May we have a "State of the GU" post please? (collated list of "open" questions) [Archive]

Nevao

08-16-2011, 11:23 AM

We're just shy of two weeks out from the end of the month and at this point I'm having a hard time telling if the light coming is a train or the end of the tunnel, or if the train is even going to get to its destination this month. Dev responses have been fairly light this go around which while understandable due to the ammount of work that needs to be done has left a lot of frustrated players with open questions. Can we get an update on the following?<ul><li>AA changes<ul><li>Summoners net DPS effect: There are a lot of open questions if the loss of SDA is supposed to be result in a net DPS loss or not. While I don't know what the final numbers look like, is this intended? Or are they supposed to have their current DPS levels just through different means?</li><li>Adjustments for "cappable" AAs: A lot of classes are getting upset that their counterparts are getting CB boosts to certain abilities while they are getting things that are significantly less useful (can we say Ranger power cost reduction on Escape). While I understand how the call is being made on what qualifies for adjustment are any considerations going to be made for class balance?</li><li>The Chelsith Effect: While we all understand wanting to kill AFK AA grinding what is going to be done about the herds of players that are now going to be pushed into contested zones that can't support the population now this change has been made?</li></ul></li><li>Guild Halls on Test<ul><li>What's going on with this? Like many others I have several stuck characters due to the problems with Guild Halls. Do we know what's happening? Is this something that could make it to Live? </li></ul></li><li>Itemization Changes<ul><li>Tier 3 to T8 revamp? Last time I checked there were still reports of items with insanely out of whack stats given the tier (mid-tier items with 40+ weapon skills for example) and items that were previously open to multiple classes now restricted to just a few (either directly or through stats). Where are we on this and are the devs happy with where it's going? </li><li>What is going on with Tier 9 items? It was our understanding that SF gear was not being touched this pass and nothing was discussed about DoV. But now we're seeing all kinds of changes to off hands (stat changes, red/yellow adornment slots being removed) that are not making sense to the community. Can we get someone to weigh in on what's gong on?</li><li>Mastercrafted Armor: Though technically not part of this release there are reports that there still serious kinks in the progression of Master Crafted Armor (working to get examples). Is this going to be addressed as part of this release?</li><li>Melee Priests: With all these changes, what is being done for the melee priest option? Roughly half of the priests subclasses have Melee Tuned AA (look at Wardens for example) but there is no gear to support this play style. With Spell auto attack being added this marginalizes this playstyle even more.</li><li>Spell Auto Attack: <ul><li>Can we get a better feel for the items going in? Right now it's hard tell what the actual effect is going to be since we can only get a few legendary wands.</li><li>Is there going to be any adjustments on existing gear for Spell Auto Attack or will this all be found on new gear</li></ul></li></ul></li><li>Mechanic Changes:<ul><li>Default Auto Attack: Now that we have multiple classes effected by a mix of attacks (instead of just Rangers) are we going to see a control for saying what auto attack method we want without having to use buggy macros? This seems to be perpetually on the "we want to do list" but never seems to make it live even though it's very inconvenient to the players it affects.</li></ul></li><li>Overcap changes<ul><li>Focus: Is the "Snare" effect really working as intended? Is this being adjusted due to the feedback on how it's changing play styles due to now having to use new methods for spell cancels on jousts?</li><li>Haste: We just saw yesterday that the curve has been changed, but what are the new tiers?</li><li>Weapon Skills: I was told when asked these should effect CA min damage but they do not appear to be (unles this was an undocumented change last night). Was this a misunderstanding, or is it simply not working yet?</li><li>Class Balance: Are there any adjustments being planned due to the effect that these overcaps will have on Class Balance? For example it's easier to get +disruption up than it is to get +weapon skills? Certain classes have easy access to overcap stats through self buffs (Rangers for example), while others do not (Brigs for example).</li></ul></li><li>Plane of War<ul><li>Is this being player tested? Due to Raid Zone difficultly and bugs no one currently qualifies to enter so there's no way to player organize any kind of testing</li><li>Easy Mode Version Entrance Requirements: Speaking of no one qualifying, will the EM version be open for guilds that have killed EM Sullon/Tallon/Vallon? Or do all three Hard Modes have to be killed first just to get into EM?</li></ul></li></ul>If anyone has questions they want to add (outside of class specific questions like where's my Wizard DPS increase) I will add it.

DuneWarrior

08-16-2011, 11:38 AM

Nm. need to learn to read

Kunaak

08-16-2011, 12:12 PM

The Chelsith Effect: While we all understand wanting to kill AFK AA grinding what is going to be done about the herds of players that are now going to be pushed into contested zones that can't support the population now this change has been made?oh god, quit acting like chelsith was designed for the purpose of AA.we been grinding AA for years. now you gotta actually move again... big deal.

Nevao

08-16-2011, 12:17 PM

<cite>Kunaak wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Chelsith Effect: While we all understand wanting to kill AFK AA grinding what is going to be done about the herds of players that are now going to be pushed into contested zones that can't support the population now this change has been made?oh god, quit acting like chelsith was designed for the purpose of AA.we been grinding AA for years. now you gotta actually move again... big deal.</blockquote>Please kindly get over yourself. Whether you agree or not, people want to know what's going to happen to x now that y has occurred on test. It's a relevant question even if you agree with the change made.

Boli32

08-16-2011, 12:39 PM

<cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kunaak wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Chelsith Effect: While we all understand wanting to kill AFK AA grinding what is going to be done about the herds of players that are now going to be pushed into contested zones that can't support the population now this change has been made?oh god, quit acting like chelsith was designed for the purpose of AA.we been grinding AA for years. now you gotta actually move again... big deal.</blockquote>Please kindly get over yourself. Whether you agree or not, people want to know what's going to happen to x now that y has occurred on test. It's a relevant question even if you agree with the change made.</blockquote>At the end of the day people will find out the most effieicent way to grind out AA - remove XP from chelsith they will move elsewhere - the more you remove the effient "kill zones" the more and more people will become frustrated as they try to gain their last few AA points which can come agonisginly slowly once you have finished all the quest content in a new expansion.Anyone else remember Hardclave? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />That said... it would be nice to have dev feedback on what they are trying to accomplish with this LU; and perhaps more importantly what they are still working on as a lot fo classes are feelign neglected.

Valentina

08-16-2011, 03:54 PM

Great thread. Hopefully, these questions get answered by the devs.

Nevao

08-16-2011, 04:22 PM

I would hope so. While it's nice to get Dev comments on things like the Fae Fly quest, the new EW Quest Lines, and Live events there are lot of mechanic/itemization issues that we'll be dealing with for far longer than the time it takes to do those quests.

Kunaak

08-17-2011, 04:37 AM

Faeward

08-17-2011, 04:58 AM

I feel like Kunaak missed the point.These are burning questions and I hope the devs can respond. If these features/bugs made their way in to live... we should be worried.

Hammieee

08-17-2011, 05:16 AM

guess no one knows how to clear a contested dungeon

Hamervelder

08-17-2011, 05:26 AM

The Chelsith change is pretty silly, in my opinion. If people want to spend their time grinding away on respawning mobs in an instance, then so what? That doesn't negatively affect my game experience, or anyone else's. It's so tiring, hearing people gripe and complain about how others play the game. For the few who might argue something along the lines of "Now more people will group", think about this: If the people who farmed Chelsith wanted to group with you, then they'd already be doing so.Let people play the game the way that they choose, please.

theriatis

08-17-2011, 05:39 AM

Tradeskill AA Tab:I use the Standard UI. The Tradeskill Tab is there, but its just a small tab (about 1 cm wide) with no Description.Regards, theriatis.

retro_guy

08-17-2011, 05:41 AM

<cite>Elhonas@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Chelsith change is pretty silly, in my opinion. If people want to spend their time grinding away on respawning mobs in an instance, then so what? That doesn't negatively affect my game experience, or anyone else's. It's so tiring, hearing people gripe and complain about how others play the game. For the few who might argue something along the lines of "Now more people will group", think about this: If the people who farmed Chelsith wanted to group with you, then they'd already be doing so.Let people play the game the way that they choose, please.</blockquote>I don't think it's the grinding that he's concerned with it's the AFK AA grinding.e.g. park conj on top of a respawn point and go to work = 12 hours later come home and lots of free AA.Not that I've ever done it, but I can imagine it's quite appealing.

Odys

08-17-2011, 08:13 AM

<cite>retro_guy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Elhonas@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Chelsith change is pretty silly, in my opinion. If people want to spend their time grinding away on respawning mobs in an instance, then so what? That doesn't negatively affect my game experience, or anyone else's. It's so tiring, hearing people gripe and complain about how others play the game. For the few who might argue something along the lines of "Now more people will group", think about this: If the people who farmed Chelsith wanted to group with you, then they'd already be doing so.Let people play the game the way that they choose, please.</blockquote>I don't think it's the grinding that he's concerned with it's the AFK AA grinding.e.g. park conj on top of a respawn point and go to work = 12 hours later come home and lots of free AA.Not that I've ever done it, but I can imagine it's quite appealing.</blockquote>You need a script tool to do that. I tried with my necro since i saw many time necros grinding xp afk. It was very clear they remained at the same spot hours ... i was questing and each time i passed at some spot necro was there with pet killing stuff and many chests around.So i gave a try, pet on defensive actually killed spawning mob quite fast but i got no xp.To qualify for the fill you need at least to perform one action.A small utility that would turn auto attack on is enough for that, a tiny script emulating pushing 1 over and over. Such a tool is against the EULA.

Trensharo

08-17-2011, 09:43 AM

Contents removed by request.

Nevao

08-17-2011, 10:00 AM

Honestly, I'm less concerned about the mechanics (if they have to fix an AFK grind spot they have to do it) and more about what the change is going to do where the xp grinding populations reside. I've used Chelsith, mostly when friends wanted to, but I much prefer other zones. The big issue to me is that Chelsith has acted as a pressure relief valve for XP grinding on x2 weekends. It's a place people can go when contested zones are filled up (which takes very few people). I'm curious how they plan to address that particular issue.But really this thread wasn't meant to be an in and out on one particular issue. Here's to hoping we can get the Devs to answer at least some of the questions (I expect no answers on anything that involves the word balance but I'd be remiss if I didn't ask).

feldon30

08-17-2011, 10:52 AM

Unfortunately, a very good thread is getting dragged down by the Chelsith AA debate.

thewarriorpoet

08-17-2011, 11:06 AM

Agreed. Back on topic. I responce to these would be fantastic. I for one am really worried about the re-itemization and don't want the change to go live if it isn't ready. It will slaughter my alts' gear.

Gungo

08-17-2011, 11:33 AM

<cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote>Honestly, I'm less concerned about the mechanics (if they have to fix an AFK grind spot they have to do it) and more about what the change is going to do where the xp grinding populations reside. I've used Chelsith, mostly when friends wanted to, but I much prefer other zones. The big issue to me is that Chelsith has acted as a pressure relief valve for XP grinding on x2 weekends. It's a place people can go when contested zones are filled up (which takes very few people). I'm curious how they plan to address that particular issue.But really this thread wasn't meant to be an in and out on one particular issue. Here's to hoping we can get the Devs to answer at least some of the questions (I expect no answers on anything that involves the word balance but I'd be remiss if I didn't ask).</blockquote>This game is massive and the low level population is pretty dead anyway. I hardly think the 1 weekend we get every two months is going to cause massive issues.and if it does because those moentored toons are to powerful and clearing entire contested dungeons then its time to nerf mentoring further by increasing the stat reduction to an appropriate level for the tier.... which is long overdue to be honest. Mentoring is several years old mechanic and stat inflation is on a stupidly fast rise and the mentoring % reduction hasnt kept up.I dont see this as an issue and see afk grinding more of a problem.

Nevao

08-17-2011, 11:55 AM

Ok, moving forward can we please keep this to either trying to get questions answered, or adding new questions to the list? All of these questions have respective threads for arguing the merits of pro/cons. This is really meant to give the Dev's a one stop shop for the major open questions we want answered.

Liandra

08-17-2011, 12:41 PM

Crafted items got their first pass back at the end of June. There were a huge number of issues reported the vast majority of which have not had any responce. There have been a couple of minor tweaks (i.e. Wis/Sta rings getting Int added to account for no Mage rings) but the main issues (items not updated. rare items with lower stats than their common equivalent. lack of progression from tier to tier to name but a few) have not even been acknowledged let alone fixed.

