Do not go live with these item changes... [Archive]

Kunaak

08-23-2011, 04:38 PM

over the last few weeks seeing these changes, its clear no ones really double checking these changes, and often the changes lead to some puzzling or infuriating results.gear is changes from being usable for 1 class to a whole new class - primary stats are wrong on tons of items, and today, I see that SF raid gear is all screwed up - and was homogenized to conform to DOV stats - so now nothing anywhere has crit or DA on it, not even that old SF jewelry I been keeping around.to top it off, theres a ton of SF raid items that just seemed to be nerfed from whatever this script was from today - like the BPs from 4RT are all messed up, all my T3 old tank armor is completly missing on its old primary stats of crit and DA, items I got off Ark - Waansu - Saalax - Construct - all seem messed up, cause the stats are so "throw everything at it - hope no one complains".this should not go live as is - cause its clear now, the job is far to big to be left automated, and this idea that nothing should have crit or MA doesnt do anything more then nerf otherwise awesome gear that alot of us worked very hard to get, and we keep it around for a reason...things from as low as scion of ice, right up to master yael, are now all screwed up - and we got less then a day and a half till this goes live.dont let this go live... the changes are too massive, and theres far too much gear thats just not right, and been nerfed as a side effect of using scripts to change gear, and things we reported on a month ago, are still in the game all messed up, like tank gear with mage procs, and healer gear with 15+ blue stats, old gear with more crit mit then current gear, ect.

Morghus

08-23-2011, 04:40 PM

<cite>Morghus wrote:</cite><blockquote>This feels like an impending mistake, even greater than leaving the items as they are now. Like a giant train-wreck waiting to happen. I have a feeling the results will be unsatisfactory to the people asking for it, and will end up being a huge waste of time as they break and refix it several times until a compromise is made. And I'm not talking about a satisfactory compromise, I am talking about a "omg stop, we'll take it...just stop trying to fix it" compromise.</blockquote>Would it be in poor taste to say, I totally <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=25&topic_id=502066�" target="_blank">called</a> it?

Gaige

08-23-2011, 04:43 PM

The thought that the team could actually change all the stat mechanics, all the itemization and everything else they're attempting to do in this GU without it going live and breaking numerous things for months at a time is extremely silly.I get that SJ loves his horrible auto script for everything in the game that he refuses to understand causes players to absolutely hate the current itemization but the reality is they're biting off way more than they can chew.They can barely launch instances with working mechanics and loot tables tbh~Most of GU61 needs to either be delayed or outright scrapped, similiar to the fighter balancing stuff that never actually happened.

acctlc

08-23-2011, 04:45 PM

AA revamps aren't getting the attention they deserve either. We were promised a feedback driven process and so far short of only a few tweaks I'm just not feeling it. It was silly to try and push this all live at one update. This update should have been split and the xpac release left til February when most expected it. It feels like we're getting xpac content now and its just not ready guys.

Yimway

08-23-2011, 04:46 PM

I have to agree with the rest of the negative nancys here.They do not have the QA resources to pull this off without falling on their face. Too much is changing too fast to deliver anything close to quality.

Gaige

08-23-2011, 04:48 PM

<cite>Arieva@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>AA revamps</blockquote>It was never an AA revamp, I asked Xelgad about it~They just removed the webbing and made it more like the heroic tree. That's it. It wasn't supposed to be a total revamp for every class of that particular tree.

Raviel

08-23-2011, 04:53 PM

gotta agree with the post, the horrible auto script is just ruining itemization gamewide. even the few pieces of gear i kept from last expansion is being ruined to the point where theres better stats out of drops in pools, many of the changes make no sense whatsoever. Procs being added to heroic items are cool, but theyre also way OP. Itemization this expansion has been the most boring ever, wake up and realize its because of your stupid script

Kunaak

08-23-2011, 04:59 PM

another example I just came across.while technically I like it, I can see how it would basically kill off questing in DOV.now the old void shard merchants in Moors - the set bonuses on that gear + the stat changes, why would anyone quest in DOV for starter gear, when that gear is now signifigantly better for a low geared player?if I was running through with a new alt, this is where I would find the best gear for the toon, till I could get Rygoor.some of the set bonuses are off, like scout gear that offers +10 INT and STR for the 2 set bonus, but over all, the void shard merchant gear is now better then any quested DOV gear.the same goes for the armor.I am glad to see TSO gear getting the change, but I can also see how those changes make everything in the starter zones of DOV useless.

Maroger

08-23-2011, 04:59 PM

Some of the quested gear is now better that E-Z mode raid gear vis-a-vis the blue stats and that should not be the case.

Talathion

08-23-2011, 05:03 PM

<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote>Some of the quested gear is now better that E-Z mode raid gear vis-a-vis the blue stats and that should not be the case.</blockquote>HM/EM/Rygorr need blue stats added to them.

LardLord

08-23-2011, 05:03 PM

Agreed. Delay this patch for a few more weeks, possibly scrap some of the more complicated and less useful changes, and we'll be much better off.

acctlc

08-23-2011, 05:15 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arieva@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>AA revamps</blockquote>It was never an AA revamp. They just removed the webbing and made it more like the heroic tree. That's it. It wasn't supposed to be a total revamp for every class of that particular tree.Also SJ is too proud to scrap this GU. He'd rather force it live and ruin the game than admit trying to do all of this in one GU with EQ2's tiny overworked team is too much.</blockquote>Well maybe not for "everyone" it really deserves the term but it was in fact used as the term at fanfaire and if you look at how much has changed for summoners..it really was. Complete with a red name in our thread saying each and every aa was subject to feedback and could be tweaked, to the point where the community was relatively happy. That was a month ago and the last red name comment there was, tweaks have been few and far between.

Yimway

08-23-2011, 05:16 PM

What gets me the most about GU61 is they revamped all gear except DoV when it was DoV gear that needed the revamp.

Gungo

08-23-2011, 05:19 PM

Dont forget they kind of needed to do an item revamp after they made nearly all the old gear useles with DOV mechanics changes.I think the bottom line is they needed more time to adjust some older itemization to find any issues and to include some of the new stats on the DOV gear they are implementing in GU61.But honestly they just needed to combine spell and melee stats instead of having sperate stats for everything.

