Shaman Pet - Missed in the shared stat revamp? [Archive]

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EvilAstroboy

08-12-2011, 11:04 PM

I love my Mystic, however one thing has been bugging me about it and noone else seems to have mentioned it. It seems our pet was missed during the shared stat revamp for pets. Our pet still relies on Strength as its primary attribute, and doesnt seem to share all stats such as multi-attack.I noticed that my pets DPS wasnt scaling well with my own stat increases. So I did a few tests with my pet soloing a training dummy to determine where the issue was. The only buffs that I changed around during these tests were Battle Prowess, Sacred Follower and Spirit of the Mammoth:<img src="http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n599/evilastro/EQ2/Buffs.jpg" />The first parse I collected was in my usual Battle Prowess buff with the Spirit of the Mammoth buff on:<img src="http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n599/evilastro/EQ2/PetDPS-BuffsandMelleeBuff.jpg" width="883" height="449" />Then I took Battle Prowess off and put on Sacred Follower which adds Strength, Agility, DPS and hit rating to the pet with the following result:<img src="http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n599/evilastro/EQ2/DPS-BuffsandDogBuff.jpg" />To make sure that it was the Strength stat impacting on the pet and not the other stats, I took off Spirit of the Mammoth - which buffs Strength and Stamina - and got the following results:<img src="http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n599/evilastro/EQ2/PetDPS-NoBuffandDogBuff.jpg" />I took the above tests about 15 times each to make sure it wasnt influnced by miss rates or anything, but the tests were all representative and within 100dps of one another. I think our pets damage rating should be based on our Wisdom stat just like Mage pets are influenced by their Intelligence so that our damage scales appropriately based on our own gear and not limited to the Strength buffs of the group.Another issue is that our end line ability in the Combat AA line in the Mystic tree buffs the pets crushing stat...<img src="http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n599/evilastro/EQ2/WeaponMastery.jpg" width="318" height="182" />When its pretty obvious from the above parses that the pet actually does piercing damage. This can result in low hit rates for the pet when there is no Dirge in the group. This is a bit of an issue as the pet has a large AA investment for abilities which proc when it hits. This should be changed to increase the accuracy of the pet for piercing damage, perhaps even consolidate Sacred Follower into this ability as that buff is never used by any priest.Additionally the pet doesnt seem to be fully sharing my multi attack stat. In the tests I had 110% static multi-attack and the pet was doing closer to 10% MA during the tests as can be seen below:<img src="http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n599/evilastro/EQ2/PetAutoattack.jpg" />Based on the current working of multi-attack and shared stats my pet should be double attacking on every hit with a 10% chance to triple attack, but this was not the case.Could we please get these issues looked at so that our pet scales with our own gear like all the other classes? Thanks.

Amanathia

08-14-2011, 04:19 PM

+1 for an epicly well thought out and supported post. Good catch on the crushing damage thing.

Xalmat

08-14-2011, 04:29 PM

If the dog shared stats is the same as summoner pets, then it doesn't inherit stat boosts from buffs (unless the buff is ALSO placed on the pet), or any of the melee attack stats from items (multi attack, DPS, haste, flurry, etc). Also the stat that should determine your pet's base damage is your WIS.

Ratman12345

08-14-2011, 04:32 PM

Same, very very good post, this is something we need to get fixed, our pet should be based off wisdom for sure.Now the DPS mod might be the factor in the higher dps, along with the strenght btw, since it directly effects the auto attack damage. But i really don't think 30 DPS mod is going to impact the parse that much either.As for multi attack, i can't say i notice DogDog attacking to much due to my low haste so he's attacking mega slow.But again very good post, and lets hope a red pops in on this, be very nice to get our dogdog fixed up.

Talathion

08-14-2011, 04:43 PM

Dog Dog Should Multi attack and his strength should instead be wisdom, IMO.

