All Fighter Heals need to scale and be %s.

[Talathion]

<p>Example:</p><p>If Engaged to a Solo Encounter:</p><p>- Heals target for 1%</p><p>If Engaged to a PvP Encounter:</p><p>- Heals target for 3%</p><p>If Engaged to a Heroic Encounter:</p><p>- Heals target for 6%</p><p>If Engaged to a Raid Encounter:</p><p>- Heals target for 15%</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">(this all depends on the type of heal too)</span></p><p>This is a fair way to scale Fighter healing abilitys, all of them should be tuned this way.</p>

[Buzzing]

<p>I agree with you that heals should now be % based for fighters given that they no longer crit, however I am going to guess that coding them all to work in the way that you are asking for in your post would be anoying at best to code. Creating complicated coding only bogs the servers down and my guess is that it won't be changed to anything like that.</p><p>I would be very happy with a straight % heal that did not scale based on the dificulty of the encounter however.</p><p>Really just let them Crit again would be fine with me as well</p>

[Yimway]

<p>No.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I agree with you that heals should now be % based for fighters given that they no longer crit, however I am going to guess that coding them all to work in the way that you are asking for in your post would be anoying at best to code. Creating complicated coding only bogs the servers down and my guess is that it won't be changed to anything like that.</p><p>I would be very happy with a straight % heal that did not scale based on the dificulty of the encounter however.</p><p>Really just let them Crit again would be fine with me as well</p></blockquote><p>The coding is already on live and used on several encounters already.   Look at PVP, healing auto scales for it, so the PVP tab is already they're, Epics are already coded into how moves effect them as well.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No.</p></blockquote><p>More Feedback besides: No?</p><p>What about No + Reason?</p>

[TheGeneral]

<p>Just no.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>TheGeneral wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just no.</p></blockquote><p>No + Reason Please?</p>

[Yimway]

<p>No, it is a horribly bad idea, not thought thru and presents an immature view of how to balance fighter classes.</p><p>You can not itemize to %'s.  You don't get better at %'s as you get better at the game.  It presents horrible PVP balancing issues.  It presents no itemization choices and offers no real progression at getting better.</p><p>It' is an extremely lazy attempt at a sollution, it's just a fail idea out of the gate.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No, it is a horribly bad idea, not thought thru and presents an immature view of how to balance fighter classes.</p><p>You can not itemize to %'s.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">You don't get better at %'s as you get better at the game</span>.  It presents horrible PVP balancing issues.  It presents no itemization choices and offers no real progression at getting better.</p><p>It' is an extremely lazy attempt at a sollution, it's just a fail idea out of the gate.</p></blockquote><p>Untrue, the More health you have the more it heals you, so a person with 50k Health will be healed for alot more then a person with 30k Health.  Its Balance.</p><p>If its not Balanced in PVP, you can simply tweak the percent till it is. (I don't care about PvP anyways.</p>

[Buzzing]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I agree with you that heals should now be % based for fighters given that they no longer crit, however I am going to guess that coding them all to work in the way that you are asking for in your post would be anoying at best to code. Creating complicated coding only bogs the servers down and my guess is that it won't be changed to anything like that.</p><p>I would be very happy with a straight % heal that did not scale based on the dificulty of the encounter however.</p><p>Really just let them Crit again would be fine with me as well</p></blockquote><p>The coding is already on live and used on several encounters already.   Look at PVP, healing auto scales for it, so the PVP tab is already they're, Epics are already coded into how moves effect them as well.</p></blockquote><p>I apologize, let me explain a little.</p><p>Even if coding exists for something like this to be used. Calling on that coding more then is necissary could bag things down. I'm not against your proposition by any means. If it would not cause much in the back end then it should be fine. Remember though that pvp is only a single check</p><p>If <player> engaged in PvP</p><p><span style="white-space: pre;"> </span>Nerf spell</p><p>Else</p><p><span style="white-space: pre;"> </span>Spell is unchanged</p><p>Creating a multi level check would be what is required. Spells effecting a raid mob diferently is bassed on the mobs check. However heals are cast on other players so you would have to create a code similar to the one above (sytax aside). If in fact the code is that simplistic for every type of encounter then it would be fine.</p><p>Honestly I would love to see heals work this way so if it can be done without hickup then cool.</p>

[Raviel]

<p>scaling them to the encounter is a bad idea, just let the % be modded by potency, like brawler heals are and they will scale just fine as you get more max health. this is probably the most viable way to balance them outside of criticals imo.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Raviel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>scaling them to the encounter is a bad idea, just let the % be modded by potency, like brawler heals are and they will scale just fine as you get more max health. this is probably the most viable way to balance them outside of criticals imo.</p></blockquote><p><span style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; color: #cae0e6;">The best solution to a problem is usually the easiest one - Glados.</span></p>

[TheGeneral]

