Fix Ry'Gorr/Thurgadin Armor [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Maroger

08-10-2011, 09:07 PM

This armor needs a serious fix. You are asking players to buy it with shards and gems and honestly it it not much better than PQ armor and in many cases it is inferior.Sure some of the blue stats are somewhat better as is the crit mit but not enough to make it worthwhile to pay for.For every piece you buy you take hit on your mitigation - the Armor Class is considerably lower than the PQ armor. Not sure why anyone would buy it.Also I saw a Legendary Robe being auctioned today and someone was paying like 200PP for it and for mitigation it was worse than the PQ robe.Sure people need crit mit but when then crit mit is only 1-2 pts higher than the PQ armor why waste plats and shards on it.YOu really need to look at the armor you are selling and asking players to work and and get shards and gems for and then have it be worse than they are wearing.That is inexcuable and needs to be fixed.

Onodi

08-10-2011, 09:13 PM

care to toss in a for example Maroger? I can't think of any piece of PQ gear I would hold over Ry'Gorr gear... DoV's itemization upgrades are based on very small percentage improvments per set types so while it might not seem like much, in the longer run its a necessity (not even taking the focus effect bonus into consideration).Best to provide specific examples for the Devs, otherwise they have so much on their plate they won't sweep the gear from the top down to identify issues that you might see.

Maroger

08-10-2011, 09:24 PM

<cite>Onodi@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>care to toss in a for example Maroger? I can't think of any piece of PQ gear I would hold over Ry'Gorr gear... DoV's itemization upgrades are based on very small percentage improvments per set types so while it might not seem like much, in the longer run its a necessity (not even taking the focus effect bonus into consideration).Best to provide specific examples for the Devs, otherwise they have so much on their plate they won't sweep the gear from the top down to identify issues that you might see.</blockquote>Well they can look at the armor class that is true for EVERY SINGLE PIECE. --- RY'Gorr Armor lowers your mitigation by about 2 points per pieces - same with Thurgagin.Since they are making your buy - the amor class should be at least equal to PQ gear and you should not be losing mitigation because you are buying Ry'gorr gear.

Talathion

08-10-2011, 09:38 PM

PQ Gear has more cast/reuse speed, And has Multiattack, whilst Rygorr/Thurgadin does not.

Seiffil

08-10-2011, 09:48 PM

<cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>PQ Gear has more cast/reuse speed, And has Multiattack, whilst Rygorr/Thurgadin does not.</blockquote>Blanket statements aren't generally a good idea. Anyways, people have said it before, while the PQ gear has more cast/reuse speed, as a toon gets more reuse/cast speed from their jewelry and other slots, they can upgrade their armor to the Ry'Gorr armor.And with regards to scouts, we get more multi attack from the Ry'gorr/Thurgadin sets then on the PQ.

Talathion

08-10-2011, 10:01 PM

<cite>Seiffil@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>PQ Gear has more cast/reuse speed, And has Multiattack, whilst Rygorr/Thurgadin does not.</blockquote>Blanket statements aren't generally a good idea. Anyways, people have said it before, while the PQ gear has more cast/reuse speed, as a toon gets more reuse/cast speed from their jewelry and other slots, they can upgrade their armor to the Ry'Gorr armor.And with regards to scouts, we get more multi attack from the Ry'gorr/Thurgadin sets then on the PQ.</blockquote>I'm talking about fighters.

Maroger

08-10-2011, 10:05 PM

My biggest complaint is why does it have to lower your mitigation. Shouldn't the mitigation be at least equal to PQ. Mitigation is important to and a lot of the other things you can upgrade your PQ with adornments.I have found no player made adornment that raise the armor class or mitigation - you have to get gear for that so why should developers have you buy something which lowers your mitigation.

HBP

08-10-2011, 11:02 PM

The priest and mage Rygorr pieces have no casting speed. And as a Wizard, the focus effects are pointless seeing our reuse on Ice Comet and Fusion are near capped. Wizards won't get the full 60sec reuse for Fusion and the 15sec for Ice Comet. And by equipping the Rygorr gear over the PQ gear, I lose around 30% cast speed (not logged in so I can't give an exact number). The only scenario where I'll wear the Rygorr armor is if I need more crit mit.

Trensharo

08-10-2011, 11:09 PM

<cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>PQ Gear has more cast/reuse speed, And has Multiattack, whilst Rygorr/Thurgadin does not.</blockquote>PQ Gear does not have more reuse. It has more Casting Speed. Casting speed which is useless on the armor once you get better jewelry. Your healer is an alt, so I can understand why if it has terrible jewelry, but don't make baseless general statement based on that experience.

Trensharo

08-10-2011, 11:11 PM

<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote>My biggest complaint is why does it have to lower your mitigation. Shouldn't the mitigation be at least equal to PQ. Mitigation is important to and a lot of the other things you can upgrade your PQ with adornments.I have found no player made adornment that raise the armor class or mitigation - you have to get gear for that so why should developers have you buy something which lowers your mitigation.</blockquote>You can put maybe 1-2 1.5% Reuse Adornments on PQ gear...You can add like 20% (or close to that) Casting Speed to Ry'Gorr gear.

Elskidor

08-10-2011, 11:14 PM

Wow, if this actually gets worked on I may get a set. As it stands it's a waste of shards for Mages and Priests and seriously lacking stats for tanks. You can tell whoever created that set was obsessed with scouts however, because it rocks for scouts.Before the "PQ gear is the problem" dorks start posting, I'll say right now that my Mage and Priest had more casting speed before PQ gear was introduced from SF expansion. PQ gear nerfed all my casters casting speed, so PQ was not this OMGBESTEST overpowered gear for those stats either. The Ry'Gorr is just a smack in the face pitiful. Oh yeah, crit mit is the most important stat ever so everyone is suppose to ignore everything else.

Talathion

08-10-2011, 11:51 PM

<cite>Elskidor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wow, if this actually gets worked on I may get a set. As it stands it's a waste of shards for Mages and Priests and seriously lacking stats for tanks. You can tell whoever created that set was obsessed with scouts however, because it rocks for scouts.Before the "PQ gear is the problem" dorks start posting, I'll say right now that my Mage and Priest had more casting speed before PQ gear was introduced from SF expansion. PQ gear nerfed all my casters casting speed, so PQ was not this OMGBESTEST overpowered gear for those stats either. The Ry'Gorr is just a smack in the face pitiful. Oh yeah, crit mit is the most important stat ever so everyone is suppose to ignore everything else.</blockquote>to bad the difference between rygorr/pq gear critical mit wise is /gasp 1%.

Elskidor

08-11-2011, 12:19 AM

Think it has over 20% crit mit+.

Talathion

08-11-2011, 12:26 AM

<cite>Elskidor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Think it has over 20% crit mit+. </blockquote>PQ helm has 14 crit mit, Rygorr 16. - 2PQ Shoulders have 13 Crit Mit, Rygorr 16 - 3PQ boots have 7, rygorr 8 - 1PQ gloves have 7, rygorr 8 - 1PQ forearms have 7, rygorr have 8 - 1PQ legs have 24, rygorr have 26 - 210.

Maroger

08-11-2011, 01:04 AM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote>My biggest complaint is why does it have to lower your mitigation. Shouldn't the mitigation be at least equal to PQ. Mitigation is important to and a lot of the other things you can upgrade your PQ with adornments.I have found no player made adornment that raise the armor class or mitigation - you have to get gear for that so why should developers have you buy something which lowers your mitigation.</blockquote>You can put maybe 1-2 1.5% Reuse Adornments on PQ gear...You can add like 20% (or close to that) Casting Speed to Ry'Gorr gear.</blockquote>As far as I know these stats do not increase mitigation which seems to come purely from Armor Class.