Xalmat

08-14-2011, 04:45 PM

<cite>Zooky@Unrest_old wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now the DPS mod might be the factor in the higher dps, along with the strenght btw, since it directly effects the auto attack damage. But i really don't think 30 DPS mod is going to impact the parse that much either.</blockquote>If it behaves the same as Summoner pets, then the pet ignores its own stats altogether (STR, AGI, WIS, INT), and instead relies on your base WIS to determine its base damage.A Shaman should test this.

Talathion

08-14-2011, 04:50 PM

<cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zooky@Unrest_old wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now the DPS mod might be the factor in the higher dps, along with the strenght btw, since it directly effects the auto attack damage. But i really don't think 30 DPS mod is going to impact the parse that much either.</blockquote>If it behaves the same as Summoner pets, then the pet ignores its own stats altogether (STR, AGI, WIS, INT), and instead relies on your base WIS to determine its base damage.A Shaman should test this.</blockquote>it doesn't really :/ it hits for cra*, also I wish the defiler pet was a ghost, and the mystic pet looked like the defilers pet with fury activated.

Nebbeny

08-14-2011, 07:23 PM

<cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zooky@Unrest_old wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now the DPS mod might be the factor in the higher dps, along with the strenght btw, since it directly effects the auto attack damage. But i really don't think 30 DPS mod is going to impact the parse that much either.</blockquote>If it behaves the same as Summoner pets, then the pet ignores its own stats altogether (STR, AGI, WIS, INT), and instead relies on your base WIS to determine its base damage.A Shaman should test this.</blockquote>He has tested it, the difference between the third one and the second one is that on the third one he took off a group str/sta buff, and the pet did less damage. Shows pretty clearly that str is affecting the pet instead of wisdom

LardLord

08-14-2011, 07:37 PM

At least on raids, Mystics already do by far the highest priest DPS, in large part because they have pets. The dog was not completely missed in the revamp, but apparently they decided to keep it working off STR. It gets your crit chance, crit bonus, ect. It's possible the pet is using its crushing skill even while doing piercing damage, but I guess we have no way of knowing for sure. No pets share multi-attack.

Faeward

08-15-2011, 06:33 AM

Only spell multi attack is shared it seems.

Banditman

08-15-2011, 09:56 AM

Those sample sizes in the first post are also pretty small. I'm not saying there isn't some sort of problem, but less than 20 hits is not nearly enough sample size.

Geothe

08-15-2011, 11:17 AM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Those sample sizes in the first post are also pretty small. I'm not saying there isn't some sort of problem, but less than 20 hits is not nearly enough sample size.</blockquote>Read his text:"I took the above tests about 15 times each to make sure it wasnt influnced by miss rates or anything, but the tests were all representative and within 100dps of one another"So actual sample size is around 200 hits with each.

Gaealiege

08-15-2011, 11:27 AM

This has been an issue for months and I've bug reported it several times. I also made a post on the live forums about how the dog will randomly decide to stop attacking a mob. I don't foresee them fixing this whatsoever. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />

NardacMM

08-15-2011, 12:05 PM

Definitely agree it should be updated. the pet DPS is sad.Great post.

EvilAstroboy

08-15-2011, 08:46 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Those sample sizes in the first post are also pretty small. I'm not saying there isn't some sort of problem, but less than 20 hits is not nearly enough sample size.</blockquote>I replicated the tests a number of times, and the results were always about the same. I was going to use a Epic dummy but due to the issue I mentioned with his hit rates, it was hard to get a representative number with minimal misses.Its fairly obvious that the pet is still flagged as a fighter and uses Strength. Even the Sacred Follower buff acknowledges that because it boosts the pets Stamina and Strength. If it wasnt the case then the buff would increase the pets Wisdom instead. Not to mention that Shadowknights can still use the pet to drain mitigation from (a skill which requires another fighter).I'm not asking for a massive boost in DPS, I just think that the pet should scale with your own gear so that its a linear progression like other classes, rather than being reliant on other classes buffs.