<p>The reason i say no is because i would rather them give us more damage mitigation and spike dmg blocks.  That is more in line with what a tank should be doing.  Heals and lifetaps are nice to have and as an SK, I do think we should tap the heck out of what we are fighting, but as I have said in other posts, SOE does not want us to be over powered on the heals, so I just dont think its a path worth going down.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>TheGeneral wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The reason i say no is because i would rather them give us more damage mitigation and spike dmg blocks.  That is more in line with what a tank should be doing.  Heals and lifetaps are nice to have and as an SK, I do think we should tap the heck out of what we are fighting, but as I have said in other posts, SOE does not want us to be over powered on the heals, so I just dont think its a path worth going down.</p></blockquote><p>What heals and lifetaps? those parse about 350ish now at 90 (not reaver), which is sad because healers are now parsing 22000.</p>

[Buzzing]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No, it is a horribly bad idea, not thought thru and presents an immature view of how to balance fighter classes.</p><p>You can not itemize to %'s.  You don't get better at %'s as you get better at the game.  It presents horrible PVP balancing issues.  It presents no itemization choices and offers no real progression at getting better.</p><p>It' is an extremely lazy attempt at a sollution, it's just a fail idea out of the gate.</p></blockquote><p>the % would be the base of the heal and any changes would relate to that number.</p><p>Example:</p><p>10% heal with 50,000 hp (because I am lazy) would equate to a base value of 5,000. If you had 100% potency it would then be 10,000. Add in ability where appropriate and because they do not crit most of the other stats would not apply (which is how it is working as it is) the % can easily change when engaged in PvP as it does now as well as with the spell grade (master and so on)</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Raviel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>scaling them to the encounter is a bad idea, just let the % be modded by potency, like brawler heals are and they will scale just fine as you get more max health. this is probably the most viable way to balance them outside of criticals imo.</p></blockquote><p>Nah, you can balance them upon their base values and continue to allow potency to modify them.</p><p>Heals that fighters can apply to only themselves should get a rather high base value where those that can apply to others should get a relatively low base value.</p><p>Higher base values allow for high amounts of ability mod and potency to affect them presenting specific itemization choices for those that want to max to self healing vs those that want to max towards max dps.  I could envision further focus effects increasing base values of specific heals to scale them further, opening up more specialization in itemization.</p>

[Buzzing]

<p><cite>TheGeneral wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The reason i say no is because i would rather them give us more damage mitigation and spike dmg blocks.  That is more in line with what a tank should be doing.  Heals and lifetaps are nice to have and as an SK, I do think we should tap the heck out of what we are fighting, but as I have said in other posts, SOE does not want us to be over powered on the heals, so I just dont think its a path worth going down.</p></blockquote><p>and I am going to agree with you here tbh. I would rather see them give us a better way to mitigate damage then increase our heals.</p><p>However if you are going to be doing this as apposed to making our heals work better then myself as a pali need a huge change to the class. Making 5 of my spells junk because heals are overpowered is not a very good solution either. </p><p>This again I am okay with not having much in the way of heals but the only things that stand out at all for a Paladin is the heals and amends. Destroying heals means that all I have is amends.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>10% heal with 50,000 hp (because I am lazy) would equate to a base value of 5,000. If you had 100% potency it would then be 10,000. Add in ability where appropriate and because they do not crit most of the other stats would not apply (which is how it is working as it is) the % can easily change when engaged in PvP as it does now as well as with the spell grade (master and so on)</p></blockquote><p>So now we're suggesting not only % based heals, but modifiable precent based heals...</p><p>This is grossly the wrong direction to go in.</p>

[Buzzing]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>10% heal with 50,000 hp (because I am lazy) would equate to a base value of 5,000. If you had 100% potency it would then be 10,000. Add in ability where appropriate and because they do not crit most of the other stats would not apply (which is how it is working as it is) the % can easily change when engaged in PvP as it does now as well as with the spell grade (master and so on)</p></blockquote><p>So now we're suggesting not only % based heals, but modifiable precent based heals...</p><p>This is grossly the wrong direction to go in.</p></blockquote><p>I'm again going to ask why that is, simply put. If the heal is to large the % is to high, lower it.</p>

[Raviel]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No, it is a horribly bad idea, not thought thru and presents an immature view of how to balance fighter classes.</p><p>You can not itemize to %'s.  You don't get better at %'s as you get better at the game.  It presents horrible PVP balancing issues.  It presents no itemization choices and offers no real progression at getting better.</p><p>It' is an extremely lazy attempt at a sollution, it's just a fail idea out of the gate.</p></blockquote><p>itemization choices? have you played this xpac at all?</p><p>how do you not get better at % healing as you progress through the game? it seems to work just fine for brawlers. % based heals scale just fine if modded by potency</p>

