No Melee Priest stats [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

thegriss

08-15-2011, 12:18 PM

Now that images are coming out from the test server on the new ranged spell attack items I have to say that it seems being a melee priest is getting further and further from being what SOE has in mind for Priest. All the new gear has stats for ranged spell attack and little for melee improvment. Anything with spell auto multi should have melee multi attack ect.This IMO is directly telling us that they are gravitating away from viable melee priest. Why should casting priest gain the advantage of these new stats and the ability to sit at range. I as a melee priest DO NOT want range casting stats on my gear taking up stat points that should be used for melee stats. With DOV I was losing faith in the direction SOE was taking my character but now I can see they have no intention of letting us have the stats other melee have avalible to them while sticking us with garbage spell auto stats on our ranged items.SOE please take note most MELEE PRIEST DO NOT WANT THIS GARBAGE.

Geothe

08-15-2011, 12:27 PM

the status of melee priests is just further evidence as to how utterly clueless the people selected to do itemization actually are about the game itself.quite pathetic.

Buzzing

08-15-2011, 12:35 PM

Honestly... doing nothing but bashing and flaming the dev team for something isn't the way to get anything done. Simply ask and see if you get a responce.The stats on the priest gear are primarily set for ranged auto attack. I'm not sure if this is the intended path but could we please take a look at stats for priests and give options so that we can still be viable using our melee AA choices?I also understand that reforging is in the works. If that is going to be the fix that is intended for the healers to be able to use the melee line, is it possible to just keep some of the changes to gear on the back burner until that is released?

Banditman

08-15-2011, 01:56 PM

Reforging could solve this problem, but first they need to remove class restrictions from many items so that they can be meaningfully reforged and used.For instance, a "Scout" wrist that comes with +130 AGI / STA, 8% Attack Speed, 9% Multi-Attack, 6 Pot / CB. Ok, yea, I might use that as part of a Melee Priest DPS kit. *IF* I can wear it, and *IF* I can reforge the AGI into WIS.

Rosvita

08-15-2011, 02:08 PM

Can I just point out that while gear has no viable melee stats which I agree does need looking at, the melee aa choices won't be affecting the ranged auto-attack at this point, maybe this was an attempt to balance this <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Felshades

08-15-2011, 02:20 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Reforging could solve this problem, but first they need to remove class restrictions from many items so that they can be meaningfully reforged and used.For instance, a "Scout" wrist that comes with +130 AGI / STA, 8% Attack Speed, 9% Multi-Attack, 6 Pot / CB. Ok, yea, I might use that as part of a Melee Priest DPS kit. *IF* I can wear it, and *IF* I can reforge the AGI into WIS.</blockquote>I don't expect to be able to reforge green stats.I expect a percentage based blue stat swapping, and only adding blue stats that the item does not have already.

crackers_87

08-15-2011, 02:45 PM

I see them puting Milti Attack on Quest Gear for healers But None on Raid Gear. Whats up with that?

feldon30

08-15-2011, 03:55 PM

<cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Honestly... doing nothing but bashing and flaming the dev team for something isn't the way to get anything done. Simply ask and see if you get a responce.</blockquote>We did. During beta. The response?"We are not itemizing battle priests this expansion."

Buzzing

08-15-2011, 04:01 PM

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Honestly... doing nothing but bashing and flaming the dev team for something isn't the way to get anything done. Simply ask and see if you get a responce.</blockquote>We did. During beta. The response?"We are not itemizing battle priests this expansion."</blockquote>at least you know that it isn't being looked at atm

thegriss

08-15-2011, 04:07 PM

Banditman

08-15-2011, 04:07 PM

<cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Honestly... doing nothing but bashing and flaming the dev team for something isn't the way to get anything done. Simply ask and see if you get a responce.</blockquote>We did. During beta. The response?"We are not itemizing battle priests this expansion."</blockquote>at least you know that it isn't being looked at atm</blockquote>What we know is that this coming update was supposed to fix AA's. If you aren't going to itemize for a Battle Priest, FINE. Remove those AA's and put something else in there. Frankly, I don't think that's the answer.Battle Priests need to be itemized properly. In past expansions, they were most assuredly itemized. Additionally, in the past far fewer things were "locked" to a particular archtype. In this way, Battle Priests were able to utilize gear that, while not exactly designed for them in particular, did in fact fill a role in the overall play style of those classes.