Nevao

08-17-2011, 01:40 PM

<cite>Liandra wrote:</cite><blockquote>Crafted items got their first pass back at the end of June. There were a huge number of issues reported the vast majority of which have not had any responce. There have been a couple of minor tweaks (i.e. Wis/Sta rings getting Int added to account for no Mage rings) but the main issues (items not updated. rare items with lower stats than their common equivalent. lack of progression from tier to tier to name but a few) have not even been acknowledged let alone fixed.</blockquote>Added, though if you have some examples it might help to be able to reference them.

Necroponic

08-17-2011, 03:32 PM

<cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would hope so. While it's nice to get Dev comments on things like the Fae Fly quest, the new EW Quest Lines, and Live events there are lot of mechanic/itemization issues that we'll be dealing with for far longer than the time it takes to do those quests.</blockquote>yup, thats about the only feed back from dev's I've seen as well

Necroponic

08-17-2011, 03:46 PM

bump

Silius

08-17-2011, 06:40 PM

<cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>Itemization Changes<ul><li>Tier 3 to T8 revamp? Last time I checked there were still reports of items with insanely out of whack stats given the tier (mid-tier items with 40+ weapon skills for example) and items that were previously open to multiple classes now restricted to just a few (either directly or through stats). Where are we on this and are the devs happy with where it's going? </li></ul></li><li> Stat values are being tweaked and fixed when we find the bugs.</li><li>The goal of reitemize was to make items relevent to our current mechanics. This means that items will become polarized to the more archetypical setup we use now.<ul><li>What is going on with Tier 9 items? It was our understanding that SF gear was not being touched this pass and nothing was discussed about DoV. But now we're seeing all kinds of changes to off hands (stat changes, red/yellow adornment slots being removed) that are not making sense to the community. Can we get someone to weigh in on what's gong on?</li></ul></li><li>Offhand items that were indirectly modified should be fixed. If you are still finding issues with them please PM me. <ul><li>Mastercrafted Armor: Though technically not part of this release there are reports that there still serious kinks in the progression of Master Crafted Armor (working to get examples). Is this going to be addressed as part of this release?</li></ul></li><li>Like the rest of the items that have been updated there are still bugs. I am working through the last few bugs atm.<ul><li>Melee Priests: With all these changes, what is being done for the melee priest option? Roughly half of the priests subclasses have Melee Tuned AA (look at Wardens for example) but there is no gear to support this play style. With Spell auto attack being added this marginalizes this playstyle even more.</li></ul></li><li>This reitemize keeps melee priests in mind by offering them melee stats along with the spell attack counterparts.<ul><li>Spell Auto Attack: <ul><li>Can we get a better feel for the items going in? Right now it's hard tell what the actual effect is going to be since we can only get a few legendary wands.</li><li>Is there going to be any adjustments on existing gear for Spell Auto Attack or will this all be found on new gear</li></ul></li></ul></li><li>Since Velious items are not being updated the new auto attack stats will not appear on them. POW items will have the stats as well as any old world updated items.</li><li>Overcap changes<ul><li>Focus: Is the "Snare" effect really working as intended? Is this being adjusted due to the feedback on how it's changing play styles due to now having to use new methods for spell cancels on jousts?</li></ul><li>Moving while casting has been removed.</li><ul><li>Weapon Skills: I was told when asked these should effect CA min damage but they do not appear to be (unles this was an undocumented change last night). Was this a misunderstanding, or is it simply not working yet?</li></ul><li>Will look into this.</li></li></ul></blockquote>Responses in red, sorry for the wait. Thanks for the great post. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />

ShadowMunkie

08-17-2011, 06:44 PM

<cite>Silius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>Itemization Changes<ul><li>Tier 3 to T8 revamp? Last time I checked there were still reports of items with insanely out of whack stats given the tier (mid-tier items with 40+ weapon skills for example) and items that were previously open to multiple classes now restricted to just a few (either directly or through stats). Where are we on this and are the devs happy with where it's going? </li></ul></li><li> Stat values are being tweaked and fixed when we find the bugs.</li><li>The goal of reitemize was to make items relevent to our current mechanics. This means that items will become polarized to the more archetypical setup we use now.<ul><li>What is going on with Tier 9 items? It was our understanding that SF gear was not being touched this pass and nothing was discussed about DoV. But now we're seeing all kinds of changes to off hands (stat changes, red/yellow adornment slots being removed) that are not making sense to the community. Can we get someone to weigh in on what's gong on?</li></ul></li><li>Offhand items that were indirectly modified should be fixed. If you are still finding issues with them please PM me. <ul><li>Mastercrafted Armor: Though technically not part of this release there are reports that there still serious kinks in the progression of Master Crafted Armor (working to get examples). Is this going to be addressed as part of this release?</li></ul></li><li>Like the rest of the items that have been updated there are still bugs. I am working through the last few bugs atm.<ul><li>Melee Priests: With all these changes, what is being done for the melee priest option? Roughly half of the priests subclasses have Melee Tuned AA (look at Wardens for example) but there is no gear to support this play style. With Spell auto attack being added this marginalizes this playstyle even more.</li></ul></li><li>This reitemize keeps melee priests in mind by offering them melee stats along with the spell attack counterparts.<ul><li>Spell Auto Attack: <ul><li>Can we get a better feel for the items going in? Right now it's hard tell what the actual effect is going to be since we can only get a few legendary wands.</li><li>Is there going to be any adjustments on existing gear for Spell Auto Attack or will this all be found on new gear</li></ul></li></ul></li><li>Since Velious items are not being updated the new auto attack stats will not appear on them. POW items will have the stats as well as any old world updated items.</li><li>Overcap changes<ul><li>Focus: Is the "Snare" effect really working as intended? Is this being adjusted due to the feedback on how it's changing play styles due to now having to use new methods for spell cancels on jousts?</li></ul></li><li>Moving while casting has been removed.<ul><li>Weapon Skills: I was told when asked these should effect CA min damage but they do not appear to be (unles this was an undocumented change last night). Was this a misunderstanding, or is it simply not working yet?</li></ul></li><li>Will look into this.</li></ul></blockquote>Responses in red, sorry for the wait. Thanks for the great post. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Silus you do realise that some DoV items have been changed. See the other thread for a list of them.<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=504781" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=504781</a>

Gninja

08-17-2011, 06:46 PM

If you have specific examples please PM them to us. We can take alook at them on a case by case basis. I should also be available on the test server looking for feedback/issues in the next day or two. Thanks for the work you guys have put into it thus far!I also ask that you make sure they are still a valid issue before sending the info as we have caught a bunch of the issues and already pushed them to test server with the fixes applied.

ShadowMunkie

08-17-2011, 06:50 PM

<cite>Gninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you have specific examples please PM them to us. We can take alook at them on a case by case basis. I should also be available on the test server looking for feedback/issues in the next day or two. Thanks for the work you guys have put into it thus far!I also ask that you make sure they are still a valid issue before sending the info as we have caught a bunch of the issues and already pushed them to test server with the fixes applied.</blockquote>Okay, so I am assuming by this statement that if there are issues on test still with items we should PM you the names since this tells me that all the items in your list has already made it to the test server. If this is incorrect please let me know when you push them to test and I'll send in my report to you.

Gaige

08-17-2011, 07:00 PM

<blockquote><cite>Silius wrote:</cite><ul><li>This means that items will become polarized to the more archetypical setup we use now.</li></ul></blockquote>Soooo the one thing everyone hated about DoV itemization is now being used throughout the entire game =x

LardLord

08-17-2011, 07:07 PM

Odys

08-17-2011, 07:32 PM

<cite>Silius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li><ul><li>Melee Priests: With all these changes, what is being done for the melee priest option? Roughly half of the priests subclasses have Melee Tuned AA (look at Wardens for example) but there is no gear to support this play style. With Spell auto attack being added this marginalizes this playstyle even more.</li></ul></li><li>This reitemize keeps melee priests in mind by offering them melee stats along with the spell attack counterparts.</li></ul></blockquote></blockquote>May be some hope <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Let's wait and see.Btw you did not replied about class concerns, i see soon guild raiding with 3-4 inquisitors , no templar , possibly a warden if they are breaking content. How do you justify that we have only 10 aas usefull at 90 in the warden tree but need to spend 70 to reach the good AAs which are all on the SF line ?I Know well fury/coercer/paladin/mystic subclass trees and none is as bad, it's not even close.

Liandra

08-17-2011, 07:53 PM

<cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Liandra wrote:</cite><blockquote>Crafted items got their first pass back at the end of June. There were a huge number of issues reported the vast majority of which have not had any responce. There have been a couple of minor tweaks (i.e. Wis/Sta rings getting Int added to account for no Mage rings) but the main issues (items not updated. rare items with lower stats than their common equivalent. lack of progression from tier to tier to name but a few) have not even been acknowledged let alone fixed.</blockquote>Added, though if you have some examples it might help to be able to reference them.</blockquote>Ok, current examples from test copy at the time of this post.<ul><li>Missed Items: Rok Faction recipes. KoS Nest recipes. TSO Shard armor (not only crafted but still worth mentioning). DGC Blood Iron armor. All T6-T9 Jeweler crafted secondary slot items. Amber Arcane/Noxious/Elemental Signet/Stud to name but a few.</li><li>Rare crafted hex dolls are handcrafted rather than master crafted and the stats slightly lower than the common ones</li><li>MC Progression. taking MC Imbued Tranquil Robe as an example on a lvl 90 toon<ul><li>Lvl 12: 8 Int / 9 Sta</li><li>Lvl 22: 9 Int / 11 Sta / 4 Focus</li><li>Lvl 32: 14 Int / 12 Sta / 6 Dis / 6 Subj / 0.8 Pot</li><li>Lvl 42: 16 Int / 20 Sta / 4 Defence / 1 Pot</li><li>Lvl 52: 19 Int / 19 Sta / 2 Defence / 1.3 Pot / 2.3 CB / 1.9 Spell Weapon Attack Speed</li><li>Lvl 62: 28 Int / 23 Sta / 2 Defence / 1.8 Pot / 2.6 CB / 2.4 Ability Cast Speed</li><li>Lvl 72: 29 Int / 28 Sta / 5 Focus / 1.6 Pot / 3.1 CB / 0.7 Spell Weapon DPS / 7 CM</li><li>Lvl 82: 45 Int / 39 Sta / 5 Focus / 3 Dis / 3 Subj / 3.4 Pot / 4.5 CB / 9.4 CM</li></ul></li></ul>You seem to gain and loose stats at random. There is also a huge jump in Int/Sta when you hit t9 instead of a smooth progression. Also why are T6 and T8 the only ones with spell auto attack stats.

Phaedrella

08-17-2011, 09:36 PM

What exactly does it mean to "polarize" something "to" something else? Like, will items be brought into contact with the current "archetypical setup" only to fly apart with a violent explosion? Sounds like a pretty apt description of this GU, come to think of it.Anyway, there's more than snark behind my words, and more than rickety diction at issue here. I fear we'll all be cleaning up the debris for many months to come. It's not only that many of these changes (mechanics, itemization, AA) have exceedingly questionable merit; they're happening all at once. Why not simply fix bugs, revamp old quest lines, and refresh AAs, rather than turn Thundering Steppes into an awkward hodgepodge of seven-year-old quests with Othmir Lite rewards?

acctlc

08-17-2011, 10:28 PM

An interesting choice to exclude all DoV items on the spell autoattack feature. Wondering will then a 2 minute questable wand beat out currently available x4 mage symbol drops...including hardmode? I spose the crit chance could force you into using the raid dropped items but still...

Nevao

08-17-2011, 11:35 PM

Silius, Gnija thank you for responding! Hopeefully we get a few more Developers (and a Rothgar) to come in and weigh in on the rest of the questions.

Xalmat

08-18-2011, 12:02 AM

<cite>Silius wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><ul><li>Itemization Changes<ul><li>Tier 3 to T8 revamp? Last time I checked there were still reports of items with insanely out of whack stats given the tier (mid-tier items with 40+ weapon skills for example) and items that were previously open to multiple classes now restricted to just a few (either directly or through stats). Where are we on this and are the devs happy with where it's going? </li></ul></li><li> Stat values are being tweaked and fixed when we find the bugs.</li><li>The goal of reitemize was to make items relevent to our current mechanics. This means that items will become polarized to the more archetypical setup we use now.<ul><li>What is going on with Tier 9 items? It was our understanding that SF gear was not being touched this pass and nothing was discussed about DoV. But now we're seeing all kinds of changes to off hands (stat changes, red/yellow adornment slots being removed) that are not making sense to the community. Can we get someone to weigh in on what's gong on?</li></ul></li><li>Offhand items that were indirectly modified should be fixed. If you are still finding issues with them please PM me. <ul><li>Mastercrafted Armor: Though technically not part of this release there are reports that there still serious kinks in the progression of Master Crafted Armor (working to get examples). Is this going to be addressed as part of this release?</li></ul></li><li>Like the rest of the items that have been updated there are still bugs. I am working through the last few bugs atm.<ul><li>Melee Priests: With all these changes, what is being done for the melee priest option? Roughly half of the priests subclasses have Melee Tuned AA (look at Wardens for example) but there is no gear to support this play style. With Spell auto attack being added this marginalizes this playstyle even more.</li></ul></li><li>This reitemize keeps melee priests in mind by offering them melee stats along with the spell attack counterparts.<ul><li>Spell Auto Attack: <ul><li>Can we get a better feel for the items going in? Right now it's hard tell what the actual effect is going to be since we can only get a few legendary wands.</li><li>Is there going to be any adjustments on existing gear for Spell Auto Attack or will this all be found on new gear</li></ul></li></ul></li><li>Since Velious items are not being updated the new auto attack stats will not appear on them. POW items will have the stats as well as any old world updated items.</li></ul></blockquote></blockquote>Not touching Sentinel's Fate gear is a mistake. Also not adding Spell Auto Attack stats to existing DoV gear and not adding melee priest stats to existing DoV gear is a mistake.

