Wizards [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

SacDaddy420

08-14-2011, 01:48 PM

Are supposed to be the de-facto "glass cannons". Nobody should even come close to a wizard when he unleashes his fiery wrath upon a single target. I should have:cloth armor (check)minimal utility (check)unparalled nukes (chec.....oh wait...every class wants to be a sorceror now and do sorc damage...)I get frustrated when I see things like one single auto attack hits 9 times for 112K each. This is not a joke or an exageration. I'm fully prepared for all the "you're terrible" replies but I'll just let my past and experience speak for themselves. I've probably been playing this class longer than anyone even reading this.I'd like to be proud to be a wizard again. Yea every minute and a half I can hit for 2.5-3 million manaburns. And if there's like 6 adds in a fight I can do a 2-3 million Fiery Blast. Maybe these numbers sound amazing to some but to me they arent that special, since I know that Lifeburn/TW'd EB match manaburn and nothing come close to the carnage a lock gets on ae with Focused Casting Auto attacks alone can do more than 2 mil every 20 seconds. Give me a break.Up our damage please. And give us something similiar to Focused Casting.

Nevao

08-14-2011, 02:02 PM

<cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Are supposed to be the de-facto "glass cannons". Nobody should even come close to a wizard when he unleashes his fiery wrath upon a single target. I should have:cloth armor (check)minimal utility (check)unparalled nukes (chec.....oh wait...every class wants to be a sorceror now and do sorc damage...)I get frustrated when I see things like one single auto attack hits 9 times for 112K each. This is not a joke or an exageration. I'm fully prepared for all the "you're terrible" replies but I'll just let my past and experience speak for themselves. I've probably been playing this class longer than anyone even reading this.I'd like to be proud to be a wizard again. Yea every minute and a half I can hit for 2.5-3 million manaburns. And if there's like 6 adds in a fight I can do a 2-3 million Fiery Blast. Guess what? Auto attacks alone can do more than that every 20 seconds. Give me a break.Up our damage please.</blockquote>/sighLast time I check there were four T1 damage classes (with three others sitting in a 1.5ish state). It was intended that all 4 T1 do roughly the same damage. Right now that's closer than it's been in a long time. Why up Wizard DPS so they can be #1 without a contest? What do they have to deserve such honor? Seriously man, you need to to stop asking the Dev's to push you up to the point to where no other class can compete just becuase you rolled a wizard and you're used to being able to dominate in previous expansions without breaking a sweat or putting down whatever it is you smoke.And before you even open your mouth, the survivablity argument is utterly pointless. Last time I checked a scout in chain dies just as quickly by being too close in as Wizard and both classes are now getting roughly the same amount of STA on gear.As for the damage ratio of Auto Attack to Combat Arts, yes it has gotten out of whack if you only look at raw numbers. The % of AA to CA damage though is roughly the same as it's been in previous expansions though (discounting Dirges). But the fix to this "problem" needs to be on the scout side so that AA damage is lowered and CA damage is raised to compensate evenly, not to just go "ok Sorcs should just get a damage increase".The amusing part though is I notice you never argue for locks even though all of your arguments should "apply" them just as much.

SacDaddy420

08-14-2011, 02:04 PM

then I would ask the same question to you. Why should auto attack boost you to the top so easily and effortlessly?Correct me if Im wrong but when new players roll a wizard looking at the class descriptions they still read almost identical to the first sentence in my OP.They should change that.

SacDaddy420

08-14-2011, 02:09 PM

and no it is not "the closest it has ever been"right now a geared predator who is skilled and tries is on top. Case closed no contest from anyone else.

Nevao

08-14-2011, 02:09 PM

<cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>then I would ask the same question to you. Why should auto attack boost you to the top so easily?</blockquote>They don't. I see Assassins, Wizards and Locks in my guild duking it out all the time. No one is guarenteed the top parse anymore and that's the way it should be.As for Auto Attack boosting to the top, with the execption of Dirges and perhaps Rangers, the % of damage auto attack does has not changed drastically in years. And it's been openly acknowledged in both the case of Dirges and Rangers that adjustments need to be made.You don't like the scout mechanic, that's fine. Pesonally I think it requires more skill than you want to give credit for but you'll never see that point of view. But regardless giving you a boost because you don't like having to compete is ridiculous.

SacDaddy420

08-14-2011, 02:12 PM

more skill to turn on auto attack? Now whos smokin the good stuff.

Nevao

08-14-2011, 02:13 PM

<cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>and no it is not "the closest it has ever been"right now a geared predator who is skilled and tries is on top. Case closed no contest from anyone else.</blockquote>Then ask to be made equal, not made #1 by default. I get that it hurts you when Maple beats you on the parse man, but this crusade of yours if painfully obvious. You want Wizards to always win the parse without having to try. That's not going to happen.

SacDaddy420

08-14-2011, 02:15 PM

you are wrong and I just want things to actually be "equal". I see the game every night at the highest end, which you do not.Its not surprising to me at all tho that no melee class agrees with me. Gee I wonder why....

Nevao

08-14-2011, 02:17 PM

<cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>more skill to turn on auto attack? Now whos smokin the good stuff.</blockquote>If you actually ever played one you'd know that you actually have to time stuff man. You have to worry about postion not just for AA but CAs as well, and if the mob moves or you have to switch targets you have to adjust back to the right posisition. You can't just sit back and go "whee I win!", yes even on a Ranger.It's not like a wizard where you could just face roll and win up until this expansion.See, I can make pointless untrue assumptions as well man, I have to admit your style of arguments is kind of fun.

SacDaddy420

08-14-2011, 02:19 PM

you are a fool and do not understand that if a wizard is not within 10 meters of a mob, he loses a giant chunk of dps. Guess what I have to joust all those ae's too or rely on blockers when Im playing to my max potential. Oh and attacking on the run? yea cant do that. Come at me with something else.I am fully aware of the need to time auto attacks. This isnt my first rodeo, cowboy.

SacDaddy420

08-14-2011, 02:23 PM

<cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote>You can't just sit back and go "whee I win!", yes even on a Ranger.</blockquote>oh yes you can

Geothe

08-14-2011, 02:36 PM

.... wizard complaining about how they DPS?This is a troll thread, right?

RogueSpideyChick

08-14-2011, 02:38 PM

S_M_I_T_E

08-14-2011, 02:41 PM

The numbers of Wizards guilds are running are dropping below that of summoners since they're easier to as much DPS from vs a Wiz. Especially at the raid level. Come on, do we all really think that Cleric Divine Guidance was to cushion the mage group from AOEs? Nah, it's for more Lifeburn numbers. Sac has an Inq and I'm suprised he's not using this information in his exposition.Basically back when there used to be 15 Wiz LFG in QH back in 05' they started the nerfing of the "popular" namesake classes and instead tuned them to be uber under specific settings i.e. you bettter be in a specific group with specific buffs form certain classes. Some classes are more independent from others. Wiz hasn't been it and still isn't independent yet. Everything still has to be right for a wiz to shine.

SacDaddy420

08-14-2011, 02:41 PM

I think its funny people saying I dont like to compete....when the only reason I still log into this old game every night is to do just that....Hey when will Spell Auto Attack be at 40% flurry and 600% MA? Just wonderin.

Talathion

08-14-2011, 02:45 PM

Wizards never die...What is funny is Wizards have 51% Physical Mitigation (+Heal Critting Wards/Damage Reduction AA) so he has more of a chance to survive big non-physical AOEs and can stand away from the mob safely nuking.Wizards also get more HP Buffs then Berserkers do <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Nevao

08-14-2011, 02:47 PM

<cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>you are a fool and do not understand that if a wizard is not within 10 meters of a mob, he loses a giant chunk of dps. Guess what I have to joust all those ae's too or rely on blockers when Im playing to my max potential. Oh and attacking on the run? yea cant do that. Come at me with something else.I am fully aware of the need to time auto attacks. This isnt my first rodeo, cowboy.</blockquote>Wait you lose a significant amount of DPS when you can't use Thunderclap in less than 10 meters? Wait, that ability must be Overpowered!!!!!!!!!!! Nerf it and make Wizards earn their DPS the hard way!!!!! No classes DPS should be based on so simple a mechanic! /RAGEIsn't that how your logic train usually works?And I know this isn't your first rodeo, we've seen these arguments from you countless times on Flames, though you sure do like to leave a lot of the facts out when you make your arguments. When you're winning parses you boast about how great wizards are, when you don't like what locks get you complain, when you get beat by a ranger you complain. But that's neither here nor there. Nor is your argument about top end guilds or contents. The Wizards in the two best US and Russian guilds don't feel the need to spew this all over both sets of forums. They just do what needs to be done to compete. You instead ask for dev's to boost you so you can win your guilds parse. And that's why you get argued with. You've never asked to be equal, you've always asked to be given the uncontested advantage.But as entertaining as this is, I'm breaking my new rule on arguing on the internet. Good luck with your endeaver man, but don't be surprised if most people don't agree with you and you don't get what you want.

SacDaddy420

08-14-2011, 02:54 PM

<cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote> The Wizards in the two best US and Russian guilds don't feel the need to spew this all over both sets of forums.</blockquote>Well guess what the wizard in the 3rd best guild does and he is tired of seeing overpowered auto attack crush his little dreams.make sorcerors equal to predators.

Talathion

08-14-2011, 02:57 PM

<cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote> The Wizards in the two best US and Russian guilds don't feel the need to spew this all over both sets of forums.</blockquote>Well guess what the wizard in the 3rd best guild does and he is tired of seeing overpowered auto attack crush his little dreams.make sorcerors equal to predators.</blockquote>WIZARDS NEVER DIE!!!

SacDaddy420

08-14-2011, 02:59 PM

Also besides Tclapx3 you forgot,FusionBlast of Devand Firestormwhich are all significant. We have to be close.edit: Wizards never Die

Amanathia

08-14-2011, 03:55 PM

Gaige

08-14-2011, 04:28 PM

<cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote> Why should auto attack boost you to the top so easily and effortlessly?</blockquote>It doesn't. You, as always, are exaggerating.<div><cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>right now a geared predator who is skilled and tries is on top. Case closed no contest from anyone else.</blockquote>Just because you can't beat Maplewood doesn't mean predators always win.<div><cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>I see the game every night at the highest end, which you do not.</blockquote>I do, and you're still wrong. Koncept and I are always going back and forth depending on who has what up, encounter duration and which encounter it is. We're not the only ones competing either, our swash is really good and so is our necro~Your problem is that your first "big" guild was DA, a guild never known for their DPS. They tanked and healed things to death as a strategy and therefore they always had players who never parsed that well. You're in a guild now with competitive DPS and you don't win by a landslide no matter what you do so obviously your class is broken.~~~</div></div>

Necroponic

08-14-2011, 04:53 PM

<cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote> Nobody should even come close to a wizard when he unleashes his fiery wrath upon a single target. </blockquote>I disagree.....summoners should stay/be on par with sorceror's

Alenna

08-14-2011, 05:00 PM

<cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>more skill to turn on auto attack? Now whos smokin the good stuff.</blockquote>If you actually ever played one you'd know that you actually have to time stuff man. You have to worry about postion not just for AA but CAs as well, and if the mob moves or you have to switch targets you have to adjust back to the right posisition. You can't just sit back and go "whee I win!", yes even on a Ranger.It's not like a wizard where you could just face roll and win up until this expansion.See, I can make pointless untrue assumptions as well man, I have to admit your style of arguments is kind of fun.</blockquote>+1

Alenna

08-14-2011, 05:04 PM

<cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote>You can't just sit back and go "whee I win!", yes even on a Ranger.</blockquote>oh yes you can</blockquote>Since when!!!! especially Rangers we have to be in a certain range to be able to get use of all our combat arts(we have both ranged and melee all of which are neccesary to put out the dps. No Auto Attack alone does not give us our high dps we have to use our CAs also and time them so that our auto attack can still get through.Stop making a fool of yourself assuming you know what you are talking about.