Kunaak

08-23-2011, 05:25 PM

I am not saying scrap the GU.I am saying, do not include this items portion in the GU - or atleast, minimize the item change, so you up the DOV Heroic gear, as thats really really badly needed as this is the least interesting expansion I've seen in this game as far as heroic content goes.but leave 100% of the SF / TSO raid and heroic instance gear changes out.cause its overwhelmingly clear, this is not being done right, and this is one massive disaster as is.

daray

08-23-2011, 05:30 PM

In short, they are trying to do too much too quickly.These changes should have been implemented one tier at time, starting from the high levels and working downwards, ensuring that each tier is complete and correct before moving onto the next level tier down.Using a script to mass-automate it is fine, as long as there is the QA process in place to verify that the script is doing as it should (and really, all fabled / raid-dropped items should be verified by hand).

slippery

08-23-2011, 05:32 PM

There are 3 GU's worth of things going on here (maybe if they could be 2 month GU's instead of 3 it would work better....) Itemization, AA changes, and cap changes. Nothing is getting the attention it deserves. Itemization is not even remotely close to being ready to see game. It can't be done correctly with a script. There are far too many variables and things to consider that just aren't even on the table. Some where along the ways we seem to have forgot that itemization is what makes this game. The entire purpose of the game is about bettering your character through itemization. When you make it all the same, you take that away. That means you take away farming. What exactly is the game about then? What does it have left? AA's could use a lot more attention. There are a lot of them useless, and the KoS tree should be getting looked at at the same time. There are still plenty of AA's that could use attention in the EoF tree because they are far from useful. The stat overcap changes really haven't had any attention at all when in some cases the curves are just simply absurd. This basically got thrown on test with a this is how it is going to be and was taken off the radar. It's just too much. This is LU13 part 2.

daray

08-23-2011, 05:39 PM

<cite>slippery wrote:</cite><blockquote>AA's could use a lot more attention. There are a lot of them useless, and the KoS tree should be getting looked at at the same time. There are still plenty of AA's that could use attention in the EoF tree because they are far from useful. </blockquote>Though this is kind of going off-topic from this thread, I completely agree with this bit. I've said it before, but to stop large numbers of AAs becoming obsolete/diminished over time, the AA system needs to be re-designed from the ground up - and, in many cases, attributes gained through AAs need to be multiplicative (in the form of a new multiplier) instead of additive to some current multiplier (that continues to grow seeminly exponentially through gear). This would allow the AA system to grow with the game, rather than being side-lined by gear-inflation.

Sigmaz01

08-23-2011, 05:43 PM

Yea this GU is really not ready for live release! I really rather wait until its ready to go even if it takes 2 or 3 more months to complete, to get the AAs right and the items done correctly! There is still alot of raiding to do and not many have even cleared the drunder heroic instances or have gotten a full set of the new drunder gear so i would say delay this GU for sure and let us catch up.

LardLord

08-23-2011, 05:47 PM

<cite>slippery wrote:</cite><blockquote>The stat overcap changes really haven't had any attention at all when in some cases the curves are just simply absurd. This basically got thrown on test with a this is how it is going to be and was taken off the radar. </blockquote>Overcap changes and spell auto-attack haven't gotten enough attention. Those are going to affect the game permanently, and they'll probably be a pain to adjust down the road.

Raviel

08-23-2011, 05:48 PM

<cite>slippery wrote:</cite><blockquote>There are 3 GU's worth of things going on here (maybe if they could be 2 month GU's instead of 3 it would work better....) Itemization, AA changes, and cap changes. Nothing is getting the attention it deserves. Itemization is not even remotely close to being ready to see game. It can't be done correctly with a script. There are far too many variables and things to consider that just aren't even on the table. Some where along the ways we seem to have forgot that itemization is what makes this game. The entire purpose of the game is about bettering your character through itemization. When you make it all the same, you take that away. That means you take away farming. What exactly is the game about then? What does it have left? AA's could use a lot more attention. There are a lot of them useless, and the KoS tree should be getting looked at at the same time. There are still plenty of AA's that could use attention in the EoF tree because they are far from useful. The stat overcap changes really haven't had any attention at all when in some cases the curves are just simply absurd. This basically got thrown on test with a this is how it is going to be and was taken off the radar. It's just too much. This is LU13 part 2.</blockquote>qfe

Gaige

08-23-2011, 05:51 PM

They won't meaningfully delay or scrap any of these changes in my opinion. It goes against how SOE has worked since launch. We'll probably end up with a live testing environment and a lot of broken stuff and numerous hotfixes~

daray

08-23-2011, 05:59 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>They won't meaningfully delay or scrap any of these changes in my opinion. It goes against how SOE has worked since launch. We'll probably end up with a live testing environment and a lot of broken stuff and numerous hotfixes~</blockquote>The itemisation portion of this update needs to be delayed. They need to do one tier at a time, and do it correctly before releasing it. Fabled / raid loot in each tier needs to be done manually, because this bit is actually the most important aspect of itemisation in each tier and it needs to be correct and complete.They also need to move a true AA revamp up the priority list. Gear inflation has made much of the AA system obsolete.

Felshades

08-23-2011, 06:00 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>The thought that the team could actually change all the stat mechanics, all the itemization and everything else they're attempting to do in this GU without it going live and breaking numerous things for months at a time is extremely silly.I get that SJ loves his horrible auto script for everything in the game that he refuses to understand causes players to absolutely hate the current itemization but the reality is they're biting off way more than they can chew.They can barely launch instances with working mechanics and loot tables tbh~Most of GU61 needs to either be delayed or outright scrapped, similiar to the fighter balancing stuff that never actually happened.</blockquote>Don't speak for me. Speak for yourself.I like the current itemization.

LardLord

08-23-2011, 06:01 PM

<cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>Don't speak for me. Speak for yourself.I like the current itemization.</blockquote>What do you find appealing about it?

Banditman

08-23-2011, 06:03 PM

<cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>Don't speak for me. Speak for yourself.I like the current itemization.</blockquote>You're the one . . .

Nevao

08-23-2011, 06:09 PM

Whether you like the current itemization path or not (personally I've found it boring now that choice has been removed, but hopefully they're going to fix that by adding procs back in) it has the distinct feel of not being ready for prime time.There's no reason other than pride, or saving face with corporate brass, to release the LU in it's current state. That is unless the dev team really is happy with the itemization issues, AAs that should be reviewed due to lack of usefulness (something that was supposed to be addressed), and thinks the overstat caps are great as-is despite feedback. If they don't see the issues we have a seperate issue.Personally I think that if this goes live on Thursday it's all to look good to the bosses above regardless of what the player base thinks or experiances.

carpe_caminus

08-23-2011, 06:37 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>The thought that the team could actually change all the stat mechanics, all the itemization and everything else they're attempting to do in this GU without it going live and breaking numerous things for months at a time is extremely silly.I get that SJ loves his horrible auto script for everything in the game that he refuses to understand causes players to absolutely hate the current itemization but the reality is they're biting off way more than they can chew.They can barely launch instances with working mechanics and loot tables tbh~Most of GU61 needs to either be delayed or outright scrapped, similiar to the fighter balancing stuff that never actually happened.</blockquote>For once... I agree with Gaige.I think I need to go take a shower now...