Buzzing

08-15-2011, 04:09 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Honestly... doing nothing but bashing and flaming the dev team for something isn't the way to get anything done. Simply ask and see if you get a responce.</blockquote>We did. During beta. The response?"We are not itemizing battle priests this expansion."</blockquote>at least you know that it isn't being looked at atm</blockquote>What we know is that this coming update was supposed to fix AA's. If you aren't going to itemize for a Battle Priest, FINE. Remove those AA's and put something else in there. Frankly, I don't think that's the answer.Battle Priests need to be itemized properly. In past expansions, they were most assuredly itemized. Additionally, in the past far fewer things were "locked" to a particular archtype. In this way, Battle Priests were able to utilize gear that, while not exactly designed for them in particular, did in fact fill a role in the overall play style of those classes.</blockquote>I agree with your point =) if the items make the aa not viable one of the two needs to change

Odys

08-15-2011, 05:34 PM

One aspect i enjoyed in the original Eq2 was the battlepriest concept Wow priest was a kind of spell caster, using a wand and i prefered Eq2 battlepriest because my idea of a priest comes from D&D.The current itemization for those 3 classes is just plainly wrong. Whatever be our spec our melee dps is just stuck at SF levels, especially when we solo or when we are not buffed.Solo my paladin is above 200MA, 90 dps mod, 50 haste (but temporaly he can haste up to 100).My warden is still around 87MA, 7dps mod, no haste (but temporaly one).This make such a difference than for a warden speccing as a fury (int tree, spell casting stance) lead to better dps (assuming you are solo).A proper GM cannot tell to his fellow players : sorry 40% of your dps won't scale.The original error that was made is simple : Potency does not affect melee damage so it was replaced by Massive MA.Instead it would have been much simpler to simply let potency affect auto attack and to let MA at SF levels (more or less below 100).

EvilAstroboy

08-15-2011, 09:12 PM

I agree. The battle-priest AA have been set in stone for 3 of the 6 priest classes since EoF. The least they can do is itemise for them properly.

Maergoth

08-15-2011, 10:23 PM

Melee priests are still going to be viable for 3 reasons: Leather, Chain, and Plate armor.Applying that logic implies that, because mages have ranged auto attack, they are phasing out melee auto attack.Apples and oranges.

EvilAstroboy

08-16-2011, 11:12 AM

<cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>Melee priests are still going to be viable for 3 reasons: Leather, Chain, and Plate armor.Applying that logic implies that, because mages have ranged auto attack, they are phasing out melee auto attack.Apples and oranges.</blockquote>They are viable because they have slightly better mitigation than mages? Awesome logic. My Illusionist can melee even con heroic mobs solo using a ward proc, whats your point?The point of this thread is that no priest drops support doing melee damage, its all spell based stats. And all the new gear has spell auto-attack stats on it, not melee stats. So battle-priests get no benefit from the new gear for their playstyle. Which is a bit of a kick in the nuts, since half the priests have a melee spec.

Banditman

08-16-2011, 11:54 AM

<cite>EvilAstroboy wrote:</cite><blockquote>They are viable because they have slightly better mitigation than mages? Awesome logic. My Illusionist can melee even con heroic mobs solo using a ward proc, whats your point?The point of this thread is that no priest drops support doing melee damage, its all spell based stats. And all the new gear has spell auto-attack stats on it, not melee stats. So battle-priests get no benefit from the new gear for their playstyle. Which is a bit of a kick in the nuts, since half the priests have a melee spec.</blockquote>Almost.The real issue is that a "caster" priest needs to make absolutely no sacrifice to their healing ability in order to improve their DPS ability. The same stats work for both healing and DPSing . . . *IF* you are a caster.On the other hand, "melee" priests need completely different stats to improve their DPS ability, and not only that, the gear to do so simply doesn't exist.

thegriss

08-16-2011, 01:01 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>EvilAstroboy wrote:</cite><blockquote>They are viable because they have slightly better mitigation than mages? Awesome logic. My Illusionist can melee even con heroic mobs solo using a ward proc, whats your point?The point of this thread is that no priest drops support doing melee damage, its all spell based stats. And all the new gear has spell auto-attack stats on it, not melee stats. So battle-priests get no benefit from the new gear for their playstyle. Which is a bit of a kick in the nuts, since half the priests have a melee spec.</blockquote>Almost.The real issue is that a "caster" priest needs to make absolutely no sacrifice to their healing ability in order to improve their DPS ability. The same stats work for both healing and DPSing . . . *IF* you are a caster.On the other hand, "melee" priests need completely different stats to improve their DPS ability, and not only that, the gear to do so simply doesn't exist.</blockquote>This 100 fold. I would like to know the Dev who play tests melee priest. I think they need to come here and talk to us and ask us what they need to do. At this point either no one is playing a melee priest at SOE or a few people are playing priests in general and dont have a clue of what it takes to play a melee priest vs a caster priest.DOV put us out in the cold GU 60 gave us nothing and GU 61 gives us something we dont want. Please help yourself by looking into how you are itemizing us because its getting to the point that id rather just go elsewere than continue to fight and up hill battle agaist the game designers who have made my class a melee based character and refuse to build gear for me.Its like Building a car with a 500HP engine and then putting a Cheap tranny and tires on it. Ya its has lots of potential but its not going to do what its designed for unless you equip it correctly.