Talathion

08-11-2011, 01:17 AM

<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote>My biggest complaint is why does it have to lower your mitigation. Shouldn't the mitigation be at least equal to PQ. Mitigation is important to and a lot of the other things you can upgrade your PQ with adornments.I have found no player made adornment that raise the armor class or mitigation - you have to get gear for that so why should developers have you buy something which lowers your mitigation.</blockquote>You can put maybe 1-2 1.5% Reuse Adornments on PQ gear...You can add like 20% (or close to that) Casting Speed to Ry'Gorr gear.</blockquote>As far as I know these stats do not increase mitigation which seems to come purely from Armor Class.</blockquote>what are you talking about? Who cares if PQ has more mitigation then Rygorr, it barley even matters. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Trensharo

08-11-2011, 04:50 AM

<cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Elskidor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Think it has over 20% crit mit+. </blockquote>PQ helm has 14 crit mit, Rygorr 16. - 2PQ Shoulders have 13 Crit Mit, Rygorr 16 - 3PQ boots have 7, rygorr 8 - 1PQ gloves have 7, rygorr 8 - 1PQ forearms have 7, rygorr have 8 - 1PQ legs have 24, rygorr have 26 - 210.</blockquote>Ry Gorr Legs have like 31-33 Crit Mit. What are you talking about? They're a 7'ish CM upgrade from PQ.You get more than that from the other pieces. Those decimal points add up.If you're trying to make a point, blatantly lying about the numbers is not helping your case. I'll give you the real numbers for Ry'Gorr: EDIT: Ry'GorrForearms, Gloves, Boots = 9.6 CM - Gain = 2.8 x 3 = 8.4 CMShoulders, Helm = 16.8 CM - Gain = 2.8 + 3.8 = 6.6 CMLegs = 31.8 CM - Gain = 7.8 CMAdd it up: 8.4 + 6.6 + 7.8 = +22.8 CM going from PQ to Ry'GorrPQ Robe is 24 CM. Spire is 33.x and ToRZ BP is 37.1, so you get another 9 CM just upgrading to Spire BP. So you can gain over 30 CM upgrading out of PQ gear. And a ton of reuse which is not easy to cap by without raid gear (with casting speed being easy to cap). As a side product, you have to Adorn more casting speed, which should not be an issue if it means that much to you (you get a ton on jewelry if you actually raid instead of just buy gear form Auction).If you seriously think PQ gear has reuse on it than Ry'Gorr then I dunno what to say.

Trensharo

08-11-2011, 04:51 AM

<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote>My biggest complaint is why does it have to lower your mitigation. Shouldn't the mitigation be at least equal to PQ. Mitigation is important to and a lot of the other things you can upgrade your PQ with adornments.I have found no player made adornment that raise the armor class or mitigation - you have to get gear for that so why should developers have you buy something which lowers your mitigation.</blockquote>You can put maybe 1-2 1.5% Reuse Adornments on PQ gear...You can add like 20% (or close to that) Casting Speed to Ry'Gorr gear.</blockquote>As far as I know these stats do not increase mitigation which seems to come purely from Armor Class.</blockquote>I wasn't responding to your post. You quoted everything in context, why is it so hard to understand? I'm not the one who brought up the casting speed. Talathion did, so talk to him if you think it's a derail.

Maroger

08-11-2011, 08:59 AM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote>My biggest complaint is why does it have to lower your mitigation. Shouldn't the mitigation be at least equal to PQ. Mitigation is important to and a lot of the other things you can upgrade your PQ with adornments.I have found no player made adornment that raise the armor class or mitigation - you have to get gear for that so why should developers have you buy something which lowers your mitigation.</blockquote>You can put maybe 1-2 1.5% Reuse Adornments on PQ gear...You can add like 20% (or close to that) Casting Speed to Ry'Gorr gear.</blockquote>As far as I know these stats do not increase mitigation which seems to come purely from Armor Class.</blockquote>I wasn't responding to your post. You quoted everything in context, why is it so hard to understand? I'm not the one who brought up the casting speed. Talathion did, so talk to him if you think it's a derail.</blockquote>Thanks for the clarification I am only talking about MitigationTalathion tends to derail every thread he gets invovled in as he fails to read or understand what the topic is about.

Odys

08-11-2011, 01:58 PM

<cite>HBP wrote:</cite><blockquote>The priest and mage Rygorr pieces have no casting speed. And as a Wizard, the focus effects are pointless seeing our reuse on Ice Comet and Fusion are near capped. Wizards won't get the full 60sec reuse for Fusion and the 15sec for Ice Comet. And by equipping the Rygorr gear over the PQ gear, I lose around 30% cast speed (not logged in so I can't give an exact number). The only scenario where I'll wear the Rygorr armor is if I need more crit mit. </blockquote>I fully agree, my warden went from PQ to EM gear, my mystic will go from SF gear to EM gear, my coercer will not buyt all the rygor pieces.The only pieces that are really important are the one with special effect.

Jrral

08-11-2011, 02:00 PM

<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thanks for the clarification I am only talking about Mitigation</blockquote>The thing is, at that level those few points of mitigation per piece, totalled up, amount to a few tenths of a percent difference in the incoming damage. The crit mit overwhelms that, because the amount of additional damage from crits is so much greater. Your healer's going to hardly notice the small bit of additional damage from the mitigation difference, especially if they're in Ry'gorr gear or better themselves, but without sufficient crit mit the critical hits from the mobs are going to blow right through wards and reactives and any amount of mitigation and one-shot the tank, and you can't heal a corpse.I run a healer in the main tank group in raids, and heal a lot of instances (all the way up to solo-healing Temple of Rallos Zek). I can see the difference in survivability of the tanks go up as they replace PQ gear with Ry'gorr shard armor. And that's what matters in the end: the ability of the tank to stay alive and hold aggro. If armor with less mitigation makes the tank more able to stay alive and hold aggro, then that's the armor the tanks should be using.

Felshades

08-11-2011, 02:42 PM

<cite>Onodi@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>care to toss in a for example Maroger? I can't think of any piece of PQ gear I would hold over Ry'Gorr gear... DoV's itemization upgrades are based on very small percentage improvments per set types so while it might not seem like much, in the longer run its a necessity (not even taking the focus effect bonus into consideration).Best to provide specific examples for the Devs, otherwise they have so much on their plate they won't sweep the gear from the top down to identify issues that you might see.</blockquote>I've still got two on my mystic.I can't justify losing cast time in favor of recast when recast isn't what screws me.. its cast speed I need.Yes, there's raid jewelry with cast speed on it. I don't raid. So I'm not replacing my PQ pieces.

Amanathia

08-11-2011, 03:31 PM

<cite>Elskidor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wow, if this actually gets worked on I may get a set. As it stands it's a waste of shards for Mages and Priests and seriously lacking stats for tanks. You can tell whoever created that set was obsessed with scouts however, because it rocks for scouts.Before the "PQ gear is the problem" dorks start posting, I'll say right now that my Mage and Priest had more casting speed before PQ gear was introduced from SF expansion. PQ gear nerfed all my casters casting speed, so PQ was not this OMGBESTEST overpowered gear for those stats either. The Ry'Gorr is just a smack in the face pitiful. Oh yeah, crit mit is the most important stat ever so everyone is suppose to ignore everything else.</blockquote>The other sadness is the PQ gear has that super nice, for mages for example, 100 int 100 sta set bonuses...making, in some cases, equipping that piece of ry'gorr armor a big downgrade if you can't equip a bunch of it at once to make up for the set bonus loss <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />(((

Fitz

08-11-2011, 04:07 PM

This is a silly argument. Rygorr is much better - don't like the mitigation? Toss on a 2.5% mitigation increase adorn on it because (oh yeah!) it has a yellow adorn, which pq doesn't. Want ma? Put an adorn on. Critical mitigation is superior in this expansion. That's why you saw that item go for 200p. The pq cm isn't nearly as good. What actually needs addressing is that the fabled drunder heroic bp is worse than the zek heroic bp. That's messed up.

feldon30

08-11-2011, 04:15 PM

<cite>Fitz wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is a silly argument. Rygorr is much better - don't like the mitigation? Toss on a 2.5% mitigation increase adorn on it because (oh yeah!) it has a yellow adorn, which pq doesn't.</blockquote>FAILThe better PQ gear has yellow adorn slots.Ry'Gorr armor is unquestionably better for Scouts. For everyone else, there are problems. It's got less MA for fighters, less Casting Speed for Priests and Mages, and less mitigation.Saying you can adorn Ry'Gorr gear to solve the problem is equally silly, since I could adorn PQ gear and it would be SUPERIOR to Ry'Gorr again.Gear should have a progression. That it doesn't is not the player's faults.

urgthock

08-11-2011, 04:19 PM

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Gear should have a progression. That it doesn't is not the player's faults.</blockquote>And if they ever fix it to have progression, I am sure they will do it by nerfing PQ gear instead of bumping up Ry'gorr gear like they should.

feldon30

08-11-2011, 04:21 PM

Well they already nerfed PQ gear like twice in the days after launch. What's one more?