SacDaddy420

08-14-2011, 07:20 PM

<cite>Alenna@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Since when!!!! especially Rangers we have to be in a certain range to be able to get use of all our combat arts(we have both ranged and melee all of which are neccesary to put out the dps. No Auto Attack alone does not give us our high dps we have to use our CAs also and time them so that our auto attack can still get through.Stop making a fool of yourself assuming you know what you are talking about.</blockquote>This isnt even what Im talking about. Some of you people try too hard to put words in my mouth. I dont care where you gotta stand...but hey guess what I'm probably right there next to you. I understand you have to time CA's to get the other 40% of your damage...I'd like sorceror profession spells to receive a small boost and wizards to get a 100% sda temp. This will allow me to completely faceroll my keyboard and win all parses by 300K. Just like I did back in the old days.

gourdon

08-14-2011, 07:37 PM

<cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>more skill to turn on auto attack? Now whos smokin the good stuff.</blockquote>Using autoattack takes skill since CAs interrupt autoattack.

gourdon

08-14-2011, 07:46 PM

ShamusOB

08-14-2011, 08:11 PM

<cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Alenna@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Since when!!!! especially Rangers we have to be in a certain range to be able to get use of all our combat arts(we have both ranged and melee all of which are neccesary to put out the dps. No Auto Attack alone does not give us our high dps we have to use our CAs also and time them so that our auto attack can still get through.Stop making a fool of yourself assuming you know what you are talking about.</blockquote>This isnt even what Im talking about. Some of you people try too hard to put words in my mouth. I dont care where you gotta stand...but hey guess what I'm probably right there next to you. I understand you have to time CA's to get the other 40% of your damage...I'd like sorceror profession spells to receive a small boost and wizards to get a 100% sda temp. This will allow me to completely faceroll my keyboard and win all parses by 300K. Just like I did back in the old days.</blockquote>So you dont want to try anymore? Mages are getting a boost with a spell auto attack already and you can faceroll without out even timing your spells around it. A luxuary melee doesnt get.All melee CAs Need a huge boost~!(except assassins)

Elskidor

08-14-2011, 08:23 PM

Posted on this the other day I think. I don't generally stick up for the wizard since I play Lock..gives me an icky feeling, but I agree. Scouts are very pleased where they stand because half their dps comes from no skill, and the other half only takes a little. Wizzies and Locks have to try just a little 100% of the time and don't get that freeby "I am suxor, but can still out dps you by doing nothing. Yay I so uba."

Talathion

08-14-2011, 08:39 PM

I'm a berserker and 90.9% of my DPS comes from autoattack, youmad?

Davngr1

08-14-2011, 08:51 PM

<cite>ShamusOB wrote:</cite><blockquote>All melee CAs Need a huge boost~!(except assassins)</blockquote> wut? if all CA's get a boost then assassin will need to get a boost as well or be left behind by proxy.

ShamusOB

08-14-2011, 08:59 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ShamusOB wrote:</cite><blockquote>All melee CAs Need a huge boost~!(except assassins)</blockquote> wut? if all CA's get a boost then assassin will need to get a boost as well or be left behind by proxy.</blockquote>Are you kidding? Look at assassin dps breakdowns compaired to everyone else. Auto attack is 30ish% of their dps. Look at everyone else fighters included doing 50ish% of their dps from Auto attack. Boost their CAs so the other melee classes aren't as auto attack dependant as Assassins.

Gaige

08-14-2011, 09:03 PM

<cite>Elskidor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wizzies and Locks have to try just a little 100% of the time and don't get that freeby "I am suxor, but can still out dps you by doing nothing. Yay I so uba." </blockquote>Actually, with GU61, casters will receive the ONLY TRULY PASSIVE UNINTERRUPTIBLE DPS IN THE ENTIRE GAME.If any melee is outdpsing you with PURELY AUTOATTACK you are a TERRIBLE PLAYER.

Trensharo

08-15-2011, 01:13 AM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Elskidor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wizzies and Locks have to try just a little 100% of the time and don't get that freeby "I am suxor, but can still out dps you by doing nothing. Yay I so uba." </blockquote>Actually, with GU61, casters will receive the ONLY TRULY PASSIVE UNINTERRUPTIBLE DPS IN THE ENTIRE GAME.If any melee is outdpsing you with PURELY AUTOATTACK you are a TERRIBLE PLAYER.</blockquote>That spell auto attack hits for nothing. Really. It will help procrages, though, so /shrug. That's about it. Most mages will not hunt those stats. By the time it does hit for a decent amount, the DPS cieling will have gone up so much that it will will be non-factor.Also, Procs, etc. that occur as the result of an Auto Attack also goes in with it. You get factorably more than 30% from Auto Attack when you add in the additional procs, etc. that occur as a result of it. That's a pretty basic concept that I have seen you are adept at throwing aside.Melee Auto Attack is completely passive. I guess whether you cop out of that depends on how you look at it. Do you time the actual Auto Attacks, or just the CA/Skill uses in between the passive Auto Attack triggers? Only diff between spell and melee Auto Attack is the Spell Auto Attack fires while you're casting and I'm assuming cannot be interrupted.

maplewood333

08-15-2011, 01:14 AM

Yes, I agree rangers take no skill to play but people can say that about any class. Auto attack is just going out of control even in SF i thought i was getting crazy when flurry and AOE auto was give to rangers but now when in raids i can get like 50% flurry and 600%+ MA rangers need to be changed. Not in an out right nerf, lol i still wana dps and top parses but change our auto attack, give us more Ranged CA's not melee CA's...... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.WTB nerf to auto attack..... just give us more ranged CA's and less melee, than rangers=fixed end of story.

Gaige

08-15-2011, 01:15 AM

Why do you guys insist on thinking 2 minutes ahead like SOE.SURE MAGE AUTOATTACK PASRSES LOW ON TEST, BUT WILL IT IN A YEAR? IN TWO YEARS? NO. It will also be the ONLY passive UNINTERRUPTIBLE dps in the entire game.Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:<div><blockquote>You get factorably more than 30% from Auto Attack when you add in the additional procs, etc. that occur as a result of it.</blockquote>Who cares, I don't. Routinely 6 of my top 10 parsing abilities are CAs that I press, not procs.<div><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Melee Auto Attack is completely passive.Only diff between spell and melee Auto Attack is the Spell Auto Attack fires while you're casting and I'm assuming cannot be interrupted.</blockquote>Wrong, melee auto attack can be interrupted. Mage auto attack can't.</div></div>

Trensharo

08-15-2011, 01:20 AM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why do you guys insist on thinking 2 minutes ahead like SOE.SURE MAGE AUTOATTACK PASRSES LOW ON TEST, BUT WILL IT IN A YEAR? IN TWO YEARS? NO. It will also be the ONLY passive UNINTERRUPTIBLE dps in the entire game.Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:<div><blockquote>You get factorably more than 30% from Auto Attack when you add in the additional procs, etc. that occur as a result of it.</blockquote>Who cares, I don't. Routinely 6 of my top 10 parsing abilities are CAs that I press, not procs.<div><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Melee Auto Attack is completely passive.Only diff between spell and melee Auto Attack is the Spell Auto Attack fires while you're casting and I'm assuming cannot be interrupted.</blockquote>Wrong, melee auto attack can be interrupted. Mage auto attack can't.</div></div></blockquote>Do you even read what you quote? It's not set it and forget it, but it's passive. As passive as a passive buff that can be dispell as far as I'm concerned. Yes, you may have to recast it, but while it's going the only thing that matters is when the attacks land because the Auto Attack isn't timing, the CA/Skill use is. When I say I assume Spell AA cannot be interupted, that infers that I KNOW melee AA CAN be interrupted. Otherwise the distinction is useless to make or mention.But seriously, do read what you quote before pressing buttons and using odd font sizes, etc.Also, you care because I see you arguing that the procs don't matter when they come form auto attack, and that it's only 30%. That's wrong.In 2 years the mage auto attack will still be non-factor, because I doubt it was implemented as any meaningful DPS increase for mages. I doubt it will ever comprise more than 3-5% of a mage's parse this expansin or next with the changes they are implementing. How about you worry about now and not two years in the future?You don't care cause you're wrong. Go back and add in the procs (yet, go through the log since you're always trying to be so definitive) and then come back and tell us how much % damage comes form auto attack and the procs it triggers. Without the attack, that extra damage wouldn't occur. That's why it matters and that's why both people and devs SHOULD care about it.I don't care what you care about tho <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Gaige

08-15-2011, 01:30 AM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>How about you worry about now and not two years in the future?</blockquote>I tried that and they nerfed my MA, remember?<div><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Go back and add in the procs (yet, go through the log since you're always trying to be so definitive) and then come back and tell us how much % damage comes form auto attack and the procs it triggers. Without the attack, that extra damage wouldn't occur. </blockquote>You can't do that, because procs trigger off CAs as well so attributing them all to auto attack is wrong and if I did that, I'd be wrong like you.</div>

Trensharo

08-15-2011, 04:18 AM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>How about you worry about now and not two years in the future?</blockquote>I tried that and they nerfed my MA, remember?<div><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Go back and add in the procs (yet, go through the log since you're always trying to be so definitive) and then come back and tell us how much % damage comes form auto attack and the procs it triggers. Without the attack, that extra damage wouldn't occur. </blockquote>You can't do that, because procs trigger off CAs as well so attributing them all to auto attack is wrong and if I did that, I'd be wrong like you.</div></blockquote>You can go through a log and see what procs were triggered by an auto attack easily. The issue is, it would take way too darn long to do it. I didn't expect you to do it, it was merely rhetorical. I'm not wrong, you are, and you're skirting it.Like I said, I don't expect you to go through any logs and give a breakdown, I'm just illustrating something that seem obvious to everyone but you.Everyone knows procs proc off all sorts of damage types. That doesn't change the fact that procs that proc off auto attack would not exist if not for the AA itself, therefore that damage should be attributed to the AA since it is derived from it.OMG run-on.You're always saying "only 30% of my parse is Auto Attack." That's wrong. Only 30% of your parse is pierce/slashing/whatever. You're neglecting the side products of it.Devs don't have the liberty of using your lazy approaches to observing damage output, nor should they. However, perhaps they're doing it in cognito...