[Raviel]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Raviel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>scaling them to the encounter is a bad idea, just let the % be modded by potency, like brawler heals are and they will scale just fine as you get more max health. this is probably the most viable way to balance them outside of criticals imo.</p></blockquote><p>Nah, you can balance them upon their base values and continue to allow potency to modify them.</p><p>Heals that fighters can apply to only themselves should get a rather high base value where those that can apply to others should get a relatively low base value.</p><p>Higher base values allow for high amounts of ability mod and potency to affect them presenting specific itemization choices for those that want to max to self healing vs those that want to max towards max dps.  I could envision further focus effects increasing base values of specific heals to scale them further, opening up more specialization in itemization.</p></blockquote><p>your idea would be a bandaid fix, they could scale the base values to where hp is now, and then in a year or two hp will double or triple again, and fighter heals will once again be useless.</p>

[LygerT]

<p>% based heals are a good idea.</p><p>unfortunately ALL fighter heals would need to be redone completely, which i doubt is an option.</p><p>there's other issues with encounter based heals though, because in raid you usually have multiple types of encounters and not just an epic one.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>Brawlers have percent based heals and they seem fine, how come other fighters are not getting the same treatment since brawlers have obviously better everything else?</p><p>I don't understand why brawlers can heal better then "Shadowknights, Paladins, Berserkers" since they have better damage reduction and better avoidance and better deathsaves and better DPS.</p>

[LygerT]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Brawlers have percent based heals and they seem fine, how come other fighters are not getting the same treatment since brawlers have obviously better everything else?</p><p>I don't understand why brawlers can heal better then "Shadowknights, Paladins, Berserkers" since they have better damage reduction and better avoidance and better deathsaves and better DPS.</p></blockquote><p>no one complained about this until brawlers got a buff perhaps? like people didn't complain about newb SKs hitting DM and yanking aggro while their DS pegged off the rev-limiter?</p><p>people will always want what someone else has who is doing better at the time. if we're all going to have the same abilities then we could just consolidate into a single class and call it "tank".</p><p>put in more heal modifiable gear, which doesn't affect those with % based heals. done.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Lygerr@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Brawlers have percent based heals and they seem fine, how come other fighters are not getting the same treatment since brawlers have obviously better everything else?</p><p>I don't understand why brawlers can heal better then "Shadowknights, Paladins, Berserkers" since they have better damage reduction and better avoidance and better deathsaves and better DPS.</p></blockquote><p>no one complained about this until brawlers got a buff perhaps? like people didn't complain about newb SKs hitting DM and yanking aggro while their DS pegged off the rev-limiter?</p><p>people will always want what someone else has, who is doing better at the time. if we're all going to have the same abilities the we could just consolidate into a single class and call it "tank".</p></blockquote><p>The issue was Brawlers getting buffed and Critical Healing being nerfed in the same patch.</p>

[LygerT]

<p>the only issue i have with them is the recast isn't really a huge impact, unless the fight is 45 seconds or less they get a 50-60% heal several times per fight.</p><p>but</p><p>the casting isn't exactly instant so i'm not sure why it's a huge issue, all other fighters the heals are instant procs or semi instant lifetaps/heals(crusader).</p><p>the biggest problem is that basic CAs, heals and abilities do not properly scale to level. the main modifier is and has been for some time gear, which buffs your abilities to scale properly to current level. if there is no gear in place to modify an ability it falls far short of an ability that is % based.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Lygerr@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>the only issue i have with them is the recast isn't really a huge impact, unless the fight is 45 seconds or less they get a 50-60% heal several times per fight.</p><p>but</p><p>the casting isn't exactly instant so i'm not sure why it's a huge issue, all other fighters the heals are instant procs or semi instant lifetaps/heals(crusader).</p><p>the biggest problem is that basic CAs, heals and abilities do not properly scale to level. the main modifier is and has been for some time gear, which buffs your abilities to scale properly to current level. if there is no gear in place to modify an ability it falls far short of an ability that is % based.</p></blockquote><p>well for example, the SKs Heal HOT could be 1% Every Few Seconds, that adds up.</p>

[Banditman]

<p>Percentage based heals are a terrible idea.  Awful.  You might be the best equipped, most skillful fighter in the game, but your heals would do just as much for you as Random_Scrub_252 in Treasured gear.</p><p>It's just an awful, terrible idea.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Percentage based heals are a terrible idea.  Awful.  You might be the best equipped, most skillful fighter in the game, but your heals would do just as much for you as Random_Scrub_252 in Treasured gear.</p><p>It's just an awful, terrible idea.</p></blockquote><p>Are you...</p><p>Wow...</p><p>NO ITS BASED ON HOW MUCH HEALTH YOU HAVE.</p><p>New 90 has 22000 HP. A 10% heal would heal him for 2200.</p><p>HM Raider Joe has 50000 HP. A 10% heal would heal him for 5000.</p><p>That is a BIG difference.</p>

[Raviel]

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Percentage based heals are a terrible idea.  Awful.  You might be the best equipped, most skillful fighter in the game, but your heals would do just as much for you as Random_Scrub_252 in Treasured gear.</p><p>It's just an awful, terrible idea.</p></blockquote><p>Random_Scrub_252 wont have the same max health, ergo % based heals would heal for more total hitpoints. In addition, if % based heals are made moddable by potency then you will be healing more of a % than Random_Scrub_252</p>

