don't see it on my 65 Dirge but maybe its a level 90 thing ?</p>

[Morghus]

<p>You no longer are forced to put points into abilities that were absolutely worthless in order to put points into what you really wanted to increase.</p>

[darwich]

how about a real aa revamp where there are NO worthless AA's... hrmmm that would be to ingenious to comprehend apparently..

[Spite]

<p>I find myself spending just as many wasted points. In order to unlock the lowest tier you must spend 70 points in the tree which on all of my lvl 90 characters (6 lvl 90s) means buying subpar AAs.</p><p>Also the concept that if they are pretty worthless (in all playstyles) why are they in the tree anyway seems to have escaped the Devs?</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>darwich wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>how about a real aa revamp where there are NO worthless AA's... hrmmm that would be to ingenious to comprehend apparently..</blockquote><p>Impossible with PVP, solo, group and raid dynamics all being different.</p>

[Aethn]

<p><cite>darwich wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>how about a real aa revamp where there are NO worthless AA's... hrmmm that would be to ingenious to comprehend apparently..</blockquote><p>Every game has 'fluff' to spend "progress" on (be it AA, skills or other abilities), I challenge you to show me one game that does not.</p>

[Nrgy]

<p>With the removal of the 'webbing' in the class tab I was able to save 3-5 points from over the pre-GU61 webbing.  The "new" part is you are forced to choose usless AA's where before you were forced to take them.  A very lack-luster update for the effort, assuming any effort was used at all in the first place.</p><p>That will be less then game changing.</p>

[JazzMaus]

<p><cite>Nijia@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What exactly is better with the new layout of the AA tree?</p></blockquote><p>My 36 Troubie will not have to waste points on AAs I hate, in order to enhance JC & PotM. That change alone makes the subclass tree revamp worth my time.</p>

[Nijia]

<p><cite>Persyphony@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>darwich wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>how about a real aa revamp where there are NO worthless AA's... hrmmm that would be to ingenious to comprehend apparently..</blockquote><p>Every game has 'fluff' to spend "progress" on (be it AA, skills or other abilities), I challenge you to show me one game that does not.</p></blockquote><p>Exactly. One might as well remove all the fluff classes!</p><p>If those skills were utility for specific situations, at least they are there and you might be encouraged to try something different. See what you can do with it.</p><p>Having completely "useless" skills is one thing, having never to spend points into something assumed to be "subpar" is another.</p>

[Nrgy]

<p><cite>JazzMaus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nijia@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What exactly is better with the new layout of the AA tree?</p></blockquote><p>My 36 Troubie will not have to waste points on AAs I hate, in order to enhance JC & PotM. That change alone makes the subclass tree revamp worth my time.</p></blockquote><p>Come back and tell us what you think when you get to level 71 ... assuming >101 AA's.</p><p>You cannot get 3 'Expertise' abilities without wasting AA on terrible AA's (forced to spend 63).  You can't get into SF (forced to spend 70) or Endline abilities (forced to spend 80) without wasting more on terrible AA's.</p><p>If I only took what was useful and what I wanted I'd only be spending 85ish in the class tab not the 93-97 I'm forced to.</p><p>I HATE spending 5 AA's to get less then a 30% casting speed improvment ... 0.1 sec reduction per AA is just plain silly.</p>

[Alenna]

<p><cite>Cruckin@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I find myself spending just as many wasted points. In order to unlock the lowest tier you must spend 70 points in the tree which on all of my lvl 90 characters (6 lvl 90s) means buying subpar AAs.</p><p>Also the concept that if they are pretty worthless (in all playstyles) why are they in the tree anyway seems to have escaped the Devs?</p></blockquote><p>ON the contrary I can now spend AA in a ability I couldn't before because it was not in the part of the web that led to the expertise I needed. so it does not mean  buying subpar AAs it means I have more choices then I did before.</p>

[Alenna]

<p><cite>JazzMaus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nijia@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What exactly is better with the new layout of the AA tree?</p></blockquote><p>My 36 Troubie will not have to waste points on AAs I hate, in order to enhance JC & PotM. That change alone makes the subclass tree revamp worth my time.</p></blockquote><p>^^^this same same with other classes also.</p>

[Wilin]

<p>I have to say that I like it.</p><p>Put 5 points in each tier to unlock the next tier and everyone has something desirable in each tier. At that point, you have a canvas and can do whatever you want in the tree. And the endlines open as you handpick your AA . That's awesome. At some point, you may reach the point where you want another endline and have to spend more points, but AGAIN, you spend them however you choose unlike the old system.</p><p>What's not to like?</p>

[Ahlana]

<p><cite>Wilin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have to say that I like it.</p><p>Put 5 points in each tier to unlock the next tier and everyone has something desirable in each tier. At that point, you have a canvas and can do whatever you want in the tree. And the endlines open as you handpick your AA . That's awesome. At some point, you may reach the point where you want another endline and have to spend more points, but AGAIN, you spend them however you choose unlike the old system.</p><p>What's not to like?</p></blockquote><p>I guess there is the choice.. but in the end in order to get the endlines I wanted I had to picked 10-15ish... crappy AAs anyways. The only difference was I got to pick which crappy AAs instead of them being forced as part of the web. However I am not going to lie it was hard to pick which ones were less "Crappy" than the others lol</p>