EvilAstroboy

08-16-2011, 11:19 AM

<cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote>If the dog shared stats is the same as summoner pets, then it doesn't inherit stat boosts from buffs (unless the buff is ALSO placed on the pet), or any of the melee attack stats from items (multi attack, DPS, haste, flurry, etc). Also the stat that should determine your pet's base damage is your WIS.</blockquote>Ah ok, I thought it shared multi-attack like it shares crit chance. Shame it doesnt inherit melee stats like MA since mage ones share SDA.Its base damage definitely does not use WIS. You can see from the above tests that taking off a STR and STA buff lowered its DPS. It is definitely still using STR as its primary attribute, which Shaman now have very little of due to the stat changes.

EvilAstroboy

08-17-2011, 05:53 AM

Would be nice to get a response, even if it is just 'working as intended'.

TigerLotus

08-17-2011, 06:26 AM

I am not missing the "more dps" from dogdog.But after the "shared stats" were introduced, theward-proccs from dogdog were the same like before.From my point of view the shared stats didn't improvethe gameplay for shamans in their leading role.

Zural

08-17-2011, 12:47 PM

Not to rain on the parade, but here is the dov update notes:Pet Stat SharingControllable Pets, including Possess Essence and Charm, will now share the following of their owner’s stats at a 1:1 ratio:<ul type="disc"><li>Attributes </li><li>Ability Modifier </li><li>Potency </li><li>Crit Bonus </li><li>Crit Chance </li><li>Toughness </li><li>Spell Double Attack </li><li>Ability Casting Speed </li><li>Ability Recovery Speed </li><li>Spell Reuse Speed </li><li>Ability Reuse Speed </li><li>Critical Mitigation </li></ul>Due to this change, most pet effects have been removed from items.Multi attack is not a shared stat, sorry.

EvilAstroboy

08-17-2011, 01:01 PM

<cite>Zural wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not to rain on the parade, but here is the dov update notes:Pet Stat SharingControllable Pets, including Possess Essence and Charm, will now share the following of their owner’s stats at a 1:1 ratio:<ul type="disc"><li>Attributes </li><li>Ability Modifier </li><li>Potency </li><li>Crit Bonus </li><li>Crit Chance </li><li>Toughness </li><li>Spell Double Attack </li><li>Ability Casting Speed </li><li>Ability Recovery Speed </li><li>Spell Reuse Speed </li><li>Ability Reuse Speed </li><li>Critical Mitigation </li></ul>Due to this change, most pet effects have been removed from items.Multi attack is not a shared stat, sorry.</blockquote>Fair enough. But the dog is definitely a controllable pet, and it should use our Wisdom as its primary stat. Which it is currently not doing.

Banditman

08-17-2011, 11:17 PM

I disagree.Here are my test results.I began by removing all my armor and all my buffs. This left me with 63 STR and 111 WIS and a 16% crit rate. I then took an Epic dummy out and told my dog to attack it. I let him chew on that for a while while I ran to the store and stopped him when I returned. He had taken 398 Swings, hit 296 times with a 16% crit rate. His minimum damage was 843 and maximum damage was 2126 for an average hit of 1228.55.I then went to the merchant and purchased gear with ONLY Wisdom and Stamina on it. I equipped this gear and it gave me 731 WIS, and I remained at 63 STR with a 16% crit rate. I then let him chew on the dummy again. He took 413 swings this time to achieve the same 296 hits, his crit rate was 17%, which is statistically within acceptable tolerances. His minimum damage this run was 1116 and his maximum was 2868 for an average hit of 1656.25.That seems fairly conclusive to me that my Wisdom is affecting my pets auto attack damage.You may be on to something, but it is not what you think it is. I don't know what it is, or even if you are in fact on to something, but it does not test out to be what you think.