[LygerT]

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Percentage based heals are a terrible idea.  Awful.  You might be the best equipped, most skillful fighter in the game, but your heals would do just as much for you as Random_Scrub_252 in Treasured gear.</p><p>It's just an awful, terrible idea.</p></blockquote><p>and how does that really differ much from how it is now?</p>

[Geothe]

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Percentage based heals are a terrible idea.  Awful.  You might be the best equipped, most skillful fighter in the game, but your heals would do just as much for you as Random_Scrub_252 in Treasured gear.</p><p>It's just an awful, terrible idea.</p></blockquote><p>Except not really.If you're the best equiped-awesome player, your HP is at least 55k+ solo, and much much higher in raids (70k+).Random scrub probably in the 30-40k HP range (or even lower if true "scrub").So the heal on mr best gear will be at least double that as on newbie guy for percentage based heals.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Raviel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Percentage based heals are a terrible idea.  Awful.  You might be the best equipped, most skillful fighter in the game, but your heals would do just as much for you as Random_Scrub_252 in Treasured gear.</p><p>It's just an awful, terrible idea.</p></blockquote><p>Random_Scrub_252 wont have the same max health, ergo % based heals would heal for more total hitpoints. In addition, if % based heals are made moddable by potency then you will be healing more of a % than Random_Scrub_252</p></blockquote><p>Percent Based Heals are fine without being modified by Potency dude, atleast most are, imagine if the brawler one was also modified by Potency, would be completely overpowered.  <span style="color: #888888;"><span style="color: #ccffcc;">But you are Right.</span></span></p>

[LygerT]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Percentage based heals are a terrible idea.  Awful.  You might be the best equipped, most skillful fighter in the game, but your heals would do just as much for you as Random_Scrub_252 in Treasured gear.</p><p>It's just an awful, terrible idea.</p></blockquote><p>Except not really.If you're the best equiped-awesome player, your HP is at least 55k+ solo, and much much higher in raids (70k+).Random scrub probably in the 30-40k HP range (or even lower if true "scrub").So the heal on mr best gear will be at least double that as on newbie guy for percentage based heals.</p></blockquote><p>i would just ignore anyone who calls just about everyone else a scrub, without giving it much thought himself.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Except not really.If you're the best equiped-awesome player, your HP is at least 55k+ solo, and much much higher in raids (70k+).Random scrub probably in the 30-40k HP range (or even lower if true "scrub").So the heal on mr best gear will be at least double that as on newbie guy for percentage based heals.</p></blockquote><p>No, the heal will be grossly over that cause of all the potency on the uber guy.</p><p>I'm confident that SoE knows this to be a horrible sollution, so I'll refrain from further comment on it.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Except not really.If you're the best equiped-awesome player, your HP is at least 55k+ solo, and much much higher in raids (70k+).Random scrub probably in the 30-40k HP range (or even lower if true "scrub").So the heal on mr best gear will be at least double that as on newbie guy for percentage based heals.</p></blockquote><p>No, the heal will be grossly over that cause of all the potency on the uber guy.</p><p>I'm confident that SoE knows this to be a horrible sollution, so I'll refrain from further comment on it.</p></blockquote><p>More like the developers do not have the time to work on it right now with all the other cr(stuff)ap they are working on.</p><p>But Potency and %'s are Overpowered I think.</p><p>But All Fighter heals SHOULD be percents.</p>

[LygerT]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Except not really.If you're the best equiped-awesome player, your HP is at least 55k+ solo, and much much higher in raids (70k+).Random scrub probably in the 30-40k HP range (or even lower if true "scrub").So the heal on mr best gear will be at least double that as on newbie guy for percentage based heals.</p></blockquote><p>No, the heal will be grossly over that cause of all the potency on the uber guy.</p><p>I'm confident that SoE knows this to be a horrible sollution, so I'll refrain from further comment on it.</p></blockquote><p>i'd actually like to hear these thoughts on paper of how much weaker a 1500 base heal would be over say a 10% straight heal.</p><p>the % based heals aren't going to be as far off the mark as you and others who have been posting simple replies to have been making it sound. yet they will scale properly going forward.</p>

[Karagon]