Mosha D'Khan

08-16-2011, 01:30 PM

i get you guys are mad about your gear not having what you want it to have but here it them problem and it always has been. every one of you posting about this topic have the mind set of i "have to" dps to heal and that the heal buttons on you hot bars dont exist and you dont want to have to press them. solution to that for you guys is give me more dps. the devs see it on the other hand as they have heals as their primary and then the damage they do can proc bonus heals to cover what they miss.i get the point were you got your so called "dps gear" last xpac. but just my thoughts is you should have never got something like that. letting you use the tank gear was a bad choice. and i know people are going to argue with me about it and i dont much less care but before the merged crit chance you either picked heal or melee and you guys could do 1 or the other. and gear had never really been given to do both. if the gear last xpac (green stat wise) mattered like it did this xpac and there was no wisdom on the tank stuff would guess alot of you would not use it if the game worked the same way it does now.but it comes down to you want to play the game from i got to dps first and heal later and well that is the wrong mind set as a healer and if you want to do it that way there is going to be strengths and weakness to it, same with fighters if you got offensive you are going to die easier. seeing that what you roled the class for is in the name of it lol healer is to heal =) . just because you dont want ot have to press a heal button to heal does not mean that the devs should do it that way. and if so i want to be a fighter that can just turn auto attack on and keep 30 mobs on me no matter what any dps will do but it is not going to happen either.get rid of the mind set of i have to dps to heal and press a heal button here and there and your fine. yeah the spell caster healers get a little boost to their dps maybe tweaking some stats here and there would be fine more melee priest but the game does not need what last xpac was with you guys haveing the MA a plate tank or much less any tank or scout does since your primary job is to heal over dps.

Banditman

08-16-2011, 01:46 PM

<cite>Mosha DKhan wrote:</cite><blockquote>*snip*</blockquote>It doesn't matter what gear we use, that's the whole point.If you are a caster, one set of gear does it all for you. DPS, Heal, one set of gear and it works just fine.No one is saying we "have to" DPS. No one is even saying we should. What we are in fact saying is that it should be an option, and that our choices should be no more limited than the caster priests. Remember, back when things were itemized properly, there was a difference between beneficial cast haste and hostile cast haste (and crit, and re-use, etc). Thus, caster priests had to choose between the DPS and healing, just like the melee priests did. Stat consolidation removed that choice from casters, but not from melee and then itemization exarcerbated the issue.Melee priests need a set of gear that improves their ability to DPS while also improving their ability to heal. In effect, our current gear needs to be augmented at the development level by the things we need to do DPS. Our options should not be limited, or worse, non existant.

Ragin_Goblin

08-16-2011, 02:14 PM

SOE should not have made all new stats for spell ranged auto attack. This goes against what they have been trying to do for how many expacs now? Stats are costantly getting merged together to simplify gear. We not longer have +Combat Art, +Spell Damage or +Heal it is now Ability Mod. We no longer have Melee Crit, Spell Crit or Heal Crit it is now Crit Chance.Why create a whole new stat when we already have stats that could be made to work for the new spell auto mechanic. Not to mention, in the future you will eventually merge together anyway? DPS, Haste, MA, Flurry could be made to affect spell auto attack too. There is no need to create spell versions of these stats. If you made these stats affect spell auto attack like I am suggesting, you would satisfy all of your battle priests and enchanters that spec into melee plus you would have your shiney new mechanic that barely anyone asked for. By making the current melee stats affect spell auto attack as well, it would give the player the right to choose how THEY want to play their toon. Plus I know you will be itemizing for the new mechanic so, with consolidated stats, melee priests, enchanters and anyone else that has a melee spec would instantly be itemized.

thegriss

08-16-2011, 02:14 PM

<cite>Mosha DKhan wrote:</cite><blockquote>i get the point were you got your so called "dps gear" last xpac. but just my thoughts is you should have never got something like that. letting you use the tank gear was a bad choice. and i know people are going to argue with me about it and i dont much less care but before the merged crit chance you either picked heal or melee and you guys could do 1 or the other. and gear had never really been given to do both. if the gear last xpac (green stat wise) mattered like it did this xpac and there was no wisdom on the tank stuff would guess alot of you would not use it if the game worked the same way it does now.</blockquote>Please see the Inquisitor Armor from WOE Thx.You are a Tank/dps hybrid.... My Inq is a Heal/dps hybrid. I cast plenty of heals but I would like to acctually have stats that improve the melee side of my character.... It would be like saying your bruiser should be able to tank but your DPS should not be itemized...