Geothe

08-23-2011, 06:57 PM

These itemization changes are snowballing into a bigger and bigger disaster.Yet I have a feeling we shall be seeing them in their ugly glory on Thursday anyways.

Gaige

08-23-2011, 06:57 PM

<cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>I like the current itemization.</blockquote>What, exactly, do you like about the boring cookie cutter itemization which includes being rewarded from harder mobs with items that are .6 pot / .6 bonus and some crit mit better than items 12 people can kill?

DxPreist1

08-23-2011, 07:05 PM

I say push em live, I'll be up early thursday to time how long it takes the forums to crash. Besides the small bugs can be worked on until the Xpak./Cowers under desk waiting for backlash

Deneir_Allaston

08-23-2011, 07:07 PM

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dont forget they kind of needed to do an item revamp after they made nearly all the old gear useles with DOV mechanics changes.I think the bottom line is they needed more time to adjust some older itemization to find any issues and to include some of the new stats on the DOV gear they are implementing in GU61.But honestly they just needed to combine spell and melee stats instead of having sperate stats for everything.</blockquote>I agree with this sentiment. The itemization changes are something that needed to happen to get everything in the game back in sync with the system that we ended up with in Destiny of Velious. Regarding the combining of Spell Weapon and Melee Weapon statistics, I also agree. I think they should have went ahead and changed the way statistics work as well to alleviate some of the grief people are seeing now with Multi-Classed pieces of equipment. Back when they first announced the itemization changes I had suggested this:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"By the way why dont you guys just scrap the Strength, Stamina, Agility, Wisdom, Intelligence listing on the Character Sheet in favor of two normalized statistics that reflect the new simplified system? I was originally against this myself because Im a pretty oldschool player and liked the original system (as imperfect as it was at times) because it harkened back to the original EQ1 and the games classic RPG roots, but since we have come this far with the way the rules are why not go all the way? I mean we only really use two statistics now anyways, and theres plenty of additional stats in the game now to customize characters with - Ability Mod, Multi Attack, Spell Multi Attack, Casting Speed, Critical Chance, Critical Bonus, if you guys do the itemization like you have done with newer items.I envision you doing something like adding two basic statistics that replace the original five. You can have "Aptitude" which would represent Strength, Agility, Wisdom, and Intelligence and then "Resilience" which represents Stamina. That would simplify things nicely. Cursoring over the two statistics in the character sheet could inform the player of what they represent statistically as cursoring over Strength, Stamina, Agility, Wisdom, and Intelligence does now with detailed information and also detail what they are representitive of in flavor text like so:Aptitude: Aptitiude represents a characters overall strength, agility, wisdom, and intelligence in combat.Resilience: Resilience represents a characters overall stamina in combat.Something like this imo would be make the whole statistic system as it is now feel alot more "finished" once itemization is done."--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I definately dont think they should just "scrap" the itemization changes as they are, but I would say that this whole update probably could have used a bit more time in the oven as it were.

docpaulpur2

08-23-2011, 07:16 PM

I have this weird feeling that this "new" dev team is preparing for an upcoming cataclysm and trying to change more in 4 months than in the years since game launch together. Sometimes they listen to feedback and scratch stuff that was obviously doomed from the start, but otherwise it seems like they're running a contest as to how much can be messed up and changed, just because, in the shortest time possible.

zorblack

08-23-2011, 07:29 PM

I just came from test. Even though it's not in the notes, tons of things have changed.FanFaire certainly promised us a lot and it's not possible to deliver in this time frame. The game will be all out of sorts very shortly. Has anybody gone through a grind on test? I mean old world mobs weren't destroying players even after half the items in the game became terrible. I imagine with pot and crit bonus etc. on low level items that the old world will be a cake walk even solo 1-90.Itemization is terrible. Yeah .x more pot & crit!!!! TBH they probably should have reitemized DoV and worked down.

Fitz

08-23-2011, 07:39 PM

Please make this post a poll, so we can show you how many of us would be totally fine with delaying this GU. Take our feedback into account. We're your customers and we play this game a lot. Our input is valid.

Maroger

08-23-2011, 08:13 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>I like the current itemization.</blockquote>What, exactly, do you like about the boring cookie cutter itemization which includes being rewarded from harder mobs with items that are .6 pot / .6 bonus and some crit mit better than items 12 people can kill?</blockquote>Of that are slightly better and e-z mode raid gear ( yes I know you do HM).

Rasttan

08-23-2011, 10:07 PM

Both my EM WEAPONS HAVE DROPPED TO 29% CC guess what in full EM gear having a 190% CC doesnt work becuase you cant crit on the HM mobs thus you cant hold agro and you cant kill them. Thanks for upping my EM weapons cb and pot to 9.6% tho so when I dont crit on the HM mobs more of my stats given are wasted.Lets see im no Dev but if you up my CB but lower my CC then hmmmm you cant use the CB because you wont crit. Let me add to the list you guys are horrible, and a shame to your proffesion if this goes live when its obvious to people who know nothing about programming how blatant the problems are.Now fortunatly I have hardmode weapons which you havent screwed up yet when compared to the mechanics you have in your content but guilds trying hardmode now with that low of a CC cant win nice job.Oh my craptacular x2 weapon still has 44% CC and its from a much weaker mob FYIAnd in closing im glad I worked so hard to clear UD3 and now all the items are ruined and if you have SF gear your CC will be maybe 50-60% and you cant even use the extra CB you stuck on it for that content as you wont crit enough to make it worthwhile. Im no Dev but if SF required 100% CC why does the gear from those raid zones now give way less than that. Maybe fix the weapons from those zones or something you stuck 1% ae auto and 1% flurry ...etc on them and took CC of all the gear so it doesnt work in the zones your looting it from and your supposed to get that gear as you progress through UD to finish it.