DuneWarrior

08-18-2011, 12:24 AM

<cite>Silius wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><ul><li>This reitemize keeps melee priests in mind by offering them melee stats along with the spell attack counterparts.</li></ul></blockquote>Responses in red, sorry for the wait. Thanks for the great post. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Silius, you might be right on old world items but since your not reitemizing DoV .. then its like saying "we fixed, but not for you" ...

Trensharo

08-18-2011, 01:08 AM

Well they removed Moving While casting. At least that's a step in the right direction...And 5 steps back in the wrong direction..../blinks

Bekkr

08-18-2011, 03:39 AM

<cite>Phaedrella wrote:</cite><blockquote>What exactly does it mean to "polarize" something "to" something else? Like, will items be brought into contact with the current "archetypical setup" only to fly apart with a violent explosion? Sounds like a pretty apt description of this GU, come to think of it.Anyway, there's more than snark behind my words, and more than rickety diction at issue here. I fear we'll all be cleaning up the debris for many months to come. It's not only that many of these changes (mechanics, itemization, AA) have exceedingly questionable merit; they're happening all at once. Why not simply fix bugs, revamp old quest lines, and refresh AAs, rather than turn Thundering Steppes into an awkward hodgepodge of seven-year-old quests with Othmir Lite rewards?</blockquote>That is not only very well put, but reflects my thoughts on the matter pretty much exactly.So, like, QFE and stuff.Also this:<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><cite>Silius wrote:</cite><ul><li>This means that items will become polarized to the more archetypical setup we use now.</li></ul></blockquote>Soooo the one thing everyone hated about DoV itemization is now being used throughout the entire game =x</blockquote>Seems so.

Trensharo

08-18-2011, 04:18 AM

Devs are obviously out of touch.

Valentina

08-18-2011, 04:54 AM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><cite>Silius wrote:</cite><ul><li>This means that items will become polarized to the more archetypical setup we use now.</li></ul></blockquote>Soooo the one thing everyone hated about DoV itemization is now being used throughout the entire game =x</blockquote>Have to say I would love to see this change back to be armour material (plate vs. chain vs. whatever) based instead.We were doing some of the Kunark instances (charasis, chelsith, etc.) today, and reminded of how much more interesting the itemization there is when compared to our velious gear which gains 0.1-0.3 in a given blue stat fom linear upgrade to linear upgrade.

Faeward

08-18-2011, 07:09 AM

Hopefully they will keep the interesting effects and procs on some of the older gear. People used to strive for those.

LivelyHound

08-18-2011, 07:39 AM

<cite>Arieva@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>An interesting choice to exclude all DoV items on the spell autoattack feature. Wondering will then a 2 minute questable wand beat out currently available x4 mage symbol drops...including hardmode? I spose the crit chance could force you into using the raid dropped items but still..</blockquote>Quick question are there any wands that activate spell auto attack below lvl 90? Because I could find no mastercrafted ones. All these SAA blue stats are nice and all to have on your gear if you can find a wand to actviate them.Thus it would follow that if there are low level items with SAA stats there should be low level wands but I didn't see any yet. I might of course just have missed the questline or whatever or misunderstand how that SAA gets activated. If not and the only wands are lvl 90 and the only stats that buff them are on lvl 80 or below gear... well you see the problem.

daray

08-18-2011, 07:52 AM

arieste

08-18-2011, 08:50 AM

<cite>Silius wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><ul><li>Moving while casting has been removed.</li></ul></blockquote></blockquote>What are priests getting instead? Seems healers are being totally overlooked with these changes. all the classes now get some kind of auto-attack, but there is no "auto-heal" for the healers, so we're no better off at doing our jobs. (Auto-spell attack doesn't help healers heal any better.) (Not that there should be, auto-heal would be as stupid auto-spell attack if not more, i'm just saying - what do healers have to look forward to here?)

thegriss

08-18-2011, 09:46 AM

<cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Silius wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><ul><li></li><li><ul><li>Melee Priests: With all these changes, what is being done for the melee priest option? Roughly half of the priests subclasses have Melee Tuned AA (look at Wardens for example) but there is no gear to support this play style. With Spell auto attack being added this marginalizes this playstyle even more.</li></ul></li><li>This reitemize keeps melee priests in mind by offering them melee stats along with the spell attack counterparts.<ul><li>Spell Auto Attack: <ul><li>Can we get a better feel for the items going in? Right now it's hard tell what the actual effect is going to be since we can only get a few legendary wands.</li><li>Is there going to be any adjustments on existing gear for Spell Auto Attack or will this all be found on new gear</li></ul></li></ul></li><li>Since Velious items are not being updated the new auto attack stats will not appear on them. POW items will have the stats as well as any old world updated items.</li></ul></blockquote></blockquote>Not touching Sentinel's Fate gear is a mistake. Also not adding Spell Auto Attack stats to existing DoV gear and not adding melee priest stats to existing DoV gear is a mistake.</blockquote>Not updating existing DOV gear...

daray

08-18-2011, 09:55 AM

<cite>Silius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li><ul><li>Spell Auto Attack: <ul><li>Can we get a better feel for the items going in? Right now it's hard tell what the actual effect is going to be since we can only get a few legendary wands.</li><li>Is there going to be any adjustments on existing gear for Spell Auto Attack or will this all be found on new gear</li></ul></li></ul></li><li>Since Velious items are not being updated the new auto attack stats will not appear on them. POW items will have the stats as well as any old world updated items.</li></ul></blockquote>Responses in red, sorry for the wait. Thanks for the great post. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>This is unnecessarily lazy. How long would it take to update the dozen or so fabled, raid-dropped, ranged symbols for priests/mages? Please?

Banditman

08-18-2011, 10:02 AM

<cite>daray wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Silius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li><ul><li>Spell Auto Attack: <ul><li>Can we get a better feel for the items going in? Right now it's hard tell what the actual effect is going to be since we can only get a few legendary wands.</li><li>Is there going to be any adjustments on existing gear for Spell Auto Attack or will this all be found on new gear</li></ul></li></ul></li><li>Since Velious items are not being updated the new auto attack stats will not appear on them. POW items will have the stats as well as any old world updated items.</li></ul></blockquote>Responses in red, sorry for the wait. Thanks for the great post. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>This is unnecessarily lazy. How long would it take to update the dozen or so fabled, raid-dropped, ranged symbols for priests/mages? Please?</blockquote>People who have these raid dropped Symbols cannot afford to drop what they have for the new quested items. We simply can't take that hit to our crit rate.

CoLD MeTaL

08-18-2011, 10:12 AM

Do you get the feeling their "one year plan" is a dartboard?

Geothe

08-18-2011, 10:40 AM

<cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Silius wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><ul><li>Itemization Changes<ul><li>Tier 3 to T8 revamp? Last time I checked there were still reports of items with insanely out of whack stats given the tier (mid-tier items with 40+ weapon skills for example) and items that were previously open to multiple classes now restricted to just a few (either directly or through stats). Where are we on this and are the devs happy with where it's going?</li></ul></li><li> Stat values are being tweaked and fixed when we find the bugs.</li><li>The goal of reitemize was to make items relevent to our current mechanics. This means that items will become polarized to the more archetypical setup we use now.<ul><li>What is going on with Tier 9 items? It was our understanding that SF gear was not being touched this pass and nothing was discussed about DoV. But now we're seeing all kinds of changes to off hands (stat changes, red/yellow adornment slots being removed) that are not making sense to the community. Can we get someone to weigh in on what's gong on?</li></ul></li><li>Offhand items that were indirectly modified should be fixed. If you are still finding issues with them please PM me. <ul><li>Mastercrafted Armor: Though technically not part of this release there are reports that there still serious kinks in the progression of Master Crafted Armor (working to get examples). Is this going to be addressed as part of this release?</li></ul></li><li>Like the rest of the items that have been updated there are still bugs. I am working through the last few bugs atm.<ul><li>Melee Priests: With all these changes, what is being done for the melee priest option? Roughly half of the priests subclasses have Melee Tuned AA (look at Wardens for example) but there is no gear to support this play style. With Spell auto attack being added this marginalizes this playstyle even more.</li></ul></li><li>This reitemize keeps melee priests in mind by offering them melee stats along with the spell attack counterparts.<ul><li>Spell Auto Attack: <ul><li>Can we get a better feel for the items going in? Right now it's hard tell what the actual effect is going to be since we can only get a few legendary wands.</li><li>Is there going to be any adjustments on existing gear for Spell Auto Attack or will this all be found on new gear</li></ul></li></ul></li><li>Since Velious items are not being updated the new auto attack stats will not appear on them. POW items will have the stats as well as any old world updated items.</li></ul></blockquote></blockquote>Not touching Sentinel's Fate gear is a mistake. Also not adding Spell Auto Attack stats to existing DoV gear and not adding melee priest stats to existing DoV gear is a mistake.</blockquote>QFT.What kind of backwards, twisted logic are you using thinking adding in a whole new mechanic, and stat-set to the game, but NOT including it in CURRENT CONTENT is a good idea?!!?Seriously, how can anyone be that out of touch?!If you dont have time to itemize current stuff with this GU, then hold EVERYTHING back until it is ALL done correctly.But no, as per usual, you think doing it half-way job is good enough. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />

Faeward

08-18-2011, 10:48 AM

Maybe they will update Velious gear in GU62 with the new stats.So I guess for the time being if we want to get the nice new shiny stats, we will have to revert to old Sentinel's Fate gear. Either that, or use the new Thraell Gorr stuff?

Bremer

08-18-2011, 11:43 AM

A few things:<ul><li>parry skill is supposed to give extra parry chance and defense skill extra dodge chance, but the avoidance in the character window doesn't display uncontested parry and dodge, only uncontested block. Those skills should be added</li><li>getting over 200 haste will raise your flurry chance, but the haste tool tip won't say you how much and it doesn't even mention, that haste grants flurry at all. This information should be included</li><li>the multi attack tool tips says "You will attack 1 additonal times and have a x chance for an additonal attack". Even if you have over 200 or 300 MA it still only says 1 additonal times, not 2 or 3</li><li>at 0 dps mod and strikethrough the numbers are displayed red and negative</li><li>the haste to flurry and the MA curve were adjusted, but the post with over cap conversions wasn't updated to reflect the change.</li></ul>

Griffildur

08-18-2011, 12:05 PM

I really dread this GU. As usual it will be nothing we needed and it will more than likely break the game for months, again.Thanx for that devs, awesome job, yet again.P.S Even monkeys learn quicker btw.

Yimway

08-18-2011, 12:23 PM

<cite>Silius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>Overcap changes<ul><li>Focus: Is the "Snare" effect really working as intended? Is this being adjusted due to the feedback on how it's changing play styles due to now having to use new methods for spell cancels on jousts?</li></ul></li><li>Moving while casting has been removed.</li></ul></blockquote></blockquote>I _really_ hate that an interesting new feature is being removed cause people find pressing a different button to do the same thing difficult.

Nevao

08-18-2011, 12:28 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Silius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>Overcap changes<ul><li>Focus: Is the "Snare" effect really working as intended? Is this being adjusted due to the feedback on how it's changing play styles due to now having to use new methods for spell cancels on jousts?</li></ul></li><li>Moving while casting has been removed.</li></ul></blockquote></blockquote>I _really_ hate that an interesting new feature is being removed cause people find pressing a different button to do the same thing difficult.</blockquote>Personally I found the Snare far more frustrating than not being able to cast on the move. You can adjust to the cancel issue, but I was just not able to get the speed up to a meaningful amount to make it useful. At least for my situation.I'm hoping they do though find another use for this style of mechanic. What I think would be interesting to see would be focus allows you x seconds of movement before it interrupts you. That way people could still move as needed and they might be able to get things off but the current mechanics that people have know for 7 someodd years would still be in place.