EvilAstroboy

08-18-2011, 09:54 PM

Your results are nothing like what I have been seeing? Did some more tests, each one took about half an hour of the dog beating on a dummy.I removed all my gear and all my buffs and just had my base stats. My strength was 222 (not sure how yours got down to 63? maybe its related to my race (froglok), although my lowest stat was stamina at 122). and my base wisdom was 296. This resulted in the following parse, you can see the imbedded stats:<img src="http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n599/evilastro/EQ2/DPS1.jpg" />Then I put a a full set of armor of STR/STA gear for level 80. No jewellery etc, just armor pieces. My strength was raised to 526 but wisdom remained at 296. This was the resulting parse:<img src="http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n599/evilastro/EQ2/DPS2.jpg" />Then I went and got a full set of level 80 wisdom armor (some gear inadvertantly had intelligence as well). My wisdom was raised to 697 and my strength remained at the base of 222. This was the resulting parse:<img src="http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n599/evilastro/EQ2/DPS3.jpg" width="779" height="496" />So running through these results for median autoattack of the dog -222 strength, 296 wisdom - 1511 damage526 strength, 296 wisdom - 1914 damage222 strength, 697 wisdom - 1577 damageBased on these results, 304 strenth results in an increase in median autoattack damage of 403. Whereas an increase of 401 wisdom results in an increase in median autoattack damage of 66. This equates to roughly 1.32 median damage per point of strength and 0.16 median damage per point of wisdom.The variation between the first parse and the third parse is fairly minimal, and could just be due to random effects rather than an actual increase related to wisdom. The difference between the first parse and the second parse however is fairly noticable.At any rate, it would appear that our own wisdom is playing a minimal role in the scaling of the pet damage.

Besual

08-19-2011, 03:56 AM

<cite>EvilAstroboy wrote:</cite><blockquote>Your results are nothing like what I have been seeing? Did some more tests, each one took about half an hour of the dog beating on a dummy.I removed all my gear and all my buffs and just had my base stats. My strength was 222 (not sure how yours got down to 63? maybe its related to my race (froglok), although my lowest stat was stamina at 122). and my base wisdom was 296.of level 80 wisdom armor (some gear inadvertantly had intelligence as well). My wisdom was raised to 697 and my strength remained at the base of 222.<snip></blockquote>I guess you have spent AA point into the heroic tree's Attribute Prowess.

Amanathia

08-19-2011, 04:08 PM

<cite>Gaealiege@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>This has been an issue for months and I've bug reported it several times. I also made a post on the live forums about how the dog will randomly decide to stop attacking a mob. I don't foresee them fixing this whatsoever. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>This is absolutely true, I have a baby defiler alt and can vouch for this. If SOE wants to reproduce this, try it in protector's realm, the boss that fears does it for me everytime. Pet will get "bored".I guess we need to get him a squeekie toy or something to keep him entertained. He just gets bored and wanders back to his master, lol.

Banditman

08-20-2011, 07:16 PM

Shared Stats are working fine for our pet at a base level. If there is a problem it is somehow buff related.Here are three runs of 200 hits against a heroic training dummy. Run 1 is a Shaman with no armor, no food, no drink, no AA's spent (aside from the one required for the pet). At that point, the character has 63 STR, 37 WIS. Run 2 is the same character, with gear/buffs that increase ONLY WIS, 63 STR, 585 WIS. Run 3 removes all WIS gear/buffs and replaces it with STR, 593 STR, 37 WIS.Run 1: Min 393, Max 658, Average 526 (Base)Run 2: Min 549, Max 916, Average 740 (WIS)Run 3: Min 391, Max 657, Average 526 (STR)

Xalmat

08-20-2011, 08:53 PM

The fact that the two of you are getting different results tells me:a) someone is using incorrect testing methodologyb) someone is omitting something, by mistake most likelyc) something VERY strange is going on.

Davngr1

08-20-2011, 09:10 PM

the guy that posted parses has the right of way imo.. as of now it seems that pet shared stats are bugged or not configured correctly for shaman. unless someone post conflicting parses with stat screen shots. this seems like an easy enough fix but bare in mind that this might also be a balancing mechanic if the pet starts doing too much damage then it's penalty free 100% aoe avoid(not perfect but still best in game) may get nerfed.