theriatis

08-15-2011, 04:20 AM

<cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wizards never die...What is funny is Wizards have 51% Physical Mitigation (+Heal Critting Wards/Damage Reduction AA) so he has more of a chance to survive big non-physical AOEs and can stand away from the mob safely nuking.Wizards also get more HP Buffs then Berserkers do <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Wizards never die ? Lol ? On my Server, Place 1-10 most deaths are 4 Wizards in it. I'm one of them.Heal Critting Wards ? Sorry, must have missed that AA... and Mitigation... well, a few hundred if i gave up 5 AA Slots.If i stay away from the Mob i FREAKINGLY DO LESS DAMAGE.Fusion... 15m Range, Cone AE. Thunderblast... only shines within 10m Range... Fiery Blast... oh well.And the Big Nuke - Manaburn. Yeah, you know what that means ? No Mana. Until i spec Sanguine Sacrifice or have a real good Illu in the Group, that was it for me.And still, if i have no Troub&Illu in the Group, i'm doing 30% less Damage. Just for those buffs.Start playing a wizz with nearly no useful Raid-Utility and now NEW also average Damage and then you can complain.I was Nr1 in DPS in my Raidforce in SF, hands down. In DoV i'm usually somewhere from 1-5 (depends on Buffs, Shortbuffs or if the other classes big hitters are up - the other classes, which do have a freaking lot more utility than i do.)Regards, theriatis.

theriatis

08-15-2011, 04:22 AM

<cite>Necroponic wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote> Nobody should even come close to a wizard when he unleashes his fiery wrath upon a single target. </blockquote>I disagree.....summoners should stay/be on par with sorceror's</blockquote>Yeah, Sorceres should do at least as much DPS than Summoners this Expansion, i'm with you here.Also, get me all of the Utility Summoners have, to make us equal.Thanks.

theriatis

08-15-2011, 04:26 AM

<cite>gourdon wrote:</cite><blockquote>Your "glass cannon" status gives you easy mode ranged dps and roots, not exclusive right to top dps.</blockquote>Roots = Not working on Epics.Ranged DPS = Fusion, 15m Range. Thunderclap 10m Range. Fiery Blast... oh hey, thats an amazing range here !I'm losing DPS just by standing far away. In DoV i have to be in at least 10m Range of the Mob. Things changed since SF.And Everyone who is playing a Wiz since at least SF knows that.

daray

08-15-2011, 04:33 AM

Wizards aren't excessively far behind atm. As someone in this thread said, balance between the top 4 dps classes is actually closer than it has been in a while, but it is always going to be tough balancing classes equally under all scenarios, under all raid-setups, and under all buff distributions (e.g. just look at the relative differences of a warlock with/without UT; compared to a wizard with/without TC).However, one thing which could / should be looked at is the wizard expertise / endlines under the wizard tree (while the devs are actually busy revising this tree and other classes' expertise abilities) - especially now that there are no "line" or "point-sink" requirements for any of the classes to get these expertise abilities.Fireshape and IceshapeThese either need something added to them to bring them up to endline quality,or, merged up into the Enhance: Frigid Gift / Enhance: Surge of Ro (on the 4th row) as a "Rank 5" additional enhancement and then 2 new expertise abilities added in their place.The first option would probably be the easiest, and in the case of Iceshape, it could be utilised to offer an additional group benefit (since it is modifying a group temp buff).

Davngr1

08-15-2011, 07:10 AM

here's something that range damage always neglects to point out when these disccusions come up. it's really simple and if this isin't 100% accurate then indeed range dps should get a massive boost. at 0m-10m from the mob with no aoe's to worry about: melee dps= 100% potential ranged dps= 100% potential at 15m to 20m from the mob with aoe's or flat out range fight: melee dps= 20% - 30% potential ranged dps = 70%-80% potential now.. if range dps and melee dps did the same damage why the heck would anyone want to bring along melee dps? maybe debuffs? is that hard to understand? it's really not and that's why things are the way they are because that's what "balance" is. i don't like the spell auto and i didn't like the MA uncapp. i guess we'll wait and see what happens.

Gaige

08-15-2011, 12:45 PM

<cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was Nr1 in DPS in my Raidforce in SF, hands down. In DoV i'm usually somewhere from 1-5</blockquote>Right, SF wasn't balanced and DoV is, since you know there are at least 5 classes you should be competing with parse wise.

Loldawg

08-15-2011, 01:15 PM

Its funny to hear about sorcs saying they have no survivability. They have more than any other mage. And utility, how about Frigid Gift, which parses higher than Elemental Tox.Equally geared mages with equal skill, the sorc will always be on top.

Banditman

08-15-2011, 01:49 PM

<cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also, get me all of the Utility Summoners have, to make us equal.Thanks.</blockquote>You got it. You can have it. Our (*$@ty bard pet. Shards. Welcome to it.

Necroponic

08-15-2011, 01:57 PM

yeah our utility is a joke now....and after gu 61 still will be. and yeah frigid gift blows ET out of the water.

Necroponic

08-15-2011, 01:59 PM

<cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote>And the Big Nuke - Manaburn. Yeah, you know what that means ? No Mana. Until i spec Sanguine Sacrifice or have a real good Illu in the Group, that was it for me.</blockquote>QQ a river....at least your burn doesn't practicly kill you.

Loldawg

08-15-2011, 02:05 PM

I'll add that on survivability, try having 15K HP, 6000 to 8000 resists, and 25% to 35% mitigation values. That's essentially what summoner pets have - the primariy entity for dps'ing in raid settings (at least for conjy's). You have no idea what a glass cannon is...

Necroponic

08-15-2011, 02:14 PM

I agree with ya on that one.....I see conjy die a lot. pet dies then agro transfer then dead conjy. tbh though all mages are squishy.

Alpharaz

08-15-2011, 03:57 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also, get me all of the Utility Summoners have, to make us equal.Thanks.</blockquote>You got it. You can have it. Our (*$@ty bard pet. Shards. Welcome to it.</blockquote>I agree seriously. if having what pathetic utility we have makes it even for us to be less dps then sorcerers and predators then we might as well be a chanter. Our dps being brought down by atleast 10% anyways with the massive nerf they giving us on GU61 with the loss of our sma so you dont have to worry about us being equal on parse. Atleast with rogues i can understand why they generally have less dps than predators because they bring a lot more to the raid with all those debuffs than just raw dps. Evidently soe shares your opinion that our utility is SOOO good that we need a nerf on our dps to be equal to sorcerer because we got ET (wizards FG brings more dps to the group then ET) and we got shards/hearts and will now be able to reduce power use for the entire group WEEE!! so what will that make us now a weak chanter with slightly higher dps lol. I personally don't see why it's a bad thing that summoners and sorceres having to compete to beat each other on dps parse. I don't think any decent predator or sorcerer has to worry about summoner dps being too high to compete with after GU61 tho, not that it was ever "overpowered" b4 with the broken conjy pet being an aggro hog, but whatever.

Haciv

08-15-2011, 04:14 PM

Necroponic

08-15-2011, 04:53 PM

<cite>Haciv wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also, get me all of the Utility Summoners have, to make us equal.Thanks.</blockquote>You got it. You can have it. Our (*$@ty bard pet. Shards. Welcome to it.</blockquote>I'll GLADLY take your Bard pet. It can do 1 dmg per hit for all I care, as long as it has shared stats and double dips all the group/raid procs & temp buffs for me.That's what is wrong w/ Sorc vs Summoner to me. Pets shouldn't double up (or triple up in some cases...) temps for the owner. It's just not possible to balance mage classes on a solo/group/raid level when one class gets twice as much benefit from temps than the other class.P.S. Nerf Plaguebringer or Boost Hailstorm.</blockquote>your stupid. even when the pets share the stats from buffs, it's not like it makes them over powered in any way.

Elskidor

08-15-2011, 05:32 PM

<cite>Haciv wrote:</cite><blockquote>P.S. Remove Hailstorm altogether, and boost Plaguebringer x3!</blockquote>Hmm, I can live with that.

Jeeshman

08-15-2011, 07:42 PM

I think SacDaddy has a point. I don't want Wizards to beat every other class at DPS; I have no problem whatsoever with the top DPS classes coming to a tie/trading off the #1 spot on parses. But that's not how it works at the moment.To have any hope of making it close to the top of the parse, Wizards have to stand 10 meters or less from the mob. It's a requirement if we want to use some of our hardest-hitting nukes: Fusion, Blast of Devastation, Thunderclap and (against multiple mobs) Firestorm. It's a requirement if we want to keep Furnace of Ro up at all times for its debuff effect. Yet at the same time, we are the weakest paper-bag wearing class out there. It's a running joke with the people I raid with that I'm the dying-est player ever.During raids, I can either try to: (1) get inside 10 meters and die from AOE's, (2) joust in and out, in which case I can't use 99% of my spells during the joust, or (3) I can stand back, in which case I'll be lucky to get in the top 10. Just staying in the top 10 might be ok if I were a Conjy or an Illy or Coercer, and had decent buffs or power regen abilities. But I've got none of that. I'm expected to be in the top 3 and trade off the #1 spot or else there's no point in me coming along.The recent change to Fiery Blast helped, but it didn't do enough to restore balance. In its current implementation, spell auto attack isn't going to increase our DPS very much, if at all. I suggest making it easier for us to joust by giving us the ability to cast nukes on the run or increasing the distance we can cast Fusion, etc.

zorblack

08-15-2011, 07:51 PM

<cite>Lolkat@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Its funny to hear about sorcs saying they have no survivability. They have more than any other mage. And utility, how about Frigid Gift, which parses higher than Elemental Tox.Equally geared mages with equal skill, the sorc will always be on top.</blockquote>Well maybe because to get Frigid Gift that high it takes:<ol><li>Grandmaster Spell</li><li>5 AA points in extending it's duration</li><li>5 AA points to increase it's power</li><li>1 AA point to macro it with Frigid Gift</li><li>1-5 AA points to add a melee proc (more pts more dmg)</li></ol>

zorblack

08-15-2011, 08:00 PM

Sorry I'm way to old school EQ1 to disagree with Sac. Wizards should be single target highest parse. I still hate the existence of warlocks and the two subclass thing. That being said Warlock and Wizards are 2 sides to the same coin. What wizards parse ST a warlock should parse AOE and vice versa.My suggestions for making wizards better.<ol><li>Ice spears should be encounter aoe based.</li><li>Surge of Ro should be group based and the dots should all stack</li><li>Frigid Gift should be Raid AoE</li><li>Converge should have it's hate transfer upped (to give us some utility like an assasin) and the stacking of the spell should be massively improved. This spell stacks with nothing... nothing!</li><li>Hailstorm should be brought in line with plaguebringer dmg.</li><li>Add another illegible target to Fusion so 4 targets</li><li>Spell Reach is a joke. Change it to something that either dmgs or temp ups dmg like focused casting was changed. Or at minimum let it add range to spells like firestorm, fusion, blast of devestation</li></ol>

Gaige

08-15-2011, 08:16 PM

<cite>Shaydu@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>To have any hope of making it close to the top of the parse, Wizards have to stand 10 meters or less from the mob. It's a requirement if we want to use some of our hardest-hitting nukes: Fusion, Blast of Devastation, Thunderclap and (against multiple mobs) Firestorm. It's a requirement if we want to keep Furnace of Ro up at all times for its debuff effect. Yet at the same time, we are the weakest paper-bag wearing class out there. It's a running joke with the people I raid with that I'm the dying-est player ever.</blockquote>Oh no, you have to do what everyone else does!? There is NO difference in survivability in a raid setting between a mage and a scout. None.<div><cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wizards should be single target highest parse. I still hate the existence of warlocks and the two subclass thing. That being said Warlock and Wizards are 2 sides to the same coin. What wizards parse ST a warlock should parse AOE and vice versa.</blockquote>So in your mind wizards should always top single target regardless of all factors and warlocks should always top ae regardless of all factors and everyone else should be happy with fighting for second place?Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.</div>

zorblack

08-15-2011, 08:32 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite> </cite><div><cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wizards should be single target highest parse. I still hate the existence of warlocks and the two subclass thing. That being said Warlock and Wizards are 2 sides to the same coin. What wizards parse ST a warlock should parse AOE and vice versa.</blockquote>So in your mind wizards should always top single target regardless of all factors and warlocks should always top ae regardless of all factors and everyone else should be happy with fighting for second place?Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.</div></blockquote>Mostly. It's not my fault sony destroyed scouts into what they are. You have chain armor you should have more survivability then me. Your a scout... by definition you should have more utility then me (and you do). However on mobs that require a lot of moving mage dmg should drop second to a scouts.You should be on the assassin board complaining about the things your class has wrong with it. The idea of having 4 top dmging classes is pretty stupid.