Ge'Sar

08-18-2011, 01:03 PM

<cite>Silius wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><ul><li><ul><li>Spell Auto Attack: <ul><li>Can we get a better feel for the items going in? Right now it's hard tell what the actual effect is going to be since we can only get a few legendary wands.</li><li>Is there going to be any adjustments on existing gear for Spell Auto Attack or will this all be found on new gear</li></ul></li></ul></li><li>Since Velious items are not being updated the new auto attack stats will not appear on them. POW items will have the stats as well as any old world updated items.</li></ul></blockquote></blockquote>Wait, so you're putting in a new mechanic, regearing all the old underleveled items for it, but not putting any on the current gear people are actually using?Please tell me I misunderstand that. If not, please tell me who decides your time management tasks. Some days I just cannot comprehend the logic that goes into the decision making process over there.

Ge'Sar

08-18-2011, 01:04 PM

Yimway

08-18-2011, 01:08 PM

<cite>GeSar wrote:</cite><blockquote>{0}</blockquote>When you only need to adjust a couple meters to be in direct heal range when your group heal is casting? When your a caster and the mob moves slightly out of auto attack range and its not worth stopping casting to reposition, but moving while casting will return auto's hitting?I can think of many situations this would be 'nice'.

Trensharo

08-18-2011, 01:20 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>GeSar wrote:</cite><blockquote>{0}</blockquote>When you only need to adjust a couple meters to be in direct heal range when your group heal is casting? When your a caster and the mob moves slightly out of auto attack range and its not worth stopping casting to reposition, but moving while casting will return auto's hitting?I can think of many situations this would be 'nice'.</blockquote>It wasn't interesting, and it was broken.I can't think of any situations where it would be nice for me. None whatsoever.You can already move 1-2 meters without interrupting a spell, which works well enough for me at the moment because it means if I have to joust near the end of a spell cast I almost always get it off - at full speed.

Neskonlith

08-18-2011, 01:22 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Silius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>Overcap changes<ul><li>Focus: Is the "Snare" effect really working as intended? Is this being adjusted due to the feedback on how it's changing play styles due to now having to use new methods for spell cancels on jousts?</li></ul></li><li>Moving while casting has been removed.</li></ul></blockquote></blockquote>I _really_ hate that an interesting new feature is being removed cause people find pressing a different button to do the same thing difficult.</blockquote>Why can't a new buff be introduced that allows this movement? That way players who wish to move while casting are allowed to, while long-term players who cannot bring themselves to enjoy the change can completely ignore it?Such an optional-cast buff makes everyone on both sides of the issue happy!<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Gaige

08-18-2011, 01:25 PM

I'm actually truthfully dreading GU61. Its like another LU13 all over again.

Necroponic

08-18-2011, 01:27 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>daray wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Silius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li><ul><li>Spell Auto Attack: <ul><li>Can we get a better feel for the items going in? Right now it's hard tell what the actual effect is going to be since we can only get a few legendary wands.</li><li>Is there going to be any adjustments on existing gear for Spell Auto Attack or will this all be found on new gear</li></ul></li></ul></li><li>Since Velious items are not being updated the new auto attack stats will not appear on them. POW items will have the stats as well as any old world updated items.</li></ul></blockquote>Responses in red, sorry for the wait. Thanks for the great post. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>This is unnecessarily lazy. How long would it take to update the dozen or so fabled, raid-dropped, ranged symbols for priests/mages? Please?</blockquote>People who have these raid dropped Symbols cannot afford to drop what they have for the new quested items. We simply can't take that hit to our crit rate.</blockquote>The quest lego wand is junk.........I guess it going to be a long time before I get to enjoy the new spell auto. I don't want to loose a red slot and 17% crit for 1-3k dmg every 6 seconds.

thewarriorpoet

08-18-2011, 01:33 PM

<cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Silius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>Overcap changes<ul><li>Focus: Is the "Snare" effect really working as intended? Is this being adjusted due to the feedback on how it's changing play styles due to now having to use new methods for spell cancels on jousts?</li></ul></li><li>Moving while casting has been removed.</li></ul></blockquote></blockquote>I _really_ hate that an interesting new feature is being removed cause people find pressing a different button to do the same thing difficult.</blockquote>Why can't a new buff be introduced that allows this movement? That way players who wish to move while casting are allowed to, while long-term players who cannot bring themselves to enjoy the change can completely ignore it?Such an optional-cast buff makes everyone on both sides of the issue happy!<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Brillient. It's simple and gives poeple a choice. I love it.

Banditman

08-18-2011, 01:47 PM

It wasn't the potential to move while casting that was broken, it was the implimentation of the mechanic that was so totally screwed up that it was more trouble (by far!) than it was worth.There are TONS of ways that the mechanic could be implimented that would rock. Unfortunately, what was chosen was the way that [exerted a vacuum type pressure].What would work:1. A chance, when you initially start to move, for your focus skill to allow the completion of the CURRENTLY CASTING spell. To me, this is absolutely the best way to do it. Pass the check, you continue casting and complete the cast, fail the check, and your spell is interrupted. Just like it is now, but better. The higher you are over Focus cap, the greater chance that you will pass the check.2. A sliding scale that allows you to cast spells of a given cast time, depending on how far over the Focus cap you might be. For instance, 200 over the cap and you can cast a .5 second spell on the move. 500 over, you can cast a 1 second spell on the move. Basically, over cap Focus gives you a specific amount of time you can move BEFORE you interrupt yourself.3. A "Steadfast" type buff that gets put on you while you are standing still that allows you to cast for a period of time without being interrupted by movement. The buff refreshes every so often while standing still, and lasts for a duration based on your over cap Focus skill. While you are moving the buff does not get re-applied.ANYTHING but snaring a caster!Look, if I am casting a Group Heal or whatever and I need to make a 2m adjustment, with the current implimentation I can START to make that adjustment, but, I still wind up needing to finish the adjustment after the cast is complete. This is even MORE annoying than having to wait, because now I am dealing with moving at two DIFFERENT speeds. I usually end up overshooting my mark and having to adjust backwards. It's just dumb and unfun the way it was implimented.

Ge'Sar

08-18-2011, 02:08 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>GeSar wrote:</cite><blockquote>{0}</blockquote>When you only need to adjust a couple meters to be in direct heal range when your group heal is casting? When your a caster and the mob moves slightly out of auto attack range and its not worth stopping casting to reposition, but moving while casting will return auto's hitting?I can think of many situations this would be 'nice'.</blockquote>You could not move a couple meters before your group heal went off. Much faster to move while not casting to get in range. I think you don't grasp the casting while rooted aspect of this plan they put forth.

Neskonlith

08-18-2011, 02:16 PM

SOE would probably please more players by introducing an optional-use buff of casting-while-moving.Giving a choice to use would likely please most everyone, except perhaps those who are determined not to be pleased by anything.

Geothe

08-18-2011, 02:56 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm actually truthfully dreading GU61. Its like another LU13 all over again.</blockquote>This, but worse because the people directing the current GU61 changes even have less of a clue about how the game truely works than those that did LU13.I honestly cant comprehend why some people are in the position of authority they are, while being so totally innept.

Anklesteiner

08-18-2011, 04:48 PM

Goodbye Necromancer's and Conjurer's. Glad to see after two expansions, finally getting Summoner's to a point where they can actually add something to a raid/group and now it's all being taken away again. And why? What is the point in nerfing the summoner classes?The AA revamp is stupid, and a lot of classes are going to suffer for it.

IvyBlackrose

08-18-2011, 05:30 PM

Giggity

Gungo

08-18-2011, 06:20 PM

<cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite><blockquote>Goodbye Necromancer's and Conjurer's. Glad to see after two expansions, finally getting Summoner's to a point where they can actually add something to a raid/group and now it's all being taken away again. And why? What is the point in nerfing the summoner classes?The AA revamp is stupid, and a lot of classes are going to suffer for it.</blockquote>um over dramatizing a bit much. The loss of a bit of SDA n your mage pets isnt going to make summoners obsolete.

acctlc

08-18-2011, 06:38 PM

<cite>LivelyHound wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arieva@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>An interesting choice to exclude all DoV items on the spell autoattack feature. Wondering will then a 2 minute questable wand beat out currently available x4 mage symbol drops...including hardmode? I spose the crit chance could force you into using the raid dropped items but still..</blockquote>Quick question are there any wands that activate spell auto attack below lvl 90? Because I could find no mastercrafted ones. All these SAA blue stats are nice and all to have on your gear if you can find a wand to actviate them.Thus it would follow that if there are low level items with SAA stats there should be low level wands but I didn't see any yet. I might of course just have missed the questline or whatever or misunderstand how that SAA gets activated. If not and the only wands are lvl 90 and the only stats that buff them are on lvl 80 or below gear... well you see the problem.</blockquote>The quest for the legendary lvl 90 wand starts in Rygorr camp in EW atm. Which is clearly stuck in the middle of ya know..DoV content. But no raid dropped secondary's will have the feature till Plane of War (which as I understand it is supposed to come after Drunder in progression..is that Drunder EM..Drunder HM...If its drunder HM thats a long way off for 90% of players). Yet a lowbie toon just started can be spellautoattacking from day 1 as I understand it. When they reach DoV content in their journey through Norrath..will they just have to lose spell autoattack for the time or not replace their secondaries??? I've gotta agree this is a bit backwards. You put all the focus on your endgame here..you have for the last 3 xpacs right? So why in the world would you add spell autoattack to the secondaries in old world content and *not* to the content 90% of ppl are using. We don't expect spell autoattack on every piece of armor right away..but even the ability to start spell autoattacking (as lackluster as it will be without stats to modify it) would make sense. Thats a handful of secondaries and should have been budgeted into the timeline before old lvl items.But atm this GU seems terribly cramped for time..as evidenced by the summoner aa revamp and the lack of meaningful tweaks based on feedback. Shove the whole thing back (even GU 62 if you need to..no one was expecting an "xpac" so soon even if it isn't a traditional xpac release) and do it right please!

Anklesteiner

08-18-2011, 08:20 PM

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite><blockquote>Goodbye Necromancer's and Conjurer's. Glad to see after two expansions, finally getting Summoner's to a point where they can actually add something to a raid/group and now it's all being taken away again. And why? What is the point in nerfing the summoner classes?The AA revamp is stupid, and a lot of classes are going to suffer for it.</blockquote>um over dramatizing a bit much. The loss of a bit of SDA n your mage pets isnt going to make summoners obsolete.</blockquote>Yes it will. Depending on how well the Necromancer or Conjy is geared, and how well they play their class, they are looking at anywhere between 20 and 40K DPS loss thanks to the removal of the spell double attack on pets. Perhaps you aren't aware, or don't check ACT, but Mage pets, at least in the case of Necro's account for nearly 70% of our total DPS. Removing Spell Double Attack now nerfs the total DPS the Necro mage pet puts out, which hurts out overall DPSCombine that with the AA changes that take away a lot of power from the mage pet, we're looking at an additional 20-30K DPS loss, which amounts to between 40K and 70K DPS loss for Necro's. So now, instead of my usual 130K parses in raids, I'll now be doing around 70K.That is a huge nerf and will render Summoner's obsolete yet again.