Alpharaz

08-11-2011, 04:51 PM

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fitz wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is a silly argument. Rygorr is much better - don't like the mitigation? Toss on a 2.5% mitigation increase adorn on it because (oh yeah!) it has a yellow adorn, which pq doesn't.</blockquote>FAILThe better PQ gear has yellow adorn slots.Ry'Gorr armor is unquestionably better for Scouts. For everyone else, there are problems. It's got less MA for fighters, less Casting Speed for Priests and Mages, and less mitigation.Saying you can adorn Ry'Gorr gear to solve the problem is equally silly, since I could adorn PQ gear and it would be SUPERIOR to Ry'Gorr again.Gear should have a progression. That it doesn't is not the player's faults.</blockquote>Finally someone who points out the obvious in a way others can understand.. Ive been wondering for months how in the world upgrading from pq to ry'gorr armor could possibly be an upgrade with my healers and mages they lose so much casting speed they have to get adornments and certain jewelry to raise it back up, yet it doesnt seem like scouts sacrifice any stats when switching to ry'gorr gear other than pointless riposte and maybe some atk speed (im not sure i cant quite remember exactly how much atk speed they lose) I dont really see how anyone can honestly say thats a fair upgrade for all classes. no hesitation in upgrading my scout from pq to ry'gorr gear but my casters will probably wait for next expansion to upgrade to new gear rather than wasting shards

Fitz

08-11-2011, 05:02 PM

PQ has yellow adorns? It's been a while since I've worn it, ha. Well, shrug. I only had two or three pieces of rygorr before raiding and I did those for the foci. As a mage, my dps and survivability increased. If you don't want to run drunder heroic zones, stick to your pq. If you want to progress, make casting speed sacrifices for critical mitigation. You will get repeatedly instagibbed in drunder without crit mit, and the significant hit point gain from the stats alone is worth it, from a mage perspective. I never wore rygorr on my bruiser, so I can't comment on fighters.

Loxus

08-11-2011, 05:27 PM

<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote>This armor needs a serious fix. You are asking players to buy it with shards and gems and honestly it it not much better than PQ armor and in many cases it is inferior.Sure some of the blue stats are somewhat better as is the crit mit but not enough to make it worthwhile to pay for.For every piece you buy you take hit on your mitigation - the Armor Class is considerably lower than the PQ armor. Not sure why anyone would buy it.Also I saw a Legendary Robe being auctioned today and someone was paying like 200PP for it and for mitigation it was worse than the PQ robe.Sure people need crit mit but when then crit mit is only 1-2 pts higher than the PQ armor why waste plats and shards on it.YOu really need to look at the armor you are selling and asking players to work and and get shards and gems for and then have it be worse than they are wearing.That is inexcuable and needs to be fixed.</blockquote>It would help if we knew what class you are refering to. Furthermore, are you compairing attuned PQ armor to the armor as seen on the vendor?As a tank I intially thought the same that the mitigation amounts were lower then PQ armor/SF raid armor when looking at it on the orc vendor. However when you actually atune it and the percentage increases to mitigation kick in you'll notice a huge difference in mitigation numbers between Ry'gor and PQ. Ry'gor is superior by almost 600 to 800 points; at least for the Pally set. The problem I'm seeing is the actual mitigation deminishing returns curves seem to be a little steep/low since the mitigation nerf (equation adjustment discussed by Xelgad this last fall) between this expansion and last, at least for Pallys. I'm hitting the curve about 64% solo offensive and can't for the life of me to get to 65% when last expansion I was easily sitting at 68% solo (same thing at 68% defensive this expansion). I think the mitigation problem might actually be in the mitigation equation calculations. (pure speculation) I'm not raiding this expansion, but I'd be curious what the mit number percentages look like for the DOV raid armor if I'm hitting the curve this hard in legendary. Does the game calculate different curves for different levels (legendary vs. fabled) of armor? On my Coercer, the mit seems to have stayed the same from my T2 SF raid armor which is right about where I think this should be given that PQ armor is about equivalent to SF T1 raid armor. Mobs also hit like trucks in some of the upper zones.I'm talking pure mitigation and overlooking the "Monty Hall" blue stat increases (or lack therof) this expansion brought.

Ryai

08-11-2011, 05:30 PM

Newsflash, itemization is borked in its entirety. The whole system needs to be re-evaluated. Turns out items by script is terrible.

Elskidor

08-11-2011, 05:55 PM

If it's ever to be worked on then GU61 would be the time to do it. We're getting a new expansion in a few months, and at that point there will be an entire new easy gear set (like pq) that blows all of this stuff out of the water. I don't think Ry'Gorr will be tampered with this far into to DoV, unless the new expansion is pushed back a few months.

feldon30

08-11-2011, 06:22 PM

<cite>Elskidor wrote:</cite><blockquote>If it's ever to be worked on then GU61 would be the time to do it. We're getting a new expansion in a few months, and at that point there will be an entire new easy gear set (like pq) that blows all of this stuff out of the water. I don't think Ry'Gorr will be tampered with this far into to DoV, unless the new expansion is pushed back a few months. </blockquote>I'm not so sure they'll press the reset button on itemization in November.

Maroger

08-12-2011, 07:19 PM

<cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote>My biggest complaint is why does it have to lower your mitigation. Shouldn't the mitigation be at least equal to PQ. Mitigation is important to and a lot of the other things you can upgrade your PQ with adornments.I have found no player made adornment that raise the armor class or mitigation - you have to get gear for that so why should developers have you buy something which lowers your mitigation.</blockquote>You can put maybe 1-2 1.5% Reuse Adornments on PQ gear...You can add like 20% (or close to that) Casting Speed to Ry'Gorr gear.</blockquote>As far as I know these stats do not increase mitigation which seems to come purely from Armor Class.</blockquote>what are you talking about? Who cares if PQ has more mitigation then Rygorr, it barley even matters. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>This guy is a worthless troll and should stop posting . He contributes NOTHING.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" />

Hateeternal

08-12-2011, 07:32 PM

Hi I'm just gonna throw my 2 cents in here:Ry'Gorr armor is very very fine, please DONT ever change this.Anyone who wears PQ armor over Ry'Gorr is just... well, blind?I'm playing all archetypes and every single one of my characters has much improved in DPS or HPS, changing from PQ to Ry'Gorr armor.Sure you might loose a few percent cast speed here and there or even MA for fighters BUT, your main stat will increase a lot and so will your health and crit miti. I don't get that there are still people who do not see what stats are important in this addon.Complaining about mitigation (1 or 2 points per item)? Geez there is nothing, no single stat, that is less important than mitigation... omg.You will also win cb and pot with every Ry'Gorr piece over PQ pieces, which is in accordance with your main stat, stamina and crit miti like a 1.000.000.000x better and more important than a few stupid points of mitigation or castspeed.If you play the game, do the instances and so on, you will soon have way more castspeed than you'll ever need.Not even mentioning focus effects here....Bottom line: Ry'Gorr stuff is very well balanced in between PQ-, Instance- and raid-gear. The only thing that needed to be changed with Ry'Gorr armor was it's price. A piece is now 20 shards (crafted) and the gems drop like candy now. So it's just perfect.And again, I really can only laugh out very loud on people saying PQ gear is better than Ry'Gorr armor... OMG!regards