Ragin_Goblin

08-16-2011, 02:55 PM

<cite>Sorvex@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mosha DKhan wrote:</cite><blockquote>{0}</blockquote>You are a Tank/dps hybrid.... My Inq is a Heal/dps hybrid. I cast plenty of heals but I would like to acctually have stats that improve the melee side of my character.... It would be like saying your bruiser should be able to tank but your DPS should not be itemized...</blockquote>QFEAsk a troubador how much fun it is to play their toon. That is a perfect example of a hybrid class that has been pidgeon holed into one roll when they should be serving two. Granted their issues are not really because of gear but due to imbalances. The concept is the same though. Troubadors are not fun to play. Once upon a time they were but now they are not. They have been forced to play a support role at the expense of their own personal dps.Ask any guild, that is currently recruiting, what they need and I guarantee the majority of them would all give their left leg for a troub or two. How well do you think this game will fare once Inquisitors, Mystics and Wardens become the no longer fun class to play. How well do you think your guild will fare, raiding with just Defilers, Templars and Furies because you cant find any of the other healer classes to recruit? How fun do you think it will be for the rest of your actual DPS classes if they dont get Stampede or Fanaticism anymore or for your MT group when you are trying to kill a progression mob and cant heal through the damage without a warden around?This game needs to be fun for ALL classes if its going to require all of them to experience all of the content.

EvilAstroboy

08-16-2011, 04:04 PM

<cite>Mosha DKhan wrote:</cite><blockquote>A lot of useless rubbish.</blockquote>I'm sorry if your healers are terrible and cannot do two things at once. Personally I overheal the group and still have 3/4 of the time left to contribute to DPS. Yes the primary job of a healer is to keep a group alive, but after a certain point of overhealing you are just wasting your time and not playing your class to its full potential.Based on your theory, your job as a brawler is to tank and not to DPS. I therefore think that they should remove all multi-attack and flurry from fighter gear and just have +threat procs. See how lame that is? Don't come here trolling.

Odys

08-16-2011, 04:27 PM

I cannot understand the monk reply. We may simply tell him : as a tank you should not dps either and simply get better taunt, more taunts, only taunts.I can tell you that playing healers is getting less and less fun, as example my paladin is currently doing the solo quest line at 1,5 or may be twice the speed of my warden. This with much worst gear. With a single arrow he does more damage than my warden highest spell (even she use a furie spec, even with spell casting stance). If he was geared like my warden he would one shot the mobs.His auto attack is hitting 4 times harder than my priest ones.Inquis are probably doing better due to their own self bufs, but they are staled too -- the only started from a better situation.You actually think that people will keep playing healer in a game in which scout/mage 1 shoot mob that priest kill in 20 seconds?My HPS can probably reach 20K, and i already saw it over 30 for more than 1mn. For most raid encounter i m doing like 4K (max) with everyonne at full health, so yes i have lot of time to dps between two damage spikes.Eq2 is slowly drifting toward the horrible Eq1 model in which classes were over-specialized.

Geothe

08-16-2011, 04:27 PM

So, since I dont play a melee priest myself.Is the primary issue the lack of any MA on priest gear?Or are there some other stats missing as well (drawing a blank off hand).Maybe a "quick" fix would be to modify one of the AAs in the melee line in each class to something along the lines of:Converts Potency (or Crit Bonus) to Multiattack at XXX rate.ie, 100 potency for your character would also give 100 MA. (or Crit bonus instead of Potency).Do the same thing with any other melee-centric stats that arent itemized on gear (I guess DPS mod/Haste come to mind as well).That would allow melee priests to gain their melee stats without having to reitemize the tier or anything like that.Being as caster-priests dont need to really swap out gear to DPS or Heal, a conversion to melee stats based on your current stats would allow Melee Priests to do the same thing.