Cratoh

08-23-2011, 10:19 PM

And here are the latest test patch notes.BEASTLORD PRELUDE EVENT #1<ul><li>The Ilfanul and Ravinus plushies are now scalable, and able to be placed in guild halls.</li><li>Added dialog to Ravinus to reference the axe necessary for that step of the quest.</li><li>Spiritual pockets and fragments in Commonlands should no longer be in the ground.</li><li>Ilfanul should no longer respond to players who are not ready to start his ritual.</li></ul><div></div><div>hahahaaaaaaa. </div><div></div><div>What a mess. BL prelude, a gimpy little questline, still not right. Can't even design a live event (DR/EW spire) that works, and yet plan to revamp 50k items. </div><div></div><div>If this goes as wrong as it looks like it iis going to then people are going to quit in droves.</div>

Gaige

08-23-2011, 11:31 PM

I wonder if I'll even be here in November to quit for TOR <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Deneir_Allaston

08-23-2011, 11:54 PM

I think Bill O'Reilly summed up this next GU best, imho...<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_HyZ5aW76c&feature=related">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_Hy...feature=related</a>Bring it on!

Necroponic

08-24-2011, 12:37 AM

<cite>Fitz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please make this post a poll, so we can show you how many of us would be totally fine with delaying this GU. Take our feedback into account. We're your customers and we play this game a lot. Our input is valid.</blockquote>a poll would help but is there an option for that here on live?

Korhallen3

08-24-2011, 01:29 AM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>I wonder if I'll even be here in November to quit for TOR <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Maybe this quit will stick. One can hope.

Gaige

08-24-2011, 01:45 AM

It definitely will, TOR is amazing~ Not to mention more and more of my friends are quitting this game and not coming back and things like GU61 are ruining an already boring expansion <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Felshades

08-24-2011, 02:39 AM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>It definitely will, TOR is amazing~ Not to mention more and more of my friends are quitting this game and not coming back and things like GU61 are ruining an already boring expansion <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Gaige, you sound like you're just bored with the game, and not even eliminating this update would fix that.Take a break. Seriously.

Gaige

08-24-2011, 02:49 AM

<cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>Gaige, you sound like you're just bored with the game, and not even eliminating this update would fix that.</blockquote>I was bored with the game in RoK, I'm used to that~

Felshades

08-24-2011, 02:58 AM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>Gaige, you sound like you're just bored with the game, and not even eliminating this update would fix that.</blockquote>I was bored with the game in RoK, I'm used to that~</blockquote>Then why stick around?

Nedm

08-24-2011, 03:34 AM

I logged on to test and looked at the gear, alot of it is where it should be based on the itemization of pow. Though TSO. t3 raid gear lost their Red slots in the last update to upgrade them. Some of the Stats look nice on the old gear but its not worth losing the Crit mit or the Set bonuses (or crit chance) to put them on, so It leaves room for progression. Its not like i wanted to log on to put on older gear and it be better right. Some things seemed out of whack, but to put it on would Sacrifice Survivablity that if you did put it on you deserve to die anyways.Alot of it i was just thinking i wish it was this powerful when i raided with that piece. Alot of Blue stats but most of them are .5 here and .2 or .3 there, that was kinda confusing. But i guess a full set of that kind of gear will add up.

Trensharo

08-24-2011, 10:01 AM

Going to be frank. Who cares? Low level gear got changed. Some of it may seem powerful. So what? Old content is old. Doesn't matter and once people get to 90 90% of that stuff gets obsoleted anyways. The point is to make the lower levels more interesting and make it easier for lower level players to Adventure and AA level, not to pass the FBI/CIA levels of scrutiny of random forum perusers...So what if you feel your old gear from 3 expansions ago got nerfed, or if it's no equippable anymore, or your alt can't equip a bracer when there's one you can solo with half your slots empty with the revamped gear after the GU goes live...

NardacMM

08-24-2011, 10:22 AM

<cite>daray wrote:</cite><blockquote>These changes should have been implemented one tier at time, starting from the high levels and working downwards, ensuring that each tier is complete and correct before moving onto the next level tier down.</blockquote>^^^^^^^ LOGIC

thegriss

08-24-2011, 10:26 AM

<cite>Deverel@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>daray wrote:</cite><blockquote>These changes should have been implemented one tier at time, starting from the high levels and working downwards, ensuring that each tier is complete and correct before moving onto the next level tier down.</blockquote>^^^^^^^ LOGIC</blockquote>This+1 I welcome all these new stats and the gear revamp as a melee priest who was screwed at the release of DOV. However they should have started with DOV items and worked backwards.

Trensharo

08-24-2011, 10:47 AM

I already said they should have done a top down approach, and got trolled by casuals and RPers because they think if you raid then you're just lobbying for raid changes and benefits for raiders.Somehow they think this game will blossom into WoW-level player populations just because they ubered up some low level gear 90% of the playerbase doesn't care about.

thegriss

08-24-2011, 11:59 AM

Psykotic

08-24-2011, 12:32 PM

<cite>Sorvex@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I already said they should have done a top down approach, and got trolled by casuals and RPers because they think if you raid then you're just lobbying for raid changes and benefits for raiders.Somehow they think this game will blossom into WoW-level player populations just because they ubered up some low level gear 90% of the playerbase doesn't care about.</blockquote>Generally I dont agree with Trenshero but he is spot on with this statment.</blockquote>Signed x2There are just far too many things that would require a complete overhaul and redesign for this game to even come close to what are current MMO standards. They just don't have the development or marketing resources available to EQ2 to make it mainstream popular. Too many bad choices were made and never corrected, and now it is just too late. They are better off concentrating on EQ Next and for the time being doing what they can to keep the existing player base happy.

Yimway

08-24-2011, 01:04 PM

You realize they simply do not have the resources to verify the results of the autoloot9000 and attempt to make the expansion deadline, right?

Banditman

08-24-2011, 01:09 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>You realize they simply do not have the resources to verify the results of the autoloot9000 and attempt to make the expansion deadline, right?</blockquote>This is why Reforging is happening. We can fix it for them. In fact, if Reforging were going in at the same time as this loot update, I daresay you would see a lot less concern.Yes, you'd still have the problems where items went from Fabled to Legendary. You'd still have to address the items that were moved from a wide audience (All Classes) to a smaller audience (Priests only). But Reforging would definitely alleviate some of the pain.

Trensharo

08-24-2011, 01:14 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>You realize they simply do not have the resources to verify the results of the autoloot9000 and attempt to make the expansion deadline, right?</blockquote>We do, that's the point we're trying to put forth. They should have fixed the itemization that mattered to most people, and then worked their way down. The number of truly new players in the game simply isn't worth putting that much investment in it, and as a side result they added/revamped mechanics and left huge itemization holes in DoV itemization.So, while attempting to "fix" low level gear, they indirectly broke all current DoV gear in the game by proxy.So now unless I want to downgrade from raid gear to heroic items or your guild progresses to I'm assuming Plane of War an entire mechanic is off-limits to me? That makes absolutely no sense.They are in over their heads. They went about this is the most unintelligent manner I could imagine.