Alpharaz

08-15-2011, 08:39 PM

<cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote> Wizards should be single target highest parse.</blockquote>are you serious? I dont understand why so many wizards think they honestly SHOULD be top parse lol. predators entire role is to do high end melee dps, are you excluding them or do you honestly just think wizards should excel as the god dps class above all others? Thats like SKs being upset they are no longer the top wanted tank anymore.. .. things change constantly warlocks were way under par the begining of DoV and then they got a huge boost with focused casting in GU60 and before long im sure wizards will be given a boost soon that will put the warlocks to shame becuase soe has always made sure to take care of their precious wizards in the past. summoners dps is getting majorly nerfed, MA is getting a cap. and all mages are getting spell auto atk It seems if anyone should not be upset with their dps its sorcerers. It really blows for wizards right now becuase they actually have to try to compete for top parse i really feel bad for you guys

Circa

08-15-2011, 08:46 PM

/sigh at this thread

zorblack

08-15-2011, 08:49 PM

<cite>Alpharaz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote> Wizards should be single target highest parse.</blockquote>are you serious? I dont understand why so many wizards think they honestly SHOULD be top dps lol. predators entire role is to do high end melee dps, are you excluding them or do you honestly just think wizards should excel as the god dps class above all others? Thats like SKs being upset they are no longer the top wanted tank anymore.. .. things change constantly warlocks were way under par the begining of DoV and then they got a huge boost with focused casting in GU60 and before long im sure wizards will be given a boost soon that will put the warlocks to shame becuase soe has always made sure to take care of their precious wizards in the past. summoners dps is getting majorly nerfed, MA is getting a cap. and all mages are getting spell auto atk It seems if anyone should not be upset with their dps its sorcerers. It really blows for wizards right now becuase they actually have to try to compete for top dps parse i really feel bad for you guys</blockquote>As I told gaige, yes mostly. Having 4 top dpsing classes is just silly. Scouts should be more versatile, have more survivability and be able to do great dmg from behind and on the move.If the mob is turned and we can all be right on his butt and dps the way we want. Equal skilled players, Equal geared toons the wizard should win ST, warlock should win aoe/encounter.There never should have been equal dmg scout & mage counterparts.

Talathion

08-15-2011, 08:50 PM

Berserkers should out damage Wizards on single target! (because I think so)

Gaige

08-15-2011, 08:53 PM

<cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote>You should be on the assassin board complaining about the things your class has wrong with it. The idea of having 4 top dmging classes is pretty stupid.</blockquote>In a game with 24 classes, no it isn't~<div><cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote>There never should have been equal dmg scout & mage counterparts.</blockquote>Agreed, I think they should remove sorcerors from the game.Assassins should be top single target and rangers should be top AE.~~~</div>

Talathion

08-15-2011, 08:55 PM

Best Single Target DPS=Assassin+Wizard

Geothe

08-15-2011, 08:56 PM

<cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote>As I told gaige, yes mostly. Having 4 top dpsing classes is just silly. </blockquote>Back under your bridge, troll.From the start this game was designed having wiz/warlock and assassin/ranger as the top DPSing classes. With fight conditions affecting who is at the top when. Things havent always held up to that intention in the past, but actually the game, as it stands now, has the closest parity in the top DPSing classes that I've ever really seen./shrugs

Talathion

08-15-2011, 08:58 PM

You guys are both in the front seats of the movie theator, but only 1 spot has a cup holder, what do you do?

zorblack

08-15-2011, 08:58 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote>You should be on the assassin board complaining about the things your class has wrong with it. The idea of having 4 top dmging classes is pretty stupid.</blockquote>In a game with 24 classes, no it isn't~<div><cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote>There never should have been equal dmg scout & mage counterparts.</blockquote>Agreed, I think they should remove sorcerors from the game.Assassins should be top single target and rangers should be top AE.~~~</div></blockquote>We disagree from a fundamental part of the game that began 7 years ago. If we accept the classes for the way they are now: Wiz/Assassin = St & Warlock/Ranger for AE.But that still leaves me out on utility which your scout classes have. My suggestion post helps that.

Geothe

08-15-2011, 09:01 PM

<cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote> But that still leaves me out on utility which your scout classes have. My suggestion post helps that.</blockquote>Erm.Sorcs have more utility than Preds. LOL

Talathion

08-15-2011, 09:04 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote> But that still leaves me out on utility which your scout classes have. My suggestion post helps that.</blockquote>Erm.Sorcs have more utility than Preds. LOL</blockquote>I want that assassin hate transfer <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Gaige

08-15-2011, 09:07 PM

<cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote>But that still leaves me out on utility which your scout classes have. My suggestion post helps that.</blockquote>Wizards have more utility than assassins~

Elskidor

08-15-2011, 09:16 PM

<cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sorry I'm way to old school EQ1 to disagree with Sac. Wizards should be single target highest parse. I still hate the existence of warlocks and the two subclass thing. </blockquote>I play Warlock, but I really wouldn't care if they merged nearly every class to what they had in eq1. 24, and soon to be 25, is way too much for these guys to know how to handle. (You've proved it time and time again. You *cencored*.) Now, Wizards were not top DPS of all eq1. We had the Ranger, Rouge, Monk, Magician, and depending on the year and expansion everyone got a nerf or a boost. Wizzies always were very high but not to the point nobody else could compete. If Sorcies and Preds get the top spot then it's to be divided by the subclasses evenly and balanced. If Wizzies or Rangers were the very tip of the DPS tower then nobody would roll an Assassin or Warlock. Heck, if they wanted to merge every single class on the game I wouldn't give a flip as long as it was done right, but Wizzies would always have someone to compete with when it comes to dps. It was not always "Wizzies 4 da win always anyday" on eq1, depending on the expansion and year. Not much has changed as far as the class balancing act in mmos are concerned. Whatever though. Wizzie still going strong, just kinda complaining because the competition has risen. Locks had a longer time of getting the shaft, and weren't nearly as big of drama queens. Sheesh, no wonder why the Troubies get overlooked all the time when you got to listen to this louder dribble drabble from a class that's still doing dang well.

EvilAstroboy

08-15-2011, 09:26 PM

Its pretty obvious from this thread that they should merge predators and sorcerors to make Ninja Wizards.

Elskidor

08-15-2011, 10:09 PM

Congratulations!!!!!!!!!This entire thread is a well thought up troll thread to make sure Wizzies get enough attention to get their wish. Ignore this and direct your attention to the ONLY class that is in dire need of help. The Troub!

SacDaddy420

08-16-2011, 12:55 AM

some funny responses in this thread.I should probably just shut up and open a spire portal, eh.I dont want to nerf anyone. I would like to see two things: a slight percentage boost to sorceror profession spells to compensate for the rediculous amounts of multi attack/flurry preds get. And a Focused Casting buff. Now read the above very slowly, and tell me how I'm "looking to eliminate any competion on the parse".and edit: yes please make people want to play troubs again.

Trensharo

08-16-2011, 01:03 AM

Quote: "And a Focused Casting buff."What? Lol. What buff does Focused Casting need after the buff it recieved last GU?Also, High End Players are not helping themselves when 90% of the parses they post are short < 1 minute burn fights that show them doing ridiculous DPS levels. That's not the same as a longer progression fight. Lots of people who view/post on forums and in many cases don't even raid have a pretty skewed idea of how the classes actually perform comparative to each other on non-Trivial content at that level of raiding.I'm about to betray my Lock back to Wizard because of the Troubador situation, though.

SacDaddy420

08-16-2011, 01:10 AM

it doesnt need anything. But I believe both sorc's should have it.

Trensharo

08-16-2011, 01:13 AM

And both should have mana burn?

SacDaddy420

08-16-2011, 01:15 AM

dude locks already have the single highest damaging ability between both sorcs but I dont even care about that right now and you should detour off whatever road youre heading down atm.

Trensharo

08-16-2011, 01:18 AM

I'm wondering where you're trying to go with this myself...You're just sort of looking selfish and like a whiner atm, and it's hard to take this seriously after the "What is the Point of a Wizard" thread.

zorblack

08-16-2011, 01:18 AM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>And both should have mana burn?</blockquote>Nah, now that casting speed converts to SDA I want Focus Casting back to the old version.

Trensharo

08-16-2011, 01:21 AM

<cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>And both should have mana burn?</blockquote>Nah, now that casting speed converts to SDA I want Focus Casting back to the old version.</blockquote>It really didn't add enough for it to be a factor, IMO. 100% casting speed is what? As much SDA as a jewelry set bonus if even that much?

SacDaddy420

08-16-2011, 01:24 AM

I'm trying to go here:<cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>I dont want to nerf anyone. I would like to see two things: a slight percentage boost to sorceror profession spells to compensate for the rediculous amounts of multi attack/flurry preds get. And a Focused Casting buff.</blockquote>You're trying to play warlocks off of me.

Trensharo

08-16-2011, 01:50 AM

How about less homogenizing. If you think Wizards are deficient suggest something that doesn't equate to taking another class skill and giving it to you while you say "they can't have ours, cause they're in better shape right now."It just looks bad, and it really doesn't make much sense.In any case, I will wait until GU61 is out for a couple weeks before forming a more definitive opinion about class balance. It's useless to discuss on the cusp of such a big update, IMO.