Ragin_Goblin

08-16-2011, 05:13 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote>So, since I dont play a melee priest myself.Is the primary issue the lack of any MA on priest gear?Or are there some other stats missing as well (drawing a blank off hand).Maybe a "quick" fix would be to modify one of the AAs in the melee line in each class to something along the lines of:Converts Potency (or Crit Bonus) to Multiattack at XXX rate.ie, 100 potency for your character would also give 100 MA. (or Crit bonus instead of Potency).Do the same thing with any other melee-centric stats that arent itemized on gear (I guess DPS mod/Haste come to mind as well).That would allow melee priests to gain their melee stats without having to reitemize the tier or anything like that.Being as caster-priests dont need to really swap out gear to DPS or Heal, a conversion to melee stats based on your current stats would allow Melee Priests to do the same thing.</blockquote>Thats the thing, they dont even have to put that much into it. They are already reitemizing to give bonuses to this new spell auto attack. Instead of giving new stats called Spell Multi Attack, Spell DPS, Spell Haste, Spell Flurry that only affect spell auto attack, convert the same stats the melee classes already get and make them buff melee and spell auto attack. Then, because they are already itemizing for this new mechanic, they only have to put DPS, Haste, Multi Attack and Flurry on gear. If it works for both types of auto attack then melee priests and caster priests get the same benefit.If its an issue with melee priests putting out too much dps, then all the devs have to do is keep those stats from getting too bloated. All melee priests want is to be treated equally to their spell casting counter parts in regards to gear. If the melee priests see at least SOME stats that benefit ALL of their playstyles, then this outrage they feel would cool down to just standard whining about not having enough of xxx stat that all classes whine about.

Cometar

08-16-2011, 05:20 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote>So, since I dont play a melee priest myself.Is the primary issue the lack of any MA on priest gear?ect, ect, ect....</blockquote>Yeah, sort of. No MA, haste, dps mod, flurry... All the stats other melee classes rely on to help improve their dps.Interesting idea there, but it seems like that'd be hard to implement. It would be sooooo much easier to just actually itemize for melee priests instead.

Banditman

08-16-2011, 05:26 PM

The reason melee priests aren't itemized is that to do so would require them to break item budgets.In case you haven't run across the explanation before, each item in EQ2 has a "budget" based on it's rarity and where it drops. So, you have, for instance, a priest item that drops in Iceshard Keep. All of the appropriate stats on it are bound up in this budget and put on the item. The cost of each stat is quantified and added up and the item might come up with a value of 800 or something.It works great for keeping things in a smooth line of progression.Unfortunately, for melee priests, the "budget" needs to be different. We still need all those things that add up to "800", just like the caster priests. Unfortunately, we need another 400 or so value added on top of that for other things like MA, DPS, Haste, Flurry, Weapon Skills, etc. Everything a Scout would need.Thus, their budget falls apart on melee priests and instead of working something out, they choose not to even try.

Geothe

08-16-2011, 05:28 PM

<cite>Lokos@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote> It would be sooooo much easier to just actually itemize for melee priests instead.</blockquote>Apparently it isn't soooooo easy, heh.Besides, itemizing melee priests separately adds an entire separate iteration of loot.Currently there are just 4 types for each slot, scout, fighter, mage, priest.Completely separate itemization for melee priests as a 5th type of loot for every slot, which further dilutes down chances of getting what everyone would want.Being able to work off the same normal loot as priests, just gaining melee stats off of it in some manner without requiring completely separate itemization would actually be MUCH MUCH easier, and also would prevent the same problem from resurfacing in the future.MA/Haste/DPS mod would be rather simple.For melee priests only, as an addon to a currently endline EoF AA:-Casting speed => converts to haste. (100% cast speed is pretty simple to get, which would put the melee priest at 100 haste).-Crit Bonus => Multiattack. (At like 1:1 ratio, 200 crit bonus = 200 MA).-Potency => DPS Mod. (at like a 1:0.5 ratio, 200 potency = 100 DPS mod).Obviously conversion ratios just an example. But such a change would allow melee priests DPS to scale up based on their acquisition of better gear with better stats.

Geothe

08-16-2011, 05:29 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>The reason melee priests aren't itemized is that to do so would require them to break item budgets.In case you haven't run across the explanation before, each item in EQ2 has a "budget" based on it's rarity and where it drops. So, you have, for instance, a priest item that drops in Iceshard Keep. All of the appropriate stats on it are bound up in this budget and put on the item. The cost of each stat is quantified and added up and the item might come up with a value of 800 or something.It works great for keeping things in a smooth line of progression.Unfortunately, for melee priests, the "budget" needs to be different. We still need all those things that add up to "800", just like the caster priests. Unfortunately, we need another 400 or so value added on top of that for other things like MA, DPS, Haste, Flurry, Weapon Skills, etc. Everything a Scout would need.Thus, their budget falls apart on melee priests and instead of working something out, they choose not to even try.</blockquote>True, which is why an AA-introduced conversion of regular gear stats to melee stats for Battle Priests would solve both issues.

