Re-Use AA proposal

[threat111]

<p>With so many of the classes having AA options to lower re-use of abilities and itemization taking us to the point where they are all but useless, I have a suggestion.  AA abilities that lower the re-use, should lower the base amount of the abilities re-use.  This would allow the AA's to always be effective and still make use of the gear and buffs that lower ability re-use.</p><p>Here is a rough example of what I am proposing.</p><p>Ability X has a base re-use of 20 seconds.  (currently with aa and re-use it would cap at 10 sec re-use)</p><p>Ability X has AA that can lower the Re-use of it by 5 seconds.</p><p>The new Base re-use with the 5 second AA reduction is 15 seconds.</p><p>Now ability re-use can modify that new base, reached thru AA, to a minimum of 7.5 seconds instead of the original 10 second hard cap.</p>

[Nevao]

<p><cite>Cerium@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>With so many of the classes having AA options to lower re-use of abilities and itemization taking us to the point where they are all but useless, I have a suggestion.  AA abilities that lower the re-use, should lower the base amount of the abilities re-use.  This would allow the AA's to always be effective and still make use of the gear and buffs that lower ability re-use.</p><p>Here is a rough example of what I am proposing.</p><p>Ability X has a base re-use of 20 seconds.  (currently with aa and re-use it would cap at 10 sec re-use)</p><p>Ability X has AA that can lower the Re-use of it by 5 seconds.</p><p>The new Base re-use with the 5 second AA reduction is 15 seconds.</p><p>Now ability re-use can modify that new base, reached thru AA, to a minimum of 7.5 seconds instead of the original 10 second hard cap.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not a big fan of this idea only becuase classes are balance around their reuse and that could throw the balance right out the window</p>

[Iacon]

<p>I think they should roll all the current reuse AAs into one AA, Focus: Reuse. That way people who still want them can get them, and the rest of us can get something else new, that is hopefully more desireable.</p>

[threat111]

<p><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cerium@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>With so many of the classes having AA options to lower re-use of abilities and itemization taking us to the point where they are all but useless, I have a suggestion.  AA abilities that lower the re-use, should lower the base amount of the abilities re-use.  This would allow the AA's to always be effective and still make use of the gear and buffs that lower ability re-use.</p><p>Here is a rough example of what I am proposing.</p><p>Ability X has a base re-use of 20 seconds.  (currently with aa and re-use it would cap at 10 sec re-use)</p><p>Ability X has AA that can lower the Re-use of it by 5 seconds.</p><p>The new Base re-use with the 5 second AA reduction is 15 seconds.</p><p>Now ability re-use can modify that new base, reached thru AA, to a minimum of 7.5 seconds instead of the original 10 second hard cap.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not a big fan of this idea only becuase classes are balance around their reuse and that could throw the balance right out the window</p></blockquote><p>Balance is thrown out the window with almost every major change.  This change simply puts more focus on spells and abilities and not mindless auto attacks.</p><p>Something has to be done.  Re-use caps are to easy to achive and the vast majority of the classes have a large amount of near useless AA options centered around re-use of abilities.</p><p>Allowing for AA's to adjust the Base re-use makes those AA useful.</p>

[Nevao]

<p><cite>Cerium@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cerium@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>With so many of the classes having AA options to lower re-use of abilities and itemization taking us to the point where they are all but useless, I have a suggestion.  AA abilities that lower the re-use, should lower the base amount of the abilities re-use.  This would allow the AA's to always be effective and still make use of the gear and buffs that lower ability re-use.</p><p>Here is a rough example of what I am proposing.</p><p>Ability X has a base re-use of 20 seconds.  (currently with aa and re-use it would cap at 10 sec re-use)</p><p>Ability X has AA that can lower the Re-use of it by 5 seconds.</p><p>The new Base re-use with the 5 second AA reduction is 15 seconds.</p><p>Now ability re-use can modify that new base, reached thru AA, to a minimum of 7.5 seconds instead of the original 10 second hard cap.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not a big fan of this idea only becuase classes are balance around their reuse and that could throw the balance right out the window</p></blockquote><p>Balance is thrown out the window with almost every major change.  This change simply puts more focus on spells and abilities and not mindless auto attacks.</p><p>Something has to be done.  Re-use caps are to easy to achive and the vast majority of the classes have a large amount of near useless AA options centered around re-use of abilities.</p><p>Allowing for AA's to adjust the Base re-use makes those AA useful.</p></blockquote><p>Perpaps then instead the AAs should give something other than reuse? Seems like it would be an easier solution then just giving mages even more DPS for free.</p>