Gaige

08-16-2011, 02:07 AM

<cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would like to see two things: a slight percentage boost to sorceror profession spells to compensate for the rediculous amounts of multi attack/flurry preds get. </blockquote>Funnily enough good wizards can already compete with predators despite the MA/Flurry they can get~

SacDaddy420

08-16-2011, 03:14 AM

maple parses higher than you. You guys dont have a ranger.

theriatis

08-16-2011, 05:16 AM

<cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote>If we accept the classes for the way they are now: Wiz/Assassin = St & Warlock/Ranger for AE.</blockquote>I can agree with that.So, back to GU61 testing...- Concussive Blast should do minor DamageDid i just miss it ? I don't see it do any Damage (as it is now on Live). Otherwise, i don't think thats needed.Never understood the Concept of having a Deaggro with Damage attached to it, better remove the Damagethere and put it somewhere else.- Fireshape / Iceshape now with integrated Frigid Gift / Surge of RoIt's ok, i use it since years macroed, so no change for me here... at least it will work properly every time now,i sometimes had the problem that the second spell didn't fire up. So it's a nice convenience change, nothing more.I would have to look through the Casting Times and Duration to see what has changed also (will do that whenI'm back at home).<cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote>My suggestions for making wizards better.<ol><li>Ice spears should be encounter aoe based.</li><li>Surge of Ro should be group based and the dots should all stack</li><li>Frigid Gift should be Raid AoE</li><li>Converge should have it's hate transfer upped (to give us some utility like an assasin) and the stacking of the spell should be massively improved. This spell stacks with nothing... nothing!</li><li>Hailstorm should be brought in line with plaguebringer dmg.</li><li>Add another illegible target to Fusion so 4 targets</li><li>Spell Reach is a joke. Change it to something that either dmgs or temp ups dmg like focused casting was changed. Or at minimum let it add range to spells like firestorm, fusion, blast of devestation</li></ol></blockquote>Hm, most of the changes you propose here seem to be a bit high up...1. Having Ice Spears be a encounterspell would be nice, but as a wizard, i want to be better on Single Targets.On the other Hand, debuffing the encounter against elemental and then Using Frigid Gift / Iceshape would benefitevery caster in my group (as i am normally running with 3 other casters, typically Lock, Summoner and Illy).2. Would also be nice and also would benefit every other caster in my group.3. Thats a bit to much, i think. It's ok as it is.4. The only problem i have is with the stacking... i can boost it up to 14% (5 AA and Thurgadin Focus Adornment),but the fact that it does not stack or overwrites with other Wizards (or the Warlock Hate Transfer) is not good.5. As i don't have a Warlock, i can just read whats in the Spelldescription in the eq2.wikia.com, so...Plaguebringer does approx 6,5k Damage (according to the Description, i'm aware that it does MUCH more in Reality,but i'll just stick with what is in the Description for now) on a Mob every 52 seconds.Hailstorm can do approx 10k on a single Mob in 47 seconds. If we take 3 Targets (most groups come in 3) we have19,5k every 52 seconds and 12,5k every 47 seconds. If we take 8 Targets (rare !) its 45k against 19,75k.So Hailstorm is good against Single Targets and Plaguebringer is good against Encounters with 2+ Mobs.(and just if my math is not of - as i stated before, it's just the Damage in the Spelldescription, nothing more).A little boost to the Initial Damage of the Hailstorm would be nice, yes, but not by much. Plaguebringer should bea little bit better with 2 Mobs and starting to shine with 3 and more. (So if foresee no change <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)6. Don't think it's needed, but thats just me. Most encounters are 1-3, rarely goes up higher.7. Spell Reach: Don't know if the first proposals are to much... for my taste it would suffice if it not only changed the range but also the radius of the spells (or at least the range of the Cone-AEs like Fusion or Blast of Devastation).The Rest is good to go for GU61.Regards, theriatis.

theriatis

08-16-2011, 05:36 AM

<cite>Elskidor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Congratulations!!!!!!!!!This entire thread is a well thought up troll thread to make sure Wizzies get enough attention to get their wish. Ignore this and direct your attention to the ONLY class that is in dire need of help. The Troub!</blockquote>This isn't a troll thread. At least it didn't start as one. It was made up by others who are constantly derailing the thread and should head back to their own threads.As for the Troub: Oh yes, give him more buffs, more utilitys, more shortbuffs, more survivability, more do-the-group-good-things-Thingies... i'm all with you here. And, just for the Record, this was NOT being sarcastic. I meant what i wrote. A good chunk of my Damage comes from my (well cared, groomed and fed) Troubs in my Raid.(As nearly every Troub in my Raid is a Ratonga, i bought another Storage Room in the Qeynos Inn just for the Cheese.)Regards, theriatis.

Loldawg

08-16-2011, 08:47 AM

Raiding scouts' MA is being nerfed GU61. Wizards already parse higher than them on some fights. Don't see any need on buffing wizards TBH. Plus casters are getting a new autoattack thats uninterruptible. LOL at thinking Troubs need more buffs to make their class fun. FYI, buffs aren't fun, personal DPS is, at least enough to keep them competitive w/ other bards / utility.

theriatis

08-16-2011, 09:25 AM

<cite>Lolkat@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Raiding scouts' MA is being nerfed GU61. Wizards already parse higher than them on some fights. Don't see any need on buffing wizards TBH. Plus casters are getting a new autoattack thats uninterruptible. LOL at thinking Troubs need more buffs to make their class fun. FYI, buffs aren't fun, personal DPS is, at least enough to keep them competitive w/ other bards / utility.</blockquote>Didn't ask for Spell Autoattack. Don't want it. I'm a caster for a reason.Especially if everyone now and his World&Dog says "OMG, you'r so uber now, youre getting Spellautoattack !!!11!!!11".Just scrap it. Thanks.If personal DPS is fun, why rolling a Support Class ?My Troubs always kick me if they're in my Group and i'm doing low DPS... A good Chunk of my DPS is coming fromthe Shortbuffs, Jesters, UT and so on... Those Troubs didn't ask for personal DPS, they enhance the DPS of thewhole Group. Thats what they say, what a Troub is for.But as always, it may be an Opinion of a Minority, as i am not playing a Troub (just benefit from it) i am neither objective nor competent.Regards, theriatis.

Gaige

08-16-2011, 01:37 PM

<cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>maple parses higher than you. You guys dont have a ranger.</blockquote>Maple doesn't parse higher than me, and we do have a ranger. If we'd ever kill Gregodor, I'll prove it~

daray

08-16-2011, 01:41 PM

<cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote>7. Spell Reach: Don't know if the first proposals are to much... for my taste it would suffice if it not only changed the range but also the radius of the spells (or at least the range of the Cone-AEs like Fusion or Blast of Devastation).</blockquote>That's not actually a bad idea for what it otherwise a completely useless expertise ability. As it is now, Spell Reach only has a limited use in PvP.However, for it to affect the range/radius of Fusion and Blast of Devastation, it would probably need to be coded to specifically allow those spells to be modified (i've noticed that nothing else that modifies range/radius actually modifies those two spells).Would also be nice if it modified not just the max range of spells, but also the "tiered range" parts of abilities (e.g. Triple Thunderclap hit up to 16m, double up to 26m), but that is no doubt just wishful thinking.

Loldawg

08-16-2011, 01:41 PM

<cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lolkat@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>If personal DPS is fun, why rolling a Support Class ?</blockquote></blockquote>Your response is naive. If we all had this attitude, there would be far fewer support classes being played. It's already an issue for many guilds. There are a rare individuals that just like being buff bots. The remainder enjoy doing more than one thing at once, helping others do better while contributing their own personal dps.

theriatis

08-16-2011, 01:57 PM

<cite>Lolkat@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lolkat@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>If personal DPS is fun, why rolling a Support Class ?</blockquote></blockquote>Your response is naive. If we all had this attitude, there would be far fewer support classes being played. It's already an issue for many guilds. There are a rare individuals that just like being buff bots. The remainder enjoy doing more than one thing at once, helping others do better while contributing their own personal dps.</blockquote>Ok. Then... how much DPS should a Support Class do ? Where do you see Dirges and Troubs in the Grand Scheme of DPS ?Should it do constant middle-class DPS or lower DPS with big spikes in it ?I remember in SF, UD Wing 1, the Trash moves... one of our Troubs outdpsed me every few minutes (he explained it to mewhy, but i can't remember, it was something like if this is up and this is up and Concerto and this and that... and a massiveAmount of Trash standing there...). No problems with that. Just... the instant he did that, our groupdps dropped, belowthe groupdps which was normally done.So... how much DPS should a Bard do ? 1/3 of a pure DPS Class ? 1/2 ? I don't know the Answer, really. I've been playing one (!) class since EQ2 Beta. Just one. I have some twinks in the 20's, but only one at cap and raiding...If getting a little more personal DPS helps to get more Support classes in game, then, so be it.Regards, theriatis.

Alpharaz

08-16-2011, 03:10 PM

<cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote>If personal DPS is fun, why rolling a Support Class ?</blockquote> one word "Dirge"!!! They got a ton more dps then troubys thanx to their myth buff<cite>Elskidor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Congratulations!!!!!!!!!This entire thread is a well thought up troll thread to make sure Wizzies get enough attention to get their wish. Ignore this and direct your attention to the ONLY class that is in dire need of help. The Troub!</blockquote>i agree exactly wizzies and assasins got a louder voice and more players to get what they want while poor troubys get ignored and they've been needing a boost for a long time. If any class needs a boost on the game right now i think its Troubys turn.

Necroponic

08-16-2011, 04:32 PM

<cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Alpharaz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote> Wizards should be single target highest parse.</blockquote>are you serious? I dont understand why so many wizards think they honestly SHOULD be top dps lol. predators entire role is to do high end melee dps, are you excluding them or do you honestly just think wizards should excel as the god dps class above all others? Thats like SKs being upset they are no longer the top wanted tank anymore.. .. things change constantly warlocks were way under par the begining of DoV and then they got a huge boost with focused casting in GU60 and before long im sure wizards will be given a boost soon that will put the warlocks to shame becuase soe has always made sure to take care of their precious wizards in the past. summoners dps is getting majorly nerfed, MA is getting a cap. and all mages are getting spell auto atk It seems if anyone should not be upset with their dps its sorcerers. It really blows for wizards right now becuase they actually have to try to compete for top dps parse i really feel bad for you guys</blockquote>As I told gaige, yes mostly. Having 4 top dpsing classes is just silly. Scouts should be more versatile, have more survivability and be able to do great dmg from behind and on the move.If the mob is turned and we can all be right on his butt and dps the way we want. Equal skilled players, Equal geared toons the wizard should win ST, warlock should win aoe/encounter.There never should have been equal dmg scout & mage counterparts.</blockquote>there is nothing wrong with having more than one class that can be number one. you wizards are obviously spoiled from having had that number one spot for so long.......QQ more. summoners deserve to be equal too you reguardless of what you claim. our utility is not very good and is no excuse for us to be T2. People like variety, only having 1 or 2 that can be number one is very short sited and boring.

SacDaddy420

08-16-2011, 07:09 PM

I like how you say you like variety then in the next sentence say we should all do the same amount of damage.Roll a sorc if you wanted sorc numbers. Roll a pred if you want rediculous ez mode parsing.

Necroponic

08-16-2011, 07:25 PM

<cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>I like how you say you like variety then in the next sentence say we should all do the same amount of damage.Roll a sorc if you wanted sorc numbers. Roll a pred if you want rediculous ez mode parsing.</blockquote>but I like playing a necro and don't see why you have a problem with more competition for the number one spot. wizard being the absolute number one dpser is boring in a game with so many classes. and I didn't say we all should do the same....obviously true utility classes such as chanters and bards should be T2. but I don't feel that conjy or necro bring enough utility to the table for a dps reduction. and if the assassins want thier cake too let them have it as well don't be selfish.

SacDaddy420

08-16-2011, 07:52 PM

lets get something absolutely straight. I say sorcs need a slight bump in profession spells due to the -enormous- amount of multi attack availible at the top end. I also think we should have a focused casting buff, and see no reason why sorcs cant share that buff.You are the one saying I'm trying to make wizards OMG OP god-like. Am I asking for MB to double attack? AM I asking for Ice Comet on a 4 sec reuse? Do you see anywhere in my thread where I ask for Fusion to have a 100 m eter range and hit 8 targets? Can I not ask for slight tweaks to a class I play well as it is (probably better than anyone you've ever seen)?