MurFalad

08-18-2011, 09:01 PM

<cite>Liandra wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>MC Progression. taking MC Imbued Tranquil Robe as an example on a lvl 90 toon<ul><li>Lvl 12: 8 Int / 9 Sta</li><li>Lvl 22: 9 Int / 11 Sta / 4 Focus</li><li>Lvl 32: 14 Int / 12 Sta / 6 Dis / 6 Subj / 0.8 Pot</li><li>Lvl 42: 16 Int / 20 Sta / 4 Defence / 1 Pot</li><li>Lvl 52: 19 Int / 19 Sta / 2 Defence / 1.3 Pot / 2.3 CB / 1.9 Spell Weapon Attack Speed</li><li>Lvl 62: 28 Int / 23 Sta / 2 Defence / 1.8 Pot / 2.6 CB / 2.4 Ability Cast Speed</li><li>Lvl 72: 29 Int / 28 Sta / 5 Focus / 1.6 Pot / 3.1 CB / 0.7 Spell Weapon DPS / 7 CM</li><li>Lvl 82: 45 Int / 39 Sta / 5 Focus / 3 Dis / 3 Subj / 3.4 Pot / 4.5 CB / 9.4 CM</li></ul></li></ul>You seem to gain and loose stats at random. There is also a huge jump in Int/Sta when you hit t9 instead of a smooth progression. Also why are T6 and T8 the only ones with spell auto attack stats.</blockquote>The re-itemisation really worries me, I understand why its needed and would like to see it implemented since its currently often not rewarding to run dungeons at certain levels due to the gear being useless. But this change goes well beyond making the stats fit a class.Even in TSO we did not need crit bonus on this level of gear, yet now its being put into content from Desert of Flames onwards, that's going to make players at that level as overpowered to the content as players were during SF to the overland content there. And there were a lot of complaints then (and people getting bored of the easy-mode content).Its going to be negative for grouping since if people can solo things then they are not going to be motivated to form a group, its also bad for gear progression as no one is going to get excited about getting better gear if they cannot find anything that they cannot already solo with their current gear.The players power levels were set for gameplay reasons for those expansions, this blanket change risks making levels 1-86 a snoozefest for even the greenest of players.Its also weird since so much effort has been put into reducing clutter in the stat system, but now each item is getting multiple stats added, why not stick to less stats and leave it to the players to mix and match gear, even if players get it wrong (non-optimal) they're still going to arrive at level 90 just fine.On the postive side though the one thing I did like about the re-itemisation was the slightly randomness to some of the stats, despite this none of the gear is useless, but it does at least give us some variety and the chance for mini upgrades.If they just dropped crit bonus and potency for the vast majority of sub level 80 items I think things would still be a big power upgrade for the lower levels, but it willl leave at least leave some of the heroic content challenging. Some heritage and some choice items can then be OP allowing people to hunt down and find items that are rewarding in that they last for 10's of levels, giving players things to work on acquiring. But just giving everyone effectively better then full fabled for little effort isn't going to leave players with much left to work for except levelling just for the sake of levelling.

MurFalad

08-18-2011, 09:03 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm actually truthfully dreading GU61. Its like another LU13 all over again.</blockquote>Me too on the dreading bit, I never experienced LU13, but I did experience the danger free brain numbingly easy zones of SF where it was safe to AFK for 15 minutes anywhere, and I think these itemisation changes could apply them to 1-80 <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Davngr1

08-18-2011, 09:52 PM

<cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite><blockquote>Goodbye Necromancer's and Conjurer's. Glad to see after two expansions, finally getting Summoner's to a point where they can actually add something to a raid/group and now it's all being taken away again. And why? What is the point in nerfing the summoner classes?The AA revamp is stupid, and a lot of classes are going to suffer for it.</blockquote>um over dramatizing a bit much. The loss of a bit of SDA n your mage pets isnt going to make summoners obsolete.</blockquote>Yes it will. Depending on how well the Necromancer or Conjy is geared, and how well they play their class, they are looking at anywhere between 20 and 40K DPS loss thanks to the removal of the spell double attack on pets. Perhaps you aren't aware, or don't check ACT, but Mage pets, at least in the case of Necro's account for nearly 70% of our total DPS. Removing Spell Double Attack now nerfs the total DPS the Necro mage pet puts out, which hurts out overall DPSCombine that with the AA changes that take away a lot of power from the mage pet, we're looking at an additional 20-30K DPS loss, which amounts to between 40K and 70K DPS loss for Necro's. So now, instead of my usual 130K parses in raids, I'll now be doing around 70K.That is a huge nerf and will render Summoner's obsolete yet again.</blockquote>necro pet is 70% of your parse? what are you doing? sending the pet and afking? for conj the pet is 70% of the parse but not necro uneless the necro is not doing anything.

Anklesteiner

08-18-2011, 11:55 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite><blockquote>Goodbye Necromancer's and Conjurer's. Glad to see after two expansions, finally getting Summoner's to a point where they can actually add something to a raid/group and now it's all being taken away again. And why? What is the point in nerfing the summoner classes?The AA revamp is stupid, and a lot of classes are going to suffer for it.</blockquote>um over dramatizing a bit much. The loss of a bit of SDA n your mage pets isnt going to make summoners obsolete.</blockquote>Yes it will. Depending on how well the Necromancer or Conjy is geared, and how well they play their class, they are looking at anywhere between 20 and 40K DPS loss thanks to the removal of the spell double attack on pets. Perhaps you aren't aware, or don't check ACT, but Mage pets, at least in the case of Necro's account for nearly 70% of our total DPS. Removing Spell Double Attack now nerfs the total DPS the Necro mage pet puts out, which hurts out overall DPSCombine that with the AA changes that take away a lot of power from the mage pet, we're looking at an additional 20-30K DPS loss, which amounts to between 40K and 70K DPS loss for Necro's. So now, instead of my usual 130K parses in raids, I'll now be doing around 70K.That is a huge nerf and will render Summoner's obsolete yet again.</blockquote>necro pet is 70% of your parse? what are you doing? sending the pet and afking? for conj the pet is 70% of the parse but not necro uneless the necro is not doing anything.</blockquote>Aren't you the guy on Crushbone who used to brag about his DPS and offer to not roll/loot anything in groups unless you topped the parse, but you never topped any parse?lol @ you.

Xalmat

08-18-2011, 11:57 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>necro pet is 70% of your parse? what are you doing? sending the pet and afking? for conj the pet is 70% of the parse but not necro uneless the necro is not doing anything.</blockquote>QFE.

Anestacia

08-19-2011, 12:02 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite><blockquote>Goodbye Necromancer's and Conjurer's. Glad to see after two expansions, finally getting Summoner's to a point where they can actually add something to a raid/group and now it's all being taken away again. And why? What is the point in nerfing the summoner classes?The AA revamp is stupid, and a lot of classes are going to suffer for it.</blockquote>um over dramatizing a bit much. The loss of a bit of SDA n your mage pets isnt going to make summoners obsolete.</blockquote>Yes it will. Depending on how well the Necromancer or Conjy is geared, and how well they play their class, they are looking at anywhere between 20 and 40K DPS loss thanks to the removal of the spell double attack on pets. Perhaps you aren't aware, or don't check ACT, but Mage pets, at least in the case of Necro's account for nearly 70% of our total DPS. Removing Spell Double Attack now nerfs the total DPS the Necro mage pet puts out, which hurts out overall DPSCombine that with the AA changes that take away a lot of power from the mage pet, we're looking at an additional 20-30K DPS loss, which amounts to between 40K and 70K DPS loss for Necro's. So now, instead of my usual 130K parses in raids, I'll now be doing around 70K.That is a huge nerf and will render Summoner's obsolete yet again.</blockquote>necro pet is 70% of your parse? what are you doing? sending the pet and afking? for conj the pet is 70% of the parse but not necro uneless the necro is not doing anything.</blockquote>Um, if the necro isn't doing anything then wouldnt that mean the pet is doing 100%? =/ Anyway, the point is still valid. Of all pure DPS classes in this game, summoners seem to have had the longest, hardest road. It took years and years to get the changes needed to compete with other DPS classes of similar gear and w/ shared stats and a few other changes we were finally there. Now we are being knocked back down to lower DPS once again making us "back up choice if you cant find anything else for DPS."Oh but wait, we have all that uber utility so that should make up for it.

Anklesteiner

08-19-2011, 12:25 AM

<cite>Anestacia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite><blockquote>Goodbye Necromancer's and Conjurer's. Glad to see after two expansions, finally getting Summoner's to a point where they can actually add something to a raid/group and now it's all being taken away again. And why? What is the point in nerfing the summoner classes?The AA revamp is stupid, and a lot of classes are going to suffer for it.</blockquote>um over dramatizing a bit much. The loss of a bit of SDA n your mage pets isnt going to make summoners obsolete.</blockquote>Yes it will. Depending on how well the Necromancer or Conjy is geared, and how well they play their class, they are looking at anywhere between 20 and 40K DPS loss thanks to the removal of the spell double attack on pets. Perhaps you aren't aware, or don't check ACT, but Mage pets, at least in the case of Necro's account for nearly 70% of our total DPS. Removing Spell Double Attack now nerfs the total DPS the Necro mage pet puts out, which hurts out overall DPSCombine that with the AA changes that take away a lot of power from the mage pet, we're looking at an additional 20-30K DPS loss, which amounts to between 40K and 70K DPS loss for Necro's. So now, instead of my usual 130K parses in raids, I'll now be doing around 70K.That is a huge nerf and will render Summoner's obsolete yet again.</blockquote>necro pet is 70% of your parse? what are you doing? sending the pet and afking? for conj the pet is 70% of the parse but not necro uneless the necro is not doing anything.</blockquote>Um, if the necro isn't doing anything then wouldnt that mean the pet is doing 100%? =/ Anyway, the point is still valid. Of all pure DPS classes in this game, summoners seem to have had the longest, hardest road. It took years and years to get the changes needed to compete with other DPS classes of similar gear and w/ shared stats and a few other changes we were finally there. Now we are being knocked back down to lower DPS once again making us "back up choice if you cant find anything else for DPS."Oh but wait, we have all that uber utility so that should make up for it.</blockquote>Pretty much. It was nice knowing that we were at least comprable to other DPS classes, but now, summoners will hit the back of the line, again, and be passed over for assassins/swashs and the sorcerer classes...like it was during most of EQ until this recent exnapsion.

Necroponic

08-19-2011, 01:13 AM

<cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite><blockquote>Goodbye Necromancer's and Conjurer's. Glad to see after two expansions, finally getting Summoner's to a point where they can actually add something to a raid/group and now it's all being taken away again. And why? What is the point in nerfing the summoner classes?The AA revamp is stupid, and a lot of classes are going to suffer for it.</blockquote>um over dramatizing a bit much. The loss of a bit of SDA n your mage pets isnt going to make summoners obsolete.</blockquote>Yes it will. Depending on how well the Necromancer or Conjy is geared, and how well they play their class, they are looking at anywhere between 20 and 40K DPS loss thanks to the removal of the spell double attack on pets. Perhaps you aren't aware, or don't check ACT, but Mage pets, at least in the case of Necro's account for nearly 70% of our total DPS. Removing Spell Double Attack now nerfs the total DPS the Necro mage pet puts out, which hurts out overall DPSCombine that with the AA changes that take away a lot of power from the mage pet, we're looking at an additional 20-30K DPS loss, which amounts to between 40K and 70K DPS loss for Necro's. So now, instead of my usual 130K parses in raids, I'll now be doing around 70K.That is a huge nerf and will render Summoner's obsolete yet again.</blockquote>for a necro in a raid pet is actualy 35% of our dmg ( not 70%). 12.8 pet sma is gonna be about 3- 4% of our damage maybe a little more (not 40K or worse). 3 or 4% loss however combined with the fact that we will be giving everyone in the group 7 pot......which realy realy bl_ws. this will be enough to push wizards ahead and locks even further ahead.

Banditman

08-19-2011, 10:10 AM

*sigh*One more time . . .What makes SMA a much better stat is that every other stat you get benefits from it. Every point of potency/crit bonus/ability mod you get, SMA makes it twice as good (when it triggers). This was a major mechanic to help our pets scale up properly.It's no different than melee MA making every point of crit bonus / DPS mod / Haste you get better. When melee MA triggers, all of those bonuses get applied again (and again, and again, and again, etc).Giving us potency doesn't even begin to replace 12.8 SMA, in fact it isn't even close.Now, as to the differences between Summoner pets, they are absolutely 100% imagined. There is literally only a hair of difference between the actual pets. If you'd like to see a comparison, you can <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=479268" target="_blank">click here</a>. Note that the remaining differences in those screenshots (last post in the thread) were determined to have come from AA / Character traits and food. Summoners have identical pets.The reason there "appears" to be a difference is the mechanical way each class uses their pet. A Conjuror spends a great deal of time casting spells that augment the pet, or provide the pet a way to deal additional damage, whereas a Necro simply does his damage directly while his pet does it's own thing.So, for instance, Blazing Avatar is a spell I, as a Conjuror, cast. It goes on my pet and he triggers the procs and gets credit for the damage. Elemental Unity is a spell I cast on myself, and every time I cast a spell, it gives my pet a damage proc. Likewise Elemental Blast is something that I cast, but the pet gets credit for.And that's the real problem for Conjurors. So much of our damage is channeled through the pet, yet for some reason, our pet is far more susceptible to being dead. With a Necro, a pet loss is an inconvenience. For a Conjuror, it's a crippling blow. Yet Necros have the superior method for enhancing their pets survivability.I don't understand it at all. I question whether there is a developer who does.