Mermut

08-16-2011, 05:47 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lokos@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote> It would be sooooo much easier to just actually itemize for melee priests instead.</blockquote>Apparently it isn't soooooo easy, heh.Besides, itemizing melee priests separately adds an entire separate iteration of loot.Currently there are just 4 types for each slot, scout, fighter, mage, priest.Completely separate itemization for melee priests as a 5th type of loot for every slot, which further dilutes down chances of getting what everyone would want.Being able to work off the same normal loot as priests, just gaining melee stats off of it in some manner without requiring completely separate itemization would actually be MUCH MUCH easier, and also would prevent the same problem from resurfacing in the future.MA/Haste/DPS mod would be rather simple.For melee priests only, as an addon to a currently endline EoF AA:-Casting speed => converts to haste. (100% cast speed is pretty simple to get, which would put the melee priest at 100 haste).-Crit Bonus => Multiattack. (At like 1:1 ratio, 200 crit bonus = 200 MA).-Potency => DPS Mod. (at like a 1:0.5 ratio, 200 potency = 100 DPS mod).Obviously conversion ratios just an example. But such a change would allow melee priests DPS to scale up based on their acquisition of better gear with better stats.</blockquote>Actually, they already itemize seperately for plate tanks and leather tanks, at least in some reguards. And bards, especially troubies, are getting screwed by the scout itemization.. as bards have about 1/2 of their CAs actaully being spells.. but they don't get any spell boosts.I agree that the easiest way to address this would be to have all the new 'spell multi-attack' etc stuff be merged with regular multi-attack.. that way caster priests and melee priests get the same benifit.. w/o having to itemize seperately.They've given melee specs to 1/2 the priests, I don't understand how they can legitimately pretend that there aren't melee priests.. since they've MADE them that way in their design.

Odys

08-16-2011, 05:53 PM

It would indeed had been wiser to let potency affect auto attack and to let MA/flurry in small values.Note also that AA is not the only issue, Ca reuse and Ca scaling is another one.The problem probably affect all the battlepriest but my warden is more affected than my mystic.

Zural

08-16-2011, 06:01 PM

I think the solution is very simple. Remove the archetype restriction on all loot and just leave the type of armor affect what you can where, ie plate = any plate class, leather = leather classes etc.My problem with this expansion isnt the fact that they didnt itemize melee priests, its that they used itemization to differenciate archetypes and archetype dps.Another option may be to just remove the archetype restrictions on all jewelry and allow freedom of choice for all jewelry.

Ragin_Goblin

08-16-2011, 07:06 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>The reason melee priests aren't itemized is that to do so would require them to break item budgets.</blockquote>I understand that items have budgets that limit the amount of stats an item has but they obviously have plans to itemize gear with these new stats that affect Spell Auto Attack (SAA). Where is the extra budget for those items coming from? They have to be raising the item budget to allow for the new stats on gear otherwise the devs are wasting their time implementing this absurd SAA mechanic. They can't be lowering stats in other areas to make room for the new SAA stats. No healer or caster worth their weight would give up primary skill set stats like WIS/INT & STA, Crit, CB, Pot for the new SAA stats.The only other way I could see them itemizing the new SAA mechanic is to only put new SAA stats on the new ranged slot wands. If that is the case the stats would be too low to make much of a difference and still keep it all under budget.Im not trying to argue with you Bandit. Im just trying to understand why SOE seems to have given melee priests the middle finger by flat out saying you guys wont be itemized but then turning around and introducing this new mechanic that 1/4-1/3 (if you include melee enchanters) of the classes its intended for dont even want.

Valentina

08-16-2011, 07:40 PM

<cite>Zural wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think the solution is very simple. Remove the archetype restriction on all loot and just leave the type of armor affect what you can where, ie plate = any plate class, leather = leather classes etc.My problem with this expansion isnt the fact that they didnt itemize melee priests, its that they used itemization to differenciate archetypes and archetype dps.</blockquote>This. If people can go back to choosing armour based on type (plate/chain/leather/cloth), they can mix and match stats to fit their playstyle, just like they used to be able to do, before itemization became a homogenized, broken mess.

Valentina

08-16-2011, 07:45 PM

(and maybe every item won't have just the primary stat (and stamina) for their archetype, but the primary stats of whichever classes can wear that armour type. How crazy would that be? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Ragin_Goblin

08-16-2011, 08:55 PM

<cite>Valentina@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>(and maybe every item won't have just the primary stat (and stamina) for their archetype, but the primary stats of whichever classes can wear that armour type. How crazy would that be? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>This wont happen, because every encouner in this xpac would have to be downtuned to take the players having a lower health/power pool in account and their overall output would be lower due to lower primary stat numbers. Like Bandit said, items have a budget that the devs cannot go over. To give an item 3 stats instead of 2 would require lower numbers on all 3 stats. Take plate for example if it currently has 100 STR and 100 STA on it the devs would have to lower the stats to 66 STR, 66 WIS and 66 STA to keep the item under budget.