Maroger

08-12-2011, 07:53 PM

<cite>Loxus@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote>This armor needs a serious fix. You are asking players to buy it with shards and gems and honestly it it not much better than PQ armor and in many cases it is inferior.Sure some of the blue stats are somewhat better as is the crit mit but not enough to make it worthwhile to pay for.For every piece you buy you take hit on your mitigation - the Armor Class is considerably lower than the PQ armor. Not sure why anyone would buy it.Also I saw a Legendary Robe being auctioned today and someone was paying like 200PP for it and for mitigation it was worse than the PQ robe.Sure people need crit mit but when then crit mit is only 1-2 pts higher than the PQ armor why waste plats and shards on it.YOu really need to look at the armor you are selling and asking players to work and and get shards and gems for and then have it be worse than they are wearing.That is inexcuable and needs to be fixed.</blockquote>It would help if we knew what class you are refering to. Furthermore, are you compairing attuned PQ armor to the armor as seen on the vendor?As a tank I intially thought the same that the mitigation amounts were lower then PQ armor/SF raid armor when looking at it on the orc vendor. However when you actually atune it and the percentage increases to mitigation kick in you'll notice a huge difference in mitigation numbers between Ry'gor and PQ. Ry'gor is superior by almost 600 to 800 points; at least for the Pally set. The problem I'm seeing is the actual mitigation deminishing returns curves seem to be a little steep/low since the mitigation nerf (equation adjustment discussed by Xelgad this last fall) between this expansion and last, at least for Pallys. I'm hitting the curve about 64% solo offensive and can't for the life of me to get to 65% when last expansion I was easily sitting at 68% solo (same thing at 68% defensive this expansion). I think the mitigation problem might actually be in the mitigation equation calculations. (pure speculation) I'm not raiding this expansion, but I'd be curious what the mit number percentages look like for the DOV raid armor if I'm hitting the curve this hard in legendary. Does the game calculate different curves for different levels (legendary vs. fabled) of armor? On my Coercer, the mit seems to have stayed the same from my T2 SF raid armor which is right about where I think this should be given that PQ armor is about equivalent to SF T1 raid armor. Mobs also hit like trucks in some of the upper zones.I'm talking pure mitigation and overlooking the "Monty Hall" blue stat increases (or lack therof) this expansion brought.</blockquote>I have the PQ armor which has Yellow adornment slots - a full set. Attuned the Mit (NOT CRIT MIT) was about 44.7%I added a piece of RYGORR armor and my mitigation went down to 43.7%I just added 3 pieces of easy mode raid gear which was numerically +83 over the equivalent pieces of Attuned PQ armor -- even after attuning the new armor my MITIGATION (NOT CRIT) was still at 43.7%. This does not seem right to me it is as if the Mitigation of the new armor is not being included in the MITIGATION figures.I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT ANY OF THE BLUE STATS and my Crit Mit did go up based on the new numbers -

Elskidor

08-12-2011, 09:22 PM

<cite>Hateeternal wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi I'm just gonna throw my 2 cents in here:Ry'Gorr armor is very very fine, please DONT ever change this.Anyone who wears PQ armor over Ry'Gorr is just... well, blind?I'm playing all archetypes and every single one of my characters has much improved in DPS or HPS, changing from PQ to Ry'Gorr armor.Sure you might loose a few percent cast speed here and there or even MA for fighters BUT, your main stat will increase a lot and so will your health and crit miti. I don't get that there are still people who do not see what stats are important in this addon.Complaining about mitigation (1 or 2 points per item)? Geez there is nothing, no single stat, that is less important than mitigation... omg.You will also win cb and pot with every Ry'Gorr piece over PQ pieces, which is in accordance with your main stat, stamina and crit miti like a 1.000.000.000x better and more important than a few stupid points of mitigation or castspeed.If you play the game, do the instances and so on, you will soon have way more castspeed than you'll ever need.Not even mentioning focus effects here....Bottom line: Ry'Gorr stuff is very well balanced in between PQ-, Instance- and raid-gear. The only thing that needed to be changed with Ry'Gorr armor was it's price. A piece is now 20 shards (crafted) and the gems drop like candy now. So it's just perfect.And again, I really can only laugh out very loud on people saying PQ gear is better than Ry'Gorr armor... OMG!regards</blockquote>Wrong again. If your a scout then great. If your anything else then you best be constantly in a gorup or raid that supplies the rest of the stats that you lose. Scouts are gtg, tanks aren't terrible, but could be much better. Priests and Mages only gain crit mit and 77 of each stat, but lose 30+ cast speed and a nice chunk of reuse. Been there tried that, and dps is actually lower. Well duh...it's because it's crud.

Trensharo

08-12-2011, 11:27 PM

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Elskidor wrote:</cite><blockquote>If it's ever to be worked on then GU61 would be the time to do it. We're getting a new expansion in a few months, and at that point there will be an entire new easy gear set (like pq) that blows all of this stuff out of the water. I don't think Ry'Gorr will be tampered with this far into to DoV, unless the new expansion is pushed back a few months. </blockquote>I'm not so sure they'll press the reset button on itemization in November.</blockquote>The quest gear that I've seen suggests otherwise.

Odys

08-13-2011, 12:15 AM

As it was metionned here the loss in casting speed in MAJOR when you go from PQ/instance mold to rygor. As example changing a single piece may lead to a drop of 10%.Except for my tank that use a full set all other toon have only 2-3 pieces.My warden only got the hat and the trousers made, and she kept her SF t1/t2 till she got Em gear.The only pieces of rygor that are welome are the 2-3 with class effect and the trousers.

gourdon

08-13-2011, 12:23 AM

<cite>Elskidor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wow, if this actually gets worked on I may get a set. As it stands it's a waste of shards for Mages and Priests and seriously lacking stats for tanks. You can tell whoever created that set was obsessed with scouts however, because it rocks for scouts.Before the "PQ gear is the problem" dorks start posting, I'll say right now that my Mage and Priest had more casting speed before PQ gear was introduced from SF expansion. PQ gear nerfed all my casters casting speed, so PQ was not this OMGBESTEST overpowered gear for those stats either. The Ry'Gorr is just a smack in the face pitiful. Oh yeah, crit mit is the most important stat ever so everyone is suppose to ignore everything else.</blockquote>Part of the problem is that PQ armor is worse for scouts than it is for other classes (riposte related abilites being the problem). This makes the Ry'Gorr armor an easy upgrade for scouts and not so easy for others.

Hateeternal

08-13-2011, 05:32 AM

Why is everyone so obsessed with a few percent of castspeed?Have you ever had a look at your stats while in a group or raid situation?What do you want with 130-140% castspeed + ? Seriously?You gain far more output through your main stat + cb/pot and I'll tell you what: You'll even have higher DPS/HPS parse in most zones because, thanks to stamina and crit miti, you're not spending 3/4 of the time wiping the zone's floor with your robe or leather outfit or whatever... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />p.s.: people running around in dov instances with Sentinels Fate T1/T2 gear are, imho, ward- heal- and loot-leaching SoB's.

feldon30

08-13-2011, 01:25 PM

<cite>Hateeternal wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why is everyone so obsessed with a few percent of castspeed?Have you ever had a look at your stats while in a group or raid situation?What do you want with 130-140% castspeed + ? Seriously?</blockquote>That number (130-140% cast speed) tells me you are in full or close to full Raid gear. Nobody in Heroic gear has that high casting speed.The people in this and other threads who are so quick to dismiss the loss of Casting Speed on Ry'Gorr gear eventually admit that they are in Raid guilds and so this issue that they are commenting/trolling about doesn't even affect them.If you are wearing mostly raid gear, especially x2 and x4 EM jewelry, please think about it before posting.

Trensharo

08-13-2011, 01:33 PM

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Hateeternal wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why is everyone so obsessed with a few percent of castspeed?Have you ever had a look at your stats while in a group or raid situation?What do you want with 130-140% castspeed + ? Seriously?</blockquote>That number (130-140% cast speed) tells me you are in full or close to full Raid gear. Nobody in Heroic gear has that high casting speed.The people in this and other threads who are so quick to dismiss the loss of Casting Speed on Ry'Gorr gear eventually admit that they are in Raid guilds and so this issue that they are commenting/trolling about doesn't even affect them.If you are wearing mostly raid gear, especially x2 and x4 EM jewelry, please think about it before posting.</blockquote>People in Heroic gear can almost cap cast speed without adornments, and definitely wiht a few adornments. You aren't limited to Ry'Gorr. Just swap out some pieces that don't have focus and you're golden.It's not like you need 160 CM for a Heroic Dungeon.Also, he asked what do you want wiht that much. He didn't say he had that much.If they put that much cast speed on the Tier Gear, that's what most people would have, a ridiculous amount of overcapped (even with cap removal, it's useless) casting speed - especially in a group.x2 is basically a Heroic dungeon these days, even moderately geared people 1 group it and a raid geared group can do it easily with the tank 2 boxing a DPS.Maybe you should go there to see the extent to which the difficulty has been nerfed. Spire of Rage is more Challenging than everything up to and including Manifestation in ToFSx2.Really the only x2 that's actually an x2 right now is Citadel of Vuul.