Trensharo

08-24-2011, 01:15 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>You realize they simply do not have the resources to verify the results of the autoloot9000 and attempt to make the expansion deadline, right?</blockquote>This is why Reforging is happening. We can fix it for them. In fact, if Reforging were going in at the same time as this loot update, I daresay you would see a lot less concern.Yes, you'd still have the problems where items went from Fabled to Legendary. You'd still have to address the items that were moved from a wide audience (All Classes) to a smaller audience (Priests only). But Reforging would definitely alleviate some of the pain.</blockquote>Well, it really depends on how they implement Reforging. I can only allude to WoW's implementation, but as I've said in another thread everything in WoW is a rating so it makes more sense for their state system than EQ2's percentage-based for almost everything system.

daray

08-24-2011, 01:39 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>You realize they simply do not have the resources to verify the results of the autoloot9000 and attempt to make the expansion deadline, right?</blockquote>It's not all the items that they should be verifying by hand, but the raid/fabled loot in each expansion.Also they should be introducing some blue stats to items only as the item level tiers rise. There's no sense in throwing a wall of blue text at new players on low level items with 0.01% to stuff that they'll neither understand nor have in enough quantity of to make any meaningful difference (e.g. crit bonus when they won't have enough crit to make use of it).

JazzMaus

08-24-2011, 02:10 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>You realize they simply do not have the resources to verify the results of the autoloot9000 and attempt to make the expansion deadline, right </blockquote>I'm guessing we all realize this, & we all also realize this is why the deadline they set for themselves is too short, & why they shouldn't have tried to re-itemize the entire game from the bottom-up in time for that too-short deadline.Since it seems like the biggest issue is DOV gear, it would have made a lot more sense to hand-do the DOV gear, then go down from there. IOW, SOE painted themselves into this corner. It's just one more reason why if I could have any one MMO wish, it would be for this game to be bought by someone who will actually give it the time, attention, & resources it deserves.To be clear: I'm not harshing on the Devs. I'm harshing on the people above them on the SOE food chain. SOE's developers are good. SOE's management ..... not so good.

Yimway

08-24-2011, 02:13 PM

<cite>JazzMaus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>You realize they simply do not have the resources to verify the results of the autoloot9000 and attempt to make the expansion deadline, right </blockquote>I'm guessing we all realize this, & we all also realize this is why the deadline they set for themselves is too short, & why they shouldn't have tried to re-itemize the entire game from the bottom-up in time for that too-short deadline.</blockquote>I wasn't being clear enough.Even if they delay this update 3 months, they still will not have the resources to audit even just the raid / shard / recipe loots and still make the expansion release date.Reforging helps, but it doesn't really address the proc issues.

Gungo

08-24-2011, 02:15 PM

Regardless if these item changes will have multiple bugs or not. The fact remains SOE needs to do this because of the DOV mechanics changes that made half the stats on armour useless for classes.So the bottom line is we have to deal with it and report any issues that made it into live. I would say keep it on test for another 2 weeks so people can report itssues but we all know test will only push out a halfarsed job. What SOE can do is make sure any issues get hotfixed asap and keep a couple devs working on the item changes for the next 2+ weeks when it hits live.P.S. and honestly one of the issues they have to hotfix after this goes live is readjusting stats on DOV armour to include the new spell auto atk mechanic stats. That is unless SOE gets smart and jsut mergers the melee and spell auto stats and simply adjusts the auto atk modifer of spell auto atk for mages/priests.

Maroger

08-24-2011, 03:44 PM

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>Regardless if these item changes will have multiple bugs or not. The fact remains SOE needs to do this because of the DOV mechanics changes that made half the stats on armour useless for classes.So the bottom line is we have to deal with it and report any issues that made it into live. I would say keep it on test for another 2 weeks so people can report itssues but we all know test will only push out a halfarsed job. What SOE can do is make sure any issues get hotfixed asap and keep a couple devs working on the item changes for the next 2+ weeks when it hits live.P.S. and honestly one of the issues they have to hotfix after this goes live is readjusting stats on DOV armour to include the new spell auto atk mechanic stats. That is unless SOE gets smart and jsut mergers the melee and spell auto stats and simply adjusts the auto atk modifer of spell auto atk for mages/priests.</blockquote>What is worse they have disabled test copy so you can send the latest version of your toon to test to check out these changes on his current gear. It is almost as if they are afraid what you will find out.

Kunaak

08-24-2011, 03:51 PM

these updates should not go into the game - if this cant be done with someone overlooking the changes - dont do it.

Chefren

08-24-2011, 04:15 PM

I'm glad I don't have any characters I actively play with pre-DoV equipment. Nothing would be more interesting than logging on and not being able to use all the gear you did the day before..

Rick777

08-24-2011, 05:01 PM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I already said they should have done a top down approach, and got trolled by casuals and RPers because they think if you raid then you're just lobbying for raid changes and benefits for raiders.Somehow they think this game will blossom into WoW-level player populations just because they ubered up some low level gear 90% of the playerbase doesn't care about.</blockquote>This is what I'm confused about. Why waste the dev power on 20-80? You can run around naked and still kill stuff in 3 hits. I understand some players may want to enjoy the content and take their time, but that even drives home the point even more that homogenizing the gear will just take away that much excitement from being a new player. Oh look I got a 5.2cb/pot bracelet, maybe next week I can go to that harder zone and get a 6cb/pot bracelet, maybe even one day I'll raid and get a 6.2cb/pot bracelet, woot! Long gone are the days when you could create something out of nothing, for example a battlepriest wearing melee/fighter gear, those are the days I miss.But yes +1 this should have been a top down approach, but I'll assume they think it's a top down approach in the sense that while they may be adjusting 80-90 gear, it's still "done" in their eyes. Sure the issue is that the game is on such a small dev crew that they need to make stat regurgitator programs like these, but it just makes me scared for what homogenized content we may see with the next xpac.

JazzMaus

08-24-2011, 05:16 PM

<cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why waste the dev power on 20-80? </blockquote>I'm a returning player on a brand-new account; my highest level character is 36.I agree with Rick's question entirely. I don't see the "need" for a revamp of the lower level stuff at all, whereas I think there's clearly a need for revamp of the DOV gear.