<p>Monks have only 1 heal that is already capped at 100% heal with 3 minute reuse. Bruisers almost same. It is sh*t.</p><p>Sk's have 5% heal atm from any spell they cast. + lifetaps + reactive. ANd the more potency they have - the more heal would be. After 2-3 expansions it would be 10%+ already.</p><p>Zerkers have 1k heal proc that is also potency modified and would be better and better that procs from 1 of 3 hits. + automatic heal when their hp drops down + 30 sec's 10% of their max health is healed.</p><p>Pally's have a... wow 5 heal abilities.</p><p>All this is already better than brawlers have (i mean heals)</p><p>The more i read what talathion write - the more i lol... Stop posting your stupid ideas and learn something about game.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Karagon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Monks have only 1 heal that is already capped at 100% heal with 3 minute reuse. Bruisers almost same. It is sh*t.</p><p>Sk's have 5% heal atm from any spell they cast. + lifetaps + reactive. ANd the more potency they have - the more heal would be. After 2-3 expansions it would be 10%+ already.</p><p>Zerkers have 1k heal proc that is also potency modified and would be better and better that procs from 1 of 3 hits. + automatic heal when their hp drops down.</p><p>Pally's have a... wow 5 heal abilities.</p><p>All this is already better than brawlers have (i mean heals)</p><p>The more i read what talathion write - the more i lol... Stop posting your stupid ideas and learn something about game.</p></blockquote><p>Your 1 heal is better then all 5 Paladin heals.</p><p>Berserkers heal is 1k (AFTER potency)</p><p>SKs Heals (without Reaver) are like 250-500... (After Potency)</p><p>Most of us are sitting with 50k HP, and being hit for 90% of our health.</p><p>These heals are really saving us! (not)</p><p>Our Classes were balanced around healing:Paladins (Heals)Shadowknights (Lifetaps)Berserkers (Regenerate)</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But Potency and %'s are Overpowered I think.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, thats why in the past 2 years % heals have been nerfed over and over again cause they present scaling issues.  Several dev posts in fact stated that potency affecting base amounts presented better itemization choices.</p><p>This thread is asking for cake when the real problem in the game is itemization.</p>

[Karagon]

<p>I never use it in raid (well.. mb i used it 1-2 times in this expansion when healers were afk on trash). It has 1+ sec cast, and while i cast it - i already get healed to 100 by my healers.</p><p>I use it sometimes in heroic instances when healer also isn't near. Why it's better lol? YOu know absolutely nothing about brawlers.</p><p>And still you missed the main point - it's reuse is 3 f*cking minutes (ok in raid it's about 2). It could be useful if it was instant cast and 30 sec's reuse. But not in the way it's now.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But Potency and %'s are Overpowered I think.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, thats why in the past 2 years % heals have been nerfed over and over again cause they present scaling issues.  Several dev posts in fact stated that potency affecting base amounts presented better itemization choices.</p><p>This thread is asking for cake when the real problem in the game is itemization.</p></blockquote><p>% Based Heals scale the best, if you have better gear you are tackeling harder content, and the better gear you have the more health you have, the better heal you have.</p><p>Its like a beautiful melody <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Karagon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I never use it in raid (well.. mb i used it 1-2 times in this expansion when healers were afk on trash). It has 1+ sec cast, and while i cast it - i already get healed to 100 by my healers.</p><p>I use it sometimes in heroic instances when healer also isn't near. Why it's better lol? YOu know absolutely nothing about brawlers.</p></blockquote><p>Really? I saw a brawler and his friends one group TOFS's Tserrina, and the brawler heal saved him not once, but 3 times when he was thrown away from the raid.</p>

[LygerT]

<p><cite>Karagon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Monks have only 1 heal that is already capped at 100% heal with 3 minute reuse. Bruisers almost same. It is sh*t.</p></blockquote><p>don't downplay your abilities or i will start to name you after some other people on this forum.</p><p>brawler heals are automatically ~1 minute reuse or less even at level 50 with a handful of AAs spent. my bruiser can self heal multiple times during most relatively quick solo fights of well under a minute.</p>

[Raviel]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Raviel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Percentage based heals are a terrible idea.  Awful.  You might be the best equipped, most skillful fighter in the game, but your heals would do just as much for you as Random_Scrub_252 in Treasured gear.</p><p>It's just an awful, terrible idea.</p></blockquote><p>Random_Scrub_252 wont have the same max health, ergo % based heals would heal for more total hitpoints. In addition, if % based heals are made moddable by potency then you will be healing more of a % than Random_Scrub_252</p></blockquote><p>Percent Based Heals are fine without being modified by Potency dude, atleast most are, imagine if the brawler one was also modified by Potency, would be completely overpowered.  <span style="color: #888888;"><span style="color: #ccffcc;">But you are Right.</span></span></p></blockquote><p>the brawler one IS modified by potency</p>

[Karagon]