ShadowMunkie

08-13-2011, 03:54 PM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Hateeternal wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why is everyone so obsessed with a few percent of castspeed?Have you ever had a look at your stats while in a group or raid situation?What do you want with 130-140% castspeed + ? Seriously?</blockquote>That number (130-140% cast speed) tells me you are in full or close to full Raid gear. Nobody in Heroic gear has that high casting speed.The people in this and other threads who are so quick to dismiss the loss of Casting Speed on Ry'Gorr gear eventually admit that they are in Raid guilds and so this issue that they are commenting/trolling about doesn't even affect them.If you are wearing mostly raid gear, especially x2 and x4 EM jewelry, please think about it before posting.</blockquote>People in Heroic gear can almost cap cast speed without adornments, and definitely wiht a few adornments. You aren't limited to Ry'Gorr. Just swap out some pieces that don't have focus and you're golden.It's not like you need 160 CM for a Heroic Dungeon.Also, he asked what do you want wiht that much. He didn't say he had that much.If they put that much cast speed on the Tier Gear, that's what most people would have, a ridiculous amount of overcapped (even with cap removal, it's useless) casting speed - especially in a group.x2 is basically a Heroic dungeon these days, even moderately geared people 1 group it and a raid geared group can do it easily with the tank 2 boxing a DPS.Maybe you should go there to see the extent to which the difficulty has been nerfed. Spire of Rage is more Challenging than everything up to and including Manifestation in ToFSx2.Really the only x2 that's actually an x2 right now is Citadel of Vuul.</blockquote>Citadel of Vuul isn't really a x2, its more of a x3 difficulty for x2 players. It takes knowledge and gear to complete that zone. I agree that ToFS x2 is a joke, people 1 group it all the time and sell the loot from it. Its so easy that literally any pur can go in and kill Tserrina.

Jrral

08-13-2011, 04:24 PM

<cite>Hateeternal wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why is everyone so obsessed with a few percent of castspeed?</blockquote>Mostly because, I think, they're running around in PQ armor and no instance or ToFS x2 jewelry. The quest jewelry doesn't give a lot of casting speed for mages and priests, you get most of it from the PQ armor. As you get instance and ToFS x2 jewelry, it's got more casting and reuse speed on it. Thurg and Ry'gorr armor drops the casting speed because they expect you to be getting it from the better jewelry you're getting along the way. I've, for instance, got my healer in full Ry'gorr and I've got better casting speed now than I ever did while they were in PQ armor because of improved jewelry and white adornments on the armor (I didn't bother with many adornments on the PQ armor becaues I knew I'd be replacing it).NB: the shifts between sets do mean you don't usually want to piecemeal replace PQ armor. Until you've got 3-4 pieces of Thurg or Ry'gorr armor you won't get enough from them to make it worth giving up the PQ set bonuses. OTOH with the reduced costs it's a lot easier now to get those 3-4 pieces.

Trensharo

08-13-2011, 11:45 PM

<cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Hateeternal wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why is everyone so obsessed with a few percent of castspeed?</blockquote>Mostly because, I think, they're running around in PQ armor and no instance or ToFS x2 jewelry. The quest jewelry doesn't give a lot of casting speed for mages and priests, you get most of it from the PQ armor. As you get instance and ToFS x2 jewelry, it's got more casting and reuse speed on it. Thurg and Ry'gorr armor drops the casting speed because they expect you to be getting it from the better jewelry you're getting along the way. I've, for instance, got my healer in full Ry'gorr and I've got better casting speed now than I ever did while they were in PQ armor because of improved jewelry and white adornments on the armor (I didn't bother with many adornments on the PQ armor becaues I knew I'd be replacing it).NB: the shifts between sets do mean you don't usually want to piecemeal replace PQ armor. Until you've got 3-4 pieces of Thurg or Ry'gorr armor you won't get enough from them to make it worth giving up the PQ set bonuses. OTOH with the reduced costs it's a lot easier now to get those 3-4 pieces.</blockquote>^ This exactly.

Felshades

08-14-2011, 03:40 AM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Hateeternal wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why is everyone so obsessed with a few percent of castspeed?</blockquote>Mostly because, I think, they're running around in PQ armor and no instance or ToFS x2 jewelry. The quest jewelry doesn't give a lot of casting speed for mages and priests, you get most of it from the PQ armor. As you get instance and ToFS x2 jewelry, it's got more casting and reuse speed on it. Thurg and Ry'gorr armor drops the casting speed because they expect you to be getting it from the better jewelry you're getting along the way. I've, for instance, got my healer in full Ry'gorr and I've got better casting speed now than I ever did while they were in PQ armor because of improved jewelry and white adornments on the armor (I didn't bother with many adornments on the PQ armor becaues I knew I'd be replacing it).NB: the shifts between sets do mean you don't usually want to piecemeal replace PQ armor. Until you've got 3-4 pieces of Thurg or Ry'gorr armor you won't get enough from them to make it worth giving up the PQ set bonuses. OTOH with the reduced costs it's a lot easier now to get those 3-4 pieces.</blockquote>^ This exactly.</blockquote>I'm in instance jewelry. No X2. No I don't raid.One earring, one ring, both charms, my offhand and secondary have cast speed. Neck, belt, one ring and one earring do not. They have reuse instead. To put Ry'Gorr in the two slots of PQ gear I have left(lost a shoulder upgrade so I'm still wearing those) I lose 14.6% cast speed. On TWO items.My problem with people dying isn't that my heals aren't big enough or aren't up soon enough. It's that they're not casting fast enough. Till I can make up that loss somewhere else, I'm not replacing my gloves and shoulders.

Trensharo

08-14-2011, 04:10 AM

Go to Kael instances and loot some better than PQ gear or jewels with casting speed on them, then?Is it really that hard, and do we have to keep telling you people this over and over again?

tbone88888

08-14-2011, 08:02 AM

Forget about casting speed, reuse, int etc. Its all about crit mit. Take an entire group in nothing but pq gear in to a harder heroic zone or raid zone...u will be lying flat on your face. Casting speed and MA wont help u if youre dead.

feldon30

08-14-2011, 09:44 AM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Go to Kael instances and loot some better than PQ gear or jewels with casting speed on them, then?Is it really that hard, and do we have to keep telling you people this over and over again?</blockquote>Ry'Gorr armor is supposed to be better than some random Kael instance loot drop except HM Zek.Is it really that hard to understand, or do I have to keep telling you this over and over again?The justifications for Ry'Gorr armor being a DOWNGRADE in every respect but Crit, Crit Mit and Potency are beyond absurd.

Trensharo

08-14-2011, 08:22 PM

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Go to Kael instances and loot some better than PQ gear or jewels with casting speed on them, then?Is it really that hard, and do we have to keep telling you people this over and over again?</blockquote>Ry'Gorr armor is supposed to be better than some random Kael instance loot drop except HM Zek.Is it really that hard to understand, or do I have to keep telling you this over and over again?The justifications for Ry'Gorr armor being a DOWNGRADE in every respect but Crit, Crit Mit and Potency are beyond absurd.</blockquote>Says you? Quote a dev saying this. Your opinion doesn't dictate game design and itemization.

Talathion

08-14-2011, 09:19 PM

My Defiler is in full PQ gear (the gear with more reuse/cast speed), x2 Breastplate, and full x2 jewelry.He will easily outperform another defiler with the same gear, except wearing Rygorr pieces, he will tear up the guy in Rygorr because he casts 30% faster and has more reuse.I'm still not at 100% Casting Speed or 50% Reuse.Believe what you want, but I will just adorn every piece of my obviously better PQ gear with Critical Mit and get almost the same critical mit as you do (probably only 10% less, lol, and I get it almost for free!).((P.S. If I replace anything it will be with raid gear, and I probably will only need 1 piece!)))