Trensharo

08-19-2011, 10:35 AM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>*sigh*One more time . . .What makes SMA a much better stat is that every other stat you get benefits from it. Every point of potency/crit bonus/ability mod you get, SMA makes it twice as good (when it triggers). This was a major mechanic to help our pets scale up properly.It's no different than melee MA making every point of crit bonus / DPS mod / Haste you get better. When melee MA triggers, all of those bonuses get applied again (and again, and again, and again, etc).Giving us potency doesn't even begin to replace 12.8 SMA, in fact it isn't even close.Now, as to the differences between Summoner pets, they are absolutely 100% imagined. There is literally only a hair of difference between the actual pets. If you'd like to see a comparison, you can <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=479268" target="_blank">click here</a>. Note that the remaining differences in those screenshots (last post in the thread) were determined to have come from AA / Character traits and food. Summoners have identical pets.The reason there "appears" to be a difference is the mechanical way each class uses their pet. A Conjuror spends a great deal of time casting spells that augment the pet, or provide the pet a way to deal additional damage, whereas a Necro simply does his damage directly while his pet does it's own thing.So, for instance, Blazing Avatar is a spell I, as a Conjuror, cast. It goes on my pet and he triggers the procs and gets credit for the damage. Elemental Unity is a spell I cast on myself, and every time I cast a spell, it gives my pet a damage proc. Likewise Elemental Blast is something that I cast, but the pet gets credit for.And that's the real problem for Conjurors. So much of our damage is channeled through the pet, yet for some reason, our pet is far more susceptible to being dead. With a Necro, a pet loss is an inconvenience. For a Conjuror, it's a crippling blow. Yet Necros have the superior method for enhancing their pets survivability.I don't understand it at all. I question whether there is a developer who does.</blockquote>Summoner-cast buffs are the big things that separate them.However, the pets have different in-built utility. The Necro pet does 1.2k+ HPS to the group with Grim Lifetap and Grim Wave (more with Consumption)Aside from that, the Summon skills share identical damage components except for the alignment differences (Noxious vs. Elemental).Necros were designed to get more through dumbfires, which are technicall pets, but we all know how that has turned out (Vampirism and 3 Class Dumbfire Summons with a potential max of 16 Dumbfire Pets + a Vampiric Orb - disregarding the dumbfire AAs which increase the number).The classes are very similar, just balanced differently. Conjurors withstood the test of time a bit better.

Banditman

08-19-2011, 01:55 PM

[not worth it]

Elskidor

08-19-2011, 02:02 PM

Only a few days left to the new and exciting, and probably one of the most hated GUs of all time. No matter what your class is, just about everyone is mad about something.

Phaedrella

08-19-2011, 03:14 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm actually truthfully dreading GU61. Its like another LU13 all over again.</blockquote>QFE. And what's more, this is coming from a dev team that had appeared half-intent to position itself as the antithesis of the mindset behind that whole mess: poor big-picture thinking, inadequate testing prior to implementation, game design on the basis of whoever can crank out the most decibels in the forum rather than a comprehensive, intelligent, confident, consistent, uncompromising vision.Yet as so many have pointed out, those in charge of game mechanics, class balance, and itemization in particular appear utterly out of touch, and also unwilling or unsure how to keep the macro-level in view while tinkering radically at the micro-level. This will be a disaster on many levels. For a while there I'd foolishly become a little optimistic.

Felshades

08-19-2011, 03:27 PM

<cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><cite>Silius wrote:</cite><ul><li>This means that items will become polarized to the more archetypical setup we use now.</li></ul></blockquote>Soooo the one thing everyone hated about DoV itemization is now being used throughout the entire game =x</blockquote>There's no hope itemization will ever be fun in this game again. Gotta either get used to it or quit.</blockquote>I never found the old way "fun". And I'm pretty sure the devs found the old way "a pain in the rear" or they wouldn't have changed it.

Elskidor

08-19-2011, 03:34 PM

<cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><cite>Silius wrote:</cite><ul><li>This means that items will become polarized to the more archetypical setup we use now.</li></ul></blockquote>Soooo the one thing everyone hated about DoV itemization is now being used throughout the entire game =x</blockquote>There's no hope itemization will ever be fun in this game again. Gotta either get used to it or quit.</blockquote>I never found the old way "fun". And I'm pretty sure the devs found the old way "a pain in the rear" or they wouldn't have changed it.</blockquote>The lazier, the easier, the better, the more boring. Gotchya.

Davngr1

08-19-2011, 03:50 PM

i won't know till i am able to test these aa on live but detonate imo has the potential to become a fusion like spell for us and thus increase dps and is balanced by it's risk factor. i still feel necro should get back the SDA some how.. it's far from over powered for the necro class unless you're delusional and think the necro pet does 70% of your dps.. that was pure lulz

Anklesteiner

08-19-2011, 03:54 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>i won't know till i am able to test these aa on live but detonate imo has the potential to become a fusion like spell for us and thus increase dps and is balanced by it's risk factor. i still feel necro should get back the SDA some how.. it's far from over powered for the necro class unless you're delusional and think the necro pet does 70% of your dps.. that was pure lulz</blockquote>No, what's pure lulz is when you go on your alt Gaiking, and spam 1-9 with your stupidity about the game and watch everybody thoroughly own you.Now that is always hilarious.

Felshades

08-19-2011, 03:54 PM

<cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Silius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>Overcap changes<ul><li>Focus: Is the "Snare" effect really working as intended? Is this being adjusted due to the feedback on how it's changing play styles due to now having to use new methods for spell cancels on jousts?</li></ul></li><li>Moving while casting has been removed.</li></ul></blockquote></blockquote>I _really_ hate that an interesting new feature is being removed cause people find pressing a different button to do the same thing difficult.</blockquote>Personally I found the Snare far more frustrating than not being able to cast on the move. You can adjust to the cancel issue, but I was just not able to get the speed up to a meaningful amount to make it useful. At least for my situation.I'm hoping they do though find another use for this style of mechanic. What I think would be interesting to see would be focus allows you x seconds of movement before it interrupts you. That way people could still move as needed and they might be able to get things off but the current mechanics that people have know for 7 someodd years would still be in place.</blockquote>I'd just like to see them add Vanguards "you can move while casting at a walking speed" and not allow it to use in combat or out of combat speed modifiers.

Geothe

08-19-2011, 03:59 PM

So, this GU is supposed to go live in 4 days.With all of the stuff ruined thus far its going to be an absolute disaster.Not even sure why Mechanics/Itemization stuff is even included on the test server, not like you listen to "feedback"or do jack all to correct what you break anyways!

Davngr1

08-19-2011, 04:36 PM

<cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>i won't know till i am able to test these aa on live but detonate imo has the potential to become a fusion like spell for us and thus increase dps and is balanced by it's risk factor. i still feel necro should get back the SDA some how.. it's far from over powered for the necro class unless you're delusional and think the necro pet does 70% of your dps.. that was pure lulz</blockquote>No, what's pure lulz is when you go on your alt Gaiking, and spam 1-9 with your stupidity about the game and watch everybody thoroughly own you.Now that is always hilarious.</blockquote>personal attacks? i guess we both know who's right along with the rest of the summoner community. butthert moar nub!

Anklesteiner

08-19-2011, 04:47 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>i won't know till i am able to test these aa on live but detonate imo has the potential to become a fusion like spell for us and thus increase dps and is balanced by it's risk factor. i still feel necro should get back the SDA some how.. it's far from over powered for the necro class unless you're delusional and think the necro pet does 70% of your dps.. that was pure lulz</blockquote>No, what's pure lulz is when you go on your alt Gaiking, and spam 1-9 with your stupidity about the game and watch everybody thoroughly own you.Now that is always hilarious.</blockquote>personal attacks? i guess we both know who's right along with the rest of the summoner community. butthert moar nub!</blockquote>You were also the guy during TSO who said lifeburn was useless and any Necro that uses it needed to reroll.And personal attack? No. I'm simply stating the truth that whenever you decide to talk about the game in 1-9 everyone proves everything you say wrong and you wind up looking like an idiot who knows nothing about the game - much like you are demonstrating here.Necro pets do account for around 60-70% of our total DPS when you factor in Soulburn, or did you completely forget about that? Taking away the spell double attack as well as all the changes to the AA line that completely nerfs our Mage pet we're looking at a net loss of our 60K of our total DPS, which puts us back around where most healers parse if they are actually trying.But you probably don't run ACT and probably don't look at everything and actually analyze the raw data.

Felshades

08-19-2011, 05:12 PM

<cite>MurFalad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm actually truthfully dreading GU61. Its like another LU13 all over again.</blockquote>Me too on the dreading bit, I never experienced LU13, but I did experience the danger free brain numbingly easy zones of SF where it was safe to AFK for 15 minutes anywhere, and I think these itemisation changes could apply them to 1-80 <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>You can already do this in just about any overland zone atm.There will be 0 difference.

Felshades

08-19-2011, 05:15 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>*sigh*One more time . . .What makes SMA a much better stat is that every other stat you get benefits from it. Every point of potency/crit bonus/ability mod you get, SMA makes it twice as good (when it triggers). This was a major mechanic to help our pets scale up properly.It's no different than melee MA making every point of crit bonus / DPS mod / Haste you get better. When melee MA triggers, all of those bonuses get applied again (and again, and again, and again, etc).Giving us potency doesn't even begin to replace 12.8 SMA, in fact it isn't even close.Now, as to the differences between Summoner pets, they are absolutely 100% imagined. There is literally only a hair of difference between the actual pets. If you'd like to see a comparison, you can <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=479268" target="_blank">click here</a>. Note that the remaining differences in those screenshots (last post in the thread) were determined to have come from AA / Character traits and food. Summoners have identical pets.The reason there "appears" to be a difference is the mechanical way each class uses their pet. A Conjuror spends a great deal of time casting spells that augment the pet, or provide the pet a way to deal additional damage, whereas a Necro simply does his damage directly while his pet does it's own thing.So, for instance, Blazing Avatar is a spell I, as a Conjuror, cast. It goes on my pet and he triggers the procs and gets credit for the damage. Elemental Unity is a spell I cast on myself, and every time I cast a spell, it gives my pet a damage proc. Likewise Elemental Blast is something that I cast, but the pet gets credit for.And that's the real problem for Conjurors. So much of our damage is channeled through the pet, yet for some reason, our pet is far more susceptible to being dead. With a Necro, a pet loss is an inconvenience. For a Conjuror, it's a crippling blow. Yet Necros have the superior method for enhancing their pets survivability.I don't understand it at all. I question whether there is a developer who does.</blockquote>With all that damage being channelled through the pet, no wonder he's always ripping aggro and planting in the dirt.

Felshades

08-19-2011, 05:20 PM

<cite>Elskidor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><cite>Silius wrote:</cite><ul><li>This means that items will become polarized to the more archetypical setup we use now.</li></ul></blockquote>Soooo the one thing everyone hated about DoV itemization is now being used throughout the entire game =x</blockquote>There's no hope itemization will ever be fun in this game again. Gotta either get used to it or quit.</blockquote>I never found the old way "fun". And I'm pretty sure the devs found the old way "a pain in the rear" or they wouldn't have changed it.</blockquote>The lazier, the easier, the better, the more boring. Gotchya.</blockquote>You liked useless stats on your gear. Gotcha.You play a melee priest, don't you? They seem to be the biggest whiners about the stat change.And yes, I have one. However I made a priest to heal, not dps. I could give half a rat's about the inability to do dps on her in a style that really doesn't matter because id rather see priests go back to 'sit in the back and cast heals'.But whatever. My mage had 0 reason to want agi on her gear. STR was useless save letting me be able to carry stuff, but since I played 5+ years with next to no str I learned to NOT carry stuff. Wis resists were so pitiful it wasn't even funny. Tell me again why I want those pretty useless stats on my gear?And don't get me started on rogues and preds needing INT to scale poisons.

Phaedrella

08-19-2011, 05:20 PM

<cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite>With all that damage being channelled through the pet, no wonder he's always ripping aggro and planting in the dirt.</blockquote>Yeah, it's a pain.