Necroponic

08-16-2011, 08:11 PM

<cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>lets get something absolutely straight. I say sorcs need a slight bump in profession spells due to the -enormous- amount of multi attack availible at the top end. I also think we should have a focused casting buff, and see no reason why sorcs cant share that buff.You are the one saying I'm trying to make wizards OMG OP god-like. Am I asking for MB to double attack? AM I asking for Ice Comet on a 4 sec reuse? Do you see anywhere in my thread where I ask for Fusion to have a 100 m eter range and hit 8 targets? Can I not ask for slight tweaks to a class I play well as it is (probably better than anyone you've ever seen)?</blockquote>yes you deserve tweaks for sure <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> the dev's however don't seem to be listening to many classes requests. I would also like to wish you luck in your quest for said tweeks.....as mine for the summoners has had mixed results.

SacDaddy420

08-16-2011, 08:20 PM

well if anyone gets anything out of all this it should be that troubs need a Combat Mastery for spells.

zorblack

08-16-2011, 09:55 PM

<cite>Necroponic wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>I like how you say you like variety then in the next sentence say we should all do the same amount of damage.Roll a sorc if you wanted sorc numbers. Roll a pred if you want rediculous ez mode parsing.</blockquote>but I like playing a necro and don't see why you have a problem with more competition for the number one spot. wizard being the absolute number one dpser is boring in a game with so many classes. and I didn't say we all should do the same....obviously true utility classes such as chanters and bards should be T2. but I don't feel that conjy or necro bring enough utility to the table for a dps reduction. and if the assassins want thier cake too let them have it as well don't be selfish.</blockquote>Grats on liking to play necro... that doesn't mean you should be T1 DPS. Think of the classes as a point system. You get 10 pts and you get to put them in categories. Wizards would be 10 pts in the dmg category. Your necro shouldn't even approach me. Lets see you get an extremely good pet 2pts. You can actually heal players in group 1pt. You can rez 1pt. And more. Why should you be able to do as much dmg as a class who's entire job is to do dmg.

Necroponic

08-16-2011, 10:33 PM

<cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Necroponic wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>I like how you say you like variety then in the next sentence say we should all do the same amount of damage.Roll a sorc if you wanted sorc numbers. Roll a pred if you want rediculous ez mode parsing.</blockquote>but I like playing a necro and don't see why you have a problem with more competition for the number one spot. wizard being the absolute number one dpser is boring in a game with so many classes. and I didn't say we all should do the same....obviously true utility classes such as chanters and bards should be T2. but I don't feel that conjy or necro bring enough utility to the table for a dps reduction. and if the assassins want thier cake too let them have it as well don't be selfish.</blockquote>Grats on liking to play necro... that doesn't mean you should be T1 DPS. Think of the classes as a point system. You get 10 pts and you get to put them in categories. Wizards would be 10 pts in the dmg category. Your necro shouldn't even approach me. Lets see you get an extremely good pet 2pts. You can actually heal players in group 1pt. You can rez 1pt. And more. Why should you be able to do as much dmg as a class who's entire job is to do dmg.</blockquote>1. my res i very poor not ever worth a point since its 48% and has res sickness (in HM's that means hey do you want bigger repair bill guys I cast res on)2. my pet is part of my dmg so your basicly saying i should have less dmg since part of it is from a pet (your dumb). oh and when pet dies it cuts off 35% of my dmg too........you don't have that problem. our pets are nice but are huge pain in the butt for what dmg they actualy add.3. as for my heal......its nothing ground breaking (its main use is for casting after my wimpy resl reses someone in hopes they don't die right after)4. yes my dmg should be equal to yours.....saying it shouldn't even come close makes you sound even more spoiled......QQ more.

Gaige

08-16-2011, 10:53 PM

<cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>lets get something absolutely straight. I say sorcs need a slight bump in profession spells due to the -enormous- amount of multi attack availible at the top end.</blockquote>Which is being capped while potency isn't. So they're nerfing us and boosting you, when good sorcerors can already win.Quit whining~<div><cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>I play well as it is (probably better than anyone you've ever seen)?</blockquote>You don't see Koncept posting in these threads, because he plays wizard better than you.<div><cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Roll a RANGER if you want rediculous ez mode parsing.</blockquote>Assassins are harder to parse on than wizards, kthx.</div></div>

Talathion

08-16-2011, 11:00 PM

if your 10 point system is correct, wizards are putting 1 point in tank (Fighter Damage Reduction+Mitigation Buff+Max Health Buff), 1 point in healer (high regenerating ward) and the rest in damage.Necros put 1 point in healer (lifetaps), and 8 in damage, and 1 for rez. (Necromancers don't have sorc damage reduction.)Why should they be doing less damage then you?

Necroponic

08-16-2011, 11:19 PM

Alenna

08-16-2011, 11:34 PM

<cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote>You should be on the assassin board complaining about the things your class has wrong with it. The idea of having 4 top dmging classes is pretty stupid.</blockquote>In a game with 24 classes, no it isn't~<div><cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote>There never should have been equal dmg scout & mage counterparts.</blockquote>Agreed, I think they should remove sorcerors from the game.Assassins should be top single target and rangers should be top AE.~~~</div></blockquote>We disagree from a fundamental part of the game that began 7 years ago. If we accept the classes for the way they are now: Wiz/Assassin = St & Warlock/Ranger for AE.But that still leaves me out on utility which your scout classes have. My suggestion post helps that.</blockquote>What utility do Rangers have? none.

zorblack

08-17-2011, 12:09 AM

<cite>Necroponic wrote:</cite><blockquote>1. my res i very poor not ever worth a point since its 48% and has res sickness (in HM's that means hey do you want bigger repair bill guys I cast res on)2. my pet is part of my dmg so your basicly saying i should have less dmg since part of it is from a pet (your dumb). oh and when pet dies it cuts off 35% of my dmg too........you don't have that problem. our pets are nice but are huge pain in the butt for what dmg they actualy add.3. as for my heal......its nothing ground breaking (its main use is for casting after my wimpy resl reses someone in hopes they don't die right after)4. yes my dmg should be equal to yours.....saying it shouldn't even come close makes you sound even more spoiled......QQ more.</blockquote>I am so greatful your not a dev. Unfortunately they do listen to retar ds like you.But I have seen the light! We should all do equal dps and equal utility so here are my new suggestions on how to improve wizards based around a necros worthless utility<ol><li>Summon Fire Seeds 3 charges of fire seeds, like dark heart</li><li>Control Elemental charm elementals like control undead</li><li>Feign Death 100% chance</li><li>Add healing component to firestorm like bloodcloud</li><li>Fear</li><li>Velium Solar panel, gathering elemental heat from his surrrounds I get uber mana regen like lich with added heat dmg</li><li>Some of my spells should return some small amount of life, helps with sanguine </li><li>We can add a rez component to Thunderclap called "loud enough to wake the dead" that gives me a chance to rez people</li><li>Instead of knocking down enemies, on termination Ice Comet will now cast a 10m radius heal called icy refreshment</li><li>Protoflame will now be a fully controlable pet with significant dmg components and shared stats and an ability like soulrot</li><li>Protoflame will cast a raid wide buff that gives 3% potency, 3% max mana, weapon hit increased by 5%, reduce resistability by 5%</li><li>All my spells will be full powered from any distance so I can stand at max range and dps</li></ol>

Necroponic

08-17-2011, 12:29 AM

<cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Necroponic wrote:</cite><blockquote>1. my res i very poor not ever worth a point since its 48% and has res sickness (in HM's that means hey do you want bigger repair bill guys I cast res on)2. my pet is part of my dmg so your basicly saying i should have less dmg since part of it is from a pet (your dumb). oh and when pet dies it cuts off 35% of my dmg too........you don't have that problem. our pets are nice but are huge pain in the butt for what dmg they actualy add.3. as for my heal......its nothing ground breaking (its main use is for casting after my wimpy resl reses someone in hopes they don't die right after)4. yes my dmg should be equal to yours.....saying it shouldn't even come close makes you sound even more spoiled......QQ more.</blockquote>I am so greatful your not a dev. Unfortunately they do listen to retar ds like you.But I have seen the light! We should all do equal dps and equal utility so here are my new suggestions on how to improve wizards based around a necros worthless utility<ol><li>Summon Fire Seeds 3 charges of fire seeds, like dark heart</li><li>Control Elemental charm elementals like control undead</li><li>Feign Death 100% chance</li><li>Add healing component to firestorm like bloodcloud</li><li>Fear</li><li>Velium Solar panel, gathering elemental heat from his surrrounds I get uber mana regen like lich with added heat dmg</li><li>Some of my spells should return some small amount of life, helps with sanguine </li><li>We can add a rez component to Thunderclap called "loud enough to wake the dead" that gives me a chance to rez people</li><li>Instead of knocking down enemies, on termination Ice Comet will now cast a 10m radius heal called icy refreshment</li><li>Protoflame will now be a fully controlable pet with significant dmg components and shared stats and an ability like soulrot</li><li>Protoflame will cast a raid wide buff that gives 3% potency, 3% max mana, weapon hit increased by 5%, reduce resistability by 5%</li><li>All my spells will be full powered from any distance so I can stand at max range and dps</li></ol></blockquote>sounds good to me........one thing about point number 12 though, I don't cast from max range since I have to be closer to cast pandemic. and with the adition of detonate necro will now have to be practicly huging the mob to get any dmg addition from it other than aoe fight.1. dark hearts are rather weak, lol if you want those.2. fd, doesn't wipe agro btw.....good for soloing or laying on the floor waiting for agro to go down.......(i have no probs with any mage having it though)3. fear......umm wizard stuns and roots are better than a necro's why do you need fear on top of that (but I could care less I'd say pvp necros have more of a prob with that)4. I like your thunder clap res idea.....saves me from having to waste my dps to res someone.5. I'm glad your not a dev either!

Trensharo

08-17-2011, 12:44 AM

<cite>Necroponic wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Necroponic wrote:</cite><blockquote>1. my res i very poor not ever worth a point since its 48% and has res sickness (in HM's that means hey do you want bigger repair bill guys I cast res on)2. my pet is part of my dmg so your basicly saying i should have less dmg since part of it is from a pet (your dumb). oh and when pet dies it cuts off 35% of my dmg too........you don't have that problem. our pets are nice but are huge pain in the butt for what dmg they actualy add.3. as for my heal......its nothing ground breaking (its main use is for casting after my wimpy resl reses someone in hopes they don't die right after)4. yes my dmg should be equal to yours.....saying it shouldn't even come close makes you sound even more spoiled......QQ more.</blockquote>I am so greatful your not a dev. Unfortunately they do listen to retar ds like you.But I have seen the light! We should all do equal dps and equal utility so here are my new suggestions on how to improve wizards based around a necros worthless utility<ol><li>Summon Fire Seeds 3 charges of fire seeds, like dark heart</li><li>Control Elemental charm elementals like control undead</li><li>Feign Death 100% chance</li><li>Add healing component to firestorm like bloodcloud</li><li>Fear</li><li>Velium Solar panel, gathering elemental heat from his surrrounds I get uber mana regen like lich with added heat dmg</li><li>Some of my spells should return some small amount of life, helps with sanguine </li><li>We can add a rez component to Thunderclap called "loud enough to wake the dead" that gives me a chance to rez people</li><li>Instead of knocking down enemies, on termination Ice Comet will now cast a 10m radius heal called icy refreshment</li><li>Protoflame will now be a fully controlable pet with significant dmg components and shared stats and an ability like soulrot</li><li>Protoflame will cast a raid wide buff that gives 3% potency, 3% max mana, weapon hit increased by 5%, reduce resistability by 5%</li><li>All my spells will be full powered from any distance so I can stand at max range and dps</li></ol></blockquote>sounds good to me........one thing about point number 12 though, I don't cast from max range since I have to be closer to cast pandemic. and with the adition of detonate necro will now have to be practicly huging the mob to get any dmg addition from it other than aoe fight.1. dark hearts are rather weak, lol if you want those.2. fd, doesn't wipe agro btw.....good for soloing or laying on the floor waiting for agro to go down.......(i have no probs with any mage having it though)3. fear......umm wizard stuns and roots are better than a necro's why do you need fear on top of that (but I could care less I'd say pvp necros have more of a prob with that)4. I like your thunder clap res idea.....saves me from having to waste my dps to res someone.</blockquote>You're being trolled. Why feed him?