Mosha D'Khan

08-16-2011, 09:03 PM

<cite>Sorvex@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mosha DKhan wrote:</cite><blockquote>i get the point were you got your so called "dps gear" last xpac. but just my thoughts is you should have never got something like that. letting you use the tank gear was a bad choice. and i know people are going to argue with me about it and i dont much less care but before the merged crit chance you either picked heal or melee and you guys could do 1 or the other. and gear had never really been given to do both. if the gear last xpac (green stat wise) mattered like it did this xpac and there was no wisdom on the tank stuff would guess alot of you would not use it if the game worked the same way it does now.</blockquote>Please see the Inquisitor Armor from WOE Thx.You are a Tank/dps hybrid.... My Inq is a Heal/dps hybrid. I cast plenty of heals but I would like to acctually have stats that improve the melee side of my character.... It would be like saying your bruiser should be able to tank but your DPS should not be itemized...</blockquote>pls see the part were i said you got to pick on or the other. the dps gear at the time limited your heals were the heal gear limited dps as it does now. ty try again

Mosha D'Khan

08-16-2011, 09:07 PM

<cite>EvilAstroboy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mosha DKhan wrote:</cite><blockquote>A lot of useless rubbish.</blockquote>I'm sorry if your healers are terrible and cannot do two things at once. Personally I overheal the group and still have 3/4 of the time left to contribute to DPS. Yes the primary job of a healer is to keep a group alive, but after a certain point of overhealing you are just wasting your time and not playing your class to its full potential.Based on your theory, your job as a brawler is to tank and not to DPS. I therefore think that they should remove all multi-attack and flurry from fighter gear and just have +threat procs. See how lame that is? Don't come here trolling.</blockquote>lol go for it, see how long you can keep the scouts or mages up as the rip agro since +threat does nothing at all what so ever to a 700k assassinate. that and well guess you dont know how the brawler class works since they only gave use 2 non ae taunts (not counting rescues) love you editing the post to useless rubbish some one is butt hurt lolU MAD BRO?

EvilAstroboy

08-16-2011, 09:35 PM

<cite></cite>Haha, no. I edited it because it was an unnecessary wall of text that was indeed full of useless rubbish. Judging by your whiny response to me turning the tables back on you, I think you are the one who is mad bro.SoE could easily give fighters much higher threat and much lower damage, in fact they did just that in the proposed fighter revamp last year. Except the fighters got all whiny over it because they wanted to be T2 DPS.How many years did we all have to listen to brawlers whine about their lack of proper itemisation? And now you come here telling priests how to play their class, when you are obviously ignorant as to how battle-priests operate. Like I said before, go troll elsewhere if you don't have anything intelligent to add.

thegriss

08-17-2011, 10:20 AM

<cite>Mosha DKhan wrote:</cite><blockquote>lol go for it, see how long you can keep the scouts or mages up as the rip agro since +threat does nothing at all what so ever to a 700k assassinate. that and well guess you dont know how the brawler class works since they only gave use 2 non ae taunts (not counting rescues) love you editing the post to useless rubbish some one is butt hurt lolU MAD BRO?</blockquote>Easy fix 1 point of damage from the tank does 5 points of threat before modification. Tank now does not need dps to hold aggro remove multi attack and DPS mod from tank gear. Thats your stance put in a way so you understand our issue. You dont need DPS gear to do your job its easier just to change your base modifier and not gear you to do DPS. Im sure you would not mind this fix because you dont believe in having gear avalible to a class designed around needing it.

urgthock

08-17-2011, 10:57 AM

<cite>Ragin_Goblin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Valentina@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>(and maybe every item won't have just the primary stat (and stamina) for their archetype, but the primary stats of whichever classes can wear that armour type. How crazy would that be? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>This wont happen, because every encouner in this xpac would have to be downtuned to take the players having a lower health/power pool in account and their overall output would be lower due to lower primary stat numbers. Like Bandit said, items have a budget that the devs cannot go over. To give an item 3 stats instead of 2 would require lower numbers on all 3 stats. Take plate for example if it currently has 100 STR and 100 STA on it the devs would have to lower the stats to 66 STR, 66 WIS and 66 STA to keep the item under budget.</blockquote>Actually that isn't true. There would be no reason or need to change the amount of any given stat on any given piece of gear. Using a plate armor item as an example, plate can be worn by Clerics, Warriors and Crusaders. Changing the stats on said piece of plate gear from 100 STR and 100 STA to 100 STR 100 STA and 100 WIS would have no issues since if you are a cleric and you equip that item, you gain nothing from the 100 STR and effectively it is a piece of gear that gives you 100 STA and 100 WIS. If you are a warrior or crusader and you equip that item, you gain nothing from the 100 WIS and effectively it is a piece of gear that gives you 100 STR and 100 STA. Not one single class could gain the benefits of all three stats at 100, so for each class, it would essentially just be an item with two stats at 100 and the "budget" would not need to even be considered.