Valentina

08-24-2011, 05:33 PM

<cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I already said they should have done a top down approach, and got trolled by casuals and RPers because they think if you raid then you're just lobbying for raid changes and benefits for raiders.Somehow they think this game will blossom into WoW-level player populations just because they ubered up some low level gear 90% of the playerbase doesn't care about.</blockquote>This is what I'm confused about. Why waste the dev power on 20-80? You can run around naked and still kill stuff in 3 hits. I understand some players may want to enjoy the content and take their time, but that even drives home the point even more that homogenizing the gear will just take away that much excitement from being a new player. Oh look I got a 5.2cb/pot bracelet, maybe next week I can go to that harder zone and get a 6cb/pot bracelet, maybe even one day I'll raid and get a 6.2cb/pot bracelet, woot! Long gone are the days when you could create something out of nothing, for example a battlepriest wearing melee/fighter gear, those are the days I miss.But yes +1 this should have been a top down approach, but I'll assume they think it's a top down approach in the sense that while they may be adjusting 80-90 gear, it's still "done" in their eyes. Sure the issue is that the game is on such a small dev crew that they need to make stat regurgitator programs like these, but it just makes me scared for what homogenized content we may see with the next xpac.</blockquote>As someone working through the pre-DoV content, I can answer the bolded question above. In point of fact, you partially answered it yourself: "some players may want to enjoy the content and take their time". As a non-DoV player (I do have two characters in that content, but spend the majority of my time in earlier expansions with lower level characters), I had the joy of having the DoV mechanics change impacting my characters with that expansion's launch, despite the fact that the pre-DoV items did not reflect the mechanics change. Items lost health and power, without any corresponding addition of stamina or [primary stat]. In TSO/SF, this was not such a big deal, as the items tended to have a lot of stamina and most items had the relevant stat for the classes that could wield/wear it. For RoK (group, if not raid) and before, this was definitely not the case. There's not a lot of fun to be had in levelling up through content where, much of the time, you're getting quest rewards that are meaningless for your class. I understand some players want to just be at the bleeding edge, and more power to those people, but an equally valid playstyle was severely impacted by a global mechanics change that was only accompanied by itemization changes for a small portion of the game.I don't think anybody was asking for itemization changes like we are getting. Many people suggested simply running a script that looked at existing items, checked to see the classes that could wear/wield it, added primary stat values of the appropriate amounts for those classes, normalized stamina to some extent, and otherwise left the items alone. I'd have been ecstatic to get that, and I think it would have involved a lot less work AND a lot less potential for itemization issues without inflating low-level character power. (For that matter, I don't really like the homogenized DoV itemization, with its 0.x differentials in blue stats, so the change we are getting is pushing down a style of itemization I don't agree with in the first place)Hope that helps answer the question. I'm not trying to start a flame war. I'm just explaining my stance as someone with a different playstyle. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Gungo

08-24-2011, 05:40 PM

<cite>Kunaak wrote:</cite><blockquote>these updates should not go into the game - if this cant be done with someone overlooking the changes - dont do it.</blockquote>They cant just NOT do it. Stats below DoV on most gear are all messed up.There is a bunch of new blue effects and an entire new mechanic that unusable pre dov. Most of the older gear is completely messed up w half the green stats not being useful and in low level gear most of the stats are green.People need to sukit up and play through it.

redwoodtreesprite

08-24-2011, 05:41 PM

Yup, many players like to take their time and enjoy the world and the earlier level quests. Not everyone has all maxed out characters, and not everyone raids. The beauty of this game is how friendly it is to several playstyles. All of them matter, including casual players and players that play heavily yet take their time to progress through the game.Point is, it's important that the lower level gear is fixed, not just the high level gear.

guillero

08-24-2011, 05:46 PM

They just have to accept the whole Stat simplification that came with DoV was a TOTAL FAILURE!Instead of trying to revamp 7 years of content. It's much easier to roll back that stupid change (that should have never happened in the first place!) and revamp one Expac!It's much easier to revamp DoV (as it wasn't a big expac anyway), then trying to revamp the entire pre-DoV game to the new FAIL stat system!

slippery

08-24-2011, 05:50 PM

<cite>Valentina@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't think anybody was asking for itemization changes like we are getting. Many people suggested simply running a script that looked at existing items, checked to see the classes that could wear/wield it, added primary stat values of the appropriate amounts for those classes, normalized stamina to some extent, and otherwise left the items alone. I'd have been ecstatic to get that, and I think it would have involved a lot less work AND a lot less potential for itemization issues without inflating low-level character power. (For that matter, I don't really like the homogenized DoV itemization, with its 0.x differentials in blue stats, so the change we are getting is pushing down a style of itemization I don't agree with in the first place)</blockquote>This is what I expected. Maybe some stuff like a little bit of ability mod or cast speed filtered through some lower level gear. A little bit of crit and potency here and there. As you got higher maybe some reuse. Throw in some crit bonus in the 70's.

Yimway

08-24-2011, 06:00 PM

<cite>slippery wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Valentina@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't think anybody was asking for itemization changes like we are getting. Many people suggested simply running a script that looked at existing items, checked to see the classes that could wear/wield it, added primary stat values of the appropriate amounts for those classes, normalized stamina to some extent, and otherwise left the items alone. I'd have been ecstatic to get that, and I think it would have involved a lot less work AND a lot less potential for itemization issues without inflating low-level character power. (For that matter, I don't really like the homogenized DoV itemization, with its 0.x differentials in blue stats, so the change we are getting is pushing down a style of itemization I don't agree with in the first place)</blockquote>This is what I expected. Maybe some stuff like a little bit of ability mod or cast speed filtered through some lower level gear. A little bit of crit and potency here and there. As you got higher maybe some reuse. Throw in some crit bonus in the 70's.</blockquote>It was almost like the intent was to make everyone as OP as a mentored toon <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />How soon before they need to adjust the dificulty of any of this lower tier stuff to cause its all trivialized by the new gear?

maplewood333

08-24-2011, 06:03 PM

DoV is the problem in the game right now, its SOE's dumb idea to scrap what was working for 7 years...... lol. Now not giving a F to look at what the community wants they are going to make the rest of the game just as dumb as DoV. WTB devs that look and listen to the community, because we had told them in beta that itemization was stupid but went through with it anyway(Even when DoV went live im sure 90% of players would rather see TSO/SF itemization than cookie cutter items with 0.6% increase in stats, with no choice of a upgrade or not).Going thought with these changes without looking at the screw up you guys did in DoV would be the worst idea SoE has ever made........ worse than adding SC to the game because they got greedy.

Jesdyr

08-24-2011, 06:04 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote> trivialized by the new gear?</blockquote>I think the point was to trivialize it.