Davngr1

08-17-2011, 02:11 AM

<cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Necroponic wrote:</cite><blockquote>1. my res i very poor not ever worth a point since its 48% and has res sickness (in HM's that means hey do you want bigger repair bill guys I cast res on)2. my pet is part of my dmg so your basicly saying i should have less dmg since part of it is from a pet (your dumb). oh and when pet dies it cuts off 35% of my dmg too........you don't have that problem. our pets are nice but are huge pain in the butt for what dmg they actualy add.3. as for my heal......its nothing ground breaking (its main use is for casting after my wimpy resl reses someone in hopes they don't die right after)4. yes my dmg should be equal to yours.....saying it shouldn't even come close makes you sound even more spoiled......QQ more.</blockquote>I am so greatful your not a dev. Unfortunately they do listen to retar ds like you.But I have seen the light! We should all do equal dps and equal utility so here are my new suggestions on how to improve wizards based around a necros worthless utility<ol><li>Summon Fire Seeds 3 charges of fire seeds, like dark heart</li><li>Control Elemental charm elementals like control undead</li><li>Feign Death 100% chance</li><li>Add healing component to firestorm like bloodcloud</li><li>Fear</li><li>Velium Solar panel, gathering elemental heat from his surrrounds I get uber mana regen like lich with added heat dmg</li><li>Some of my spells should return some small amount of life, helps with sanguine </li><li>We can add a rez component to Thunderclap called "loud enough to wake the dead" that gives me a chance to rez people</li><li>Instead of knocking down enemies, on termination Ice Comet will now cast a 10m radius heal called icy refreshment</li><li>Protoflame will now be a fully controlable pet with significant dmg components and shared stats and an ability like soulrot</li><li>Protoflame will cast a raid wide buff that gives 3% potency, 3% max mana, weapon hit increased by 5%, reduce resistability by 5%</li><li>All my spells will be full powered from any distance so I can stand at max range and dps</li></ol></blockquote> awsome and i guess my necro will get: 1. a mez that i can use to freeze mobs in their spot added it to his weak stun. we can call it "if looks could kill"2. a better group proc that parses much higher then ET. we can call it "phone home"3. can increase the damage of lifetap by like.. 10000000000.37% and we can now call it "lifesover"4. would love to have the encounter slow, great for BG's can't wait!5. encounter root is going to be great to have too! no more problems with encounter adds going wild! we can call it "quick & easy soloing"6. can get the group and solo evac. can call it "better than FD"7. can get a power feed. can call it "here's more power now when you need it not some useless heart"8. can get ports. call them "better then charm the dead"9. an AA that makes casting lifeburn a non-issue as it will give him back all his HP instantly along with him potency! call it "lol who need's a healer"10. i'm not going to post evrything because i'll be here all night so lets just give my necro another 10 damage spells that do tons of damage. can call it "now i'm T1 dps but i'll still QQ all day" necro is going to stay T2, i know this because i battled with ***** like this guy for years and SOE devs never so much as said a peep. just be glad you guys started playing necro in the last few expansions if you had experience the necro of DOF,KOS and EOF and then had to raid through ROK then you really would know what it's like, to have the blues. focus casting/PB change was huge, locks were a bit behind on single target stuff but not that far behind. wiz should get something as well imo.

Elskidor

08-17-2011, 02:39 AM

Wizzies always get something so quit complaing. Oh no, you no longer have to be a great lock to compete with a cruddy wizard. Imagine that. Seems like it's actually balanced for those two, so please stop the Lock and Wizard comparison complaints. If Wizzies got focus casting then they would be waaay overpowered and there would be no reason to roll a lock. If you want focus casting to be a shared abiltity then hand over a few of your fun high spells and your myth buff.

zorblack

08-17-2011, 03:17 AM

At least we can agree that all the classes will be rolled into one called beastlord soon. Then we can hold 24 beastlord raids and be done with the class strife.

theriatis

08-17-2011, 04:07 AM

Hi,if i would be granted just one wish... (yeah, sounds like the Thread in the Live Forum)...For every Class there would be an own thread where they post problems and suggestions...and no other class posting in this thread is allowed; it would not spiral out of control andthe whining, derailing and trolling would stop and the testing could continue.Yeah, i know, but i can dream, right ?If i was not so sick and tired, i would go off now (to see the Wizard !) to troll and derail every other class thread...i mean, must be fun, because so much other classes are doing it !Regards, theriatis.

Alpharaz

08-17-2011, 10:49 AM

<cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi,if i would be granted just one wish... (yeah, sounds like the Thread in the Live Forum)...For every Class there would be an own thread where they post problems and suggestions...and no other class posting in this thread is allowed; it would not spiral out of control andthe whining, derailing and trolling would stop and the testing could continue.Yeah, i know, but i can dream, right ?If i was not so sick and tired, i would go off now (to see the Wizard !) to troll and derail every other class thread...i mean, must be fun, because so much other classes are doing it !Regards, theriatis.</blockquote>Go check out the troub thread! there is not one person that disagrees a troubador needs a boost. Gee i wonder why so many people post on this thread in disagreement. You only say others have came here to troll becuase you don't like what they have to say. Maybe you should consider other classes posting on this thread is a serious suggestion there would be a major class imbalancement if wizzy was to get another boost.<cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>lets get something absolutely straight. I say sorcs need a slight bump in profession spells due to the -enormous- amount of multi attack availible at the top end. I also think we should have a focused casting buff, and see no reason why sorcs cant share that buff.</blockquote>If all wizzy is asking for is to share focused casting why should anyone disagree with that hmm.. Maybe becuase your asking to have one of the warlocks abilities yet would offer nothing the wizard has of great use to the warlock, because if a wizzy had 10 secs of 100% sma they really would be way too overpowered. The dps classes are more balanced then they have been in a long time and you just want to be on top again.... without much competition at that. Besides if you want to fix the imbalancement of the sorcs can't you think of something a little more creative than just taking an ability the warlock has?

zorblack

08-17-2011, 01:43 PM

<cite>Alpharaz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>theriatis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi,if i would be granted just one wish... (yeah, sounds like the Thread in the Live Forum)...For every Class there would be an own thread where they post problems and suggestions...and no other class posting in this thread is allowed; it would not spiral out of control andthe whining, derailing and trolling would stop and the testing could continue.Yeah, i know, but i can dream, right ?If i was not so sick and tired, i would go off now (to see the Wizard !) to troll and derail every other class thread...i mean, must be fun, because so much other classes are doing it !Regards, theriatis.</blockquote>Go check out the troub thread! there is not one person that disagrees a troubador needs a boost. Gee i wonder why so many people post on this thread in disagreement. You only say others have came here to troll becuase you don't like what they have to say. Maybe you should consider other classes posting on this thread is a serious suggestion there would be a major class imbalancement if wizzy was to get another boost.<cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>lets get something absolutely straight. I say sorcs need a slight bump in profession spells due to the -enormous- amount of multi attack availible at the top end. I also think we should have a focused casting buff, and see no reason why sorcs cant share that buff.</blockquote>If all wizzy is asking for is to share focused casting why should anyone disagree with that hmm.. Maybe becuase your asking to have one of the warlocks abilities yet would offer nothing the wizard has of great use to the warlock, because if a wizzy had 10 secs of 100% sma they really would be way too overpowered. The dps classes are more balanced then they have been in a long time and you just want to be on top again.... without much competition at that. Besides if you want to fix the imbalancement of the sorcs can't you think of something a little more creative than just taking an ability the warlock has?</blockquote>Nah I don't want focus casting. I want manaburn to crit.

Davngr1

08-17-2011, 01:51 PM

i agree mana burn and lifeburn should both crit again or should at the least return to a 5:1 ratio.

DxPreist1

08-17-2011, 01:53 PM

Trade you CoTH for Spire ports any day, you tell me which is more useful AFTERwards....

zorblack

08-17-2011, 02:07 PM

<cite>DxPreist1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Trade you CoTH for Spire ports any day, you tell me which is more useful AFTERwards....</blockquote>To be honest I would rather have CoTH. I have used my port spell literally no more then 50 times. I think i've only ever been asked to open it twice. Everbody I know calls to guild hall and takes wiz, druid, bell.

Ge'Sar

08-17-2011, 02:31 PM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>How about less homogenizing. If you think Wizards are deficient suggest something that doesn't equate to taking another class skill and giving it to you while you say "they can't have ours, cause they're in better shape right now."It just looks bad, and it really doesn't make much sense.In any case, I will wait until GU61 is out for a couple weeks before forming a more definitive opinion about class balance. It's useless to discuss on the cusp of such a big update, IMO.</blockquote>I disagree, the time to ask for changes is when they are making changes and things are under review.. not after. Though I do agree saying give us the warlock buff to is kinda meh. I think we can come up with more interesting ideas.I detest this stupid spell auto attack anyway, but it will be the only way the simple minds at SOE can balance mage/scouts. I'm so happy to watch my wizard be turned into a scout clone after years of playing it fills me full of joy! Jousting, range issues, and now I'll have my dps split by this garbage too! It's just so awesome! I mean isn't that what you picture when you think wizard, autoattacking running back and forth? Totally fits the lore... I can't wait till they make our auto attack and spells back dependant! That's what, gu 63?

Ge'Sar

08-17-2011, 02:31 PM

<cite>Nevao wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Wizards in the two best US and Russian guilds don't feel the need to spew this all over both sets of forums. They just do what needs to be done to compete.</blockquote>Ya but that's cause in at least one of those guilds, their assasin isn't very good. Just geared. *waves to gaige*Ya, I found this thread a few days late.. all the fun is probably gone out of it already!

Ge'Sar

08-17-2011, 02:32 PM

<cite>daray wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wizards aren't excessively far behind atm. As someone in this thread said, balance between the top 4 dps classes is actually closer than it has been in a while, but it is always going to be tough balancing classes equally under all scenarios, under all raid-setups, and under all buff distributions (e.g. just look at the relative differences of a warlock with/without UT; compared to a wizard with/without TC).However, one thing which could / should be looked at is the wizard expertise / endlines under the wizard tree (while the devs are actually busy revising this tree and other classes' expertise abilities) - especially now that there are no "line" or "point-sink" requirements for any of the classes to get these expertise abilities.Fireshape and IceshapeThese either need something added to them to bring them up to endline quality,or, merged up into the Enhance: Frigid Gift / Enhance: Surge of Ro (on the 4th row) as a "Rank 5" additional enhancement and then 2 new expertise abilities added in their place.The first option would probably be the easiest, and in the case of Iceshape, it could be utilised to offer an additional group benefit (since it is modifying a group temp buff).</blockquote>This I can get behind, they are pretty lackluster now.