[threat111]

<p><cite>Iacon@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think they should roll all the current reuse AAs into one AA, Focus: Reuse. That way people who still want them can get them, and the rest of us can get something else new, that is hopefully more desireable.</p></blockquote><p>To give you an idea of how much wasted AA there are in the AA tree's for re-use, as a SK I have 60aa (not including the 10 re-use in the heroic tree) that directly adjust the re-use of spells or abilities.  35 of which are located in my Shadowknight tree and need to be used to unlock endline abilities.  So its not like I can simply avoid taking them for better options like in other tree's.  (by better options I mean an option that des anything at all, not acually desirable.)</p><p>In the heroic tree, the 3rd tier, 20 out of 40 of the AA are centered on re-use.  Essentialy only giving crusaders 2 options in that tree not 4.</p><p>So if you had any type of AA focus my tree's and many other classes that are loaded with re-use would have to be completely redone.  This would take alot more time than simply allowing for the base re-use to be modified by aa.</p>

[threat111]

<p><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cerium@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cerium@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>With so many of the classes having AA options to lower re-use of abilities and itemization taking us to the point where they are all but useless, I have a suggestion.  AA abilities that lower the re-use, should lower the base amount of the abilities re-use.  This would allow the AA's to always be effective and still make use of the gear and buffs that lower ability re-use.</p><p>Here is a rough example of what I am proposing.</p><p>Ability X has a base re-use of 20 seconds.  (currently with aa and re-use it would cap at 10 sec re-use)</p><p>Ability X has AA that can lower the Re-use of it by 5 seconds.</p><p>The new Base re-use with the 5 second AA reduction is 15 seconds.</p><p>Now ability re-use can modify that new base, reached thru AA, to a minimum of 7.5 seconds instead of the original 10 second hard cap.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not a big fan of this idea only becuase classes are balance around their reuse and that could throw the balance right out the window</p></blockquote><p>Balance is thrown out the window with almost every major change.  This change simply puts more focus on spells and abilities and not mindless auto attacks.</p><p>Something has to be done.  Re-use caps are to easy to achive and the vast majority of the classes have a large amount of near useless AA options centered around re-use of abilities.</p><p>Allowing for AA's to adjust the Base re-use makes those AA useful.</p></blockquote><p>Perpaps then instead the AAs should give something other than reuse? Seems like it would be an easier solution then just giving mages even more DPS for free.</p></blockquote><p>Wouldnt that be doing the same thing?</p>

[Nevao]

<p><cite>Cerium@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cerium@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cerium@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>With so many of the classes having AA options to lower re-use of abilities and itemization taking us to the point where they are all but useless, I have a suggestion.  AA abilities that lower the re-use, should lower the base amount of the abilities re-use.  This would allow the AA's to always be effective and still make use of the gear and buffs that lower ability re-use.</p><p>Here is a rough example of what I am proposing.</p><p>Ability X has a base re-use of 20 seconds.  (currently with aa and re-use it would cap at 10 sec re-use)</p><p>Ability X has AA that can lower the Re-use of it by 5 seconds.</p><p>The new Base re-use with the 5 second AA reduction is 15 seconds.</p><p>Now ability re-use can modify that new base, reached thru AA, to a minimum of 7.5 seconds instead of the original 10 second hard cap.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not a big fan of this idea only becuase classes are balance around their reuse and that could throw the balance right out the window</p></blockquote><p>Balance is thrown out the window with almost every major change.  This change simply puts more focus on spells and abilities and not mindless auto attacks.</p><p>Something has to be done.  Re-use caps are to easy to achive and the vast majority of the classes have a large amount of near useless AA options centered around re-use of abilities.</p><p>Allowing for AA's to adjust the Base re-use makes those AA useful.</p></blockquote><p>Perpaps then instead the AAs should give something other than reuse? Seems like it would be an easier solution then just giving mages even more DPS for free.</p></blockquote><p>Wouldnt that be doing the same thing?</p></blockquote><p>Not really. If you add 15% to the base damage you increase the DPS of the spell/CA by a minimal ammount (relatively speaking). Decreasing the recast time beyond the current "capped" levels will increase it's damage by a significantly larger amount.</p>