Wilin

08-21-2011, 04:14 AM

I've wondered about this for some time. Whether or not the mechanic is working, why does our pet buff add to str/sta? If str does increase his damage, then shared stats are screwed up and it should be wis. If the pet is already using wis, then the pet buff should be changed to wis/sta. If the pet's stats are useless in a shared stat system, why does the buff modify the pet's stats at all? The stats buff should be something else that is not covered in shared stats like +MA or something similar.Either way, something is not right.

EvilAstroboy

08-21-2011, 03:10 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Shared Stats are working fine for our pet at a base level. If there is a problem it is somehow buff related.Here are three runs of 200 hits against a heroic training dummy. Run 1 is a Shaman with no armor, no food, no drink, no AA's spent (aside from the one required for the pet). At that point, the character has 63 STR, 37 WIS. Run 2 is the same character, with gear/buffs that increase ONLY WIS, 63 STR, 585 WIS. Run 3 removes all WIS gear/buffs and replaces it with STR, 593 STR, 37 WIS.Run 1: Min 393, Max 658, Average 526 (Base)Run 2: Min 549, Max 916, Average 740 (WIS)Run 3: Min 391, Max 657, Average 526 (STR)</blockquote>Ah yes, the stats from the heroic tree, forgot about that. Like I said in my above post though, I was running no buffs aside from the innate dog AA (Shadows endlines, Melee endline). All toggleable buffs were turned off. So the only thing that could have impacted those parses were the base stats. As I said before, I am not seeing the same results as you. Something is screwy.

Banditman

08-22-2011, 10:14 AM

I understand, however, those results I posted are easy to verify. Anyone can do it by following the steps, it's simply a matter of removing all the other potential factors.Shared stats work. They work properly, at the very most basic level. It may well be that there is a rather odd problem related to some buff or AA, but you'd have to work through that by adding one thing at a time and re-running the test over and over.The dog just isn't worth the literally DAYS of time that would be required to figure out specifically which buff might possibly be creating an issue. Kudos to anyone who wants to knock it out, but the key to this, and really any bug crushing, is to create a reproduceable result.Saying "something is screwy" is all well and good, but it's not going to get any Dev traction. If you can, on the other hand, say "Pet_Buff_21" is causing shared stats to fall apart for the Shaman pet, you'll probably see it fixed within a few weeks.

Wilin

08-23-2011, 01:22 AM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>I understand, however, those results I posted are easy to verify. Anyone can do it by following the steps, it's simply a matter of removing all the other potential factors.Shared stats work. They work properly, at the very most basic level. It may well be that there is a rather odd problem related to some buff or AA, but you'd have to work through that by adding one thing at a time and re-running the test over and over.The dog just isn't worth the literally DAYS of time that would be required to figure out specifically which buff might possibly be creating an issue. Kudos to anyone who wants to knock it out, but the key to this, and really any bug crushing, is to create a reproduceable result.Saying "something is screwy" is all well and good, but it's not going to get any Dev traction. If you can, on the other hand, say "Pet_Buff_21" is causing shared stats to fall apart for the Shaman pet, you'll probably see it fixed within a few weeks.</blockquote>Ya, and I'm not questioning your data. I'm wondering why, if WIS does affect the dog's damage(as it should), that our pet buff adds str/sta.That seems like a specific buff that is borked up and needs to be fixed.Edit: I'm referring specifically to the Sacred Follower ability from the Litany of Combat AA.

Banditman

08-23-2011, 11:15 AM

If I'm not mistaken, Litany's pet buff also increases DPS mod. Or is that our offensive stance? I forget. One of those definitely DOES increase DPS mod for the dog, which would make it "appear" that STR was improving pet damage, when in fact it is the DPS mod improving the damage.