<p>Learn healers to push buttons.</p><p>Hp is always 100% or 0%. And zerker's non% heal is best of all mentioned cause it procs immediately after 1st hit and heal you up before 2nd one (even 1k saved my life sometimes when i play zerker)</p><p>Sk's reactive is same. Ward of pally also.</p><p>All other heals are good for solo mb. But totally useless is raid/group content when you have a healer that heals you</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Raviel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Raviel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Percentage based heals are a terrible idea.  Awful.  You might be the best equipped, most skillful fighter in the game, but your heals would do just as much for you as Random_Scrub_252 in Treasured gear.</p><p>It's just an awful, terrible idea.</p></blockquote><p>Random_Scrub_252 wont have the same max health, ergo % based heals would heal for more total hitpoints. In addition, if % based heals are made moddable by potency then you will be healing more of a % than Random_Scrub_252</p></blockquote><p>Percent Based Heals are fine without being modified by Potency dude, atleast most are, imagine if the brawler one was also modified by Potency, would be completely overpowered.  <span style="color: #888888;"><span style="color: #ccffcc;">But you are Right.</span></span></p></blockquote><p>the brawler one IS modified by potency</p></blockquote><p>Oh... so its even better then I thought... carry on then... sorry.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Karagon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Learn healers to push buttons.</p><p>Hp is always 100% or 0%. And zerker's non% heal is best of all mentioned cause it procs immediately after 1st hit and heal you up before 2nd one (even 1k saved my life sometimes when i play zerker)</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">A 1k heal can't save your life because if you go below 0 HP you will die before the heal saves you, so this statement is incorrect, it heals you AFTER You take damage, you merely got 1 HP left then got healed for 1k.</span></p><p>Sk's reactive is same. Ward of pally also.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">As stated above for SKs, Wards go before damage is dealt though.</span></p><p>All other heals are good for solo mb. But totally useless is raid/group content when you have a healer that heals you</p></blockquote><p>I wish people would learn how stuff works.</p>

[Raviel]

<p>to clarify, im not talking about death prevention spells, those are fine as is, they are all % based and potency modded. what im complaining about is spells like blood rage, sk lifetaps, and paladin heals. Mend and Ignore Pain are both % based and potency modded, so they have stayed relevant with stat inflation. SK lifetaps, paladin heals, and the berserker passive reactive have not. Im not saying that all heals should be as powerful as the brawler heals, but i dont see whats so overpowered about suggesting that master blood rage should do something like a 5% heal proc when it triggers, thats 10% at 100 potency, with 40k hp thats a 4k heal, as opposed to what we have now (sub 1k), 4k isnt even a crit heal for a healer. I just hate having abilities that dont scale at all with current content</p>

[LygerT]

<p><cite>Karagon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And still you missed the main point - it's reuse is 3 f*cking minutes (ok in raid it's about 2). It could be useful if it was instant cast and 30 sec's reuse. But not in the way it's now.</p></blockquote><p><img src="http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/147/94383403.png" /></p><p>sitting idle on my level 78 bruiser with a whopping 12% reuse, not counting temps that cut it in half every 4 minutes.</p><p>perhaps you should respec, or something.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Lygerr@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Karagon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And still you missed the main point - it's reuse is 3 f*cking minutes (ok in raid it's about 2). It could be useful if it was instant cast and 30 sec's reuse. But not in the way it's now.</p></blockquote><p><img src="http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/147/94383403.png" /></p><p>sitting idle on my level 78 bruiser with a whopping 12% reuse, not counting temps that cut it in half every 4 minutes.</p></blockquote><p>You don't have 50% Reuse like I do... you have 12%.</p><p>Anyways, Raviel is right, heals that don't scale are a waste of space, the only reason I would cast the spell is to fill up my concentration slots and make my character look better on the UI.</p>

[Geothe]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Except not really.If you're the best equiped-awesome player, your HP is at least 55k+ solo, and much much higher in raids (70k+).Random scrub probably in the 30-40k HP range (or even lower if true "scrub").So the heal on mr best gear will be at least double that as on newbie guy for percentage based heals.</p></blockquote><p>No, the heal will be grossly over that cause of all the potency on the uber guy.</p><p>I'm confident that SoE knows this to be a horrible sollution, so I'll refrain from further comment on it.</p></blockquote><p>Of course.Potency should not affect percent based heals at all.  The fact that they do affect some seems more like a bug than actually intended.ie. Pretty sure SK's reaver isn't affected by potency at all, as the case should be.</p>

[Buzzing]

<p><cite>Karagon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Monks have only 1 heal that is already capped at 100% heal with 3 minute reuse. Bruisers almost same. It is sh*t.</p><p>Sk's have 5% heal atm from any spell they cast. + lifetaps + reactive. ANd the more potency they have - the more heal would be. After 2-3 expansions it would be 10%+ already.</p><p>Zerkers have 1k heal proc that is also potency modified and would be better and better that procs from 1 of 3 hits. + automatic heal when their hp drops down + 30 sec's 10% of their max health is healed.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Pally's have a... wow 5 heal abilities.</span></p><p>All this is already better than brawlers have (i mean heals)</p><p>The more i read what talathion write - the more i lol... Stop posting your stupid ideas and learn something about game.</p></blockquote><p>yes but we have 5 abilities that we would have to cast in order to = your 1 heal</p><p>=)</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Karagon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Monks have only 1 heal that is already capped at 100% heal with 3 minute reuse. Bruisers almost same. It is sh*t.</p><p>Sk's have 5% heal atm from any spell they cast. + lifetaps + reactive. ANd the more potency they have - the more heal would be. After 2-3 expansions it would be 10%+ already.</p><p>Zerkers have 1k heal proc that is also potency modified and would be better and better that procs from 1 of 3 hits. + automatic heal when their hp drops down + 30 sec's 10% of their max health is healed.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Pally's have a... wow 5 heal abilities.</span></p><p>All this is already better than brawlers have (i mean heals)</p><p>The more i read what talathion write - the more i lol... Stop posting your stupid ideas and learn something about game.</p></blockquote><p>yes but we have 5 abilities that we would have to cast in order to = your 1 heal</p><p>=)</p></blockquote><p>The Truth hurts <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[644446592]