[urgthock]

<p>I just wish they would give this same treatment to the Subclass AA tree.</p>

[Xalmat]

<p>There's a difference between getting useless AAs because there's no other choice, and getting useless AAs because of the need for filler. The Subclass tree before GU61 was the former, and the Subclass tree after GU61 is the latter.</p><p>Personally I prefer the latter.</p>

[Lortet]

<p>any possible improvement - and I am not seeing much - is totally and utterly wiped out by the loss of the shadow tree to sub lvl 50's - that being 17 of my 19 alts.</p>

[Tigress]

<p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You no longer are forced to put points into abilities that were absolutely worthless in order to put points into what you really wanted to increase.</p></blockquote><p>i wish that they would take it one step further and do the same for the class tree.</p>

[Tigress]

<p><cite>Hykaree@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>any possible improvement - and I am not seeing much - is totally and utterly wiped out by the loss of the shadow tree to sub lvl 50's - that being 17 of my 19 alts.</p></blockquote><p>as you can see in my signature, i agree (to a degree).  row one of the shadows tree should be unlocked at level 10.</p>

[Tigress]

<p><cite>urgthock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just wish they would give this same treatment to the Subclass AA tree.</p></blockquote><p>perhaps you mean class tree, as we are discussing the subclass tree <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p>

[JazzMaus]

<p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You cannot get 3 'Expertise' abilities without wasting AA on terrible AA's (forced to spend 63). </p></blockquote><p>I realize that, but I wasn't saying that the new web-less tree is perfect; I was saying rather that the improvement which has been made is well worth my time. I stand by that, & will deal with future issues in the future.</p><p>& also what Xalmat said.</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>Nijia@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm honestly wondering. What exactly is better with the new layout of the AA tree?  I don't see it on my 65 Dirge but maybe its a level 90 thing ? </p></blockquote><p>My 57 Dirge has more options /shrug  For example, with Degrede and Luck of the Dirge endlines, I can still improve my rez amount.  Plus, I'm not forced to spend any points in Enhance: Shroud or Enhance: Murderous Rake.</p><p>The only way I can see people not liking the new setup is if you were in the minority who found the webbing interesting.  Or I guess if change in general is just uncomfortable for you.</p>

[carpe_caminus]

<p><cite>darwich wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>how about a real aa revamp where there are NO worthless AA's... hrmmm that would be to ingenious to comprehend apparently..</blockquote><p>QFE</p>

[retro_guy]

<p><cite>Persyphony@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>darwich wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>how about a real aa revamp where there are NO worthless AA's... hrmmm that would be to ingenious to comprehend apparently..</blockquote><p>Every game has 'fluff' to spend "progress" on (be it AA, skills or other abilities), I challenge you to show me one game that does not.</p></blockquote><p>Tennis.</p>

[Cjracerma]

<p>I agree, when are the class trees gonna see this same love. For example do you know how many bards either dont have a BD spec, or have 1 and despise it. That is because the BD tree is mostly undesirable, compared to the other choices. Where as if you had the same treatment you have in sub-class tree, 2 AA as compared to 22 would make BD spec not so painful.  And yes at some point in either instance you have to pick some useless AAs, but at least you can get ALL the ones you want without worrying about endlines.</p>

[Nijia]

<p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nijia@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm honestly wondering. What exactly is better with the new layout of the AA tree?  I don't see it on my 65 Dirge but maybe its a level 90 thing ? </p></blockquote><p>My 57 Dirge has more options /shrug  For example, with Degrede and Luck of the Dirge endlines, I can still improve my rez amount.  Plus, I'm not forced to spend any points in Enhance: Shroud or Enhance: Murderous Rake.</p><p>The only way I can see people not liking the new setup is if you were in the minority who found the webbing interesting.  Or I guess if change in general is just uncomfortable for you.</p></blockquote><p>AFAIK , Enhance Shroud can reduce the time just enough that when you solo you can stun a mob, go behind and launch Scream of Death, and still use Bump to chain Misfortune's Kiss and Daro. Though to be honest I don't bother with SoD when I solo... wayyyyy too many skills.</p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Nrgy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>JazzMaus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nijia@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What exactly is better with the new layout of the AA tree?</p></blockquote><p>My 36 Troubie will not have to waste points on AAs I hate, in order to enhance JC & PotM. That change alone makes the subclass tree revamp worth my time.</p></blockquote><p>Come back and tell us what you think when you get to level 71 ... assuming >101 AA's.</p><p>You cannot get 3 'Expertise' abilities without wasting AA on terrible AA's (forced to spend 63).  You can't get into SF (forced to spend 70) or Endline abilities (forced to spend 80) without wasting more on terrible AA's.</p><p>If I only took what was useful and what I wanted I'd only be spending 85ish in the class tab not the 93-97 I'm forced to.</p><p>I HATE spending 5 AA's to get less then a 30% casting speed improvment ... 0.1 sec reduction per AA is just plain silly.</p></blockquote><p>Gonna be fair, if all the AAs were useful you'd be forced to forgo something useful that your group/raid wants in order to get something else your group/raid wants and end up with your group/raid dictating what you did take because someone else took the other.</p>