Trensharo

08-15-2011, 12:53 AM

Talathion are you brainless?We just told you PQ gear is 22% crit mit less than Ry'Gorr. That's not trivial. Crit Mit is only the start of it.You're actively nerfing your:Critical Mitigation, Health Pool, Power Pool, Critical Bonus, Potency, and Ability Reuse for Casting speed that you can replace enough of via Adornments and better Jewelry. You're also down 3 Focus Effects (usefulness is class dependent).Sorry, but going with PQ over Ry'Gorr makes no sense. It's not better than Ry'Gorr. Not even close. Casting speed is important, but you can get a lot of that back with 4.6% Adornments that go in a lot of slots (Charm, Wrists, Cloak IIRC, and some armor slots).You're not making sense. Please try again.

Felshades

08-15-2011, 02:14 AM

Felshades

08-15-2011, 02:15 AM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Go to Kael instances and loot some better than PQ gear or jewels with casting speed on them, then?Is it really that hard, and do we have to keep telling you people this over and over again?</blockquote>Ry'Gorr armor is supposed to be better than some random Kael instance loot drop except HM Zek.Is it really that hard to understand, or do I have to keep telling you this over and over again?The justifications for Ry'Gorr armor being a DOWNGRADE in every respect but Crit, Crit Mit and Potency are beyond absurd.</blockquote>Says you? Quote a dev saying this. Your opinion doesn't dictate game design and itemization.</blockquote>They've said a number of times that drunder is meant to be run in Ry'Gorr gear. Not Kael gear. Ry'Gorr gear. If it wasn't supposed to be better than Kael drops, they'd tell you do use Kael gear and not Ry'Gorr.Pull your head out of your raiding bottom for a minute and think about the demographic that is speaking here. SOME OF US DO NOT RAID.

Talathion

08-15-2011, 02:48 AM

My Defiler has 140% Critical Mit, Good enough for EM Raids (Drundar Zones Are a waste of time for healers)And hes in PQ gear!

Trensharo

08-15-2011, 03:09 AM

<cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>My Defiler has 140% Critical Mit, Good enough for EM Raids (Drundar Zones Are a waste of time for healers)And hes in PQ gear!</blockquote>x4 Raids have an innate CB beyond what the tooltip says. Yes, they've been nerfed multiple times. We know this. Ry'Gorr will have you at 165+ with 2 Adornment slots being used for something that isn't Crit Mit (i.e. SDA Shoulders and Rending on Forearms or Boots for Necros).PQ gear is 135 Max. 147 or so with a ToRZ BP.So you're getting hit harder with less HP, getting mana drained with a smaller mana pool. Healing for less, and skills like Battle Rezes, etc. are taking longer to recycle... Missing Foci...Because you're too lazy to adorn casting speed on the Ry'Gorr armor, or are just that terrible at math.Again, it's not making much sense...At person above, I didn't make any assumption IRT your gear. I simply stated that if you do not raid then you do not need the extra CM on Ry'Gorr and should upgrade form PQ to Ry'Gorr pieces with Foci + Heroic gear that may have better item budget distribution for your character for what you do.Drunder instances are not useless. They are another step in progression for non-raiders including another tier of gear that adds more foci to the set. The RvR being low is another topic, however.

Talathion

08-15-2011, 03:25 AM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>My Defiler has 140% Critical Mit, Good enough for EM Raids (Drundar Zones Are a waste of time for healers)And hes in PQ gear!</blockquote>x4 Raids have an innate CB beyond what the tooltip says. Yes, they've been nerfed multiple times. We know this. Ry'Gorr will have you at 165+ with 2 Adornment slots being used for something that isn't Crit Mit (i.e. SDA Shoulders and Rending on Forearms or Boots for Necros).PQ gear is 135 Max. 147 or so with a ToRZ BP.So you're getting hit harder with less HP, getting mana drained with a smaller mana pool. Healing for less, and skills like Battle Rezes, etc. are taking longer to recycle... Missing Foci...Because you're too lazy to adorn casting speed on the Ry'Gorr armor, or are just that terrible at math.Again, it's not making much sense...At person above, I didn't make any assumption IRT your gear. I simply stated that if you do not raid then you do not need the extra CM on Ry'Gorr and should upgrade form PQ to Ry'Gorr pieces with Foci + Heroic gear that may have better item budget distribution for your character for what you do.Drunder instances are not useless. They are another step in progression for non-raiders including another tier of gear that adds more foci to the set. The RvR being low is another topic, however.</blockquote>The only 2 good Defiler Focus are The Ward and Priest Stances, Rest are bad, PQ gear is better.Drundar Instances are almost impossible to do without raid geared people, <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Kunaak

08-15-2011, 03:41 AM

currently on test - rygoor and thurgadin armor are worse then quested gear.quested gear = 15 crit mit.rygoor = 9 crit mit.

feldon30

08-15-2011, 03:46 AM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Because you're too lazy to adorn casting speed on the Ry'Gorr armor, or are just that terrible at math.</blockquote>We've been told by devs we're supposed to be adorning Ry'Gorr gear with Crit Mit adorns, not casting speed. <cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Talathion are you brainless?</blockquote>Was there ever any doubt?

Delirya

08-15-2011, 05:39 AM

Out of curiosity I did a comparison for myself going from the PQ to Ry'Gorr set. I'm not, nor ever will be a raider, so don't bother going there! Here's what I found for my 90 conjy: Int and Stam +77 Crit Bonus + 11.3 Potency +6.6 Ability Casting -34.6 Ability Reuse +1.2 Crit Mit +36.3 After seeing that, I decided to stick to the PQ gear. It's a matter of personal preference really. It would be nice if there actually was some form of progression from one set to the next, but clearly there isn't.

Talathion

08-15-2011, 05:50 AM

<cite>Delirya@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Out of curiosity I did a comparison for myself going from the PQ to Ry'Gorr set. I'm not, nor ever will be a raider, so don't bother going there! Here's what I found for my 90 conjy: Int and Stam +77 Crit Bonus + 11.3 Potency +6.6 Ability Casting -34.6 Ability Reuse +1.2 Crit Mit +36.3 After seeing that, I decided to stick to the PQ gear. It's a matter of personal preference really. It would be nice if there actually was some form of progression from one set to the next, but clearly there isn't.</blockquote>You must be including the chest plate.Please compare without the chest plate (since most people wear PQ gear + Rygorr Chest or x2 Chest)The only good part of the Rygorr set is the Chest Plate, and thats really easy to get, easier to get then the rest of the armor.So yeah, what I mean to say is.PQ Gear + Rygorr Chestplate = Better then Full Rygorr gear.

Delirya

08-15-2011, 06:02 AM

I shall take a look at that then!By easy, you mean soloable? :p

Trensharo

08-15-2011, 06:05 AM

Nope, still wrong Tala. 4.6% Casting Speed Adornments go in the following slots:Forearm, Wrist (x2), Charm (x2), Legs, Cloak4.6 * 7 = 32.2% Casting Speed Recovered via White AdornmentsYou also lose Foci on PQ armor.That's why Ry'Gorr is clearly superior.Because you can EASILY recover the casting speed on the ugprade, but you cannot recover all of those other stats.Tell me what useful stat is a heroic runner going to put in all of those White Adornment slots otherwise... Crit Rate that you can cap for Heroics with 4-6 items and no Adornments.I guess that's why you guys don't raid, though <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Talathion

08-15-2011, 12:13 PM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nope, still wrong Tala. 4.6% Casting Speed Adornments go in the following slots:Forearm, Wrist (x2), Charm (x2), Legs, Cloak(yep, and mine are all adorned for casting speed!)4.6 * 7 = 32.2% Casting Speed Recovered via White Adornments(Yep! And I still get the Casting Speed from my PQ gear!)You also lose Foci on PQ armor.(NOOOOOOOOO! Curseweaving's Duration is 5% Less, The World is ENDING!)That's why Ry'Gorr is clearly superior.(Because Focus: Clearly Bad, is better then 30% Cast Speed!)Because you can EASILY recover the casting speed on the ugprade, but you cannot recover all of those other stats.(I can do that on PQ gear and get even MORE of those juicy stats!)Tell me what useful stat is a heroic runner going to put in all of those White Adornment slots otherwise... Crit Rate that you can cap for Heroics with 4-6 items and no Adornments.I guess that's why you guys don't raid, though <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />(Guess what, Kraytocs and Most EM Raids Require 100-120% Critical Mitigation... but you probably didn't know that)</blockquote>Because you clearly need 165% Critical Mitigation to beat mobs with 110-120 Critical Bonus!<div><cite>Delirya@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>I shall take a look at that then!By easy, you mean soloable? :p<div></div></blockquote></div>Don't listen to them... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" />Go do Temple of Rallos Zek for a chestplate, or buy the x2 Chestplate from auction (or even the TORZ one).They cost about 250-300p, don't pay any more for them, they sell all the time too!I suggest buying the x2 Chest, that way you can pick your best Focus Slot and put it on it using SF Adornments... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" />