thegriss

08-17-2011, 11:07 AM

<cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ragin_Goblin wrote:</cite>Actually that isn't true. There would be no reason or need to change the amount of any given stat on any given piece of gear. Using a plate armor item as an example, plate can be worn by Clerics, Warriors and Crusaders. Changing the stats on said piece of plate gear from 100 STR and 100 STA to 100 STR 100 STA and 100 WIS would have no issues since if you are a cleric and you equip that item, you gain nothing from the 100 STR and effectively it is a piece of gear that gives you 100 STA and 100 WIS. If you are a warrior or crusader and you equip that item, you gain nothing from the 100 WIS and effectively it is a piece of gear that gives you 100 STR and 100 STA. Not one single class could gain the benefits of all three stats at 100, so for each class, it would essentially just be an item with two stats at 100 and the "budget" would not need to even be considered.</blockquote>This +1. Honestly If SOE would drop us a basic plan for the upcoming reforging we would know where to aim our thoughts on Gear and give good feedback ahead of time.

Zural

08-17-2011, 11:30 AM

Unfortunately, given what I have seen this expansion, there will most likely be tremendous flexibility in how you can actually adjust the stats with the expansion. This alone will not solve the problem as the majority of priest gear is essentially nerfed to reduce our dps in relationship to the other archetypes. Compare the stats on priest gear vs an equivalent piece of scout gear, for the miniscule amount of cast speed and reuse we get, they get huge dps and ma.By providing priests with equivalent stat gear, ie fighter gear with 20+ MA on every piece, they would be allowing us to DPS once again to the level we had achieved in SF in relation to the other archetypes. Just free up the current gear to be worn by anyone of that armor class type. Heck, you dont even need to add the wisdom to each piece of gear, that could be part of the sacrifice incurred to be able to have that extra 20+ MA from the other archetypes current gear.

Odys

08-17-2011, 01:31 PM

By how much mage/scout/fighter dps has been raised ?Probably by 4 those who were doing 30k now do 120K.battlepriest dps was not raised as much.Long on trash i outparsed the MT, quite normal since on trash no healing is needed. So priest only job is to do damage while the MT is only one tanking among 24 people.Now I see the MT often in the top 5, alway in the top 10 and even with perfect timing no AA loss i cannot even outparse an AFk dirge that only turned auto attack on.SOE probably lost already a lot of customers due to their choice to insult 1/4 of the game population. They may loose more and more, and if 1-80 is itemized like 90, soon we will see no healer at all. Indeed if you check in PQ you will only see fighters/mage and scouts, and PQ are a sample of the new level 90 population.

DxPreist1

08-17-2011, 01:57 PM

Honestly they just need to merge the new spell auto stats and Melee auto boosts, that way when they are handing out bonuses they will apply to both groups, the new stat itemization would help both out as they could melee more effectively or range melee if hugging is not viable.I have no problem if they thought melee healers were a bit OP last xpak but NO movement/Downward is pretty sorry give the DPS jumps this Xpac for everyone else.

thegriss

08-18-2011, 10:12 AM

Well they are adding Melee priest stats into the game now just not on any DOV gear lol. So sad

Faeward

08-18-2011, 10:45 AM

They kinda did something with Fighter items... you can get an offensive or a defensive item for a fighter. Same should apply to Priest. Back in TSO, there was a DPS and a Healing gear set.In raids, people loot an item blueprint or something, and that can be unpacked in to the actual item. The blueprint should contain items for melee and dps priest.

Banditman

08-18-2011, 11:13 AM

<cite>Inglip@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>They kinda did something with Fighter items... you can get an offensive or a defensive item for a fighter. Same should apply to Priest. Back in TSO, there was a DPS and a Healing gear set.In raids, people loot an item blueprint or something, and that can be unpacked in to the actual item. The blueprint should contain items for melee and dps priest.</blockquote>This is no longer acceptable.There needs to be 1 set that does it all for Priests. I understand why you can't do that with Fighter gear.However, a "caster" Priest can heal and DPS in the same gear, thus, a melee Priest should also have the same advantage.