[threat111]

<p>Honestly the gains are almost the same.  It would simply come down to the amount of increase per rank vs the amount of reduction.</p>

[Circa]

<p>this would make Ice Comet way op</p>

[Nevao]

<p>Honestly it would make a good number of Abilities overpowered. Ice Comet is just the easiest to point to.</p><p>However I don't feel like doing the math to prove to him what I already know. I'm not worried though. I'm sure the Dev's will see this as an OP idea favoring certain classes anyway.</p>

[threat111]

<p><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Honestly it would make a good number of Abilities overpowered. Ice Comet is just the easiest to point to.</p><p>However I don't feel like doing the math to prove to him what I already know. I'm not worried though. I'm sure the Dev's will see this as an OP idea favoring certain classes anyway.</p></blockquote><p>So whats better, 10% re-use or 10% potency?</p><p>See you proposed that the abilities should just get a random amount of potency instead of re-use but, like I said if the gains are similar.  If anything becuase of the broken way SOE applys re-use potency is better in almost every case.</p><p>Since the Ice comet example was brought up, lets take a look at it.  The base re-use time on IC is 45 seconds.  With 5aa spent in enhanced Ice Comet it would lower the base re-use to 40 seconds.  Then if you apply 100% ability re-use to the spell the min re-use would be 20 seconds.  Currenty the Min recast is 22.5 seconds.  If some where in your dark and cloudy world spending 5aa to lower the recast of Ice comet 2.5 seconds is over-powered then I really dont have anything else to say to you.</p>

[Nevao]

<p>Because if you do it for AA you'd have to do it for focus effects as well.</p><p>Ice Comet AA: 5 seconds</p><p>Ice Comet Focus: 15 seconds</p><p>45 - 5 - 15 = 25, with max reuse that moves it down to 22.5 seconds</p><p>Now if take your approach it moves the min reuse to</p><p>25 * .5 = 12.5</p><p>So you're telling us that being able to cast Ice Comet just shy twice as often ever fight is not going to make it more powerful than intended?</p><p>Ice Comet is not the only spell/CA that could be effected this extremely. You may think this is a good idea but I promise you it would have unintended consequences on balance.</p>

[Karagon]

<p>Just re-use should be uncapped like anything else.</p><p>100 re-use = -50%200 re-use = -60% etc...</p>

[threat111]

<p><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Because if you do it for AA you'd have to do it for focus effects as well.</p><p>Ice Comet AA: 5 seconds</p><p>Ice Comet Focus: 15 seconds</p><p>45 - 5 - 15 = 25, with max reuse that moves it down to 22.5 seconds</p><p>Now if take your approach it moves the min reuse to</p><p>25 * .5 = 12.5</p><p>So you're telling us that being able to cast Ice Comet just shy twice as often ever fight is not going to make it more powerful than intended?</p><p>Ice Comet is not the only spell/CA that could be effected this extremely. You may think this is a good idea but I promise you it would have unintended consequences on balance.</p></blockquote><p>I showed and demonstrated to you how I thought the system should work. You decided to add something to what I proposed that would make your invalid argument valid again. You yourself said that "Ice Comet is just the easiest one to point to." I showed you how I felt a new system should reflect these changes. I demonstrated a small, yet modest gain. Then you look for other things to justify the fact your conclusion is correct, when in fact it is not.</p><p>No, you wouldn't have to do it for the focus items. I am just talking about the AA's. The focus effects and items, gear ect are options to make up for these. There is no reason they would not be separate. It not only gives people the freedom to use those focus effects if they need to, but it also gives the upper tier players options to select gear and other focus items to benefit his or her level of progression.</p><p>Having AA's that can specifically mod base effects gives AA's a unique purpose beyond spending useless points to meet end-line requirements.</p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"> </p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"> </p>

[Talathion]

<p><span style="font-size: 11px;"><strong><em>How about no.</em></strong></span></p>

[threat111]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: 11px;"><strong><em>How about no.</em></strong></span></p></blockquote><p> Don't take this the wrong way.. I am not attempting to troll you. In my eyes, whether its fact or not, you are about 9-12 years old. So I really don't care about your opinion, regardless of how many times you attempt to dilute threads. I subconsciously skip right over anything you type in these threads.</p><p>How about taking the time to thoughtfully communicate your objection to this proposal? Then maybe some one would take you seriously.</p>