<div><span ><a href="../user/profile.m?user_id=305225"><strong><span style="color: #3333ff;">Karagon</span></strong></a></span> is totally stupid in other classes like Crusaders. And posting absolutely <span ><span >nonsense, don't listen him.</span></span></div>

[Raviel]

<p><img src="http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/Raviel1/EQ2_000000.jpg" width="1022" height="595" /></p><p>i post this knowing full well that i missed a few paladin heal spells, but i think it gets the point across anyway. Brawler heals scale, every other tanks heals do not. Lay Hands has a longer reuse than Mend, and heals less.</p><p>these were all screenshotted from my berserker, so they do not take aa enhancements into account. his stats are 130 potency, 545 ability mod, 47.4 reuse, and im not sure if str affects heals at all, but 2602 str.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Raviel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><img src="http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/Raviel1/EQ2_000000.jpg" width="1022" height="595" /></p><p>i post this knowing full well that i missed a few paladin heal spells, but i think it gets the point across anyway. Brawler heals scale, every other tanks heals do not. Lay Hands has a longer reuse than Mend, and heals less.</p><p>these were all screenshotted from my berserker, so they do not take aa enhancements into account. his stats are 130 potency, 545 ability mod, 47.4 reuse, and im not sure if str affects heals at all, but 2602 str.</p></blockquote><p>Don't forget that Mend and Ignore pain have stuff that reduces its reuse directly by 20/30 seconds...</p>

[Buzzing]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><p><cite></cite><span style="color: #444444; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; background-color: #f3f5ff;">Don't forget that Mend and Ignore pain have stuff that reduces its reuse directly by 20/30 seconds...</span></p><p>Lay on Hands has aa to lower the reuse as well but caps out really fast</p><p>Edit: really don't think Lay on Hands is broken in it's current state however, heals for a lot and casts instantly. Has a horrible reuse time because of that and does not heal for as much but actually feel it works fairly well</p>

[LygerT]

<p>and i would guess that potency still affects the % based heals on mend/ignore pain, as the adept isn't going to double from adept to master. not that i can double check as i haven't seen anything with potency on it yet at this level.</p><p>so what's not good about % based heals again? they just are not affected by crit bonus yet you can still effectively double their heal amount.</p><p>but if a brawler tries to say it's a horrible heal, well, figures don't lie. you get a nearly 100% heal every minute with >1 second casting. if you aren't using it, then you aren't a good player or simply don't need it which brings up other issues, as plate tanks need all the heals they have.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><p><cite></cite><span style="color: #444444; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; background-color: #f3f5ff;">Don't forget that Mend and Ignore pain have stuff that reduces its reuse directly by 20/30 seconds...</span></p><p>Lay on Hands has aa to lower the reuse as well but caps out really fast</p></blockquote><p>I think Red slot version actually lowers the spell actually reuse then is effected by reuse, making the spells about 45 second recast.</p>

[Buzzing]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><p><cite></cite><span style="color: #444444; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; background-color: #f3f5ff;">Don't forget that Mend and Ignore pain have stuff that reduces its reuse directly by 20/30 seconds...</span></p><p>Lay on Hands has aa to lower the reuse as well but caps out really fast</p></blockquote><p>I think Red slot version actually lowers the spell actually reuse then is effected by reuse, making the spells about 45 second recast.</p></blockquote><p>no clue, haven't played with the focus effects much with the demand for dps and crit mit</p>

[LygerT]

<p>and i still would rather see alternate ideas instead of all plate tanks get brawler % based heals. but the fact is, i don't see anything horribly wrong with % based heals that properly scale each expansion.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Lygerr@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>and i still would rather see alternate ideas instead of all plate tanks get brawler % based heals. but the fact is, i don't see anything horribly wrong with % based heals that properly scale each expansion.</p></blockquote><p>Yep, if they're wasn't anything wrong this post wouldn't be 5 pages long in 3 hours...</p>

[Buzzing]

<p><cite>Lygerr@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>and i still would rather see alternate ideas instead of all plate tanks get brawler % based heals. but the fact is, i don't see anything horribly wrong with % based heals that properly scale each expansion.</p></blockquote><p>other options are fine, honestly I was fine when they would crit /shrug. I wouldn't even care if they gave a damage reduction or the heals were proced off the mob, or even that they were changed to be temp buffs that could boost the healing of our healers....</p><p>and no I didn't think any of it threw... all I want is the scaling to be the same =) and a % based heal would do just that</p>

[Condara]