Yimway

08-24-2011, 06:07 PM

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote> trivialized by the new gear?</blockquote>I think the point was to trivialize it.</blockquote>I would agree, but I think that would be giving them more credit than they are due.I honestly think they had a hammer (scripted itemization) and a complaint received from players (itemization of lower tiers needs some attention).They chose to hit the problem with the hammer they had vs finding an alternate solution.

Talathion

08-24-2011, 06:07 PM

I say go live with everything BUT the itemization changes.

Gaige

08-24-2011, 06:09 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is why Reforging is happening. We can fix it for them. In fact, if Reforging were going in at the same time as this loot update, I daresay you would see a lot less concern.Yes, you'd still have the problems where items went from Fabled to Legendary. You'd still have to address the items that were moved from a wide audience (All Classes) to a smaller audience (Priests only). But Reforging would definitely alleviate some of the pain.</blockquote>This post is pretty heavy on the assumption.Assuming that reforging goes live:1) Working2) Working like you think it should3) UsefulIs a pretty big risk considering how things have worked out in this game since launch.

JazzMaus

08-24-2011, 06:10 PM

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>Most of the older gear is completely messed up w half the green stats not being useful and in low level gear most of the stats are green</blockquote>For characters below 50, none of that matters, because the content is mostly trivially easy.

Geothe

08-24-2011, 06:19 PM

I really cant understand SoE's approach to this entire situation.Very low level gear doesnt need all of the blue stats that are being given.The blue stats on the gear has always been appropriate for the content the gear comes from.The only thing they should of had the script setup to do is check the classes that can equip the gear, and then grant green stats on the gear for each of the classes that can equip it. Blue stats should not of been touched at all, nor added in more.Example:Wrist piece that had say 32 str, 25 agi, 40 Sta.2 Crit, 5 multiattack.Scouts, Fighters, Priests.Script should of just changed that item to:32 Str, 32 Agi, 32 Wis, 40 Sta.2 Crit, 5 MA.Scouts, Fighters, Priests.Thats it.Then there would be no problem with some classes losing gear they could use prior.Or losing their stats on the gear.Or having a pile of crazy, confusing, blue stats that have near zero impact at that tier added in.In short, there wouldnt be the mess that currently exists at all.

Velenda

08-24-2011, 06:22 PM

<cite>JazzMaus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>Most of the older gear is completely messed up w half the green stats not being useful and in low level gear most of the stats are green</blockquote>For characters below 50, none of that matters, because the content is mostly trivially easy.</blockquote>Sure but it's fun...and that's what matters right? I dont want things handed to me (no one does and no games hand out epics at level 1), but then again, I don't want to come home from a hard day of work to log in....and begin working again.It's all about balance, and what players want to spend their time doing.One players 'trivial content', is another players grand (level locked) adventure....just my 2 copper...

Jesdyr

08-24-2011, 06:28 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>2) Working like you think it should</blockquote>Just wait .. Future Itemization will be items that drop with nothing on them but an ability value and you just pick whatever stats you want.

JazzMaus

08-24-2011, 06:34 PM

<cite>Velenda wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sure but it's fun...and that's what matters right? I dont want things handed to me</blockquote>Yes, the current content is fun, but my point is that we lower level players don't need the newly re-vamped gear, because the content we're doing is trivially easy. & yes, I agree that I don't want things handed to me, but .....I'm already blasting through level-appropriate zones on my 36 Troubie. I don't need more help -- if I want it, I've got a geared out 90 Warden guildie who will happily mentor down & drag me through dungeons. Re-vamp my gear without re-vamping the content, & I might not even need her.

Velenda

08-24-2011, 06:47 PM

<cite>JazzMaus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Velenda wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sure but it's fun...and that's what matters right? I dont want things handed to me</blockquote>Yes, the current content is fun, but my point is that we lower level players don't need the newly re-vamped gear, because the content we're doing is trivially easy. & yes, I agree that I don't want things handed to me, but .....I'm already blasting through level-appropriate zones on my 36 Troubie. I don't need more help -- if I want it, I've got a geared out 90 Warden guildie who will happily mentor down & drag me through dungeons. Re-vamp my gear without re-vamping the content, & I might not even need her.</blockquote>I see what you mean now. *nods* Thats a good point.

Regholdain

08-24-2011, 06:56 PM

This is totally off topic, but what they need to do is rebalance the XP and AA XP curves so that you earn the appropriate amount of AA as you level, and so that you don't earn experience so fast that the entire zone greens (or grays) out before you finish 2/3's of the questlines. But that's another discussion for elsewhere...I personally have a trove of low-level alts, and I wouldn't mind seeing the lower tier zones get the item revamps. I just hope the stat changes being made make sense and have more than a miniscule impact (positive impact, mind you) on the game play from the lower through to the higher tiers. I am hopeful that once they work out the bugs over the next month or two all of these changes will end up being a nice enhancement in the end. In this way, I see the glass as half full, though I do take things with a grain of salt. If the changes end up junking the game and worsening gameplay and all of my alts suddenly are no fun to play... well... I guess it's time to go find a different game.

Fitz

08-24-2011, 07:23 PM

Reg, lock your exp and shove it all into aa. Your point is silly. Bump to avoid tomorrow's apocalypse.

Deneir_Allaston

08-24-2011, 07:29 PM

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>Regardless if these item changes will have multiple bugs or not. The fact remains SOE needs to do this because of the DOV mechanics changes that made half the stats on armour useless for classes.So the bottom line is we have to deal with it and report any issues that made it into live. I would say keep it on test for another 2 weeks so people can report itssues but we all know test will only push out a halfarsed job. What SOE can do is make sure any issues get hotfixed asap and keep a couple devs working on the item changes for the next 2+ weeks when it hits live.P.S. and honestly one of the issues they have to hotfix after this goes live is readjusting stats on DOV armour to include the new spell auto atk mechanic stats. That is unless SOE gets smart and jsut mergers the melee and spell auto stats and simply adjusts the auto atk modifer of spell auto atk for mages/priests.</blockquote>This is pretty much how I see it. This itemization update needs to happen, it doesnt matter how long they let this GU bake on the Test Server there are going to be bugs with it when they push it live. And I agree Gungo, the most important thing that SoE can do when it does launch is be diligent with hotfixing the issues that are sure to arrive. It will simply be an ongoing process with this. Lower level instance and zone difficulty is something that can be tweaked after they get the itemization in the game back to logical cohesive whole again.