Gaige

08-19-2011, 05:34 PM

<cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>However I made a priest to heal, not dps. I could give half a rat's about the inability to do dps on her in a style that really doesn't matter because id rather see priests go back to 'sit in the back and cast heals'.</blockquote>Oh you're one of those

Talathion

08-19-2011, 05:35 PM

<cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Silius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>Overcap changes<ul><li>Focus: Is the "Snare" effect really working as intended? Is this being adjusted due to the feedback on how it's changing play styles due to now having to use new methods for spell cancels on jousts?</li></ul></li><li>Moving while casting has been removed.</li></ul></blockquote></blockquote>I _really_ hate that an interesting new feature is being removed cause people find pressing a different button to do the same thing difficult.</blockquote>Personally I found the Snare far more frustrating than not being able to cast on the move. You can adjust to the cancel issue, but I was just not able to get the speed up to a meaningful amount to make it useful. At least for my situation.I'm hoping they do though find another use for this style of mechanic. What I think would be interesting to see would be focus allows you x seconds of movement before it interrupts you. That way people could still move as needed and they might be able to get things off but the current mechanics that people have know for 7 someodd years would still be in place.</blockquote>I'd just like to see them add Vanguards "you can move while casting at a walking speed" and not allow it to use in combat or out of combat speed modifiers.</blockquote>because this game has sooo many in combat speed modifier gear/aa (not really :/)

Ragefighter

08-19-2011, 05:57 PM

<cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>You play a melee priest, don't you? They seem to be the biggest whiners about the stat change.And yes, I have one. However I made a priest to heal, not dps. I could give half a rat's about the inability to do dps on her in a style that really doesn't matter because id rather see priests go back to 'sit in the back and cast heals'.</blockquote>If your just sitting back and casting heals non stop as a melee priest you are probably not fuffiling your job to it's fullest...I don't know where to start...As an Inquisitor you can keep your group alive AND contribute to the dps parse at the SAME TIME. I have done over 100k dps on some fights are you telling me that 100,000 dps is nothing? I mean yea if I just sat bacspamming my heals like a robot we would have killed the mob but why do a dis-service to your raid, if you can put out DPS it should be expected that you give it your all without sacrificing your group members.With Fanatical Devotion giving your whole group a 100% chance to proc more damage and the fact that I have a 40sec aoe avoidance spell that makes me avoid almost all the risk of going in, there are few times where you should not run in a beat on things. IF you don't wanna have fun play a boring healer don't dumb down the fun classes...The highlighted text makes me sick.It just baffles me that people want to just heal and choose a class that can both heal and dps fine and than choose to make some selfrituse stand on the grounds that they are a healer and not ment to dps..

Phaedrella

08-19-2011, 05:59 PM

DERAILMENT ALERT

acctlc

08-19-2011, 08:01 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>i won't know till i am able to test these aa on live but detonate imo has the potential to become a fusion like spell for us and thus increase dps and is balanced by it's risk factor. i still feel necro should get back the SDA some how.. it's far from over powered for the necro class unless you're delusional and think the necro pet does 70% of your dps.. that was pure lulz</blockquote>I'm seeing detonate hit for 60k on yellow heroics in deep forge (single mob)...I don't see it coming even close to being comparable to fusion. The pet SDA attack worked great from range...I just don't see how detonate solves the loss for anyone besides heroic content summoners.

Necroponic

08-19-2011, 08:14 PM

<cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>i won't know till i am able to test these aa on live but detonate imo has the potential to become a fusion like spell for us and thus increase dps and is balanced by it's risk factor. i still feel necro should get back the SDA some how.. it's far from over powered for the necro class unless you're delusional and think the necro pet does 70% of your dps.. that was pure lulz</blockquote>No, what's pure lulz is when you go on your alt Gaiking, and spam 1-9 with your stupidity about the game and watch everybody thoroughly own you.Now that is always hilarious.</blockquote>personal attacks? i guess we both know who's right along with the rest of the summoner community. butthert moar nub!</blockquote>You were also the guy during TSO who said lifeburn was useless and any Necro that uses it needed to reroll.And personal attack? No. I'm simply stating the truth that whenever you decide to talk about the game in 1-9 everyone proves everything you say wrong and you wind up looking like an idiot who knows nothing about the game - much like you are demonstrating here.Necro pets do account for around 60-70% of our total DPS when you factor in Soulburn, or did you completely forget about that? Taking away the spell double attack as well as all the changes to the AA line that completely nerfs our Mage pet we're looking at a net loss of our 60K of our total DPS, which puts us back around where most healers parse if they are actually trying.But you probably don't run ACT and probably don't look at everything and actually analyze the raw data.</blockquote>soulburn is about 7-8% consume is about 2%.....that being said pet is about 25-28% without soulburn or consume( so pet is in no way over power and this nerf is total bs. after the update that % will drop even more booooooooooooooo hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate. total dps loss will be about 5% (maybe a lil bit more or less.....this is an optomistic guess though <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )

Bekkr

08-19-2011, 08:18 PM

<cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>You liked useless stats on your gear. Gotcha.</blockquote>The "old" gear's stats were only rendered useless because of the lame stat change that was made so that a smaller dev team could still manage to itemize the whole game, the result of which is these new, boring items with boring stats on them.Also, why on Earth does it matter if there are "useless" stats on gear? Does it take away from the gear's usefulness to a particular class in some way?I for one enjoyed the old stat system and gear a lot more than the vanilla DoV cr@p we're now apparently stuck with for the rest of the game. At least it was interesting.On a completely unrelated note, I wonder why even food and drink is unequipped and in my overflow...

Necroponic

08-19-2011, 08:20 PM

<cite>Arieva@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>i won't know till i am able to test these aa on live but detonate imo has the potential to become a fusion like spell for us and thus increase dps and is balanced by it's risk factor. i still feel necro should get back the SDA some how.. it's far from over powered for the necro class unless you're delusional and think the necro pet does 70% of your dps.. that was pure lulz</blockquote>I'm seeing detonate hit for 60k on yellow heroics in deep forge (single mob)...I don't see it coming even close to being comparable to fusion. The pet SDA attack worked great from range...I just don't see how detonate solves the loss for anyone besides heroic content summoners.</blockquote>yeah detonate is a lemon.......barely hits harder than blood cloud most of the time and its point blank. turn into a green with range imo.

Ragefighter

08-19-2011, 08:58 PM

<cite>Bekkr wrote:</cite><blockquote>On a completely unrelated note, I wonder why even food and drink is unequipped and in my overflow...</blockquote>CONDIMENTS!!could you imagine though...ROFL

Grifion

08-19-2011, 09:56 PM

<cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Silius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>Overcap changes<ul><li>Focus: Is the "Snare" effect really working as intended? Is this being adjusted due to the feedback on how it's changing play styles due to now having to use new methods for spell cancels on jousts?</li></ul></li><li>Moving while casting has been removed.</li></ul></blockquote></blockquote>I _really_ hate that an interesting new feature is being removed cause people find pressing a different button to do the same thing difficult.</blockquote>Personally I found the Snare far more frustrating than not being able to cast on the move. You can adjust to the cancel issue, but I was just not able to get the speed up to a meaningful amount to make it useful. At least for my situation.I'm hoping they do though find another use for this style of mechanic. What I think would be interesting to see would be focus allows you x seconds of movement before it interrupts you. That way people could still move as needed and they might be able to get things off but the current mechanics that people have know for 7 someodd years would still be in place.</blockquote>I'd just like to see them add Vanguards "you can move while casting at a walking speed" and not allow it to use in combat or out of combat speed modifiers.</blockquote>because this game has sooo many in combat speed modifier gear/aa (not really :/) </blockquote>I actually liked the change to focus, but the mixed ideas of "Hey, I want to be able to move while casting." while being able to stop casting by moving doesn't really make sense. If you want movement to not cancel the casting of a spell, then how do you expect movement to cancel a spell cast when you feel it should without entering any different commands. If movement no longer cancels a spell cast you'd have to do something else to cancel the spell. /sigh

Elskidor

08-19-2011, 10:20 PM

<cite>Ragefighter@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>You play a melee priest, don't you? They seem to be the biggest whiners about the stat change.And yes, I have one. However I made a priest to heal, not dps. I could give half a rat's about the inability to do dps on her in a style that really doesn't matter because id rather see priests go back to 'sit in the back and cast heals'.</blockquote>If your just sitting back and casting heals non stop as a melee priest you are probably not fuffiling your job to it's fullest...I don't know where to start...As an Inquisitor you can keep your group alive AND contribute to the dps parse at the SAME TIME. I have done over 100k dps on some fights are you telling me that 100,000 dps is nothing? I mean yea if I just sat bacspamming my heals like a robot we would have killed the mob but why do a dis-service to your raid, if you can put out DPS it should be expected that you give it your all without sacrificing your group members.With Fanatical Devotion giving your whole group a 100% chance to proc more damage and the fact that I have a 40sec aoe avoidance spell that makes me avoid almost all the risk of going in, there are few times where you should not run in a beat on things. IF you don't wanna have fun play a boring healer don't dumb down the fun classes...The highlighted text makes me sick.It just baffles me that people want to just heal and choose a class that can both heal and dps fine and than choose to make some selfrituse stand on the grounds that they are a healer and not ment to dps..</blockquote>The priest should not being doing heavy amounts of dps. Delete the Inquisitor and any other dpsing priests, because the entire concept is dumb. If they DPS and can partially heal then that's fine if it's done right. Their classes should never be taken seriously when looking for a real healer, just a back up incase things get sloppy. A high DPSing healer that is also capable of fullfilling the duties of their counterpart only means there is little use to ever have the class that was made to excell at healing in the party. This is just idiotic. Merge the 6 into 3 healers if you don't know how to work them.

Elskidor

08-19-2011, 10:23 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>However I made a priest to heal, not dps. I could give half a rat's about the inability to do dps on her in a style that really doesn't matter because id rather see priests go back to 'sit in the back and cast heals'.</blockquote>Oh you're one of those</blockquote>Go back to eq2flames and play with yourself.

Felshades

08-19-2011, 11:28 PM

Felshades

08-19-2011, 11:30 PM

<cite>Ragefighter@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>You play a melee priest, don't you? They seem to be the biggest whiners about the stat change.And yes, I have one. However I made a priest to heal, not dps. I could give half a rat's about the inability to do dps on her in a style that really doesn't matter because id rather see priests go back to 'sit in the back and cast heals'.</blockquote>If your just sitting back and casting heals non stop as a melee priest you are probably not fuffiling your job to it's fullest...I don't know where to start...As an Inquisitor you can keep your group alive AND contribute to the dps parse at the SAME TIME. I have done over 100k dps on some fights are you telling me that 100,000 dps is nothing? I mean yea if I just sat bacspamming my heals like a robot we would have killed the mob but why do a dis-service to your raid, if you can put out DPS it should be expected that you give it your all without sacrificing your group members.With Fanatical Devotion giving your whole group a 100% chance to proc more damage and the fact that I have a 40sec aoe avoidance spell that makes me avoid almost all the risk of going in, there are few times where you should not run in a beat on things. IF you don't wanna have fun play a boring healer don't dumb down the fun classes...The highlighted text makes me sick.It just baffles me that people want to just heal and choose a class that can both heal and dps fine and than choose to make some selfrituse stand on the grounds that they are a healer and not ment to dps..</blockquote>I can do it too on my mystic, I just PREFER NOT TO.My job is to HEAL, not DPS.Every healing class in every single MMORPG can dps just fine. It's how we level when we don't have groups. Doesn't mean its what the class is intended to do. I'd rather heal in a group, not dps. That's what I brought along the rest of you for. Not to look pretty.

Felshades

08-19-2011, 11:32 PM

<cite>Bekkr wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>You liked useless stats on your gear. Gotcha.</blockquote>The "old" gear's stats were only rendered useless because of the lame stat change that was made so that a smaller dev team could still manage to itemize the whole game, the result of which is these new, boring items with boring stats on them.Also, why on Earth does it matter if there are "useless" stats on gear? Does it take away from the gear's usefulness to a particular class in some way?I for one enjoyed the old stat system and gear a lot more than the vanilla DoV cr@p we're now apparently stuck with for the rest of the game. At least it was interesting.On a completely unrelated note, I wonder why even food and drink is unequipped and in my overflow...</blockquote>As for the food thing, I think it just dumped all your slots regardless of what they were.And it does take away from the gear's usefulness. It would be even more useful if it contained stats that made me do my job better, rather than stats that do jack squat but eat up itemization points.