<p>While they are at it make healer HP buffs % based as well.  3-5% for group and 3-5% single target. 1200 hp was allot when max hp was 10k not so much at 60-70k</p>

[Talathion]

<p>Devour Vitae @ level 84:</p><p>8% Heal.</p><p>Trap Veins @ level 84:</p><p>8% Heal Per Target</p><p>Siphon Strike @ level 87:</p><p>5% Heal</p><p>Unholy Blessing VII @ level 89</p><p>2% Heal Every Trigger for 5 Triggers.</p><p>Devout Sacrament:</p><p>Heals Caster for 79-97.3% (like Bruiser/Monk)</p><p>Blood Rage:</p><p>6% Heal</p><p>Prayer of Healing:</p><p>No First Tick, Just keeps the group up a little bit.</p><p>Group Heals for 5% Once every 4 seconds for 24 seconds.</p><p>(this heal does not heal the paladin, only his group)</p><p>Holy Aid:</p><p>Heals Caster's Target for 20% First, 5% After (HOT Starts Ticking)</p><p>Heals Caster's Target for 5% Once every 4 seconds for 24 seconds.</p><p>Blessed Weapon @ Level 87:</p><p>Heals Caster for 5% First, 2% After (HOT Starts Ticking)</p><p>Heals Caster for 2% Once every 4 seconds for 24 seconds.</p>

[Buzzing]

<p><cite>Condara wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>While they are at it make healer HP buffs % based as well.  3-5% for group and 3-5% single target. 1200 hp was allot when max hp was 10k not so much at 60-70k</p></blockquote><p>I would agree with this except that your heals can still crit, would kind of be lame to take away crits on your primary function.</p>

[LygerT]

<p>and a % based health buff from priests would be one less reason to use a zerker.</p><p>step off this % based kick you're on.</p>

[Buzzing]

<p><cite>Lygerr@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>and a % based health buff from priests would be one less reason to use a zerker.</p><p>step off this % based kick you're on.</p></blockquote><p>no problem, any suggestions to make fighter heals scale correctly?</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lygerr@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>and a % based health buff from priests would be one less reason to use a zerker.</p><p>step off this % based kick you're on.</p></blockquote><p>no problem, any suggestions to make fighter heals scale correctly?</p></blockquote><p>He means Healers with Max Health Buffs would s uck for berserkers because they have the lowest HP of all Tanks.</p><p>% Based Heals Are Best for Fighters, it bases them all on they're max health, which all fighters desire.</p>

[Buzzing]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lygerr@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>and a % based health buff from priests would be one less reason to use a zerker.</p><p>step off this % based kick you're on.</p></blockquote><p>no problem, any suggestions to make fighter heals scale correctly?</p></blockquote><p>He means Healers with Max Health Buffs would s uck for berserkers because they have the lowest HP of all Tanks.</p><p>% Based Heals Are Best for Fighters, it bases them all on they're max health, which all fighters desire.</p></blockquote><p>was more trying to get them to contribute a solution as apposed to just saying no</p>

[LygerT]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lygerr@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>and i still would rather see alternate ideas instead of all plate tanks get brawler % based heals. but the fact is, i don't see anything horribly wrong with % based heals that properly scale each expansion.</p></blockquote><p>Yep, if they're wasn't anything wrong this post wouldn't be 5 pages long in 3 hours...</p></blockquote><p>for the classes that obviously lack, since they nerfed crit heals. stoneskins and damage reduction are decent alternatives to the lacking temps.</p><p>the heals aren't the real issue in the disparity between tank, if you think they are then *shrug*.</p><p>as for direct health buffs, they're perfectly fine how they are. when you start altering how you buff a tank healthwise, some will benefit more than others and we already have enough of that as is.</p>

[Buzzing]

<p><cite>Lygerr@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lygerr@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>and i still would rather see alternate ideas instead of all plate tanks get brawler % based heals. but the fact is, i don't see anything horribly wrong with % based heals that properly scale each expansion.</p></blockquote><p>Yep, if they're wasn't anything wrong this post wouldn't be 5 pages long in 3 hours...</p></blockquote><p>for the classes that obviously lack, since they nerfed crit heals. stoneskins and damage reduction are decent alternatives to the lacking temps.</p><p>the heals aren't the real issue in the disparity between tank, if you think they are then *shrug*.</p><p>as for direct health buffs, they're perfectly fine how they are. when you start altering how you buff a tank healthwise, some will benefit more than others and we already have enough of that as is.</p></blockquote><p>I would take stoneskin and damage reduction over changing heals by a long shot, thank you for the input</p>

[Yimway]

<p>Not sure this thread has anything to do with Testing...</p>

[Buzzing]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Not sure this thread has anything to do with Testing...</p></blockquote><p>you would be correct, nothing in the notes is talking about the heals becoming anything diferent.</p><p>/endrant</p><p>thanks</p>

[Raviel]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Not sure this thread has anything to do with Testing...</p></blockquote><p>the first thing we agree on. this could use a move to the general fighter forum</p>