LadyEdderkopp

08-15-2011, 06:31 PM

It's kinda funny, when we did the DoV beta one of the biggest complaints in the druid AA's was spirit of the druidism, because everyone was already capped in castingspeed in SF <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />X4 jewelry (EM) is just a point upgrade from the legendary Kael ones, you are just a few points lower than you would be with raid jewelry.There are group-buffs, temps, etc that make castingspeed if anything overcapped in most groups. (yes, you can still bug out castingspeed by getting too much of it).The reason PQ gear has more castingspeed than the orc stuff is because people from SF gear wanted to stay around the same stats they had in SF (100% castingspeed) and the PQ doesn't drop jewelry. They instead put all the castingspeed on the armor.If you run in a group without a enchanter and a bard with people offering little-->no temps/buffs than I feel your pain and stay with PQ gear and the higher castingspeed, if not you should reach the cap in all legendary instance jewelry, white adorns, groupbuffs and orc armor.Also, for healers remember that if your healingstance offers a bonus to beneficial castingspeed that will not be shown in the standard UI.

HBP

08-15-2011, 06:43 PM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nope, still wrong Tala. 4.6% Casting Speed Adornments go in the following slots:Forearm, Wrist (x2), Charm (x2), Legs, Cloak4.6 * 7 = 32.2% Casting Speed Recovered via White AdornmentsYou also lose Foci on PQ armor.That's why Ry'Gorr is clearly superior.Because you can EASILY recover the casting speed on the ugprade, but you cannot recover all of those other stats.Tell me what useful stat is a heroic runner going to put in all of those White Adornment slots otherwise... Crit Rate that you can cap for Heroics with 4-6 items and no Adornments.I guess that's why you guys don't raid, though <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></blockquote> Roll a wizard and explain to me how the foci make Rygorr gear "clearly superior?" And putting casting speed in every available slot would require me to lose crit chance in those slots.

LadyEdderkopp

08-15-2011, 07:02 PM

Well, 10% extra hp and reuse on fusion/ice comet doesn't look horrible to me.. I'm not a wizard so I wouldn't know but just the 10% extra hp sounds pretty damned nice.

Fitz

08-15-2011, 07:47 PM

It'll be interesting how you handle the "this damage is harder to mitigate" point blank nukes in drunder without those hp. Unless you're fine with running zek over and over. If you want to progress, you probably (definitely) want to switch to survivability with rygorr. Doing less dps is better than being dead. I made the mistake of inviting someone in pq gear to a drunder run, and we spent half an hour rezzing him before we asked him to leave. Moral of the story: if you want to run the same stuff over and over, stay in pq. If you want to process to drunder, take the dps hit and equip rygorr.

Talathion

08-15-2011, 07:48 PM

Easy way to Fix Rygorr, Add another Yellow Slot to it.

Trensharo

08-15-2011, 10:53 PM

<cite>HBP wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nope, still wrong Tala. 4.6% Casting Speed Adornments go in the following slots:Forearm, Wrist (x2), Charm (x2), Legs, Cloak4.6 * 7 = 32.2% Casting Speed Recovered via White AdornmentsYou also lose Foci on PQ armor.That's why Ry'Gorr is clearly superior.Because you can EASILY recover the casting speed on the ugprade, but you cannot recover all of those other stats.Tell me what useful stat is a heroic runner going to put in all of those White Adornment slots otherwise... Crit Rate that you can cap for Heroics with 4-6 items and no Adornments.I guess that's why you guys don't raid, though <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></blockquote> Roll a wizard and explain to me how the foci make Rygorr gear "clearly superior?" And putting casting speed in every available slot would require me to lose crit chance in those slots. </blockquote>Have a Warlock at 90.Try again?He has 210% Crit and 74% Casting Speed with no Adornments. TC gives a Wizard 20% Casting Speed and then get 12% from AAs (and some reuse as well).Go to Kael Contested and get 41+ Crit Pri/Sec/Offhand and 11-13 Crit Charm/Neck.He'll still cap casting speed after I replace the last two PQ gear slots and Adorn his gear, easily, in any semi-decent group (Bard Casting Speed buff, TC or UT, etc.).For solo questing, when I rarely do it, I simply swap in an item or two (as I do on my main) to add a bit more casting speed. It's not hard.

Trensharo

08-15-2011, 10:54 PM

<cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Easy way to Fix Rygorr, Add another Yellow Slot to it.</blockquote>Feldon is right. Your terrible ideas know no bounds.

Fitz

08-16-2011, 03:31 PM

A conceivable fix is to add a set bonus to rygorr. But imo, it's still superior and the only way to progress.

Trensharo

08-16-2011, 04:17 PM

<cite>Sakiri@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Go to Kael instances and loot some better than PQ gear or jewels with casting speed on them, then?Is it really that hard, and do we have to keep telling you people this over and over again?</blockquote>Ry'Gorr armor is supposed to be better than some random Kael instance loot drop except HM Zek.Is it really that hard to understand, or do I have to keep telling you this over and over again?The justifications for Ry'Gorr armor being a DOWNGRADE in every respect but Crit, Crit Mit and Potency are beyond absurd.</blockquote>Says you? Quote a dev saying this. Your opinion doesn't dictate game design and itemization.</blockquote>They've said a number of times that drunder is meant to be run in Ry'Gorr gear. Not Kael gear. Ry'Gorr gear. If it wasn't supposed to be better than Kael drops, they'd tell you do use Kael gear and not Ry'Gorr.Pull your head out of your raiding bottom for a minute and think about the demographic that is speaking here. SOME OF US DO NOT RAID.</blockquote>Drunder is doable in Ry'Gorr gear. The Crit Mit Requirements are low even for the x2 (they don't have innate CB so 160 is the max you need for Drunder Heroic/x2 content). You get over 160 CM with Ry'Gorr + ToRZ BP.Adornments are not Raid Gear.You don't have to raid to get x2 Jewelry. There are items in Kael Contested and Drunder Heroics that are almost of the same quality and in some cases better.I don't know why you're still crying about not raiding and wanting this trivial heroic gear to be boosted to kingdom come.

Trensharo

08-16-2011, 04:19 PM

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Because you're too lazy to adorn casting speed on the Ry'Gorr armor, or are just that terrible at math.</blockquote>We've been told by devs we're supposed to be adorning Ry'Gorr gear with Crit Mit adorns, not casting speed.We were told this by the Devs before they nerfed the CB in the Heroics/Contested/Raids 2-3 times. That was more of an excuse for them to justify releasing overtuned content, especially IRT Kael and Drunder Heroics and x2 instances. Remember when you basically needed 170+ CM for i.e. ToRZ because of the Base Buff Package + Innate Crit Bonus? Now you only need 115 which anyone can get with PQ gear + Spire Robe and a few SF Adornments.So... Given when those statements were made I'd say they've been pretty much invalidated by patches since then. Just IMO, of course.<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Talathion are you brainless?</blockquote>Was there ever any doubt?Well, there is always a slither of hope...</blockquote>Red Text.