Felshades

08-19-2011, 11:33 PM

<cite>Meube@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>However I made a priest to heal, not dps. I could give half a rat's about the inability to do dps on her in a style that really doesn't matter because id rather see priests go back to 'sit in the back and cast heals'.</blockquote>Oh you're one of those</blockquote>Go back to eq2flames and play with yourself.</blockquote>I like you.

technologically

08-19-2011, 11:48 PM

<cite>Meube@Splitpaw wrote:</cite> <cite></cite><blockquote>The priest should not being doing heavy amounts of dps. Delete the Inquisitor and any other dpsing priests, because the entire concept is dumb. If they DPS and can partially heal then that's fine if it's done right. Their classes should never be taken seriously when looking for a real healer, just a back up incase things get sloppy. A high DPSing healer that is also capable of fullfilling the duties of their counterpart only means there is little use to ever have the class that was made to excell at healing in the party. This is just idiotic. Merge the 6 into 3 healers if you don't know how to work them.</blockquote>Thats cute, but clearly you don't understand how progression works. At the start of an expac, you need healers to "sit in the back" and put out every ounce of healing so that you can kill the first few mobs and get shiny new gear. Your raidforce uses that gear to kill harder mobs to get even shinier gear, and so on. Now there come a time when half your raid or group still hasn't gotten their first shiny piece, but because there are proportionally less tanks, and mt healers, the raid doesn't need nearly as much healing as it did to finish gearing everyone. If it worked the way you dreamed it did, its about this time that healers would either effectively do nothing for the raid, waiting for free gear, or sitting out, for more dps to sit in, but they'd still need the gear. No healer would want to play your game. This is why priests get to do damage.They aren't asking to do 300k dps, they're asking to do as much as other tank/utility classes, and that seems pretty fair. When the xpack was released, tank gear had no multiattack, and tanks were having trouble holding agro over the dps with their crazy new stats. Tanks complained that they weren't T1 dps anymore, and instead of giving them gobs of hate gain / taunt to do what you would consider their job, sony gave them the MA they wanted. Melee priests looked at their gear and said hey where is our multiattack? Sony hasn't done for us what they did for the tanks.Melee healers have been complaining extra lately because caster dps healers get boosts from the same stats, while melee based healers need 2 kinds of stats to boost their dps. Items are made by scripts now and only have so many stats to hand out, so caster based healers are starting to outpace us, and we deserve to do damage on par with them. To enbolden the issue, it looked as though new gear would have caster autoattack stats and no melee autoattack stats, further pushing caster based priest dps beyond melee. It's not whining, its a legitimate mechanic complaint. They're not going to break their item value script, and they no longer seem to hand craft any items, they could at least have taken this AA tweaking time to address this issue, with either damage boosts, or damage to healing conversion that would let us dps more often.

Ragefighter

08-20-2011, 12:52 AM

<cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ragefighter@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>You play a melee priest, don't you? They seem to be the biggest whiners about the stat change.And yes, I have one. However I made a priest to heal, not dps. I could give half a rat's about the inability to do dps on her in a style that really doesn't matter because id rather see priests go back to 'sit in the back and cast heals'.</blockquote>If your just sitting back and casting heals non stop as a melee priest you are probably not fuffiling your job to it's fullest...I don't know where to start...As an Inquisitor you can keep your group alive AND contribute to the dps parse at the SAME TIME. I have done over 100k dps on some fights are you telling me that 100,000 dps is nothing? I mean yea if I just sat bacspamming my heals like a robot we would have killed the mob but why do a dis-service to your raid, if you can put out DPS it should be expected that you give it your all without sacrificing your group members.With Fanatical Devotion giving your whole group a 100% chance to proc more damage and the fact that I have a 40sec aoe avoidance spell that makes me avoid almost all the risk of going in, there are few times where you should not run in a beat on things. IF you don't wanna have fun play a boring healer don't dumb down the fun classes...The highlighted text makes me sick.It just baffles me that people want to just heal and choose a class that can both heal and dps fine and than choose to make some selfrituse stand on the grounds that they are a healer and not ment to dps..</blockquote>I can do it too on my mystic, I just PREFER NOT TO.My job is to HEAL, not DPS.Every healing class in every single MMORPG can dps just fine. It's how we level when we don't have groups. Doesn't mean its what the class is intended to do. I'd rather heal in a group, not dps. That's what I brought along the rest of you for. Not to look pretty.</blockquote>YOUR JOB is to keep your group ALIVE not mindlessly spam your heals..

Davngr1

08-20-2011, 12:59 AM

<cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anklesteiner wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>i won't know till i am able to test these aa on live but detonate imo has the potential to become a fusion like spell for us and thus increase dps and is balanced by it's risk factor. i still feel necro should get back the SDA some how.. it's far from over powered for the necro class unless you're delusional and think the necro pet does 70% of your dps.. that was pure lulz</blockquote>No, what's pure lulz is when you go on your alt Gaiking, and spam 1-9 with your stupidity about the game and watch everybody thoroughly own you.Now that is always hilarious.</blockquote>personal attacks? i guess we both know who's right along with the rest of the summoner community. butthert moar nub!</blockquote>You were also the guy during TSO who said lifeburn was useless and any Necro that uses it needed to reroll.And personal attack? No. I'm simply stating the truth that whenever you decide to talk about the game in 1-9 everyone proves everything you say wrong and you wind up looking like an idiot who knows nothing about the game - much like you are demonstrating here.Necro pets do account for around 60-70% of our total DPS when you factor in Soulburn, or did you completely forget about that? Taking away the spell double attack as well as all the changes to the AA line that completely nerfs our Mage pet we're looking at a net loss of our 60K of our total DPS, which puts us back around where most healers parse if they are actually trying.But you probably don't run ACT and probably don't look at everything and actually analyze the raw data.</blockquote> look scrub.. i don't even know who you are or why you think i care. the necro pet is not 70% of necro dps unless you're a sorry, so sorry pititful loooosaaa of a necro.. FACT get it? got it? GOOD now please S.T.F.U <cite>Arieva@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>i won't know till i am able to test these aa on live but detonate imo has the potential to become a fusion like spell for us and thus increase dps and is balanced by it's risk factor. i still feel necro should get back the SDA some how.. it's far from over powered for the necro class unless you're delusional and think the necro pet does 70% of your dps.. that was pure lulz</blockquote>I'm seeing detonate hit for 60k on yellow heroics in deep forge (single mob)...I don't see it coming even close to being comparable to fusion. The pet SDA attack worked great from range...I just don't see how detonate solves the loss for anyone besides heroic content summoners.</blockquote> ah.. was not aware of that : i saw the tool tips and it loocked like it had potential to hit well over 100k with raid buffs but i guess not.

Ragefighter

08-20-2011, 01:08 AM

<cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ragefighter@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>You play a melee priest, don't you? They seem to be the biggest whiners about the stat change.And yes, I have one. However I made a priest to heal, not dps. I could give half a rat's about the inability to do dps on her in a style that really doesn't matter because id rather see priests go back to 'sit in the back and cast heals'.</blockquote>If your just sitting back and casting heals non stop as a melee priest you are probably not fuffiling your job to it's fullest...I don't know where to start...As an Inquisitor you can keep your group alive AND contribute to the dps parse at the SAME TIME. I have done over 100k dps on some fights are you telling me that 100,000 dps is nothing? I mean yea if I just sat bacspamming my heals like a robot we would have killed the mob but why do a dis-service to your raid, if you can put out DPS it should be expected that you give it your all without sacrificing your group members.With Fanatical Devotion giving your whole group a 100% chance to proc more damage and the fact that I have a 40sec aoe avoidance spell that makes me avoid almost all the risk of going in, there are few times where you should not run in a beat on things. IF you don't wanna have fun play a boring healer don't dumb down the fun classes...The highlighted text makes me sick.It just baffles me that people want to just heal and choose a class that can both heal and dps fine and than choose to make some selfrituse stand on the grounds that they are a healer and not ment to dps..</blockquote>I can do it too on my mystic, I just PREFER NOT TO.My job is to HEAL, not DPS.Every healing class in every single MMORPG can dps just fine. It's how we level when we don't have groups. Doesn't mean its what the class is intended to do. I'd rather heal in a group, not dps. That's what I brought along the rest of you for. Not to look pretty.</blockquote>so is a dirges job just to buff his group and go afk? does a tank only cast taunt? Your logic is Fail.

Necroponic

08-20-2011, 02:10 AM

<cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can do it too on my mystic, I just PREFER NOT TO.My job is to HEAL, not DPS.Every healing class in every single MMORPG can dps just fine. It's how we level when we don't have groups. Doesn't mean its what the class is intended to do. I'd rather heal in a group, not dps. That's what I brought along the rest of you for. Not to look pretty.</blockquote>learn to multi task.....otherwise you are subpar to the ones that can pull both off efficiently. just cause you _ _ _ _ at one while doing the other doesn't mean all Priests should be weak wimpy dps. good going on sideing with SOE

PhabiusBile

08-20-2011, 03:30 AM

@Nadirah @ElskidorReally? straight heals.....................I mean, do you just want to use one hotbar....... or to be able to sit back and watch a movie and eat dinner with the family while you play eq2?Inquisitor since release.... and let me tell you... if you are doing nothing but healing, the people you are grouping with would be better off finding a new healer. One of the few things that has actually kept me from leaving eq2 is the fact that i feel like i can still contribute a little to raid via dps and it is much more fun than sitting in the back spamming heals.

Ragefighter

08-20-2011, 03:30 PM

I am sorry I came off as a big meany, I am really a nice person just lots of stuff is going on in game and life all at once...Any way, I will say that when I was at the start of DoV progression I did sit back and heal, but as the raid gets gear and you become stronger you can do more.But really what makes EQ2 special is the variety in ways to play and I really hate to say that the variety has been getting lessor and lesser lately. Now every piece of gear is pre determined and it seems like this is their path for here on out cause they just redid pretty much every item to make it just like the stuff in DoV (1 generic scout item one fighter one priest etc)I understand (not agree) that you(devs) want to make a very clear (and atm mindless) loot progression for gear upgrades, but it really suctions.Right now the only choice for armor is weather or not you click on the correct classes option or if you screw up and end up with some junk you can't use =I mean at least throw some DPS stats on the priest 2H hammer. IF your going to go for heals make people use a 1h and shield and let the 2h be for dps.IT doesn't make things perfect by any means but it's a start.

thegriss

08-22-2011, 09:21 AM

thegriss

08-22-2011, 09:25 AM

<cite>Meube@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>The priest should not being doing heavy amounts of dps. Delete the Inquisitor and any other dpsing priests, because the entire concept is dumb. If they DPS and can partially heal then that's fine if it's done right. Their classes should never be taken seriously when looking for a real healer, just a back up incase things get sloppy. A high DPSing healer that is also capable of fullfilling the duties of their counterpart only means there is little use to ever have the class that was made to excell at healing in the party. This is just idiotic. Merge the 6 into 3 healers if you don't know how to work them.</blockquote>You sound hurt... Inq/fury take your raid slot?

TheGeneral

08-22-2011, 10:17 AM

<cite>Sorvex@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>However I made a priest to heal, not dps. I could give half a rat's about the inability to do dps on her in a style that really doesn't matter because id rather see priests go back to 'sit in the back and cast heals'.</blockquote>Oh you're one of those</blockquote>I play a priest to be useful. Standing in the back as a melee priest just casting heals means im not being useful.</blockquote>Every class needs to be able to DPS and many priest classes have been working hard to up their ability to DPS and Heal. I would HATE to see any effort to push priests back into the heal only mentality.

JazzMaus

08-22-2011, 10:39 AM

<cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>And yes, I have one. However I made a priest to heal, not dps. I could give half a rat's about the inability to do dps on her in a style that really doesn't matter because id rather see priests go back to 'sit in the back and cast heals'.</blockquote>When I play a healer in a group, I heal when people need to be healed.If people don't need healing, I don't stand around waiting until they do -- I help with the DPS. If I don't do so, I'm not doing my job.Or, to put it differently: if all I want a healer to do is to be a heal-bot, I'll multi-box my own healer & not worry about getting someone else to do the job.

Nevao

08-22-2011, 10:55 AM

/sigh Leave this thread alone for a few days and look what it turned into. Seriously folks, /derail much?

retro_guy

08-25-2011, 06:26 AM

<cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>retro_guy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Elhonas@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Chelsith change is pretty silly, in my opinion. If people want to spend their time grinding away on respawning mobs in an instance, then so what? That doesn't negatively affect my game experience, or anyone else's. It's so tiring, hearing people gripe and complain about how others play the game. For the few who might argue something along the lines of "Now more people will group", think about this: If the people who farmed Chelsith wanted to group with you, then they'd already be doing so.Let people play the game the way that they choose, please.</blockquote>I don't think it's the grinding that he's concerned with it's the AFK AA grinding.e.g. park conj on top of a respawn point and go to work = 12 hours later come home and lots of free AA.Not that I've ever done it, but I can imagine it's quite appealing.</blockquote>You need a script tool to do that. I tried with my necro since i saw many time necros grinding xp afk. It was very clear they remained at the same spot hours ... i was questing and each time i passed at some spot necro was there with pet killing stuff and many chests around.So i gave a try, pet on defensive actually killed spawning mob quite fast but i got no xp.To qualify for the fill you need at least to perform one action.A small utility that would turn auto attack on is enough for that, a tiny script emulating pushing 1 over and over. Such a tool is against the EULA.</blockquote>I did not know that.However you don't need a 3rd party script to perform an action, you could use a G15 keyboard and set up a simple macro. The G15 is supported by EQ2 and doesn't break the EULA.However if you leave the keyboard and leave the game "running" auto you are breaking the EULA.