Velenda

08-24-2011, 07:32 PM

Agreed. I also hope that the recinded AA lockouts remain intact.Wacky stat gear I can deal with, being forced to level up....then I get ragey. >_<

Kunaak

08-24-2011, 08:53 PM

this update is a major disaster.I just got back from test, and its so bad.the ark tank ring is now scout, the vaclaz HM neck is now 10 less potency, and crap stats to try and make up for it, TONS of items have 0.4 Multi Attack - when they use to have 11 crit - 10 DA, or something like that.for every 1 item that seems ok, theres 5 others that just leave me cringing, cause I cant believe this is going live, and its this bad.

Talathion

08-24-2011, 09:05 PM

<cite>Kunaak wrote:</cite><blockquote>this update is a major disaster.I just got back from test, and its so bad.the ark tank ring is now scout, the vaclaz HM neck is now 10 less potency, and crap stats to try and make up for it, TONS of items have 0.4 Multi Attack - when they use to have 11 crit - 10 DA, or something like that.for every 1 item that seems ok, theres 5 others that just leave me cringing, cause I cant believe this is going live, and its this bad.</blockquote>They are basicly removing Multi-Attack/Critical Chance from everything below SF... :/They forgot how important Critical Chance/Mulit-Attackis for scouts and tanks to compete with Mage DPS...

papasmurf1004

08-24-2011, 09:42 PM

Everytime i log in it gets a little worse it seems. I just recopied a toon over this is whats happening1. Toon was naked (good thing) gear was in overflow with adorns still attached (bad thing)2. i relog to check the reattuning bug. And confirmed that 50% of the gear that was unattuned is now reattuned agian. (bad thing)3. I'm level 80 and my t2 shard gear is better than my t3 or t4 shard gear. And my coercer mythical still has 32 wisdom on it.......(very very bad thing)4. Jewelery is for different classes now than when it dropped and with the shard system of jewelry upgrades the class type can class when you upgrade itThen there are the 1000's (yes it really is that many) of pieces of gear that have broken procs and stats that don;t suit the class the gear is meant for. Hell i even noticed today then updates PORTAL gear (well half of it lol). PLs don;t release this as it is now. I have played since launch and this is the worst looking gear change we have had in that time. I know it needs to be done and i want it to be done but it needs to be closer to 95% perfect as opposed to the 30% we have atm.

Gungo

08-24-2011, 10:37 PM

<cite>JazzMaus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>Most of the older gear is completely messed up w half the green stats not being useful and in low level gear most of the stats are green</blockquote>For characters below 50, none of that matters, because the content is mostly trivially easy.</blockquote>You do realize they added an entirely new mechanic that has to get itemized in spell auto atk. Its like removing every primary secondary and ranged item from the game and every stat associated with melee auto atk if you really think scrapping this revamp is what they should do.

kuwappa

08-24-2011, 10:44 PM

critical chance and multi attack heading reduce for balance?

Talathion

08-24-2011, 10:54 PM

Ugh, Alot of pieces with wrong stats.

Kunaak

08-29-2011, 11:29 PM

I would just like to say "told you so".just look at the current items and general gameplay forums.the entire games all mad about everything - the things we said here, in the test forums that this update should not go live as is.

ObsidianNightmare

08-29-2011, 11:49 PM

<cite>Kunaak wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would just like to say "told you so".just look at the current items and general gameplay forums.the entire games all mad about everything - the things we said here, in the test forums that this update should not go live as is.</blockquote>I think it goes without saying that the previous expacs needed the gear overhaul... however I don't understand what the big rush was to do E V E R Y T H I N G in one go at it. I understand there are multiple tools doing multiple passes with human intervention. However even the very experienced DBA doing work on data knows that exceptions to scripts can sometimes take SEVERAL HOURS to fix even if its just a few lines. It's very random and you cannot predict the time it will take unless you are running the same scripts on the same database types expecting the same results out of your exceptions. You never had that luxury with your database. It's been through too many hands and too many updates. You can't even get new data to save to it (space? compression issues?). Its very random to say the leastI really don't understand why you didn't approach the gear updates a few weeks at a time going in order from DoV to Shattered Lands. That to me.. seemes the most logical and managable course of action.Experiementing with SF first would have made a LOT of people happy that it was being fine tuned a that level first and then moving down to the previous tiers.Anyway.. You have a big mess on your hands.. I hope you smooth it out with less reliance on tools and more reliance on common sense.

SisterTheresa

08-30-2011, 11:37 AM

<cite>ObsidianNightmare wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kunaak wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would just like to say "told you so".just look at the current items and general gameplay forums.the entire games all mad about everything - the things we said here, in the test forums that this update should not go live as is.</blockquote>I think it goes without saying that the previous expacs needed the gear overhaul... however I don't understand what the big rush was to do E V E R Y T H I N G in one go at it. I understand there are multiple tools doing multiple passes with human intervention. However even the very experienced DBA doing work on data knows that exceptions to scripts can sometimes take SEVERAL HOURS to fix even if its just a few lines. It's very random and you cannot predict the time it will take unless you are running the same scripts on the same database types expecting the same results out of your exceptions. You never had that luxury with your database. It's been through too many hands and too many updates. You can't even get new data to save to it (space? compression issues?). Its very random to say the leastI really don't understand why you didn't approach the gear updates a few weeks at a time going in order from DoV to Shattered Lands. That to me.. seemes the most logical and managable course of action.Experiementing with SF first would have made a LOT of people happy that it was being fine tuned a that level first and then moving down to the previous tiers.Anyway.. You have a big mess on your hands.. I hope you smooth it out with less reliance on tools and more reliance on common sense.</blockquote>I have to agree that a little at a time would have been much better than a dump pile all at once.

Fitz

08-30-2011, 12:11 PM

Considering the volume of material, SOE didn't do a terrible job. More fixes are coming out today anyway.

ObsidianNightmare

08-30-2011, 02:01 PM

<cite>Fitz wrote:</cite><blockquote>Considering the volume of material, SOE didn't do a terrible job. More fixes are coming out today anyway.</blockquote>With the amount of gear that I have amassed and placed on the broker for sale by running Shattered Lands/EoF zones, I was amazed at the number of items that were untouched all together.Of the ones that were touched some items became unusable by my class which were geared for that class when looted. A friend of mine found that one of her alts which was a healer was suddently wearing gear with scout stats. This was 90% of her gear which i believe was gained in RoK raid zones.So honestly.. things like this are indeed indicative of a terrible job. A not so terrible job would have gone largely unnoticed with a few items here and there. This is more than a few items and covers entire portions of content (e.g all SF contested gear and hardmode gear missed or made inappropriate for classes it was previously meant for)