Trensharo

08-16-2011, 04:28 PM

<cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nope, still wrong Tala. 4.6% Casting Speed Adornments go in the following slots:Forearm, Wrist (x2), Charm (x2), Legs, Cloak(yep, and mine are all adorned for casting speed!)4.6 * 7 = 32.2% Casting Speed Recovered via White Adornments(Yep! And I still get the Casting Speed from my PQ gear!)You also lose Foci on PQ armor.(NOOOOOOOOO! Curseweaving's Duration is 5% Less, The World is ENDING!)That's why Ry'Gorr is clearly superior.(Because Focus: Clearly Bad, is better then 30% Cast Speed!)Because you can EASILY recover the casting speed on the ugprade, but you cannot recover all of those other stats.(I can do that on PQ gear and get even MORE of those juicy stats!)Tell me what useful stat is a heroic runner going to put in all of those White Adornment slots otherwise... Crit Rate that you can cap for Heroics with 4-6 items and no Adornments.I guess that's why you guys don't raid, though <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />(Guess what, Kraytocs and Most EM Raids Require 100-120% Critical Mitigation... but you probably didn't know that)</blockquote>Because you clearly need 165% Critical Mitigation to beat mobs with 110-120 Critical Bonus!Because any decent player clearly wants to take a healer with less Power/HP/Pot/CB/Reuse/etc. over a better geared healer just because it wanted to have a ton of overcap casting speed in any decent group or raid?It's not about the CM. I already said that if you only do Heroics, you can use the Yellow Slots for other stats. That's the nature of the Adornment system, and your apparent lack of reading comprehension I guess...I have over 200 Crit Mit so what Kraytoc's and pre-Drunder EM raids require is non-factor to me at this point. Before I seen ToFS x2 I had a full Ry'Gorr set fully adorned with Crit Mit barring the SDA Shoulder Adornment and I did had the Heroic Tserinna robe which is marginally better than PQ with a CM adornment in it. I had all the Heroic Jewelry and set bonuses form them.I've never had CM issues in EM - ever. So I've never had to worry about it much less even look at the buff package because Crit Rate is too easy to raise even with Heroic/Contested Gear if you put in some extra time to farm fableds (which I assume someone who only does Heroics has no issues doing, since I didn't when I didn't raid, though I was gearing to start raiding at that time).Seriously your healer is an alt I don't even know why you're going off that trying to make a point. Most decent healers I know in the game do not wear that PQ gear. It's simply not good enough.You cannot do Drunder Heroics decently in PQ gear unless you have an amazing tank carrying you on a healer. You definitely cannot do Drunder Heroics in a group full of PQ geared players. It's simply not gonna happen. You can barely (if even) get past Golem Boss in ToRZ or Snake Boss in Fortress Spire with a PQ geared group these days. That kind of group wouldn't even be able to pop the first boss in Spire of Rage.Please just stop the hardcore vs. casual B.S. It's really pathetic.<div><cite>Delirya@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>I shall take a look at that then!By easy, you mean soloable? :p<div></div></blockquote></div>Don't listen to them... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" />Go do Temple of Rallos Zek for a chestplate, or buy the x2 Chestplate from auction (or even the TORZ one).They cost about 250-300p, don't pay any more for them, they sell all the time too!I suggest buying the x2 Chest, that way you can pick your best Focus Slot and put it on it using SF Adornments... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Blue text. You should like that color.

Fitz

08-16-2011, 04:43 PM

How many of you PQ people have run drunder? I'm seriously curious. And by run, I mean downed all/most mobs in at least SOR. I'd venture to say it's impossible with PQ gear.

Banditman

08-16-2011, 05:19 PM

I completed Tactics on my alt Inquisitor in: PQ Forearms, Fortress Spire BP, RyGorr Hat, Shoulders, Feet, Pants and EM Hands. Jewelry was a real mix of SF and DoV (no x4, a couple x2, some Fabled MC, Legendary).I was never crit'ed on at 195 crit mit, and I crit'ed 98% sitting at 226 crit (solo, we had a bard).It all worked out to 195 Crit Mit, 226 Crit Chance, 140 Crit Bonus, 140 Potency. Cast speed was capped, Re-use speed was 95%.It's really not impossible if you work at it. It isn't gonna be handed to you, but you can get to where you need to be for any of the heroic content with only heroic content as your source. ESPECIALLY if you work your way up through the Drunder zones. The gear dropping there is easily equivalent to EM x4 gear, but lacks the set bonuses and focuses.There is good progression in the heroic game, and PQ gear will allow you to bypass the initial parts of it (ToFS and Velks) and go strait to KD zones and graduate quickly to Drunder.

Fitz

08-16-2011, 06:07 PM

Did you have just one piece of PQ (that's how I read it)? If so, you're an example of what I was trying to show. I haven't heard of anyone doing drunder in PQ gear. By that of course, I mean a majority of gear being the "superior" PQ gear. Your one piece of EM and one piece of PQ is roughly equivalent to someone in full rygorr.

Trensharo

08-17-2011, 12:50 AM

Not Roughly, it literally is when you factor in the red adorn slot and extra stat the x4 gloves gain over the Ry'Gorr - not to mention the CB/Pot is 1.5 Higher and the Crit Mit is factorably higher on the x4 gear (the higher STA/INT pretty much makes up for the base stat discrepency).Having a PQ helm at that level of Heroics is not really needed, anyways. The domination helms from the Kael instances is clearly superior.Helm is the weakest Ry'Gorr piece so it doesn't suprise me that that would be the last piece someone would ugprade. It was the last piece I upgraded.

feldon30

08-17-2011, 02:27 AM

<cite>Fitz wrote:</cite><blockquote>How many of you PQ people have run drunder? I'm seriously curious. And by run, I mean downed all/most mobs in at least SOR. I'd venture to say it's impossible with PQ gear.</blockquote>The crit mit requirements of Drunder forcing players to equip the low speed Ry'Gorr gear is a red herring to this argument. We have to wear it does not mean there's nothing wrong with it. People used to carry and equip sets of awful gear just because it had Nox resist on it.The ability to equip 6 casting speed adornments is also puzzling, although the statement that "if you are only doing heroics, do you really need more than 120% crit chance?" does bear consideration.

Fitz

08-17-2011, 04:06 AM

It's absolutely not a red herring to this argument. If players desire to progress through content, then they must accept the CM limitations and realize that rygorr is simply an upgrade in CM, even if it's a downgrade in DPS. I make that same sacrifice while raiding, when I decide to put a 7%CM adorn on my gear instead of CB, pot, or SDA. Being alive > being dead with better dps.

Trensharo

08-17-2011, 04:20 AM

<cite>Fitz wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's absolutely not a red herring to this argument. If players desire to progress through content, then they must accept the CM limitations and realize that rygorr is simply an upgrade in CM, even if it's a downgrade in DPS. I make that same sacrifice while raiding, when I decide to put a 7%CM adorn on my gear instead of CB, pot, or SDA. Being alive > being dead with better dps.</blockquote>It's only a downgrade DPS when you're doing hyper trivial content in terrible group setups.Assuming the player in question has not geared themselves even semi-decently.

Odys

08-17-2011, 08:34 AM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>I completed Tactics on my alt Inquisitor in: PQ Forearms, Fortress Spire BP, RyGorr Hat, Shoulders, Feet, Pants and EM Hands. Jewelry was a real mix of SF and DoV (no x4, a couple x2, some Fabled MC, Legendary).I was never crit'ed on at 195 crit mit, and I crit'ed 98% sitting at 226 crit (solo, we had a bard).It all worked out to 195 Crit Mit, 226 Crit Chance, 140 Crit Bonus, 140 Potency. Cast speed was capped, Re-use speed was 95%.It's really not impossible if you work at it. It isn't gonna be handed to you, but you can get to where you need to be for any of the heroic content with only heroic content as your source. ESPECIALLY if you work your way up through the Drunder zones. The gear dropping there is easily equivalent to EM x4 gear, but lacks the set bonuses and focuses.There is good progression in the heroic game, and PQ gear will allow you to bypass the initial parts of it (ToFS and Velks) and go strait to KD zones and graduate quickly to Drunder.</blockquote>195% crit mit ? My paladin wear a full set of adorned rygor (5% crit mit everywhere) and sits around 150, granted that he does not have a good BP (he have the "bad" rime 3 BP that drops from dockmaster).You probably omitted something.He has like 125 pot/crut bonus (counting his 8% potency buf), with 3 x2 jewell + 2 jewell from kael (no MC items from kael gems).You may be mitting something else.I also wonder what gear had the others members, one persorn is just 1/6 of a group. Have you tried with a group fully equiped with heroic drops ?I m not saying it's impossible i did a drunder run (before the nerf) with people wearing rygor/x2 jewels. It took us longer than a x4 raid to kill 5 bosses.