Ge'Sar

08-17-2011, 02:32 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would like to see two things: a slight percentage boost to sorceror profession spells to compensate for the rediculous amounts of multi attack/flurry preds get. </blockquote>Funnily enough good wizards can already compete with predators despite the MA/Flurry they can get~</blockquote>Only because you limit what wizards are allowed to count as competeing, all the parses where assasins are destroying by up to 100k at times, they just don't count. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Oh and you're bad or something.

Gaige

08-17-2011, 02:33 PM

<cite>GeSar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ya but that's cause in at least one of those guilds, their assasin isn't very good. Just geared. *waves to gaige*Ya, I found this thread a few days late.. all the fun is probably gone out of it already!</blockquote>Koncept posts higher parses than Sacdaddy yet I beat Koncept. So if I'm bad...<div><cite>GeSar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Only because you limit what wizards are allowed to count as competeing, all the parses where assasins are destroying by up to 100k at times, they just don't count. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> Oh and you're bad or something.</blockquote>Yup, you caught me, I lose by 100k ALL the time~</div>

Ge'Sar

08-17-2011, 02:39 PM

<blockquote><cite>zorblack wrote:</cite><blockquote>My suggestions for making wizards better.<ol><li>Ice spears should be encounter aoe based.</li><li>Surge of Ro should be group based and the dots should all stack</li><li>Frigid Gift should be Raid AoE</li><li>Converge should have it's hate transfer upped (to give us some utility like an assasin) and the stacking of the spell should be massively improved. This spell stacks with nothing... nothing!</li><li>Hailstorm should be brought in line with plaguebringer dmg.</li><li>Add another illegible target to Fusion so 4 targets</li><li>Spell Reach is a joke. Change it to something that either dmgs or temp ups dmg like focused casting was changed. Or at minimum let it add range to spells like firestorm, fusion, blast of devestation</li></ol></blockquote>1. Meh, marginal help at best. and aoe based solutions are not helping us be the best ST2. sure, but doesn't help MY dps!3. that would make this OP imo4. mostly agree5. I don't think we should take EVERY ability the warlock has and make ours better, let them own this one.6. No, that makes us more aoe, not less. I'd actually like to see an if/then statement. If Fusion hits only one target it's damage is increased by 1.5 to 2 x7. AGreed, just ditch this ability.</blockquote>

zorblack

08-17-2011, 02:43 PM

<cite>GeSar wrote:</cite><blockquote>No, that makes us more aoe, not less. I'd actually like to see an if/then statement. If Fusion hits only one target it's damage is increased by 1.5 to 2 x</blockquote>I like that one a lot better. That sir is why your a genius.

Ge'Sar

08-17-2011, 02:44 PM

Ge'Sar

08-17-2011, 02:47 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>lets get something absolutely straight. I say sorcs need a slight bump in profession spells due to the -enormous- amount of multi attack availible at the top end.</blockquote>Which is being capped while potency isn't. So they're nerfing us and boosting you, when good sorcerors can already win.Quit whining~<div><cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>I play well as it is (probably better than anyone you've ever seen)?</blockquote>You don't see Koncept posting in these threads, because he plays wizard better than you.<div><cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Roll a RANGER if you want rediculous ez mode parsing.</blockquote>Assassins are harder to parse on than wizards, kthx.</div></div></blockquote>1. We're not boosted (unless spell auto is WAY more powerful than I've been lead to believe) , and the moved to the cap to where you are, so you're not getting nerfed. Your growth in that direction is capped though sure.2. Or cause he competes against a bad assasin (Gaige trolls fill me with joy).3. Nut uh!!!

Gaige

08-17-2011, 02:50 PM

1. I'm at 680% MA in raids, cap is 600% so I am nerfed. I'm sorry you struggle with math. Getting additional free DPS and then claiming you're not boosted is pretty funny. You'll get a free 5k from auto, more procs, more from disruption, etc etc etc. Melees get... nerfed. Go figure.2. As I said. Koncept parses more than you and Sac and I parse more than him. So if I'm bad, what are you two?3. I have both. I've raided on both. Wizards are ezmode~

Ge'Sar

08-17-2011, 03:02 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>1. I'm at 680% MA in raids, cap is 600% so I am nerfed. I'm sorry you struggle with math. Getting additional free DPS and then claiming you're not boosted is pretty funny. You'll get a free 5k from auto, more procs, more from disruption, etc etc etc. Melees get... nerfed. Go figure.2. As I said. Koncept parses more than you and Sac and I parse more than him. So if I'm bad, what are you two?3. I have both. I've raided on both. Wizards are ezmode~</blockquote>1. I swear every time I read a post your MA goes up another 80%. I thought you were claiming 5XX the other day when these curves were first posted. I don't really see 5k dps as a 'boost' when you're talking about 250 - 400k parses. It's less than most procs. It's like making a thread omg, they have a wrist with a proc, I want a wrist with a proc. Now if it ends up adding 20 to 30k with everything else factored in, and I suspect next expansion a boatload of stupid autoattack gear for mages, I'd agree. Discussion of degrees I guess, sure 5k is more, but.. meh.. really? that's worth fighting about?2. Less geared and in a heal the mob to death guild? (at least for me) Wait, I haven't posted a parse in like 16 years, are you snooping! You little stalker you! *winks seductively*3. But now I need to joust in, and get yelled at by my inquisitor when an aoe *censored* me up the *censored*! Have you raided since they gave us all these accursed and vile must be in abilities? (though, thank the stars I don't have to time autoattacks, I tried it for like three raids since I was in anyway, then said forget this!)omg censored - why aren't we on flames?

Gaige

08-17-2011, 03:08 PM

1. Weird, I keep getting upgrades~ Sure, I was claiming a little over 500% SOLO which is now 511% solo no procs. Considering that when this first was announced I had already posted a 648% MA in raids is 680% now that hard to believe?

Ge'Sar

08-17-2011, 03:11 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>1. Weird, I keep getting upgrades~ Sure, I was claiming a little over 500% SOLO which is now 511% solo no procs. Considering that when this first was announced I had already posted a 648% MA in raids is 680% now that hard to believe?</blockquote>You should probably stop getting upgrades then.Just saying.Then my info would never be out of date, and it's all about me. Cause I'm a wizard.Oh ya, get the *censored* out of every stinking wizard thread that comes along.

Gaige

08-17-2011, 03:15 PM

I have a 90/90/300/450 wizard in DoV raid gear. This thread is relative to my interests.

Ge'Sar

08-17-2011, 03:20 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have a 90/90/300/450 wizard in DoV raid gear. This thread is relative to my interests.</blockquote>Pllltttth, you hate the wizards admit it! Why must you hate!

SacDaddy420

08-17-2011, 03:23 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>2. As I said. Koncept parses more than you and Sac and I parse more than him. </blockquote> thanks for just proving my point. I believe your stance is "everyones more balanced then ever right now" so how does this statement make sense?

Necroponic

08-17-2011, 03:24 PM

I don't think Gaige hates wizards. He hates calss imbalance and also feels there should be more than one class at the top. nothing wrong with that!are wizards even getting a nerf?

SacDaddy420

08-17-2011, 03:26 PM

oh and family guild warlocks that dont realize that PB is 2x - 3x more damage than any other sorc spell can just leave now. FC should be a shared sorc temp.

SacDaddy420

08-17-2011, 03:32 PM

<cite>Necroponic wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't think Gaige hates wizards. He hates calss imbalance and also feels there should be more than one class at the top. nothing wrong with that!</blockquote>I feel the same way. Just like when the pendulum swings away from melee and back towards casters, I'll be around proclaiming that everything is "balanced" too...

Ge'Sar

08-17-2011, 03:40 PM

<cite>Necroponic wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't think Gaige hates wizards. He hates calss imbalance and also feels there should be more than one class at the top. nothing wrong with that!are wizards even getting a nerf?</blockquote>Well that's where Gaige and I at least disagree, he has a very closed defination of what is allowed to be considered in balance. He excludes a great many fights where wizards don't touch him as irrelevant.We are balance in some scenerio's, not enough imo.

SacDaddy420

08-17-2011, 03:47 PM

we are balanced against predators in ae fights. No one touches me there, but thats only because we dont have a lock atm. Thats what balanced means right? Silly me, I thought wizards were single target nukers....

Necroponic

08-17-2011, 03:58 PM

so about those tweeks you asked for Sac<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>Between the massive item revamp, the addition of spell auto-attack as well as the over cap conversions and the AA revamp, we haven't had much time for class tweaks this GU. I look forward to working on the Troubador class as soon as we get some time to spare, and hopefully we'll be able to come up with something cooler than an overpowered mythical effect. <img src="../images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>yeah I know.....I hate them too

Davngr1

08-17-2011, 04:00 PM

<cite>Sacdaddicus@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>we are balanced against predators in ae fights. No one touches me there, but thats only because we dont have a lock atm. Thats what balanced means right? Silly me, I thought wizards were single target nukers....</blockquote> i can hear the QQ now if you guys ever recruit a warlock lol

SacDaddy420

08-17-2011, 04:05 PM

oh you know me...

Venser

08-17-2011, 04:14 PM

i lol'd

Korhallen3

08-17-2011, 04:32 PM

This thread reminds me of back before the great purge of EQ2Flames fame, when Dissolution used to circle-jerk each other in every thread in the Dungeons and Raids section of the forums.

daray

08-17-2011, 04:34 PM

People are missing the point. Slapping Focused Casting onto wizards, or giving them a passive 20%+ SDA is not a solution (do people even realize how imbalancing these would be?).It has been said before. but if anything, you should just be looking at tweaks here and there, primarily to three our existing expertise abilities:Iceshape: Addition of some group benefit.Fireshape: Addition of some solo benefit.Spell Reach: Allow it to affect fusion / blast of devastation / firestorm / static discharge radius, and also allow it to increase the distance tiers of an enhanced Thunderclap (triple hit up to 16m, double hit up to 26m).And the reason these expertise abilities should be looked at is because SOE have removed any of the original "point-sink" requirements to get expertise abilities for all classes (and lets face it, while other classes may have had better endlines, many of the points had to be invested in much more worthless junk to unlock them).

Ge'Sar

08-17-2011, 05:29 PM

<cite>daray wrote:</cite><blockquote>People are missing the point. Slapping Focused Casting onto wizards, or giving them a passive 20%+ SDA is not a solution (do people even realize how imbalancing these would be?).It has been said before. but if anything, you should just be looking at tweaks here and there, primarily to three our existing expertise abilities:Iceshape: Addition of some group benefit.Fireshape: Addition of some solo benefit.Spell Reach: Allow it to affect fusion / blast of devastation / firestorm / static discharge radius, and also allow it to increase the distance tiers of an enhanced Thunderclap (triple hit up to 16m, double hit up to 26m).And the reason these expertise abilities should be looked at is because SOE have removed any of the original "point-sink" requirements to get expertise abilities for all classes (and lets face it, while other classes may have had better endlines, many of the points had to be invested in much more worthless junk to unlock them).</blockquote>Would really like to see the last two done, those two are basically not worth getting right now. The spell reach on thunderclap would make it very tempting.

SacDaddy420

08-17-2011, 05:38 PM

Hellcatt

08-17-2011, 06:02 PM